GB 159 Garden Resolutions, Heavenly Bamboo. TRANSCRIPT
Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, the original lightweight, long lasting fabric plant container. it's made in the USA. Visit SmartPots.com slash Fred for more information and a special discount, that's SmartPots.com/Fred.
Welcome to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast. If you're just a beginning gardener or you want good gardening information, you've come to the right spot.
Eat less sugar. Eat more fiber. Eat out of the garden more! Have you set your New Year’s resolutions yet? We’ll talk with the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society about some good gardening habits to start in 2022.
The UC Davis Arboretum and Public Garden’s Superintendent Emeritus, Warren Roberts, ushers in the New Year with a plant that just might be putting on a show right now with its colorful berries or reddish leaves. It’s the Heavenly Bamboo, also known as Nandina domestica, and it’s our Plant of the Week.
We’re podcasting from Barking Dog Studios here in the beautiful Abutilon Jungle in Suburban Purgatory, it’s episode 159 of the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred podcast, brought to you today by Smart Pots and Dave Wilson Nursery.
And we will do it all in way over 30 minutes. Happy New Year! Let’s go!
Farmer Fred
Well, we're at that time of year when a lot of us make resolutions and that includes gardeners as well. What plans do you have for your garden or your gardening habits in 2022? We are talking with Andrew Bunting. He is the vice president of public gardens and landscapes at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society, an internationally recognized organization that was founded a long, long time ago. It's also the producer of the world famous Philadelphia Flower Show. And we'll talk a little bit about that as well. And Andrew, thanks for joining us here on the Garden Basics podcast, you are a part of an organization that is going to be celebrating a rather big milestone in a few years.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, we're only a handful of years away from our 200th anniversary.
Farmer Fred
So I noticed that at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society website, and by the way, that is an excellent and a very beautiful website as well. PHSonline.org, you have a lot of great information for the gardeners, I guess, is for the Philadelphia area? Or is it for Pennsylvania in general? Because Pennsylvania is a rather complicated state, I think when it comes to gardening, because there's three USDA zones in Pennsylvania?
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, I would say that a lot of our garden information is probably more for gardeners of the Mid Atlantic region. Washington, DC to New York, and all of New Jersey and Delaware, probably to the middle of Pennsylvania. Once you get into the western parts of Pennsylvania, like you said, it can be two to three zones colder than it is in the Philadelphia area.
Farmer Fred
So let's talk a little bit about the the pride and joy of the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society. And that's the Philadelphia Flower Show, which has to be the premier garden event in the United States of America.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, that's right. It's big. Normally, it's indoors. But with COVID, it was out of doors last year, for the first time ever, in its history. But when it's indoors, it's the largest indoor flower show. So in the world, it's definitely like you said, the biggest kind of horticultural spectacle in the United States. Its been running also since almost the beginning of the Society. So the Society started in 1827. The first flower show was in 1829. And it's been running more or less, every year, since then. And last year, it started towards the end of May. This year, it's also going to be out of doors again. And it's held in a big park in South Philadelphia called FDR Park. And in 2022, it'll run from June 11, to June 19.
Farmer Fred
Which is a bit of change from the dates of previous Philadelphia Flower Shows, which were held somewhere between winter and spring.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, that's right, it typically starts right towards the end of February, and then continues to the first nine or 10 days of March. And, the plan is or the hope is that, one, indoor activities become safer. Hopefully it will, someday, once again, return to being an indoor show, as well.
Farmer Fred
So for the people displaying plants at the Philadelphia Flower Show, do they find this to be an easier adaptation for a June show than doing a show in March?
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, I think there's pros and cons to both. I would say doing it in May or late May, like we did last year. In June, like we'll do this year, many of the plants that are on display and flowering would already be flowering. So for example, you could go into a nursery and get a large flowering hydrangea and bring it to the show and have it on display. If you want a hydrangea in flower for the winter show then you have to force it in a greenhouse into flower. So the indoor show does have a lot of forest plants. It has 30 feet tall cherry trees that somebody has forced, laying down on its side and in a greenhouse. But also, the indoor flower show takes more advantage of tropical plants as well as cut flowers. In our outdoor show we still do floral exhibits but they're perhaps a little hot. It's harder to execute because the weather can be fairly warm.
