GB 131 TRANSCRIPT Grapes, Carrots, Sternbergia
29:57
SPEAKERS
George of Sac, Debbie Flower, Warren Roberts, Renee Shepherd, Farmer Fred
Farmer Fred 00:00
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.
Farmer Fred 00:20
Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.
Farmer Fred 00:32
It's grape harvest season across the country. Are you disappointed with your results? College Horticulture Professor (retired) Debbie Flower, who taught classes in growing grapes, has lots of good tips to increase your table grape production. Carrots: they now come in a wide variety of colors and sizes. We talk with Renee Shepherd of Renee's Garden Seed Company about growing backyard carrots. And Warren Roberts of the UC Davis Arboretum talks about an easy to grow bulb, the sternbergia, also known as the autumn daffodil. It's all on episode 131 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go.
George of Sac 01:21
My name is George. I live in Campus Commons, which is directly across the river from Sac State. 50 years ago, the land that I live on used to be hop fields. 14 years ago, I planted a Mission grapevine. It is fully mature and produces about 20 bunches of grapes each year. My question is twofold. After my berries are set on the vine, as new growth appears, I cut that back under the assumption that it's competition for food. Is this a waste of time? Or is this something I should continue to do? My second question is, how do you know when it's time to pick Mission grapes? Thank you.
Farmer Fred 02:03
You're welcome, George of Sacramento. Thank you for sending us that question via speakpipe.com slash gardenbasics. It's easy, and it's good audio quality. So George again, thank you for sending that Mission grapes question. Hmm. I wonder if I know anybody who knows anything about Mission grapes? If only a college professor was here... Oh, look who's here! Debbie Flower, our favorite retired college horticultural professor, who used to teach viticulture, of all things.
Debbie Flower 02:34
I did.
Farmer Fred 02:34
Yes. viticulture, of course, is the growing of vits.
Debbie Flower 02:39
Or Grapes. Grapes are in the genus Vitus. It is. So yes, that's where it comes from.
Farmer Fred 02:44
So maybe you know something about Mission grapes?
Debbie Flower 02:48
The Mission grapes are a Spanish variety. They're a white grape. And they originated, as I said, they were from Spain. And they came to the west coast of the US with the missionaries by the Fathers who set up the missions up and down the West Coast. And they were used to make sacramental wine at the missions. They didn't survive real well, because, first, there was phylloxera, which is a root louse that attacks grapes that are on their own roots. And it killed tremendous numbers of grapes and there have been several phylloxera attacks. And so many of the Mission grapes did not survive, but not all Mission grapes got phylloxera. And so there were some left. I'm aware of one in the foothills, in a vineyard, east of the Sacramento region, and the other thing, then along came prohibition. And so, wine could not be commercially made. However, wine could be made at home. The homeowner could go buy grapes and bring them home and make their own wine. And so a lot of Mission grapes did not survive Prohibition because the commercial vineyards were not active. But some of them did. So there are a few still around and they can be propagated. Grapes are very easy to make more of. And so they are still grown. There was one on the UC Davis campus that was big enough that they could put 12 to 15, eight-person tables underneath it. It was on a structure, they grew the vine up the center post and then it had a Arbor type structure over the top, big enough to cover all of these tables. So that was used for special dinners. So it's a very vigorous growing white grape, and it's been around a long time. Grape production to me just sort of happens. Yes, there are zillions of things you can do in particular to tweak it to make it a little bit different, a little bit more perfect, but grapes are not very difficult to grow. One of the characteristics of the grape vine is that it is a very vigorous, big growing plant. If it's on good soil. The vineyards that produce are reported to produce the really good wines with lots of different flavor are typically on very shallow soils, Rocky soils. If that property grew hops, the soil is probably very great. It's probably a floodplain, a very deep soil with lots of nutrition in it. And so I suspect that George's vine has grown big very quickly. And that might be part of his motivation for cutting the tips off, cutting them off, too, will not redirect the food, necessarily. Grapes have a lifecycle and the fruit reaches what's called verasion in July here in California. And that is when the fruit has gotten as big as it's going to get. It should have been thinned, the clusters should have been tipped, and well watered, especially up to that point, the grapes are as big as it's