Healthcare Facilities Network
The Healthcare Facilities Network podcast highlights the essential role of facilities
management in delivering high-quality patient care. Hosted by Peter Martin, this show brings you expert insights on the issues, trends, and solutions shaping the future of healthcare spaces. Learn from industry leaders and discover ways to drive positive change in your facility.
Healthcare Facilities Network
Healthcare Facilities in 2025: Workforce, Supply Chain, and What Comes Next
As 2025 comes to a close, healthcare facilities leaders are reflecting on a year shaped by workforce pressure, operational challenges, and meaningful progress. In this year-end conversation, the Healthcare Facilities Network brings together facilities and HR leaders from across the country to examine what the past year revealed — and what it demands moving forward.
This episode explores the workforce realities that surprised leaders, why supply chain challenges continue to impact day-to-day operations, and the lessons facilities teams are carrying into the future. The conversation also looks ahead to 2026, including how leaders are thinking about AI, intentional onboarding, and preparing teams for what’s next in healthcare facilities management.
Guests include:
Facilities and HR leaders from UF Health, AdventHealth, Aramark Healthcare, CommonSpirit Health, and Saratoga Hospital.
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Today's Guests:
👥 Connect with Christine | https://www.linkedin.com/in/pirricm/
👥 Connect with Geoff | https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoff-schuller-ml-chfm-chc-5b69601b/
👥 Connect with Chris | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-e-885b9424/
👥 Connect with John | https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-crouch-31aa83a/
👥 Connect with Bobby | https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobby-baird-fashe-chfm-2ab07814/
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The aging workforce is in our lane, uh, at least in common spirit, it's our number one issue that we're having to deal with. And the workforce isn't getting larger, it's getting smaller. And that's the way it's going to be for the foreseeable next 10 to 15 years. And so, as we deal with that, how do we continue to retain our employees? How do we hire the ones that some don't have the skill sets, some don't have the cultural fit? And so, how do we find those individuals that will that will align with what we're doing? And and really it is about finding somebody that has that calling to go into healthcare because you know we're hiring from away from industries that don't have that healthcare initiative or understanding.
SPEAKER_02:There's a major crisis facing healthcare facilities management. We have aging employees, aging buildings, and aging infrastructure. We've created the healthcare facilities network, a content network designed specifically to help solve for these three pressing issues in healthcare facilities management. We bring on thought leaders and experts from across healthcare facilities management, all the way from the C-suite to the technician level. Because at the end of the day, we're all invested in solving the aging issue. Thanks for tuning in. Look at our videos. You will find that is a theme across our content. This is the Healthcare Facilities Network. I'm your host, Peter Martin. This is the last episode of 2025. So those of you who have watched for this year, thank you so much. I appreciate it. So last of 2025, what I've asked our distinguished group of uh of guests is to look a little bit back at 2025, look ahead at 2026. I know each of these people, we've worked together before. It's a great group. They are very boisterous, they have opinions and they're not afraid to talk. And that is why they've been selected for the last show at 2025. Before we get into it, I would like each of them to please introduce themselves. And Chris, why don't we start with you, please?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. My name is Chris Ensman, and I am regional director for plant operations and maintenance for Airmark Healthcare, primarily in the Northeast region for Airmark. I have been in healthcare administration for, I can't believe it, it's going on 33 years now, uh, but only in plant operations and support services for the past 10. I actually started off in a clinical role and uh made it all the way up to chief executive of some LTAX and rehab hospitals, but uh found I like support services best when I needed to make a career change and uh have been doing the support services and actually found uh not only am I having more fun, but having a bigger impact on the quality of care of our patients and our staff.
SPEAKER_02:Chris, you are the um you are the rookie amongst this group. All of our other guests have been on before, so welcome and thank you for appearing.
SPEAKER_03:Christine Christie.
SPEAKER_01:Sure, excellent. Thanks, Peter. Uh Christine Peary, Chief Human Resources Officer of Saratoga Hospital. Saratoga Hospital is part of the Albany Med Health System. I've been in, let's see, I've been in human resources for over 20 years and specific to healthcare for more than 15. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Christine. John, John Crouch. I am the administrative director of engineering at Evan Health Campa Campus. Approximately 1.2 million square feet. 70% of it is decades old and uh has not been cared for the way it is being cared for now, uh, which requires a lot of money. But I've been in healthcare 21 years.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, John. I I like the way you threw in it, it requires a lot of money. Very true. Jeff.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, my name is Jeff Schuler. I'm the regional director for uh facility management operations with Common Spirit Health. I've been doing this type of work for a little over three and a half decades, and uh primarily in construction and operations and maintenance. And I've been in healthcare a little over 15 years. And uh, you know, like John's talking about, it takes a lot of money and we have a lot of aged work uh working spaces uh in our facilities, and so that kind of seems to be the big challenge a lot of us are feeling this this uh time around, and certainly into 26.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Jeff. And last but not least, sir, the old guy, Bobby Baird.
