Healthcare Facilities Network

From the Trades to the Hospital: Inside Hospital Engineering Careers

• Peter

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Healthcare facilities rely on skilled engineers, and some of the best come from the trades. In this episode of Healthcare Facilities Network, we sit down with three engineers who started their careers in landscaping, residential HVAC, remodeling, and hotel maintenance and made the transition into hospital engineering.

They share the learning curves, growth opportunities, and key differences they’ve experienced moving from other trades into healthcare. From adapting hands-on skills to hospital systems to understanding clinical priorities, this is our first episode featuring trades engineers, and it’s packed with insights you won’t hear anywhere else.

Whether you’re a trades professional exploring healthcare or a facilities leader looking to build a stronger team, this conversation highlights how practical experience and trades skills translate into success in hospital engineering.

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Today's Guests:
👥 Connect with Jonathan | https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-enloe-22a648366/
👥 Connect with Michael | https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-kunz-b410131b0/

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SPEAKER_04:

When I was in HVAC, my mind was all comfort. You know, is Peter comfortable in his office? Does he have is he cool enough? Is he warm enough? Or is the air stale? You know, that's that's all I cared about. But now that we are in healthcare, you know, um, we have surgical suites. Is it positive pressure? Is it negative pressure? The humidity isn't just, is it comfortable? It is critical to are is are we damaging the equipment, damaging the tools? It is so much more in-depth, it's so much more involved than one would realize. I think we need to do a better job of explaining what it is we do. People can do this. We there's a lot of eligible people out there that we have to we have to promote and like um give them the confidence that they can do this.

SPEAKER_03:

There's a major crisis facing healthcare facilities management. We have aging employees, aging buildings, and aging infrastructure. We've created the healthcare facilities network, a content network designed specifically to help solve for these three pressing issues in healthcare facilities management. We bring on thought leaders and experts from across healthcare facilities management, all the way from the C-suite to the technician level, because at the end of the day, we're all invested in solving the aging issue. Thanks for tuning in. Look at our videos, you will find that is a theme across our content. This is the Healthcare Facilities Network. I'm your host, Peter Martin. We are here on the Healthcare Facilities Network with an impressive array of guests today, which also is, and it's very fitting, our discussion, the trades and healthcare facilities management. It's also healthcare engineering week. Let me flip it over to my guests to ask them to introduce themselves. Michael, why don't we start with you?

SPEAKER_04:

Um my name is Michael Koontz. I work for P1 Service LLC. Uh, we are all three of us contracted to St. Luke's Hospital of Kansas City. Uh I have been with St. Luke's P1 for eight years in my role as a senior lead engineer for a little over three years. Um, and previously I was in HVAC.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi, I'm Jonathan Enlow. Um, I've been with uh P1 and St. Luke's uh the same amount of time. I've been here a little over six years. Um I actually have worked at three different of the St. Luke's locations. Um and I've been a lead engineer for um about two and a half years. Uh before that, I was just a maintenance engineer.

SPEAKER_05:

Hi, my name is uh Dennis Hole. I've been with P1 slash St. Luke's for six years, um lead engineer for the last two and a half, and just a maintenance tech before that.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you for joining. We talk about all the time, especially here on the healthcare facilities network. We talk about uh the gray tsunami, people retiring, not getting enough people in. But just as just as noteworthy and just as impactful is we're not getting folks into the trades coming up either. And and probably even more so because it's in the trades where the work actually where the work actually happens. So it's interesting, Dennis and Jonathan. I'll start with you two first, only because you transitioned into healthcare. You've been there for six years, you've been at St. Luke's for six years. Coming into healthcare, what was that like for you? Where were you first identified? What were you doing? And how did you get into healthcare? And and what was that transition like?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, so I worked uh remodeling and residential construction for a various amount of years, and um also did some car manufacturing for a time. Um, and then I transitioned into hotel maintenance uh for about a year and a half and kind of got started in the HVAC role, started going to school uh for HVAC and refrigeration. And I worked there for about a year and a half and um it didn't pay very well there, didn't have very much uh upward trajectory there, so I started looking at different options and I found P1 and saw this role. Um I actually originally applied for a role at a different hospital here in the Kansas City area, and then um this position opened up. Uh so I came over here to St. Luke's when they offered me this position and um finished my schooling when I was working as a maintenance engineer here at uh St. Luke's and then just kind of work my way up here uh through the various roles.

SPEAKER_03:

What um so I know you mentioned HVAC and refrigeration. Do you with with St. Luke's now are you in HVAC refrigeration or are you guys more uh generalist in nature or how or how how does that work?

