Housing Shortage Causes Employment Crisis

Tim Daley of Habitat for Humanity and Steve Gieringer of Neighborhood Housing Services join forces to tackle Berks County's housing crisis by transforming affordable housing into workforce housing that benefits both employers and employees. Their innovative approach bridges the gap between business needs and worker stability, offering homeownership opportunities that strengthen communities while addressing critical employment challenges.

• Housing has become an employment issue as businesses struggle to retain talent due to housing affordability challenges
• Habitat for Humanity has evolved to focus on workforce housing for those making $23-33 per hour
• Homeownership provides stability for families and benefits municipalities through increased tax revenue
• Neighborhood Housing Services offers unique financing solutions including down payment assistance up to 105% of property value
• Comprehensive education (50 hours) and seven years of post-purchase counseling ensures buyer success
• Creative financing programs developed during COVID continue to have 100% performance rates
• Both organizations are rebranding their work as "workforce housing" to accurately reflect who they serve
• Home prices in Reading have increased from $39,900 in the 1990s to $160-200,000 today
• Over 300 first-time homebuyers have been created through these programs in the last three years

To learn more, visit www.habitatberks.org and www.nhsgb.org.

#habitatforhumanity #neighborhoodhousingservices #NHS #thebradweismanshow #tbws2025

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Transcript

Speaker 1 0:31

All right From real estate, that's the market as a whole, which then sometimes will affect the technology Right, the real life. We all learn in different ways. If you think about it, wayne Dyer might not attract everybody and everything in between.

Speaker 3 0:49

The mission was really to help people just to reach their full potential.

Speaker 2 0:52

The Brad Wiseman Show. And now your host, Brad Wiseman.

Speaker 1 0:58

All right, we're back. It's a Thursday, 7 pm, of course, and we got some great guests here. We have local guests, which we don't do as often as we used to, but I'm kind of excited about this because these two guys are working together. They're working together to try to solve an issue that we have here locally, and actually we have this issue pretty much everywhere around the country where housing is becoming a challenge. We don't have enough homes, and it doesn't matter what price range you're in it could be the high price range, low price range we just don't have the inventory. So right now I'm going to talk to two guys that are actually trying to solve that challenge.

Speaker 1 1:38

Right here in Berks County we got Tim Daly from the Habitat for Humanity and Steve Geringer. Is it Geringer? Is that right? It's Geringer. I said it correctly. Daly was easy. That's always easy, and I've had both of you on here at separate times before, and this time you're together because I know you guys work hand in hand together. You spend a lot of time trying to solve the housing issues that we have. So who wants to go first? Who wants to be in the hot seat? Tim, you want to take up what you're working on and what's going on, because this has changed a lot since the last time you were in here. What you were working on then compared to what you're working on now, it's really gotten big.

Speaker 2 2:19

It has. I'm in my 13th year. It's hard to believe that 13th year or 130. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 2:26

Let's see what time it is, let's go with 13. Okay, we'll go with 13.

Speaker 2 2:30

But it has gone through a transformation the concept of housing and so often you hear affordable housing, but the reality is it's transferred into housing that's affordable and that's not semantics, but it really is a way to look at how do you go about planning the future. And what we're starting to see now for about the last four years is this is now an employment issue as well.

Speaker 1 2:56

Yeah, that's the part that's really changing.

Housing as an Employment Issue

Speaker 2 2:57

Yes, and drastically. Four years is this is now an employment issue as well. Yeah, that's the part that's really changing. Yes, and drastically. And so this is right across the country. And so the opportunity for businesses to retain their employees, to be able to recruit talent to do what they need to do, is becoming more challenging. Need to do is becoming more challenging, and the number one reason across the country is the inability to afford housing to work at that various companies, based on their salaries and the knee-jerk reaction to a lot of conversations, are well then, the business should just pay them more money, and that's really not. You know, assuming that you're getting paid a fair wage to make whatever it is you make, that's really not. You know, assuming that you're getting paid a fair wage to make whatever it is you make, that's really an unfair expectation.