SPEAKER_04:So almost 32 years doing this. UF Health, uh, Gainesville, Florida, East Coast of Florida, Central Florida. So I'm the facility's leader, uh, manage about 11 million square feet, and uh have learned a lot about our industry every single year and every single day. So it's not a day that goes by that I don't learn something new. So uh something today I expect to learn at least four or five new things from these great people that I'm looking at.
SPEAKER_02:What I like about your introductions, and it's been really uh, you know, it's part of the reason we started the healthcare facilities network, is you know, what was mentioned was aging buildings, aging infrastructure. And there was no, you know, we didn't we didn't talk about this beforehand. Aging buildings, aging infrastructure, and obviously aging employees. And those are three uh of the huge issues that we talk a lot about on this network. It's one of the reasons we started the network, is just to publicize the opportunity. Uh Chris, if we had time, uh you know, I know what your background is. It would be fantastic to talk about that because you talk about the different ways people come into the field, uh John and Jeff both out of the military. But where I want to start first uh is with the people issue. And Christine, from the HR perspective, because that's what you deal, you deal in the currency of people. Uh do you think are we getting any closer? As we close out 2025, are we getting any closer to solving the people problem? And I know you can speak to a wide perspective across the you know, all of the hospital or all of healthcare, but if we for this one in the FM world, where do we stand at the end of 2025?
SPEAKER_01:So I think the people, the people challenge will continue to be a people challenge. Um, I don't know that we've solved the challenge in the space, let alone other spaces. I think the people challenge will continue to plague. Um it's finding the right people for the right role at the right time. Um it's going to require making sure that you have good leaders to know how to partner and attract from different different schools, different pipelines. Um you know, making those connections in in the uh in the community in which your hospital exists. I know that's been really important to us. Um we're lucky right now we don't have any vacancies. I'm going to knock on wood because that is like almost unheard of in in in almost any space. We have found success in a very strong director of this function who really partners with his team to make sure that his team his his uh his team makes they're part of the interview process. So they're bringing people on, not that just maybe have the skills or don't have the skills, and we need to teach them the skills, but who are invested in the people we're bringing on to make sure that the right fit. And I think that that sometimes often overlooked, whether it be for facilities or any position, right? Everyone's so quick to hire, but are you hiring the right person for the right culture who's going to stick around?
SPEAKER_02:Jeff, are you look like you're chopping at the bit? I'm not sure if you want to you want to respond.
SPEAKER_06:No, I was just, you know, as as I was listening to Christine talk, it was just so many things were resonating with me, and I'm sure with everybody else, that it's it's entirely that, right? The aging workforce is in our lane, uh at least in common spirit, it's our number one issue that we're having to deal with. And the workforce isn't getting larger, it's getting smaller. And that's the way it's going to be for the foreseeable next 10 to 15 years. And so, as we deal with that, how do we continue to retain our employees? How do we hire the ones that some don't have the skill sets, some don't have the cultural fit? And so, how do we find those individuals that will that will align with what we're doing? And and really it is about finding somebody that has that calling to go into healthcare because you know we're hiring from away from industries that don't have that healthcare initiative or understanding. And it's the same pool of individuals. You can do HVAC in different industries, it's still HVAC, but when you do it in healthcare, the ramifications are a little bit different. And that understanding truly is about what we're looking for in the individuals that we hire. And to your point, Christine, treating that culture within the department, almost a subculture of the greater company is key. It's everything. And so I think that was the reason I was kind of smiling and nodding my head, because boy, everything she was talking about is exactly what I'm experiencing. And I'm sure it's similar but different for everybody else on the call.
