Inside Publishing
The Society of Young Publishers are pleased to present Inside Publishing, the podcast series interviewing industry experts on everything publishing.
Inside Publishing
Interview with Ama Badu, commissioning editor at Faber
In this episode, Gemma interviews Ama Badu, commissioning editor of children’s and YA fiction at Faber and Faber. We talk about the collaboration between authors, illustrators and publishers, and the journey of a book to acquisition. We discuss the FAB Prize and what makes for a prize-winning entry. Ama gives advice on working in children’s publishing, and for those seeking a career change into the industry.
Ama Badu:
LinkedIn https://uk.linkedin.com/in/ama-badu
Instagram @noir.renaissance
Faber:
Instagram @faberchildrens
The FAB Prize: https://www.faber.co.uk/about-faber/the-fab-prize/?srsltid=AfmBOooWaNxvC_Gg8yPfuu7o_icLkwirgoboEBvyMGMa4ga8Bb8Mdx3o
Books mentioned:
My Hair - Hannah Lee (author), Allen Fatimaharan (illustrator)
The Rapping Princess - Hannah Lee (author), Allen Fatimaharan (illustrator)
Bad Queer - Gayathiri Kamalakanthan
Faber Illustrated Classics
Lost Love Songs - Ingrid Persaud
Glasgow Boys - Margaret McDonald
Nikki Giovanni, Poems: 1968-2020
Episode transcript:
https://otter.ai/u/DXwhe3lTCH8FA4rmb37zp0Cv5aE?utm_source=copy_url
Hosted and edited by Gemma Jackson (SYP London Podcast Officer)
Instagram @syp_london
X @SYP_UK
Website https://thesyp.org.uk
If you have any questions about this episode or wish to partake in the show, drop us a line at podcast.syp@gmail.com
Hi everyone. My name is Gemma, and I'm the podcast officer for SYP London. Today, I'll be speaking to Ama Badu, commissioning editor at Faber. We talk about collaboration between authors, illustrators and publishers, and the journey of a book to acquisition. We discuss the fab prize and what makes for a prize winning entry. Ama gives advice on working in children's publishing, and for those seeking a career change into the industry. I hope you enjoy. Just to start us off, could you introduce yourself and your current role?
Ama Badu:Yeah, of course. I am Ama Badu. I am the commissioning editor at Faber. I work on the children's team acquiring from picture books all the way up until ya.
Gemma Jackson:So how did you get into that role? Like, what was your journey into publishing like?
Ama Badu:Yeah, it's it wasn't the traditional journey. I started first working in education. I worked for a company called explore learning. I worked for them for about seven years and became one of their assistant directors and launched a center near to where I am now. And the beauty of that was that we were really engaging with children on maths and literacy. So we'd go into Waterstones and books shops, and we would hold events and encourage, for me, the biggest part, the biggest thing for me, most importantly for me, was encouraging children to read. A lot of the children that I worked with had special educational needs or were just a little bit behind in school, and so their confidence was often impacted by that. I'd have children come to me and say, Oh, Miss I'm not a reader, and I got to know them quite well, so I'd suggest a book. And it takes just one book for them to absolutely fall in love with reading. That's a really special thing, I think, to be able to see and of course, teachers and librarians, those who work with kids and engage with kids, do such an amazing job of that. Alongside that, I was also the features editor of a magazine called Glam Africa. We published here in the US and across the African continent, including Nigeria, Ghana, South Africa, Kenya, a very different skill set, but it this role, sort of felt like these two roles coming together. I am graduated in uni in 2018 and I wanted to change at that point I'd been with Glam Africa for about five years in explore learning for about seven years, and I studied English at uni, but I didn't actually think about publishing. I knew I wanted to do something different. I wanted to do something creative, but I didn't quite know where I wanted to be. And I saw a role on creative access, just an amazing organization. They do really powerful, impactful work in this industry and across the creative industry, but they had an internship going at Faber in the children's team. It was for three months. They were looking for someone, I thought, who had less experience, who was fresh out of unis. I remember going into the interview room. I'm a bit of an overachiever, but I remember being sat amongst my peers and realizing, because I'd been working for so long and had to, like, find myself through uni, my experience was very different, and I really thought this would not work to my advantage, but it was great. I got the next round of interview I and yeah, I started off as an intern. Three months in the world fell apart. I went into lockdown. There was so much going on, but I really I felt that the team I was working with felt almost like kindred spirits. I think there was a really lovely synergy with how we worked. And I was really glad to be able to stay on, first in a freelance position and then in a full time role, and I've just worked on from there. It's been five years, but so much has happened and shifted and changed in that time.