Farmer Fred
And in middle of June it could be downright humid.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, humid. It can be hot, it can be windy.
Farmer Fred
And it might rain
Andrew Bunting
Yeah. fingers crossed that the rain holds off or if it does, perhaps, just a nice little shower.
Farmer Fred
Yeah, a shower is not that big a deal really, all in all, but the Philadelphia Flower Show is always an attraction. It attracts people from around the world.
Andrew Bunting
Yes. And we have a strong following in the area, since it's been going for so long. It's really a multi generational event. So you'll see grandparents with their kids and their grandkids, who come in from the train, either from the suburbs, or a lot of people come down from either Washington DC or from New York or Boston to come to the show.
Farmer Fred
It's June 11 through the 19th, at FDR Park in Philadelphia. More information about the Philadelphia flower show can be found at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society website, PHSonline.org. Alright, now, one of the things we want to talk about now that we're in this reflective mood, wondering about what we're going to do differently in 2022, the brains over there at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society came up with some garden trends for 2022 that are ideal for gardeners of all interests and experience levels, to incorporate into their own gardens. So let's talk about some of those. One of my favorite things to do is to promote the "Good Bug Hotel", which is to bring in pollinator plants and native plants.
Andrew Bunting
I would say natives first and then pollinator plants, which could be natives. They could also be exotic plants. Both have been trending for some time. I would say the native plant movement has been in full swing for, I would say at least two decades, and I would say there's no sign of that waning whatsoever. And then kind of a nuanced aspect to that is perhaps planting native gardens that have plants that are great for attracting pollinators. The classic is the butterfly milkweed, Asclepia tuberosa, or any of the mountain mints, the genus is Pycnanthemum, cone flowers are great for monarch and swallowtail butterflies. Almost anything that's in the daisy family, whether it's the Black Eyed Susan or Helianthus, or Shasta daisies, those are all good plants for pollinators. So a lot of people are planting pollinator strips, they might plant actually down the row, in between the vegetables in a vegetable garden, they may plant a strip of permanent pollinators around the edge of the vegetable garden so that they can ensure that they have a good host of pollinators to pollinate the vegetables in their vegetable garden. Or here, you're also seeing a lot of ornamental gardens that are pollinator heavy.
Farmer Fred
Exactly. And I imagine the bee friendly plant,s as well, probably attract all sorts of native bees.
Andrew Bunting
Yes. So I used to live in Illinois, and I think we had over 300 native bees just in Illinois. So most people know the honeybee, or the bumble bee, but there's many, many, many native bees as well in in all states throughout the United States. And there's also little pollinating wasps, that are non-stinging wasps and other pollinating insects. So it's good to support those as the best you can, with introducing plants that are known to be a great attractor of a myriad of pollinators.
Farmer Fred
And beneficial insects as well, which can cut down your use of pesticides.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, we advocate for the use of as little chemicals in the garden as is possible. So really, no synthetic fungicides, herbicides or insecticides. So once you eliminate those, then you create a really healthy environment for your plants to grow strong. And then also, if you're spraying for the bad, bad pests, you're gonna kill the good ones as well. Also limiting the amount of chemical fertilizers in the garden will ensure that you have all the beneficial insects as well.
Farmer Fred
Including the beneficial soil microbes.
Andrew Bunting
There's as much of a network of activity in the soil mychorrazae that are helping with different plants and In the native soils, and helping facilitate essentially the exchange of nutrients.
Farmer Fred
And to make room for all of this, well, you might need to tear up a little bit of lawn to put in some more plants. And ripping out a lawn here in California, local governments are paying people to rip out their lawn and put it in a more drought tolerant garden. I don't think they're not doing that back there, or are they?