Speaker 2 3:41

So what we're trying to do at Habitat is we're saying listen, we want to bridge the gap between the needs of the employer and the needs of the employee.

Speaker 2 3:51

The employer needs to sustain their employees. They need to be able to make sure that the quality of the product is at the level they need it to be, and that only comes with experience. And the employee they need to have some stability in their own lives, because every time they pick up for that next $2 to $3 an hour job down the road, not only are they moving, but again that's one more level of never owning anything that's theirs. Their kids are getting transferred to yet one more school. There's a whole lot of ripple effect that go on. So if we're able, if Habitat's able, to create the housing stock where the $23 to $25, $33 an hour employee gets, we can put them in a position where the employer now has the ability to help recruit talent, maintain the talent they have, and that employee will be able to stay at that job for longer periods of time, for the simple reason is they can afford where they live. Yeah, for longer periods of time.

Speaker 1 4:56

For the simple reason is they can afford where they live, and we see this all the time being in real estate for 30-some years. Pride of ownership is a key thing too when you're renting. I mean nothing wrong with renting, it's a step in life. I mean, we all have to either go there in the beginning or sometime in your life you have to go back to it, depending what's going on. But the ownership part gives you such a stability in your work, gives you stability in your, in your family, because, like you said, picking the kids out of school, going to the next school, you know it hurts their educational situation possibly oh, it compromises it greatly, absolutely, absolutely. So that's actually really cool and it's amazing. Now I got a quite quite one to ask you I think it's while you were talking Are the other habitats throughout the nation? Habitat for Humanity is a big, big obviously big organization.

Speaker 2 5:49

Is this a common challenge? It is, but with the regard that many of the affiliates have their own particular circumstance and in the Northeast part of this country, what I just spoke to is a challenge that we universally feel.

Speaker 2 6:00

Other parts of the country are a little bit different, but we're all seemingly to have a conversation lately, I'd say in the last two to three years, where what do we do with the workforce? This is not, and when I came here 13 years ago, you entered into a conversation about housing and within two seconds you were talking about homeless.

Speaker 2 6:21

And as much as that's a condition that we need to work on. Habitat's not the tool for that, because Habitat works through homeownership and almost 100% of all the homeowners that across the country are employed. They're gainfully employed. It's a different kind of level.

Speaker 1 6:41

And.

Speaker 2 6:41

I tell you where. If that's successful, then the municipalities that they reside in, more tax dollars come in property value. There's more economy that that municipality can use to help the homeless situation and the hunger situation. And of course we do our best to eliminate the blighted properties as well. Sure, so again, we're not a Swiss army knife. We can't help everything, but for what we do we do very well.

Speaker 1 7:11

Yeah, I see that. I see that and I know that the community is involved. I mean, I know as realtors we're very involved in Habitat and it means a lot to us because obviously we're into the housing business. But it's also good for us as realtors to give back to the community and offer our services in whatever way we can, whether it's raising money for Habitat, which we do, and that's always a good time, the Birdhouse challenges every year for Habitat, which we do, and that's always a good time, the Birdhouse challenges every year.

Pride of Ownership Benefits

Speaker 1 7:36

But let's go to you Now, steve. You're working on the financing part, correct, which is a huge part of home ownership. It is Because he could do all the stuff he's doing with his team and get the houses built and have all the homes and stuff, but you got to finance these things. People don't have that. We're talking about people that are making a good wage but they need a loan, just like I have a loan in my house. We all do. It's the American way Go to debt, go in debt. So tell me, how does your piece fit in with his, with what he's doing there?

Speaker 3 8:09

Sure, well, what traditionally happens is Habitat has their equity, sweat equity model. And then what we do is we come in and we can provide additional financing that you're not normally going to see, and real quick.