going to get. Then the ripening begins. And they're typically harvested around September. So you've got a couple of months here of ripening. Yes, vegetation is removed from the vine, but it is often just a leaf here and there. The idea is to expose the cluster to morning sun, not afternoon, and to allow air through and beneficial insects through. You can get a lot of buildup of insects. In a grapevine this very vigorous growth, you have vines on top of vines and it's lovely place for insects to hide and have their families and party or whatever insects do. And so you want to open the vines up. So that would be a reason for pruning. To allow air through, to allow sun through on the morning side. Removing, too, will not necessarily redirect growth because as soon as you take off one vine or one cane, another one will appear. Even if you just tip a cane, the axillary buds, the ones on the sides of the stem at the base of the leaves will start to grow. And now you have two tips where you used to have one. You need about, I've read, 12 to 15 I learned 16 leaves, after a cluster of grapes, for it to ripen. If you're doing any tip pruning or removing of leaves, that's something to keep in mind. I know that they grow the vines grow very fast and can get ripe if you got it set up as a vineyard with rows and such. You almost can't get down the center if you're not cutting vines off. So it is done regularly to trim the vines so you can get to the grapes. So you can harvest the grapes, you can get down the the aisles and mow the lawn or mow the weeds or whatever it is your aisles are covered with, and tend to your irrigation systems and that sort of thing. So although it isn't done to redirect food in the vine, it is done for practical purposes. So you can tend the vine, you can get air and light into the clusters, you can harvest when necessary.
Farmer Fred 07:36
I have two questions.
Debbie Flower 07:37
Yes.
Farmer Fred 07:38
Number one, this huge Mission grape arbor that was at UC Davis where they held dinners, didn't everybody have a mouthful of leafhoppers?
Debbie Flower 07:49
By the time I got to stand underneath it, it was a declining vine. And they were starting another one. I never got invited to a dinner there.
Farmer Fred 07:58
Oh, so you've never had a plateful of leafhoppers.
Debbie Flower 08:00
I never had a plate full of leafhoppers. In some culinary circles, that's a desirable thing. It's a good protein to save the Earth. Yeah.
Farmer Fred 08:08
And the question all America wants the answer to now, is regarding phylloxera. What's a louse?
Debbie Flower 08:15
Yeah, it's a type of insect I'm sure other people have other definitions of a louse. But it's a sucking insect and it gets on the roots and sucks the life out of the plant, the vine, some have lived on their own roots. It would just be a vineyard that was never infested with phylloxera. It moves with soil. It can move on equipment, you have to be very careful with hiring equipment or whatever some vineyards never got it. Some vineyards liked it at a vineyard that that had phylloxera. It was a red grape. Don't remember which one, it was in the foothills east of Sacramento. And they actually felt they got better quality out of the stressed vines. They get better quality grapes out of the stress vines than they did out of the lushly growing vines.
Farmer Fred 08:58
Winemakers are very good at making lemonade out of lemons, so to speak, because look at all the interesting new boutique wines coming out that are bragging about their smoky flavor.
Debbie Flower 09:11
Yes. I would be very interested in trying that. Yes. Now that we're having all these these fires. George did ask a second question. How do you know when to pick a Mission grape? The easiest is to go out and taste them. Watch the calendar. You're gonna need at least I would say six weeks. Middle of September to start, maybe late August, to start testing but there is a thing called a...
Farmer Fred 09:36
Fractometer.
Debbie Flower 09:37
Yes, that is used in checking sugar levels. And you buy one and you look through it. It has like a telescope, except the end is angled instead of being straight across, and has a little flap on it. So you can close the window and you open the window. You get a grape and Typically you put a bunch of them in a bag, if you're going to harvest the whole field, or the whole plant or the whole, whatever, more than just one cluster, you put a bunch of the grapes from different parts of different clusters in it, squish them up, and then you take some of that juice, just a drop, and put it on this slanted end of this fractometer. And put the lid on, and it will tell you. It will read a number and they harvest grapes anywhere from at least 21, up to as high as 27.
Farmer Fred 10:28
Brix. B-R-I-X.
Debbie Flower 10:29
Yeah, to make wine. Your choice if you're eating it just as a as a table fruit, and it's actually called a refractometer. If you're going to look one up, R e, f, r a c t o m e t e r. Right?