SPEAKER_01:

Overall, at most of the locations we're kind of general maintenance. We kind of we touch a little bit of everything, but here uh at our location specifically, we're bigger than the other campuses, so we specialize a little bit more. Um uh I focus on the mechanics here and our specialist shops, our carpenters, um, and with our mechanics, uh we have the refrigeration shop and we deal with the HVAC. Um but you can talk to Dennis. He works, he's uh works with our power plant mostly. Um, but we uh we all touch the HVAC, we all touch a little bit of everything here.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. Dennis, since Jonathan threw it over, do you jump right in, please?

SPEAKER_05:

So uh previously to working here at P1 uh St. Luke's for the six years I've been here, um I did mostly landscaping work and worked on my cars a lot, did a lot of home maintenance with my father. Um and I used to do uh wedding reception venue work, um, doing security work for them, doing you know little maintenance uh working on the toilets and you know uh cleaning air conditioning coils out uh the on the rooftop and stuff like that. Um I made the transition over because my father was actually a maintenance engineer for oh 30 plus years, I think. Um he was in the same union I'm in now, and he kind of is the one that got me kickstarted over here.

SPEAKER_03:

Was he in uh the uh working in a healthcare capacity, Dennis?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, he he worked at the same location we are at um here on the plaza in Kansas City, Missouri.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, okay. I want to come back to you two to just talk about kind of that transition. Michael, before you give a little bit of of your background, because I know you were elsewhere too before you went into healthcare environment. How big can give us how big is um St. Luke's, how many trades? But can you kind of give us the uh the logistical info just so folks get a sense for how big of an organization you or how big of a building you guys are in?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, so our main campus where we're currently at right now, it's about a million seven square foot, um, over 500 patient beds. Um and when I say our main campus, we the St. Luke's health system is uh broken down into regions. So we're considered the central region. So not only do we have this million seven square foot uh massive building that needs constant attention, um, with parts of it bragging that they're over a hundred years old, mind you. But we've got a child care center, a child spot center, a hospice house, a school for nursing. Um we take a lot care of a lot of property. So uh, and it's all we've got a team of 40 here under the three of us. And uh yeah, so we've got business occupancy, healthcare, ambulatory, all of that.

SPEAKER_03:

So you've got 40 for 1.7 million square feet?

SPEAKER_04:

1.7 at the main campus. I don't know what the square footage is if you combine all of our buildings that we oversee.

SPEAKER_03:

You guys got a lot of responsibility. That's me talking, not you. No, we'd agree. Wow, you're covering a lot of ground. And that's do you guys have uh grounds as well?

SPEAKER_04:

Or is that so we do have grounds. Um, one thing that is potentially unique to some healthcare facilities, um our team is only healthcare facilities um specific. So the maintenance, the preventative maintenance projects, such as that. Uh, we do have a grounds team with St. Luke's, but they are not a part of my specific team. So, yes, we do have a grounds team. Um, and we have a construction team that's not a part of us, but we work hand in hand with them. So we are solely maintenance for uh our department.

SPEAKER_03:

Does maintenance include PM work, work order work? So okay. So it's just not you don't have the PDC part of it, you don't have the building or so, but you got everything okay.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, we do minor PDC, uh small scale. Dennis this morning has actually been working on changing out um some plumbing in a pharmacy room. So uh small scale PDC, but definitely not, you know, giving a whole unit a facelift, building a new building, things of that nature.

SPEAKER_03:

So you guys, Dennis, are you hands-on plumbing as like and and I know Jonathan, you said you guys kind of touch everything, but will you do minor plumbing repairs? Will you guys get out there and and and utilize the tools as well?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, very much so. Um being the lead now um kind of backed off a little bit, but uh we should get out there and touch uh touch the tools and replace stuff and work on PM and air handlers and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03:

So okay. So you got your PM in the air handlers and and okay. And Mark Michael, you got a little bit of an HVAC background too, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Yep. We have a very good team here at St. Luke's and P1. Um, a couple years ago, I was uh going through some tough times because I was the only one in this role. And uh through working with our facility manager, I was able to get these two on. So previous to these two being on, I was more hands-on. Um, I would do more things on the floor. Uh I haven't in the last couple years. Um, but yeah, we all we all chip in. Um, I like to lead via the I would never ask you to do something I wouldn't do. And these guys are great about it. They are constantly helping the team, constantly involved. Um, I try to be, but now I'm kind of learning the other side of the business where it is more hands-off. But uh it it is funny, and I'll be quick. When I came in with my HVAC knowledge, it was residential, um, you know, refrigeration. So I thought I was gonna come in swinging for the fences in healthcare, and we are all chilled water and steam, or at least 95%. So I've got a good foundation, but uh it was it was quite the learning curve still. And healthcare, there's so many regulations and codes, it's it's a lot, it's a beast, but it's good. It it you learn so much doing this.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, you've kind of almost answered my next question, but I want to I throw it out there. So, how does and you guys all kind of came in? You've been in there for a while now, but you kind of came into healthcare um fresh. How does working in a hospital environment, how does working in a healthcare environment change the way you guys view your trade or viewed your trade from pre-healthcare to now being knee deep in it? Anybody want to take that one?