Gemma Jackson:Yeah, for the internship, was it like editorial? So have you been like an editorial all the way through, or have you able to see glimpses into other departments? Yeah.
Ama Badu:So it was pitched as a traineeship across the team, and so I would spend days in different departments. They were also really good at that, sort of introducing you to different departments when you first joined. So I had meetings with production and rights and comms. I took meetings with the adult side of the list as well, and all of that gave me a really helpful overview. I have always been very bookish, I read, I write, I do all of that, but I never had thought about a career in publishing before seeing this internship, and I kind of it felt. Yeah, it felt like, well, why hadn't I considered this sooner? Why hadn't I? Why hadn't I thought about this? And I'm sure we'll go into a conversation about how mysterious and elusive the industry can be, and there's a lot of work being done to demystify it, but yeah, I got to see across the departments and also get a five and a feel of what I wanted. I started an editorial because I'd worked in editor previously,but actually, the more I looked at other departments, the more I saw just the breadth of that. I think editorial is the one that people see, and it's quite glamorized. It isn't, but it appears that way. But actually there's so much fun, exciting, very different sort of skill sets required across the departments. And yeah. So for example, I have a lot of very interesting conversations. I think they're interesting with production, about things like paper. It's very literally about the grammage, how thick it is, how wide it is, how yellow it is, like it's all of these minute details that come together across the departments that end up with this finished product. And each department does something so different, has such a different experience of the book itself, but it's such an interesting way of thinking about, yeah, the finished product, as well as the sort of creative side of the idea of the product that first starts and then seeing it through to the end.
Gemma Jackson:So what's the process of like, acquiring a book like?
Ama Badu:So it starts really with that first read. We get sent lots of books. Well, manuscripts get sent lots of manuscripts, and it's really a process of going through everything and finding something that aligns with you and aligns with your list. There are many times where I've read something that was just so gorgeous but wasn't right for our list, and other times, it's again, beautiful or really well executed, but is going to compete with a title we either have already we're working on. So there's all these things that go into consideration. You can read something and love it and it can still not be quite right for where you are. But I I've learned along the years that actually, at every point you're talking about a book, it's so key. So from that first moment, I read a book and I love I communicate that to my team editorially, who will then read, and we will discuss as to whether we want to progress it. At that point, we'll loop in comms, we'll loop in sales, and have a conversation as they're saying, this is the best thing I've ever read, and I think we need on the list of this reasons. This is what the market is doing that looks similar. This is where the gap in the market is, and it's weaving all these ideas together. But at each point talking about this book with such enthusiasm, because if you can build it within first, it spreads amongst the team, and then it goes out into the wider vision for it. We then go to an acquisitions meeting, which is, I want to I say all the big wigs, but it's, it's also the heads of departments coming together and having fed through and very big impact from sales they're fed through, have read or dipped into the book, and also give feedback too. And at that point, we'll decide, okay, can we go forward with this? What are, what levels can we go forward with? What? What money can we put behind it? How many are we going to do in our print run? What is our ambition for this title? And then I take that information, I make it look as beautiful as I can, and then I pitch it back to the agent, and I say, look, I really love this. Our team really loves this. We love for it to come to us. At that point, I'll share that with the author, if you've got a particularly good agent, they will put pressure on other houses and say, look, we've got an offer in. You need to read this now, now, now, or you're going to miss out. And then, if they're really good, they'll get an auction going, which is where they get multiple offers in. And if that does happen, each of us have first deadline, a second deadline, sometimes the third deadline where we finesse our approach and we really woo both author and the agent. And then once we've acquired it, we all sort of celebrate and be like, oh my goodness, yes. But of course, in publishing, we work so far in advance. So for example, now we are in July '25 I am acquiring for '27, '28. That's sort of how far ahead we're working.
