GB 154 Why Lawns? Puncture Vine. Liquidambar Tree
33:08
SPEAKERS
Debbie Flower, Thomas Mickey, Warren Roberts, Farmer Fred
Farmer Fred 00:00
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred. Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.
Farmer Fred 00:32
One gardening trend that is beginning to take hold throughout the country is reducing the size of your existing lawn. What is our attraction to lawns in the first place? We talk with author Thomas Mickey, he wrote the book, "America's Romance with the English Garden." So, that might just be the first clue to the answer of our question. Retired college horticulture Professor Debbie Flower discusses a nasty weed, especially disliked by barefoot children and mountain bikers: puncture vine, and the University of California Davis Arboretum and Public Garden Superintendent Emeritus Warren Roberts tells us about an outstanding, widely planted tree for fall color, the sweet gum, also known as the liquidamber tree. But it certainly has its drawbacks. And I will gladly be the devil's advocate on this one. It's our Plant of the Week! Podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful abutilon jungle in Suburban Purgatory, it's episode 154 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you Today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery. And we'll do it all in just a little over 30 minutes. Let's go.
Farmer Fred 01:45
Why do we have to have a lawn? What what is it about our DNA or whatever that makes us want to have a lawn? It just so happens there is a book written on that very subject. The book is called "America's Romance with the English Garden". The author is Thomas Mickey. Thomas Mickey, a pleasure talking with you.
Thomas Mickey 02:05
Good morning, Fred.
Farmer Fred 02:06
Good morning, let's talk about the basis of your book. And I think I can sum it up pretty succinctly. It is that we are swayed by advertising.
Thomas Mickey 02:15
We certainly are. In the advertising that was operating in the 19th century, when gardens were taking off in this country, especially in the suburbs, was very powerful because it gave illustrations of what kind of garden you needed to have. And that illustration became the advertising and that illustration included, of course, the front lawn, which we inherited from the English Romantic garden style.
Farmer Fred 02:40
I love the references in the book too, about the advertising in the 19th century. And basically, that was almost one of the few areas of entertainment for people. It was getting garden catalogs in the mail for these new homeowners in the 19th century. And the catalogs really stressed that you can make your life so much better if you just had this plant or that one.
Thomas Mickey 03:05
Right. It was a very clever kind of marketing. And of course, people didn't have much illustration, much marketing of any sort. That kind of marketing coming in the catalog was really a powerful sway to buy certain plants and certain seeds.
Farmer Fred 03:22
And it was really empowering in many ways, too, because those advertisers were very aware of the growing a women's movement. And so they had a lot of pictures of women with lawn mowers.
Thomas Mickey 03:34
Exactly, exactly. And the catalogs were written for women. Women were the major audience for the catalog. But whenever they showed a woman in the catalog, this is kind of an interesting thing, because I looked at many catalogs. The woman was always just in her Sunday-best, an upper middle class kind of figure who was simply cutting flowers in the garden, really, never working in the garden. It's almost as if you could have a garden with no work. It was kind of funny that way.
Farmer Fred 04:01
Or Martha Stewart.
Thomas Mickey 04:03
Martha Stewart. the same thing. She has an enormous spread of gardens down on her property, but she has lots of gardeners working for her, of course.
Farmer Fred 04:10
It must be nice.
Thomas Mickey 04:12
Exactly, exactly. And that's really how the Old English gardens, where they had these teams of gardeners who would take care of these enormous lawns. So when that idea came into the United States in the 19th century, the idea of having lawns that way before the Civil War. The lawns were first established on these big estates outside large cities, especially on the East Coast. And then eventually, when people move to the suburbs, the lawn became important for them and of course, they had to take care of it.
Farmer Fred 04:41
Now, what was the reasoning for that lawn? I have a funny feeling that this had more to do with our own history and the way the rich people lived back in the old country.
Thomas Mickey 04:51
Exactly, exactly. So the lawn became a kind of a status symbol. People who had lawns were of upper class status. And so if you had a lawn, it kind of connected you to them in a certain way. So when real estate agents would try to sell a property in the suburbs, they would always say, now you could have an area in front of your house for your lawn, just like the big estates do. It was very powerful.
Farmer Fred 05:17
Yeah. And if I recall correctly, that back in the old days in England, one way to flaunt your wealth was to have acres of turf to show your neighbors that, "I don't need to put that area under cultivation for food, I'm so rich."
