Unshakable Leadership with Heather Younger

This Week's Guest: Heather Younger

Chaos at work has a way of exposing what’s real. When the market shifts, a reorg lands, or anxiety spreads across a team, people don’t look for a perfect leader. They look for a steady one. That’s why I sat down with Heather Younger, a leadership and workplace culture keynote speaker, researcher, and best-selling author known for her work on caring leadership and what she calls becoming unshakable.

We get into the nuts and bolts of what “care” actually looks like on the job. Heather breaks caring leadership down into clear, visible behaviors like active listening, building trust, creating psychological safety, and setting expectations that eliminate confusion. We also challenge the common mistake of treating care as “being nice.” Kind leadership can include tough feedback, guardrails, and accountability that protects the team and helps people find the right fit, not just the comfortable path.

Then we go deeper into self-leadership and self-regulation: values, fear, progress over perfection, and the ability to pause before you react. Heather shares why selective vulnerability matters, how leaders can acknowledge hard moments without spilling stress onto their people, and why steadiness is a practice, not a personality trait. We also preview her upcoming book, The Unshakable Team, including the canoe metaphor and practical tools like a team stability scan and a steadiness index designed to help leaders navigate uncertainty.

If you lead people, build culture, or simply want more resilience at work, you’ll leave with a clearer playbook for trust, emotional intelligence, and stability when it counts. Subscribe, share this with a leader who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

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Welcome to The Brad Weisman Show, where we dive into the world of real people, real life, and everything in between with your host, Brad Weisman! 🎙️ Join us for candid conversations, laughter, and a fresh take on the real world. Get ready to explore the ups and downs of life with a side of humor. From property to personality, we've got it all covered. Tune in, laugh along, and let's get real! 🏡🌟 #TheBradWeismanShow #RealPeopleRealLife 

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Transcript

Welcome To The Show

SPEAKER_02 0:00

This is gonna be a good one, Hugo. The Brad Weisman Show. Real people, real life, and everything in between. What do your kids think of this?

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Oh damn, still in every.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

I'm not here for the money, but I'll still take it off the Unfiltered Conversations with the people shaping our world. Because you're judging yourself by your intentions, they're judging you by your actions. Exactly right. You know what my wife said to me? You go to work and you give everyone the Mitchell buffet, and you come home and you give me the scrap. And now your host, Brad Wiseman. All right. We're back again. Oh my goodness, we have so many great guests. It's just getting to be more and more fun every single time we get in here, Hugo. I gotta tell you. So uh yeah, we have a we have a real good one. This is one I've been looking. I've seen her on Instagram, saw her on Facebook, saw her on YouTube, seen her all over the place. She's in a lot of different places. She's a really good keynote speaker. She's written three or four books already, has another book coming out in September, and her name is Heather Younger. I'm gonna read her bio first, and

Meet Heather Younger

SPEAKER_02 1:03

then we're gonna we'll bring her on. Uh, Heather is a leadership and workplace culture keynote speaker, researcher, consultant, four-time best-selling author whose work helps organizations build leaders and teams that can weather any storm. Named on Inc.'s top 50 leadership and management expert and thinkers, 50 Radar, thought leader, Heather brings more than 20 years of hands-on experience leading teams through high-stakes situations where results mattered, people depended on her, and decisions couldn't wait. So we're gonna bring her on. It's Heather Younger. That name is real easy for me to say. Thank goodness we have a name that I can pronounce. You know, sometimes we get guests on here and I get a little nervous because their names are a little bit more difficult than mine.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Yeah. So how are you doing? My family's name. I'm doing great. But when you say that about names, my husband's name, so my married name is not very easy. Well, it's easy, but not for most. So then my all my kids have the same last name, but they don't have my last name. Younger's easy. And one, they just keep messing up. So I'm just like, nope, I'll just stay with younger. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah, no, younger's easy, and and it just has a nice flow to it. Heather younger, you know, that's you'll never get older if you have a name like younger.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Oh, well, you hope that's the case.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

See, look at that. That was a commercial right there. It's a commercial. But no, so thanks for being here all the way from Colorado. How's Colorado doing?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

It's wonderful. I I walked early this morning and I am going to be doing that this afternoon because it's just like when you're in the sunshine, how can you not be out in it? You know, it's a gift.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

