Garden Basics 138 Worm Bin Basics. Grapes. TRANSCRIPT
28:33
Farmer Fred 0:00
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.
Farmer Fred 0:20
Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.
Farmer Fred 0:32
You've heard on this podcast many times about the benefits of using worm castings, and some gardeners consider that the best soil amendment ever. Just listen to Episode 107 to find out more about that. But maybe you've seen the price of worm castings at the nursery, and you're hesitant. How about growing your own worm castings? Today we'll find out how to set up your own worm bins, to harvest the freshest worm castings possible. Plus, we find out about five grape varieties, both table grapes and wine grapes, you just might want to try growing yourself. It's all on episode 138 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots. And we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go.
Farmer Fred 1:20
We're here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, talking worms. Specifically how you can make some of the greatest fertilizer ever, worm castings, with the help of some worms. It's called vermicomposting, and we're talking to a, I won't say a professional, vermicomposter, but a very knowledgeable vermicomposter. Master Gardener, Susan Muckey, you've had this worm casting display here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center now for a number of years,
Susan Muckey 1:49
Exactly. It took a few years before we got worm composting up at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. But now it's a very popular section, a very popular project. And we always have a big crowd of people, especially children, because children like worms.
Farmer Fred 2:07
They're, they're cute. Let's get people started on some worm composting basics. And you have the starter kit here, which I like it's about a, I don't know, a 10 or 12 gallon Rubbermaid container.
Susan Muckey 2:18
Yes, it's a 10 gallon container. And the first thing that you need to know about containers is, and you can use any kind, it doesn't have to be Rubbermaid. But it just cannot be clear plastic, it has to be dark around the sides and the top, the worms do not like light, you also have to drill a whole bunch of holes in it, or along the side and along the bottom, so that there's air circulation, and also there can be proper drainage. And with the drain is you want to be sure to set the bin up on top of something, either a some two by fours or some bricks, or whatever you have, so that the the the worm tea can kind of come out through the bottom.
Farmer Fred 3:04
That's a very important point. And we'll get to that let's talk about the holes, because I imagine there are people saying, Well, if you drill holes in the side, and they look to be what, quarter inch or half inch holes, people might wonder, Well, why don't the worms escape the holes?
Susan Muckey 3:17
The drill size is quarter inch. And if you create a heaven or a garden of Eden for your worms, they will not run. They will be happy, they do not need to go anywhere. And I always put in comics in my worm composting bin so that they have something to read while they're being busy making vermicompost.
Farmer Fred 3:39
And of course, that would be comic pages, I would think, from a soy based ink newspaper.
Susan Muckey 3:41
Yes. So after you have your bin established, then you need to have some bedding and the master gardeners, my colleagues, they like either the shavings that you get at a farm store, and they're very inexpensive, you get a very big bale for maybe $8 and, and has to be either fir or pine, you don't want Redwood or cedar. Those are not good for the worms. I prefer the Sacramento Bee, a plug for the Bee, or any kind of newspaper that is soy base. And you don't want to put any shiny things in there like any of the ads. Or anything that's shiny because the worms don't like that. And another interesting thing is, when you go to the produce department and get all those little stickers, sometimes I forget to take them off when I'm throwing food into the worm bin and the worms they never touch those so I'm always picking them out later.
Farmer Fred 4:44
All right, some questions then. Now, we should reinforce the fact there is a lid to this container that has the holes in it. I don't see any holes in the lid. And I would think, too, that when you're putting this together that you have to put in a certain amount of bedding for them, and I would think that the newspapers you're putting in you're shredding those newspapers first.
Susan Muckey 5:08
Yes, I shred them. And then I put them in there and then you have to add a certain amount of water. So we fill the whole bin up with with pine shavings. And then we, in our kit, we send that home with people. But when you're making your own bin, you're going to soak the shavings or the shredded newspaper. And then you want to make sure that you don't have too much water. So that's why you need the holes at the bottom. Now, Fred noticed that we don't have any holes at the top, and we used to put holes at the top. We say, "People, if you want to put holes in the top, you can." But we were afraid at the time, we were getting rain, and we didn't want too much rain getting into the bin. But it's up to you if you want to put the holesint the top or not. But since ours is out here at the Fair Oaks horticulture center, and there might not be anybody here to to make sure the water is draining out, then that's why we did it like that.
Farmer Fred 6:09
You mentioned that the leachate from the worm castings goes to a lower level. So is there some sort of lower level in this bin? Or is it just going out the bottom?
