Healthcare Facilities Network
The Healthcare Facilities Network podcast highlights the essential role of facilities
management in delivering high-quality patient care. Hosted by Peter Martin, this show brings you expert insights on the issues, trends, and solutions shaping the future of healthcare spaces. Learn from industry leaders and discover ways to drive positive change in your facility.
Healthcare Facilities Network
Advocate Aurora’s Apprentice-to-Intern Pathway: Cultivating Future Facilities Leaders.
Advocate Aurora is tackling two major challenges in healthcare facilities: an aging workforce and aging infrastructure. In this episode of Healthcare Facilities Network, Ryan Koney, Manager of Facilities Operations at Advocate Aurora Health, shares how the organization’s innovative Apprentice-to-Intern program is cultivating the next generation of facilities leaders.
Ryan walks us through how the program bridges generational gaps, preserves critical knowledge, and secures C-level buy-in — all while preparing younger professionals to take on future leadership roles. From practical strategies for succession planning to fostering collaboration between Gen Z and Boomers/Gen X, this episode explores how Advocate Aurora is creating a replicable model for healthcare systems nationwide.
Whether you’re involved in facilities management, workforce development, or leadership strategy, Ryan offers actionable insights to help organizations future-proof their teams and infrastructure.
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So in about in 2018, we had a conversation with leaders. We're going to face the silver tsunami and that's that's coming, and it's it is actually here now. All of those that are going to be retirement eligible are going and they have the best knowledge of anybody. There's so many things in a hospital background nuances that only this guy knows and only that guy knows. So we wanted to capture that information and capture that data and bring a new talent to the system. So we worked and developed a program. It's a 5,200 hour program. It's about two and a half years program. It's about two and a half years. It's a mixed bag of school and work, just like a standard apprenticeship. You know your plumbers, your electricians. The technician works at a location. He goes to school, whether that is for five hours a semester or for 10.
Speaker 2:There's a major crisis facing healthcare facilities management. We have aging employees, aging buildings and aging infrastructure. We've created the Healthcare Facilities Network, a content network designed specifically to help solve, for these three pressing issues in healthcare facilities management. We bring on thought leaders and experts from across healthcare facilities management, all the way from the C-suite to the technician level, because, at the end of the day, we're all invested in solving the aging issue. Thanks for tuning in. Look at our videos. You will find that as a theme across our content. This is the Healthcare Facilities Network. I'm your host, peter Martin.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, peter Martin, joined today by Ryan Coney. Ryan, why don't you introduce yourself? My name is Ryan Coney. I am the Facilities Manager for Advocate Healthcare at Aurora West Allis Medical Center. I've been in the healthcare industry for about 14 years with Aurora Healthcare. I started as a technician and progressively worked my way up into leadership roles and started off as tech for about seven years, got into leadership, worked as a supervisor for several years and then made the transition into a managerial role covering entire sites and multiple sites at times and kind of progressed through different areas in the market and just kind of moving forward again with my career, looking for more opportunities and here to talk about an exciting program that we offer here at Aurora Healthcare.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's, you know, aurora has a great. One of the goals of our network is to publicize that this opportunity exists Because, as you know, ryan, we're losing people on a daily basis and we just don't have enough people coming in, and so we need innovative, new ideas to kind of capture that next generation, bring them up and have replacements for all the boomers who are leaving and all the retirees and all the people who are burnt out. Whatever the reason is, we're losing them. And I would like to talk to Ryan about a unique program that Advocate Aurora has in Wisconsin with the Wisconsin Healthcare Engineers, with Milwaukee Area Technical College. We'll delve right into that, but before we do that, ryan, you talked a little bit about your career progression. How did you end up a technician in a hospital? What was kind of your career path before that?
Speaker 1:So I kind of worked in like a nursing care facility so I was kind of familiar with healthcare maintenance. I did have some military background. So an opportunity for a brand new tech at one of the clinic sites, more of an entry level type opportunity. So I interviewed for that guy across the table was was a was a Navy guy too and we struck up a conversation. We had a lot of things in common. He understood my path and he was willing to teach me all the things of healthcare that you're going to learn in when, instead of working in an outside facility, when you're working in healthcare, it's a whole different. Animal Infection prevention measures and codes and standards are so much more different. So he was willing to show me and that was really my entry level into Aurora.
Speaker 2:I've always felt and tell me if you agree that capturing people as they come out of the military I mean military folks with their background, their training kind of the mindset can really slide in well into healthcare facilities management. I think you tap into a lot of what you did in the military. Do you find that and have you found that?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and it's. It's across the board, even if you know, take your basic person that was in the army infantry that they're skilled in in combat. They have skills in leadership and organization that can be applied in the facilities maintenance program. So great opportunity. If someone comes across my desk, that's got that honor. I want to interview them and even if I don't have a spot for them at my site, I will look for other places in our organization. That's a good fit, because those people are. They're well-rounded, they're versatile and they're skilled and they're they're dedicated to their job, and that's what we really like about those types of people.
Speaker 2:So you just tapped into something that I've said, that I really agree with and other leaders in healthcare facilities have said. You said when somebody with that resume comes across your desk, even if they don't have healthcare experience, do you like to look at the resumes? Like to look at the resumes, even like you and HR? Do you screen them as well too, so that you can kind of see, like that Navy person or the military person, you know what.