It is a gift. We're a little rainy here today, but that's all right. We're getting past it. It's it's we need that so that the grass looks green and everything else looks nice. So yeah, I just want to jump in here. You you're very much into the unshakable leadership. The unshakable just kept coming up everywhere on your website. Everything was unshakable. And I just love that because the term is not something that you hear a lot. You know, you hear all different kinds of things like undefeated and all things like that, but unshakable. What does that mean to you? And why, where did you come up with that term?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Well, I wouldn't say like I wouldn't say I came up with. I mean, people talk about unshakable, it's it's been out there, right? I initially

What Unshakable Really Means

SPEAKER_00 3:12

had thought about it in the context of a keynote. And and the where I came from, it's so interesting. I have a my book on self-leadership. It started me down that road. I saw in the audiences, in my focus groups, in the leaders that I speak with, and I work with on the consulting side too, this sense of like abdicating responsibility and being shaken a lot. And the the world was like coming down on people and then having the ability to cope. And I just kept seeing all of this, and and then I started to see like a mirror. Um, and I saw that what what I was seeing in the world had at some point been inside of me, and some portion of it was still inside of me. And so I had a very similar struggle. And so as I was first, as I was starting to think through some just my strategy and some changing on my expansion of my brand, I was like, I'm gonna have a keynote based on this. And someone said, you know, I actually think that could be your new umbrella because before my umbrella was on caring leadership, and caring leadership is still embedded underneath Unshakable. So caring is always there, it's like listening, caring, it will always be there. And it was the forward messaging based upon what the world was asking for and needing and what I was sensing in the world that I needed to kind of adjust that overarching brand identity. So that's where it just I went from the smaller to the much larger and in Heather fashion, I always think in the form of an ecosystem. So it's like I'm gonna have an assistant, I'm gonna have a workshop, I'm gonna have a like I have all the things. I have my becoming a shakeable podcast, like everything is an ecosystem. So that's kind of where I go. I go all in or I don't do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

That's cool. Very cool. That's where I'm at now. And where did where so where did you start? Did you always do this kind of work or where did where did like give me a little bit of your past?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

No, I'm actually a trained lawyer. I don't practice anymore, I haven't for many years. So law was where I started at, and then I moved it into large account management sales, and then kind of customer experience and then employee experience. And all the entire time I've been leading teams and lead teams for over 20 years in environments that were full of mergers, re-orgs, tech shifts, layoffs, disruption. And

From Lawyer To Leadership Work

SPEAKER_00 5:26

so I realized, you know, that's the other part of this whole unshakeable thing, is I realized I had been underestimating how closely connected I am to my audience. What I mean by that is I had already lived a life full of pressure, change, looping over things, hitting walls, falling down, like getting bruised, all the things inside the work environment in a leadership role. And I thought, why have you talking about it with little bits and pieces, but you really hadn't been elevating it to the extent that you should to really help your audiences know that you know who they are because you've been in their shoes versus there are other people who speak on leadership who had not led teams before, actually. And so I I just really was underestimating the power of the lived experience, a shared lived experience and what it would bring.

SPEAKER_02 6:15

Yeah, it's so true. There's a lot of times you'll find that people have read about it or have coached on it, but they never really did it, you know. And and that's that's the there's a big difference there on all of that. And you know, the thing that that stuck out to me was the I love that let's get into the caring leadership. You know, let's kind of touch through the different books that you've written. You've written a book on the art of carrying leadership. And, you know, there's it's funny, we just did a podcast yesterday. I was we recorded on, and and it's funny the different spin that people have, not spin, different ways that people look at leadership. And that the person we interviewed yesterday was much more of a well, the weakest link gets fired was very much about, you know, that kind of more of uh building a sports team as opposed to a caring type family for work.