Andrew Bunting
No, not for drought reasons. I know that a good portion of California is a Mediterranean climate, and therefore doesn't rain much during the summer months. So, irrigating a lawn in the summer in California, is not very water-wise at all. One reason for eliminating lawn would be to eliminate the amount of inputs you need, watering being one of them, the other is that it needs to be mowed. Mowing requires a certain amount of gas, obviously, and fossil fuels to do so. So every homeowner could even reduce their lawn by, let's say, 25 square feet, which is only five feet by five feet. And if it was done across the entire United States, you can imagine how much less water would need to go into that collective amount of lawn and how much less fuel to maintain the mowing. And then you could also then take that square footage, and turn it into whatever. A vegetable garden, or pollinator garden or flower garden or any any kind of garden would be better than just having, a pure, pure lawn. I have a lawn in my home. And I enjoy it for a variety of reasons, recreation and otherwise. So it's not as though we're suggesting the complete elimination of the great American lawn, but just a little reduction here. And that would be really a great way for us, in a small way, to do our part to make for a better, overall environment.
Farmer Fred
Exactly. Your children and your dogs do not need 5000 square feet of turf. But good luck convincing people of that. That's the hard part.
Andrew Bunting
I live in South Philadelphia and my neighbor next to me, she took this back corner of her yard that she never did anything back there, except for mowing it. And it's probably 20 by 20. So, it's 400 square feet. And she just didn't mow it, it just turned essentially into a little meadow. And it was amazing just to see like what came up and flowered. And I'm sure it was a great habitat, or for birds, insects, and so forth. So even if you didn't turn it into a garden, you can just let it go kind of naturalistic, just let it grow.
Farmer Fred
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Farmer Fred
We are talking with Andrew Bunting of the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society about garden resolutions for 2022. For new gardeners, the magnetism of heading towards the garden center cannot be denied. Yes, you will do that. But the thing is, your neighbors may have some interesting plants that they have too many of. I know I have that disease. If I plant tomatoes, well, I'm going to plant three or four of the same tomato seeds, just to make sure that one of them comes up. Well, of course, all three or four come up. So that means I've got plants out front that I'm trying to give away in April. And I'm sure a lot of people back there are in the same boat as well. And they probably have some sort of plant swaps or some sort of way to exchange plants with each other.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, so plant swaps have become really popular. I think a lot of it's been kind of energized by or catalyzed by house plants, which also continue to be really popular. And plant swaps are an easy way for people to exchange house plants. Just a little bit of a spider plant or a little cutting from a jade plant or a leaf from an African Violet can be shared with somebody else and they're all relatively easy to propagate. I know people in my neighborhood might have a hosta that's gotten too big. And they'll divide it into like 10 little hostas and maybe not even pot them up, just put them on a little bit of a tarp at the end of their driveway and then through social media exchanges like Facebook or Instagram. Maybe you have the same in California, we have this platform called Next Door. The town I live in is Swarthmore, where there is Next Door Swarthmore. You go on there and say, "I've got 10 Free hostas. first come first serve." It has your address, and it's a great way to really share plants that you may have extra of that you might have grown like a dozen extra seedlings of tomatoes, or you might have some extra potting soil. They also use exchanges for things like nursery pots and things, other gardening items that people have extras of. We operate pop up Gardens, which have also kind of a food and beverage component. But they're also fairly large gardens and they're in the city. So we do these plants swaps where everybody's invited to come. Essentially the rules are, whatever you bring, you get that much to swap, or trade for. So you bring five, whatever, and then you can take five of whatever from what everybody else has brought. I've seen it as a great gateway for somebody who's never gardened before and maybe want to get some new houseplants or get a new perennial for their garden or vegetable starts, or a little bit of potting soil. So it's free, you know, based on kind of the exchange and bartering system. Some of them have become quite large as well.
Farmer Fred
And that would include seeds, as well. How many people use an entire seed pack?
Andrew Bunting
Exactly, yeah Every time you plant carrots or something and have like half of the packet left, you might as well exchange it. You know how lots of communities have these free libraries where it's like a little box on a post, and they put extra books in there that they're finished with? And anybody in the community can come and take, take free books, this exhibit had the same idea, but it was for seeds. So it'd be great if like, in different communities, if there was kind of a comparable idea of this little free library, but for free garden seeds where maybe there's this one place in the town, where everybody puts all their free seeds. And it's kind of a first come, first serve, basis that would help disseminate all this extra garden seed.