Farmer Fred 10:43
I was giving the short version
Debbie Flower 10:44
Yes, you were you were speaking slang.
Farmer Fred 10:46
Yes, shortly. I use it for tomatoes.
Debbie Flower 10:50
What kind of readings Do you get on tomatoes?
Farmer Fred 10:52
Usually, most tomatoes are in the seven range. But then when you put some cherry tomato on it, it jumps to 20.
Debbie Flower 11:00
Wow. Yes, the sweet ones. It only measures the sweetness. It doesn't measure the acidity. And as any fruit, a tomato or a grape ripens, it starts very acid and very low sugar. And then they work toward each other. The acidity drops during ripening and the sugar rises. So if you have a particular taste for acid as I do, you pick sooner. if you like sweetness, you pick later. So it's your choice on that, when to pick.
Farmer Fred 11:26
Before you leave here today, I want you to take home with you some Barry's Crazy Cherry tomatoes from Wild Boar Farms. I grew it for the first time this year, it's a cherry tomato. It's kind of an interesting color. it's kind of a light yellow. So you keep waiting for it to turn color to something, like a deeper yellow, or maybe even a red. But no, it stays as very pale yellow. But you can tell by feeling that, well, wait a minute, this is ready. It's kind of squishy. For a cherry tomato, it actually has tomato flavor. It's got an amazingly rich flavor. It doesn't have the sweetness of your Sweet 100s or Sweet Millions or Sun Golds or whatever. But it's just an interesting compliment, if you're presenting a tomato salad at dinnertime that's full of cherry tomatoes. And the color is a good contrast, too, so it's actually a very nice mix with red cherries and this light yellow Barry's Crazy Cherry tomato, with some mozzarella on it. I'm getting hungry. It's very good.
Debbie Flower 12:24
I would like to try it. Thank you.
Farmer Fred 12:26
Okay, it surprised me. But that has nothing to do with...
Debbie Flower 12:30
With George's Mission grapevine.
Farmer Fred 12:33
But I think the big takeaway from what you said, if I was listening correctly with half an ear, was that you need to leave 14 to 16 leaves past the bunch of grapes in order for it to ripen effectively, right?
Debbie Flower 12:48
Correct. The food that is made in the leaves beyond, toward the tip of the vine, past the fruit, it moves back. That's how food moves in plants. It moves back toward the stem that cane, the trunk of the plant, and on the way it'll get diverted into the clusters and so yes, you need 14-16 leaves in order to get enough sugar into the fruit.
Farmer Fred 13:12
So, sugars that are produced by the leaves are sent back down the pipeline?
Debbie Flower 13:14
correct
Farmer Fred 13:14
And it stops off at the fruit on its way back down?
Debbie Flower 13:19
Fruit is a very strong, it's called sink. Plants have sinks and that's where food goes. George talked about new growth. New growth is definitely a sink. Fruit is a stronger sink it go there first.
Farmer Fred 13:32
By the way folks, use that word brix next time you play Scrabble or Words with Friends. BRIX. It's worth a lot of points. Well, we learned a lot about grapes today. Thank you viticologist Debbie Flower.
Debbie Flower 13:44
You're welcome.
Farmer Fred 13:49
We're glad to have Smart Pots on board supporting the Garden Basics podcast. Smart Pots are the original, award-winning fabric planter. They're sold worldwide. Smart Pots are proudly made 100% in the USA. I'm pretty picky about who I allow to advertise on this program. My criteria, though, is pretty simple. It has to be a product I like; a product I use; a product I would buy again. And Smart Pots clicks all those boxes. They're durable. They're reusable. Smart Pots are available at independent garden centers and select Ace and True Value stores nationwide. To find a store near you visit SmartPots.com slash Fred. It's Smart Pots, the original award winning fabric planter. go to SmartPots dot com slash Fred for more info and that special Farmer Fred discount on your next Smart Pot purchase, go to SmartPots.com slash Fred.
Farmer Fred 14:48
Whether you're a beginner or an experienced gardener, or maybe you just shop at a farmers market, there is advice in this cookbook that'll get you to growing each vegetable and herb to perfection. Not only a great cookbook author, but also a great seedswoman in her own right, Renee Shepherd from Renee's Garden is here, Renee, a pleasure talking with you.
