{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":7.8,"endTime":10.44,"body":"And welcome to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":7.8,"endTime":10.44,"body":"Scale Your SaaS very glad that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":10.44,"endTime":12.84,"body":"you're here. Thanks for being"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":10.44,"endTime":12.84,"body":"here. By the way, if you are new"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":12.84,"endTime":16.5,"body":"to the show, our goal is to do"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":12.84,"endTime":16.5,"body":"exactly what the name says scale"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":16.5,"endTime":18.27,"body":"your SaaS, we're going to teach"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":16.5,"endTime":18.27,"body":"you how to generate a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":18.27,"endTime":21.48,"body":"leads, how to close those leads,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":18.27,"endTime":21.48,"body":"how to scale your team, all of"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":21.48,"endTime":24.72,"body":"that fun stuff. And if you are"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":21.48,"endTime":24.72,"body":"new, definitely subscribe to the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":24.72,"endTime":27.84,"body":"show. That way, you'll be able"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":24.72,"endTime":27.84,"body":"to get weekly updates from some"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":27.84,"endTime":30.51,"body":"of the best in the world. Some"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":27.84,"endTime":30.51,"body":"of these people who know how to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":30.51,"endTime":33.48,"body":"do this, they're gonna share all"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":30.51,"endTime":33.48,"body":"their advice with you. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":33.48,"endTime":36.93,"body":"today, one of those best in the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":33.48,"endTime":36.93,"body":"world is with us. I've got Joran"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":36.93,"endTime":38.82,"body":"Hofman with me. Joran, how're"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":36.93,"endTime":38.82,"body":"you doing?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":39.3,"endTime":41.13,"body":"I'm doing good."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":39.3,"endTime":41.13,"body":"Doing good. Thank you, Matt."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":41.99,"endTime":43.64,"body":"Awesome. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":41.99,"endTime":43.64,"body":"absolutely. I'm so glad that you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":43.64,"endTime":45.71,"body":"here. Let me make sure everybody"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":43.64,"endTime":45.71,"body":"knows who you are. So Joren,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":45.8,"endTime":48.98,"body":"he's the founder and CEO at"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":45.8,"endTime":48.98,"body":"Reditus. And basically what that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":48.98,"endTime":51.71,"body":"is, that's a dynamic affiliate"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":48.98,"endTime":51.71,"body":"management software that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":51.71,"endTime":55.61,"body":"tailored for SaaS businesses"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":51.71,"endTime":55.61,"body":"dedicated to elevating B2B SaaS"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":55.61,"endTime":59.66,"body":"through a robust network of over"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":55.61,"endTime":59.66,"body":"50 affiliate programs, Reditus"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":59.66,"endTime":62.9,"body":"empowers your programs growth,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":59.66,"endTime":62.9,"body":"unlocking new avenues to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":62.9,"endTime":66.95,"body":"recurring revenue exclusively"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":62.9,"endTime":66.95,"body":"B2B SaaS companies. He's also a"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":66.95,"endTime":70.88,"body":"growth mentor. So absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":66.95,"endTime":70.88,"body":"this guy knows his stuff. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":70.88,"endTime":73.01,"body":"I'm so glad he's here with us."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":70.88,"endTime":73.01,"body":"Joran, thanks for coming on the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":73.01,"endTime":73.43,"body":"show."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":74.03,"endTime":76.04,"body":"Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":74.03,"endTime":76.04,"body":"having me, Matt. Like I'm happy"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":76.04,"endTime":76.52,"body":"to be here."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":77.54,"endTime":79.64,"body":"Absolutely. So tell"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":77.54,"endTime":79.64,"body":"me what have you been working on"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":79.64,"endTime":80.93,"body":"lately? And what's coming up?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":81.5,"endTime":84.14,"body":"Yeah, we've been"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":81.5,"endTime":84.14,"body":"working on lately. So as you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":84.14,"endTime":86.69,"body":"mentioned, we're an affiliate"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":84.14,"endTime":86.69,"body":"management platform. So we help"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":86.69,"endTime":89.99,"body":"SaaS companies to set up an"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":86.69,"endTime":89.99,"body":"affiliate program. But I think"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":89.99,"endTime":92.78,"body":"the biggest challenges a sales"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":89.99,"endTime":92.78,"body":"company always has is to find"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":92.78,"endTime":96.32,"body":"the right affiliates. So if"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":92.78,"endTime":96.32,"body":"you're asking what have we been"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":96.32,"endTime":100.52,"body":"working on next is basically"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":96.32,"endTime":100.52,"body":"giving SaaS companies insight is"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":100.52,"endTime":104.03,"body":"in who are good affiliates be"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":100.52,"endTime":104.03,"body":"able to filter on them, search"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":104.03,"endTime":108.02,"body":"them and contact them all from"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":104.03,"endTime":108.02,"body":"one single place. Like that's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":108.2,"endTime":109.28,"body":"what's coming up soon."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":110.47,"endTime":112.75,"body":"I love it. What"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":110.47,"endTime":112.75,"body":"made you start Reditus? Where"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":112.75,"endTime":113.53,"body":"did that come from?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":113.0,"endTime":117.83,"body":"I was working at a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":113.0,"endTime":117.83,"body":"company I was head of CS there"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":117.83,"endTime":122.6,"body":"had a lot of calls with clients."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":117.83,"endTime":122.6,"body":"And I always got the question"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":122.66,"endTime":125.3,"body":"like, this is a great tool."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":122.66,"endTime":125.3,"body":"Which tools? Should I use more?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":125.36,"endTime":127.82,"body":"When you do five to 10 demos a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":125.36,"endTime":127.82,"body":"day, you get sick of that"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":127.85,"endTime":131.66,"body":"question. So I decided to build"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":127.85,"endTime":131.66,"body":"a website, it's called"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":131.69,"endTime":135.68,"body":"salesofmarketing.co still live"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":131.69,"endTime":135.68,"body":"doesn't do much at the moment"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":135.68,"endTime":138.95,"body":"anymore. But in the high days,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":135.68,"endTime":138.95,"body":"it had 25,000 Organic visitors"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":138.95,"endTime":142.88,"body":"per month. And I had like 220"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":138.95,"endTime":142.88,"body":"tools on there, which are"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":142.88,"endTime":147.14,"body":"recommended as the best sales or"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":142.88,"endTime":147.14,"body":"marketing tools to use with that"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":147.14,"endTime":149.78,"body":"traffic. My idea was, I'm going"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":147.14,"endTime":149.78,"body":"to lay on the beach somewhere"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":149.78,"endTime":152.96,"body":"and make money by referring them"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":149.78,"endTime":152.96,"body":"with affiliate links, didn't"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":152.96,"endTime":156.8,"body":"really work out, found out that"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":152.96,"endTime":156.8,"body":"I had to log into all these"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":156.83,"endTime":160.25,"body":"different portals all the time,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":156.83,"endTime":160.25,"body":"because the SaaS company set up"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":160.49,"endTime":163.91,"body":"an affiliate program on this"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":160.49,"endTime":163.91,"body":"separate domain, we have to log"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":163.91,"endTime":166.97,"body":"in separately. And at one point,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":163.91,"endTime":166.97,"body":"you stopped doing that. And then"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":166.97,"endTime":170.24,"body":"these bigger networks, like I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":166.97,"endTime":170.24,"body":"just didn't trust the data,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":170.24,"endTime":174.17,"body":"which was in there. So at one"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":170.24,"endTime":174.17,"body":"point, I didn't make money. And"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":174.17,"endTime":178.07,"body":"I thought this can be better. So"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":174.17,"endTime":178.07,"body":"I ended up building a network"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":178.07,"endTime":179.09,"body":"myself, basically."