Speaker 1:It isn't one for one, but they can work, absolutely, I think I definitely work with my HR team when there's openings, and even in general, my name gets passed around due to the apprenticeship program, where other applicants will just reach out to me. Hey, this person knows a person that knows you. They offered me your number. Hey, let's have a conversation, let's talk, give me some information. Yeah, I served over here and did this Great. Let's see what's available in that area or if there's something at another site that we can do. So I'm very open and I'd really like to have those people because they're of value.
Speaker 2:Yeah, open and I'd really like to have those, those people, because they they're, they're, they're a value. Yeah, that's funny that that was kind of you know, coming out of the recruiting world. That was my mindset and obviously we're doing two different things. Right, you're actually running a hospital. I'm just looking for people in hospitals, but you never like all of those conversations. You never turn them down because you never know where they can go or what you need in the future.
Speaker 1:And it's another opportunity, and I think this is one thing that I've kind of learned with the expansion of our program. One of the things that I do when I go out and talk to people the healthcare industry is not doctors and nurses, it's so much more than that. It's your facilities technicians, it's your cooks, it's your lab technicians, it's your finance people, it's your cooks, it's your lab technicians, it's your finance people, it's your security people. There's other jobs that they may be talented for, that you can swing them in that direction. So it's a win-win when those candidates come through, did you?
Speaker 2:know before you started in the field that you know you're in the military. Did you know this field, this career, this path existed?
Speaker 1:Absolutely not. I just thought, you know, to get into a hospital who knew it was just by chance that it kind of came along. And then, once I got here and realized how many different jobs there are, it's just, it's amazing. This is an actual city in a small city block.
Speaker 2:Exactly, you know it's. It's funny. You said that's funny. You said that I often think of this, especially as we're struggling to bring people in. Every one of us, no matter what you do or who you are. We all have going to hospitals in common how many times in your life? But yet you go through those doors and, like you said, you only think of doctors and nurses. You never think of the city behind the wall that you're running.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. All the infrastructure that's got to be in place making sure the lights are on, making sure the heat and the cooling is going, making sure the water is going, making sure it's sterile for everybody, all the equipment's functioning right the vacuum systems, the medical gas all that. There's so much infrastructure that takes place that we're actually responsible for in the maintenance field that you never really notice, unfortunately. Now when I go to the doctor's office, I'm actually looking at that kind of stuff and looking at the ceilings and taking a peek at things. But if you don't know the general person, yeah, they don't understand how much background is going on.
Speaker 2:Are you able to turn that off when you go to the doctor's office or the hospital?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, my kid's kind of dad's talked to him on that.
Speaker 2:I think every father in the world would be really rich if we had money for each time our kids told us that right, yeah, either that or dad, you're embarrassing me, that's right, that's right, yep. But I think it's probably a prerequisite and most dads enjoy embarrassing their kids in some way, shape or form, just to get that out of them.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. And you say yeah, I know how to fix that, I know how to do that. Yep, oh damn.
Speaker 2:So I got to ask you. You used the word sterile and you talked about everything you're accountable for just because of who our audience is. That background that you're sitting in front of is pretty impressive. Where was that?
Speaker 1:This is the boiler plant of Aurora Medical Center Summit. It's four 800-horse Cleaver Brooks boilers and we produce steam. We produce steam for heating and cooling. Obviously we produce it for humidification. So in the winter time when we get these seriously cold spells, humidity drops low. We've got to add humidity because you get static buildup and static buildup on medical equipment can short things out. So let's just like you rub your feet on the carpet and you touch something. You can't have that in a healthcare industry so we got to inject steam into the airflow to eliminate that. Also. We use the steam because it's hot and it cleans things. We use it for sterilization, so cleaning all the sterile tools after surgery, and so this plant behind me is running 24-7, 365.
Speaker 2:When you were in the Navy. What were you on subs? What was your background? What was your Navy background?
Speaker 1:I served in a kind of a law enforcement capacity. I had a mixed bag, I was a bosun mate but also worked as a I forgot what the customs officer. So I did a variety of different things. So I did some ship stuff but also some law enforcement stuff.
Speaker 2:Cool. Were you technically inclined prior to going into the healthcare field?
Speaker 2:No no, no, well, really interesting. So now, with what you just explained, kind of about the humidification and everything you need to do, I wouldn't have guessed that. That's why I asked you what was your Navy? Were you on like those nuclear sub-guys? Were you on the ships? Very impressive, how did you? Because that you know from the recruiting world we'll often hear that too, and I think this ties into our discussion. People will say, oh, this person doesn't have the technical background, I can't hire them, they haven't worked in that. You hear that frequently. You're, you're showing that, yeah, that can happen. How did you learn and how'd you pick it up?
Speaker 1:And a lot of that is through the leadership of who I had as as leaders. So I was green, as green can be. I didn't know what a VAV box was. I didn't know what an AHU stands for air handling unit. I just didn't didn't know how filters Okay, I had leaders on and coworkers that brought me in, showed me this stuff.
Speaker 1:This is the. This is what you did is. This is how the equipment works, and it created a desire to learn more. So as I got to, got to work with it and the hands-on working is great. It's a great, great tool to to expand your knowledge so you can get in the field, grab what you're doing and learn it in the background. It just makes the it's fun. I think it actually makes the job more enjoyable when you're picking stuff up.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I started from nothing and progressively worked up and it took some time. So once I was ready, I decided you know what I'm going to go back to school, utilize some VA benefits and work on getting associate's degree. So I got to that point. Then that put me in a small leadership role, continued on with that and I thought you know what I want to climb the career ladder. So I got, went for my bachelor's and then got into a managerial role and now I'm actually starting for my master's. So we're going to keep going. I start next month, so we'll just keep progressing forward and see where the career ends.