Renee Shepherd 15:09
Well, thank you very much, Fred.
Farmer Fred 15:10
Renee, you've had cookbooks on the market for over 10 years now.
George of Sac 15:15
That's right. This is my third cookbook, but it's the first one where we combine gardening advice for each vegetable, how to grow it, as well as lots of good ideas, what to do once you're harvested it.
Farmer Fred 15:26
Now if people want more information about the cookbooks, they can go to your website Renee's garden dot com. Your other cookbooks, like, "More Recipes from a Kitchen Garden" or "Recipes from the Kitchen Garden". And the fact that you're combining how to grow it with how to eat it makes sense for me, because it's been my mantra for a while now: "you grew it, now eat it". And so many people just let that food go to waste in the garden. And you know, they forget about it. They forget it's out there.
George of Sac 15:56
Well, that's true. You know, running a seed company, we have a huge trial garden where we evaluate new varieties. So I am always faced with lots of great things from the garden to eat. And it's a challenge to make good use of them. That's why this cookbook was created, because we always cook with all the different varieties. So if I'm growing like recently, we did three different varieties of purple carrots to see which ones I want to sell seeds for. Then I got to figure out what to do with all those carrots. And of course, everybody's happy to take them home. But it's still something I feel like the best part of gardening is cooking and the best part of cooking is being able to get it out of the garden.
Farmer Fred 16:36
Exactly. You mentioned carrots and in your catalog, you have a wonderful selection of carrots and not just orange carrots, there are multicolored carrots.
George of Sac 16:44
Well, that's true. I didn't realize this until five or six years ago. But in other parts of the world, people eat different colored carrots. Like purple carrots are very popular in India. And white carrots are a very old, heirloom. And yellow carrots are really beautiful. And the neat thing is that each different color has different kind of antioxidants. So it's like eating a little bit of garden nutrition, but they taste great, too.
Farmer Fred 17:09
Yeah, exactly. And, you have recipes, in your new book, "The Renee's Garden Cookbook", that are just for carrots.
George of Sac 17:16
Well, that's true. It's all organized alphabetically by vegetable. So if you've got a bunch of carrots, or you have a bunch of kale or you have a bunch of peppers, you've used the first four things, or three things that you always do with those vegetables, you want some new ideas. That's what this cookbook is for.
Farmer Fred 17:33
Well, let's get back to the basics of what's in this cookbook. And that would be how to grow carrots and it doesn't get much easier than carrots. And the great thing about carrots in our climate is you can plant the seeds just about any time of the year.
George of Sac 17:45
Well, that's true, I think the thing about carrots that gardeners need to remember is first of all, they take a little time to germinate. And need to keep them evenly watered. And the second thing is a lot of people will mix carrots seeds with radish seed to help space the carrots. And the other important thing about carrots, you really do have to thin them out. So each little one has room to grow maybe a half an inch or an inch on each side. So that's really important. And when you grow carrots from seed and they all come up, it's very pleasing. And sometimes it's hard to pull out every other one, a couple times. But it's really important. If you're going to get big, fat sweet carrots in the end.
Farmer Fred 18:24
And it helps to have loose friable soil as well, for those really long carrots. Some people here have heavy, clay soil and I always recommend to plant them in raise beds or even in large containers.
George of Sac 18:36
Well, that's true. And we actually sell a round carrot that was developed for the muck soils outside of Paris, 150-200 years ago. It's round and it gets about the size of a walnut. They're really cute too. And you can grow round carrots if you have deep soil. So that's a way around that.
Farmer Fred 18:55
The carrots, the varieties, it's up to you. It's up to your imagination as far as you want to grow. And I mentioned that you can plant them just about year round in California. Well, that's probably more true for coastal California and where you are in the hills above Santa Cruz in that area around Felton. But around here you can plant carrots from seed from August through December and March through May.
George of Sac 19:20
Pretty much the same here. We get a lot of hard frost here. And when the days are real short, you need to get the roots well-established. Depending on the winter season, they'll either get ready before the depths of winter, or they'll wait in the ground and start to put on more growth in spring. But we grow carrots, as you say, early spring, a fast winter crop and then a fall crop because they're one of the things you can leave in the ground over winter if you want and they keep in the ground.