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":180.17,"endTime":182.9,"body":"I love it. Those"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":180.17,"endTime":182.9,"body":"are the best stories of startups"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":182.9,"endTime":185.21,"body":"is when you're trying to do"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":182.9,"endTime":185.21,"body":"something yourself. You can't"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":185.21,"endTime":188.57,"body":"find any solution out there. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":185.21,"endTime":188.57,"body":"you go on create the best thing."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":188.57,"endTime":191.0,"body":"And it just turns out that that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":188.57,"endTime":191.0,"body":"best thing for you also happens"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":191.0,"endTime":194.21,"body":"to be a great thing for other"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":191.0,"endTime":194.21,"body":"people as well. I think that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":194.21,"endTime":197.27,"body":"so fantastic. And what you are"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":194.21,"endTime":197.27,"body":"talking about affiliate"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":197.27,"endTime":201.68,"body":"marketing, can you explain to us"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":197.27,"endTime":201.68,"body":"for some of those of us who"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":201.68,"endTime":203.99,"body":"don't use affiliate marketing or"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":201.68,"endTime":203.99,"body":"don't know exactly what it is?"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":203.99,"endTime":205.7,"body":"What exactly is that?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":206.3,"endTime":209.36,"body":"Yeah. So it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":206.3,"endTime":209.36,"body":"basically, as you can call it"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":209.36,"endTime":212.93,"body":"like an indirect marketing"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":209.36,"endTime":212.93,"body":"channel. So what a lot of SaaS"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":212.93,"endTime":216.26,"body":"companies do is you have your"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":212.93,"endTime":216.26,"body":"ideal customer profile to find"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":216.26,"endTime":220.88,"body":"your ICP, you go out there,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":216.26,"endTime":220.88,"body":"either organic paid ads, events"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":220.88,"endTime":224.15,"body":"or anything like that, you try"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":220.88,"endTime":224.15,"body":"to contact your ICP directly."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":224.6,"endTime":227.21,"body":"With affiliate marketing, It's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":224.6,"endTime":227.21,"body":"an indirect marketing channel,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":227.21,"endTime":229.94,"body":"which basically means is there"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":227.21,"endTime":229.94,"body":"going to be somebody in between"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":229.94,"endTime":233.75,"body":"you and your ICP could be an"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":229.94,"endTime":233.75,"body":"agency, a blogger, an"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":233.75,"endTime":238.34,"body":"influencer, a publisher, anybody"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":233.75,"endTime":238.34,"body":"who has access to your ICP in"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":238.34,"endTime":242.99,"body":"bulk, ideally, you ask them to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":238.34,"endTime":242.99,"body":"start promoting you. If they do,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":243.14,"endTime":246.47,"body":"and people sign up and they"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":243.14,"endTime":246.47,"body":"start a paid plan for your SaaS,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":246.68,"endTime":250.22,"body":"then you're going to give them a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":246.68,"endTime":250.22,"body":"kickback fee in return. So it"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":250.22,"endTime":252.98,"body":"basically means that you would"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":250.22,"endTime":252.98,"body":"only pay these people the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":252.98,"endTime":256.64,"body":"affiliates if they deliver you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":252.98,"endTime":256.64,"body":"paid client and then you agree a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":256.64,"endTime":259.07,"body":"certain percentage with them. So"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":256.64,"endTime":259.07,"body":"let's say you're gonna give them"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":259.1,"endTime":263.45,"body":"20% for 12 months for the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":259.1,"endTime":263.45,"body":"clients they've been bringing on"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":265.1,"endTime":267.11,"body":"I love it and it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":265.1,"endTime":267.11,"body":"something that's that's really"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":267.11,"endTime":271.25,"body":"powerful yet not a lot of"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":267.11,"endTime":271.25,"body":"software companies use this this"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":271.25,"endTime":273.83,"body":"it seems like it's very, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":271.25,"endTime":273.83,"body":"know, consumer products."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":273.86,"endTime":276.47,"body":"Obviously, you can sign up to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":273.86,"endTime":276.47,"body":"an affiliate for like Amazon and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":276.47,"endTime":278.9,"body":"start recommending books and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":276.47,"endTime":278.9,"body":"tell people follow this link and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":278.9,"endTime":282.11,"body":"go buy the book and you get some"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":278.9,"endTime":282.11,"body":"money, but I feel like it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":282.14,"endTime":287.15,"body":"underutilized within B2B SaaS,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":282.14,"endTime":287.15,"body":"so I'm glad, but what made you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":287.15,"endTime":290.9,"body":"say I want to tailor this"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":287.15,"endTime":290.9,"body":"approach for B2B SaaS companies?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":292.25,"endTime":295.37,"body":"We do it purely"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":292.25,"endTime":295.37,"body":"for B2B SaaS, I guess for a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":295.37,"endTime":298.64,"body":"really specific reason as in"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":295.37,"endTime":298.64,"body":"that I've been with my website"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":298.64,"endTime":302.18,"body":"as well been doing some Like"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":298.64,"endTime":302.18,"body":"affiliate marketing, for books"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":302.18,"endTime":305.45,"body":"on Amazon, for example, it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":302.18,"endTime":305.45,"body":"like one off, it's $20. You"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":305.45,"endTime":308.93,"body":"maybe get like $1 in commission"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":305.45,"endTime":308.93,"body":"doesn't really move the needle,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":308.93,"endTime":312.95,"body":"right? So if you go to b2b SaaS,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":308.93,"endTime":312.95,"body":"it basically means it's higher"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":312.95,"endTime":315.35,"body":"ticket prices, because it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":312.95,"endTime":315.35,"body":"business to business software,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":315.44,"endTime":318.26,"body":"which means it's also going to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":315.44,"endTime":318.26,"body":"be higher commissions and is"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":318.26,"endTime":321.56,"body":"recurring. So it's also money we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":318.26,"endTime":321.56,"body":"recurring commission. So"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":322.01,"endTime":325.37,"body":"whenever a SaaS company comes on"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":322.01,"endTime":325.37,"body":"board with us, we ask them, how"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":325.37,"endTime":328.13,"body":"much percentage do you want to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":325.37,"endTime":328.13,"body":"give away and for how long,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":328.61,"endTime":331.16,"body":"which basically means is an"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":328.61,"endTime":331.16,"body":"affiliate can earn a lot more"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":331.16,"endTime":336.17,"body":"than referring B2C. And I think"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":331.16,"endTime":336.17,"body":"that in B2C as well, because"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":336.17,"endTime":340.07,"body":"there's like, there's not a sign"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":336.17,"endTime":340.07,"body":"up, there's not a free trial,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":340.07,"endTime":343.01,"body":"like, there's a lot of fraud"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":340.07,"endTime":343.01,"body":"going on there. And it's harder"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":343.01,"endTime":347.21,"body":"to track that. And within b2b"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":343.01,"endTime":347.21,"body":"SaaS, it's a lot easier to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":347.21,"endTime":351.8,"body":"track. So that's also one of the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":347.21,"endTime":351.8,"body":"reasons why I purely focus on on"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":351.8,"endTime":355.13,"body":"b2b SaaS, but the main reason"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":351.8,"endTime":355.13,"body":"higher recurring commissions."