Gemma Jackson:How do you like pulse on what might be the future of what, like, children's publishing, everything? How do you know what, predict what's going to come next? Yeah.
Ama Badu:I think a lot of it is trusting the gut. Your gut. You can see sort of trends emerging by what's going on, but actually that changes so quickly. So when I first started in 2025 no one was buying YA, because apparently YA did not sell here, right? The focus was on middle grade books. Now I'm looking at this market because actually I came in thinking oh my goodness YA must be doing so well. I'm seeing all these great books, and actually, in house and across publishers, the conversations around YA was so different.Five years later, no one can get enough of YA. YA is everywhere. But what's interesting is that five years ago, middle grade was the focus, and now, because YA is the focus. Middle Grade is also shifting. I'm really interested though, and connected to your question. I'm really interested in longevity beyond our time. What does it mean? I often question, in 100 years from now, when people are studying, you know, children's literature at uni, what are the books they're going to be talking about what ones are going to have the most impact, and I think excellent and exceptional storytelling is always, always going to be valued, and it is timeless. So part of it is guessing, which I'm phrasing as trusting your gut, but also part of it is really believing in the story that's being told, believing in the writing. And trusting your intuition, we have enough information from what has sold previously. We have enough information of what the projections can be. But actually, those aren't guarantees. And there are so many books that kind of maybe seem quieter to begin with, and years later, and we saw this a lot in the last five years with like Tiktok sensation books, you know, it just, it's so word of mouth that you can have the confidence that something is either going to do really well or maybe has a different priority, and they can exceed and surpass that every single time. But I think the thing that is consistent is that great stories are great stories.
Gemma Jackson:Yeah, definitely. I suppose this is a good point to talk about the FAB prize. So could you explain what it is and how it began?
Ama Badu:Absolutely, so we are now in our I believe eighth year of the fab prize, or it may be the ninth. I should know this in my head, but the thinking at the time, and this is before 2020, this is before the murder of George Floyd, that there is so much change that is needed in the industry, so that the books that we can see are reflective of the experiences of all readers, not just tailored to a certain kind. The FAB prize in particular focuses on the racial bias that we see in our industry, and encourages debut writers and illustrators of color to show us their work. And the beauty of it is we, we have our winners every year, but actually being first place, second place, commended, highly commended. It doesn't matter where you place. We have a track record of people then going on to sign on and get book deals, either with us or with other houses. Those books then become award winning. They become best sellers. And it's such an invigorating thing to meet someone at the very beginning of their journey and see them and see them then saw and from, from my perspective, it's a very different part of my job. But it's, it's, it's really such a rewarding experience, something that I really that strikes me every single time I think about it. When I started five years ago, the books and the stories that were ended through the FAB prize were very different. I think a lot of writers at the time, especially both debut and established, felt the need, if they were of color, to write about specific things, to show certain kinds of representation. And now there are those things that are being written with, with grace and care and sensitivity. But there's also a lot of seeing writers just having fun on the page, exploring different worlds, looking into fantasy, looking into sci fi, looking into just the silly and the humorous. And we know that there is a decline in children's reading at the moment, and I really do think bringing the silly, the joy, the humor, having those important conversations, but delivering it in a way that feels palatable, accessible and energizing. It's a really special thing to be able to do, and that that makes me excited. There is often conversations about the changes that are needed in the industry, and I don't think we can ever disregard those. But the one thing that excites me the most is seeing the number ofunderrepresented communities writing these really beautiful stories in a way that feels authentic to them, that they are writing something because they want to, and not because a trend is saying it, and not because this is what the market is saying. And I often say to these writers and to new writers, write what your heart wants to write. It's so easy to look at the market and be like, Oh, let me, let me, let me. It's very easy to track the market. It's very easy to think, actually, this is what I should be doing. But again, timeless writing is always timeless. If. Write what is in your heart to write. And I often also then follow up by saying, you know, the market will just have to catch up with you. And we're seeing that. We're seeing that happen now,
Gemma Jackson:yeah, do you think there's any crossover, or how do you manage the different mindsets with being an editor and being a judge?