Speaker 1:But healthcare is so broad, it's a great place where you can grow in any direction and if you can find it in facilities, guys we seem to be kind of the knuckle dragging, wrench turning guys. We can be, you know, self-closed, but when that's a really tight group we're a very team orientated group. We want to share and we want to teach and when you get a group of guys like that, it helps. It helps everyone move forward.
Speaker 2:So I do want to jump into the apprenticeship program. But what would you say, given your background, where you came from, where you are, how do you try to assist human resources and I say that not in a negative way, because HR, like you said, it's a very unique field. What you do, HR, they don't focus on facilities management and they may not know what those keys to success are. What are those hidden attributes that you look for in a person that HR may not, or that you try to work with HR to kind of develop that checklist?
Speaker 1:I think that's definitely one being teachable. I don't care if the guy doesn't know what a screwdriver is or a hammer. We will teach that. If he's willing to learn and has a passion for learning, that's great. One of the things I like to do is those candidates that don't have a lot of background bring them in on a tour as part of the interview and show them. If they lighten up and if they say what's that? How does that work? You guys do all that. That starts to spark some interest. Then you know, okay, he's interested in this position. And if he's teachable, that's what we're looking for.
Speaker 1:It's great to have the guys that are all skilled that can come in and hit the job running. That's really what you want, but nowadays that's really hard to find. A lot of our candidates have very, very limited technical skills and almost none with healthcare experience. So that's that's the challenge that we face. One of the things that I think I work well and Aurora has done here with the HR side, is they've assigned one HR rep for the entire state of Wisconsin that only does facilities. So any manager can call our HR rep and say, hey, this candidate doesn't work good here, but it might fit over there. We don't have an opening or if they can look at a resume, ryan.
Speaker 1:What do you think of this? Well, look it over. Yeah, there's a potential here. Let's do that. So it also builds his skill in resume reading for his facilities candidates.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. You do that tour kind of as you know, because when you're sitting in front of somebody with a piece of paper that can lie, but you bring them out and you see what that natural reaction is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's go for a walk. Let's walk and talk during this interview, because I want to see how you react. If their eyes are open and they're excited, okay, you've got someone that's definitely willing. If someone that's closed up, doesn't really ask questions, I think you're just filling out a resume for the job, just an application for the job. So that's been a real helpful tool an application for the job.
Speaker 2:So that's been a real helpful tool, yeah, and conversely, they see if they like it, because you're taking them to those mechanical rooms, you're taking them to the sub-basement.
Speaker 1:You're taking them everywhere, do they like it? And also, I think one of the things that really came from COVID was when I take these individuals around and let's start talking about infection prevention measures. You got to gown up. If you want to go into surgery, if there's a patient that's got TB, this is the protection you wear. How do you feel about that? Is that something you're willing to do as well?
Speaker 2:That's a great. Yeah, that is a great. That's a great way to do it and that's kind of a natural transition into the program that you've mentioned a couple of times that we're going to talk about here. But I have to say first, before I ask you to explain what the Internship to Apprenticeship program is and give a little bit of detail, have to first think. We've been talking about how you meet people and how you expand your network and how you end up in these. You know, you and I met through Corey Mishak, who who said, hey Pete and hey Ryan, you guys need to meet each other. So you know, if Corey says you got to meet somebody, then you, you're like you know what, I'm going to meet him because he's a trusted guy.
Speaker 1:Oh, he's been a. He's been a great role model for me, a great mentor. I worked with him for several years with Aurora. We actually worked on formatting this program together and we got it implemented, took off, got it working and an opportunity for him arose. So he took that. We still stay in touch with each other and pass on information back and forth. So he's a great, great guy and you know I enjoy him. I'll definitely give him props for this.
Speaker 2:He is, you know. So I went to Marquette, which is right down the street from one of your hospitals in Milwaukee, and whenever I go out there usually once or twice a year for basketball or whatever Corey and I will meet at Miss Katie's and we will open the place and have some breakfast and cups of coffee. He's a great guy and in fact, you know, I said to Corey for this particular episode and it kind of tells you the type of person he is and I'm sure he's blushing or saying shut up, he's watching this, but cause that's who he is. But I said to him why don't you join as well? And he's like Ryan's the guy. Ryan is running with it and taking it off and it shows you and I think it's, it's right, it's a, it's a trait of an effective leader their ego in check, right and and let others shine and develop others. And that's kind of who he is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a great guy and I like I said this program wouldn't be possible without him and he's kind of guided me in my career as well.
Speaker 2:He's a definite role model for me and still stay in touch and he'd be. Yeah, you know, it's like I, through this healthcare facilities network, I talked to a lot of people and we were at ASHE you know, the ASHE annual just a couple of weeks ago and I did I did a a round table with four women leaders in in HFM, healthcare facilities management, andilities Management, and one of them in particular just talked about the value of mentorship and, as I think back to all the interviews we've done, that mentorship aspect is just so critical to developing this next generation of leaders and bringing people in and it all goes together, works together leaders and bringing people in and it all goes together, works together.
Speaker 1:Again, mentorship is actually how this apprenticeship program continues to build and that's something we can touch on. So what is the program? So it's a facilities healthcare apprenticeship program. It is a state indentured apprenticeship through the state of Wisconsin. It's a partnership with Wisconsin Workforce Development, milwaukee Area Technical College System and Aurora Healthcare. So in about in 2018, we had a conversation with leaders.
