GB 141 Nutgrass. Michaelmas Daisy TRANSCRIPT
25:09
SPEAKERS
Debbie Flower, Warren Roberts, Jerry in Sac, Farmer Fred
Farmer Fred 00:00
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.
Farmer Fred 00:20
Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.
Farmer Fred 00:31
Pull out one nutsedge weed from your lawn or garden, and nine more will come to its funeral. Nutsedge, also called nutgrass, is tough to control. And one of the worst things you can do is to pull this weed out of the ground. Our favorite retired college horticulture Professor, Debbie Flower, has some better ideas on how to control this widespread weed. UC Davis Arboretum Superintendent Emeritus Warren Roberts tells us about a very popular fall blooming plant of the week. The Michaelmas daisy. It's on episode 141 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery, and we'll do it all in under 30 minutes. Let's go.
Jerry in Sac 01:19
Good morning, Farmer Fred. This is Jerry, here in Sacramento. Longtime listener, big fan of yours. How do I get rid of sage grass? It's so invasive in my garden beds. And it moved on to my garden area, my grass area.
Farmer Fred 01:39
Well, Jerry, thank you so much for contacting us via speakpipe.com. It's really easy. It's good audio quality. It's free. If you want to leave a question for us. Just go to speakpipe.com/gardenbasics and get your question in just like Jerry in Sacramento did. Debbie Flower, who is here, Jerry thinks he has Sage grass. When I think of sage grass, I think of a Midwestern native plant. I don't think that's what he's talking about.
Debbie Flower 02:09
Right. I agree. It probably isn't what he's talking about. Not likely to be an invasive plant in Sacramento area.
Farmer Fred 02:16
Correct. And so I contacted Jerry to inquire about other possibilities that it might be and he said, Yes, you're right. I meant nutsedge.
Debbie Flower 02:27
That's it, yes. Nutsedge is a big problem in this area. Nutsedges look like grass. But when they flower, their flower parts are on a stem that is triangular. One way to remember it is: sedges have edges.
Farmer Fred 02:44
Oh, that's good.
Debbie Flower 02:45
As you roll the flower stuck in your fingers, then you can feel those edges. The blades are like a wide grass blade, but they're stiffer and they are waxy. And that makes them quite difficult to get rid of, from above, because that wax sheds all kinds of things. Then below ground, at the ends of their roots, they create storage organs called nutlets. And they put food in those nutlets. And they can germinate from those nutlets. And Pam Bone told me a joke once that said, yes, you pull one nutsedge and nine come to the funeral. Because you don't get the nutlets when you pull the plant out of the ground. You don't get the nutlets, and then they germinate.
Farmer Fred 03:25
Pam Bone, by the way, is a master gardener who has been on this program, and I like that little saying of hers because it's very true.
Debbie Flower 03:32
It is very true. It is very true. I've had nutgrass proliferating in a yard of mine, here in the Sacramento region, and spent an entire summer sitting on a five gallon pot turned over. So I sat on the bottom and I made myself a sifter, just from some very fine fencing and a wood frame and stapled it to the wood frame and I spent days digging down a shovel full a little bit more to it about 10 inches down and just going through the whole front yard digging the soil up, and sifting out the nutlets and throwing them out. That's one way to get rid of it.
Farmer Fred 04:10
Yeah. I could see you doing that. But Jerry, the one thing you don't want to do, don't yank it out of the ground, right? If anything, take a shovel, go out a couple of inches three inches or so dig down as far as your shovel head can go and bring up that entire mound of dirt. So I guess a good idea might be to moisten the ground before you do that. Yeah, that way the soil will stay together, and then bring up that clump that will contain the nutsedge plant. Nutsedge, nutgrass. Same thing, right?
Debbie Flower 04:45
Some people would disagree, but common names are common names. So I say they are interchangeable. Right
Farmer Fred 04:49
And then I'd throw out the whole plant.