SPEAKER_04:

So I'll jump. Um HVAC and mine's mine's minor. These guys have definitely done more on-the-floor work than me, uh, I can fully admit. But, you know, when I was in HVAC, my mind was all comfort. You know, is Peter comfortable in his office? Does he have, is he cool enough, is he warm enough, or is the air stale? You know, that's that's all I cared about. And and humidity to a degree. But now that we are in healthcare, you know, uh we have surgical suites. Is it positive pressure? Is it negative pressure? The humidity isn't just is it comfortable, it is critical to are is are we damaging the equipment, damaging the tools? It is so much more in-depth, it's so much more involved than one would realize. Um you asked earlier how is making the transition from non-healthcare to healthcare, uh it's easy and difficult. You know, there's a lot of foundational work. Um, 90% of your day, I would consider not healthcare, if you will, but that 10% you gotta be on your game and you have to know the healthcare, and you have to you have to know the critical areas that uh you're touching and how many lives can be affected by how you react and what you do. So um it's it's a lot, but if you have a good team such as us, um you know, we make it we make it manageable.

SPEAKER_03:

So if 90% of your day is not healthcare, is that's is that spent like team management meetings with what's that 90%?

SPEAKER_04:

No, when I say not healthcare, I mean like you can hang a picture anywhere. I can plunge a toilet any environment. But when I say healthcare, I mean um like if there's a patient that is in a negative pressure room, an isolation room, that's when you have to put on the healthcare hat and think of specific codes. Gotcha. Yeah, so we're still in the hospital doing stuff. I just specific to where we're at.

SPEAKER_03:

That's a good description. Jonathan, I noticed you're shaking your head. Did you want to jump in there?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh yeah, one of the things that I was thinking about, um, we do have the like across our shops, the different work that we do. Like Dennis was uh we were talking about the plumbing work that he was doing. Um, being in a pharmacy room, you know, we can't just go in there and get above the ceiling and start replacing the pipes. We have to do um different risk assessments. We have infection control that we have to consider um before the construction projects, they do the pre-construction meetings and um also depending on what's going on, we have the uh intermittent life safety measures, ILSMs that we have to consider. If there's a exit egress that's blocked or um a system, a critical system that's being taken offline. Um you have to think about that. Um you know, we can't just say, okay, well, we need to keep the dust down and clean up the area. We have to set up the negative pressure machines, have sticky mats to control the dust and the infection issues that way. Um, and then also, you know, things you don't think about if you're drilling or if you're making noise, you have noise and vibration issues for surrounding areas and um just uh a lot of extra things to consider before you just start a project. You have to make sure all your bases are covered before you can, even if it's just a little thing, you know, it could be just uh hanging a picture or doing a small uh wall repair.

SPEAKER_03:

So, Jonathan, how is that uh transition for you? Like how long again, because everything you just described, you know, it's funny. I was at a uh conference um last week or two weeks ago, been doing a lot of traveling, and and you know, you just mentioned ILSMs and the speaker was talking about how they'll go out there and still a lot of people don't uh who have been in, they don't always do, they don't always do an ILSM for and and they don't do that, those pre the the stuff you were just talking about before you the ICRAs. And and they were like, I expect better, and it just doesn't always happen. And and how long did it take you to kind of shift that mindset into the healthcare environment? As Michael was saying, these healthcare-specific regs that impact the work you do. What was that transition like for you?

SPEAKER_01:

So I had some pretty good lead engineers uh across my time. Mike was my lead engineer for quite a while. Um, and I got some very good training at all the locations that I worked with and and the other maintenance engineers that I worked with side by side. Um, we do a pretty good job of uh helping each other out. There's always something to learn. Even you know, as long as we've been here, there's always more that we have to learn. Um, but with the training that I had and the structure, it was, I think with our um with our group here, it was pretty easy for me. Um you always have to consider, I like I talked about being in the hotel, you have to consider um uh customers and you know, trying to keep things clean, but we just take it a few steps farther here because we have to be um extra careful that you don't want to get people hurt, get people sick, you have to make sure that people can get out safely in an emergency. Um, but I had some pretty good training and a lot of good help along the way. So it was fairly easy for me.

SPEAKER_03:

How has the trades world, I guess, changed over the years? What what types of transitions have you guys seen in that regard?