Thomas Mickey 05:33
Correct. So it became a park in a sense, just like we would define a park today, these long expansive lawns. And of course, on those properties, they had a kitchen garden hidden behind the house, walled in with a high red brick wall that would be used for the vegetable needs. And you know, for medicine and herbs, and so forth.
Farmer Fred 05:53
Now, I don't want to give people that the idea that all of your book is about lawns, because there is a wealth of information about a lot of plants that we've adapted here, that were popular in England. And unfortunately, we see that trend here in California, where the weather is very different than the weather on the East Coast or in England and trying to emulate that English garden. And now with the drought happening here, people are finally starting to open their eyes to other alternatives. But again, advertising is swaying people.
Thomas Mickey 06:27
Exactly, exactly. And certainly, we have a lot of it going on today for all kinds of fertilizers and grass seed that you can use to have a beautiful lawn. It is still an important issue for a lot of people all around the country. But I must say in California, there's a great historian, a garden historian whose name is Thomas Brown, and he wrote that California's plants in the 19th century, the major plants were the same varieties that were growing on the east coast. In other words, the garden industry shipped a lot of the plants that were popular here on the East Coast to California in the 19th century. Now he says 95% of the plants were introduced species before 1900.
Farmer Fred 07:12
I'm not a bit surprised. California is a land of immigrants and you want to bring a piece of where you used to live with you. And what better than some plants? Exactly, exactly. So that makes a lot of sense. Now let's talk about those seed catalogs that came out back then, or the history of the seed catalog, how long have seed catalogs been around?
Thomas Mickey 07:30
Well, the catalog itself really dates from the early 1800s. But the catalog at that time, was just a listing of plants, just like we would see, one right after the other. But by 1850, when printing improved, and after that when Chroma lithography and the press was able to create catalogs in the 1000s, it became a different catalog. So at that time, there were many seed companies, and they would not only have the plant listed, but also a description of the plant and also how to grow the plants. There was more space to do that simply because you could print more. So by the end of the 19th century, the catalogs became like a little book. They had beautiful color covers, and inside, sometimes even color illustrations. And those illustrations done in chromo are really just as beautiful today as they were when they were first put in. And they were sent out in enormous amounts. For example, the Child's Company, which was in New York, in 1875, sent out 750 catalogs. But 20 years later, in 1895, they sent out almost one and a half million.
Farmer Fred 08:41
Were these purchased by the homeowners or were they sent out free?
Thomas Mickey 08:46
They were usually sent out free, and then you became, of course, as a great marketing ploy, you became one of their number. So you would get one automatically the next year,
Farmer Fred 08:56
just like it is today.
Thomas Mickey 08:58
Exactly how it is today. And these seed companies were way ahead of other companies who were using the mail to sell their product, way ahead of Sears, and Montgomery Ward. The seed companies kind of set the mark for all of that, because they did such a great job at it. And these are relatively small catalogs to send around. So they did really well, especially when the railroad came out. And then the government loosened up on post office regulations. And so these catalogs really were distributed clear across the country from Maine to California.
Farmer Fred 09:31
What catalogs now catch your eye? When you look at them, you say, "this is really good."
Thomas Mickey 09:37
The catalog of all catalogs today is the White Flower Farm, from Connecticut. That's one of the most beautiful catalogs. A Song Sparrow catalog from the Midwest is a beautiful catalog. There are several catalogs for heirloom seeds that are really beautiful today as well. But a lot of the catalogs that we receive today are also online, so people aren't always printing them today. But we certainly have access to the descriptions of the plants, either online or in still in these old catalogs. We still get a bunch of catalogs every year.
Farmer Fred 10:10
Now one of the prettiest, speaking of heirloom catalogs, is the Baker Creek catalog, which is an oversized publication, it looks like a double issue of Life magazine, and just festooned with great color pictures and great stories about the plants. And really, that's part of a great garden catalog are the stories of the plants.
Thomas Mickey 10:31
Exactly. People love stories, right. And that's a great way for people to kind of connect with a plant, when there was a story about them. That's a beautiful catalog, and it is an enormous catalog. You're right on that level, that's for sure. But Burpee, one of the famous seed catalog owners and seed company owners, W Atlee Burpee, said the catalog is my salesman Wasn't that brilliant?