Debbie Flower 04:53
Oh yes. Don't put it in your compost pile. You got to get rid of it. As I said, I did that for a whole summer here. In front yard, it is I'd go out for a period of time every day. And I had it in the backyard as well. And what I did in the backyard was solarize. And that worked very well. I was surprised how well it worked. Because those nutlets I didn't know how deep those nutlets were going, I was going to a shovel full deep, and I have a reference from Clemson University that says 10 inches to get all of the nutlets that's going to vary by your soil, your location, you know, 10 inches is not set in stone. But I was and I'm not aware of solarization working 10 inches down unless you're in maybe pure sand. So, but I did try solarization which is a process of basically heating up the soil. So I tilled the soil. Now I didn't use a commercial tiller, I probably used a shovel and turned it over and broke up the clods and moistened it, it has to be moist, and then got clear plastic and laid it over this area, buried the edges, the whole edges have to be buried in solarization and left it in the hottest part of the year for six weeks minimum. And that heats up the soil above 140 degrees, which kills everything there. Don't worry about the worms and the good fungus and bacteria, they will migrate out as this process happens. But the seeds can't do that, they can't move and the nttlets can't move. And so they will be killed. And that worked very well. So those are our two techniques. If you're starting to see that it's the nutsedge or nutgrass has come into your landscape, pull it out immediately. I have that problem now in my vegetable garden, which has you know, recently disturbed soil and it gets water and it gets nutrition and I'll see baby nutlets. A reference I read says if you get them before they have five leaves, then they haven't formed any nutlets yet. I am not always successful at getting them that early. But I am persistent. And I'm getting all the plants out when they're babies and nothing is getting old. And nothing is setting seed. That's another thing to consider whenever you're trying to control a weed patch. Get it out before it sets seed, just maybe you're just gonna cut the tops off. But don't let it set seed, because then you could have hundreds from one plant. So get it when it's early before it has five leaves, cut it off or get those seed heads up before they mature and spread seed around. You can sift the nutlets out of the soil, you can solarize... or Fred?
Farmer Fred 07:27
What I was gonna say, if you want more information about soil solarization check out Episode 24 of Garden Basics where we go into greater detail about soil solarization, which obviously is done when solar is best. And that would be the summertime.
Debbie Flower 07:41
Yes, yes. So that is a seasonal event. There is one herbicide that can be used. I don't know that any herbicide says it will kill; control is always the operative word. Control is the operative word and control does not mean kill. But Monterey Chemical Company creates a herbicide for homeowner use. And this one is called Sedgehammer, without the L. Fred's got the label up here.
Farmer Fred 08:14
And it's for control of nutsedge, which in garden talk means we'll duke it out, but it'll probably be a draw.
Debbie Flower 08:22
So you got to be persistent. You can't just go out one time, hit it with the Sedgehammer, go away, and say oh, I took care of my weeds. Some will die, some won't. Depends how many nutlets because the nutlets aren't just a way to reproduce, they're also a source of food. So if you've killed the top and the top is unable to make food for the plant, then the nutlets, the food from the nutlets will be mobilized and brought into the plant and allow the plant potentially to regrow. So you have to be persistent, you have to go out again, maybe in two weeks later, let's say and check those spots. And I would spot spray I always spot spray if I ever use an herbicide. I don't want it to go places I don't want it to be. But go out and check those plants and see if they're truly gone.
Farmer Fred 09:03
Some interesting warnings about using Sedgehammer. It says this product may be used on established seeded, sodded, or sprigged turf grass. Allow the turf to develop a good root system and uniform stand before application. So you wouldn't want to do it if it's a fairly new lawn right? Treated areas maybe overseeded with annual or perennial ryegrass or Bermuda grass two weeks after application. So that would imply that its residual effect is not much.
Debbie Flower 09:34
Right, so there's not much left in the soil if those seeds can germinate.
Farmer Fred 09:37
And I think this one is true in a lot of situations: avoid application of Sedgehammer when turf grass or nutsedge is under stress. Since turf injury and poor nutsedge control may result. Yeah, putting chemicals on a lawn that's already suffering from drought or whatever problem, it just adds to the stress.
Debbie Flower 10:00
Right, when applying herbicides to a weed, you want as much of the weed present as possible, and you want that weed as healthy as possible, then it will, because you have lots of the weed there, you have more surface area to absorb the herbicide. And because it's healthy, it has more ability to absorb the herbicide. It's a temptation to go out and weed as much of it out as you can and then come through with the herbicide but then you're wasting chemicals. And we don't want to do that. So you want to have the weed well watered, as big as possible, and then go out and zap it with the herbicide.
Farmer Fred 10:37
As we are very fond of saying on this program read and follow all label directions. because there's a lot of warnings when using a product like Sedgehammer including don't spray over your desirable flowers and vegetables and ornamentals. Because it'll harm those. But there are a lot of weeds that are controlled by Sedgehammer. It isn't just yellow nutsedge and purple nutsedge if you have problems with Morning Glory purslane, ragweed, shepherd's purse.
Debbie Flower 11:04
I see pokeweed there and my neighbor is not controlling it, so it's showing up in my yard.
Farmer Fred 11:11
It's not coming up in the turf though.
Debbie Flower 11:13
No, no, no,
Farmer Fred 11:14
That would be weird. We could do a whole show on pokeweed.
Debbie Flower 11:18
It's one that people ask about a lot, because it has such colorful berries and those berries are poisonous.
Farmer Fred 11:24
Yes, the berries are poisonous.
Debbie Flower 11:26
To us. Birds will eat them. Yeah, poop a mountain. That's how they end up in other people's yard.