Farmer Fred 19:50
And don't forget, too, that you can also do a succession crop where every few weeks, sow another small row of carrots, so you'll always have carrots ready.
Renee Shepherd 19:58
That's absolutely right.
Farmer Fred 20:00
Now let's talk a little bit about, if you'll indulge me for a second here, about the health benefits of carrots. There's new research out about how carrots can reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease. And it was kind of an interesting study done in the Netherlands, where intake of fruits and vegetables were categorized by color. And the researchers focused on four color categories: green, orange/yellow, red/purple, and white. And of these four categories, the orange/yellow, and in particular foods with the deeper shades of orange and yellow, were determined to be the most protective against cardiovascular disease. And they've even narrowed that down to carrots. And carrots were determined to be the single most risk-reducing food. So if you're at risk for heart disease, add more carrots to your diet.
George of Sac 20:51
And they also, besides being good for you, can taste good. And of course, carrots I think most people have heard that carrots are the best sources of beta carotene, which is really good for your skin and eyes, and hair. So yes, they have a lot of benefits. And you know, you can take care of them, clean them well, cut them in one inch pieces, toss them in a little olive oil, and then roast them for about 20 minutes till they get just nice and tender, and maybe a little carmelized on the outside and then sprinkle some of your favorite herbs like a little thyme or a little tarragon on them. That's delicious. Or you can cook them on top of the stove in a little oil and then put a little honey and lemon juice on them and make them sweet, sour. You know, there's lots of easy things to do with carrots besides just plain boiled or plain raw, although those are great.
Farmer Fred 21:41
. I see you have a recipe in there that even includes some wine with carrots.
George of Sac 21:45
Oh, absolutely. It's a good way to work with them. And I've got a bunch of I think really fast and easy recipes for carrots.
Farmer Fred 21:53
Indeed, I like the idea of the blushing carrot that basically combines it with pears, red wine and lemon thyme with a lightly spiced glaze. That sounds great.
Renee Shepherd 22:06
Well, thank you it is good.
Farmer Fred 22:08
Renee Shepherd, always a pleasure talking with you. You can find more information about Rene's cookbook and the seed catalog just go to Reneesgarden.com, that's Renee with two E's, well, three E's technically, r e n e e s g a r d e n, Renees garden.com and get the cookbook, order your seeds. It's seed ordering season folks. So go for it. There's a lot of good products in that catalog. I get my Renee's garden seeds every year, and I always have great luck with them. So Renee Shepherd, once again, thank you for spending some time with us.
Renee Shepherd 22:42
It's a pleasure and thank you very much.
Farmer Fred 22:43
You have a small yard and you think you don't have the room for fruit trees. Well, maybe you better think again. Because Dave Wilson Nursery wants to show you how to grow great tasting fruits, peaches, apples, pluots and a lot more in small areas. You could even grow them in containers on patios, as well. It's called backyard orchard culture. And you can get step by step information via the Fruit Tube videos at DaveWilson.com. And that's where you're going to find the closest nursery to you that carries Dave Wilson's quality fruit trees. So start the backyard orchard of your dreams at DaveWilson.com.
Farmer Fred 23:27
The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast has a lot of information posted at each episode: transcripts, links to any products or books mentioned during the show. Plus, you can listen to just the portions of the show that interest you, it’s been divided into easily accessible chapters. There’s other helpful links for even more information, including the new Garden Basics newsletter. And just like the podcast, it’s free. Plus you’ll find more information about how to get in touch with us. Leave an audio question without making a phone call via Speakpipe, at speak pipe dot com slash gardenbasics. it’s easy, give it a try. And you just might hear your voice on the Garden Basics podcast! You can also use your phone to call or Text us the question and pictures, 916-292-8964.916-292-8964. E-mail: fred@farmerfred.com . If you tell us where you’re from, that will help us greatly to accurately answer your garden questions. Because all gardening is local. In the show notes you’ll find links to all our social media outlets, including facebook, instagram, twitter, and youtube. Also, there’s a link to the farmerfred.com website. And if you would please, if you hear something you like, share it with your friends and family. Thank you!