Speaker 1 8:22

We is what. What's the name of the company? We is Neighborhood Housing Services in Greater Burns. Sorry, no, it's all right, I just want to make sure we got that out there.

Speaker 3 8:29

So what happens is traditionally with Habitat they'll have a first mortgage lender partner Oftentimes it's a customer's bank and they do a great job and we have a strong relationship with them and then what will happen is if the client is still the buyer, is still short funds to close, then we can step in with a down payment assistance, closingannie, freddie, community second guidelines, or if it's an FHA product which his new homes are not or would not be, at that point we also are a certified FHA second mortgage lender, so we'll go up to 105% CLTV, so you can actually borrow 5% more than the lesser of the sale price or the appraisal and what that ends up doing.

Speaker 1 9:15

I can tell you right now the critics are going to say and I'm always trying to play a little bit devil's advocate here People go, that's how we got in trouble before 105% financing. We can't do that. So I'm just saying how people think so go ahead.

Speaker 3 9:30

So here's what happened in 2008. Prior to that, 2006, we would call them the liar loans, the all-day no-doc loans. And what happened was, if you could fog a mirror, you had a pulse and a credit score. I could say I made a million dollars and they're going to lend me the money. Yours is different, Correct. At that point, a lot of those loans, if not all of them, were adjustable.

Speaker 2 9:51

Yeah.

Speaker 3 9:51

And very, very many of them were the bad adjustables. They were the flex pay option arms, the 1% teasers, and then the loan would recast. Sometimes it would add up to 30% on the mortgage balance, because if you're only paying 1% and the interest rate is 7%, where does that 6% go? Well, it goes on the back end of the loan. That wasn't the worst part of it. The worst part of it is it was only locked in for that fixed rate period for five years, and then it would recast for a remainder 25 year, fully amortized at the full interest rate. So you heard those stories, tim, about people saying oh, I got an $800 payment Bang.

Speaker 3 10:30

Five years later it's up to $2,500. And people are like, well, I can't afford that. So we today don't play in that arena. What we do is our second mortgages are all for first-time homebuyers and they all have to qualify within what they call the area mean income. So this is not for people buying the $500,000, $600,000, $700,000 McMansions. Why is our program important? It's because most of our borrowers, outside of Tim's beautiful homes that they build, they're buying distressed properties. Yeah, Okay, they're buying 900 square foot row homes that probably haven't been upgraded in 30 to 40 years. So I got it now.

Unique Financing Solutions

Speaker 3 11:13

So if I take all of your money. Okay, if I take your 20% and your closing costs and deplete your savings, what are you going to use to refurbish it? And the dirty little secret is the banks and the credit unions will only allow you to go up to 85% CLTV on a home equity. I'll take you 20 points above that, or 20% above that. Gotcha, what does that do? If you can afford and we have very, very strict budget and credit counseling, they have to go through an eight-hour soup to nuts first-time home buyer class, plus one hour of one-on-one counseling prior to purchase, and they're required for seven years that they hold the loan. That long they have to do post-purchase counseling.

Speaker 3 11:59

Because, you know, how it works.

Speaker 3 12:00

You get them at settlement table, they fall off the planet.

Speaker 3 12:03

They go buy a Lamborghini or whatever I'm just kidding but they buy furniture and the next thing you know, credit card debt goes up, their debt to income ratio is through the roof and then they're struggling to make the payments.

Speaker 3 12:17

So the follow-up counseling, the budget check and the credit counseling allows us to keep a pretty close rein on them and oftentimes, when things do go sideways, life happens. They can lose a job, somebody gets sick we're right there because we've established that relationship and oftentimes the first mortgage lender doesn't even know. So our programs are designed to allow them to keep their savings because they're going to have to use that to do the upgrades, repairs or whatever that has to happen to the property. So one of the things that Tim and I were involved in when we were doing things with the city is we would get distressed properties and then Tim would do the rehab part of it, habitat would and then we would find buyers, get them set up with a first lender and then we would do the same thing. We would do our down payment assistance to help them in the event. There were other things that they wanted to do with the property upgrades or whatever, and they simply just they didn't have the capital and the means.