Ama Badu:I think there are very similar things. I think because our entrants are at a different stage of their journey, we show a lot more grace and compassion, and we sort of see more of the potential than we would if we were looking at a submission through an agent, but also in both judging and when reading submissions, there is just the feeling you get. And as a reader, there's a feeling you get when you start to read something, whether it's polished, whether it's finished. There is a read. There's a feeling. It feels almost like a buzz when you're reading something and you're like, Okay, I want to know what happens next. I wanted to keep reading. That buzz is what I look for, both as a judge and as an editor. That feeling that I want tokeep I want to keep pulling out this thread. I want to see where this is going. And it's very exciting. It's very exciting. I think across the years, the standard that we're getting has just increased so much as well, like every year, it it just surpasses, surpasses, surpasses expectation. There is so much talent out there, and it makes our job as judges quite difficult, actually. Well, it's a brilliant problem to have
Gemma Jackson:Have you had any, like, favorite books that have come out of the prize? Or, yeah,
Ama Badu:oh, I don't know about favorites, but there are just, I'm going to be not biased. There are just really amazing work. I think a lot about My Hair by Hannah Lee, and The Rapping Princess. And both Hannah and Allen, the illustrator, had come through the FAB prize. And often in editorial, we will pair illustrators and we will pair authors together. But there is something really special about the way they work together and the way that they the words and the art just become so integrated. It's just, yeah, that's that's been on my mind a lot recently. I've also acquired something that's coming out next year. It's called Bad Queer. It's by one of our FAB Prize winners, and it's just so gorgeous, Gayathiri has done such a beautiful job in just showing love for the first time, falling in love for the first time, while you're figuring out what you want to do at uni, if you want to go to uni at all, why your best friend's new boyfriend means that you're seeing less of your best friend while you're trying to figure out all the family dynamic. It's just it's so gorgeously put together. And there are so many others. There are there really are so many others. What I also like to do, and it's not a conflict of interest, but I I love to see books that maybe haven't gone to us in house, but are FAB Prize winners, because seeing their success and seeing how the book we first read million drafts ago, then goes on to do something different. I say it because I think every editor see something different in a book. It's quite a personal experience. So seeing another editor's vision for a book that I saw at a very early draft stage, then come to life. I love that. I love that. I love seeing something meaning, oh, you've done this and this, and I can see all you're doing there, yeah, just seeing the end product of something, it's just, it's gorgeous,
Gemma Jackson:yeah, that must just feel so like rewarding.
Ama Badu:It really does. It really, really does. And obviously I want us to get all the great books i i do, but we can't publish everything. And also I do think there are times where actually other houses have different skills than what we have. And so yeah, seeing those differences. Um, whilst championing the author every single time is a beautiful thing to be able to do.
Gemma Jackson:Yeah, how you obviously, you work with illustration and text, like in the prizes. But how do you when you edit like a picture book, for example, do you take the illustrations and the words like at the same time, or do they go on their own, different trajectories?