Defining Caring Leadership Behaviors

SPEAKER_02 7:02

And and I'm a Keller Williams, you know, franchise owner, partner with other owners, and we're all about culture and caring leadership and and making people feel good, you know, and and that that produces a better result from from people that work around you. So just tell me a little bit. I I think that's kind of where you probably I didn't read the book, but I read a little bit about it. So tell me a little bit about the caring leadership.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

So one thing that's interesting to know about the book on caring leadership, and because this is, I think this journey is so is equally is interesting. So my very first book was The Seven and Food of Laws of Employee Loyalty. And the first chapter of that book was Give them Good Supportive Managers. The next book on the art of caring leadership was basically my effort to define what a good supportive manager looked like, and I just defined it under the umbrella of care and caring leadership. I have a registered trademark on it, I have assessment on it, I have a I have all the things around caring leadership. I and here's why that was initially. I was in work in workplaces where the leaders didn't get it. So I'm not saying they didn't have any element of care. I think they all thought they cared, but they they didn't show it in ways that were really clear to the me and to the team that was looking to them for guidance in some way. So this art of caring leadership has you know, is based on hundreds of interviews, all of my employee focused group work I do. And I put together, I said, let me take all this research back stuff and give people be very clear behaviors that demonstrate what care actually is instead of it being this squishy nebulous thing. So I was that was my that was what I did. Then what happened is from the caring leadership book, I wrote the art of active listening, which is yet again another chapter instead of carrying leadership, but I just like I just said this is extremely important. So now I'm gonna take a portion of that and I'm gonna peel it away because listening is so critical. And then I did the same thing with self-leadership because self-leadership is the first chapter of carrying leadership. So what happens is I get inside the work I do, my head gets inside the work and it gets like big. And then the world speaks to me, the audiences or whoever I'm at. And then I'm like, shoot, this one is actually what the world needs right now. And then I hyper focus in on like a particular area. And sometimes sometimes I zoom out, and sometimes I zoom in, depending on what just again, what I'm hearing in the macro micro world that I'm in. So carrying leadership is that it's the nine behaviors of caring leadership, and it it is a it is the effort to define and put some actual like meat on the teeth of what care looks like, instead of just saying it but really not knowing what the heck you're talking about and not having anybody have a way to measure that.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah. And do you find, have you found, or in your experience with this, that that type of leadership is ultimately more productive than the totem pole per type setup or the I'm your boss deal with it kind of a setup. You know what I mean? Like that's kind of the old school way of doing things.

SPEAKER_00 10:01

Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on how you look at it. Like if you look at it, you don't hear Elon Musk being some like squishy, nice, caring leader, and he does quite well.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

There are a lot of other leaders you hear that are not the kind of leader I describe. I'm talking about the kind of leader I'd like to work for and that most people would

Kindness With Accountability

SPEAKER_00 10:18

enjoy and like to work for, and how we would actually like to live our lives and feel like we're doing great, meaningful work because we're doing with people who care about us. But there are people who might maybe don't listen so well or don't empower us as much, or don't there could be some elements they don't do that might still get a get a good result. But will people actually like go the go the length for you? Like, what are they willing to do for you? Like what level of loyalty are you wanting to get so that people are willing to like stay late, like be in it, like locked in? And and the caring side is I think what delivers that. Yeah, sure, stock options, like all these things are, of course they're great. Those are those are other things that are other benefits. But this is from a like a human to human relationship.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

I was just gonna say it's just being human. It's being human, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, and like in your work you do, I mean, it's like all human. Yes. And if if I don't trust you, I am so not gonna have you help me buy a house somehow. I'm just not doing that. So that way of leading, it can't be that you're right, like the command and control type of thing. It cannot. It has to be okay, like I want you to show care and concern for those who are looking to us to help them with their next purchase or to sell or whatever. And and so, in order for you to do that, I should probably embody that.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

