GB 132 Veggie Overload? Plants Slow to Grow? TRANSCRIPT
28:07
SPEAKERS
Debbie Flower, Gary Oppenheimer, Hank in Oregon, Farmer Fred
Farmer Fred 00:00
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.
Farmer Fred 00:20
Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.
Farmer Fred 00:32
I love late August. The backyard food garden is at its peak everywhere. There's tomatoes, peppers, zucchini, peaches, melons, and so much more that's filling the garden beds. Maybe too much. We have a great idea on what to do with all that produce that you can't keep up with. Also, we hear from a gardener in Oregon who wants to know: why aren't his vegetables growing? The plants look healthy. They're just not growing. We have some ideas why, on episode 132 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go.
Hank in Oregon 01:17
Hi, Fred. This is Hank, in Eugene, Oregon, I wanted to ask a question about plants that aren't growing very quickly. I have a pretty small space. And it has been brutally hot for a lot of the summer. And what I'm encountering is a lot of different types of vegetables that just aren't doing very much. They're not diseased, but they're not growing very fast. And I'm curious if there are general rules about why that might be. And if there's a rule about when to pull the plug on plants, space that I might use to plant something else. I have that problem with artichokes, eggplants, and some peppers. They just don't seem to be doing anything special and stay about two or three inches tall. I'm curious if it's anything I'm doing or if there's something I could do differently. Thanks so much.
Farmer Fred 02:10
Hank, thanks for sending in that question via speakpipe.com slash gardenbasics. It's an easy, inexpensive, actually free, way to get your question in here without typing out an email, or calling us. Speakpipe dot com slash gardenbasics, a great way to get your questions in to our podcast. Debbie Flower, our favorite college horticultural professor is here. I have questions for Hank. I wish Hank was with us.
Debbie Flower 02:35
Yeah, I do too.
Farmer Fred 02:37
Yeah. Is it sunny? How big are the pots? Things like that?
Debbie Flower 02:41
When did he get them? The question came in July. And that's kind of late in the season to be planting the things he mentioned. And it has been brutally hot in Seattle, it's made the news because it's been brutally hot in Seattle.
Farmer Fred 02:57
He's actually in Eugene. But it's been hot there, too.
Debbie Flower 02:59
It's been brutally hot in Eugene, it's made the news that it's been brutally hot in Eugene. And that I think, is potentially the biggest problem. Plants make food. And then they use the food, they make food, they stash it somewhere inside of there cells. And then, when they need it to grow, or to make roots or to put on a flower or a fruit, things that don't see the light of day can't make their own food, they have to shuttle that food over there to make those things grow or happen. But they also use that food to do the processes of life to just stay alive. So the major processes in the plant are photosynthesis, that's the making of the food using sun, or another form of light, as well as air and some nutrients. And then they respond there. And respiration is basically using that food. And they have to respire all the time. It's kind of like breathing for a human. And they have to use food to respire. They break down food and make energy during the respiration process. And then that energy can be used to, if there's any leftover, can be used to make the buds or the fruit or the root or whatever, the new cells, they do photosynthesis only when they're exposed to light, they do respiration all the time. And the rates of both of those things go up as temperatures go up. So on a very hot day, the plants are respiring very fast to keep cool to pump water. They need energy to pump water through them. That's their air conditioning system. They're doing photosynthesis, but above 85 degrees, the photosynthesis rate declines the plants can't make more things. They are using so much energy to keep themselves cool that they can't make cells. So they're all the food they're making by photosynthesis is being used to keep themselves cool. And I fear that his plants have gotten into that situation where they can't grow because they're using all the energy they make in photosynthesis to keep themselves cool. So my suggestions to shade them, make sure they're getting enough water and mulch the soil so that any water in the soil stays there.
Farmer Fred 05:07
Yeah, we are not sure if they're in the ground or in containers.
Debbie Flower 05:10
Right, containers heat up very fast. And that would add to the problem if they are in containers. So if they're in containers, put them in a bigger container, the biggest container you can handle,
Farmer Fred 05:20
By the way, I came across this nifty little 21st century device that was fairly inexpensive, it's about 40 bucks or so. It's called a RainPoint. And I keep this gauge here on my desk in front of me, and it has numbers on it. And the top number is the soil temperature of the pot that this device is in. The bottom number is the relative humidity. And there are three words on there dry, okay, or wet. And currently the arrow is on the word, Okay.