Speaker 1:We're going to face the silver tsunami and that's coming and it's actually here now. All of those that are going to be retirement eligible are going and they have the best knowledge, uh, of anybody. There's so many things in a hospital background nuances that only this guy knows and only that guy knows. So we wanted to capture that information and capture that data and bring a new talent to the system. So we worked and developed a program. It's a 5,200 hour program. It's a 5,200-hour program. It's about two and a half years. It's a mixed bag of school and work, just like a standard apprenticeship.
Speaker 1:You know your plumbers, your electricians, the technician works at a location. He goes to school, whether that is for five hours a semester or for 10. They balance out to 40 hours a week and we get that. You know it varies every semester and they continue on. They're going to touch on electrical, they're going to get their ASAPI boilers license, they're going to get the HVAC skills, plumbing, carpentry. We touch everything underneath the program. So when they come out and complete it at the end of the two and a half year mark, they are a journeyman healthcare facilities technician indentured through the state of Wisconsin and we can get them and secure them in a role in Aurora for a career.
Speaker 2:You know, going back to 2018, it seems like long ago now. I guess, right, that's the time before COVID, but anyway. So how difficult was it? So you've got the state, you've got MATC, the college, and you've got Aurora. How difficult was it to bring the three together?
Speaker 1:It was trying to find. The state Wisconsin is a very apprenticeship friendly state. They want to, they want, they push apprenticeships all over and if someone has a design they're they're hungry to do it. So we kind of worked with the state a little bit and talked to them and said, hey, there's this idea of an apprenticeship and they were really interested in the said, well, how would you design it? So they laid out their program and said this is our requirements for the for an actual apprenticeship. Build your program based off this template.
Speaker 1:So we kind of worked through how do we get the hours? How do we do this? The educational standpoint, what do we do for that? Well, the state is actually the technical college system, the state technical college system. We contacted them and they said well, you can take this and work this anywhere in the state of Wisconsin because of the technical network. So we picked our local site, which is Milwaukee Area Technical College, and we had several meetings over several months of what courses are we looking for? How do we design this? What's the best pick? How do we get the best drive, best bang for our dollars, because it's an investment for Aurora as well, yeah, so we designed that out and then passed it off to the state. The three of us all came together, we had a round table, we talked it through, yep State put their stamp of seal on it and said, hey, we're ready to go, this looks good, matc is good and we're good too, and we started the program off in 2019. There's about a year of development.
Speaker 2:Well, I was going to say a year doesn't seem like a long time, especially when you're dealing with a state entity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were well into it and then when we approached the local technical college, they were really thrilled. This is another apprenticeship that they can get open up to individuals and it feeds their system as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, if you can go to a college and say, hey, we've got a program where we can place your students when they graduate, what's better than that? I mean, too many people graduate and they can't, what am I gonna do? Yeah, yeah, how many uh and I don't know if you know this, ryan, how many um locations does matc have around the state? So the technical college system.
Speaker 1:oh gosh, I wouldn't know. But uh, you could take this, this same platform, in Milwaukee, use it at the Green Bay Technical College, use it at the Racine Technical College, because it's all through one system. This template can be used anywhere. So that's the one advantage that this program has is, we could have an apprentice up in Green Bay and have two or three in Milwaukee, and they're just going to their local schools. Now the classes might be a little different, we might have to tweak it, but the base system is already in place and it's just utilized anywhere.
Speaker 2:And is Aurora the only hospital in Wisconsin, the only system in Wisconsin that has like? Could Frodo or any of the other systems, mercy, whatever they are, can they jump in on you? Are you, guys, the soul?
Speaker 1:So one of the other things that, as we were building this, we were bringing in our partners, we were bringing in Freighter Healthcare, we were bringing in Ascension Healthcare, and we all sit that down and we're trying to have these conversations how do we do it? What do we do? What's their plan? How would they fund it? So um freighter hospital has their own, um apprenticeship now and they're basing it off of this. It's a little different the way they they implement it, but it's the same pathway that we have as well.
Speaker 1:What's really nice about the program that the state wanted us to build is the state then can also put that out to other businesses. So Northwestern Mutual, the city of Milwaukee. They have an apprenticeship built off the same criteria we have. They just one line out or two line out anything that they'll need. Northwestern Mutual is looking at doing it. They're going to minus out our medical gas requirement because they obviously don't have medical gas at Northwestern Mutual. But that's the template. It's already there. They put it in, they implement it in their system and they can run with it?
Speaker 2:How do you hit those students when they're coming in to say hey, this is a pathway for you? A?
Speaker 1:lot of it's done through the local technical college system. So they have job postings so we start the apprenticeship. We did that. They're putting out those applications posted on the MATC website and the technical college system website. So when they see hey, there's an apprenticeship position that's opening at Aurora Healthcare, we're getting those candidates that are now interested and some of them are even close to graduation so that apprenticeship could be even shrunk down to a year based on some prior schooling. We've had one tech out at the Kenosha Hospital. He had a year and a half at the Gateway Technical College system. We brought him in. He was done in a year because he had some of the criteria knocked off. So the state approved it and said, yep, he meets the system, he meets all these extra or the additional requirements. Let's put them in. And his time was a little bit shorter.
Speaker 2:If you like this video, please like and subscribe to the network and, more importantly, share it with your colleagues in the healthcare industry. Together, we can solve the aging crisis that's impacting all of us. Is the program open to anybody or is it based on the needs of Aurora at the given time? How does that work?