Susan Muckey 6:20
Well, you can have several types of worm bins, there's this product called "can of worms", which has several layers, and it probably has some kind of a catching tray at the very bottom. And technically the worms are supposed to go up as they get done with one layer, they're supposed to go up and keep going up. So when you take the bottom layer, it's supposed to be just full of worm castings. However, I found that my worms did not get the memo. And they do not go up. They like it down in the bottom. And I think they like it with their friends and the kind of gooey gushy feeling of their poop.
Farmer Fred 6:59
Yeah, in that can of worms system, it is a series of four round trays, all with holes in the bottom and the worm castings, the stuff you want for your garden, goes all the way to the bottom. And in time it takes a while to. But let's go back a few steps. How many worms do you put in there to start, if you have a 10 gallon container like this?
Susan Muckey 7:19
Well, we figure 24 worms, I'm not sure where that came, that number came from. If you put in, the more you put in, the faster your bin is going to become more full of vermicompost. But I don't know, we just came on that number. I guess if you buy worms, you get 24.
Farmer Fred 7:40
Some nurseries do sell (worms), usually little packages of worms, are in Chinese takeout containers. And when you open it up, they may be hard to see, but there's usually a few in there and they're still alive. Then you do have to be careful which kind of worms you put in there. You want composting worms.
Susan Muckey 7:58
Yes, we want they're called Red Wigglers, also called manure worms. And so you don't want earthworms. Earthworms live in the soil in the dirt. And these kinds of worms are really garbage worms. They live on the top of the leaf litter and so you don't want to mix up the two if you put earthworms in your worm bin, they will revolt and they will try to get out of there as fast as they can.
Farmer Fred 8:26
I'll have links in today's show notes about commercial sources for buying the red wiggler worms that are perfect for a composting bin. Another type of worm you don't want in there and this is a problem in several states now, it's called the crazy worm or the jumping worm. And I know it's up in Oregon and some bait stores sell that and that you can tell the jumping worm or crazy worm is because they jump. They're way too active but much more so than a normal worm and they also are not very good composters.
Susan Muckey 8:58
We need to mention, too, what you feed your worms.
Farmer Fred 9:01
Yeah, you do! Yes. What do you feed the worms? I mean, you've got this nice bed of newspaper or pine shavings that they will munch on, but they like a varied diet. And I would think anything that you think you're going to put down the garbage disposal would be fine for the worms.
Susan Muckey 9:16
Actually, worms are like children. They like cantaloupe. They like watermelon. They don't particularly care for broccoli, or cauliflower or kale, the things that are really good for you. However, if there's nothing else, they will munch on that. There are things that you don't want to put in there. You don't want to put in pineapple, it's too acidic. You don't want to put in onions or garlic, they're too pungent, and you don't want to put in citrus. And the problem with citrus is the oil in the zest is harmful to the worms body. And so you want to keep that out of there. Put all those things in your regular compost pile. But they like everything else. They like apples, they like all sorts of fruits and vegetables, the ends of your cucumbers, just anything.
Farmer Fred 10:09
That's not anything. I mean, you wouldn't put meat in there, would you?
Susan Muckey 10:12
Don't put meat in there, and you don't put anything with oil, which brings up another subject. Say you're having a salad, okay, and you think, Oh good, it's all organic whatnot, but you put salad dressing on it. So you don't want the salad dressing in your worm bin. And so that (leftover) salad , you're either gonna have to wash it off, which is labor intensive. Or throw it out or put it down your garbage disposal. And you could probably put it in your regular compost, but not recommended.
Farmer Fred 10:44
We're talking to a lot of gardeners now. And I would think that out in the yard, all those portions of crops that you're tearing out or are planting and or trimming would be good food, too.
Susan Muckey 10:55
Actually I only put those kinds of things in my regular compost kind of big, so you could cut it off, you could cut on how much time you have. So I usually just put that in my compost. But yes, you could. And if you have a very large worm bin, then you could probably do things like that. But I wouldn't put like large twigs or logs in my little tiny 10 gallon bin.
Farmer Fred 11:22
What about egg shells?
Susan Muckey 11:23
Egg shells are great. One of my friends, she uses a specific (grinder) for the worms. Their own coffee grinder. And so that really grinds the eggshells up. And it also is good for the worms because when they're ingested, it helps them break down the food. They have a craw. And so it's kind of like birds, and it helps to break down the food that they're eating. And also, worms don't have teeth. In case you wondered.
Farmer Fred 11:55
Oh, yeah, I was awake last night. I couldn't figure out what the problem was.