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":356.17,"endTime":359.08,"body":"Yeah, that makes a"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":356.17,"endTime":359.08,"body":"ton of sense. And I love that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":359.08,"endTime":362.29,"body":"from the SaaS leaders"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":359.08,"endTime":362.29,"body":"perspective, as you get all"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":362.29,"endTime":366.13,"body":"these extra opportunities and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":362.29,"endTime":366.13,"body":"extra deals coming in that, you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":366.13,"endTime":368.92,"body":"know, initially do a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":366.13,"endTime":368.92,"body":"building the affiliate program,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":368.92,"endTime":371.14,"body":"but then the affiliates go out"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":368.92,"endTime":371.14,"body":"and do the work for you kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":371.41,"endTime":375.22,"body":"it kind of makes your your sales"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":371.41,"endTime":375.22,"body":"and marketing arm much bigger,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":375.25,"endTime":375.76,"body":"doesn't it?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":376.62,"endTime":378.48,"body":"yeah. Because in"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":376.62,"endTime":378.48,"body":"the end, you have like an army"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":378.48,"endTime":382.2,"body":"of people recommending you. So"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":378.48,"endTime":382.2,"body":"it's, it's kinda like comparing"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":382.2,"endTime":385.65,"body":"it to SEO, it takes a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":382.2,"endTime":385.65,"body":"time to set it up properly, it"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":385.65,"endTime":388.5,"body":"takes a lot of time to scale it,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":385.65,"endTime":388.5,"body":"but once it's running, it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":388.5,"endTime":391.2,"body":"going to drive consistent"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":388.5,"endTime":391.2,"body":"revenue for yourself. And that's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":391.2,"endTime":393.78,"body":"kind of what happens with"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":391.2,"endTime":393.78,"body":"affiliate marketing as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":395.01,"endTime":397.32,"body":"I love it. I think"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":395.01,"endTime":397.32,"body":"it's fantastic. So tell me, what"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":397.32,"endTime":400.14,"body":"are some of the best strategies"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":397.32,"endTime":400.14,"body":"that software leaders are using"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":400.14,"endTime":402.12,"body":"in order to build strong"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":400.14,"endTime":402.12,"body":"affiliate programs for"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":402.12,"endTime":402.63,"body":"themselves?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":403.35,"endTime":407.58,"body":"yeah. So like,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":403.35,"endTime":407.58,"body":"first of all, it's not a setup"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":407.58,"endTime":411.84,"body":"and forget or laid back kind of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":407.58,"endTime":411.84,"body":"channel. So I think when you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":411.84,"endTime":415.98,"body":"look at strategies, like, it may"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":411.84,"endTime":415.98,"body":"be really obvious, but you have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":415.98,"endTime":418.8,"body":"to spend the time into it, I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":415.98,"endTime":418.8,"body":"guess. So what that kind of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":418.8,"endTime":423.0,"body":"means is like, get the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":418.8,"endTime":423.0,"body":"foundations in order. So if"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":423.0,"endTime":426.18,"body":"you're going to start asking"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":423.0,"endTime":426.18,"body":"somebody else to recommend you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":426.18,"endTime":429.24,"body":"make sure that your website is"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":426.18,"endTime":429.24,"body":"converting really well, you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":429.24,"endTime":432.6,"body":"know, your conversion rates,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":429.24,"endTime":432.6,"body":"like those kinds of basic"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":432.6,"endTime":435.48,"body":"things, you have best practices,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":432.6,"endTime":435.48,"body":"you have case studies. So you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":435.48,"endTime":439.02,"body":"kinda have to sell yourself"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":435.48,"endTime":439.02,"body":"first before you can even ask"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":439.02,"endTime":441.99,"body":"somebody else to sell for you,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":439.02,"endTime":441.99,"body":"right? So nobody's gonna"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":442.02,"endTime":445.8,"body":"recommend a restaurant was just"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":442.02,"endTime":445.8,"body":"opened, nobody has ever eaten"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":445.8,"endTime":450.39,"body":"there, you want to recommend"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":445.8,"endTime":450.39,"body":"something that you truly believe"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":450.39,"endTime":454.41,"body":"in. And that's what affiliates"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":450.39,"endTime":454.41,"body":"want to do as well. Then if you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":454.41,"endTime":458.37,"body":"got I guess, like the foundation"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":454.41,"endTime":458.37,"body":"in order, it also means you have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":458.37,"endTime":462.09,"body":"current users. So your current"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":458.37,"endTime":462.09,"body":"network, like start there,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":462.09,"endTime":464.28,"body":"invite your current network,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":462.09,"endTime":464.28,"body":"they know the value of your"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":464.28,"endTime":466.68,"body":"product, they know exactly what"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":464.28,"endTime":466.68,"body":"you do, they know exactly how to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":466.68,"endTime":469.44,"body":"use you. So from there, it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":466.68,"endTime":469.44,"body":"easy for them to start"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":469.44,"endTime":473.55,"body":"recommending you. And I think"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":469.44,"endTime":473.55,"body":"that the biggest thing, where"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":473.55,"endTime":475.95,"body":"you can make a difference is"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":473.55,"endTime":475.95,"body":"start actively recruiting"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":475.95,"endTime":479.61,"body":"affiliates. There's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":475.95,"endTime":479.61,"body":"strategies out there. But like,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":479.61,"endTime":483.54,"body":"the biggest one is, of course,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":479.61,"endTime":483.54,"body":"the listing articles. Like you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":483.54,"endTime":487.32,"body":"always think like the best, top"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":483.54,"endTime":487.32,"body":"10 CRM tools is always based on"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":487.32,"endTime":492.33,"body":"the actual best top 10. That's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":487.32,"endTime":492.33,"body":"not the case, you're gonna be a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":492.33,"endTime":495.45,"body":"number one, for example, if you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":492.33,"endTime":495.45,"body":"even pay like an upfront fee, or"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":495.45,"endTime":499.17,"body":"you give away commission to the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":495.45,"endTime":499.17,"body":"blogger who wrote the article."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":499.17,"endTime":503.94,"body":"So that's one way of getting"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":499.17,"endTime":503.94,"body":"yourself into listing articles."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":504.0,"endTime":506.52,"body":"And another way is to recruit,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":504.0,"endTime":506.52,"body":"for example, competitor"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":506.52,"endTime":510.06,"body":"affiliates. So probably"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":506.52,"endTime":510.06,"body":"everybody uses to like SEMrush,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":510.06,"endTime":514.35,"body":"or ahrefs do a backlink analysis"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":510.06,"endTime":514.35,"body":"of your competitors, look who's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":514.35,"endTime":516.75,"body":"referring to them with an"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":514.35,"endTime":516.75,"body":"affiliate link and start"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":516.75,"endTime":520.14,"body":"recruiting them as well, because"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":516.75,"endTime":520.14,"body":"in the end, they might have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":520.56,"endTime":523.95,"body":"those blocked, whatever,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":520.56,"endTime":523.95,"body":"recommend multiple tools. So"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":523.95,"endTime":526.41,"body":"it's an easy addition to add you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":523.95,"endTime":526.41,"body":"because they already wrote"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":526.41,"endTime":530.85,"body":"content about the topic you want"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":526.41,"endTime":530.85,"body":"to be listed in. And they"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":530.85,"endTime":532.89,"body":"already know the concept of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":530.85,"endTime":532.89,"body":"affiliate marketing. So it's a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":532.89,"endTime":538.11,"body":"really easy sell. So recruitment"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":532.89,"endTime":538.11,"body":"is definitely a big one as well."