SPEAKER_05:

It's been a little bit different because there's not a lot of you know new generationals coming to the trades. So um it is kind of hard to find, you know, people to come in and do this type of work, unfortunately. Uh I just it's I don't know, it's really difficult.

SPEAKER_03:

That's well said. I mean, that's it, that's a big change, right? Uh and that's probably uh a negative change. Jonathan or Michael, anything to kind of add to that? I I assume you're seeing the same things that Dennis is seeing. You're both you're all in the same hospital. Anything to add relative to the change you've seen?

SPEAKER_01:

I think one thing that I noticed uh being in school, because I was working here and going to school at the same time, and I tried to talk to guys about coming to work here because we always have openings, we're always looking for qualified individuals. And a lot of people I think were hesitant, either because they didn't understand the type of work that we did or maybe a little nervous about working in a hospital. You know, Mike always brings up that point when we do interviews when we're hiring, you know, in the process of hiring people. Um but I think uh one thing, yeah, people don't really, I don't think they fully understand what we do here. They understand specific trades like electricians and plumbers and HVAC, but when you think about hospital maintenance, you probably don't uh understand fully what happens.

SPEAKER_04:

I know this is about facilities and facilities week, but I I fully agree with Jonathan. Um a gripe, I don't know, gripe, a gripe I have, and I I believe I mentioned to you when we first met at the the national conference this year, is I don't think some of our people do a great job of explaining what it is what we do. I'm not saying I am got the perfect explanation, but I think we could get a lot more people in the door if we made it sound less intimidating, right? So it's a cr it's a critical job. It is. I I'm not gonna lie to you for a moment, but um there is quite a bit of work that isn't patient safety critical, if you will, and can be just normal trades work. You know, we could take a um non-healthcare electrician and tr uh transfer their skill set just fine. Now, during the time until a critical failure or critical issue happens, we have the time to train you and get you ready with the healthcare mindset. But I think one thing we really need to do and start stressing is that people can do this. You know, there are a lot of capable people. Um, like I said, I came in thinking I was gonna be awesome with my HVAC knowledge, and it hardly transferred other than a foundation. And here I am now, a senior lead engineer for one of the biggest hospitals in Kansas, or I guess Missouri. But uh but yeah, I mean I think we need to do a better job of uh explaining what it is we do and giving potential day by day, and um people can do this. We there there's a lot of eligible people out there that we have to we have to promote and like uh give them the confidence that they can do this.

SPEAKER_03:

What do you think, Michael? The um and I I agree with you. What do you think foundationally? So if somebody doesn't have the healthcare experience, what would you look for them to have to be able to translate in and potentially become a good, you know, good tradesperson for you and ultimately continue on if they want?

SPEAKER_04:

So some people may not agree with me. I'm hoping these guys do, and they may not, so please disagree. Um I honestly will hire for attitude every single day of the week. I will hire for a good attitude, someone wanting to work, someone wanting to learn. Um, now, if in the interview you don't know what a screwdriver is, then you know there there are limits to how little someone can know. But, you know, I can or we can work with anyone. We have we are fortunate enough to have the size of the team that we have, so we have the ability to um train guys up, but I want people that want to be here, want to work. Um that's that's kind of what I'm after. Um, anything after that is a bonus. You know, we we have actually had guys that would be wonderful fits mechanically, pure mechanically, but I will put my foot down if I think they'll cause an issue with the team or be uh be a problem and give us headaches down the road. I I don't want to risk the team's cohesiveness. Uh I don't want to risk what we've built. So I I'm way more about what you're gonna bring outside of your mechanics than your mechanics themselves.

SPEAKER_03:

Jonathan and Dennis, agree or disagree, not to put you on the spot.

SPEAKER_05:

I agree. Um one of the things we tell tell them when we're in the interview process of trying to get new guys in here is you get you get what you put into it. So if you're if you're willing to do the work and you know do the legwork to learn everything and learn the trades, then you'll you'll be just fine.

SPEAKER_03:

If you like this video, please like and subscribe to the network. And more importantly, share it with your colleagues in the healthcare industry. Together, we can solve the aging crisis that's impacting all of us. All right, if people aren't coming in, then you don't have your pick of the letter. So as you said there, Michael, you take somebody who's got the want-to and you create them.