Susan Muckey 11:59
No, they do not have teeth. And so they kind of suck all the food as your food decomposes. The worms kind of suck it in like a straw. And so the gooey slimy stuff that's in the back of your refrigerator, that you forgot about? That is the most perfect worm food. They say "Oh, thank you. Thank you."
Farmer Fred 12:19
That sounds good. Yeah. Now, where do you put the worm bin?
Susan Muckey 12:24
We like to put it in the shade under a tree. I have mine in my barn. A lot of the state offices, when people were actually working at work, have them underneath their desks. And I mean, if you have good sanitation practices, then you can have one in a building under your desk, you just want to make sure that you cover everything and don't put too much in because you might get fruit flies.
Farmer Fred 12:52
Well, speaking of that, for people who are back in offices, they may think well, gee, I'll put that worm bin in the office kitchen. And people can put stuff in there as they eat. But what about coffee grounds?
Susan Muckey 13:04
Coffee grounds are great. Worms love coffee grounds. And also tea bags, tea leaves, tea bags. And what we do with the tea bags is we take the staple off and the tag off because you don't want those things to hurt you or the worms later on, after it all decomposes. Now they have these new kinds of tea bags, they're kind of fancy, I don't use them. But they're kind of fancy. And I think they're made out of some kind of mesh, I would take that apart. If you were going to put that in your worm compost pile, because I don't think it will decompose.
Farmer Fred 13:41
What is the easiest way to harvest the worm castings from that 10 gallon bin?
Susan Muckey 13:47
There's a couple things you can do. You can push the old stuff that looks really really brown, because eventually in about six months, it will get very, very brown. You can push it over to one side, and then fill up the new side with bedding. And eventually the idea is and you only feed the side where the new bedding is. Eventually the idea is the worms will mosey on over to the side that has the food. Very slow process. For myself. I like to pull out a hunk of worm compost. And usually because I have the multi tray system and there's not a whole lot of worms down at the bottom, I just pick out the worms and put them back in to the new section. That's what I find works the best.
Farmer Fred 14:34
That is the benefit of having a commercial worm bin. That bottom bin is removable and you can open it up and put the worms, any worms you might find in there, back in the upper bins and then take that lower bin full of the wet worm castings and incorporate that into your garden.
Susan Muckey 14:52
Exactly. And when you do have the stacking system, you only feed the top tray you do not feed the other ones.
Farmer Fred 15:01
I did not know that.
Susan Muckey 15:02
Yes, Fred just gave me a look of awe, here.
Farmer Fred 15:06
Cuz I don't see any worms in my top bin. They're all in the lower bins?
Susan Muckey 15:10
Yes, I told you they like they like being down there in the bottom with their friends and the nice gooey stuff.
Farmer Fred 15:16
Oh, well, I have to rethink then
Susan Muckey 15:19
Yes, that's the only thing about the can of worms is that if you have a lot of produce, they're kind of small. Do you have the Can? You do it kind of small and so you would probably not use up all your your produce in those tiny bins because like I said, they're kind of small. Now what I used to do is, before I had some bigger worm bins, as I used to bag up my produce, and then to be sure to label it. Because one time I took it out because I thought it was going to be dinner. And it wasn't Yes, it was my scrap. Well do label it.
Farmer Fred 16:01
That's a good idea.
Susan Muckey 16:02
Also, another reason to put it in the freezer too is if there's any bugs or something it they might freeze and then you wouldn't have them in your wormed in.
Farmer Fred 16:13
One tip you gave and I think we should reinforce it: is it should be raised off the ground for a number of reasons. No matter what system you have. Now I noticed with the Can O' Worms, when I had it in the backyard underneath the tree. All of a sudden, these ants started climbing up the legs and getting into the bin. And I figured Okay, now how do I keep those ants out? There were four legs, I got four large coffee cans, and put the legs in those and then filled those coffee cans with a combination of water and a surfactant, like soap or oil. So the ants can't swim very well. So it did deter them from getting into the worm bin.
Susan Muckey 16:53
One thing, if you have ants in your worm bin, you need to check to see if the worm bin is moist enough. Because usually in like our regular compost classes, we say, if you've got ants in your compost pile, it's not wet enough. And I'm thinking that maybe Fred you weren't wet enough.
Farmer Fred 17:09
It's fine. Now it's fine now.
Susan Muckey 17:10
Okay. Yeah, cuz you should be able to squeeze the worm bedding without the worms in it and get maybe a drop or two of water that's going to come out.
Farmer Fred 17:22
What is the temperature range for a worm bin, the ideal to make them happiest?