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":538.11,"endTime":541.5,"body":"And then, I mean, it's a bit of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":538.11,"endTime":541.5,"body":"a promo, but leverage a network"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":541.5,"endTime":544.62,"body":"like ours, for example, where"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":541.5,"endTime":544.62,"body":"you can tap into already"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":544.62,"endTime":548.49,"body":"existing affiliates within a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":544.62,"endTime":548.49,"body":"network, which is going to help"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":548.49,"endTime":549.48,"body":"you forward as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":550.74,"endTime":552.84,"body":"I love that tell me"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":550.74,"endTime":552.84,"body":"more about that network. Because"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":552.84,"endTime":555.21,"body":"that's something obviously that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":552.84,"endTime":555.21,"body":"a lot of people can see as a big"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":555.21,"endTime":558.54,"body":"benefit if you don't want to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":555.21,"endTime":558.54,"body":"spend a lot of time creating a"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":558.54,"endTime":561.45,"body":"network and trying to go out and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":558.54,"endTime":561.45,"body":"find it. How do you guys help"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":561.45,"endTime":561.93,"body":"with that?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":561.929,"endTime":566.459,"body":"Yeah, so like,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":561.929,"endTime":566.459,"body":"we're the only ones right now we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":566.459,"endTime":569.849,"body":"have a freemium model. And it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":566.459,"endTime":569.849,"body":"like our growth lever as well."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":569.849,"endTime":573.329,"body":"So for example, any SaaS company"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":569.849,"endTime":573.329,"body":"can set up an affiliate program"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":573.329,"endTime":576.989,"body":"with us for free, there's no"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":573.329,"endTime":576.989,"body":"hidden cost at all. But what we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":576.989,"endTime":579.869,"body":"do say then is you have to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":576.989,"endTime":579.869,"body":"invite the affiliate yourself."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":580.199,"endTime":583.739,"body":"So whenever SaaS companies set"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":580.199,"endTime":583.739,"body":"up an affiliate program with us,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":583.769,"endTime":587.249,"body":"they find the affiliates they"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":583.769,"endTime":587.249,"body":"come into the network. And then"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":587.279,"endTime":590.789,"body":"the affiliates who log in can"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":587.279,"endTime":590.789,"body":"basically see a marketplace of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":590.789,"endTime":593.909,"body":"offerings from B2B SaaS"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":590.789,"endTime":593.909,"body":"companies who have an affiliate"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":593.909,"endTime":599.099,"body":"program and then from there they"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":593.909,"endTime":599.099,"body":"can decide to apply and then you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":599.099,"endTime":602.459,"body":"can accept or decline it based"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":599.099,"endTime":602.459,"body":"on The data we provide your data"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":602.459,"endTime":607.289,"body":"provided you basically so at the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":602.459,"endTime":607.289,"body":"moment, we have around 8000 B2B"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":607.289,"endTime":610.709,"body":"SaaS affiliates in the network,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":607.289,"endTime":610.709,"body":"that's when this podcast is"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":610.709,"endTime":614.489,"body":"going out, but like at the end"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":610.709,"endTime":614.489,"body":"of 2024, we expect to have like"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":614.489,"endTime":619.919,"body":"25,000 - 30,000 B2B SaaS"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":614.489,"endTime":619.919,"body":"affiliates in our network. And"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":619.919,"endTime":623.129,"body":"this is also one of the reasons"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":619.919,"endTime":623.129,"body":"why we're now building a two"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":623.129,"endTime":627.569,"body":"sided marketplace where we allow"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":623.129,"endTime":627.569,"body":"SaaS companies to filter church"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":627.869,"endTime":631.199,"body":"and contact those affiliates."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":627.869,"endTime":631.199,"body":"And we're gonna provide them"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":631.199,"endTime":635.069,"body":"with first party data, like"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":631.199,"endTime":635.069,"body":"having affiliates connecting"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":635.069,"endTime":638.849,"body":"Google Analytics, social"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":635.069,"endTime":638.849,"body":"profiles. So that's the biggest"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":639.089,"endTime":643.829,"body":"challenge. Can you actually"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":639.089,"endTime":643.829,"body":"trust the person on the other"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":643.829,"endTime":646.049,"body":"side? And do they have the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":643.829,"endTime":646.049,"body":"traffic they say they have?"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":646.98,"endTime":649.65,"body":"I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":646.98,"endTime":649.65,"body":"big one, me as a as a leader of"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":649.65,"endTime":652.92,"body":"a software company, and somebody"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":649.65,"endTime":652.92,"body":"says, hey, I can promote this. I"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":652.92,"endTime":656.01,"body":"would want to know, like,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":652.92,"endTime":656.01,"body":"actually, would that work? And"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":656.01,"endTime":658.53,"body":"if I actually go through the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":656.01,"endTime":658.53,"body":"effort of spending time getting"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":658.53,"endTime":660.81,"body":"you set up, are you going to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":658.53,"endTime":660.81,"body":"actually deliver anything?"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":660.81,"endTime":661.14,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":662.02,"endTime":664.57,"body":"Yeah. And that's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":662.02,"endTime":664.57,"body":"where a network can help"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":664.57,"endTime":667.87,"body":"because, for example, now, in"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":664.57,"endTime":667.87,"body":"our case, as well, if somebody"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":667.87,"endTime":669.88,"body":"applies to your program, we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":667.87,"endTime":669.88,"body":"would just give you a textual"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":669.88,"endTime":672.73,"body":"information. So you have to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":669.88,"endTime":672.73,"body":"trust the person. 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And if"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":682.39,"endTime":685.87,"body":"there's a fraud as affiliate,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":682.39,"endTime":685.87,"body":"there may be already other SaaS"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":685.87,"endTime":689.14,"body":"companies marked them as as"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":685.87,"endTime":689.14,"body":"fraud, which makes it easy for"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":689.14,"endTime":693.7,"body":"us to spot them, kick them out."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":689.14,"endTime":693.7,"body":"And go forward. So you don't"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":693.7,"endTime":697.42,"body":"have to figure everything out"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":693.7,"endTime":697.42,"body":"yourself. If you're leveraging"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":697.42,"endTime":698.47,"body":"the network, basically."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":699.6,"endTime":702.39,"body":"Yeah, that makes it"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":699.6,"endTime":702.39,"body":"really, really easy. So okay, so"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":702.39,"endTime":706.71,"body":"what challenges are b2b SaaS"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":702.39,"endTime":706.71,"body":"companies facing what, what are"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":706.71,"endTime":710.1,"body":"they seeing? When they try to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":706.71,"endTime":710.1,"body":"set up an affiliate marketing"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":710.1,"endTime":711.45,"body":"program? What are they running"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":710.1,"endTime":711.45,"body":"into?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":712.47,"endTime":714.54,"body":"Yeah, so I've"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":712.47,"endTime":714.54,"body":"mentioned, I mean, we're really,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":714.99,"endTime":717.93,"body":"at the moment, the only one as"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":714.99,"endTime":717.93,"body":"far as I know, who offer like a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":717.93,"endTime":722.01,"body":"freemium model as we do with a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":717.93,"endTime":722.01,"body":"network. So I think like, if"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":722.01,"endTime":724.62,"body":"you're gonna go for the bigger"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":722.01,"endTime":724.62,"body":"networks, you're gonna come up"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":724.62,"endTime":727.44,"body":"with high upfront fees. Like,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":724.62,"endTime":727.44,"body":"that's definitely one challenge"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":727.44,"endTime":731.1,"body":"you're gonna get. But if we go"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":727.44,"endTime":731.1,"body":"past that, I think that the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":731.1,"endTime":734.22,"body":"biggest challenge is always the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":731.1,"endTime":734.22,"body":"recruitment and the activation"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":734.25,"endTime":736.92,"body":"of the affiliates and the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":734.25,"endTime":736.92,"body":"recruitment being the hardest."