The Brad Weisman Show
Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! #TheBradWeisman #Show #RealEstateRealLife
The Brad Weisman Show
Kathryn Lehman - Most Experienced to Take the Gavel
We talk with Kathryn Lehman about running a clean, disciplined campaign, why trial court experience matters, and what real accountability looks like for OUR County. From fentanyl to bail policy to youth prevention, we dig into how a judge can be both firm and fair without politics in the courtroom.
• Primary win and staying calm amid mudslinging
• Endorsements across law enforcement and unions
• What a Court of Common Pleas judge actually does
• Jury duty, evidence rulings and appeals
• The largest county fentanyl seizure and safety
• Degrees of murder explained in plain language
• Youth outreach on sexting and consequences
• Rehabilitation, reentry and smart alternatives
• Bail decisions grounded in public safety
• Contrast in trial experience with the opponent
• Why respect and the robe still matter
Get out and vote. November 4th. Everybody in the county can vote. Democrat, Independent, Republican, doesn't matter who you are. YOU can pull the lever for Kathryn Lehman.
Hi This is Brad Weisman - Click Here to Send Me a Text Message
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Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real estate, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealEstateRealLife
Credits - The music for my podcast was written and performed by Jeff Miller.
Okay, here we go. You ready?
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Alright, here we go. From real estate the market as a whole, which then sometimes will affect the thing. Right, you know the real life. We all learn it. If you think about it, Wayne Dyer might not attract everybody and everything in between.
SPEAKER_04:Mission was really to help people just to reach their full potential.
SPEAKER_02:The Brad Wiseman show. And now your host, Brad Wiseman. All right, we're back again tonight. Thanks for checking us out every Thursday, Hugo.
SPEAKER_03:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:Every Thursday. Are you getting sick of me?
SPEAKER_03:No, no.
SPEAKER_02:You're not? How could I? Oh, that's very sweet. That's so sweet. It's not what you were inviting.
SPEAKER_03:Not pay me my money. Yeah, exactly. I actually did get an invoice last night.
SPEAKER_02:I guess that's why he said that. Holy crap. Um, but no, we got a repeat guest here today. You know that?
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes. It's actually very interesting because um she was here just a little bit ago. I'm gonna say a couple months ago, and uh she was going up for a candidate to be judge, uh Come and Please, I believe it is, Come and Please Judge, uh, for Berks County. She actually won uh the Republican uh candidacy for um Come and Please Judge, and she will be going up against Eric Taylor, who is the Democrat candidate. So, Catherine Lehman, welcome back to the studio.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much for having me back.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, this is great. So, congratulations.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I you know, we've talked a little bit since then, couple couple different places we we've bumped into each other, and um that had to be an incredible night.
SPEAKER_00:It was.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's stressful, um, but very rewarding.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And we are just happy to be on the other side of it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I bet. Um do you did you think that you would win? You won by a pretty good, pretty good amount, I would say.
SPEAKER_00:Did I think that I was going to win?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you knew you're gonna go, you know you're you you go into it winning, I would think. You're gonna win, you're gonna win. But was there a time that night where you thought you weren't gonna win?
SPEAKER_00:So I did my very best not to ever look at any of the numbers until they were pretty close to being in. But we got we had a watch party, and when we had our watch party, I went in and I said to all my uh family and friends that were there, whether we win or lose tonight, I'm really proud of the campaign that we ran. I'm really proud of the work that we put in from people that we met who were like, Hey, how can we help? Like, you seem like an awesome person, and that just really meant a lot to me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so that night, sure, there's always that possibility that you're not going to win, but I tried not to look at anything until like most of the precincts had reported because Yeah, because it goes all over the place. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And it's also because of different precincts and how they're represented and things like that. Yeah. But uh yeah, but it was nerve-wracking. Biting your nails, any kind of that kind of stuff?
SPEAKER_00:No, I was fairly calm, um, just because, like I said, we did all the hard work that we could do. Um, there wasn't anything that I, you know, thought back on that said, oh, I wish I would have done that, or I should have put more energy into this.