SPEAKER_00:I had just taken over this hospital February 10th from a previous campus location, and I knew this campus was woefully understaffed. So I took the 2010 Ashy benchmarking report for staffing of uh EVS and for um facilities engineering. I no longer have EVS responsibilities, but I've actually shared it with them and my approach. We had for 1.2 million square feet a staffing to include up to the uh my my level, 32 people. That's woefully inadequate. When I compared it to the staffing benchmark report, we were supposed to be at 41 people, uh, everyone from the administrative director all the way down. And I created my own spreadsheet to reflect the information from that benchmarking report, and then I uh had two sit downs with my COO and CEO, I'm sorry, CFO, to show them where we're really hurting. There's only 25 people on my first day on the job. We had seven vacancies, and I got that boosted and quickly I got those filled, and then I got an additional uh seven positions added. Then I got an additional four positions added in August, and then I got a promise for four in January and four in July next year. And so that reflects that I had a uh 29% increase this year. Um, then I had the four additional laborers that are not even FTEs, they're an outsourced agency, staffing agency. Simply, their only job is to clean and wash every mechanical room space, electric room, Tom closet from ceiling to floor, and the equipment, and then paint the walls white and paint the floors gray with uh a high visibility yellow around all the housekeeping pads that the equipment sets on. And I had no problem getting that from my CFO and CEO CEO because they would love to have an old facility that looks new. Why should it only be a new facility that looks new? There's no reason an old facility, decades old, my oldest building 1967. We've got now areas that look like they were just built last year. And uh it's taken quite a while. I mean, I've got 83 mechanical room spaces on the first floor, which includes data and uh electrical. But just making that investment, the staff feels better about what they see. If I ever thought I was gonna get it accomplished by using in-house staff, it wasn't gonna happen with all the work orders we have. So focusing on day laborers for about a year uh is how long I think it's gonna take me to get through this campus. Uh, then I can stop using the day laborers uh from a staffing agency. And uh so for me, uh what 2025 looked like um good, bad, or and different about the dynamics, is I don't have enough staff to do stuff that should have been done over the years. I needed to increase my staffing to get this campus looking the way it should. And I was adamant during my hiring process that don't tire me to get you through a survey. Hire me because you're willing to invest in the staff to increase it where it needs to be, and you're willing to spend the money on repairs and maintenance.
SPEAKER_02:How did you get the money to hire the people? But it sounds like you at the during the interview process made that clear that that was an expectation if you're taking the role.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So there's a couple different things going on here. All of them had a certain amount of influence. The the wild card that was the unknown was the COO, who we have a phenomenal relationship now, but we really didn't know each other uh other than a couple meet meetings and conversations we had had in the preceding years, being in a sister campus. But the CFO, he was my boss at my previous campus for four and a half years. He's been here five years. So he knew what he was getting if I came here. The CEO just had me for five years at my previous campus, and he wanted me here. Because I told the COO, you're the hiring manager, not Eric. He may be your boss and may have a confidence in what I can do, but you're the you're the one that has to have that trust and confidence in me, but I can't be successful without your support, you and the CFO support. And without that, uh you need to find somebody else to get you through surveys because my job is not to get you through a survey, is to take this campus and take that 70% and turn it around so that it's um as nice as our brand new building that's five years old.
SPEAKER_04:Bobby, you're down there in Florida, similar? Um, not exactly. Thanks, Peter. Uh most of us are getting FTE haircuts, and John, you seem to be using rogue game. So anyhow. Let's just put it this way. I I was listening to all these great folks, and the thing that uh the the process that I use that I have found to be very effective, which kind of ties Jeff and Christine's points together. I do an interview that's almost a reverse interview. So once uh everyone's decided that, yeah, we want to hire this person, then I sit down with every new hire for a half an hour. And I talk about all the things that make people upset that we're here. You gotta pay for parking, you gotta do this, and that you can't sell that, and whatever. So I get all the negatives out because I want to ensure that they don't get here and the things that I cannot impact don't cause a problem. And that list has grown over time. I ask them, I come back and I ask them, hey, is it what did I not tell you you wish I'd have told you? And I don't get much back anymore because it's the list is kind of long. But I think that Christine, we we we find these good folks, and if they come through the door and then we upset them in the first 90 days, they're gonna look somewhere else. So I feel it's real important to have that honest communication. You're probably not gonna like that you're gonna have to pay at least$300 to park. When it goes, you're gonna park next to door is gonna be two grand.
SPEAKER_01:I think what's hitting at is exactly what I was talking about with the culture fit, right? Like you may not have to pay to park if you go work at company ABC, but here you do. But here's what we can offer instead. And maybe that matters, and maybe it doesn't. And if it doesn't matter, then maybe this isn't the right fit because you won't be happy. And then there's a sense, and which is the that that's the key to retention, right? So I think like exactly what you're doing, calling out the things that are going to upset people. Let's have that conversation now so you know is the key to retention. Talk about that before they're before they're hungry.