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":737.31,"endTime":740.37,"body":"I've been doing it myself for"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":737.31,"endTime":740.37,"body":"some of our clients. And like,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":740.37,"endTime":743.55,"body":"It's time consuming. And it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":740.37,"endTime":743.55,"body":"hard to find the right"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":743.55,"endTime":746.46,"body":"affiliates. And then once you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":743.55,"endTime":746.46,"body":"get in contact, you often have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":746.46,"endTime":749.31,"body":"to negotiate deals, because you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":746.46,"endTime":749.31,"body":"want to get the bigger ones in,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":749.31,"endTime":752.28,"body":"but they want to have upfront"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":749.31,"endTime":752.28,"body":"fees or special deals, things"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":752.28,"endTime":756.78,"body":"like that. So recruitment is, is"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":752.28,"endTime":756.78,"body":"hard. And then, as mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":756.78,"endTime":759.87,"body":"like the trust is all also"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":756.78,"endTime":759.87,"body":"tricky, like, is this person"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":759.87,"endTime":763.14,"body":"actually who they say they are?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":759.87,"endTime":763.14,"body":"Do they have the website they"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":763.14,"endTime":766.26,"body":"say they have? Do have the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":763.14,"endTime":766.26,"body":"traffic they say they have? Are"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":766.26,"endTime":769.05,"body":"they going to deliver whatever"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":766.26,"endTime":769.05,"body":"they've been already doing? So I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":769.05,"endTime":772.56,"body":"think that is the biggest"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":769.05,"endTime":772.56,"body":"challenge. Right now. We're"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":772.98,"endTime":776.04,"body":"setting up an affiliate program"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":772.98,"endTime":776.04,"body":"is easy. But getting the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":776.04,"endTime":779.01,"body":"affiliate getting the right"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":776.04,"endTime":779.01,"body":"affiliates in? That's the that's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":779.01,"endTime":779.85,"body":"the hardest part."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":781.049,"endTime":783.629,"body":"Yeah, definitely."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":781.049,"endTime":783.629,"body":"And what about once you've"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":783.629,"endTime":787.829,"body":"gotten them? Is there, is there"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":783.629,"endTime":787.829,"body":"work on going to try and make"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":787.829,"endTime":790.739,"body":"sure they continue to send stuff"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":787.829,"endTime":790.739,"body":"and kind of develop that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":790.739,"endTime":791.669,"body":"relationship further?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":792.0,"endTime":798.03,"body":"Yeah, yeah. So I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":792.0,"endTime":798.03,"body":"mean, it's like, the real 20-80"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":798.03,"endTime":800.85,"body":"rule, like 20% of your"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":798.03,"endTime":800.85,"body":"affiliates will probably drive"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":800.88,"endTime":805.59,"body":"80% of the revenue or the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":800.88,"endTime":805.59,"body":"traffic. So like engaging them"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":805.59,"endTime":810.75,"body":"is going to be really important."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":805.59,"endTime":810.75,"body":"So I would always recommend,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":811.41,"endTime":815.73,"body":"first of all, have like proper"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":811.41,"endTime":815.73,"body":"resources in place. So think"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":815.73,"endTime":818.91,"body":"about it in a way where if you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":815.73,"endTime":818.91,"body":"get the affiliation, what do you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":818.91,"endTime":821.91,"body":"want them to do? How would you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":818.91,"endTime":821.91,"body":"want them to promote you? And"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":821.91,"endTime":824.85,"body":"are you able to deliver, give"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":821.91,"endTime":824.85,"body":"them all the resources they need"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":825.21,"endTime":829.44,"body":"to actually do so? So if you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":825.21,"endTime":829.44,"body":"want them to add banners on the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":829.44,"endTime":831.87,"body":"website, can you already provide"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":829.44,"endTime":831.87,"body":"them if you want them to write"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":831.87,"endTime":834.69,"body":"content, can you provide them as"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":831.87,"endTime":834.69,"body":"much content as possible, so it"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":834.69,"endTime":838.74,"body":"makes it easy for them to start"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":834.69,"endTime":838.74,"body":"recommending you? You almost"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":839.07,"endTime":841.65,"body":"kind of want to do the work for"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":839.07,"endTime":841.65,"body":"them. Because then there's no"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":841.65,"endTime":844.11,"body":"friction, they have the network"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":841.65,"endTime":844.11,"body":"you're looking for, they have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":844.11,"endTime":847.68,"body":"the traffic you're looking for."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":844.11,"endTime":847.68,"body":"And then from there, you can"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":847.68,"endTime":850.05,"body":"build a relationship, because"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":847.68,"endTime":850.05,"body":"the more frequently you add, I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":850.05,"endTime":852.99,"body":"guess, for them to figure out"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":850.05,"endTime":852.99,"body":"who you are what you can offer,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":853.05,"endTime":857.01,"body":"how can they sell you then the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":853.05,"endTime":857.01,"body":"less likely they are going to do"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":857.01,"endTime":860.7,"body":"something and it's the metric"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":857.01,"endTime":860.7,"body":"you're always using"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":860.7,"endTime":863.67,"body":"Seismographic time to value,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":860.7,"endTime":863.67,"body":"like the affiliates want to make"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":863.67,"endTime":866.31,"body":"money quickly. And once they"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":863.67,"endTime":866.31,"body":"started making money, they're"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":866.31,"endTime":870.9,"body":"more likely to keep referring"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":866.31,"endTime":870.9,"body":"you so help them to get their"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":870.9,"endTime":874.68,"body":"first money and so let them know"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":870.9,"endTime":874.68,"body":"what other affiliates have been"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":874.68,"endTime":878.34,"body":"doing. Let them know what is"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":874.68,"endTime":878.34,"body":"working and then from there,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":878.34,"endTime":885.42,"body":"educate them on how to actually"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":878.34,"endTime":885.42,"body":"sell you. You really have to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":885.42,"endTime":888.51,"body":"help them to make money and of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":885.42,"endTime":888.51,"body":"course they're making you money."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":888.51,"endTime":890.46,"body":"But if you think of it like"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":888.51,"endTime":890.46,"body":"that, how can I help my"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":890.46,"endTime":893.43,"body":"affiliate to make money and"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":890.46,"endTime":893.43,"body":"you're going to be better as"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":893.0,"endTime":898.07,"body":"I love that. kind"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":893.0,"endTime":898.07,"body":"of you're coaching them on using"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":893.43,"endTime":893.82,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":898.07,"endTime":901.34,"body":"the best practices that others"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":898.07,"endTime":901.34,"body":"have used to sell your products."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":901.34,"endTime":905.63,"body":"You're almost kind of almost"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":901.34,"endTime":905.63,"body":"training your your sales arm"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":905.66,"endTime":909.11,"body":"essentially, it's not a direct"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":905.66,"endTime":909.11,"body":"salesperson, their indirect it's"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":909.11,"endTime":912.11,"body":"a third party. But nonetheless"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":909.11,"endTime":912.11,"body":"you're kind of bringing them up"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":912.11,"endTime":914.75,"body":"to speed and making sure they"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":912.11,"endTime":914.75,"body":"understand fully how to get you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":914.75,"endTime":917.81,"body":"out there and how to sell you."