SPEAKER_02:So when you got there, you were like, you know what? We did it all.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:If if this doesn't happen, it doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_04:That's a that's a great feeling to have to know it that you gave it your best. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Because you can go to bed at night.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Knowing and so when my husband and I decided that we were going to to do this campaign, we said, we are going to run a clean campaign, we are going to run a professional campaign, and we're not going to ruin our reputations. We both have very good reputations in the community, and this campaign is going to be a reflection of that. And so on May 20th, I felt very confident in the campaign that we had put forward and knowing that we were professionals through and through, that we were kind people through and through, and that's all we could do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Because there was some mud slinging.
SPEAKER_00:There was.
SPEAKER_02:There was. Hugo, did you hear about the mud slinging?
SPEAKER_03:But mud slinging. What mud slinging.
SPEAKER_02:Do you know what that means?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, I I think so.
SPEAKER_02:Because you weren't sure about just ice. So it wasn't. That was a joke before we went live. Yeah. But no, because sometimes it doesn't translate well, whatever. But mud sling. There was. There was some definitely some controversy, some drama and things like that. I think almost every election at some point you're gonna have that. Uh, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Uh and I didn't realize that they were busting on on the the good guy right here in front of me. That's unbelievable. What did what could anybody bust on guy for?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm not sure. Um, one, he's not running for anything. So This is true.
SPEAKER_02:That's right, yeah. He'll run from something, but not towards it, right?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you don't think he generally is running towards danger, which we're very appreciative. That's right.
SPEAKER_02:Are you still like a cop or a fire department? Or what you're you're all that.
SPEAKER_00:He's with the sheriff's office. He's the captain.
SPEAKER_02:So you do run towards stuff.
SPEAKER_00:He's the captain of the warrants and the canine unit. So yeah, he runs uh towards a lot of very serious situations.
SPEAKER_02:I run away. I run away from that stuff. That's what I do. That's okay. That's the same thing. Yeah, that's right. It's all right. That's exactly right. So so no, so uh we were what were you talking about there? Oh, yeah, there was a lot of there was mudslinging and stuff like that. Did that calm down right after the election then?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Yeah, okay and that felt very good. Um my campaign never participated in any mud slinging, we were never part of it. We never said one bad word about any other candidate. And that was something that we said from the very beginning.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, when we decided to run, I said, I don't do that in my personal life. I'm not gonna do it in this campaign. Um, and that was something that my team I made stick to. That was the worst part of running. And every morning I would wake up and the first thing I would do was check Facebook and it was for negative comments. And that really that's really a shame. It's um because again, I'm not running on anything other than my qualifications and experience. And if that resonates with the public and they want that in their next judge, that's all I can do.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:So that really the mudslinging really takes effect on a person. And you know, they say As much as you try and ignore it, right? Absolutely. People can say ignore it, but it really I'm not a terribly emotional person in in that kind of aspect, but it still weighs on you. And people would send random people would say F you, like send emails saying F you. When of course they were anonymous, but like That's crazy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, I don't even know you. Yeah, it's not necessary.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And also I think sometimes when you um when somebody is is dissing somebody that you care for, you know, you it's a lot of times you can take it yourself if it's about you, but when you start busting on, they always say like I as as somebody it's a a parent. You know, when somebody somebody busts on my kids, it's a lot different than busting on me. Right. Or my wife. If they bust my wife, if they bust on me, it's like, okay, whatever. You know, it's fine. But when it gets to the next level, that's not cool. And I believe in that in all politics, you see people that bring the children into um, you know, into the the the whole uh drama, and it's just not right.
SPEAKER_00:Right, it's not right, and like I said, it my husband is not running for anything, so yeah, um I don't understand why why we're I don't mean this disrespectfully to him, but why are we talking about him? Oh man. Um he's not running his qualifications, his background, whatever. That's not I'm not gonna call him every time I have to make a decision. Well, of course not. Yeah, don't do that now. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, of course she doesn't. He's like she never has.
SPEAKER_00:But so all that to say, like you can say what you want about me if you don't agree with my experience, you don't agree with my qualifications, you don't agree with what I stand for. That's fair game. But he doesn't have the voice. He does he's not coming on your podcast to explain his side of the story. And so I think that's really unfortunate way of politics.
SPEAKER_02:You know what was interesting too, I saw during the last when when you gone through the elections, is sometimes even you're not even stirring the pot for the other candidate. It's people that are supporting you that stir the pot. Yes and you and you really can't control that. Right. That's a little tough. But but it's it's like it's anything in life. If you can't control it, then what are you gonna do? That's the way it is. Right. That's the way it is. So moving on. So the mudslinging questions over with, we're done with that. So when is the next, when's the next election?