Farmer Fred 10:54
Yes. And that's exactly true.
Thomas Mickey 10:57
Exactly. That is how a person knows the company. So it was really a great marketing strategy, that the catalog is my link to to the customer. So I've got to do a good job at this catalog. And of course Burpee and the others did. They really were quite proud of their catalogues.
Farmer Fred 11:13
It's been a pleasure talking with Thomas J. Mickey, author of the book, "America's Romance with the English Garden", visit his website, americangardening.net and read his blogs. Excellent entertaining writing there.
Thomas Mickey 11:25
Thank you for it, I enjoyed it.
Farmer Fred 11:30
Smart Pots. It's the original award winning fabric planter. It's sold worldwide and Smart Pots are proudly made 100% in the USA. Smart Pots, by the way, are BPA-free with no risk of chemicals leaching into your soil, your herbs, vegetables and other animals. That's why organic growers prefer Smart Pots. And they last for years. Some gardeners have been using the same Smart Pots for over a decade. Smart Pots breathable fabric creates a healthy root structure for plants. Because the fabric breathes, Smart Pots are better suited than plastic pots, especially for really hot and really cold climates. And unlike a plastic pot, the fabric won't crack or break from frost or when dropped. For more information, visit SmartPots.com/Fred. And don't forget that "slash Fred" part, because on that page are details of discounts when you buy Smart Pots at Amazon. Visit SmartPots.com/Fred.
Farmer Fred 12:34
Awhile back when we were talking about controlling nutgrass here on the Garden Basics podcast, many of you had other ideas about what is the worst weed to have and I thank you for your submissions to the Get Growing with Farmer Fred Facebook page on that topic. Debbie Flower is here, our favorite retired college horticultural professor. We had a lot of nominees for the worst weed to have. If you're a bicyclist, this may be at the top of the list: goat head, aka puncture vine. With this really sharp seed case that will penetrate into your shoe sole, your tractor tires and your bicycle tires.
Debbie Flower 13:11
Yes, yes. My experience with it was when I lived in the Reno area, and my kids were young and they'd go ride their bicycle down to the school playground. And often they walked their bicycle home because they had run over one of those seed pods, and it had punctured the tire.
Farmer Fred 13:26
This is a tough weed to control in its early stages until you learn what it looks like in its pre goat head stage. Because it's a crawling weed, it sprawls. It's kind of green, almost looks kind of like an oxalis or something like that. But these seed heads are also known as caltrops. And the seed case, resembles it has like four spikes on it. And it can rest on any of the three spikes. And the fourth spike will stick straight up. And that means if you're trying to remove it, you better wear some good gloves. Because they are sharp.
Debbie Flower 14:02
And they just sort of grow out in the middle of nowhere.
Farmer Fred 14:06
Yeah, they like a dry climate. They're native to a lot of Mediterranean areas. They can't take too much in the way of freezing temperatures. But man oh man, you do not want to be running barefoot through the daisies with this one.
Debbie Flower 14:19
No, or riding your bike through the school playground.
Farmer Fred 14:23
Or mountain biking or any place where it may be. Because you're not gonna see it.
Debbie Flower 14:27
Right, it's very low. Yeah, that's a lovely little yellow flower. And with five petals from that flower comes that Caltrop, that very sharp seed pod.
Farmer Fred 14:38
Now the good news is there are two weevils. Yes, we've imported them from India, France and Italy as bio control agents. And it's a seed weevil that deposits its eggs in the immature bur or flower bud and the larvae feed on and destroy the seeds, before the weevils pupate and emerge as adults, who disperse and start cycle over again. The generation time in warmer areas is about two weeks, three weeks or so. But that stem weevil is just a helper. It's not going to solve the problem right?
Debbie Flower 15:11
It's not going to get rid of it totally. Now you can get the weevils from an insectary. Okay, there are such things as insectaries. And the one I like the best is called Rincon Vitova. And I like them because they want to talk to you about what's going on. And they want a lot of data about what you're trying to control. And they will keep in touch and mail you the appropriate biological control insect in this case, for when it should be released in your environment.
Farmer Fred 15:48
Their website is easy to remember, it's rinconvitova.com. And they're based here in California, and they have all sorts of beneficial insects that might help you out. That must be an interesting catalog to look at.