Debbie Flower 05:51
So it says the soil temperature is 73.4 degrees, right? And the relative humidity is in the container as well. Correct? That's 44%. Yeah.
Farmer Fred 05:59
And this is an a half barrel. I have this green device out there in the half barrel where the popcorn is growing. And I've used it just as a reminder, really, for me to get out there and water the barrel. Yes. Right. But it works. But what was interesting is on a really hot day, that 73.4 degrees that it says now and right now the temperature outside is about 85 or so. But on a really hot day, it could be 100 in the air, and it's 110 inside that half barrel. Whoo.
Debbie Flower 06:29
And it's a wooden barrel. So it's well insulated. Yeah.
Farmer Fred 06:32
So imagine what a plastic barrel would be.
Debbie Flower 06:34
Yes, a half wine barrel, it's quite large around. If these seedlings that are two to three inches tall, or in a little four inch or six inch container, it's going to heat up very quickly, dry out very quickly. And the plants are just going to suffer.
Farmer Fred 06:48
That little device, by the way, you can move from container to container or even put it in a raised bed or in the soil. And as long as you have a bluetooth signal, so far, so good with it. I'm pretty impressed with it. It's amazing how technology is? Well, I think that's called Moore's law where it's half the price with twice the power or something.
Debbie Flower 07:12
Oh, yeah. Technology is definitely going that direction. Yeah.
Farmer Fred 07:15
So anyway, that's just one way to get that to show you just how darn hot it can get in a container on a hot day. Right, if that's the case. One other thing I'm wondering about are plant growth regulators. If he bought these, especially at a non-nursery, and I'm thinking like a big box store that doesn't really you know, plants are sort of an afterthought. And it's usually the lowest common denominator growers who are selling to the big box stores. The PGR is, as they're known, these plant growth regulators are a boon for the industry, because they make the plants all grow to the same height, which means that all these plants in flats, are all going to get up to the same height, which makes them a lot easier to ship
Debbie Flower 08:01
It makes them prettier.
Farmer Fred 08:05
If you even go to a nursery and you look out at a sea of annual bedding plants, and they're all the same size. Yeah, it'd be a little suspicious.
Debbie Flower 08:16
Yeah, they're even some ornamental plants that they're used on to keep them in control for their entire life.
Farmer Fred 08:21
Well, sometimes these PGR's get out of control, because it's all sprayed on these plants as they're growing. And if they accidentally apply too much, that can retard the growth of the plants.
Debbie Flower 08:34
Or if they're applying it to something nearby. I think of them as being used more in ornamentals, and it drifts with the wind over to something edible, that's a possibility. The root zone is something to look at as well, if they are in small pots and you do transplant them that would be a great time to get down to the roots, very close to the stem, the roots that were around the the base of the plant when you purchased it, are they all in a big knot? Maybe they need to be cut, maybe they're unable to take off.
Farmer Fred 09:02
And then there's fertilization.
Debbie Flower 09:03
Mm hmm. Is there any?
Farmer Fred 09:05
Yeah, is there any?
Debbie Flower 09:07
Right? They need some nutrition. They aren't going to get it just from from bagged media, unless it's already been primped with.
Farmer Fred 09:15
Usually it's such miniscule amounts. Yes, in those bags. And you gotta wonder how long is that bag been sitting there and nitrogen kind of disappears quickly.
Debbie Flower 09:24
Yes. Even time release fertilizers are if you delve into them, these are usually pelletized fertilizers that you put on top of the soil are put into the top few inches and over time they break down. They say they feed up to three months or six months, they have different ones. If you delve into the fine print, you'll find that is if the plants are kept at an even 70 degrees and in a hot summer that's the rate of release of those fertilizers is going to be much faster. And so you're going to have to reapply them more frequently.
Farmer Fred 09:56
And I guess, too, if it is in small containers, that constricted root mass would also impede growth. Yes, it will. Yeah. So there there's that too. But, we're not really sure all that's going on in Hank's garden up there in Eugene.