SPEAKER_04:

The other part of that is that healthcare engineering, it's not a it's not a uh a normal trade or uh, I don't know if this is the right term, but a cool trade. You're not gonna go to the movie theater and the blue-collar guy is a healthcare engineer, you know, he's a plumber, he's an electrician, he's a carpenter. So I I think the other thing is is we need to do a better job of promoting our style of work um outside of tradespeople who may accidentally stumble upon what we do. But yeah, the the limited people coming into the trades is even more limited because they don't know that we are a trade. We're not just the maintenance man, we've got a a critical job.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. That was one of the things, you know, when I was just doing the recruiting uh with Goslin Martin, you would see um like organizations, hospitals would use the term uh maintenance. And there's nothing wrong with maintenance, right? But it it it kind of reflects uh it's a limiter on what you do every. I mean, like maintenance gives a very specific visual. Uh and it's much more than just maintenance, it's connected to the patient, it's connected to the family, it's connected, it's and we would always say to hospitals, we would try to get them just to change that word, right? To to reflect the higher level of what you actually do. And and you're right, last thing, I'll shut up, Jonathan. You're shaking your head. I don't know if you want to go next, but you know, when you were saying that, I was talking to, I had Lamar Davis on one of my very early podcasts. Uh, and he was he was saying, you know, nobody grows up. Like you don't see kids grow up, you might play cowboys and Indians, you might want to be an athlete, you might want to do all this. He's like, nobody grows up wanting to be a healthcare engineer. He's like, nobody even knows it exists. So we have to promote it better that the opportunity exists. And I don't know, you know, you guys you're in the trades, but you, you know, you got a roof over your head, you got temperature and humidity, you're not out in the, you know, you're not out in the elements, it snows where you guys are, there's ice storms where you guys are. So there's a lot of benefits to it. Jonathan, I'm gonna go back to you because you mentioned it. When you tried to promote, like when you were in school and you tried to tell other people about it, were you successful in that? Or what what was your success rate?

SPEAKER_01:

I wasn't able to get any of the guys that I was in school with to be interested in the job. I tried to explain it to them. And yeah, because um one thing I think if you go work at an HVAC company, you can see a little bit higher, probably dollar per hour rate than what you do here. But we have a lot of we have other benefits um being in the union. Um, but I think um people were, you know, were probably a little bit intimidated also thinking about going and working at a hospital. Um one of the things that I like to tell people when I'm training them here is we we have a we have a large campus, we have a lot of various types of equipment that we work on here, but your basics are all the same. And I think people, I think plenty of people have at least the basic knowledge enough to come work here. They just don't maybe worried that they don't know how to apply it well enough. Um, but if you know, if they know their basics and apply them, we we are able to teach all the specifics of the different type of equipment that we have here. Um, and even to the point of going to you know different campuses, different hospitals, and then even those basics that you learn on the job as a maintenance engineer, it still applies, you know, as a lead engineer, as a facility manager as you move up, you still use those all those same things that you learned along the way.

SPEAKER_03:

The intimidation factor is interesting. I I don't know that I've ever heard that one before, and I'm I'm I'm glad you brought that up. I I had never considered it. So the the the working in the hospital, Michael and and Dennis, do you guys see the same? Have you seen the same? That the kind of a little bit of a barrier there.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I kind of see. I see that, and you know, maybe maybe it's the being around all of the illnesses that you know could possibly be going on. You know, somebody could there could be a room that has TV, you know, there could be C diff in one room, you never know. So you always have I think that may play a factor in it, always be in the back of their mind.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, and I guess Dennis and Jonathan, you probably in it for about a year before COVID hit, right? If you've you've been in six years with 2019, right around that time frame. Yep. Uh baptism.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, started right right when it's right when COVID hit, and right when we started masking up. Uh that's when we last started. So good timing, Dennis.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. But you stuck around. Why? You know, how have um can we talk about technology for a a second? How have you seen technology impact your work? And and is technology is it helpful? Is it a hindrance? Is it a limiter? Can you talk a little bit about technology and its impact on your daily work?

SPEAKER_04:

I will I'll do the brief one, but these guys, especially Dennis, probably more affected by technology with all the systems that he's over. But uh, I think it's funny. I'm not judging, but you go to these conferences and AI is brought up so often, right? You know, the the future is AI, be it um robots delivering this or helping you with emails or what have you. Um our facility, our health system, and I don't have the background I I can't speak to it on a professional level, but all AI sites are blocked on our computers. Um so like now that's websites. That's not necessarily the the extent of what AI is, but right, but like a chat GPT is blocked on your computer. Yeah, so uh you hear about all these innovations and that and how it's coming or it's here, and we don't have the access yet. But uh technology, it is drastically quickly changing the landscape of not just us, but what everyone's doing.

