The Brad Weisman Show
Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! #TheBradWeisman #Show #RealEstateRealLife
The Brad Weisman Show
Shared Spaces, Shared Lives: The Co-Living Revolution
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This episode reveals how Co-Living is transforming the housing landscape, providing financial benefits for investors while fostering community among residents. Grant Shipman, the founder of Livingsmith, shares insights on managing Co-Living spaces, addressing logistics, safety, and emotional support within these modern shared living arrangements.
• Exploring the real definition of Co-Living
• Discussing financial opportunities for investors
• Understanding the logistics and management of co-living households
• The role of community agreements and peer accountability
• Emotional benefits and personal connections in shared living spaces
• Addressing municipal regulations and co-living challenges
• Resources for getting started in co-living investments
"This is a whole new type of investing in real estate. If you're looking to create more cashflow than a standard residential rental property... this is it!!" Grant has the whole process down, don't go it on your own... get in touch with him! - Brad Weisman
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Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife
Credits - The music for my podcast was written and performed by Jeff Miller.
All right, here we go From real estate to real life and everything in between the Brad Wiseman Show and now your host, Brad Wiseman.
Speaker 2:All right, oh man, I am super, super excited about this episode because it is something that I've never, ever, really heard about until now. Somebody had gotten in touch with me and said there's this guy doing this thing called co-living and I know you're probably sitting there going. What the hell is co -living? That's exactly what I thought when they got in touch with me, and co-living is something that's a little different. And Grant Shipman, the guy that we're going to have on here in just a second, is the guru at this. He has a company called Living Smith and he just he's all. He's all over the place teaching how to do this as an investment. So we're going to dive right into this right now. Grant, are you there? Yeah, this is great, Awesome, and you're straight from Colorado.
Speaker 1:It's. We got a beautiful snow yesterday. It's just like all the pretty without the cold.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool, that's cool. So have you gotten a lot of snow so far?
Speaker 1:No, no. And that's also why we maintain a second home down in Texas, because when it gets too snowy we leave.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great man. That's awesome. Yeah, and are you a skier?
Speaker 1:I try to be my wife's awesome at it. So I'm a faller, you're a faller.
Speaker 2:That's okay. That's okay. You just don't want to fall. You don't want to hit trees. They tend to win. That's the only thing about skiing. Yeah, trees are bad.
Speaker 1:That's why I maintain an exciting slow rate. And do you, do you ski then?
Speaker 2:I used to ski. I picked it up a couple of years ago with my kids and it's amazing when you get older you forget that you don't have the functionality that you had.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's the next day. I felt like a truck hit me. I mean, it was unbelievable. Yeah, so it's a great sport, though Great winter sport.
Speaker 1:My, my wife, I, I do like the, the real estate, the systems, the co-living, all of that stuff and the systems, the co-living, all of that stuff. And I'm not, my natural language is not fun, but my wife's natural language is fun, so she does like the back country, snowboarding and skydiving. So so I just I just I have a whole bunch of fun in my life because I rightly married her.
Speaker 2:That's great man. I'll tell you the skydiving. You don't run out. There's no way I'm jumping out of a plane that's not going down. You know what I mean. So if the plane's going down, I'll jump out, Otherwise I'm not jumping out and obviously you jump out with a parachute, of course, which nobody travels like that. But yeah, let's get into this co-living thing. I mean your, your podcast agent got in touch with me and I'm pretty picky now these days, just because we get a lot of requests to be on the show. And when I saw this co-living thing it caught my eye and I'm going to quick tell you what Wikipedia has as a definition, and you can tell me, because they're not the most accurate. It says co-living is a residential community living model that accommodates three or more biologically unrelated people living in the same dwelling unit. Is that, does that sound accurate?
Speaker 1:I I mean, that sounded pretty darn good yeah for wikipedia. It's pretty good right yeah, we, we are doing um. I I recommend seven to eleven people um.
Speaker 2:But as far as what?