Debbie Flower 10:08
I wish we could ask some questions.
Farmer Fred 10:10
Yeah, keep trying. You can find cool season vegetables there, Hank.
Debbie Flower 10:14
Yes. Yes, probably soon.
Farmer Fred 10:18
Now, speaking of constricted roots, though, as you pointed out on previous shows, you've always insisted upon freeing up the roots of perennials, trees and shrubs as you plant them. Annuals, you once said, it doesn't really matter that much, since they're doing all their growth in one year, but still wouldn't be a bad idea to sort of scrape lightly on the outside of that root ball before you stick it in the ground.
Debbie Flower 10:40
Right. Any any cuts you make in the roots will result in multiple root tips growing from behind that cut. The reason annuals aren't as critical is because they never become woody. The roots on a woody plant become woody. And if they're in a circle around the base of the trunk, then you have a woody collar around the base of the trunk. And as that trunk gets fatter and fatter starts to choke on that woody root.
Farmer Fred 11:05
Plenty of possibilities. Hank, take your choice. Yeah, I hope it gets better. Debbie Flower. Thanks for your help on this.
Debbie Flower 11:11
You're welcome.
Farmer Fred 11:16
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Farmer Fred 12:40
Every day in every corner of the United States, children and adults are worrying about finding enough food to put on the dinner table, while 1000s of pounds of food are being thrown away from backyard gardens, from small farms, millions of Americans are unable to get enough fresh food to maintain proper health. The United States has a malnourished population that needs more than processed foods in order to thrive. So many incredible food banks, pantries and other hunger organizations are working tirelessly to alleviate hunger in our communities, but they consistently lack in donations of fresh produce. Luckily, you can help. By making regular donations of unused fresh produce to your local food pantry, you can be a part of the solution to increase the health of people in your neighborhood. And you can donate food that you grow or food that you buy. It's easy. The trick is finding the food pantry nearest you. And you can do that through an incredible site called ampleharvest.org. We're talking with Gary Oppenheimer, he's with ampleharvest.org. He's the founder. It's a unique, nationwide resource that is eliminating the waste of food, the outcome being a reduction in hunger and malnutrition. Along with an improved environment. There's something like 42 million Americans who grow food in home gardens, community gardens. And there are small farmers as well who could easily donate their excess harvest to one of over 8600 registered local food pantries spread across all 50 states. And Gary, I want to tell you, first of all, about my experience with your website, ampleharvest.org. There is a page there where you can go and find the food pantry nearest you. And I set a search of a 15 mile radius around my house and up popped, I'm counting, 14 food pantries I never knew existed, including one that is within walking distance. And it's amazing how easy it could be for people who have an excess of tomatoes or squash or peppers or melons or fruit, where to take it to and how convenient that is. What was your inspiration, Gary, for starting ampleharvest.org?
Gary Oppenheimer 14:58
That's a great question. Actually. There are two things or two pieces of inspiration. One was I grew up with the idea of, "don't waste food". My grandparents always told me you know, finish what's on your plate. Kids are starving. So, not wasting food was always inculcated into me. But as an adult and a master gardener, I was growing more food than I can use. And I didn't want it to go to waste. My wife said, "You can't bring any more of this stuff in the house." And I struggled to find a place to donate the food to. It turns out, I found a battered women's shelter in my town. I'm in northern New Jersey. But when I had gone on Google to find out where there are food pantries, Google said the nearest one was 25 miles away in another city. And I had an epiphany in March of 2009 and I realized, wait a minute. This is an information problem. This is not a food problem. People aren't hungry because America doesn't have enough food, we actually throw away half the produce, it never gets consumed. The problem gardeners across America have always had was misinformation and missing information. The misinformation was what we were all told that food drives that you can only donate jars or cans or boxes, but no fresh food. We gardeners took away from that you can't donate the extra tomatoes. The missing information was where is a food pantry and what's a good day of the week and time of day to donate it? When I realized that this was the information problem, I realized the solution was a web based, internet based program that would both educate gardeners about their capacity that they can indeed donate food and to where to donate it near them. And the optimum day of the week and time of day. That timing is super important because if a food pantry, for argument's sake, was distributing food to hungry families on Sunday afternoons, the ideal time for you to bring it in is Sunday morning, which means the ideal time for you to harvest was a Sunday morning or Saturday night. So the food would go from your garden, to the food pantry to a hungry family in hours. Number one, the food pantry didn't have to buy refrigeration. And number two, the hungry family was getting food fresher than you and I combined. It's not a market. It's truly garden fresh food. And the whole thing came together for me during one four hour session on my computer. And seven weeks later, with the help of two volunteers in May 2009, ample harvest dot org rolled out and it's been growing in reach and impact ever since.