SPEAKER_00:November 4th.
SPEAKER_02:November 4th.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so getting back, who is now supporting you? I do you still have the support of John Adams and Eric Weeknick, all those people?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Um, so John Adams, our district attorney still supporting me, Eric Weeknick, our state representative. And I recently, as of last night, received the county fraternal order of police endorsement.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, cool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so that's a very exciting. So I have the City of Reading Fraternal Order of Police, the State Police, and now our county. And I also recently received the Plumbers Union endorsement. Nice. So that's really exciting because that usually goes to a Democrat-leaning candidate. And so I had the opportunity to speak in front of them, and um, I'm really honored to have that. That's everyday lives. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You got that right. You got that right. I'm telling you what, plumbers, man, they get paid more than anybody now these days. Isn't it incredible? Seriously. You look what they make per hour, it's unbelievable. Yes. We need more people in the trades. It's definitely a little plug for the trades. So when you when you we can explain this a little bit now, because when when you were here last time, we were telling everybody, look, there's no there's no Republican or Democrat involved. But what happened after the election is that there was more Republicans that voted for you than Democrats. But you also had a really good turnout of Democrats voting for you. So that that's what determined you as being the Republican candidate for, you know, Republican candidate for judge.
SPEAKER_00:That's correct.
SPEAKER_02:Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So I had the most total votes, Democrat and Republican, but I had more, I only had the most Republican votes, if that makes sense. So I am the Republican candidate, but I did have a decent amount of Democrat candidates, but my my one opponent obviously received the Democrat candidacy. Sure. So um and I'm really proud of that. I'm really proud that I had the most overall because I'm not a politically motivated person. I am a do the right thing person. Um the court of common pleas, I think a lot of people get confused on it. It is a trial judge position. So politics have zero place in that courtroom. So when they're you're coming in for a criminal case or you're coming in for a custody case, you, the victim or the defendant or whatever party you are in that court system, you should not know what party affiliation your judge is. And if you do, that judge is doing something wrong.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. Yeah, and and it's fun. I think what happens is in the spotlight is federal judges.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:And what we see in the media is the Supreme Court justices and all this stuff. And and what happens is I think they everybody thinks that every judge situation is the same way. And it's not.
SPEAKER_00:It's not. So the Superior Court and Supreme Court, even just in Pennsylvania, you do know their party affiliation because they are the ones making interpreting. Interpreting. That's not the position I'm running for. You're not interpreting the law. Right.
SPEAKER_02:You're you're you're saying somebody's guilty or not guilty, but there's also the the you have the we talked about this, the jurors.
SPEAKER_04:The jury, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the jury.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I think the best way to explain court accompanies is most people aren't coming into the court system because they're either victims of crimes or charged with a crime or going through a divorce. They're not. That's generally people are not coming into the courthouse. Most people are coming into the courthouse because they received a summons to appear for jury duty.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yes.
SPEAKER_00:The dreaded jury duty. I don't dread it.
SPEAKER_02:I I think it's cool. I mean, to me, it if I can get a couple days off and be be involved in the way our system works, to me, it would be very interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we need more people like you.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but I think a lot of people feel that way because they don't know what's going to happen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so it is a big decision to say one of your fellow residents of Berks County is guilty of a serious crime. Yeah. That's a big deal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_00:I don't mean to downplay it, but that's why I'm running for judge. Because we need a judge, and we have very good judges, but there's an open seat, and I think we need to fill that with another judge who has trial experience. Because if you think about it as a scenario, you come in for jury duty on and you don't know what you're coming in for, but when you get to the courtroom, they say, Oh, this individual is charged with first degree murder.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Most people in Pennsylvania know that if I say they're guilty, they're going to jail for the rest of their life. Or it could be a death penalty case. That's a big deal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. That's a pretty big responsibility.