Speaker 1 13:17

So that's what we do. We're access to capital, but you're still going to be involved with this new build stuff, Of course. Yeah, so that that's the part that's that really has. Is interesting is that you're kind of turning into a builder. If, as if the way you look at it now is you're looking to build properties anywhere in the county that makes sense, Right, and and have you know NHS finance them, get them the people to come in, and you're talking. Sometimes you said if you can even find larger pieces of land, you'd be interested in looking at that. To do multiple instead of just doing a one-off house, Cause you know the the economy of the economy of scales is is better when you're building five units or or a multi-unit of some sort, instead of, you know, doing one house we're fortunate that we have the ability, we have the know-how, yeah, to be able to do whatever to scale.

Speaker 2 14:11

We need to do yeah uh, we have to build the infrastructure when we get the work, just like any business. If we know we have the work, we'll be able to backfill it in to do what we need to do. So we're looking at two to three to five acre lots maybe 10, to be able to purchase the land at a reasonable price in an area that is allowing the families to live closer to life and not necessarily work, yeah right, and so that will build brand new housing there, and then we make it again. As I said earlier, the affordability factor is involved, because you know we're good at bricks and mortar and then when Steve comes in and I call it, something magical happens. That's what I understand about it.

Speaker 1 14:56

He didn't say that earlier, steve. You said something else, just so you know.

Speaker 2 15:00

But something magical happens financially for these families to fit in and keep in mind. These families are not getting anything for nothing.

Speaker 1 15:08

No.

Speaker 2 15:09

Okay, they put in their sweat equity, they have a 30-year mortgage, they have a fixed rate of interest. So, as you said earlier, the American way, we put them in debt. But, they swim there very comfortably because for the last nine months and I don't mean to put the whammy on me 100% of our mortgages have been healthy. Knock on wood back here, please do. We've got wood back there?

Employer Involvement in Housing

Speaker 1 15:31

yeah, no, and I think that. But that has a lot to do with also the education. Oh, absolutely, you know, I think that that's some of the pieces that were missing. You know, years ago, when I got in the business, there was a lot of first time home buyer programs and a lot of times the educational part was not there. And I think that's the thing is that it's different than renting. They have to understand that there's going to be things that come up that you're not expecting, you know that are going to cost you money, so you can't spend every dollar you have and you can't blow up all your credit cards because you might need that to buy a stove at some point.

Speaker 2 16:03

You know what I mean. Yeah, the added piece here and this is something we do intentionally by the time you get the education because we do 50 hours and included in that is Steve's education by the time you get the education, within a few months you're using it. Now, a lot of people who go through these programs. They go through the program, they sit through the 35 hours or whatever it is, and good for them, but at the end of the day they're not going to be using that anytime soon. So, and there's no refresher course, correct? And I always make the analogy if a Jack Nicklaus, you know, came to me for a week and said I'm going to teach everything about golf, I mean I'm a static, but if I'm not teeing it up for another year and a half you're done.

Speaker 2 16:48

Yeah, it's not going to work, but I think that's the unique uh, what we look at, we we tend Steve and I both tend to look at what we do through the eyes of who needs it. Yeah, not just what we do, but the eye of the consumer and I that allows us to be a lot more appropriate for their needs.

Speaker 1 17:08

Yeah, yeah now you had said too and we were talking, I think it was upstairs before we got started about the the really getting the employers involved in this process of, because that's one of the biggest things that's happening which we forgot about. With this inventory shortage that we have on all levels, it is becoming an issue for the employers to find employees because there's nowhere to live, and I've had that on a lot of different levels here. I know Tower Health is having issues with getting doctors, nurses, nurses that are in school to become a nurse. They're having issues, and years ago all the nurses would live in West Reading. They rent in West Reading there, one of the streets near the Spruce or whatever, but that's what they did. Well, good luck trying to find a rental. I mean good luck trying to find a house. It's tough. So you know, if you can't, you can have all the services in the world, but if you, if nobody, can live here to enjoy them or to take advantage of the services, we're kind of screwed.