Farmer Fred 17:31
We're going to be using a couple of terms here that people may get confused. I find it confusing as well. Maybe you can explain. We will be talking about food banks and food pantries. What is the difference?
Gary Oppenheimer 17:42
Oh, this is a fun question. All right. For most of America, for all of America, a food bank is a large industrial warehouse type operation, around 200 of them in America. They're part of the Feeding America Network. And in these large warehouses, real large amounts of food come in and large amounts of food are then redistributed out to the local programs where hungry families go those local programs, or hungry families go. There are around 33,500 across America, and are usually called the food pantry and in some states, the food cupboard or food shelf or food closet. The exception, as far as I know, was Oregon and Washington, where those local programs also called food banks. And you said a little bit ago that I think in Sacramento, they're also sometimes called food banks. So in the vernacular and the common language of food banks, we were hungry family gets food but in the real system, there's a distinction and the reason I had to create ample harvest org was because when the food went from a food drive to a food bank, to a food pantry it took too long. But when it went from a food drive or my garden, for that matter, to a food pantry, it could happen in 15 minutes. So this was an architectural discussion. This is great for a linguistic nerds. But if people want to use the word Food Bank, that's perfectly fine, but I'll use the word food pantry just to be more correct.
Farmer Fred 19:10
Ample harvest.org is geared to a wide range of gardeners. You've got home gardeners, new gardeners, farmers and food producers, master gardeners and school gardens. And boy, I'm thinking about food waste, and all of a sudden...wow, school gardens. I wonder what they're doing with all that excess food that they're growing in their little school, especially when it may be happening in the summertime. And there isn't anybody there to harvest it.
Gary Oppenheimer 19:36
School gardens. You're absolutely right. It's also camp Gardens by the way, but a school garden you've planted the stuff and then the kids are gone for the summer and who's harvesting. The camp had a garden and come the end of August or September, when kids go back to school, who's harvesting? So, they have the opportunity to also donate the food by the way, as do other places that don't think of themselves as gardens. You might have a golf course that has citrus fruits raining down, you might have a public park, for example. So there's lots and lots of opportunity for food to be donated from different places. The work we're doing is to enable as much wholesome, healthy, fresh, locally grown food gets to food pantries, because that not only reduces hunger across America, but it also improves the nation's health and well being. The healthier your diet, obviously, the healthier you are. I'll just give you one number which blew me away when I learned about it .Cisco Systems, the internet company, did an analysis of ample harvest org years ago. And it's online at ample harvest org slash study if you want to see it. And their analysis was, if every gardener in America knew that he or she could donate food, their surplus food; and, if every food pantry in America was on ample harvest org, was able to receive the food, the nation's health care costs would drop $58 billion a year.
Farmer Fred 21:07
I always believe that the word pharmacy should be spelled F-A-R_M-A-C-Y. Why? Because healthy, home grown fresh farm food is one of the best ways to get your health back.
Gary Oppenheimer 21:21
Absolutely. And when you think about two of the leading causes of ill health in America, our obesity and diabetes, which are both costly in terms of your own well being and costly in terms of just the medical care involved. Those are both diet-impacted diseases, you improve the diet, you reduce those diseases, you have a healthier and frankly, by extension, a wealthier nation.
Farmer Fred 21:46
One of the categories you have, that you're appealing to, is called New gardeners. But there's a subset of that, we were talking about before the interview, called the "accidental gardener" and they can also participate with ample harvest.org.