Farmer Fred
I like that idea. That's a great plan. And I hope more and more people take advantage of that. And maybe attending a plant swap, even setting up your own with others in your neighborhood is the way to go. And I think that's a good New Year's resolution for gardeners in 2022. One thing I am fond of saying to new gardeners is that the healthiest food you can eat is the food that you grow yourself. And with new techniques around now, it's getting easier to have a complete fruit orchard in your backyard when you practice size control. Is that trend taking off back east there?
Andrew Bunting
Yes, yes. In fact, in Philadelphia, there's a nonprofit called the Philadelphia Orchard Project. What they advocate is that you can actually grow fruit trees in a relatively small amount of land. It might just be a small side yard, where through either cultivars selection, maybe getting cultivars that are more diminutive in size or through pruning, maybe training to a fence or espalier, you can be fairly productive in a small amount of space. And so there's been a real resurgence in all all types of fruits. Your traditional fruit, pears and peaches and apples, but we are also starting to see maybe some of your non-traditional plants. For a long time, because our winters were colder, figs did not do well here. But now, figs are fairly hardy, especially if you grow them up next to a southern facing side of a building or a house. At home I grow Asian persimmons. So our native persimmon Diospyros virginiana is kind of the size of maybe a marshmallow, you know a large marshmallow. But when you eat it, unless it's been frosted, it really makes your mouth pucker. But the Asian persimmon, Diospyros kaki, are much bigger. And once they've been frosted a couple times, they're soft. You can eat them right off the tree. And they have like a real sweet kind of pulpy aspect to them. And there's many cultivars, like the one I have, Saijo. It's kind of an egg-shaped fruit but then there's one called Great Wall. That's kind of squat but almost look like a little pumpkin. And they're orange. They're really pretty as well. So you're starting to see a lot of people also experimenting with different types of fruit in the garden.
Farmer Fred
Another trend for 2022 that the people at the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society are encouraging and, and I'm on this bandwagon, too, is have a cut flower garden.
Andrew Bunting
Everybody loves cut flowers. What has sprung up is this kind of boutique cut flower industry. So there's lots of people growing plants that have been around a long time. A lot of people might consider them kind of old fashioned flowers, but they're growing lots of varieties and actually being sold through farmers markets, I think that's where one place where there has been this amazing revival of cut flowers is, is through farmers markets. The farmers market I have in my town, there's at least one or two purveyors of great cut flowers. And you can either buy them individually or oftentimes in a nice little bouquet. Some of the flower types that have become really popular are dahlias. Dahlias, again, are plant that does quite well in the Midwest. It does relatively well, on the east coast, I would think and especially in Northern California, I would think it would do fairly well. Some are huge, like, almost like 12 inches across. And then others are much more diminutive, and they come in almost every color, except for blue. There's pinks, and red and magenta and yellows and white, and, really all sizes, as well. And then zinnias. Zinnias was of one of the flowers my grandmother had and in her garden in Nebraska. And that's also had an amazing Renaissance. Both in the garden, and especially as a cut flower. So some of these old fashioned flowers are really making a significant comeback in the what is really an exploding boutique industry.
Farmer Fred
Oh, I love zinnias as a cut flower. They last a long time indoors. And the problem is, at nurseries, they don't carry a very broad selection of zinnias. In fact, most of them are more like bedding zinnias. But if you want some vibrant color or vibrant looking flowers that get a little bit of size to them, you just might have to plant from seed. And that's okay.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, I would say that with zinnias, to get the most variety, probably just grow seeds yourself. Dahlias actually come as a tuber, as a fleshy root. And there are some specialty companies in the US. For unusual annuals in general, many of which could be used for cut flowers, California has one of my most favorite nurseries. Annie's Annuals. Yes, it is in the Oakland area and they have mail order. We buy a lot of stuff from Annie's Annuals.
Farmer Fred
Ah, okay, that's good news. Zinnias are an easy plant to grow. And they, too, will attract the pollinators and beneficial insects.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, butterflies. They're like zinnias for sure. Yeah.