Farmer Fred 24:48
Every week here are on Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, we like to talk with Warren Roberts at the UC Davis Arboretum and public garden, he is their super intendant Emeritus. Every week, He has a Plant of the Week for us. A plant that could be putting on a show where you live, a plant that does well throughout, I won't say all the United States, but a lot of the United States. And today's not only grows throughout the Sun Belt and up the Mid Atlantic coast, but also you can grow it in pots as well. Which means you could bring it indoors in the wintertime. It is... well, I'll let you say it, Warren. What is this?
Warren Roberts 25:23
This is the Sternbergia lutea, s t er n b e r g ia, lutea l U T E A. This specific epithet refers to the yellow color of the flowers. And Sternbergia is the generic name. This is a plant native to the Holy Land. It's one of the lilies of the field.
Farmer Fred 25:44
Really? Oh, wow.
Warren Roberts 25:47
And sometimes it's called yellow daffodil. Well, that's confusing. It's not a daffodil. But I think using the name Sternbergia works, it actually looks like a crocus, but it's not the shape of the flower, it is similar to that. And it's a another one of those plants that is dormant in the summer, kind of like the amaryllis, and then the leaves start to come up and then the flowers outdistance the leaves. So these beautiful yellow flowers, golden yellow flowers, are not hidden by the foliage at all. Now, this is a plant which does not like to be wet, when it's dormant, and it's dormant in the summer. So areas that are really rainy in the summer, like a lot of the East and the southeast, the best thing to do is keep that in pot and bring them out of the rain during the time that they're dormant. In the first part of August, you could bring them outdoors and let them absorb the rain and then they'll start up, the leaves will come up, the flowers will come up and they'll bloom. They also are poisonous enough that gophers and other creatures don't eat them, which is good. But it is one of those plants that if you give it no water and no care in the summer, it survives perfectly well, then gives you this beautiful bloom in the early fall and on into the fall.
Farmer Fred 27:17
And I guess this would be the time of the year to plant it then, mid-summer. So you might be looking for these bulbs at your favorite local nursery.
Warren Roberts 27:24
Yes, this would be a good time to do it. In the areas that it's native. It's native around much of the Mediterranean, it has been planted widely in that area for a long time. There's a garden on Majorca, which, for the owner of the garden, this is her favorite flower. And she found out that she didn't have to water, which was a good thing. She didn't have much water to spend. A perfectly beautiful plant.
Farmer Fred 27:48
Well, when does it usually bloom.
Warren Roberts 27:50
It usually blooms in August and September.
Farmer Fred 27:54
So it grows quickly then.
Warren Roberts 27:55
Yes, it does. And they again, it's like there are some crocus's that bloom in the fall. In fact, there's the autumn crocus, which isn't a crocus, which also blooms about the same time. So there are a number of plants that bulbous plants will give you late summer- fall bloom, which is a time when not as many things are blooming. So, Sternbergia is a good candidate for garden color in a time of the year when not as much is blooming.
Farmer Fred 27:56
Inch and a half flowers on six to nine inch stems, and it stays green through the winter, too. And then it dies back in the spring. Interesting.
Warren Roberts 28:34
It's getting ready for the Mediterranean summer in the area where it is actually evolved.
Farmer Fred 28:39
All right, the Sternbergia lutea, a member of the amaryllis family, does well throughout much of the United States. I guess for winter care, you'd want to mulch it fairly well.
Warren Roberts 28:51
Either that or keep it in pots and bring the pots indoors during the freezing season.
Farmer Fred 28:57
Alright, check it out. The Sternbergia lutea. Warren Roberts, Superintendent emeritus of the UC Davis Arboretum and public garden. More information about the UC Davis Arboretum can be found online at arboretum.uc davis.edu. lLots of other great information there, including plant lists, and a lot of advice for your garden no matter where you may live. Check out that website, arboretum.uc davis.edu. Warren Roberts thanks so much for the Plant of the Week.
Warren Roberts 29:27
You're welcome, Fred.
Farmer Fred 29:33
Garden Basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday. It's brought to you by Smart Pots. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. And that includes Apple, Iheart, Stitcher, Spotify, Overcast, Google, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, and Pocket Casts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.
.jpeg)