SPEAKER_04:Tell them to say, before you say ado, let's get the I don'ts out of the way. I don't give you free parking. I don't this, I don't that. If at the end of the day, if you still have this calling for health care, then let's make this happen. But I don't want you to come here and feel like eh, whatever. So I I think that's a a tidbit that I would uh recommend others consider. Have that communication before they say I do, because once they've said I do, anything that's negative, why didn't I know that?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I call that managing the perception, manage manage the perception of their expectations, is what I call that.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And and listening to this, you know, as everybody's talked about it, really it also embodies understanding the belief systems of the different generations that we're hiring. I mean, this is the first time in the history of employment over the last you know 10 years. We actually have five generations of employees that are working for us, and each one of them comes with a different sense and understanding of what it is that they're expecting out of that employment and how you communicate to those people exactly what Bobby was talking about, and you know how John was talking about it. It's different for every one of them because what's important to one set is not important to another set. And yeah, there's some one-offs, but generally, I think Christine's probably found that it's similar enough to where we have to understand what is important to those individuals.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I'd like to support Bobby's statement about getting the uh the negatives out of the way. Uh, at our initial interview, uh, we always talk about the fact that I'm looking for a customer service expert with a specialty in pick any trade. HVAC great, an HVAC technician. You are the subject matter expert. But that doesn't mean that's the only thing you're gonna do. Everybody gets their hands dirty and gets involved in a code brown. For those who couldn't figure that out, that would be a sanitary problem with uh plumbing. Toilets clogged, maybe having to pull a toilet and snake the drain. Uh, but I don't have enough plumbers uh in order to only let them do that kind of dirty work. So if you can't accept those terms that uh you're gonna do and other duties as assigned, which is in your resume, I'm sorry, in your job description, then uh this is not a good place for you.
SPEAKER_03:John, I and I spent a lot of time with the staff in the same vein as you heard me say when I did my introduction. I actually come from a clinical background. So I was working on the operation side and with the clinicians and the therapists and and the medical staff. And I explained to them the meeting the engineers and the other support services folks, I cannot explain to them enough how inextorably they are entwined with the clinical care team. Uh their success will predict the outcomes of the patients in some cases. And uh if there's anything that I've worked on in the time that I've spent in operations for plant uh for facility management, is uh get the team to understand that they are absolutely 100% part of the care team and shouldn't shy away from that. Uh, particularly the engineers who didn't want to go into the patient rooms because uh they thought they were interfering with the care. Actually, you you are part of the care team. People cannot do their jobs unless we take care of the stuff in order to be able to make them uh possible for them to do their jobs.
SPEAKER_02:Two quick things there, and then I'm gonna shoot Christine. You shouldn't have agreed to appear here because you're kind of like the HR uh person. But I want to kick it off with you because Jeff, you mentioned it. But Bobby, you know, you talked about um getting the the the bad out there, getting the ugly out just to level the playing field. I found at the end when I was doing just the recruiting with Goslin Martin before I transferred over to Kraft last couple years, especially post. Post-COVID, when the hiring or when the employee feel was really starting to shrink, I worked with some organizations that did not do that. And you're exactly right, and Christine, I'm sure you've seen this. I would have candidates come back to me and they would say, Pete, you didn't tell me this. And you know what? You feel, I felt that burden. And there was nothing I could say. I was like, well, they didn't tell me either, but that doesn't work. So you're exactly right. That is increased out there. And I think that's probably only going to increase more because they can't find people. So 100% on that, it was very frustrating to me in the recruiting world. Jeff, you mentioned generations. Before you joined uh Common Spirit, I mean, as you know, so Jeff got his MBA in right in in leadership at Southern Cal. And Jeff and I would talk a lot. And Jeff was kind of that sounding board for the generations he was going to school with. I still remember some of the stories you would tell me, how they would look up to you and ask you the questions, kind of that oracle. But Christine, to you, what did you find? And what are you finding generationally are some of the differences, not just in facilities, open it up to the broad, you've got all generations in your organization. What are some of the biggest differences you're finding? And then after that, gentlemen, you you chime in too, please.
SPEAKER_01:I think the number one, the number one thing that we were just talking about with my with my leader of facilities was the lack of this is mine and I care and and I I need to make sure I do the best I can. Instead, it's just sort of a job. Like I'm doing work, you're paying me, and I'm leaving at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_06:It's transactional.
SPEAKER_01:It's very thank you. It's very transactional. Um, whereas I think perhaps some other generations feel very connected and committed, and they don't just shut it down after the fact. And I think that that's a shift. I think this goes across multiple generations, but the almost the requirement of flexibility now, flexibility is expected because there's aging parents, there are people who are having children, young families, and there are just competing priorities, and there's there's multiple things pulling on people, and and if we want to keep a good employee, we're going to have to be flexible. We're going to have to acquiesce a bit. Um, whereas maybe in the past we hadn't had to.