Speaker 2 18:09

Yeah, and that's what we're seeing. The idea is the if you look at the just the housing situation in Berks County, until you get into the outer reaches of Berks County, they're all built because there was some major manufacturer around.

Speaker 1 18:22

You had the Reading.

Speaker 2 18:23

Railroad, you had the textile corporations and you had a lot of that, and that housing kind of fell by its importance. It kind of lost its gleam, if you will. But now all of a sudden, there's a renaissance and there is a need for that to be affordable, and so that's what we're trying to do and what I'm saying to the business community, and Steve would echo this as well you need us, we want to be a resource for you, because right now, now, what it costs you to go through the revolving door of employees at the level that we're talking not the higher echelon, yeah, but the blue collar guy that can't work from home or girl that has to be at work they want, they need stability, yeah, and you have the opportunity through your employment to give them that. You have the opportunity through your employment to give them that. But the bridge between those two happened to be the bridge that Steve and I build, which is where they can meet in the middle and make it work for both of them.

Speaker 1 19:24

And, as somebody financing these, you would rather have new construction than a fixer upper. Sure, absolutely, because it's less liability for not liability, less risk for you in the long run and that that they're not going to have these bills that they didn't expect. You know one of the things, too, when I was thinking about, when you were talking about do you follow up? Who makes sure if you're giving them 105% financing, 110, whatever it would be you're giving them extra money to fix it up? Do you go back? Does anybody go back to look to see if they did the things that they needed to do or no?

Speaker 3 19:54

If you get a home equity line of credit. No, no, I know where you're going. So no, that's a no, then that's a no. Now here's the thing, but I get it, I get it. We give them the equity, the money.

Speaker 1 20:06

If you will at settlement.

Speaker 3 20:09

So really, what's happening is they're not using my money technically to build or repair anything. What we're doing is covering the down payment and the closing costs so they can keep that money. So then, traditionally, when they use their money, they're more likely to spend it wisely than oftentimes if it's just hey, here's 50 grand and oh yeah, you know I was going to do this, but I think I'd rather go back to you know wherever I'm from, or go to California, do whatever, put it all on red and spin the wheel.

Speaker 1 20:40

But you don't have to go to California for that, just so you know. You can go right down the street to Hollywood casino and put it on red If you want. No, I understand, I wanted to touch on dovetail.

Speaker 3 20:48

On what he said yeah, go ahead. Both our organizations look at it from the inside out. What he means is the community aspect of what they need. Now, having been a former banker and mortgage officer, if a bank or a credit union is going to just offer to the community the products that they feel comfortable with, that they want to put out on the street, they're not necessarily meeting the needs of what the community needs Great point. And so one of the reasons why I love what I do is I can create community impactful lending programs. I'm going to share a little something with you. We have a product that's going to roll out.

Community Impact and Evolving Programs

Speaker 3 21:39

So, because of this whole Doge thing and not knowing about CDFI and then they were threatening through FHA I'm sorry, through Fannie and Freddie. Well, the FHA thing tightened up now with the alien immigration requirements. That's going to hurt anywhere from five to eight percent of the homebuyers in that Latino demographic and other demographics. So what they were talking about now is the difference between what Trump is doing. He's looking at discrimination on both sides of the book. Now, sure, okay. Before it was discrimination that we weren't doing enough in communities of color.

Speaker 2 22:20

Mm, hmm.