SPEAKER_00:So you as the juror, you want to know all the evidence.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You want to make sure that the judge is allowing the appropriate evidence in that they're excluding evidence that shouldn't be used against the defendant, that they understand the rules of criminal procedure. So that way we're proceeding accordingly. And that when it comes time to listen to the jury instructions on the law and put the facts with that law, that you have a judge who can explain it because it's a big deal to say guilty or not guilty, guilty for that person who's facing that charge and not guilty for the victim and their family. That's a huge weight on somebody. And I don't think you get a judge who hasn't done those things in court in front of a jury before. So you have I practice the rules of evidence every single day. I go to court every day and I'm held to a standard of being able to admit evidence. And it's not just like, hey, I want to introduce this and I don't have the right people and the rules don't allow for it. You have to know, and you have to be able, a judge has to be able to make a decision on the spot and make sure it's going to hold up by the superior court.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, because that's you're right, because then it's also your reputation. If it does get appealed or goes up to the to the superior court, then that's and then it gets if that gets changed, then that doesn't look good for you.
SPEAKER_00:It doesn't look good for me. And guess what? If we if I, as a prosecutor, make a really poor decision and I get the judge to go along with something that shouldn't have been admitted in, we're trying that case again. Yeah. That's a lot of money on the court system. The tox pay, yeah. Yeah, jeez. Here we go. Plus, like let's say that that I did something wrong. Well, now I've held someone in jail for an extended period of time who maybe shouldn't have been in jail in the first place.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So the job is very serious.
SPEAKER_02:Why the hell do you want to do this? I'm listening to this going, you should just stick with where you are.
SPEAKER_00:I want to do this because I love Berks County. I grew up here and we need judges because I want to go to Target and be safe when I go there. And I want to I want my family to be able to do that. And I don't, you know, during this campaign, people are like, oh, well, all the crime happens in the city. That's not true.
SPEAKER_01:No, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:And we need to be able to be safe. And the only way we can do that is by holding people accountable. Now, accountable means a lot of different things, but it always means taking ownership for whatever mistake you made.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Um, and so it's interesting you said about the the if you ever I always look in the newspaper when there's these big drug busts, you know, things like that. And it's amazing how many people don't live in the city.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:In those drug busts. You'll see Sinking Spring, you'll see Wulmelsdorf, you'll see Rabazzoni, you'll see all these different places, and it's amazing. But a lot of them are not in the city.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:They're right, they're your neighbor. They're your neighborhood. Yes, yes. But no, it's crazy. It's really crazy. So you speaking of that, you actually were the lead prosecutor on Berks County's largest fentanyl bus.
SPEAKER_00:That's correct. That's incredible. Yes, it was an awesome experience. Um, we seized over four kilos of fentanyl.
SPEAKER_02:Which could kill the whole county, probably.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah, it only takes 0.03 grams. Um, that's enough to fit in like your fingernail. That is incredible. And that's enough to kill you. Um so we executed a search warrant, seized um four kilos of fentanyl, a ton of cocaine, a ton of synthetic. So, and I don't I won't go off on a tangent too much, but I don't know what you know about synthetic cannabinoids. Um, but they used to call it synthetic marijuana.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it's a leaf that you put out and then they sp spray it with formaldehyde. And then and then people smoke it. This individual was spraying it with fentanyl. So people who believe that they were just going and buying synthetic marijuana were buying synthetic cannabinoids that was laced with fentanyl.
SPEAKER_02:So kill them, they're done.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:That's crazy. Yes, unbelievable. That's amazing. Why and my thing I was thinking about with that, why do they want to do that? They're killing their customer. You know what I mean? Like that's like, hey, I'm gonna go buy an apple and I'm gonna poison it. Well, guess what? I'm not buying any more apples then.
SPEAKER_00:Unfortunately, sometimes fentanyl users, heroin users, they build up a tolerance and that 0.03 won't kill them. And so it gives them a different thing.
SPEAKER_02:So they do build up a tolerance for that. Oh, yeah. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_04:You know, you know what? See what we're saying. That maybe if I was a drug dealer, the reason why I will do that is to introduce you to the drug, maybe to get you hooked into that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I get it. Yeah, and that's what they do.
SPEAKER_00:I that's we don't need any new ideas. I saw, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02:So uh Hugo's gonna be going to rehab next week. Oh my goodness. No, that's that's very interesting. Very interesting. So what um so you're candid. You're you're the guy that you're going against. Okay. What's what are the differences between the two? I think a lot of it is the trial experience that you're bringing up. That is that you have that experience, and your and your opponent does not really have that kind of experience.
SPEAKER_00:That's correct.