SPEAKER_00:I'm a big proponent of flex time to uh plan let people solve their problems in their personal life because what I was taught in the Marine Corps is you own them 24-7. You take care of everything from birth to death with them and their immediate family. So if they got issues going on, find out what they are and figure out how it can get solved. My first hospital I went to, the uh director that I reported to as a manager, he would not allow or approve any time off request if it if it was uh is it is impacting the schedule that was posted. He always kept a six-week look-ahead schedule. And I told him, I said, Kent, I said, how can you plan for the fact that your child, your dog, your spouse, maybe your vehicle needs attention, you can't wait six more weeks. I said, you don't hold yourself to that standard, and neither should we hold them to that standard. And if you care for your employees and love them, uh you're going to find employees that stay forever. I went to HR telling HR director, I think it's time that I move on. And um he says, I can only tell you this, John. No one's come to HR since your day of hire. And it was a steady stream. But um, I think the uh renters, the the the the conversation of renters, squatters, and owners. Management is your owners, guaranteed. They're supposed to be. And if you're lucky, you get a lot of your frontline staff as uh owners. And then uh, but a renter is good, they're reliable, they're on time, they're competent, they do their job. But then we got our squatters, that 10%, so to speak. Those are the ones that are a cancer and need to find a new occupation, new employer. But I talked about that with every group I've ever brought on board, whether uh they're hiring on, or whether it was me orientating myself to my team, like I did back in February. I talked about renters, squatters, and owners. And I hope that we have a lot of owners, and I hope everyone becomes an owner, because it really works perfect when uh we do. And morale is high when you've got a lot of owners.
SPEAKER_02:One of the ways that I think we've been able to grow departments over the years is even that informal mentorship because you're all in at the same time, and John, I see how you interact, and Bobby. I take something from all these people that I see, both the good and the bad. We don't necessarily have that anymore with so many people working remotely. Can you talk a little bit about mentorship and and developing that next generation? You know, we we we know what we're lacking. How do we how do we develop good mentorship in 2025 with the challenges that are out there?
SPEAKER_06:I think you know, we can be aligned in the understanding that uh mentorship certainly, you know, you're gonna need people that are that are willing to go there because really that's an investment on in their their own investment in themselves. But at the same time, it needs to be intentional with respect to the time and how long you're gonna do that and the periodicity that we're gonna do that with, because it isn't a one and done thing. This is, you know, when you're talking about mentorship, you're talking about life skills. Coaching is more along the line of technical aspects of how you start a boiler, how you sweep a cleaner room, whatever those things are. That's coaching aspect. When we're talking about mentorship, this is more of a whole life approach that also includes the work things that we're talking about. So you're gonna talk about a lot of things that while apply at work are really directed towards things that are outside of work. And that's really what mentors do. So if you think of any of the great mentors that any of you know, um, that's really what we're talking about. So I think that that mentorship aspect that really does have to be intentional and it has to be uh primarily driven by the person that is seeking that guidance because really that's what they're looking for is that wisdom and understanding that comes from years of doing things that are similar, might be in the same industry, might not be, but they they really do affect the outcomes of how well we do what we need to do.
SPEAKER_01:I would just add that I think it's also because I'm I've gone through this a number of times with my own HR leadership team. Um we as leaders need to make sure we are intentionally grabbing those folks who want the mentorship and who want to learn so that we dedicate our time to them to give them the skills, the knowledge, um, and the experience and expertise so that they can continue to grow rather than sort of waiting for them to seek us out. I think it's also beneficial if it goes the other way. And um, we see, and I'm sure we've all seen this, right? We've all seen the spark in someone who's asking the question. They might, they want to learn a little bit more, they want to understand the why. And um I think having people like us reach out to them and show an interest, it really lifts, it lifts them up. Um, and they can they can be with us and then they can be a good succession plan.
SPEAKER_03:And for me, the the mentoring is by far the most exciting and uh and stimulating part of what I'm currently doing is that I I am a remote worker. Uh my region requires me. I I'm not into the uh day-to-day at each of the accounts that we take care of. I'm I'm supporting the directors that are there. But by far the most fun that I've had recently, uh particularly for my tenure with Airmark, is we've hired four very young, new, exciting managers that came from no healthcare experience whatsoever. So their acumen is very high as far as uh facility management. Some of the two of them actually have degrees uh uh in that. And one of them we got right out of their internship after they graduated. And for me to sit there and and spend at least a couple hours, each visit I have with these different accounts and talk to them just about healthcare. And uh, or or I think it was Bob that mentioned too you know, explaining to staff what's so exciting and the calling that comes with healthcare uh compared to other areas of facility management. And what I tell them is that you you know, I congratulate them because they reached the pinnacle of their profession. Nothing is going to challenge them or give them the satisfaction that we get working within the healthcare environment. But the mentoring, talking to them, going through scenarios, talking about what is different about healthcare compared to a uh a business occupancy or a sports venue or a uh a server farm, which would that would kill me. That's so boring. Anyway, with that having been said, uh, it's exciting to talk to these young folks uh and to hear how and to watch them uh uh grow in their roles. Um and uh but I also do it with the staff themselves, uh uh reinvigorating some of the older folks that we have that are that are uh getting tired, but uh reminding them why they got into the field in the first place. I I actually spent uh maybe I should do some uh what do they call it, uh therapy charges for or for the folks for the uh for the well-being that we talk about for them and convince them to stay on. But uh for me, mentoring has been uh by far the the most uh pledgeable part of what I've been doing here most recently.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's also just to sort of tag on what you were saying, because it got me thinking about Bobby, what you were sharing in the beginning, and you want to, you know, you share the realistic, I call it the realistic job interview. So no, but there's no surprises when someone starts, hopefully they'll stay. And this is sort of the flip side to it, right? Like we're gonna make you pay for parking, but here's what we also can offer you, right? I can I can teach you all of this other stuff, you know. Chris and Jeff, what you were talking about. So it's it's then honing in on is that somebody who wants that? And then they're more likely to stay.