Farmer Fred
So there's a great collection of triple duty flowers you can plant in your garden. Not only are good for cutting but also as a pollinator attractive plant, and to attract beneficial insects. So yeah, consider planting a cut flower garden in 2022. Well, that's quite the list for people to ponder. We'll have this list of 2022 garden trends posted on the Garden Basics newsletter that accompanies the podcast. The Pennsylvania Horticultural Society's website is PHSonline.org. And you can find out more information about the upcoming Philadelphia Flower Show to be held outdoors at FDR Park in Philadelphia, June 11 through the 19th. And that seems like almost too short of a time.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, I mean, it takes a lot of effort to put together the flower show. So, it's a matter of keeping the plants going for 10 days or so which, with weather, I think that's a challenge. But our flower show is typically nine to 10 days. So that's kind of in line with what we would typically do.
Farmer Fred
Yes. What people don't realize about a lot of the major flower shows is that when the door is closed to the public at 5pm, there's a whole other shift that comes on duty to clean stuff up.
Andrew Bunting
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. You know, we groom and water the plants into the wee hours of the following morning and have to have everything look almost perfect every day when we open the doors.
Farmer Fred
Exactly. Andrew Bunting is with the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society. He is the vice president of public gardens and landscapes. And again, more information online at PHSonline.org. Andrew, thanks for helping us get 2022 off to a good gardening start.
Andrew Bunting
You're welcome. Thanks for having me.
Farmer Fred
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Farmer Fred
Have you taken a look at the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter yet? There’s one that accompanies each episode of the Garden Basics podcast. It’s a deeper dive into what was discussed on the podcast, along with more great gardening information.
And the newsletter for this episode, episode159, expands upon one of the suggested New Year’s Resolutions from Andrew Bunting of the Pennsylvania Horticultural Society. It’s one you didn’t hear, yet. Because, it will be a special extra podcast in this week’s Garden Basics newsletter. Andrew Bunting talked about the rising popularity back East of gravel gardening. You’ll hear his thoughts about it, followed by a discussion between me and Debbie Flower about its appropriateness for hot climates, along with some of the drawbacks of growing plants in rocks. It’s a gravel garden podcast, only available in the Garden Basics newsletter. And it’s out now.
You can find a link to the Garden Basics with Farmer Fred newsletter in the podcast show notes; or, at Farmer Fred dot com; or, by going to substack dot com slash garden basics.
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Farmer Fred
We always like to talk with Warren Roberts. He's the Superintendent Emeritus of the University of California Davis Arboretum and Public Garden he gives us a plant of the week to enjoy. And Warren, in my estimation, your plant choice this week is downright heavenly.
Warren Roberts
Oh, nice of you to say. Well, the common name for this plant is heavenly bamboo, or sacred bamboo, it is sometimes called. It's not a bamboo though, although it has a kind of a bamboo-like way of not so much in the invasiveness, but just the subtle stems and feathering. So now that we're talking about Nandina domestica, it's related to the barberry family, which would be like both Oregon grape and others. But it's the genus Nandina that has just one species, and it is native from the Himalayas over to Japan. I'm trying to think of why it would be called heavenly bamboo. Perhaps mainly because it flowers and has beautiful fruit berries. Which bamboo, of course, doesn't. Bamboo is a grass, whereas this is not. Oh, another reason might be it comes from the Celestial Kingdom, which was one of the common names for China back in the Renaissance. In fact, one of the somewhat pejorative names for people from that area are Celestials, I don't know if you've heard that. That's not something to use really. But it refers then to the celestial kingdom, which is what we know today as China. Traditionally it is used in China, planted near doorways, as a way of saying "welcome". And this tradition has continued, especially in the western United States. And sometimes people don't really know why. But it seems to be a tradition to use the Nandina near a doorway. For one thing, it doesn't take up too much horizontal room, so that there's this room, usually room for it near a door. Now the other thing is that it it looks nice, it looks nice all year, it's an evergreen plant. And so, it has a pleasant, beautiful appearance, I would say all year. The leaves are interesting and what look like many many leaves of the plant are actually one leaf, which is bipinnate or tripinnate, which refers to the kind of the leaves. are then called leaflets. The plants bloom in spring. And then over time, the berries mature and turn red. And they are seasonal, they look very nice and bright and fresh. At this time of year, the berries will hang on, though, for a long time and eventually turn brown. Not ugly, but not attractive. Particularly one of the issues of this plant is that in areas that have summer rains, it can become a weed, it has become a weed in the eastern United States. I think that the good responsible management of heavenly bamboo is as soon as the berries start to lose their luster, prune them off. The clusters are easily removed and then dispose of them. So you can have these beautiful plants without so much danger of them becoming weedy.