Debbie Flower 16:01
Actually never, I've only looked at things online, and there's zillions of tables of what they have and what it will control. And when it has to be released. When I worked with them for releasing some insects into the greenhouse to control other insects, they wanted lots of data, like the humidity and the temperature extremes and things like that. And if you can't tell them, you say that. But they will work with as much data as you can give them, so that you have the most success. A friend of mine had a barn with horses and the horse manure attracted flies, and she got on a program through rincon vitova, where they would send regularly, I believe, it was nematodes to put in the pile that would eat the fly eggs.
Farmer Fred 16:43
Hmm. Okay. I would think though, for controlling the puncture vine, you would have to let the puncture vine grow for these weevils do their job.
Debbie Flower 16:51
Right. You have to have that stem? Yeah.
Farmer Fred 16:53
Can you cut off the flowers and still be able to attract the weevils or do they need the flower?
Debbie Flower 16:59
I don't know the answer to that. That's a good question. And I wonder if you need to talk to your municipality about releasing an insect like that into the environment before you do it. So your government, but people with large properties may find weevil control helpful.
Farmer Fred 17:14
Yeah. But again, for management. And the good news is the seed can only live undisturbed for five years, right? Unlike some seeds, like Bermuda grass, and others that can last decades, right. So that's somewhat good news there. And in my experience, working with puncture vine, that if you get in there, and remove it with your hoes, shallow tilling, generally, you might be free of that plant for a few years. Right.
Debbie Flower 17:43
It's a late spring, early summer germinator. So that would be the time that you would want to do that physical elimination of it. And that's when you're going to need to know what it looks like.
Farmer Fred 17:52
So we'll have those pictures posted in the Garden Basics newsletter for you to check out. Don't try mowing it because it's going to get in the tires of your mower. And it's a clever plant, it will set flowers below your mower blade height. Yes. Well, yeah, it's there's a few other weeds that do that, too. Yes. So one of the the tricks of working with it, as I said, Because of those caltrops, those very sharp goat head-type seed cases, is you want to protect yourself. Take out a kneeling pad and heavy gloves. Another trick that one farm advisor told me about is to use an old piece of carpet and put it down in the area where you're removing the puncturevine seedheads. And those caltrops, those seed balls, will stick to the carpet. Mm hmm. And then find somebody you don't like to remove them from the carpet.
Debbie Flower 18:45
The carpet you don't want to keep.
Farmer Fred 18:46
Right, toss out the carpet.
Debbie Flower 18:48
Yeah. But if you have animals, you know that they will potentially get it in their fur and move it from place to place. The Caltrop acts as part of its seed dispersal mechanism.
Farmer Fred 18:57
Right. We had instances of puncture vine on some of the walking trails around here. And the dogs were getting those in their paws. Yeah. And removing them is no easy feat, so to speak, because of the shape of that multi prong curved head. It's nasty. But if you can screen out light, that will work too. So again, it's a plant that doesn't like shade. It likes dry areas.
Debbie Flower 19:27
Yes. hot, dry areas.
Farmer Fred 19:29
Yeah. So if you see a weed growing and it's green, and you wonder, how is this living in this hot, dry area? You might take a closer look at it. And it could very easily be puncture vine. It's obviously a plant that will withstand the next nuclear holocaust. What about chemical controls for controlling a puncture vine? And you know, they say Glyphosate. Glyphosate can kill anything but...
Debbie Flower 19:53
This is an annual weed and so by the time it works, the glyphosate does not kill something instantly. It will continue to grow, continue to produce whatever the next part is it might be deformed, but it isn't. It hasn't proven to be very effective in getting rid of this plant over time.
Farmer Fred 20:10
And it's more effective, the smaller or younger the plant is. Yeah, so there's that. And there are pre emergent herbicides. But they're not that effective. They must be applied prior to germination. Like, where you think there's gonna be.
Debbie Flower 20:28
Yeah, so if you've had the problem in the past that might be effective, but otherwise no.
Farmer Fred 20:32
Goatheads. Puncturevine. I don't like it.
Debbie Flower 20:36
Me Neither.
Farmer Fred 20:37
Alright, thank you, Debbie.
Debbie Flower 20:38
You're welcome, Fred.