SPEAKER_02:If you like this video, please like and subscribe to the network. And more importantly, share it with your colleagues in the healthcare industry. Together, we can solve the aging crisis that's impacting all of us. You still run into, and I'm sure you guys have experienced this, but you still talk to people who are afraid or intimidated or don't share with everything that you folks were just talking about because they're afraid it will cost them their job. It's their you know, they lose their job insurance, and that still exists out there. I you I still run into that, and it's interesting. I guess it's naive to think it wouldn't exist, right? Because part of it's the human condition. We're not here to talk psychology, but um any comment on that other one.
SPEAKER_01:It is interesting though, because I think we've all agreed, right? From the like first five minutes of our conversation, the people, the people is a the people are a problem, right? We don't have enough people. So everyone's if people are afraid of losing their job because they're mentoring. It's like there's plenty of work to be done. Like, I don't think we're short of work. And and then the flip side, I've always approached it as well, if I can mentor you to do part of my job and you're happy doing that and it's something new, I get to go do something else, right? I mean, Peter, it's how I ended up overseeing facilities and EVS and dietary and all those other functions, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_01:So you have to be open, I think, to taking on other opportunities.
SPEAKER_06:You know, it's interesting when we talk about this topic of people having a little bit of fear of, you know, quote being found out, right? That they don't know something that maybe they think other people feel they should know. And I don't think that's unique to this industry. I think that's just a human condition. And so really it's about that mindset of you know, a fixed mindset or a growth mindset. Do you do you have an understanding that you're going to come across across things you don't know? And okay, that's okay. So you're learning, right? Yeah, you are. And what we all the data shows and what all the the uh reports um demonstrate is that most people uh in pick the industry are working at two to three levels below their their peak performance level because of many different factors. But really uh the organizations are going to going to improve the most is by actually causing people to work at top of their license, whatever that license happens to be, right? So if I'm comfortable doing a particular task that I've done for the last 20, 30 years, that might not be what I'm getting paid to do today. So if I'm doing it, then I'm not allowing somebody that I am paying to do that to do it, right? And so it's it's also not getting me to operate at the top of my license. And so I really have to be mindful of making sure that I'm creating that space for them to step into. And if they're struggling with it, then we have some conversations about it along the lines of, hey, let me let me help me and help me understand what it is that I need to do to create uh confidence in you that you're going to be okay, it's gonna be successful, we'll get through this together, but I can't keep doing what I've been doing because that that keeps me from doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
SPEAKER_02:At the fiat conference that I went to in November, which is the second fiat drop, John. There's no better MC than you in keeping things on schedule. And but Bobby, you guys in that little round table that you had with Jordan and the other gentleman whose name escapes me, you guys were talking exactly about what Jeff brought up relative to if I'm doing something, who am I holding back? Kind of letting go and and and not getting stuck in your comfort. But I do want to direct this question to you, Bobby, first. Let's look back at 2025 and ahead to 2026, kind of combine them. What concerned you or what's what surprised you coming out of 2025 that we're still dealing with wide open? And as you look ahead to 2026, what do you see for opportunity or possibility?
SPEAKER_04:I'm gonna completely leave the topics we were on and throw a curveball at all you gentlemen and ladies. And the biggest issue that stands out for me in 2025 is that we have still not removed ourselves from the just in time no longer works supply chain issues that were started with COVID. So COVID set up this big supply chain problem, and I felt confident that 2025 we'd be out of it. And that has not been the case. We are still in trouble with supply chain, and I can say that with a significant amount of authority. Um we have seen such business uh possible business interrupting issues that we have now have our own supply of parts like boards, controllers, breakers, motors that we keep an inventory throughout our organization because no longer can I pick up the phone and find something in a factory. So for me, it has become more operational and less human on this particular front, and that's the big piece. So that's my two cents, three cents now. You're up to three now.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you I know I've known you for years, Bobby, and you fooled me because I actually thought you were gonna go with the responsible medical authority. Is it RMA with the medical gas system? Because we've been trying to get traction on that for two years, which is now a code requirement that uh there be a designated uh responsible medical gas authority for the hospital. And how does that training look? And so you Bobby's been a huge proponent pushing with me to uh get the rest of our peers in uh Evan Hell, not Evan Help, but uh uh Florida, regardless of your organization. Yeah, to um so we finally have traction, I think, for uh the spring show to uh sit down for a nice long class and get that certification. You actually brought up a stronger one.