Speaker 1:So we started off with a handful of seats and we wanted to get this going. It took a while and we wanted to get this going. It took a while. I think the biggest challenge that we had from building this program was getting the C-suite to buy into this, getting a budget built for the apprenticeship program that says, yes, we're going to invest in a technical school for them to go to, we're going to give them uniforms and hours to work and we're going to get this candidate back afterwards. That was probably the biggest challenge for leadership to go. You know what? Let's go for it, let's make this investment, let's set a budget for it and we'll go.
Speaker 1:So I have a limited amount of seats and in 202626 I've actually been told we're actually going to expand it even more. So I'm going to get a few more seats now because over time they have seen the value. We've got seven that have gone through and completed it all the way to the end and they are stellar technicians in the system and they in fact and it's a diverse group We've got all races, ages and even if our first one was a female, she was fantastic and she's she's happy. She just ran into us about six months ago and said you know what? I bought my first home now because of all this. So it really it's. It's really productive to see them grow after the apprenticeship program and they're in their careers.
Speaker 2:So what does the you're talking about, like budgeting for the C-suite? Do you guys pay the cost of the education, or what's the cost to the organization while the apprentice is in school?
Speaker 1:So our organization here has educational assistance for you know, if you're going to go back to school. What we did is we're using that tool to help with the apprentices. So the apprentices there is no cost to the apprentice when they get hired in. They're going in, they're going to be fully benefited right from the start. They go to school, they'll get their class schedule. They fill out the paperwork that we have to do for educational assistance and we've modified it now. So when the technician signs up and registers, they click a button and it automatically pays matc. They don't have to do anything. So, um, so that that's been a benefit and those costs get limited out through the education program. So now, basically, you just have a 40-hour employee, okay, yeah, and you fund a 40-hour employee, huh that's great.
Speaker 2:So what happens? Sorry, kind of like the the nuts and bolts. But what would happen if somebody um, they're halfway through and they're like you know what? This isn't for me. Can I imagine you can drop out of the program? How does that work?
Speaker 1:yeah. So if they, if they go through and say you know what? Um, this isn't working out for me. There is a part of the contract where if you don't work for a minimum requirement, you do have to pay back for the school, that's fine. But a lot of times we would say if you're not interested in this job, stay with an Aurora, let's look at another option. So you don't have to do that and it might be better for you over there. We really don't want to, really don't want people to leave just because they're not enjoying the program. We'll find something for them.
Speaker 2:So it's flexible. I mean you get needs all over an organization. It almost sounds like once you have that person and it's a mutually beneficial, let's keep them in the system.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think we had one guy that he was really interested in IT. Well, he thought facilities would work, but it just wasn't working for him. But he was so computer-based, well, we connected him with the it guys. He was like yeah, okay, let's, let's do it.
Speaker 2:So maybe facilities can infiltrate it in that manner no, that'd be helpful. Well, hopefully you have an ally there. So what's your role in the program, Ryan?
Speaker 1:So I'm the program manager. I oversee all the program. I work with the technicians every single day. They work at other sites, one that works here and all the other ones work at other sites. We meet at least once a month and we go over their work hours because I have to submit those to the state of Wisconsin to make sure they're on track. We network with them to discuss their schooling. How's it going? Do you need any assistance? If they're struggling, we talk to the teachers. There's a meetings with matc. If there's, we see a student that's progressing down. Hey, we got to get you extra work. We've had one uh last semester. He was struggling with uh, with one of the math courses that that are required, and if he needs a little extra time to sit with the teacher, we adjusted some scheduling so he could spend some some time another time, you know getting better at it. So and he eventually passed the class because of it. So it was, it was good.
Speaker 2:Oh, so you're the program manager for the state, so are you also you working with the state of Wisconsin, matc, your local people? It sounds like a pretty good lift on your part, yep.
Speaker 1:I kind of work a little bit. Aurora also has a workforce development team, so that's the team that will usually work directly with the state. With the paperwork side, you have to set them up in a program called BASERS and that's how the paperwork goes back and forth. There's a team that does that. There's Shalita Domino and Latrice Bradshawshaw. They take care of that stuff, a lot of the paperwork stuff. But if there's a need I can call the uh uh wd rep from the state and get direct questions or guidance if there's anything that I need because I just thought of this.
Speaker 2:What type of uh, this would be interesting, or this. What type of feedback have you gotten, like when your students are in the apprenticeship program? What do they say about the field, about the program, like, have you heard anything interesting that you wouldn't normally expect? Because they're again, they're an open book, right, they're coming into this field, they don't know probably a lot. What type of feedback do you get from them both on you know, positive, negative, anything that sticks out to you?
Speaker 1:I think when we first ran it we really didn't have an idea of the course schedule and how it worked out and some of the classes should have been done first in a different order. So that was one of the feedback that we got that we realized, okay, we need to transition, they need to have that plant maintenance basics first. We need to transition. They need to have that plant maintenance basics first, not that second semester. Another thing we got back from MATC and from the instructors was during their boiler classes. There's three boiler classes they have to take. We were breaking them up high pressure, low pressure in one semester and operation in another. Just the way the course came out, we changed all that. We want them all in the boiler class all at once. So they're getting all those skills. So they take their test and they're right, fresh, to do it right after that. So that was another thing that we've learned and just enjoy. They enjoy the program, they enjoy learning. It was a great opportunity.