SPEAKER_05:

So the technology side of mine, we got a lot of computer-based systems that we uh keep track of here in the energy center for the plaza location. Um we monitor the fire system, we monitor the tube system, we monitor um IT equipment. Um there's a lot we do with technology. Um, luckily, our company gives us these fabulous iPads to carry around uh to be able to access most of that information. Um, we also have you know BMS systems that we wash to control all the HVAC stuff, uh chill water systems, steam systems, hot water systems, you know, everything from mid DHC side to domestic cold water, you know, so people for their showers for washing their hands. Um it's we have a lot of we have a lot of technology that we deal with here on a day-to-day basis. Helpful? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

For the most part. There's some things that are tried out that uh don't necessarily work out. Uh we did have a user robot here to try for delivery here at the hospital that didn't end up staying. Um we've also tried different systems here to um kind of like our BMS system, but it shows out the layout of the hospital and things that you know you can track equipment and locations that way. Um so we've tried different things out. Um we also have tools that we try to, you know, if we find a good tool that uh works well, like within our refrigeration shop, we started using the smart probes instead of just the analog gauges for the refrigerate, you know, the refrigerant. Um so there's a lot of things that we try out, and if they work, we keep them. Sometimes they don't necessarily work out the way we hoped, but it all goes.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, right. So do you where does your um CMMS system live?

SPEAKER_04:

Uh in Citrix, or it is Citrix and TMS. Um, it's the accruant system, they do a great job for us. Um, we're actually getting upgraded right now. So if in a month from now um you see comments on your channel uh disregard, but uh team minutes are generally pretty good.

SPEAKER_03:

So if we were the maybe we need to come back on November 15th and do like a five-minute opening into it.

SPEAKER_00:

There you go.

SPEAKER_03:

And are do you guys have um oversight? Not oversight, but are you're running the work order system within your within your maintenance department?

SPEAKER_04:

Um yes and no. So when I say P1 is contracted, I mean we are, but like our facility manager who is a St. Luke's employee, he came from P1. You know, the natural progression for our healthcare system, um, and I don't think it's purposeful, but is to go from P1 to St. Luke's. Um, you know, so we have a very, very good hand-in-hand relationship with St. Luke's. So I would technically say that St. Luke's manages it, our facilities service center call team. Um, they manage it, but you know, me, John, Dennis, as well as the lead engineers at the other campuses, we'll make suggestions, we'll review it, we'll give the go-ahead. So it's not our baby, but we are heavily invested, heavily involved.

SPEAKER_03:

Has technology um have the technologies you you've used, does it make job easier? Does it make it more difficult? Is it because I think you know you alluded to it, Michael. We're still in healthcare, excuse me, you know, 15 to 20 years behind. I mean, we're not on the cutting edge of any of the technologies. There's usually a lag, but uh on the whole, technology, a plus, a minus, or a you know, even.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it could break either way, depending on what the system is that we're trying out. Yeah. Um we do have multiple um programs that we use for different, you know, different things. Our we have our i ILSMs are on one, we have um, you know, our CMMS system, we have different things that we use. Um, we have our our kind of set in stone things that we use, but we also try new things. So it just kind of depends on the system, how well it works, and how well it works with our system, also.

SPEAKER_04:

Speaking of the graying out, um, we got a lot of people that maybe don't love technology. So even the good systems.

SPEAKER_03:

Michael, thank you. Yeah, that's what I was gonna ask. Go right ahead then.

SPEAKER_04:

Uh even the good systems, um, it can be a struggle, and it's no judge, you know, we all have different skill sets, but uh this this TMS thing, um, our CMMS uh program, just trying to log in for like the last week has been uh has been a nightmare. And you would think it's simple, and to some it is, to some it's not, and we've probably spent too much time having to help some of our staff, you know, log in. So um there's a there's a lot of good um that comes of technology, but there is a lot of trial and error, and there is a lot of unknown um for what the technology is, and there's a lot of hesitation even for the good stuff. You know, paper always works, we can put it in a notebook, and there's there's just so many facets you have to consider.

SPEAKER_03:

Don't make fun of the notebook. Hey, I'm I'm a big notebook guy. Well, you you know what's funny is like we it's so at Craft, we've been doing a good deal of work, like we're CMMS agnostic. We're we don't have you know, but what we do is data collection, um, you know, going out to the field because you can create the CMMS, but if you if you don't know, if you if you haven't tagged everything, if you haven't done your asset data collection, it's garbage. But one of the things, and it goes to your point there, Michael, about training people to log, it's just this massive change management exercise, right? Where you can't take anything for granted right down to the fact of even just logging in, because if you can't log in, you're like, I'm not even you just from the very beginning, you're just you're outside looking in.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, Dennis, I feel bad for him at times. Um, we've got a leadership group that's very forward-thinking. We're fortunate with that, but um, he'll have two to three programs that do the literal same thing. I'm and I mean literal. One's a paper version, one's a digital version, and then one's the version that we kind of made in Excel during the interim period. So not only is there a lot of technology, but there's a lot of redundancy because we don't know if if that program is going to last the life of what we need it to, or it it's a lot.

SPEAKER_03:

What do people outside of the trades what don't they realize about your job and kind of further about your job and the impact that you have that your role has on patient care?