SPEAKER_06:Go ahead. No, I think what Bobby was was illustrating was right on point because you know our buildings aren't getting any younger, and um the parts that are available aren't. And so many of us have to go to artisans that will actually make the parts. We can't even buy them on third party sites anymore, and at the end of the day, they got to run. And we don't have a capital, as John mentioned um earlier, to buy new. So we have to keep what we have running. And so that that resonated with me when he said, Hey, it you know, this just in time and have an inventory. We've actually gone to a parts inventory clearinghouse in our organization because we we have so many things that aren't working anymore and and we can't go find the part and they're stopped being supported, and it's just that simple.
SPEAKER_04:I don't think it's that simple, Jeff, but okay, go for it.
SPEAKER_06:No, well, I don't think it's that simple. It's it's just that straightforward. I mean, we we have to we have to go forward and be creative with what it is we're gonna do and how we're gonna do it, because at the end of the day, the the equipment still has to work so that the providers can still have a space to do their job.
SPEAKER_03:The lack of or the willingness to spend capital in order to be able to uh not only, and I'm not even talking about maintaining these old systems, but to look at um replacing them and and and the struggles I've come across and getting our clients to uh upgrade their building automation system. I have a client that is still running Windows 95 to on part of on one part of their building automation system, which is insane to me. And uh you know that that's a challenge. And the other challenge I see in the same vein as far as uh the supply chain and stuff coming in is that uh our vendors, we have a lot of capital projects that we can't get off the ground because the people that have uh uh bid on the RFP and have won it have do not have the staff in order to be able to supply uh the labor in order to get some of these projects off. So I had a couple projects that were supposed to be done by this summer. Uh, one of them was a big roofing project that we had that wasn't gotten done in Pennsylvania and uh where they just had six inches of snow over the weekend. And you know, issues like that are are what we're struggling with as well.
SPEAKER_04:Not a problem until it melts.
SPEAKER_03:Uh yeah, that's so true.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you know, that's really interesting that you bring that up. And that's where I was going. You know, you can see, and you guys know this because you've all been around for a while, but how like all of if we just start from the premise of aging buildings and aging infrastructure, and Bobby, you kind of bring the supply chain into it. And we see where years of deferred maintenance catches up and where like it's almost like a perfect storm of all of the ills of the past. And when you're operating something so old, a building that's so old, now you have parts that we can't get. It's it's I was thinking, Jeff, as you were talking, it would be, and I don't know if it would resonate, but almost in some ways, like a powerful, if you take the totality, like take things out of their silos, because we do that so often in healthcare. Like take each of these components out of the silo and put a story together for C level leadership. Maybe it doesn't move the needle to get you the money that you need. Maybe, you know, maybe it's not powerful, but like it really paints. A picture for how we can't run much further from where we are, right? There's gonna come a breaking point.
SPEAKER_06:I think you're exactly right in being able to shift the conversation because in all of our organizations, we all struggle with there's a finite amount of capital that's there. That's just the way it is. And so, really, it's being able to inform the decision makers about where that capital goes on what happens when it doesn't go to the right place. And I'm not suggesting facilities maintenance or operations is the right place solely, because we know that's not true, right? We have upgrades to all of our IT systems, as Chris was talking about, that just haven't happened. And so now we're in a position where how do we get the right information? It's being able to paint that picture for the decision makers that say this much capital goes to these lanes because it it is just there's only so much to go around. But at the end of the day, if we don't have the ability to keep our spaces um open for the people that actually physically touch a patient, that that makes a pretty short conversation.
SPEAKER_04:We as facility leaders, our purpose is to keep the facility up all the time. And that's what we do. We pull every plug we can to keep that facility from going down. And if we do a good job, when we go to our leadership and say, I need this money for this, they're like, We don't have any problems. Why do you need this money? Right? So we have this, and Peter you call it a perfect storm. That's what we're doing. So we keep it running, we say we need to replace it, they say it's running. What's the problem? And then when we finally have that failure, and I've got to have this part right now, and I look at the leadership and go 56 weeks to have that built. We've kind of made our own bed here. Not letting it fail, and maybe not being persuasive enough. I've taken board members to boiler rooms and to places that you don't want them to go and say, take a look at this. You you really like the way that looks? I don't sometimes you have to show them the bad and the ugly to get them on board. Um, if you're doing a good job and you don't have failures, that's great. But it kind of makes for a hard sell when you want that money.