Speaker 1:I still stay in touch with a couple of our first groups that had gone through and they'll tell me the stories. We sit there and laugh about how they made mistakes at school and got got uh, you know, missed, uh, missed a simple question, but now they know that answer because of all the, all the skills that they've learned. So, uh, they, they enjoy it. It's a great opportunity. And opportunity, and, um, they, I'm getting a lot of communication from other people as, as they're talking about the program, it's getting more noticed too, and I wish I could have a you know two dozen more seats, but, uh, I could fill those tomorrow I was gonna ask that this noise is coming out that this program's great and it's overwhelming to see how it's expanded.
Speaker 2:I think you said you're going to get a couple more seats this year. How many seats do you have currently and what's it going to go to?
Speaker 1:I have four and I'm trying to go to six and then we'll expand it out from there. So the challenge sometimes that we face is when we put a technician at a local site, they're there for two and a half years but when they graduate, is there an available seat for them at that site? Sometimes there is, sometimes there's not. We're not going to say go and leave the organization. We might have to put you at another hospital or another logistically close place. So there's some challenges with learning, but we really want to invest them and keep them at where they're at so they can really go on to their career. It's only happened twice.
Speaker 2:Where you've had to move somebody to another hospital. Move somebody, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got to figure with the rate of turnover and retirements. The numbers game is probably in your favor.
Speaker 1:And now we're seeing that shift where I have a lot of openings. Boy, if I had two more apprentices, we can get them back filled into this spot and that hospital could go. So the retirements are really mounting up for us.
Speaker 2:So is it the cost of the program that limits the number of apprentices? That must play into it a little bit right.
Speaker 1:You can't have everybody. It plays into a little bit, I think, just position-wise. Who are we projecting to leave in the next two years? Who are we projecting to leave in the next four years? We want to backfill those seats and get those people over there. So there might be a site where they're fully staffed and now we throw an apprentice in there, but that's coming out of another budget so that their labor hours are not attached. But when they graduate there might not be a seat at that spot. So that's the. That's the tricky part that we have to navigate.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of hit me. You're doing like you're doing, succession planning at the trades level. We often we think about, you know, succession planning up here at the lead. You know my director's going to leave, who's good, but you're moving it all the way to really where it's important to just get them into that pipeline so that you have future leaders.
Speaker 1:Yes, and one of the great thing about this program is with the technical college system, they're going to get credits as they go to school. Those credits can be applied to a degree so they can go back and get their gen eds, get their a couple other one-off classes. Now they have an associate's degree Boy that's a future leader right there, so we can bring a tech in train them up. He can get skilled, know the building, learn it all. Now we take a really skilled tech and we can put them into a leadership role. That is a really beneficial opportunity.
Speaker 2:Did they owe you when? So, when they come out work for you guys, do they owe you a year or two? It's a year, it's a year, it's a year, and then they can move.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then they can. They can leave your organization, but a lot of them, they, they, they, none of them have done that. That is nice, because they like where they're at. It's a career yeah.
Speaker 2:One of the things that we hear is the competition for young talent is fierce and that often hospitals healthcare. It's harder for you guys to compete against pharmaceuticals or these other areas, but you guys capturing them early on, I'd imagine to a certain extent you're mitigating that risk because you've got them in.
Speaker 1:That's right. I think that's a. You know, we said right there, they don't know what they don't know. So when we bring them in and we train them up and they learn, that's an attachment that they get to the organization. Hey, I want to work for them, and part of what we drive with the program is, even though you're not touching the patient on a daily basis, you're touching the patient in everything you do. The person on that floor is getting better because of everything you're doing over here. So we create a sense of pride in the job and why go somewhere else that you're not going to have that?
Speaker 2:Right, you know that's really interesting. You know you say that because I mean, as you know, the people who work best in this field kind of have the pride, the passion they connect to that patient and again, what you're doing is creating that at the beginning of the career.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. They realize and we talk about it and they say, hey, if that emergency sign is not lit, no one's coming here. It's our responsibility to get that open so people can get can get the care that they need.
Speaker 2:Do you guys do anything with? You just talked about an exit sign. Do you do anything in the 5,200 hours? Uh, regulatory compliance based yeah.
Speaker 1:All they as we bring them in, we how the program, we get started, we get them working with the technician and we assign them a technician who they're going to work with. So let's say they're in their boiler operation classes, you're going to work in the boiler room, you're going to work with that tech, because the skills that you're learning at school you're going to immediately apply on the job. So learn it on Tuesday, on Wednesday, you're doing the job. So that's kind of going to do it Now when we go to electrical, now you're going to work with the electricians and what you're learning over there you're going to spend time with them Plumbers, hvac, whatever they're doing, building automation you just sit down, kind of learn all that. So that's been a great skill because then they can really they feel a better understanding of what I'm learning and how I'm applying it.
Speaker 2:Right. So they're not. I mean, they're learning it out of a book, but then they're practical implementation on the ground.
Speaker 1:And I think one of our big fears when we started the program is we've got all these seasoned technicians and we're bringing a new guy and he's going to steal my job.
Speaker 2:That's what I was going to ask you what have you found?
Speaker 1:So we were we did some just some studying and ask some questions, did some round tables with the group, and how do we, how do we pull this off? And what we? What we really found, was the seasoned technicians. You know, we told them they're not, they're unskilled. You beat them already, so, but we want you to show them and teach them. And really they jumped on it. I was surprised at how well some of those seasoned techs were can be kind of, you know, roughed edge at times, but they're no, come on with me, young man, we're going to do this right here, I'm going to show you how to do it and you're going to do the next one. And they took that opportunity to teach and that has been. That's something I didn't expect to be so open, but they did?