Farmer Fred
You mentioned that it's a good plant by the front door. And one of the reasons for that is it can grow in either sun or shade.
Warren Roberts
It can grow in either sun or shade. My parents had a place in Palm Springs, which is a undeniably desert. And they made it perfectly well there, as long as it grew out of direct sun. So is a pretty adaptable plant. And it grows in some areas that receive a lot of cold, it says with some protection is up to zone three. So it's pretty cold. In really cold climates, the leaves will often drop off, and in many areas they stay green all year. For some varieties, the leaflets will turn red, even a bright red, during the cooler weather, and then turn green again, when the weather warms up.
Farmer Fred
How is that possible?
Warren Roberts
I don't know.
Farmer Fred
Me neither.
Warren Roberts
I don't know. But it seems to me the time to choose your nandina would be this time of year, because the leaf color shows up. And if you want the red leaves, which is very nice, they would show up in the nurseries as well. There are different color very forms. There's one that has ivory colored berries, which is a nice contrast. I think it's one of the toughest landscape shrubs. In fact, it's so easy to grow and so beautiful. It's used a lot. And don't we all know people that don't like something simply because it's common. It doesn't make much sense. But there we are. There are Nandinas that will grow and spread underground, kind of like a bamboo, really. And then there's some which produce very few flowers or fruit, but they're still pretty. In Japan, there are varieties that have been selected, that only get about four inches tall. And the leaves are like little threads. And these are for, of course, specialty collectors. But within the genus you have selected forms from all the way from, say three inches up to 12 feet. The common form, can get fairly tall. And the best way to prune a nandina is if it starts getting out of hand, prune off the whole stem all the way down to ground level. There is almost nothing sadder than Nandinas that are prone to the upside down pear shape. This plant is so graceful. To reduce it to this kind of stiffness seems criminal, but thank goodness there's a group of people up in the Seattle area called Plant Amnesty which helps people think otherwise, in regard to some really bad pruning practices.
Farmer Fred
Yes, I've discovered that with Nandina, it doesn't spread, but it will grow. I have cut several back down to the ground level and covered it with mulch, and they pop back up.
Warren Roberts
Oh, yeah. Yeah. They're irrepressable.
Farmer Fred
Yes. irrepressible. That's a good term for it. They're trying to make friends with my blueberries.
Warren Roberts
Oh, well, they like similar habitat in in California.
Farmer Fred
That color change of the foliage I always find amazing because in the fall, especially with a little bit of frost, there are varieties of the heavenly bamboo, those leaves turn to red, and then they revert back to green in a few months.
Warren Roberts
Just another group of plants that does that is the Asian species of box (boxwood) where when the weather gets cold, the leaves turn, kind of golden colored. And then when the weather warms back up, the same leaves will turn green again. Where those chloroplasts go to go to hide, I don't know.
Farmer Fred
I don't know either. But it is a heavenly plant. It's the heavenly bamboo. Nandina domestica. Probably putting on a show near you. Check it out. Warren Roberts is the superintendent emeritus of the University of California Davis Arboretum and public garden, you ought to pay that place a visit. It's free. Their website is arboretum.uc davis.edu. Check it out and then make a trip there. Warren, thanks again for the Plant of the Week, the heavenly bamboo.
Warren Roberts
You're welcome.
Farmer Fred
Don’t forget, if you want to learn more about the topics covered on today’s episode of Garden Basics with Farmer Fred, subscribe to the free Garden Basics newsletter, on Substack. Details are in today’s show notes. The Garden Basics Podcast will be on its winter schedule from November through January. Which means there will only be one episode per week during this three month period. It’ll come out on Fridays. Garden Basics with Farmer Fred is brought to you by Smart Pots, and we thank them for their support. Garden Basics is available for free wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening, subscribing and leaving comments. We appreciate it.