Yeah. And you know what's funny about too. Yeah, it does. And and what's interesting, I'm thinking about it now from the the last guests we had, and we were talking about different things. It's it just seemed to be very there's a lot of parallels here of the guests we just had yesterday we were recording. And what's interesting too is caring just like a a parent can mean tough love too. Yes, you know, there's there's times where people are in positions that you know, I we they talk about this all the time. Some people get pushed into management positions and they never wanted to be a manager, but it was kind of the natural progression, and all of a sudden, oh, okay, well, they they want more money, they've been here for a while, we're gonna put them in management. And then they don't do well in management and it doesn't go well. Well, the the caring or the tough love part is realizing as a leader, we need to realize that this might not be the position for them. Maybe they were actually happier and more productive for the company not being a manager.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yes, exactly. It's uh managed management is not for everyone, it's not for the faint of heart. It's not easy, and you're right. I am uh I uh when I wrote The Art of Caring Leadership, when I do the second edition, I'm going to go deeper into accountability. I do believe that. And that's coming up, that will be coming out after the next book. I will probably start on the second edition because the publisher wants me to, and I need to. And it's because I don't think I went far enough with informing people that while the way I talk about care and caring leadership has such a human, warm, relatable, trust-field like way of being and talking, that it just does. You you don't show care for people if you don't set clear expectations. Yeah, you know, if you don't hold them accountable for something that they that you've empowered them to do. So you need to empower them after you delegated. And so I think the I I went, I barely I touched on them, but I didn't go deep enough. I didn't help them understand how much care and concern they show when they are clear, like not ambiguous with what's needed. They show a path forward, but allow people to do things within their own space with guardrails, and then how they how to hold somebody accountability um accountable with care and concern.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Yeah. Yeah, no, it's good. It is, it's just funny because you know, everybody thinks when you say, you know, with our cultural and everything else in Calla Williams, one of the things that we talk about is is, you know, just be having when somebody's not doing maybe the best job or they're not fitting into a position, you're actually doing them a disservice by not recognizing that and maybe bringing up that this might not be the right thing for them, or it might not be the right job, period. You know, and and they might be better off somewhere else or in another position with another company. You know, I think that's and I think sometimes it's not about firing somebody, it's about what is the best position for that person. You know, that's to me is is being human, also, you know.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

That's showing concern and kind. So caring leadership to me is showing concern and kindness towards those who look to you for guidance in some way. And so concern and kindness, not niceness. I don't ever know this is not nice.

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

But kind being kind is sometimes showing people a different path.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Yeah. So yeah, it's it's interesting. But good stuff though. So yeah, let's get so self-leadership, the art of self-leadership, let's dig into that a little bit. You know, let what tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

Well, I mean, it self-leadership was that first part of caring leadership. And again, when you look at the world that kind of abdicates responsibility, acts in a way that's not very human at all. When you just see what's happening in the macro environment, you go, oh boy, like if they could learn to lead themselves more effectively, like, and if we all could do that individually on our own shoes, how

Self-Leadership And Self-Regulation

SPEAKER_00 15:19

much better would the world be? So some of the things that are in in included in self-leadership are things like, what are you, what do you value? And uh what do you say you value, and how does that actually show up in your behaviors? And do you check yourself? How much do you understand what your fears are? And how do you how do you let some of them like, you know, they do stop you from one certain things and how they let you propel you in other things? Progress over perfection. What is your view of performance or even just taking action or risk? Is it that it has to be fully baked, or it can't be good enough? And what is that? What's your definition? And how does it, what how do you measure that? And that's a couple things. Communication styles and self-leadership. How are you understanding other people's communication styles? How are you meeting people where they're at in the moment? There's just a lot of different angles. Obviously, resilience is in there too. You know, do you have the ability to bounce back? Do you look at self-care from a that's not only just for the woman who's in a bubble bath, that's for everyone. How do you learn to center and ground yourself? How do you, you know, kind of calm yourself enough so that you're regulated before you respond to people? So those are all like part and parcel of what's embedded in self-leadership. And interestingly enough, that whole care, recovery, calm, groundedness is what leads me to the unshakable team book. So inside of self-leadership, I wrote it primarily because first I needed it.

SPEAKER_02 16:53

Interesting. You needed it.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Secondly, I needed it. Like I saw, again, like I just told you, it was a mirror. So I s look, I I saw what was happening in the world, and usually when we see something so pronounced, it's usually in us. Oh, yeah. It's the mirror image theory. You know this, right? So it doesn't mean it's all in us, it just means there's something about what we're seeing in the world that's in us, and we need to battle. Exactly. And so for me, I was like, ooh, and so I had a you know, some awakenings that took place, and I and in that it came, I realized I needed to write this, write this for me, and write this for everyone else who struggled with a lot of the things that I had struggled with over the years. And in that time, the thing that I think spoke to many people and to me was this idea of grounding and of being centered and uh coming from more of a place of regulation, self-regulation, and not from a place of spillover, you know, not being dysregulated basically, and not decalming or being a stabilizing presence for those around you. So interesting. That was a big kind of awakening for me. So every time I write something, it's normally, it's not just off the freaking, it's not off the cuff. It's coming from what I hear. Because I'm in, I'm doing like employee focus groups with you know, hundreds of people. I'm on podcasts like this, so I'm listening just like you are here. I'm in the audiences with thousands of people. So I'm and and I'm hearing and I'm talking to them afterward, and I'm seeing how they receive the content. And so because I'm so present in that and I'm paying attention, that's what helps me determine where's my like next level of content. What should I be focusing on next?