Speaker 2:Did you open so, like when you guys were developing the program, and now you, you know you need those mentors. Did you offer that to your staff, like, if you want to be a mentor, come forward. Or did you approach people?
Speaker 1:Yes, so we, we offered it as mentors, so we only had a handful of people and then we, as those people, saw how it was going, those others in the department well, I want to do that too. I want to. I want to show this guy this over here, because no one else knows this but me, and that's how that opportunity and it really it creates a better network in the department as well, because now you've got some conversations that you didn't have before with team members about what you know and what I know, and it really it actually brought everybody up a step.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. Do you have when you're interviewing potential apprentices? Do you have team members? Are there other team members part of that interview process?
Speaker 1:those technicians come along with us and in fact I then step away and then I spent let them go talk for 15, 30 minutes, maybe take them on them on a little tour and then they can come back and I get their feedback. Yeah, he was interested in this, or he might be a good electrical, you know, electric electrician in the future, or I? I just didn't sense the the excitement. So I really value their input as well.
Speaker 2:Just as we're sitting here talking. This program really addresses so many of the issues we're facing now as an industry, right at the very beginning, to help remedy them. I was thinking we work with hospitals all the time that are losing their institutional knowledge because that 70, 75-year-old person who's been there 40 years they're walking out the door and nobody's got the time to tap into what they know. But you're doing that right. I mean you're developing that next generation with that knowledge in their head, even though they might not get it yet.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I think that's been beneficial for when those retirements happen. Okay, I know that that apprentice, who's now a technician, can handle that job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, have other states. Has anybody come to talk about this program or is there interest outside of Wisconsin?
Speaker 1:So we did work with. Aurora has now worked partnered with the state of Illinois, so we have one apprentice down in Illinois now and they're they have a different state system over there for apprenticeships, so it's a little a little different and they got that through. That kicked off. We're coming up on a year for that, I believe. Now that Aurora has merged with Atrium in the South, we started talking about this program and how could this program in Wisconsin also be modeled down in Georgia, tennessee, florida, north Carolina, all those areas down there? It's expanding out and people such as this opportunity here get this out, get this information out there. The program is, it's designed. I think that was the biggest part is how do you, how do you do all this? Now that it's designed, we can take and run with it and use it for your organization well, and it's great that you, you know you, like you said you've, you've done it.
Speaker 2:And so any of that c level who you know, c level in another state, who says, yeah, it's not worth it. Like you said, you've done it. And so any of that C-level who you know, c-level in another state, who says, yeah, it's not worth it, like you're able to show, yeah, it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can show that the value is there. Our new VP for Advocate Atrium Health is really on board. You see, he definitely sees the value of this and he's becoming more of an announcer of that. This type of organization, this type of program exists.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. What is the you know you talked about? You've got a diverse group. Have you found, like, from an age perspective, what's the range of folks who are interested in the program perspective?
Speaker 1:is there? What's the range of folks who are interested in the program? So we've we've taken um as young as 18 years old, just graduated two days ago to uh been in the field for working in a different job in their mid twenties. Hey, I think this is a great opportunity. I want to. I'm not finding what I want and I want to learn and they want to start later. So it's it's pretty open to everybody and all races have gone through um. We're very diverse, you know. Females have gone through it's and I think that was that was a big challenge at first, but that stigma has gone away, that the uh the dominated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that stigma has gone away and the other team members here have really embraced. You know what it's. Anybody can is willing to learn, it can do it. We're going to work with them.
Speaker 2:It's one of my frustrations. You talk kind of talked about the degree when I was just doing the straight recruiting before joining craft in this role of business development, I would work with organizations and you know they would. They would look, I go back to the Navy. You know guys who were maybe on a nuclear sub but they didn't have their degree yet. They went through all the Navy training that's offered and the organization would look at me and say, yeah, but they don't have their degree. I was like you know, just bang my head. I was like, no, you can't be so black and white. It's like you said what do they have? What is their aptitude to learn? And it's frustrating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know many different varieties, like like the young kids that came in, we had one that was a 18th and he he just graduated the following week. He's an apprentice in our system and it was a learning experience for everybody the age difference gap. He was so pleasurable to work with, he was open. Once he created that network he was able to dialogue a little bit better and now you know facilities just transitioning into more technical stuff. So some of the guys were getting iPads and this. Well, I don't know how to do any of this. Well, ask the young guy now and boom, boom, boom, I'll fix your tablet. I'll show you how to do this. I'll show you how to work the computer. So there is opportunities there too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting you say that because we were developing like a multi-generate, because we have so many generations now in the workforce, even within your facilities department, and that's a great way to marry the generations to each other where it's mutually beneficial, and you connect in a way you probably never thought of before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Some of those seasoned guys. Boy, they struggled with the technology on the computer and they called the apprentice. Can you help me with this? I don't know how to do this. It was that easy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was that easy. You know, I've said this story before. We were working with a facilities department at a pretty big hospital system, and so this is a couple of years ago now. But they were implementing iPads and there was one technician and the director told me this story. There was one technician who was just he called him obstinate, wouldn't do anything, didn't get on board, and so the director one day went to him afterwards and he said is there anything wrong? What can I do to help? And the technician said I don't know how to type on these things and it's like so simple, right, but yet you can't take for granted that everybody knows. And once you unlock that, then yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:Huh, very interesting. So how have you you've developed this program? It seems like you're there, but a couple of years ago how did you have to run the program to make sure it was sustainable, like to keep it in place so that you were able to get some successes? How did you grow through that?