Susan Muckey 17:27
They are happiest, like us, between 40 and 80 degrees. They really don't like 110 - 114, whatever. My worm bin is in my barn. And so it never gets the real extreme. But don't ever put your worm bin out in the sun. It's best to have it in a shady area. And just kind of monitor it. One of our colleagues, also, when it gets really, really cold, she takes her worm bins inside.
Farmer Fred 17:57
I can see that now one of the problems with the can of worms is there's a faucet on there that allows the leachate to drain out. So if you're going to bring that in the house, I would put a big cat box under it or something to catch the liquid.
Susan Muckey 18:10
Right, right. Right. And doesn't that have like a spigot so you could keep it turned off?
Farmer Fred 18:14
Yeah, you could, but I want it to drain. Yeah.
Susan Muckey 18:19
Now as far as the leachate goes, it's supposed to be really good. But as UC Master Gardeners, we can't recommend using it on your vegetables that you're going to eat, because it hasn't been properly tested by UC, and so we can't really recommend that. But you probably could just put it around your landscaping plants.
Farmer Fred 18:45
All right. A lot of basic worm composting tips there. We'll have more links in today's show notes where you can learn a lot more. And if you are in the Sacramento area, come out to the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center sometime when they're having open garden days or workshops and take a look at all the worm bins that they have here. Master Gardener Susan Muckey. Thanks for telling us about worms.
Susan Muckey
You're welcome.
Farmer Fred 19:12
You've heard me talk about Smart Pots, the award winning fabric planter here on the Garden Basics podcast. They're durable and reusable. I've been using mine for five years now. And once again, they're being pressed into service in my yard. Yeah, I have this problem. I grow too many tomatoes for the amount of allotted sunny space I have for them. So those extra tomato plants go into the Smart Pots. I place them in scattered areas around the yard where I know they'll get enough sun, which is a premium in my yard. And even five years later, I can pick up those Smart Pots, plant and all, and move them around without fear of the Smart Pot tearing or ripping. Smart Pots are made of breathable fabric, which creates a healthy root structure for plants. And, Smart Pots come in a wide variety of sizes and colors. Visit smartpots.com/Fred for more information about the complete line of Smart Pots, the lightweight fabric containers. And don't forget that "slash Fred" part. Because on that page are details of discounts when you buy Smart Pots on Amazon. Okay, now I understand maybe you want to see the Smart Pots before you buy them. That's not a problem. Smart Pots are available at independent garden centers and select Ace and True Value stores nationwide. To find a store near you, visit smartpots.com slash Fred.
Farmer Fred 20:37
We're at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center. It's a work day here. And if you've never been to the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center in Sacramento County, and you like grapes, you should come by here because one of the features here at the Hort Center is the vineyard, and they have table grapes. They have wine grapes, many of which are adaptable throughout the country, varieties that you may have heard of. And they have some very interesting trellising techniques here, pruning techniques, care techniques. I'll have a link on today's show notes about the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center and everything that's out here. We're talking with Catherine Barkett, Sacramento County Master Gardener. And we are here in the vineyard, and the vineyard is always changing. You're like a gardener, because you want to try new stuff. So you brought in some grape varieties that I see are pretty popular throughout much of the rest of the country. So what are you going to be trying that's new?
Catherine Barkett 21:28
Hi, Fred, good to talk to you. Well, we have a new focus in the Hort Center vineyard on sustainable farming. And we have put in some brand new cultivars new for us. One is actually over 100 years old, so it's not a new cultivar. But for us, they're new. And we have really focused on disease resistant varieties.
Farmer Fred 21:51
That's very important. And being in California, I would think, drought tolerant. But drought tolerance and grapes is kind of an interesting subject, especially when you consider all the dry farming wine grape acreage there is now in California.
Catherine Barkett 22:07
You can do dry farming, and particularly for wine grapes. But table grapes, grapes typically need quite a bit of water. And so you can reduce watering down to about 80% of optimal and get away with it. But you still need water and you still need to watch out for pests. But the average homeowner, of course does not want to be out there spraying all the time and they're always looking for fruit varieties that are resistant.
Farmer Fred 22:40
And wine grape growers throughout the country be it table grapes or grapes for wine, are always curious what other people are growing. So what are these varieties that you're going to be trying now?
Catherine Barkett 22:49
Well, we have several of them. We have one called Mars. And actually it's one of four that are from the University of Arkansas breeding program. It's a reddish blue seedless grape with what they call a foxy flavor.
Farmer Fred 23:06
Yeah, what does that mean?