Farmer Fred 20:41
If you're thinking of growing fruit trees, or maybe you already have your own backyard full of fruit trees, you probably have a million questions. Like, which fruit trees will grow well where I live? What are the tastiest fruits to grow? How do I care for them? What are the most important things to know when starting a backyard orchard? Well, the good news is: those answers are just a click away with the informative videos that you can find at DaveWilson.com. That's Dave Wilson Nursery, the nation's largest grower of fruit trees for the backyard garden. At DaveWilson.com , you'll also find planting tips, taste test results, fruit variety recommendations, and links to nurseries in your area that carry Dave Wilson fruit trees. Your harvest to better health begins at DaveWilson.com.
Farmer Fred 21:31
Because there are so many demands on your time these days, I like to keep the Garden Basics podcast to under 30 minutes. Still, there is a lot more to tackle on all the garden subjects we bring up on the podcast. So, for that, and a lot more, we’re starting up The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter, on Substack. As the newsletter grows, so will the subject matter. So, yes, it will be a good supplement for the Garden Basics podcast, but there will be a lot more garden related material and probably pictures of my dogs and cats, as well. It’s the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred Newsletter on Substack. And best of all, it’s free! There’s a link in today’s show notes. Or, just go to substack.com, and do a search for Garden Basics with Farmer Fred. That’s substack.com. The Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter. Did I tell you it’s free? It’s free.
Farmer Fred 22:36
Every week we like to talk with Warren Roberts out at the UC Davis Arboretum and Public Garden and get a Plant of the Week. It's always something that's putting on some sort of show, despite the season. And today, Warren, we're talking about, well... it's a mixed bag of a tree I must say, but it does have beautiful fall color... if you're lucky enough to have a variety that produces fall color.
Warren Roberts 23:01
We're talking about the liquidambar, the Sweet Gum, as we call it in the USA and Canada. Liquidambar styraciflua is the species native to eastern North America and continuing down into Central America, incidentally. Wow. But I think the furthest north that gets natural growths is I think, New Jersey. It's not the most cold hardy tree, but it's certainly for American trees for fall color. It's one of the champions and it's been widely planted in the West. I remember flying into the Burbank Airport, Los Angeles, looking out the window in the fall and seeing amazing fall color. This would have been the San Fernando Valley because of the hundreds, if not 1000s, of sweet gums planted. There's one particular cultivar called Palo Alto, named for a tree growing in the town of Palo Alto, California, of course, planted here, which had dependable red fall color. But the full color can be all the way from pale yellow, through orange to red to purple, depending on the cultivar and there are about 48 named cultivars. You have a lot of choice. The Liquidambar Styraciflua is... well, let's see... they've changed the family on it. It used to be in the Hammaladaceae family.
Farmer Fred 24:35
I'm glad you said that and not me.
Warren Roberts 24:37
That's particular family. Now it's in the Altingiaceae, which is a related family, obviously, so we don't usually worry about that too much when we're gardening but that may be of interest to some.
Farmer Fred 24:50
It complicates my life when doing the transcript.
Warren Roberts 24:54
Oh goodness. Altingiaceae.
Farmer Fred 25:00
You read my mind.
Warren Roberts 25:01
Of course the leafs are beautiful. They look kind of like Maple Leafs but they're borne on opposite each other on the stem, whereas Maple Leafs are born alternately, use that as a determining a way of telling one from the other. Also when you crush the leaves of liquidambar, it has a kind of a carrot-like smell, nice. Which the maple, of course, does not. So we have so many different choices for color. But there are several other species, some of which are available in the horticultural trade. And one of them would be Liquidambar formosiana, which is from China, and by the name you can tell, also, from the island of Taiwan. And this also has been in cultivation, I think there are four different cultivars. There is also a variety that's a little more cold hardy, called variety Monticola meaning, "from the mountains". This liquidambar has three lobes, typically. And the cultivars that are available have kind of rosy red fall color. It's an attractive tree, and the burrs, and when I say burrs, I mean the seed. The fruiting heads and seed heads are not quite as hard and painful to sit down on.
Farmer Fred 26:27
Or you're barefoot.
Warren Roberts 26:28
Or you're barefoot. Yeah, the Taiwan Liquidambar, the burrs are softer. Now there is another one. Liquidambar orientalis, is native to the eastern Mediterranean region.
Farmer Fred 26:43
These are the names that confuse me. How an Oriental sweetgum is from Turkey and not from China.