Speaker 3 22:21

What the administration is saying now is wait a minute. If I can only offer my specific programs to one set of a demographic, that's discriminatory. I have to offer it to everyone. Okay, sure. So what we did is we came up with a product now that we're going to be rolling out in the next 30 days, that's going to allow someone that purchased a home to be able to come to us and be able to get back some of their down payment and closing cost assistance money if they didn't use our program or if they didn't know it was available. And the reason behind that is, again, with the distressed properties that our clients are purchasing, they're going to need some sort of capital to make the home the home that they want.

Speaker 3 23:08

So this particular program that we're rolling out and we already rolled out a subset of this in COVID. I created a COVID program to help people consolidate their credit card debt and also because, during COVID, what the banks did is they pulled back on their CLTV from 85 to 75%.

Speaker 1 23:25

When you say CLTV for the audience, what does that mean?

Speaker 3 23:28

Sorry, combined loan to value. So that means if your house is worth a hundred thousand, they were pulling back and saying, well, traditionally we would offer it up to 85%. And again, I'm not trying to paint with a broad stroke. There were not every bank or credit union did this, but traditionally, what you were seeing across and a lot of the high, high, high value markets, that they were definitely doing this and they pulled back to 75. So now guess what, if I need a home equity, cause I'm struggling, what are you going to do as a family? Okay, let's say you get sick during COVID and you can't work, and now your spouse is supporting it. Are you going to let your family starve?

Speaker 3 24:05

You're going to run your stuff up on your credit cards. It's just the way it is until you can either get healthy or find another job.

Speaker 3 24:11

So what we were finding is we're having clients come to us and they've decimated their credit, not because they weren't paying, but because they've incurred so much credit card debt. So we created a program to wipe that out and for COVID related illnesses. If they did that, and also if they had some sort of health issue that required ambulatory services maybe they needed the bathroom adjusted or whatever so we would allow them to go ahead and come to us and we would go up to $50,000 and up to 125% of the appraised value and credit score as low as 580. Why did we do that? Because the community was struggling and nobody was throwing them a lifeline, and I can tell you for a fact I have 100% performance in that portfolio, and so what we decided to do, brad, is we are now going to offer this similar type of program to help those that may not have been able to take advantage of our programs or, for some other reason. They simply need assistance to do those types of things to rehab, upgrade their property.

Speaker 3 25:23

And so I've created these programs. They perform and they were requested by the community. Steve doesn't go out there and say, hey, you know what I want to do. I want to go ruin my nonprofit by, you know, putting all these crazy loan programs out there and then blow it up Test. We beta tested these programs and they work and they're impactful.

Speaker 1 25:44

And I love the whole idea of, and you're doing the same thing too. That's why Habitat is evolving. From when you were in here the first time to what you're doing now is completely it's different. It's definitely different. You were doing a lot of the teardowns and rehabs and things like that. It's evolving, but it's because the community is requesting it.

Speaker 2 26:05

Yes, and also the employers are requesting it. Well, we want more employers to request yeah. Okay, that's what we really need to do, yeah.

Speaker 1 26:13

So what do you need from the community, because we have a couple minutes here yet to wrap this up. What do you need from the community? What do you need from us, from realtors, what do you need from everybody?

Speaker 2 26:26

We need the word to come out to the community about what we just spoke to and we need it to come from voices that are well-respected.

Speaker 2 26:33

We need the business community to hear it from people they've heard other things, realtors being one of them and GRCA places like that to be able to talk about. This could be an alternative to your hiring issues, and the nontraditional name is Habitat for Humanity. So it has to come from the voices that they trust, and for too long we've been aligned with poverty issues and very low income and that's really not who we are, but that's, nationally what Habitat is afflicted with. But the reality is we help the workforce blue-collar population immensely, but we just need more voices to get the word out.

Speaker 1 27:16

And what about the politicians? Are they supporting you locally? Yes, well, I would say.

Creating Sustainable Workforce Housing

Speaker 2 27:21

Yeah, I think very much so.