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Yeah. Well, it gives you your material. Yeah. Because you're you're feeding from you're feeding from from what people need or what what they're what they're what they're not what they're not getting somewhere else. So, you know, you're there to to write it and and make it make it possible. That's great. Very cool. So let's talk about the the podcast, Becoming Unshakable. So you have all kinds, I mean, how many episodes? I mean, what any of your best guests or any kind of stories that you have from your podcast?

SPEAKER_00 18:55

So interestingly enough, because you never ask this question, but I tell you the thing that's underneath the thing you're asking, Brad. So the I actually have had a podcast since 2018, and it was called Leadership with Heart. Okay. And I interviewed people on leaders in that show who tend to be more emotionally intelligent. So they tend to be more

Why She Rebuilt Her Podcast

SPEAKER_00 19:13

of that carrying kind of leader, but they're not perfect like none of us are. So I would always find the story of when they weren't so great and what happened and how they come out of it. That's what ended up inside the art of carrying leadership book and in some of the listening book as well. That's cool. So what happened is when I just when I kind of had this like after the self-leadership book, and I was really seeing the world and how everybody was just off their rockers with concern and stress and anxiety over all the change and all those things, right? That's when I said, you know what? I thought I'm getting a little bored with my other podcast. I was just feeling like less inspired to the interviews. I was doing them every week. I've been doing every week since 2018. And I finally said, I feel like I need something else there. And then when I got to the point where I had this thing, and then I had someone who I, an advisor who I respect, say, I really think this should be your new umbrella, I thought, dang it, this might, I think this is this is the iteration. Like there's no changing it again. Like this is the final iteration of Heather Younger and what I do, right? So I'm becoming as shakable as it. And so that's I just decided to do that. And I decided to do, I've had people tell me different things. I decided to put becoming in front of it instead of some other words that people gave me, because I do think, as you alluded to earlier, that we are all works in progress. So we're all in the process of becoming something by choice. It's by choice. So I'm saying, what are the choice? I'm kind of putting up shining a mirror and shining a light and saying, what choices are we making? And what's making us one way or another, and what makes us feel more stable, more steady, what makes us feel more, you know, less that way. And again, talking to people about the times when, ooh, something shook them.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Like, what was it? What was it? And what again, what did it look like? Who was involved? Where was there anybody who showed up with care and compassion for you during that time where you were shaken? And I always so I'm always trying to like meld in all the things, all the stuff I've already built, but I have such a strong foundation of content and thought leadership that I meld it into the next level of the thing. And so in this case, with becoming unshakable, I'm always like putting in all the different layers with the guests who are on there. Cool.

SPEAKER_02 21:19

You know what's funny when you said about the unshakable thing, about that being your thing now, that is what caught my eye. It is just the word unshakable and just the way you, the way everything you had, it caught my eye. That was, I mean, you know, we get a ton of requests now, which is we're blessed to have that ability now. We're getting a lot of requests to be on the show. And it's it's just cool, but you know, I don't, you know, something like that caught my eye. I don't even know why. Plus your energy. I could tell your energy from just looking at your Instagram page. Like when I look at an Instagram page and it wasn't all about you. There was other things that there's a lot in there. You know, a lot of times when I look at these Instagram pages, you you see it's like it's just that person smiling, posing. you know, whatever. And it's like, it's just funny because that's not, that was not you. You were you're an inaction on your in in your Instagram page. There's little blurbs about things. You have quotes, which I love. So it's cool. But I just want to let you know that that unshakeable is what actually caught my eye. Even the font, the way it's written. The font, the way it's written is is really cool too. Yeah. It's just it's oh I love that.