Speaker 1:what I do? That's the households just run better. It's a better renter experience, easier to manage, but yeah, like three unrelated people, it's kind of like a little non-traditional household. Good job, wikipedia, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, okay, let's take that definition. And now I have all kinds of questions. Okay, so the big questions. So we're talking you buy a property, you buy it. You say, okay, I'm going to rent this out to not just one person, but I'm going to rent it out to five, seven, you said 11, whatever it is. Now, obviously it's got to be a big property and the people that you're renting it to don't are not related pretty much, you know, and do? They share the same fridge, the same washer and dryer, so the whole house is shared.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and I mean really, you nailed it. This is a normal house in a normal neighborhood, and this is what's happened in the last so many years is in the last so many years is people would rather live with others. They would prefer to live with others rather than alone, and it's no longer driven by price right, there's always been rooming houses, boarding houses, but it's because of that right. They don't if there's lots of people, because of work, because of whatever, they don't have family around to live with, they don't want to sign a lease with other people, but they would love to live with others. So they get a beautiful house for the price of a room and an investor right gets. So we're getting like two to three times as much. So we're selling pizza by the slice, so we're making a lot more money. So renters, investors.
Speaker 2:I like that analogy. That's a great analogy. That's good, the pizza by the slice. So so, basically, what you're doing is you're you're renting, the person is the. The owner is renting the bedrooms within the home. Um, for, obviously, if you add them all up, you're getting more money than you would if you ran into the whole house. Is what you're saying.
Speaker 1:If you add them all up, you're getting more money than you would if you ran into the whole house, is what you're saying? Yeah, like my, my first house. It would have gone for 20, $2,400 for rent. It was a normal house on a corner streets, there's plenty of parking and um uh, but with seven bedrooms at $700, now it's more. Rent was more, but that was $4,900 a month. I got Right. So not. I mean, not only does it the the um you know, double in income, but as far as like the cash on cash return, those kinds of things. But for me what it meant is I went from like like a real estate no experience, right, I was driving a crappy Prius delivering Domino's pizza.
Speaker 2:Don't worry, toyota does not sponsor the show. Don't worry about that Prius delivering Domino's pizza.
Speaker 1:Don't worry, toyota does not sponsor the show, don't worry about that. And my, this lender I got ahold of uh right, the lender just laughed at me. It was like you will never qualify for a loan. I had no, I was. I was renting a room, I had no income and I was. I was lonely. I wanted to, you know, get married, have the beautiful kids that I have. But I got into to to real estate and that that large amount of income, that cash, not only absorbed my learning curve right, so I didn't suffer near what others do. But 15 months later I had a what a financial freedom, a $2 million net worth. I went on to. I found my, my girl, that I, I, uh. I met my girl about uh 19 months after I started. We got married and anyway, just to say like it's not only amazing for society but it serves society like crazy, but like financially, what it did for me and how it changed my life, like now I have my wife was like I really want a house in the Rocky mountains.
Speaker 2:So we got her one right, like I could have never done that before. Yeah, that's awesome, man, it's awesome, and so it's obviously it's very lucrative. The thing that I that that for me, is the logistics behind it. I've been in real estate for 32 years, going on 33, and you know and I've done. I've been in real estate for 32 years, going on 33 and you know and I've done.
Speaker 2:I've been a landlord many times. I'm a landlord now and I'm just curious, like, how do you bring all those people together? And there's a couple things that come to mind with this, and Hugo and I were talking about this liability. Like you're bringing people together that don't know each other. Do you have to worry about, like if there's, you know there's men and women that are coming in together and you know things happen when there's men and women in the same places together that maybe they don't know each other or whatever. So that that's the thing to me. And and does everybody know their space? Like you know, there's one family room, what you know who gets to sit in this chair? You know what I mean. Like I just wonder how it works out, and do they all meet first or do you rent it to three people and then rent it to the other four? You know, those are the things to me. They're just very, very a lot of logistics involved there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's the thing that basically there's kind of two things, because what you brought up is so important, we have investors that get starry-eyed because of the profit, the revenue, they get starry-eyed, they're like whoo and they jump into it. They find a house and they have not only such unsuccessful experience in managing, like the reasons you brought up, but additionally, additionally, it takes so much of their time and um, and and so we have uh, um, one of the big things that we do is is teach on, um on how to do co-living property management. It is just like short-term rental, airbnb management. If you do that, like you do long-term rental, you're going to run into problems. We do that and I know in the Denver area we're onboarding another I think it's about 80 houses just because of investors get into it and they're like ooh, you know.