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":914.75,"endTime":917.81,"body":"And that's how you can have the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":917.81,"endTime":919.4,"body":"best market right and best"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":917.81,"endTime":919.4,"body":"network."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":919.83,"endTime":922.44,"body":"Yeah, yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":919.83,"endTime":922.44,"body":"like almost getting an army of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":922.44,"endTime":925.05,"body":"salespeople out there and you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":922.44,"endTime":925.05,"body":"just have to educate them"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":925.05,"endTime":927.66,"body":"probably in bulk, like he can't"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":925.05,"endTime":927.66,"body":"jump on calls with everybody,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":927.66,"endTime":931.68,"body":"they probably don't want to do"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":927.66,"endTime":931.68,"body":"either. So make sure you set up"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":931.68,"endTime":933.72,"body":"like an onboarding sequence,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":931.68,"endTime":933.72,"body":"kind of like you have for your"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":933.72,"endTime":937.83,"body":"app, and make sure that you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":933.72,"endTime":937.83,"body":"educate them against the value"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":937.83,"endTime":940.41,"body":"they're trying to achieve, which"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":937.83,"endTime":940.41,"body":"is making money."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":941.47,"endTime":944.11,"body":"I love that. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":941.47,"endTime":944.11,"body":"with your own company getting"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":944.11,"endTime":946.57,"body":"this set up, I mean, Reditus"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":944.11,"endTime":946.57,"body":"you've done really well. But how"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":946.57,"endTime":949.63,"body":"did you get some of your early"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":946.57,"endTime":949.63,"body":"customers? How did you convince"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":949.63,"endTime":951.34,"body":"people in the beginning to start"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":949.63,"endTime":951.34,"body":"with you?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":951.33,"endTime":953.952,"body":"Yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":951.33,"endTime":953.952,"body":"we're a marketplace, so the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":954.016,"endTime":958.174,"body":"beginning, I think is always the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":954.016,"endTime":958.174,"body":"hardest part. So what we did was"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":954.48,"endTime":995.94,"body":"I love it. And then now that"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":954.48,"endTime":995.94,"body":"you're more in your growth"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":958.238,"endTime":962.332,"body":"an AppSumo launch. So we did it"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":958.238,"endTime":962.332,"body":"a couple years back now already,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":962.396,"endTime":966.043,"body":"where we just launched on"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":962.396,"endTime":966.043,"body":"AppSumo, to get like, first the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":966.107,"endTime":970.265,"body":"SaaS offering side in there. And"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":966.107,"endTime":970.265,"body":"then from there, they started to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":970.329,"endTime":974.295,"body":"invite affiliates. And then now"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":970.329,"endTime":974.295,"body":"we're at a good point where we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":974.359,"endTime":978.069,"body":"have a nice combination. But"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":974.359,"endTime":978.069,"body":"that was the way where we got"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":978.133,"endTime":981.524,"body":"our first users in as a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":978.133,"endTime":981.524,"body":"marketplace, I, it would have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":981.588,"endTime":985.362,"body":"taken us a lot longer if we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":981.588,"endTime":985.362,"body":"haven't done that. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":985.426,"endTime":989.136,"body":"if I would do it again, if I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":985.426,"endTime":989.136,"body":"started another SaaS. But for"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":989.2,"endTime":992.399,"body":"us, that was a good way to get"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":989.2,"endTime":992.399,"body":"the first users in."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":995.94,"endTime":998.58,"body":"phase, so what are some of the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":995.94,"endTime":998.58,"body":"plans that you have for Reditus"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":998.58,"endTime":1001.58,"body":"as in terms of expanding and"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":998.58,"endTime":1001.58,"body":"growing this platform?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1001.0,"endTime":1002.23,"body":"we've been fully focusing on"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1001.0,"endTime":1002.23,"body":"organic channels. So I run for"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1002.23,"endTime":1006.91,"body":"example, my own podcast as well,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1002.23,"endTime":1006.91,"body":"where you're going to be soon on"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1006.91,"endTime":1014.2,"body":"like we do our SEO, really"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1006.91,"endTime":1014.2,"body":"active on LinkedIn, kind of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1014.32,"endTime":1019.75,"body":"purely focused on that, on our"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1014.32,"endTime":1019.75,"body":"own affiliate Marketing Channels"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1019.75,"endTime":1024.19,"body":"as well, of course. We have our"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1019.75,"endTime":1024.19,"body":"own program. But I think like as"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1024.19,"endTime":1027.07,"body":"soon as we launched the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1024.19,"endTime":1027.07,"body":"marketplace, we will start"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1027.07,"endTime":1034.45,"body":"experimenting with paid ads cold"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1027.07,"endTime":1034.45,"body":"outreach, but last year,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1034.72,"endTime":1039.58,"body":"December, so it was 2022, we ran"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1034.72,"endTime":1039.58,"body":"into a lot of bugs, we ran into"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1039.58,"endTime":1043.72,"body":"a lot of issues with scaling,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1039.58,"endTime":1043.72,"body":"basically. So we ended up"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1043.99,"endTime":1047.5,"body":"revamping the product for six"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1043.99,"endTime":1047.5,"body":"months getting the basics back"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1047.5,"endTime":1052.57,"body":"in order. Yeah, like at one"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1047.5,"endTime":1052.57,"body":"point, we didn't know why a bug"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1052.57,"endTime":1055.27,"body":"was happening, like a button"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1052.57,"endTime":1055.27,"body":"didn't work. But we didn't know"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1055.27,"endTime":1058.33,"body":"if it was the back end, or the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1055.27,"endTime":1058.33,"body":"front end code was all mixed up."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1058.33,"endTime":1064.48,"body":"So we separated them completely."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1058.33,"endTime":1064.48,"body":"So it's now really nice, and my"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1064.48,"endTime":1068.44,"body":"developers are really happy. We"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1064.48,"endTime":1068.44,"body":"did a product launch in June, we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1068.44,"endTime":1071.08,"body":"got product out today. And after"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1068.44,"endTime":1071.08,"body":"that the growth finally kicked"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1071.08,"endTime":1078.52,"body":"in how I wanted. So now we can"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1071.08,"endTime":1078.52,"body":"get like the final foundation in"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1078.52,"endTime":1080.89,"body":"order. And then like we need to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1078.52,"endTime":1080.89,"body":"get our conversion rates in"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1080.89,"endTime":1083.23,"body":"order, we need to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1080.89,"endTime":1083.23,"body":"we can actually track certain"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1083.23,"endTime":1086.44,"body":"things. And after that, we're"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1083.23,"endTime":1086.44,"body":"going to scale with other things"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1086.44,"endTime":1089.41,"body":"like paid ads, etc. Like that's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1086.44,"endTime":1089.41,"body":"going to be our next step for"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1089.41,"endTime":1089.83,"body":"growth."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1090.83,"endTime":1092.9,"body":"Good for you for"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1090.83,"endTime":1092.9,"body":"realizing you needed to kind of"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1092.9,"endTime":1095.93,"body":"refactor the site and the app"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1092.9,"endTime":1095.93,"body":"and kind of get back to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1096.17,"endTime":1098.15,"body":"something that was going to be"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1096.17,"endTime":1098.15,"body":"really helpful. That's a hard"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1098.15,"endTime":1100.31,"body":"decision, because it feels like"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1098.15,"endTime":1100.31,"body":"you're kind of going backwards,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1100.31,"endTime":1103.64,"body":"but it allows you to accelerate."