SPEAKER_00 22:22

Thank you. Well you know what it's like I don't I don't know if it was the right thing. Like I don't you know thank you for that. I don't we'll see. Yeah you know this is this is also a business move. So yeah, you know, you see what this does for business. You see how it works with a direction. So there's there's just there's just a lot of newness right now. And the newness just like the people on the other end are experiencing you know anxiety unsettledness because of the unknown and the guessing I'm putting myself purposely in the position to be in a similar spot than they were and it's not comfortable all the newness.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Well but you're you're you're obviously handling it vet very well.

SPEAKER_00 22:59

So I think I think it's this is this is what we do. If I can't if if I can't actually do walk the talk I might as well just give up shingle and you're becoming unshakable.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Just remember it's becoming it's not it's not you're there you're not there we don't arrive.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

We never arrived at the carrying side like nobody nobody I just feel like nobody ever arrives to anything. We might arrive to a destination like we're going right but that's about it. I went on vacation I row I arrived to Italy.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

That's right and even and even then you know is that might not be it. That's not the end. It's not the end game. That's true. So let's go into some of the stuff that I had here with because today's teams don't need leaders who are perfect and performative. They need leaders who are aware regulated and and trusted in moments of uncertainty. I love that that was somewhere I don't know where I got it but it was somewhere in on your website or one of your one of your places. I just thought that was neat it was really cool. And I don't know if you want to expand on that but I mean the team thing obviously is what you're you're writing about now it's going to come out in September of this of this year. The unshakable team let's talk about the unshakable team because you know you you you went from the art of caring leadership the art of self-leadership the that that stuff is all leadership and now it's the unshakable team. So it's it's just a little you know because everything was leadership and now it's a team. So just tell me how did you transition to the team part?

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Well it's interesting because I mean even even if you notice

The Unshakable Team Canoe Map

SPEAKER_00 24:21

all my books are like super artistic and colorful they all have the art of theme and then I switched on this book away from the art of but I wanted to still wink back to my previous brand on the artistic. So the the book if you haven't or like seen it on Amazon because I don't I actually don't promote it much but you saw it on Amazon. I don't promote it yet because we're getting to the point where we're starting to duper promotion. The that book it's still a leadership book. I mean we should just be clear I've got 20 years of leading people so my main audiences are people who lead people. Gotcha I mean it doesn't mean I don't speak to everybody and if I speak to everybody I'm talking to them about self-leadership or listening but more often than not that is who I'm after and and now with the unshakable team I'm really after that top tier leader. So I'm really after the VPs or above they're the ones who impact the culture the fastest.

SPEAKER_02 25:11

I mean in your case of you know one of the founders the owners the agents like Gary Gary Keller is the one that he's the one that started well Gary Keller is the one that created the the idea of the culture of our company and then you know it's been carried through from all the other leaders that he the people that he attracts also are all about culture. And that's why you know that's how this kind you probably know Keller Williams very well and you might have spoken at some of their places I have not spoken for I I did no that's not true.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

I did do I did do no no I did no I did the realtor the a realtor the realtor association do Keller Williams.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Yeah so it's but you you I'm sure you're aware because I mean they're they're everywhere like franchises.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