SPEAKER_02:Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I um we both worked in the public defender's office or um I worked there for five years. I don't know exactly how long he was over five years, so I don't know exactly his years. Um, and then I went to the district attorney's office, which is a different transition. Um, but that kind of plays into my social work background that we talked a little bit about last time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so I'm the only candidate who's gone been a district attorney. I'm the only candidate who's held individuals accountable for their actions, um, who's prosecuted a case. And the big thing about that is whenever I go into the courtroom, I have the burden. The Commonwealth always bears the burden of proving someone guilty. And that's not an easy task. And I don't mean to pat myself on the back, but it's not an easy task. And I think even more importantly, is all of my convictions have been upheld on appeal, meaning they've been found guilty by a jury. That individual appealed, and the superior court said, nope, the law was correct, and what I did was correct. And so I think that's really my biggest selling point on me is I'm following the law as it's written every single day. Like again, this isn't a political thing for me. This isn't a a stepping stone. This is what I do every day.
SPEAKER_02:It's a pra you've been practicing this.
SPEAKER_00:Practicing it in the district attorney's office for over nine years.
SPEAKER_02:As opposed to when somebody I mean, I know that your opponent, I guess, is what is it called? A magisterial? What is that the the district is it a district court or something?
SPEAKER_00:So magisterial district justice is um just so we know the difference between the two two. Magisterial district justice is the lowest level, then the court of common police, and then it's the superior court and supreme court in Pennsylvania. Magisterial district judge, they're all throughout Berks County. Yeah. Um, in your area that you learn.
SPEAKER_02:That's where I used to go to evict tenants.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. When you evict tenants only because they weren't paying.
SPEAKER_02:It wasn't like I was like some badass or something. No, it was when they weren't paying, and then I would have to do and I didn't like doing it, but I would have to go there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So and that you don't have to be a lawyer to do that position. So anyone who lives in that area and is an adult can run for magisterial district judge.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:The Court of Common Please, like I said, is the trial judge, and then Superior Court reviews what the trial court has done. Gotcha, gotcha. Yeah. Wow. So even Brad could be that kind of judge.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I could be uh Yeah, we don't want we don't think I'm good.
SPEAKER_00:MDP.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think I'd like I don't think I'd like to wear the robe. I just so let's talk about that. What's the deal with the robe?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Is that just from back in the George Washington days? Like that's what they wore? Yeah, and then Thank God they got rid of the guys wearing the room.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I was told I have to do that.
SPEAKER_02:No, oh my God. No, that's crazy. I need one of those, but you know, but no, but the robe is just I I think in my mind when I was thinking about asking that question earlier today, I was like, yeah, what's the deal with the robe? And I think maybe what it is is is to differentiate you from everybody else.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And I think it's a symbol of imp importance, and I don't mean that in import what you mean. There's a a standard when you come into the courtroom that you know right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And unfortunately, I think we're getting away from that. So I like the the robe in that aspect. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, I'm not saying I don't like it.
SPEAKER_00:No, I know, but I think I think, you know, so often we've become so casual in think about when COVID hit and everyone was doing, you know, Zoom or Teams and people were showing up in their pajamas. And um, I'm sure everyone has seen the video of the lawyer who was couldn't change their filter from a cat, and and obviously that was a a mistake, but we've become so casual that I think the courtroom is still something that represents like the seriousness of why you're in there. Because it's not a it's not a commonplace.
SPEAKER_02:And there is like a whole I've I've been in courtrooms as as a witness, not as anything bad. But um been in courtrooms and and it's you know, I think it's cool how it's uh it's definitely a way that you address they address the the judge and things like that. And it's funny to see that because you always think of attorneys as being like, you know, and all of a sudden they're like, Your Honor. Yes, they're like, you know, like cowering, Your Honor, yes, sir, no, sir. You know what I mean? It's just funny. Right. But it's cool, it's a respect. Yeah, yeah, I get it, totally get it. So uh any you have a question, don't you, there?
SPEAKER_03:I have many questions, but I'm going to limit myself.
SPEAKER_02:You're not gonna do any more jokes, are you?