SPEAKER_01:

I think uh a lot of what we do isn't just fixing things. Yes, that's our primary focus of our job is to fix the equipment and the issues that are around it, but we also we're here to help take care of the patients. Obviously, we don't work on the patients, but you know, we go in the rooms with the patients, uh, fix the things for them. Even uh some things like you know uh TVs or uh things like that that aren't critical to their care. You know, we have the physical environment that the patients walk through, the things that they see. Um the visitors are here, we're here to you know make the situation the best that we can for them. We can't help heal them, but we can help take care of the things that take care of them, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and I I think that's part of helping to heal them, right? Because that environment that you create is is is is a positive one. Did you know, and maybe for all three of you, before you started, did you know that your role would have that impact on patients, or did you did you kind of go in thinking there's a wall between what you do and the patient experience?

SPEAKER_05:

For me personally, I would say that there was kind of a wall as what I thought when I came in. I didn't think I was gonna be um you know working so close to the patients. Um but like a good John hit it right on the nose with what he said about everything um being doing the critical stuff like that.

SPEAKER_03:

How do you see kind of the trades evolving to meet the demands of you know hospitals and systems in the coming years?

SPEAKER_04:

That is a concern of mine. Um, I'm not sure. Uh I know you're not asking for the end-all-be-all answer, but I I don't know. I I think I think there needs to be a focus, especially with technology at our fingertips, of doing a better job advertising for ourselves and promoting ourselves and what we do and trying to get people into our line of work. Um but with the with the decline of available employees, the the pool of employees, it's it is concerning. And uh maybe it's just from where I'm sitting, it maybe it's a personal thing, but I don't see a big shift on how we're going to overcome that. Um that's my personal opinion. It it's it's a worry.

SPEAKER_03:

The younger folks coming into the trades, is there a different, and maybe you can't answer it, but is there a difference in their expectations for the role? Uh you know, and has that evolved over and the reason I guess just a little bit of background that I hear, at least kind of like on the leadership level, and I'm sure it's the same on the trades level, is that people don't want to get into the leadership because like I don't want that, right? It's too much. I I I love what I do, I I love working in healthcare, I love making a difference, but I don't need that headache. So that's kind of a change that's occurred. Have you seen a like a similar or or or a change in the way folks coming into the trades look at it now, as opposed to say, because um listen, you can take COVID. COVID changed everything. And I look at that five years ago, that's when things flipped. So have people coming into the trades, their mindset is it changed post-COVID, or do you guys not have an opinion or insight because you've been at the hospital now for a while?

SPEAKER_01:

I think mindset does change just uh, you know, just in general over the years, um, going from strictly just the trades type work to uh more of a you do more than just one type of thing. Um, but also I think it changes a little bit. Yeah, when uh COVID started, I I remember thinking that I wasn't going to keep working here if you know COVID was gonna happen like that, and then here I am. Um I think part of it is just um being able to see how things, the outcome of how things can go. Um, I know it was rough for a lot of people, but we had a good team here. Um I think uh the young guys coming in, part of it's just being uh open, um, honest about what's going on, how things can go here. Um I think some of part of it also is uh the visibility of the maybe the roles that are posted or even just what we're doing. A lot of people just don't know what we're doing. Um and I think uh one thing that can help is just trying to um like with our job postings, our job postings don't say hospital maintenance, they say uh FMO at uh SLH. Um so maybe people don't know what uh facilities maintenance operation is, and um I think people still kind of focus on just going into the single trade type work, getting into a specific union. Um, but I think coming in here, we still work in a union, but what we can do is so much more than just one specific type of thing. I think that's something that kind of helps a little bit also.

SPEAKER_03:

I I probably am a little late in asking that question. So that you guys have alluded a couple of times to being in the union, but within the union, you're able to go into the you know, you're able to do a little bit of plumbing, you're able to do HVAC. Like is your you you're set up that you can cover a number of different areas and you're it's not just the text HVAC text the HVAC work, your plumbers do the plumbing work, you guys can cross cross-functional. Yeah, that must help. Um with especially with that amount of of square footage. What is um, and so we're kind of coming close to the end, but uh I wanted to ask this yes or no? Are you guys happy? Uh or are you pleased with your career path that you got into healthcare? And do you see you if all things are equal, we can't tell the future. Heck, I might be gone Friday, whoever knows, right? But if all things are equal, do you do you want to kind of stay on the career path that you you've you're on now? Or um is has healthcare been a nice change for you?