Speaker 1:But the management side, really, what I did is I had this lucky accident, so, because of an early marriage that, uh, that failed, I did an unexpected thing, uh, unexpected for me. I moved into a hippie co-op, um, and I can't imagine where this is going to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah they. I moved into this, this hippie co-op. Um, interesting enough it was, a house was started in 1976. Um, and some of the members went on to start whole foods just to say oh my gosh, you're kidding me.
Speaker 1:These people, um, these people introduced me to the intentional living community, um, and, and they've always been, you know, part of society, just at the edges, but there are people who are, they're more, they're sharing equity. You know, we would have meetings and they were three hours long because you had to talk about. Everybody had an opinion on how the bathroom should be remodeled. But what I discovered, like these hidden gems from these people who were the OGs of strangers sharing a house, not because they have to right, because they want to, and thriving, I just took all of the stuff they were mastering, not because they have to right, Because they're, they want to and thriving, I just took all of the stuff they've, they were mastering, not just for decades, right, these people have been around forever, this tradition, but, but they had mastered and I just translated it into a property management scenario, a paradigm, and so so just to say some unexpected things happened is one is the risk profile that that you know typical real estate professional like you you brought up would rightly say doesn't your risk profile increase?
Speaker 1:And and actually, because, like my houses, so I'll pick out a house it's called gateway, so gateway house has eight unrelated people living in it. Now I have eight people, so if one becomes a bad egg, right I've got. I've got seven other responsible adults.
Speaker 2:What do they do? Kick them off the island, or what Do you have like a little flame thing that you do for each person?
Speaker 1:We do have. We do any. Any healthy household is going to have ways to like positive peer pressure or to protect the household and remove somebody. So the household does have that ability and it runs itself mostly. You know, if people want to live in a house and they want to live there a long time, they don't want it to be like a Airbnb house where somebody's cooking and cleaning for them, doing all this thing. They want a household system. We have a 40 point complete household system where they just run it themselves and, um, and really all, all blood related households have a system, whether they talk about it or not, you know, but we have a system.
Speaker 1:And what's kind of cool is the women living in the house feels so safe because safe because usually women have to live with women, because it's like two or three people and that could be that could be like risky with with a stranger male, but when you're talking seven, eight, nine, 10 people, you have, you have a safety in numbers. But additionally, the men bring a safetiness to women. This is this is me passing on their words. And then, of course, the men bring a safetiness to women. This is this is me passing on their words and and then, of course, the, the men, really appreciate that feminine energy and they don't, you know, leave trash around. So, so to say, the risk exposure of mine. I mean I have a. So my property manager stopped by and they do a 20 minute house check each month. They replace the toilet paper, they leave some candy on the kitchen table and tell them hey, you know, the house is looking good, but that means I have a property inspection every month, right?
Speaker 2:So, right.
Speaker 1:So my risk exposure, all of this stuff, actually drops way down, as long as the management is done correctly.
Speaker 2:So um so you're bringing up is exactly the case. Is there somebody deemed in the house to be the leader or the the main renter?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a good question. Is um, so what they'll refer to? This is called on on site management, right? You? You kind of give somebody a free room or or a discounted um, something like this. And and, frankly, um, and in one of the living Smith teachers her name is Jackie, um, she was. When she first started investing with us doing this kind of thing, she thought this was the way to do it. She wanted to be like a house mom. Well, she could manage one house of of of, uh, of eight people. She was one of the people she could man, and it took her 20 hours. Um, of of of eight people. She was one of the people she could and it took her 20 hours.