SPEAKER_04:No, no, no, no. Uh okay. Something I never understood was um the different degrees when when life is taken. I know there's like murder, there's homicide, there's first degree, there's second degree, but I never knew what makes one or the other.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So one of the things you just said, murder and homicide, they're kind of synonymous. Homicide means the intentional killing by another. Oh, okay. So um, so suicide would be the intentional killing of oneself, homicide is the intentional killing by another. So murder of the first degree is the intentional killing of another person. Uh, murder of the second degree is, for instance, it's usually a felony is committed and in during occurrence of that felony, someone dies. So, like you go in and you plan to just rob the gas station. And during the process, you end up killing the clerk. Your plan wasn't to kill the clerk, but in the commission of committing that robbery, you've killed the clerk. Oh, okay. It was not premeditated. Right. And then there's third-degree murder, which is you caused the death of someone else. It wasn't premeditated, but you acted in with a cold heart, so to speak, and they don't mean like callous. They mean like you weren't planning it, but you meant when you fired that gun, you should have known that it was going to kill someone, but you didn't mean like you didn't set out that day to go kill that person. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_02:Gotcha.
SPEAKER_00:So they call it a wickedness of the heart.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Wickedness of the heart. There's one. Yeah, don't do that.
SPEAKER_00:It's like a subject.
SPEAKER_02:Don't do that, Hugo. No, no. No wickedness of the heart over there.
SPEAKER_04:Now, I have one more question. When I have always thought in growing up in Guatemala, the exposure to both the crimes and the processing of the of the perpetrator was a little bit more raw. And I always I always thought, like, uh is there is there such a thing as as um exposing, is there such a thing as a program to show young men the consequences of of certain actions? Because I always thought, you know, I was exposed to that in Guatemala. But here I I I don't know if it's if there's there's some things that for whatever reason it cannot be done. But I was I when police came to my school to speak, it was it was serious and it it made me really open my eyes. I wonder if there's you mean like kind of telling them what what what happens if you do this as a yeah or even allowing them to come into the courtroom to see sentencing or something like that. I don't know, but it was it was just a thought. It's a good good question.
SPEAKER_00:It's um we don't do a and I don't know why, to be honest with you. I think that's a great point. We do um the district attorney's office does go into schools and we talk about um unfortunately, we have to talk a lot about a teenager sending naked images of themselves or their kids don't get that, yes, and the everlasting consequences of of doing that. So that's really where we do a lot of our outreach because there's just so many It happens all the time. Yeah, it happens all the time. It's um can put you on the sex offender registry and you can be 16 years old and really have ruined your life um because you technically have sent child pornography.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and so imagine students dead just that just happened recently at a school. Right.
SPEAKER_02:There's a there's uh obviously no names or anything like that, but um yeah, it's there's a guy that that's getting nailed with that. And it was they did pictures, they did, you know, other things, and it's just stupid.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and obviously I'm not talking about the the situations where a teacher or a staff member might be inappropriate, but like you're 16 having a relationship with a 15-year-old, and you're that's it, you're screwed. And so we do a lot of outreach as as it relates to that type of crime. Um, I do think, and maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong on it, but I do think that a lot of people know in Pennsylvania, like in Berks County, the consequences for shooting a gun or like a murder, something like that. Most people seem to know like that's a life sentence.
SPEAKER_02:And um But for other things, I think you're right. Like just like stealing and like stuff that's stealing or getting into drugs and getting caught with drugs. What does that mean? What does that look like? I mean, it's not like you're you're not killing somebody, but I think sometimes maybe kids don't know, or young adults don't miss that know that you're screwing up your life.
SPEAKER_00:So I actually had a case um where it was a teenager charged with with first degree murder, and there were three of them, and and two fired down the middle of the street, and one of them I had the opportunity to speak to, and I said, What if someone would have walked out of their house or like a car was driving by and they said, Oh, I never thought about that. And I'm believable. But that's the the problem. They were 16 years old, and the thought that their bullet won't go to their intended target rather than hit someone randomly was really crazy. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_04:Catherine, Catherine, one last question. I know one last question. So are are you either as a prosecutor or as a judge, will you have the opportunity, you know, how whenever, despite your position, your involvement in the case, that you want to talk to that person, whether it's the perpetrator or the victim, not as uh not as uh an official position, but just from human to human. Like when you see, you know, the the shame or or you know what a shame it is that a person are you as a persecutor allowed to say, hey, to give a personal m message or to have a personal conversation?