Yes. Like you and your team your leaders and everybody that franchise leaders. Yeah. This unshakable team well any of my books would obviously speak to you because you're leading people but this particular one it would be about in the market that's we're currently in and I I I'm very aware of like some of the shakiness and unsteadiness in the real estate market and just the stuff that's happened just generally. Lots of mergers yeah yeah where are they like what they feel what they're feeling they're all like what's happening and everyone my business and all the things right and so this book is a it gives it's like a a navigation guide for leaders to say in in the in the midst of pressure and uncertainty how do we how do I as a leader first show up as that steady stabilizing force and I mean I I hammer that in pretty pretty much in this book is like I mention it at least 20 times like hey and I'm gonna say this again you as the leader decide how steady your team is how stable they feel and here are the things but giving them you know I so some of the things I put in there listenings in there psychological safeties in there what do you the things you do to build trust in there but the bit one of the biggest things I talk about is what decisions can people make? How clear are they about what you expect from them? How clear about that what it is the heck they can do and cannot do. What are the ground rules? How do we move it so the entire book is based upon the metaphor of a canoe and it's based upon a story a personal story from one of my children. And so the entire book is about this story of a canoe and how we as leaders on the canoe how we can help people navigate even when the waters get choppy and how much they look to the shore and we help them see that through our values and our norms. So like I said to you before there are certain things that are different in it but what I've really done is just it just exploded the different concepts from all of my work and then tweak them with the language because again the the metaphor itself how it how how it drives through I think it'll speak to the people in a different way. So I give them this thing called the canoe map and there's different zones within the canoe and based upon that those are there are different things they can look at the beginning of the book there's a team stability scan that helps them understand which parts of the book are going to be more relevant to them after they complete the assessment. And then at the end of the book there's a steadiness index assessment where they can as a leader say how how good am I how strong am I how steady am I how much how much am I stabilizing my team and it gives them a score for that and it gives them kind of a report. So I have lots of tools inside this one that I'm hoping will really serve again as that navigation guide for the leaders who are facing a lot themselves. They have just there's so much anxiety at the leadership level so much lack of enthusiasm and then there's this lack of trust and a lack of feeling stable by the people that are looking to them. So there's a lot of work to be done on on all sides. Yeah. And that's what I'm hoping I can help to do.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Yeah there was something that I saw that you wrote on the one of the things there I saw is that you said you at one point in one of the places in your career you came out all frustrated and made the mistake of showing your frustration because you didn't take the five minutes to just chill out and and gather yourself. You came out of the meeting and you were frustrated and and and and lashed out in front of whatever not lashed out but you showed your emotion or your your frustration in front of the team and it and it did some damage I guess or it did some hurt because you know because they look at you as being this strong trustworthy got your shit together you know kind of person and all of a sudden you come out and and they're like wait a minute you know so it that was pretty cool. And that's the that's the art of being unshakable.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

You don't want to look that way coming out to your team right that's exactly right and and that's right and there's something I call selective vulnerability so there is a there is that like we are human. So there is a need to be selectively vulnerable so that they know I am impacted by this change like the reords the layoffs right there's a lot going on right now that have like massive consequences inside of full workforces in the world where also the macro and the micro is I

Selective Vulnerability Without Spilling Over

SPEAKER_00 29:54

was a big world and then the world inside their organizations and the world inside their homes right it gets smaller and smaller. And so what I did by sharing that story and and I've got other stories like that because I'm open about like a layoff and how I experience it. This re-orgs that's what I was talking about in the little two reorgs I'm the leader and I come out of it and I'm just like and I'm completely shaken right and I don't have a way to I just didn't figure out a way to manage to it and I didn't know what to share. I didn't know it was safe to share I didn't know what I should be doing. And I realized when they saw me that I shared too much and that I did more damage to them and their psyche and their ability to move through the change than I thought that I did. And so I it was it was a big wake up for me. It made me realize that I do have to be more a more regulated person. I do have to take the time to breathe and to steady myself and to stabilize me I always think about I don't know about you do you do exercise at all like do you do do you do this which one do you put what do you prefer to do when you exercise I do a good fast walk that's what I do.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

I'm not a big big yeah I I walk two and a half miles every morning.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Nice so walking is beautiful for you right and another thing that's so good that's just it's actually foundational particular as we get over 40 let's just say well way over that core. Me too me too but you know I had to I did not for anybody who's listening over 40 it's still it's it works is strengthening our core. So and it doesn't necessarily mean like tons of ab exercises either core is also like hip like it's just like whole middle section. I always thought it was just my stomach it's the back exactly so when you do that it allows you for example like when you you you might not fall off balance as hard. So like the falls that we have to avoid over so you want to stabilize your so the what I'm trying to do in the book is say I want to give you tools and a system that stabilizes you and the team so that when the next change happens, when the uncertainty hits and it's just right there, it's like the next one's happening. It's like tomorrow what are things you can do that say we're not gonna we're not gonna completely tip we're not gonna capsize in the boat. We are going to shift it's gonna move we may feel upset we may have the human emotions inside of us but we will not capsize because we put the systems in place. And that's what I'm attempting to do in this I'm doing it because I've been there done that and by the way I'm writing a book about it.