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1100.31,"endTime":1103.64,"body":"So kudos on doing that."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1104.0,"endTime":1106.25,"body":"Yeah, it's a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1104.0,"endTime":1106.25,"body":"painful decision. Because like,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1106.25,"endTime":1108.74,"body":"basically, you're putting your"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1106.25,"endTime":1108.74,"body":"MRR (Monthly Recurring Revenue)"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1108.95,"endTime":1112.01,"body":"Almost on pause, like you have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1108.95,"endTime":1112.01,"body":"your clients you might have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1112.01,"endTime":1114.14,"body":"secure and you might have some"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1112.01,"endTime":1114.14,"body":"new clients coming in. But you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1114.14,"endTime":1116.72,"body":"know, that the app you're"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1114.14,"endTime":1116.72,"body":"working with, I mean, people"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1116.72,"endTime":1120.08,"body":"were happier, like the, we saw"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1116.72,"endTime":1120.08,"body":"more of the issues than the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1120.08,"endTime":1124.25,"body":"users experience, but we knew"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1120.08,"endTime":1124.25,"body":"this was needed. And if we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1124.25,"endTime":1127.97,"body":"didn't do it back then then it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1124.25,"endTime":1127.97,"body":"just gonna create so many bigger"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1127.97,"endTime":1128.9,"body":"issues later on."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1129.8,"endTime":1132.11,"body":"Yeah, yeah, for"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1129.8,"endTime":1132.11,"body":"sure. And I also like what you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1132.11,"endTime":1136.97,"body":"said earlier, I hope everybody"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1132.11,"endTime":1136.97,"body":"picked up on it, you're using"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1136.97,"endTime":1139.46,"body":"marketing channels now and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1136.97,"endTime":1139.46,"body":"you're trying to refine them and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1139.46,"endTime":1141.62,"body":"get better at them. And you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1139.46,"endTime":1141.62,"body":"mentioned your podcast, let's"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1141.62,"endTime":1143.45,"body":"plug plug the podcast, what's"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1141.62,"endTime":1143.45,"body":"the name of it,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1143.99,"endTime":1145.43,"body":"Grow your B2B"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1143.99,"endTime":1145.43,"body":"SaaS,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1145.78,"endTime":1148.39,"body":"Grow your B2B SaaS,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1145.78,"endTime":1148.39,"body":"perfect. So exactly like what"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1148.39,"endTime":1150.88,"body":"we're trying to do here as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1148.39,"endTime":1150.88,"body":"So I know that some of the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1150.88,"endTime":1153.46,"body":"people he's had on the show"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1150.88,"endTime":1153.46,"body":"there are great. So definitely"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1153.46,"endTime":1156.88,"body":"go check that podcast out as"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1153.46,"endTime":1156.88,"body":"well. But I love that you're"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1157.09,"endTime":1159.88,"body":"really making sure that each of"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1157.09,"endTime":1159.88,"body":"these channels works. And then"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1159.88,"endTime":1161.77,"body":"like you said, once that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1159.88,"endTime":1161.77,"body":"happens, now you're going to add"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1161.77,"endTime":1164.05,"body":"a channel. Now we get that right"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1161.77,"endTime":1164.05,"body":"now we're going to add a channel"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1164.08,"endTime":1166.57,"body":"that you said, we're going to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1164.08,"endTime":1166.57,"body":"start doing this. And you start"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1166.57,"endTime":1169.54,"body":"creating all of these different"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1166.57,"endTime":1169.54,"body":"ways for people to find you. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1169.81,"endTime":1172.6,"body":"it starts to really ramp up the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1169.81,"endTime":1172.6,"body":"lead generation, but you're"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1172.6,"endTime":1177.31,"body":"making sure you've optimized the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1172.6,"endTime":1177.31,"body":"ones you have first. And what"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1177.31,"endTime":1180.94,"body":"you said earlier kind of touches"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1177.31,"endTime":1180.94,"body":"this as well. You're making sure"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1180.94,"endTime":1183.52,"body":"your conversion is working."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1180.94,"endTime":1183.52,"body":"You're making sure the website"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1183.52,"endTime":1185.77,"body":"is good. You're making sure and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1183.52,"endTime":1185.77,"body":"by the way, this is something I"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1185.77,"endTime":1188.56,"body":"work on with my clients as well."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1185.77,"endTime":1188.56,"body":"Those of you who've been"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1188.56,"endTime":1191.5,"body":"clients, those of you thinking"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1188.56,"endTime":1191.5,"body":"about is when we look at, hey,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1191.5,"endTime":1194.29,"body":"if you're going to start ramping"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1191.5,"endTime":1194.29,"body":"up marketing, let's make sure we"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1194.29,"endTime":1197.41,"body":"can actually close those leads"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1194.29,"endTime":1197.41,"body":"that we generate. We're going to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1197.41,"endTime":1200.32,"body":"put money and effort into"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1197.41,"endTime":1200.32,"body":"marketing. Let's make Sure are"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1200.32,"endTime":1204.19,"body":"closing process is fantastic. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1200.32,"endTime":1204.19,"body":"we feel good about putting that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1204.19,"endTime":1206.77,"body":"money and effort into the"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1204.19,"endTime":1206.77,"body":"marketing. I love that you said"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1206.77,"endTime":1208.99,"body":"that earlier. Just wanted to"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1206.77,"endTime":1208.99,"body":"highlight that. But I totally"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1208.99,"endTime":1210.04,"body":"agree with all that Joran."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1210.6,"endTime":1213.99,"body":"yeah, I think I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1210.6,"endTime":1213.99,"body":"mean, like, personally, we're"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1213.99,"endTime":1217.29,"body":"still bootstrapped. But I think"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1213.99,"endTime":1217.29,"body":"once we're bigger than, like"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1217.29,"endTime":1219.81,"body":"getting somebody like yourself"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1217.29,"endTime":1219.81,"body":"and getting the foundation in"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1219.81,"endTime":1222.57,"body":"order, I think it's crucial"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1219.81,"endTime":1222.57,"body":"before you even start putting"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1222.57,"endTime":1227.19,"body":"money in paid ads or bigger, I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1222.57,"endTime":1227.19,"body":"guess, like, marketing"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1227.19,"endTime":1228.18,"body":"resources."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1229.11,"endTime":1233.4,"body":"Yeah exactly. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1229.11,"endTime":1233.4,"body":"just like your inset, if you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1233.4,"endTime":1235.8,"body":"want to do that, call me. Nice"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1233.4,"endTime":1235.8,"body":"plug. Thanks Joran, I appreciate"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1235.8,"endTime":1242.49,"body":"it. No, but Okay, so if somebody"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1235.8,"endTime":1242.49,"body":"is a software leader, they're"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1242.49,"endTime":1245.19,"body":"kind of early stage and they"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1242.49,"endTime":1245.19,"body":"feel like we need an affiliate"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1245.19,"endTime":1248.91,"body":"program. What advice would you"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1245.19,"endTime":1248.91,"body":"have for them as they get that"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1248.91,"endTime":1249.3,"body":"started?