Farmer Fred 11:30
Apparently, if you grew up in the south, they are okay. Because you may have grown up eating Poke salad.
Debbie Flower 11:36
That's the leaves, I believe.
Farmer Fred 11:37
That's the leaves, right? But they need to be processed several times before they become edible. I would just avoid the plant. I would. It's a gorgeous plant. It is very pretty. Yeah. It's got these reddish stems and those panicles of the purple berries in late summer and fall are just gorgeous. And it's probably here in the Sacramento area too. And people think oh, it's a beautiful plant.
Debbie Flower 12:00
Right? Pretty Yeah. Universal across the country.
Farmer Fred 12:04
You know what else is a pretty plant? Castor bean.
Debbie Flower 12:07
Yes, it is. Yeah, it's gorgeous.
Farmer Fred 12:08
But it's it's poisonous. very poisonous. Yeah. Always wanted a castor bean plant.
Debbie Flower 12:13
I have a friend who has one on the container on his patio. Yeah. All right. But it's just again, it's beautiful.
Farmer Fred 12:19
Yeah, exactly. Beautiful. But deadly. Dun dun dun.
Debbie Flower 12:24
He gave me seeds and I labeled them Ricinus, which is the genus, and then I thought, wow, I have to go through TSA. I wonder if they're gonna look and think I'm gonna poison people on the plane with my ricinus and it's a poison. And that's where it comes from?
Farmer Fred 12:40
Yeah. Did you make it?
Debbie Flower 12:42
Yes. Nobody checked my seeds.
Farmer Fred 12:44
Okay. Oh, look, the phone's ringing. It's California Department of Food and Ag want to talk to you. Yeah, so anyway, read and follow all label directions. And when controlling any sort of weed, and I think what you did is probably the most effective and that's to dig it out. dig it out. Right? You get out and definitely like you said, Get to it before it flowers.
Debbie Flower 13:10
Yes. People who don't know what it is think it's pretty or some do.
Farmer Fred 13:13
Yeah, it looks kind of like a green umbrella or a palm tree, if you will, that's you know, little six inches, eight inches tall with this flower head in the middle that sort of a yellowish flower head. But that nutsedge is very noticeable in a turf situation because it's usually a different shade of green then you're lawn, and shiny. And it's that shiny part that makes it impermeable to a lot of other herbicides, right?
Debbie Flower 13:40
Something has to break through that waxy coat. Yeah.
Farmer Fred 13:43
Jerry, get a shovel, a big shovel.
Debbie Flower 13:45
Or hire somebody you know, get some kid who's willing to, who's detail oriented, and willing to sit in your yard ad nauseum.
Farmer Fred 13:54
Or start a horticultural College in your backyard, charge tuition, and have them come over and dig it out and identify it. Yes. All right, Jerry, thanks for the question about nutsedge. Good luck to all of us with that one. Thank you, Debbie.
Debbie Flower 14:09
You're welcome, Fred.
Farmer Fred 14:15
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Farmer Fred 15:16
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Farmer Fred 16:07
Every week we like to talk with Warren Roberts out at the UC Davis Arboretum and Public Garden. He always has an interesting Plant of the Week for us. A plant that probably can do very well where you live. And today's plant is a plant that does well throughout most of the United States. In fact, it's a native to the eastern United States. And it even is named after a Saint. And Warren Roberts, what would that plant be?
Warren Roberts 16:33
Well, we call it Michaelmas Daisy, and the feast of St. Michael Archangel is on September 29, and that's the time when this Daisy or group of daisies are blooming, because of that, that name was applied: Michaelmas daisies. You can look this up in texts that talk about the saints, but sometimes this feast of Saint Michael includes the other archangels as well. So it's a big day on the calendar of the Catholic Church. Michaelmas daisies. There are two main species involved. And their from the eastern US. They have for a long time been called Aster, and Aster Novi-belgii. Belgii is a name given to what's now New York, when it was part of the Dutch Empire. And a New Belgium was one of the names for it. New Amsterdam was the city of New York what's now New York City. So, that's a little bit of historic background and these daisies were noted at that time. There's another one fairly close related called Aster novae-angliae, the New England Aster. And in my lifetime, both of these species and their hybrids have been called Michaelmas Daisy. So this is a plant that I've known since I was a little tiny kid. My grandmother had a desert garden in Bakersfield, California, and it's a tough plant. It's easy, I mean it's easy to grow, not tough to grow, it's just very hardy. It needs some water in summer because it comes from an area that gets some rain but it doesn't need a lot. Regarding range and color: the main color would be violet blue to purple, and often to pink, but also white, very pale purpley pink too. So those are the colors and not a true blue really, there's just too much violet in there for it to be called a blue, but it has a blue appearance. It blooms for a long time. And many of the varieties are easy to grow and long blooming. So they start blooming about this time of year, that is to say around the feast of St.Michael and then continue on beyond until frost. There are some other species though. Aster amullis, the European Michaelmas daisy, is also grown some and there's another species of Aster called Aster hybrid frikartii Monch. These all look very much alike. And these are not to be confused with what we call Aster, the which is Callistephus chinensis (China aster). They're related to the Michaelmas daisies, but they look quite different and have a different horticulture. To make this even more complicated, most botanist are now recognizing the Michaelmas daisies as members of another genus called Synphyotrichum. So you'll start seeing that name as the generic name for the Michaelmas daisies as time marches on. But asters, if you look things up. Aster is probably the best name to use for now.