SPEAKER_00:So I can't talk to somebody if they're represented by a defense attorney. But one of the things, and and like I said, we did I'm pretty sure we discussed it last time is I actually was a social worker before I went to the public defender's office, and then I went to the DA's office. And the reason I switched from the public defender's office to the district attorney's office um is because I was still relying on someone else in the district attorney's office to make a good decision for what I perceived as someone who had a fighting chance at life and they were just still at a bad hand initially.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So um, what I do now is if that defense attorney can bring me something and saying, hey, this 18-year-old is really trying hard, this is their situation, yeah. What do you want from them? I generally say, I want them, you know. I've had a unfortunately I've had a couple 18-year-olds who are still high school students. So I say, I want them to graduate. I want them to have a plan for after they graduate. I don't care what the plan is, military, vocation, college, go right into the they have to have a plan in place. And then from there, what is it that caused that underlying behavior? Because if we just put them in a job, well, we're we haven't addressed the issue. So what is it that's causing them to be in this situation? And that's where my social work comes into play. And that's something that not everyone in our office handles it that way, but that's something that I hope to be able to bring to the bench because it great. That was rehabilitation. Right. It has to be about that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Otherwise, they're just it's just a revolving door. It keeps coming in and going out.
SPEAKER_00:If you put someone in jail for one month, what does that do? It makes them lose their house, it makes them lose their job, and now we as taxpayers are supporting that. So let's find the appropriate remedy. I'm not saying that people won't go to jail. I've put a lot of people in jail for a lot of and I'm very I don't want to say I'm proud of it. Well, there's people that believe that.
SPEAKER_02:I mean that's some of the problem today in our society is that I think we go too far the other way sometimes. We're letting people out.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:You know, the no cash bail and all that stuff you hear about, you know. It's just not it it doesn't work.
SPEAKER_00:It does not work. And those people who and I think that is a huge thing that sets me apart from my opponent. I do not agree with those bail conditions. We had an individual at the Berkshire Mall who raped a 16-year-old.
SPEAKER_01:Ugh.
SPEAKER_00:That guy got out the same day he was arranged.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_00:That's unacceptable.
SPEAKER_02:That's that was the imagine that being your 16-year-old. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:That is a threat to our community.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Right.
SPEAKER_00:Those are not the individuals I'm I'm talking about in terms of I gotcha, yeah. You know, but those suffering from drug addiction and mental health, like let's get them treatment. So we're not figured out. You know, we as taxpayers aren't continuing to support that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, it's good stuff. Good stuff. There you go. So to wrap this up, why don't you, you know, if you want to give us your um, you know, your candidate speech or you want to just say a couple things to to the audience and say, hey, this is why you should vote for me or whatever, that'd be great.
SPEAKER_00:Sure. So um one, thank you very much for having me back on.
SPEAKER_02:You're very welcome.
SPEAKER_00:Um, but I think most importantly, this is a trial judge position. And so when you come into court, you want a judge who has been there, who's done it, who understands the law, and can explain it to you in a way so you are making, as a juror, making an informed decision because somebody's life on either side is on the in the balance there. Um, whether it's family court or civil court, if you have a business, you want a judge who can explain the law so you are getting you know that you're getting a fair shake. Uh family court, the same situation. You don't want a judge who's party politics. And you want someone who has held the burden and owned the burden and done it successfully. And again, my convictions have never been overturned. I've been involved in over 50 murder cases.
SPEAKER_01:Wow.
SPEAKER_00:That's a lot of murder cases. Too many. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and so I think that trial experience really sets me apart from my opponent.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I think, again, like I said, well, like you said, we can't have these cash bail situations. We need to be, you know, holding individuals accountable.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I I think, I mean, you got my vote. I think we said that before. You got my vote. I appreciate you coming back too. Thank you. And I wish you the best. November 4th.
SPEAKER_00:November 4th.
SPEAKER_02:Get out and vote. And that's everybody in the county can vote.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Everybody in the county.
SPEAKER_00:Democrat, independent, republican, doesn't matter who you are.
SPEAKER_02:They can pull the lever for you.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. Please do.
SPEAKER_02:Sounds good.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:We will be doing that. All right. That's about it. Make sure you vote for Kathleen Lehman, Republican candidate for the Brooks County Common Please Judge. Uh, yeah, I think she's gonna get it. I think she's in good shape. What do you think, Hugo? I think so too. I think so. All right, that's about it. Come see us every Thursday at 7 p.m. right here. Rad Wiseman Show. All right.