Speaker 1:Because, because, in the words of, when I first moved into this hippie co-op, my sponsor's name was Bruce. He was the guy who just kind of looked out for me in the beginning. I go Bruce, bruce, who's in charge? Who's in charge? He goes Grant, he goes nobody's in charge. So that means we're all 100% responsible. And so an important part of co-living houses is we say they're egalitarian houses, so they're governed by a lease and on a household covenant or like a roommate agreement some people call it, but everybody is equal. So if there's a problem going on, everybody's responsible for addressing that problem and basically not only is that good for the housemates like usually if there's an on site manager, you don't want to live for long in that place right, you're like sitting in the living room and they feel like they're watching you.
Speaker 1:But when, when, in, when, you're sitting in the the living room and you feel like, well, this is not only my living room, but it is my living room, um, it, just, it just goes a lot better. It's a, you know, we have one property manager, full-time property manager, 40 hours a week, that can manage 140 leases, compared to, you know, the one gal I was mentioning who's highly skilled, she could manage one, uh, seven seven.
Speaker 2:seven leases for 20 hours a week right, that's not very scalable. No, not so good. Not so good, it's just. That's incredible. And so these houses are typically obviously very large, so it's not like you're stepping on each other. I mean, when you say you have six bedrooms, it's not like it's a 2,200 square foot house with seven bedrooms. I mean it's not like each bedroom is like a bunk. I mean, these are like half decent size homes.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and I like that you're getting to numbers because it makes things a lot easier to say so what a really good home setup. If somebody is looking to get into this is look for a house on a corner lot 2,500 square foot and it's a five, three, um.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. What was the square footage again? 2,500 square foot and it's a five, three, five, three, four bath.
Speaker 1:Yes, and one of those bathrooms is probably going to be in suite, like a master bedroom. Yeah, Now, what we do then is like I'll give, this is actually the first house that I got, I'll give it, and we actually we're onboarding a house tomorrow. That's exactly the same thing. Normal houses, they have multiple living rooms, right, Like they might be called a fireplace room, a rec room, a playroom, but there's multiple living rooms, and because normal houses, when a house is built, it's built for a family.
Speaker 1:So, for instance, I have two kids and we got one on the way and we want a playroom where they can trash it, and that's okay and that's okay. But when you have multiple adults living together, they want one nice living room. So usually you walk in, right, there's a nice kind of sitting area, all of that stuff. But then you know the other two, like the fireplace room or the playroom. You add a door into that room, so it's closed by a door and that becomes just a really fantastic bedroom People. I mean it's like this one fireplace room. I mean whenever somebody has a fireplace in the room and then, and then what happens is that person real quick.
Speaker 2:Now just thought of this. Does that person think that they are the leader because they have the biggest bedroom and they paid the most money? The person with the fireplace gets to run the show right, well, no, so there's a.
Speaker 1:The house is really like people can can keep themselves, keep each other in check pretty well, and that happens in a, you know, any kind of a house I could totally see.
Speaker 2:I could see myself in this Dude. I pay this much a month, so therefore I'm entitled to have more refrigerator space or whatever it would be, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's where what we encourage people this is one of the things that's more of a preference, but all of our rooms are the same price.
Speaker 1:So what we do, we say everyone's equal, all the rooms are the same price, and it keeps things simple for our system Okay that makes sense, yeah, but additionally, somebody who you know they might move into a room and when another room, say the fireplace room or say the master bedroom, becomes available, then they're like ooh, ooh me. You know it kind of rewards seniority without giving authority, Gotcha. But yeah, to say, these houses, though people move into them and these homes become like these cherished places to live. They never want to leave, Like our. Our lifetime average renter tenancy is over two years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw that. I saw that in your your resume thing your your sheet. Twenty five point two month average tenant stay. That's incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's, that's lifetime. Right now, our average tendency is for our current renters is much higher. Um, I just like to share a lifetime because it's um, it's a little bit more realistic when people are starting yeah, Incredible.
Speaker 2:Now question for you this is ever have any houses where people got married after they were there together?