SPEAKER_05:

Uh I would say yeah. Um, I'm I like my career path as has been headed, um, or where it's headed, um, kind of started from the bottom here. Um came into a role as a what P1 calls an entry level, which the expectations is you know, you just come in and learn, and that's it. You're just there to learn and pick up things. And like I said earlier, you get what you put out of, you know, you you get what you put into it. Um, so I put quite a lot into um where I'm at now, um, coming from the you know, the lowest guy here to not know anything six years ago to being a lead engineer here two and a half years ago. So um I'm I like where I'm headed and stable for my family. You know, I got five kids I'm taking care of.

SPEAKER_03:

So um Jonathan, you talk about trying to convince people. I mean, there is like you're a hard worker, you work hard, you can make your path because there's opportunity if you want it.

SPEAKER_01:

One thing that I didn't realize getting into this trade is how many different opportunities it can open up. Um I mean, obviously we have the the trade work that you can do, and you can stay in that and get all the kinds of training in that type of trade that you want. Um, but there's also the business side of it, the regulatory side of it, the consulting side of it. Um, there's so many different options that it opens up for you that you can different paths that you can pursue. Um and also just I know here we got a great team, a great leadership team. We have good guys, uh good technicians at work here. Um so overall, yeah, it's been good. It's been a good uh journey, and uh really enjoy the people that I work with here.

SPEAKER_04:

I very much enjoy what I do. I I love working with these two. I love working with the team that we have. Our St. Luke's manager is a phenomenal manager. Our P1 team supports us. Um, and then just St. Luke's. While we're not St. Luke's, um they don't sign our paychecks, they treat us like we're you know one of the team. Um so I'm not sure if it's healthcare or if we've just lucked out into an amazing group of individuals um around us that are we support and that support us. But uh yeah, there's there's endless opportunities once you're in healthcare if if if you have enough drive. It's it's great.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. So last question, and I appreciate your time, Dennis Halp, Michael Kunz, Jonathan Enlo, St. Luke's, out in uh Kansas City, Missouri, right? Not Kansas City, Kansas. Um uh if you were to talk and we'll consider this the um we'll consider this the advertisement for this one, but if you were talking to that tradesperson, whether they're young, mid-career, wherever they are, but they don't know healthcare, they have no idea about what would you tell them to at least try to get them consider to consider the opportunity? What would you tell that tradesperson?

SPEAKER_01:

I would say it's a good, it's a good, uh definitely professional place to work, you're not just uh out digging trenches, building walls. Um there's a lot of opportunity for growth, a lot of opportunity for education, learning. Um, like I said, opens up a lot of different uh possibilities for career paths. Um you can stay as a technician if you want. You can move on higher up and get into different options that you didn't even know were out there. But yeah, it's definitely great, definitely a great career path.

SPEAKER_03:

You have an opportunity as a career uh recruiter there, Jonathan, in the way you explain these things. Exactly. See the doors that are opening.

SPEAKER_04:

So to piggy off of Jonathan, you know, when I was still in HVAC and wanting wanted guys to join my HVAC team, I would tell them, um, in HVAC, you kind of touch everything. You may not be a master of it all, but you know, with condensate pumps, you are now doing plumbing. With um the copper, you're doing brazing, welding. Um, with sheet metal, you're obviously doing 10. You know, you touch everything. And I thought I was so blessed, or was that I learned a foundation of so much, but here at the hospital, it's been exponential. I have done anything maintenance or near maintenance that you can think of. I guarantee you I have done it. It I am constantly learning. And if you are just aiming for a foundation, this is a great place to get a foundation on anything and everything you could imagine. And if it doesn't work out, or if you find out, hey, I really like electricity or doing electricians' work, then you can go from here into that next role. But we're a good foundation, and uh at least at our location, we've had a lot of 20, 30, 40-year guys. I what we do is impactful, what we do is good, and I think we could convince quite a few uh people to stay once we got them in the door.

SPEAKER_05:

Like they said, the lot of room for growth, man. Yeah anything can anything is possible when you step into this field. Um the opp the sky's the limit.

SPEAKER_03:

So perfect. Well, gentlemen, thank you for your time. Don't eat too much this week.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I was actually getting uh phone text about getting lunch delivered during this thing, so I tried I had to like coordinate that real quick.

SPEAKER_03:

Hey, don't don't let me hold that up, Dennis. I don't want to get in front of people on that. So, Dennis, Michael, Jonathan, thank you for your time. I really appreciate it. The hour flew by, but the coming out of it, you know, it's it's engineering week, and without you guys, those doctors and nurses, they're not doing their job. So with that, Peter Martin for the Healthcare Facilities Network. As always, thank you for tuning in, and we will be back with another episode soon. Take care. If you want to be a guest on a future episode of the Healthcare Facilities Network, go to healthcarefacilitiesnetwork.com and let us know who you are and what you want to talk about. Because together, we can solve this critical aging issue.