Farmer Fred 20:11
I would think the one saving grace of all those plants that are called Aster is they're all members of the Asteraceae family.
Warren Roberts 20:18
That's right. and that they're the ones that give the family its name, the Aster family, or Daisy family. Most of these Michaelmas daisies are easy to propagate by division. So when the flowering is over, and the frost comes, the plant dies down before it starts growing in in the spring. You can dig them up and divide them into clumps, maybe a couple of inches across or an inch across or less. But there should be some stem and some root on these divisions and plant them where you want them. And then look forward to flowers towards the end of September, and on into October.
Farmer Fred 20:56
Much like St. Michael the Archangel is usually pictured as very tall and upright, the Michaelmas Daisy is no shrinking violet, it gets what four feet tall?
Warren Roberts 21:07
Some of them get four feet tall. And that's a good thing to point out. Michaelmas daisies, are pretty much straight up and down. They're not like penstemons, which flop all over the place, they pretty much stay upright. And there are some more forms that only get about six to seven inches high. And those were bred for kind of ground covers, but particularly for the cemeteries for World War One and World War Two in Europe. And the fact that the plant is a North American native figured into that as well. So there were a lot of Michaelmas daisies cultivars that are really rather small, and kind of in that way, easier to use, in the garden.
Farmer Fred 21:50
Does it have an invasive root system?
Warren Roberts 21:53
Not really. I take that back. We have one native to California, which is also native to Chile, which is Synphiotrychum chiloensis. I think it's called. And it can move around in the garden a little bit. But it's mainly used by people who want just California natives in their garden. And it's not that widely available outside of the West Coast. That one's a little bit weedy but the others are not, not that I know of. My experience is that they're not that weedy. Though it could be that in areas that get summer rain, that they might be a little bit more aggressively growing. So that's a question, I don't know. I really don't know the answer to, for sure.
Farmer Fred 22:01
Sounds like this plant may need a stake.
Warren Roberts 22:30
They need a stake. Well, the taller ones might, but they have a fairly robust stem.
Farmer Fred 22:47
It's the Michaelmas Daisy. It is in the Asteraceae family. Beyond that, I can't tell you much, except it's named after an archangel. Michaelmas Daisy. And it sounds like it would be a winner for gardens throughout the country. Warren?
Warren Roberts 23:02
I think so. Yes, I've seen it. I've seen it grown in Alaska, too,
Farmer Fred 23:08
Alright. It's the Michaelmas Daisy, look for it near you. For more information about the UC Davis Arboretum, visit their website arboretum.uc davis.edu. They have October plant sales coming up so you can check their website for more information about that if you're here in Northern California. And if you just want a list of good plants, visit their Arboretum All-Star list that they have online, they're at arboretum.uc davis.edu. The Plant of the Week, the Michaelmas Daisy, Warren Roberts, thank you so much for that.
Warren Roberts 23:40
Thank you, Fred. My pleasure.
Farmer Fred 23:42
Because there are so many demands on your time these days, I like to keep the Garden Basics podcast to under 30 minutes. Still, there is a lot more to tackle on all the garden subjects we bring up on the podcast. So, for that, and a lot more, we’re starting up The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter, on Substack. It’ll go into more details about what you just heard on the latest podcast. For instance, the Aug. 31st newsletter has more Japanese beetle control information. And for those of you here in California and other parts of the West who think you are seeing Japanese beetles, well, it’s probably a much bigger relative, the green fruit beetle. Information about that pest, is in the newsletter. Also, we will also have a picture of the Plant of the Week, the Oxblood lily. And just for the heck of it, a lot of maps, explaining USDA gardening zones, as well as a more complete reference for figuring out what can grow in your region, the Sunset national Garden Zones. As the newsletter grows, so will the subject matter. So, yes, it will be a good supplement for the Garden Basics podcast, but there will be a lot more garden related material and probably pictures of my dogs and cats, as well. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter on Substack. And best of all, it’s free! There’s a link in today’s show notes. Or, just go to substack.com, and do a search for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred. That’s substack.com. The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter. Did I tell you it’s free? It’s free.
Farmer Fred 24:46
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