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, we see, this is juicy stuff right here, Hugo you got to get into the juicy stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, and and um, and this is what's so, uh, so great. And to say these households are so nice. My wife and I we lived in them. We were undercover, nobody knew we owned it, we just, you know, we just were. We didn't want people coming to us with problems and stuff. So we lived in them until we got, until we got married and pregnant, because I one, I understand, you know, I learned a whole lot from the intentional living community, but I don't know how to do these houses with people who have children.
Speaker 2:So that's, that's, that would be, yeah so.
Speaker 1:so yeah, people get married, and then they, and then they, um, or this one guy, he, he, um. Oh, this is this. Is you want to hear a great marriage?
Speaker 2:story. Sure, I would love to hear a good juicy story.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this this is uh, this is one of my favorites. So, um, we'll call him Mark, right?
Speaker 2:Um, so uh cause his name was Mark. No, just kidding, just kidding.
Speaker 1:The uh, uh, but, but Mark was, uh, he was, he would always go and and, uh, there was this brewery about two blocks away that the house had always, you know, a number of guys would walk to and they would play like different board games, trivia night, whatever, and um, and anyway, this was a house that I was living in, and um, and so we're out in this guy, Mark, he's like guys, guys, he's, he's like I'm going to, I'm going to propose to my girlfriend and and we're like, oh, that's really, really awesome. So we congratulate him. He goes, no, no, no, no, uh, guys, you don't get it. He goes. I've been dating this girl for like eight years. He goes. Any girl in the past that, um, that I I was going to make this move with, you know, I I moved in with and then we broke up because I couldn't live with anybody that.
Speaker 1:I was in relationship with he goes. But after a year of living here and learning how to live with others and you know we we have this process. He said the five on five system. That's a conflict management system. Me and my wife still use it Like let's do a five on five, he goes. After that he goes. I realized I could actually marry and move in with the woman I loved. I was just planning to just stay boyfriend and girlfriend and live separately forever and we're like Whoa. And so we were hoping that his fiance was going to move in and they would just take the master bedroom because it was coming available. But but for some reason she didn't want to. You know, share a house with six other people.
Speaker 2:So that is funny. No, that's cool, though that's a positive story there, absolutely. I just wonder, because you know, I think that when you're around people, you know whether you were attracted to them in the beginning or not. If you're around, you know somebody that you're attracted to, it might, you know, end up happening while you're just living with somebody you know. It's kind of interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, additionally, there's such a safety net in household. I think, if nothing else, we learned that during COVID, If you live with other quality people, you probably thrive. During COVID, If you live by yourself, regardless of how much financial wealth you had, you didn't have that. And so when I met my wife, her meeting the other people in my household, the other people in the co-living house, Um, first it told her that I'm I'm like, have some kind of emotional intelligence Cause I'm living with these other quality people, Right. But but the thing that it told me was you know, I I asked them hey, you know you've met Sarah, like you, blah, blah, blah. What do you think of her? What do you think of us together? And there's a real like, like, safety net, a real power there. That's cool.
Speaker 2:So the next topic that I that I wanted to bring up before we end here, because we're actually we've been talking for a while, yeah. So the next thing I want to bring municipalities, government, small government. I'm on the planning commission for our local township here and obviously we, we we deal with the Airbnb stuff. There's, there's a lot of regulations that are starting to come out about that, because the neighbors sometimes don't like it and there's, say, there's parties and things like that. What are you seeing pushback? Because you know if a house is a single family, single family house, you know now you're bringing in five, six, seven different not families, but they're not blood related, so they're not, they're just they're considered six families. What kind of pushback are you getting on that?
Speaker 1:So actually, actually, the trend is really like the trend that's kind of outlawing Airbnb, to say and my wife's a Airbnb person, she loves hospitality, right, I just want long-term renters that make my bank account grow. She loves hospitality, right, I just want long-term renters that make my bank account grow while I sleep. Right, she wants to make people happy and decorate the place. But what's this? Was this? So what's happening in Airbnb is kind of the opposite of what's happening in co-living.