Gary Oppenheimer 22:01
Yeah, I wrote a blog article about that earlier this year, the accidental gardener and people ask, well, what's an accidental gardener? Either you're a gardener or you're not. And I had realized that if you buy a house, and the house came with a fruit tree that somebody previously planted, apples, oranges, what have you, you may not think of yourself as a gardener if you don't get your fingers dirty and garden. But the reality is that every year the tree is raining down on you all this wonderful food, the apples and the oranges or what have you. And so I describe that person as the accidental gardener. That person, too, has the opportunity to donate the food. I was named CNN Hero in April 2010. The day I was named by cnn here, I received an email from somebody in the southwest, who said that before the prior year, before he'd heard of ample harvest, that he had thrown away 855 gallon drums of citrus fruit because he didn't know he could donate it. This is a huge opportunity for the country. And realities. We haven't even started tackling that yet. So the $58 billion number was based on the gardeners who know, that garden. Not the accidental gardener. So these numbers are gonna be subject to change. And I also want to give you one other number subject change. You started this with saying that there are 42 million gardeners in America. That's pre COVID. The data we're now seeing from our partners in the industry speaks to 58 million people, and it may well be growing higher as millions more people start their own gardens. And I strongly believe that when we get past COVID-19 most of the people who started gardening are going to continue to garden. That means more people gardening, and more healthy fresh food for the hungry families on a permanent basis. One of the things really important when you grow a garden and I have my own garden, you're growing it for your own enjoyment. And for your own family, you should be enjoying that food first. The food however that you grow, that's in excess of what you can use, or preserve or share with friends, should never be going to waste. That's the food that should be donated to a local food pantry. And that's whether you're a backyard gardener or maybe you got herbs going in a kitchen window or in a community garden, it doesn't really make any difference. And by the way, also the amount of surplus is not terribly important either. Don't feel bad if you only got five tomatoes to donate, donate the five tomatoes. It'll be commingled with all the other people with five tomatoes and 500 pounds of tomatoes, at the table. The important thing is that the food is eaten by somebody and nourishes somebody in the community. It's good for the community. Frankly, it's good for the planet because food waste is a contributing factor to climate change. And it's a wonderful way of people helping their neighbors in need, by reaching into their backyards when they can't afford to reach into their back pocket. Today, we are at work as you said, in 50 states, in about 4200 communities. And today we're approaching 9000 food pantries which is about a quarter of America's food pantries, which is great. That means we have three quarters of America's food pantries yet to reach, engage in work with and work with those surrounding gardeners. So we have a lot of work ahead of us and your dollars certainly get us a long way towards succeeding on that.
Farmer Fred 25:20
If you've got excess food, you know where to go ample harvest.org will aim you to the food pantry nearest you. Gary Oppenheimer is the founder of ample harvest.org. Gary, thanks for a few minutes of your time.
Gary Oppenheimer 25:33
It's my pleasure. Thank you very much, everybody, please stay safe. And while we do one final note, in these COVID times, we have guidance on the site for the gardener, on how to be COVID safe when they're both growing the food for themselves and making the donation of food. So when you come to ample harvest org, take a moment, read the couple of bullet points on there that'll keep you the food and the food pantry staff safe, so that the good you're doing really is good, and nobody gets sick. So thank you very, very much.
Farmer Fred 26:18
The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast has a lot of information posted at each episode: transcripts, links to any products or books mentioned during the show. Plus, you can listen to just the portions of the show that interest you, it’s been divided into easily accessible chapters. There’s other helpful links for even more information, including the new Garden Basics newsletter. And just like the podcast, it’s free. Plus you’ll find more information about how to get in touch with us. Leave an audio question without making a phone call via Speakpipe, at speak pipe dot com slash gardenbasics. it’s easy, give it a try. And you just might hear your voice on the Garden Basics podcast! You can also use your phone to call or Text us the question and pictures, 916-292-8964.916-292-8964. E-mail: fred@farmerfred.com . If you tell us where you’re from, that will help us greatly to accurately answer your garden questions. Because all gardening is local. In the show notes you’ll find links to all our social media outlets, including facebook, instagram, twitter, and youtube. Also, there’s a link to the farmerfred.com website. And if you would please, if you hear something you like, share it with your friends and family. Thank you!
Farmer Fred 27:44
Garden Basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday. It's brought to you by Smart Pots. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. And that includes Apple, Iheart, Stitcher, Spotify, Overcast, Google, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, and Pocket Casts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.