Warren Roberts 26:49
Well, the the Orient is the Roman Empire. It was Asia Minor, of course, by association extending further east, like the Orient Express, went from where Vienna is to Istanbul, Istanbul and of course that was the Orient, the Oriental Roman Empire, when they moved it to Constantinople. So this tree is native to that area. It's also native or native to the Holy Land. Historically, the sap is tapped on all of these species and used medicinally. And this Liquidambar orientalis is the true, biblical, Balm of Gilead. Which people that read the Bible will come across that.
Farmer Fred 27:35
Or if you're planting a Bible garden.
Warren Roberts 27:38
Yes, if you're planting a biblical garden, the Liquidambar orientalis should be one of your main trees. It's very much like Liquidambar styraciflua has at least five lobes on the leaves. The seed heads are about the same shape but much smaller and can get a fairly good fall color. I took a cutting of one I saw in Berkeley in the mid 1970s. We have it at the Arboretum nursery now. It has a trunk about two feet through. I saw it because it had purple leaves and we've never done anything with it commercially, but it's there to be be looked at and usually has an abundance of multicolored leaves in the fall as well. And of course the biblical association is of interest to a lot of people. The medicine was considered a salve for wounds and sores. So it was used a lot in the ancient times. And the one native to North America is similar. The one from Taiwan, a note that I see, there is a silkworm that feeds on it and produces a so called Marvello hair. Now, how's that for trivia?
Farmer Fred 28:57
That's trivia.
Warren Roberts 28:58
That's trivia, but kind of interesting, I think. And then there is one other species Liquidambar acalycina, which is from southern China, and it's similar to the Formosan, that it has its three lobes. But all of these trees are are useful. The hardiest one would probably be the Liquidambar Styraciflua. Although the Liquidambar Orientalis would be right behind it there in hardiness. Liquidambar Styraciflua, the wood is is used in building and carpentry. One of my uncle's who had a underground house in Ontario, Oregon. The paneling on his house was Liquidambar wood, called satin walnut is the name in the trade. And it's a beautiful honey colored wood. So it takes big trees to make that, but they can get big. This a big deciduous trees that have been used for medicine, for carpentry, for a long, long time,
Farmer Fred 30:06
Many years ago, I wrote a newspaper column that I called "Back 40 Trees", trees that are best set, way in the back of the yard. And leading that newspaper article was the liquidambar, because the roots can crack driveways or walkways. The root system can heave pavement and those seedpods can puncture bicycle tires, so you don't want to drive near it, or walk near it. But it's beautiful to look at in the distance, maybe have your neighbor plant one where you can enjoy it.
Warren Roberts 30:37
Especially if your neighbor waters his or her yard too much. Because it is a tree that likes irrigation. It's a good tree for the edge of a lawn where you're going to have be doing watering anyway. Although not so good for the bare feet, through but still with the fall color.
Farmer Fred 30:58
It's kind of hard to beat the liquidambar. I'm sure there's one near you.
Warren Roberts 31:06
One of the things, too, is that the leaves don't all drop at once and as the leaves thin out, you get this wonderful pointillis effect of remaining bright leaves up in the tree. All together, a very beautiful tree for fall.
Farmer Fred 31:21
And a rather interesting looking trunk as well. So it really does have a year round interest.
Warren Roberts 31:27
Yes, I think so. And also you know, you can catch people calling it a maple and you can say in a nice way, well it looks a bit like a maple but it actually is a liquidambar.
Farmer Fred 31:38
Yeah, just just call its thug cousin.
Warren Roberts 31:45
And not for maple sugar, but for for an antiseptic healing balm.
Farmer Fred 31:51
For when you step on one of the burrs.
Warren Roberts 31:54
Oh, ouch!
Farmer Fred 31:57
It's the liquidambar ,and Warren Roberts is with the UC Davis Arboretum and public garden. He is their superintendent Emeritus. The Arboretum is a wonderful place to visit any day of the year. You can find out more information when you visit their website arboretum.uc davis.edu . Warren thanks for the liquidambar tree.
Warren Roberts 32:17
You're welcome Fred.
Farmer Fred 32:29
Don’t forget, if you want to learn more about the topics covered on today’s episode of Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, subscribe to the free Garden Basics newsletter, on Substack. Details are in today’s show notes. The Garden Basics Podcast will be on its winter schedule from November through January. Which means there will only be one episode per week during this three month period. It’ll come out on Fridays. Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, and we thank them for their support. Garden Basics is available for free wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.