Speaker 1:But to say is to bring specificity to it, is there's to bring specificity to it, is there's usually there's a code in the UDC of each city, each county, whatever. That says either you know either people related by blood or law or no more than blank number of unrelated people. So no more than three, no more than four, no more than five. The lowest I saw was two. But there's this rule and that's what was the biggest limiting thing to co-living. But what's happened because of the housing shortage and all of this stuff, is now we're having this whole legislation trend where, like say, in the state of Colorado, of Colorado, effective July 1st 2020, for all, all restrictions um on co-living are banned. So it doesn't and that's happening. I mean, well, let's see Washington, oregon, iowa, california, new York, um. It's happening in cities pretty much everywhere.
Speaker 2:It is at least like being discussed, and I get it. We have a problem with inventory. We have, I mean, I'm a realtor. I mean we've been uh, we've been low on homes in the country and locally here for probably the past two, three years. It's also the reason why prices are so crazy. But yeah, we have an issue. So there's gotta be. Uh, hugo and I, when I were talking about this a little bit before is that there's gotta be solutions. We got to think outside the box and I think the co-living thing is definitely something that that is outside the box. You know, I think it's something that that is gonna could really really start to grow, and I think it's great that you're the one you actually have a business of teaching people how to do this Correct. I mean, that's what you do, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's monthly. We do trainings. I've got a training tonight, a two-hour training. Sometimes we do five-day trainings. But specifically when somebody gets, when an investor starts in this, not only are they going to be making at least $1,000, if not $2,000 or $3,000 cash flow each month, but immediately they have just created more housing from current inventory. But immediately they have just created more housing from current inventory. They've just done about the biggest thing they can for the environment, better than driving an electric car or whatever else, and and and it's really, it's just really rewarding, right, we, we, we got, we got pictures. The property management was getting sent in pictures from the Thanksgiving dinners that were being had. Oh, that's interesting. Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people don't have family or something. That's a good place for them to actually create family and start to have family. It reminds me of a reality show or something. When you talk about these houses. The other thing I thought about is that, and we're going to have to wrap this up actually, but the other thing I was thinking of it's about a frat house.
Speaker 1:But when you get to live, I mean I mean I, me and my wife now we're the only two adults in our house right, Cleaning is a real deal. But when I lived with seven other people, I mean the house was so clean all the time, cause we each clean 20 minutes a week and holy moly, right, like everything. I mean I only mow the lawn once every eight weeks. Divide and conquer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, divide and conquer. You just split up the chores. That's awesome, man. Is there anything else like real quick that we can talk, that you wanted to bring up, that we didn't touch, cause I think we touched a and maybe we can have you on again, because probably a lot of the things that we could cover. So, in order to get in touch with you to do the trainings and stuff I think you had said livingsmithprocom, is that correct? Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:And is there any other place that you think is the best place? You were saying also Facebook, and that's also Living Smith Pro right On Facebook.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Living living smith pro right on facebook living smith pro, yeah, um also, though, for anybody, anybody listening right now um, we, we made a specific uh thing off our website. So living smith blah blah. Living smith procom forward slash brad weisman show if you go here, there's some special goodies, awesome, um there. Um. As far as, like, how to get started, because, um, I mean, this, it's, it's the, I think, the easiest, safest, fastest, whatever way to financial freedom people to get started, people who have current portfolios that you know they're, they're having problems knowing how to increase their profits Cause they're not buying as much like, um, you know, do those houses convert to co-living? But anything there? Um, because, but anything there, because it's, I mean, five years from now this will be like the old thing, but right now people are like what is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. You're pioneering it, man. You're pioneering it. This is great stuff. I appreciate it so much. We're going to say goodbye. We'll have you back again someday too, just to go over some more things, but I love what you're doing. I love the ideas and it's a way to solve the inventory issue. All right, man, thanks.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate you having me on this is so awesome, no problem, all right, there you have it. Graham Shipman, founder of Living Smith. It's livingsmithprocom. You can go there. He's got some goody stuff if you do the backsplash of the Brad Wiseman show. But yeah, what an amazing thing. We have a problem with inventory in this country and this is a way to solve it. So check out our show every Thursday 7 pm. All right, that's about it.