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1250.38,"endTime":1253.56,"body":"Yeah, so I mean,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1250.38,"endTime":1253.56,"body":"if their earliest stage, I kind"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1253.56,"endTime":1256.8,"body":"of say, like, don't start unless"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1253.56,"endTime":1256.8,"body":"you have 10k monthly recurring"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1256.8,"endTime":1260.25,"body":"revenue with an affiliate"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1256.8,"endTime":1260.25,"body":"program or unless, like, your"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1260.25,"endTime":1264.18,"body":"clients really are asking for"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1260.25,"endTime":1264.18,"body":"it. Because I think the most"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1264.18,"endTime":1267.96,"body":"common mistakes people think is"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1264.18,"endTime":1267.96,"body":"that it's a way to get your"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1267.96,"endTime":1270.99,"body":"first clients in, as mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1267.96,"endTime":1270.99,"body":"like get your foundation in"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1270.99,"endTime":1274.35,"body":"order, like, are you going to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1270.99,"endTime":1274.35,"body":"recommend a SaaS company where"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1274.35,"endTime":1276.51,"body":"you know that they don't have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1274.35,"endTime":1276.51,"body":"any clients, and you're not"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1276.51,"endTime":1279.12,"body":"actually sure if they can"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1276.51,"endTime":1279.12,"body":"deliver what they say they are."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1279.6,"endTime":1281.82,"body":"And they haven't sold"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1279.6,"endTime":1281.82,"body":"themselves, like, probably not."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1283.47,"endTime":1286.56,"body":"And also don't think it's like a"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1283.47,"endTime":1286.56,"body":"magical bullet, like, again,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1286.59,"endTime":1292.41,"body":"compared to SEO, it takes time."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1286.59,"endTime":1292.41,"body":"And it takes effort. So when we"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1292.41,"endTime":1296.64,"body":"do say, Okay, we're gonna get"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1292.41,"endTime":1296.64,"body":"started, then make sure you pick"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1296.64,"endTime":1299.67,"body":"out the right tool, because it's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1296.64,"endTime":1299.67,"body":"like, almost like picking a CRM"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1299.67,"endTime":1302.28,"body":"system, you're not going to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1299.67,"endTime":1302.28,"body":"switch, because the affiliates"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1302.28,"endTime":1305.07,"body":"are gonna get onboarded, they're"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1302.28,"endTime":1305.07,"body":"gonna get their links to kind of"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1305.07,"endTime":1308.19,"body":"put them out there. So it's hard"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1305.07,"endTime":1308.19,"body":"to switch later on. So make sure"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1308.19,"endTime":1311.25,"body":"you make I guess, like an"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1308.19,"endTime":1311.25,"body":"educated decision where you're"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1311.25,"endTime":1315.75,"body":"going to go for. And again, I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1311.25,"endTime":1315.75,"body":"mean, I'm really biased. But I"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1315.75,"endTime":1320.43,"body":"would always go for a tool which"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1315.75,"endTime":1320.43,"body":"has a network, just because you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1320.43,"endTime":1323.52,"body":"can grow outside of your own"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1320.43,"endTime":1323.52,"body":"network. Because if you're going"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1323.52,"endTime":1326.67,"body":"to work in a silo, as I always"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1323.52,"endTime":1326.67,"body":"call it, you have to do all the"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1326.67,"endTime":1330.54,"body":"work yourself. And at one point,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1326.67,"endTime":1330.54,"body":"like you're, if you are growing"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1330.54,"endTime":1333.45,"body":"it, you're going to be exhausted"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1330.54,"endTime":1333.45,"body":"from your network. So make sure"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1333.78,"endTime":1336.57,"body":"that piece is in place within"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1333.78,"endTime":1336.57,"body":"the tool you're going to choose."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1337.65,"endTime":1340.38,"body":"And, yeah, make sure you have"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1337.65,"endTime":1340.38,"body":"time for it to actually grow it."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1341.22,"endTime":1343.8,"body":"Educate the affiliates, make"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1341.22,"endTime":1343.8,"body":"sure you have the resources"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1343.8,"endTime":1347.19,"body":"available. So whenever you did,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1343.8,"endTime":1347.19,"body":"for example, paid ads yourself,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1347.64,"endTime":1350.07,"body":"you have looked at your"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1347.64,"endTime":1350.07,"body":"conversion rates, hopefully, you"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1350.07,"endTime":1353.46,"body":"have resources, which you used,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1350.07,"endTime":1353.46,"body":"you know, which keywords are"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1353.46,"endTime":1359.37,"body":"working, you know, that things"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1353.46,"endTime":1359.37,"body":"have been converting or not. So"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1359.37,"endTime":1361.38,"body":"you know, your conversion rate."},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1359.37,"endTime":1361.38,"body":"So if you have done, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1361.38,"endTime":1363.6,"body":"like some of these things"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1361.38,"endTime":1363.6,"body":"yourself, it's gonna be a lot"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1363.63,"endTime":1366.51,"body":"easier to start a channel like"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1363.63,"endTime":1366.51,"body":"affiliate marketing."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1367.68,"endTime":1370.14,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1367.68,"endTime":1370.14,"body":"awesome advice. I hope everybody"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1370.14,"endTime":1372.72,"body":"was taking notes there. And"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1370.14,"endTime":1372.72,"body":"Joran this has been really,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1372.72,"endTime":1375.3,"body":"really awesome. I want to make"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1372.72,"endTime":1375.3,"body":"sure everybody knows if they"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1375.3,"endTime":1378.63,"body":"need to set that network up. How"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1375.3,"endTime":1378.63,"body":"did they get in touch with you?"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1378.63,"endTime":1380.82,"body":"Or  Reditus how can they learn"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1378.63,"endTime":1380.82,"body":"more?"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1380.0,"endTime":1383.45,"body":"I mean, there's"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1380.0,"endTime":1383.45,"body":"only one Joran Hofman on"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1383.45,"endTime":1386.78,"body":"LinkedIn. So that's going to be"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1383.45,"endTime":1386.78,"body":"easy. And otherwise, just go to"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1386.81,"endTime":1390.62,"body":"getreditus.com. There's live"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1386.81,"endTime":1390.62,"body":"chat support on the site. I'm"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1390.62,"endTime":1393.17,"body":"even behind there as well. So"},{"speaker":"Joran Hofman","startTime":1390.62,"endTime":1393.17,"body":"you can just you can just"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1393.0,"endTime":1397.14,"body":"Perfect. We'll put"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1393.0,"endTime":1397.14,"body":"all that into the show notes. So"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1393.17,"endTime":1393.86,"body":"contact me there."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1397.14,"endTime":1399.12,"body":"if you're listening, make sure"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1397.14,"endTime":1399.12,"body":"you check that out. And you can"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1399.12,"endTime":1401.22,"body":"go see Joran and Reditus and"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1399.12,"endTime":1401.22,"body":"make sure you're getting your"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1401.22,"endTime":1404.43,"body":"affiliate marketing all set up."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1401.22,"endTime":1404.43,"body":"He's Joran Hoffman, it's Reditus"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1404.52,"endTime":1406.86,"body":"the company Thank you very much"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1404.52,"endTime":1406.86,"body":"for coming on the show Joran."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1407.37,"endTime":1410.64,"body":"Thank you for having me, Matt."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1407.37,"endTime":1410.64,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. And everybody"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1410.64,"endTime":1413.1,"body":"else out there. Thank you for"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1410.64,"endTime":1413.1,"body":"being there. By the way, we are"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1413.1,"endTime":1416.16,"body":"asking for reviews. If you are"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1413.1,"endTime":1416.16,"body":"thinking that this is helpful."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1416.16,"endTime":1418.95,"body":"If you think that your liking"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1416.16,"endTime":1418.95,"body":"scale your SaaS, please give us"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1418.95,"endTime":1421.68,"body":"a review. I'd really appreciate"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1418.95,"endTime":1421.68,"body":"it that will show other people"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1421.68,"endTime":1423.72,"body":"that this is something that can"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1421.68,"endTime":1423.72,"body":"help them as well. So you're"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1423.72,"endTime":1426.81,"body":"doing a service for everybody."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1423.72,"endTime":1426.81,"body":"But thank you for being here,"},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1426.84,"endTime":1428.28,"body":"and we'll see you next time."},{"speaker":"Matt Wolach","startTime":1426.84,"endTime":1428.28,"body":"Take care"}]}