Catherine Barkett 23:08
I don't know why they call it a Foxy flavor, but it's the flavor you get when you eat a Concord grape. It's that kind of really rich, kind of almost musky.
Farmer Fred 23:19
But in this case without the seed.
Catherine Barkett 23:21
Without the seeds. The berries are medium sized on that one and you hardly ever get fruit cracking which was is nice and it's very vigorous. And it's the most disease resistant cultivar from the University of Arkansas. Then we have Reliance, which is a red seedless cultivar. It's cold hardy, so if you're up a little farther into the foothills (USDA 7), you have to worry about a little frost, then this would be a good one. The berries have a thin skin and they're medium in size with large medium to large clusters. And it's moderate in terms of growth and productivity.
Farmer Fred 23:55
I would think with a thin skin then as they build up water and sugar there might be some cracking
Catherine Barkett 24:01
Yes that it's more susceptible to cracking then say, the Mars is.
Farmer Fred 24:05
Again, that's the Reliance.
Catherine Barkett 24:07
Right. The Reliance. And then, Hope. Hope is a white or green and green light green seedless grape with a fruity flavor. And it has very high yields. It has a thick skin. So there again, you're gonna get less cracking, medium size berries that are sweet and soft. Some people like a crunchy grapes and people like a soft grape, this is a softer one. clusters can be a little tight. So you have to watch for that sometimes, do a little thinning on those clusters.
Farmer Fred 24:35
And by "tight" you mean that the bunch itself is crammed with grapes or the bunches are too close together?
Catherine Barkett 24:41
The bunch itself is crammed with grapes.
Farmer Fred 24:44
So one strategy on that early in the season is take the tail off the bunch. Is that still applicable?
Catherine Barkett 24:53
Not for a cluster with a really tight bunch because actually it gets even tighter. So you'd want to do the opposite, not take the tail off. And when it's small but the fruit has set, you can take take your clippers or snippers and clip some of those berries off, if you want. Then we have Mission. Mission is the earliest Vinifera variety to be cultivated in the Americas.
Farmer Fred 25:18
Who knew that?
Catherine Barkett 25:19
Yes. And its DNA goes back to Central Spain. It was actually used by the Catholic Church as a sacramental wine. And people make fortified wines from this grape, as well. It's a good eating grape.
Farmer Fred 25:34
The Mission. Yeah, I'm not surprised, with a name like that, I bet, Father Serra was probably distributing those up and down the California coast.
Catherine Barkett 25:43
I bet he was. And finally, our other new one is Crystal, which may also be Niagara. Niagara is a very old cultivar. It's said to be over 100 years old and it started out in New Castle down at the Fowler Nursery, if you're familiar with that. And that started in 1912. And they had grapes then. So that is an excellent tasting medium sized green grape with seeds.
Farmer Fred 26:13
And this is a table grape.
Catherine Barkett 26:14
A table grape with seeds for these table grapes. Well, these are pretty much all table grapes except the Mission which of course was used for sacramental wines. And we do have up here, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Merlot, which are wine grapes. And we also have a lot of table grapes that are used in wine like the Thompson seedless. That's a very common filler.
Farmer Fred 26:16
Alright. So new grape varieties here at the Fair Oaks Horticulture Center, you might want to look around for it if you're going to be doing some planting, no matter where you live. These varieties might be adaptable to wherever you are: the Mars, the Reliance, the Hope, the Mission and the Crystal. We're talking with Catherine Barkett, Sacramento County Master Gardener. Thanks for the great grape information.
Catherine Barkett 27:02
Thanks, Fred, good to talk to you.
Farmer Fred 27:06
Because there are so many demands on your time these days, I like to keep the Garden Basics podcast to under 30 minutes. Still, there is a lot more to tackle on all the garden subjects we bring up on the podcast. So, for that, and a lot more, we’re starting up The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter, on Substack. As the newsletter grows, so will the subject matter. So, yes, it will be a good supplement for the Garden Basics podcast, but there will be a lot more garden related material and probably pictures of my dogs and cats, as well. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter on Substack. And best of all, it’s free! There’s a link in today’s show notes. Or, just go to substack.com, and do a search for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred. That’s substack.com. The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter. Did I tell you it’s free? It’s free.
Farmer Fred 28:09
Garden Basics comes out every Tuesday and Friday. It's brought to you by Smart Pots. Garden Basics is available wherever podcasts are handed out. And that includes Apple, Iheart, Stitcher, Spotify, Overcast, Google, Podcast Addict, Cast Box, and Pocket Casts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.