Ama Badu:It depends on the project. So sometimes we will work with an author, illustrator, and so the process is very different. More often than not, there is a text and not necessarily an illustrator attached to it. And this isn't just with picture books, it's with illustrated Yeah, well, any book that's illustrated so it can be, you know, young fiction, little grade ya even graphic novels at times where we've got the text and we've got the vibe and the energy of the text. Now it's about finding an illustrator who can match the energy of the text, that's a very specific thing to do. We've been working on a collection of classics on our ya list, so things like the bell jar and with the views of that way, like all of these very established books, and then thinking about how we can get new readers to engage with us in a different way, and how we can use illustration and art to really bring those things to life. And also, specifically with the classic they were writing in times where they couldn't necessarily speak on things in the way we can, especially when it comes to representation. And so then being able to openly embrace, for example, a queer text as a queer text is a huge thing to be able to do. And then pairing the correct illustrator who will highlight the things that we want highlighting, and that list, for me that we've done the Great Gatsby recently, I remember the view I mentioned the Bell Jar, there are more coming, but it's really becoming something of its own, especially because each text has a very different illustration style to it. So it's, yeah, it's, it's just a very different way of having to think about things that we're so familiar with, often or not so much. And then when it comes to other texts, be away from this, but things like picture books, I'll work together with the author to think about what the brief of that will be, because that's also a very different way of telling the story. You have the words, how do you use images on every single page and every single spread. Where do you use a full page spread? Where do you use half pages or vignettes? How can you incorporate those things? And the beauty of it is, we work with really talented illustrators, so the process is very often collaborative. Anyway, we will have ideas. They will have ideas, and we'll find and the author will have ideas. Of course, we find ways of bringing it all together. And I love that, I love that it's such a different part of my brain that I use. And so going through and looking at portfolios, looking at artists, looking at illustrators, looking at graphic designers, and seeing how their work could match or fit into a specific title is a really exciting thing to be able to do. Yeah.
Gemma Jackson:Have you got any advice for anyone who wants to maybe enter the children's publishing industry?
Ama Badu:Yeah, absolutely, I find and again, maybe this is my bias, but I think the conversations we have in children's vary so much from what the adult side of things do. But I think there is also this warmth and this opening energy that exists within children's publishing, not just in house, but literally across the industry, the work you guys do and other organizations as well. And I would say, really engage with that. Go to events network where you feel comfortable doing so, and look for people who are interested in a similar vein as you. Because I think what happens over time is that you become each other's peers. Think about who you would want to be, as mentor, as a mentor to you, read, read as much as you can, and be curious about that reading you can read something you mean, I, I would have changed this, that. And the third, I think that's a really important skill. And I'd also really encourage you to look past editorial. Editorial is great. I love what I do. I think I'm where I'm supposed to be, but there are so many other, like, exciting things and that you can do if you wanted to travel more with your work. You know, sales is a great place for that. Sales also have a lot of the power. So it's a good place to be. You know, rights have a really interesting time thinking about where something's going. They also do a lot of traveling too. But, you know, thinking about where a book can really do well in different territories. I talked about production, I really just marvel at the work that they do, comms as well, part marketing, publicity. This is really creative roles. But again, do something so different, and and there are so many that I'm not even mentioning here, but each department does something slightly different. And if you know that your end goal is one thing, even getting your foot in the door in a different role can really help lead to you re evaluating where you want to be or lead to a role in another place as well. Yeah, don't be afraid to reach out to people. You know. LinkedIn is great. Send an email if you have questions. But yeah, get involved. Become engaged. Oh, and check out creative access. They really found such great mentorship schemes and internships and events, I find that I found that even as I was starting really helpful meeting others who are in a similar position to me.
Gemma Jackson:Yeah, would you give like, the same advice to people who are like you did, like looking for a career change?
Ama Badu:yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I'd say it's taken me a while to appreciate how my like portfolio career has really impacted my role for the better. I think publishing is at a point where there are shifts and changes that are happening. And I actually think that having a workforce that have experiences elsewhere can be really helpful, because the way you see things, the way you see the market, the way you understand things, is very different. And at a time when we need to shake up the most, I think actually coming in with fresh eyes just means you're going to spot things that we in house may miss because we've we've been there for so long, it's almost like when you're reading a book, you've read it, you've read it, you've read it, you've edited, edited, edited, sometimes taking a step back to come back with fresh eyes is very helpful. And I think the same is true with careers as well. Yeah, you don't need to have done an MA in publishing to work in publishing, and you don't need reams and reams and means of experience. It helps. But actually, experience in other places can be transferred, and having confidence when you're speaking on those things in those rooms are really helpful, because ultimately, open this is a creative job. It's a creative role. It's a creative industry, and I think there are similarities across creativity that, yeah, surpass the title,
Gemma Jackson:And publishing industry is such an exciting place to be at the moment
Ama Badu:it is. There's a lot of exciting things happening.