Speaker 1:I our that first batch that came through, that first group of that came through was was rewarding in a sense. But then it was kind of like now what should we?
Speaker 1:do? How do we? How do we? How do we get them out? And then, well, now we have all these seats, what do we get them out? And then, well, now we have all these seats, what do we do? So kind of a circular motion where, okay, we started to do more ahead planning. We kind of waited to the last minute for them to graduate. Now we're not doing that. So I've had an opportunity now and this has happened to the two previous apprentices where we're forecasting is there a position opening at your site? And if there is, we're going to move you into that full-time role. You still have to have your educational requirements for the state, but that opens up your apprentice seat. So that's how we're able to kind of keep it going ahead of time, so we don't run into those stop and stall moments.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know one of the things do you? So you guys you have apprentices, are the apprentices I don't mean this like jacks of all trades your apprentices go everywhere and so you have electricians on staff, plumbers, but the apprentices are kind of the jack of all trades for things. How does that?
Speaker 1:work and and at least at most of our sites, yeah, you're, you're an hvac, you're a stationary engineer, you're an electrician, but you might be asked to do a toilet, you might be asked to oh you know, work on a steam if you're an electrician, because just the manpower. So we, we do kind of cross train and that's why we want to bring the apprentices in, because they're going to touch on everything. Yeah. Yeah, he might say you know what I really like, hvac. So I'm going to start targeting that. So it's a good variety that they get and they can find out what their their likings are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's a good way to do it, because you're bringing them in and yeah, and they see, yeah, we've had some that say you know what I want to?
Speaker 1:I want to be an HVAC guy. So he gets in and do it and they start going through the program. He goes. You know what I really like? Electrical more. That's great we can. We can start targeting that. You know, after your grad, after you complete your apprenticeship, we can start targeting that a little bit further too. So it's a, it's a win that way.
Speaker 2:That's great. So I know we're coming up kind of to the end of a quick hour. I'm talking to Ryan Coney, manager of Facility Operations for Aurora Health out in Wisconsin. We're talking about the Internship to Apprentice Program. What do you? You know as you look out a couple of years, ryan, where do you see this program? Where would you like it to go?
Speaker 1:Where would you like it to go? I would like to get a well-rounded, maybe 10 seats and get it expanded a little. We're really networked right now in the southeastern side of the state. We've had one in Green Bay and it was kind of a one-off and we work with that as we go. But I really would like to expand it north in our area and with the, like I said, with the availability of the technical colleges, we're able to do that. So that's how I want to kind of make. Our next shift is to kind of expand it Fond du Lac area, green Bay and north up there.
Speaker 2:Is there anything that prevents that, or is it more of a focus? What's the limiter to that?
Speaker 1:I think marketing plays a role. There's so many opportunities and there's so much turnover in the metro area that you don't really have it in the northern regions area, that you don't really have it in the northern regions. So getting that known hey, there's an apprenticeship program in Aurora that we can get into. Who's going to know that? In Appleton, wisconsin, not much, but over in the metro area here, oh yeah, as soon as that job posts, I'm going to get a dozen applicants in 24 hours.
Speaker 2:I'm going to get a dozen applicants in 24 hours, so do you post these as apprenticeship to internship program seats?
Speaker 1:It's a facilities apprenticeship position. Okay, so we'll post it on our website for Aurora for Careers, but then MATC is posting it on the state technical college system. So that's how all those candidates are coming in.
Speaker 2:Gotcha Very interesting. So one is final question is there like one? So if somebody is listening to this and like that's great, I got to try to investigate that at my level. What advice would you give them or what would you say to them if they're thinking of why they can't do it? Forget that you're bringing in the next generation. But is there like a practical roadblock they need to overcome that you guys overcame that. You could tell them about to expect experience and you'll get over it.
Speaker 1:I think you have to be in your organization. You have to recognize you're bringing into someone with pretty much no experience. You have to be willing to invest in that individual. If you do that, you're going to get rewarded. But it's always that fear what if I invest? Or how far should I invest? Will it, is it worth it? I can tell you, on our side we saw the value. But making that step, that trust, is it worth it? I think that's probably the biggest fear that many other organizations have.
Speaker 2:So that's a great one, yeah, no, wow, anything else we didn't cover right, and I want to give you the last word because this is just a fantastic program.
Speaker 1:I think it's. I'd love to get more knowledge. I'd love eventually I'd love to be this nationwide if we can get a nationwide facilities healthcare apprenticeship position all over, so that would be great. I think healthcare needs it in a sense, so I think that would be the opportunity. So if there's individuals out there, you know there's always information we can get to you to help you get started.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, Ryan Coney, thank you for your uh, thank you for your time this morning. I really appreciate it, Appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:How can people find you LinkedIn If, if somebody wants to take you up on that? I don't want to overburden your inbox, but what's the best way? Linkedin, Um, you can always connect with me, but what's the best?
Speaker 1:way to do it. Sure LinkedIn. You can always connect with me. Ryanconey at ahorg. I'm open to talking about this program because there's so much value in it.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, ryan, thank you for your time this morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah thank you.
Speaker 2:Peter Martin, vice President of Business Development for Cref. As always, thanks for tuning in, and this is the kind of info that we need to move this forward. It goes right into our mission to refill the pipeline and this is a grassroots way to do it. So, ryan, thanks for sharing your knowledge. If you want to be a guest on a future episode of the Healthcare Facilities Network, go to healthcarefacilitiesnetworkcom and let us know who you are and what you want to talk about, because together we can solve this critical aging issue.