SPEAKER_02 32:09

Yeah no it's good. That's good. Well it's it sounds like you're passionate about it too which is really cool. Uh let's get into you you there was something that I read here let me just many of us tie our value to external achievements or the validation of others but self-leadership begins with recognizing that your worth is inherent. And I I just put down love this I I always say that I always say that don't lead into a situation with your accomplishments lead with you. You are the only thing unique in all situations. That's what kind of what I got from that

Worth Beyond Achievement

SPEAKER_02 32:38

but it was just interesting I I saw that and that's what it kind of came out to me. That was good.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

I don't know if you want to you know talk about that at all that that how how that came about yeah I mean I struggled early on I'm the only child come from an interracial and interfaith family and I was often the outsider in the family well you've got a lot of stuff going on there only child interracial inner and what was it inner faith my mom is white and Jewish my dad was black and Christian. So my God interface that's amazing things I even have drug addiction that was in my home. I have all kinds of stuff there's all kinds of stuff and there were messages that were you know as a kid there's like these messages that you don't think you're having but there's messages that you receive and the message is that you're not good enough that you don't belong that something's wrong with you right so I I spent just uh just way too much time of my life grappling and dealing with that even though I'm like again people are like you're the person who has the stuff together like he said you're the steady strong person. You're the one who whatever right yes and two things can happen at the same time they can both exist at the same time and I was having that struggle of of that and I got to the point where I had gone to a retreat a few years ago which is where the self-leadership book came from but the beginning story that is about a retreat I'd gone to and I'm in I as I'm there I have an awakening because I'm going there because I needed clarity because I was feeling off kilter and I go and I come out of that and I'll I'm not gonna go into full much into the story because this this would take way too long but this that story alone is an amazing story to have but I come out of this story this and I this this situation and I'm like wow like I have been covering who I am in clay my entire life like I have been covering it up I've been showing sides of myself that are they're there but I've just been hidden like it's just been like just little slivers of it but not this whole thing. So this whole idea of you are good enough you are worthy just because you are you are loved because you are is the thing that like the that the end thing that came out of for me. And then it then it gave me permission to just be fully me to unapologetically me. Now I say unapolog unapologetically me but that does not mean that I can be a jerk to other people. Okay I'm gonna say that because the I believe in authenticity but when it knocks up against another human that makes them feel yeah I don't that's not what I'm saying here. I'm just saying for me in my own skin, I felt more comfortable to say I can now show more of myself so that you are loved, you are you know worthy of of all the things and you are wonderful who you are like all of those things was a message I needed to deliver other people and I said that it's a mirror. So I knew I I had the awakening and I realized that every there were so many other people in my audiences people I was talking to that just were battling with that same thing of just not saying like I am you know you're good because you are you that is it absolutely period you don't have to prove that one more thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Absolutely right that's the that's the message yeah it is that's a cool message and and I I appreciate you sharing that. Yeah. So uh I think we're gonna be wrapping up here for uh for in a little bit but I just wanted to how do people get in touch with you? You know what how do they reach out? How can they see you? I know you have great Instagram is that the place to go website you tell me where they where they should go obviously buying the I mean I I put content on all of them.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

So I put I put content it's I mean I'm mostly it's the Instagram link LinkedIn's my biggest following so that's the place I've I'm there I've been there the longest so LinkedIn Instagram Instagram is Heather R. Younger official I believe and then yeah wherever else like you just put a you put in Heather Younger the odds are you'll find me somewhere we're gonna find we're gonna find you right we're gonna find you somewhere that's awesome.

Where To Find Heather

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Well thanks so much for joining us today. I wish you the best luck with uh the book The Unshakable team it's coming out in September right we'll be looking for that I appreciate you you know being on the show and we look forward to having you back on the show and um that's about is there anything else you wanted to say before we end?

SPEAKER_00 36:36

No, no I can't I can't wait to like at some point be traveling and come actually see you in New York.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Yeah yeah you got to come to the studio here you we'd love it. It's a good time. All right thanks so much Heather I appreciate it. Wow there you go Heather Younger gotta love that name too self-leadership unshakable leadership she has a book coming out September 2026 that's this year the unshakable team so you want to check her out you can go to her Instagram page and look up Heather Younger hit her website. She's everywhere believe me you type in Heather Younger you're gonna find her. All right that's about it see you every Thursday at 7 p.m all right thank you