Gemma Jackson:Yeah, I've just got a final, like, fun question to end on, which is, What book or books are you currently reading? What would you recommend for listeners?
Ama Badu:Okay, okay, okay, there's one book and it's a favorite book, that's why I say like that, because it feels bad, yes, on the adult list that I have not stopped thinking about, it's had a name change, so bear with me. It was previously called the Lost Love Letters of Boysie Singh. It is now called the Lost Love Songs. So it is absolutely stunning. It's written in the Trinidadian vernacular, and as was Love After Love, which was equally stunning. But what I find really interesting here is that you've got a story of three women, and it appears to be a story of three women talking about a man and his life, but it's so much more profound than that, and it's so much more deeply feminist as well. We're looking at three women living their lives with a man in the backdrop, but really coming to terms of themselves, growing, healing, questioning, unpicking things. And I just, I cannot stop thinking about it. My older sister and I, we often read similar things at similar times, and I we've just not stopped talking about it. To this day, we read it last year. To this day. We keep talking about it.
Gemma Jackson:Wow, that's the sign of a good book.
Ama Badu:Absolutely, absolutely. A YA book I think everyone should read. And again, I'm biased, is Glasgow Boys by Margaret MacDonald, another favorite book. It has had a really gorgeous sweep recently of awards, and last night, we won the Branford Boase, it's such a gorgeous heart wrenching book with so much emotion and so much compassion and so much care. It's about two working class boys who are doing everything they can to escape the chaos of the world and to find a place for themselves in the world. They've come from a care system, and they're really trying to set themselves up. And it's just, it's so beautiful. It's so beautiful. So yes, please read, read it. I think there is something. There is something right now. There's an energy right now across the world, and we're seeing it across the world that feels very weighted and very heavy, and it can be very easy to feel lost. And so reading books like that that make me bawl my eyes out, also remind me that there is compassion and love and care out there. And it makes me think that if readers who are younger than I am are reading this, the readers who will become our future leaders, it makes me very excited to think about what they can do with the world, if they they've got a base of compassion and care and love. And lastly, I'm reading a collection of Nikki Giovanni's poetry. It's quite a wide collection. It goes from the 60s right up until the 2020s and I, I'm enamored by it. There is something so beautiful about seeing someone's career grow, and I think reading her collection in this way does feel it. And, yeah, I'm marveling at the times where she chooses to focus more on the political and the personal, and how inter integrated to political and personal life that she writes with so much passion and anger and courage and joy and love and hope. But a lot of what she's saying isn't any different to what groups of people are saying today, the struggle that she talks about, the thirst for equality and peace and justice, the hunger for a better world, is littered throughout her work, and I'm reading it now, decades after she's written it, and thinking, How much of the world has changed. What would she say of the world we are now in? This is why I'm excited to get to I'm reading it kind of chronologically. I'm really excited to see what she has to say about our decade in particular. But yeah, no, I find myself turning over certain words in my mind constantly that she's written, and it feels like a really beautiful way to just, sit down with her, almost, pick out her mind through her work.
Gemma Jackson:Thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
Ama Badu:Of course, no, this is lovely to do, and anything I can do to help, it's great. I love speaking. I love talking, and I love talking about the work I do. So thank you for inviting me on podcast.
Gemma Jackson:Thank you for listening to inside publishing. I've been your host, Gemma. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review us on Apple podcasts Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcast, it really helps us reach more people. Also feel free to let us know your thoughts on social media or send suggestions our way at podcast.syp@gmail.com. See you next time.