Speaker 3 27:23

We had a really nice gathering in November. Doug was there. Doug was at our facility. We invited Congresswoman Houlihan was there. The local legislators were there. Cool, judy Schwenk was there and they got to.

Speaker 1 27:37

Really, our sheriff is now one of those reps too now Eric Wigneck.

Speaker 2 27:41

Yes, he is Past sheriff. Past sheriff. He'll be hearing from me.

Speaker 1 27:47

I just saw him over the weekend. He's a good guy.

Speaker 3 27:55

Yes, he is, and so we were lucky that bringing them in to see exactly what they do. Because a lot of you know, and to your point, about the branding aspect, they hear Habitat and right away they think, oh, you're getting a house for free. Oh, by the way, you're in that homeless space, you know. And for us with neighborhood housing services, let me just tell this joke when I first started at NHS, nobody knew that my family, friends, people come to me NHS National Honor Society. What the hell are you doing in National Honor Society?

Speaker 1 28:19

And everybody knows you shouldn't have been in that Exactly, Even though I wasn't.

Speaker 3 28:21

I almost got booted out. Oh sure you were, Exactly Even though I wasn't.

Speaker 1 28:24

I almost got booted out. Oh sure you were, I'm just kidding Anyway no, but long story short.

Speaker 3 28:28

So the branding of what I love what Tim did is he turned that around to be able to make it more palatable, because we don't want to get stuck in just that low to moderate income space. It's important, but he coined it workforce housing and that's going to be the new brand and he's the one that came up with it and we're riding that because right now, let me tell you something, brad, I don't know if you've seen some of the homes that are for sale now, some of the less desirable areas in the city. When I started, they were selling for 67,000 in 2017, put a one in front of it.

Speaker 1 29:04

I know I hey, you remember I've been in the business for 33 years, starting July, and I remember the going price of a typical North 10th Street. North 11th Street up was $39,900. Yep, that was it when you got a listing in the city and this is back in the mid-90s $39,900. That was it All day. You could just list them at 39.9 itself. Right Now it's 160, 170, 200 and some thousand. That's terrible. It's different. It's different. Things have changed.

Speaker 3 29:39

But that's why, from my end of what we do now, believe it or not, over the last three years, as inventory has shrunk and interest rates have gone up, we've had our three most successful years that we've been able to impact. So we create about a little over 300 first-time homebuyers that would have never been able to buy a house without our programs and services. I'm not talking about counseling. I'm talking about hard money in their pocket to do and to live, and to do the best that they can with the rising cost of utilities. Don't even get me started on property insurance. All of these things are contributing to the financial downturn of the American family.

Speaker 1 30:16

Yeah, it's tough, it's tough. Well, I'll tell you what. You guys were awesome, but we have to end the show. Unfortunately, believe it or not, that was 30 minutes. Wow. Well, thank you for having us show. Unfortunately, believe it or not, that was 30 minutes Wow.

Speaker 2 30:27

Well, thank you for having us.

Speaker 1 30:28

Yeah, absolutely, but no. So where can we get information?

Show Wrap and Contact Information

Speaker 2 30:31

You can go on the website wwwhabitatberksorg.

Speaker 3 30:36

Okay, mine's easy wwwnhsgborg.

Speaker 1 30:43

Okay, so nhsgborg there, so N-H-S-G-B.

Speaker 3 30:47

That's.

Speaker 1 30:47

Greater Berks Okay, dot org, there we go. Awesome, Thanks guys for coming.

Speaker 1 30:50

I appreciate it, you guys are doing great stuff too Really good stuff. All right, that's about it. There we go. We got Steve Geringer, we got Tim Daly, national I almost said National Honor Society, neighborhood housing services and Habitat for Humanity. They're doing great stuff. Please follow them on Facebook, on Instagram, figure out what they're doing out there, because they're doing great stuff and I'm looking forward to having them back again sometime soon. All right, that's about it. See you every Thursday at 7 pm, all right?