SPEAKER_00:I have a huge collection. You'd think I have a fetish with toilets and cast iron pipe, but I keep this folder in my uh phone because the few times I've had conversations about spending money, um, I said, really? Which one of these photos are you okay with ending up on Bay News 9, Fox 13 news channel, or on social media? Uh, because I wouldn't think having help with any of these. I said, so that was unbudgeted, unplanned money that we spent on the operating budget to solve this problem. I heard something I really appreciated a couple months ago. CFO said at a leadership meeting, I have no problem approving John's request on spending money because I know his level of confidence and I know if he tells me you need it, we need it. But um I don't believe in uh going to the meeting uh accepting defeat. I go in there with the visualization that I'm gonna get what I need and what I want. And it's been extremely rare that I've not achieved what I needed because I give a good visual story of and pictures or draw a picture and theory of operation why we need it.
SPEAKER_02:Let's look ahead to 2026. What do you anticipate? What can you anticipate? What are you hopeful for?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I think from a workforce perspective, I my wish, right, is a little less um last-minute executive orders constantly being thrown around. Those have been a challenge this past year. So a few more of those would be helpful. Um you know, when they come at the last minute, they send everybody in a flurry, everybody starts to panic. Um and then I think intentional onboarding an intentional pipeline uh development.
SPEAKER_02:What's intentional onboarding?
SPEAKER_01:It's not dropping the new higher operator to sit in a full-day program and then picking them up and then dropping them in the in the whatever break room office to chat with your colleagues and figure out what to do. The majority of the people, right, show up to work, they're excited about their new job, and they want to do a good job. And I don't think that we do a great job as leaders. I know all of us do, talking about others. Um do a great job setting someone up for success, their first day, their first week, their first month, right? So um we're beginning here, and we're starting this with an HR, building out who do people need to sit with, who do they need to talk to, why do they need to talk to these people so that they're explaining to the new hires in the team, you're meeting with me because I need to show you XYZ, right? It gets them to understand why they're there and then beginning to draw the connections, making them, you know. I think Christian, I think it was you. You had shared about how they are part of the care team. That is that's huge, right? That they're not just there to clock in, do a job, clock out. Like this is how you feel you fit in to this large puzzle that is healthcare. Like you matter here, and what you do matters, and it impacts the patient experience.
SPEAKER_04:2026 is going to have a, in my opinion, a lot of focus on AI. And that focus is going to have to be intentional and cautious in nature. Uh I have utilized AI. I actually have a digital twin up and running in Ocala. We're still gathering data, but we're probably six months from being able to start listening to what the twin has to say. Um that said, uh, AI currently, for me, I use it to help me look for code references and that type thing that I don't use on a daily basis. But what I've learned is it'll get you in the chapter. It might even get you in the subsection, but it's not always right. So I would encourage um anyone listening to this to consider uh letting AI or copilot or whatever your form of intelligence, uh artificial intelligence might be. But be sure to validate what it says or what it returns to you because I've found that it is very helpful, but it's not always completely right. So I think 2026 is gonna have a lot of pressure for us to respond, at least in my organization, I can tell you that's gonna be the case. How are you using AI in your daily business to make your business more effective, more efficient? And uh I you know I certainly have some things to talk about there, but I do believe that uh that will be something that we have to focus on as an as an industry and as a subset in the healthcare industry for our facilities.
SPEAKER_00:John. Yes. So uh I started using AI probably around October this year, and a few things I noticed is the fact that it might use the wrong word. So someone read it would say, You're an idiot. Why'd you use this word? Well, it's because you took at face value that AI is uh error-proof. It's not. Two, uh, whatever you do, capture and use somewhere, please get rid of the hyphens. Because the first thing I think of is, oh, this person's not the author. Uh AI is. Get rid of those darn long hyphens. Number three, I used it to uh save a lot of money on a recent uh job. It was approximately$157,000 to replace 800 linear feet of cast iron pipe. And I'm thinking to myself, am I getting a fair rate? And I actually put the actual quote, uploaded it and asked some questions and indicated the area in the market and acute care hospital. And it came back with three price tiers based upon uh what I had given and its justifications on why you might be paying higher in acute care hospital. And then I got to thinking, but the area of 800 linear feet is all mechanical room space, and therefore you don't have the ICR containment problems, and you don't have the difficulty of working in ceiling grades with maybe two-foot openings, that this gear is a much cheaper, simpler, faster job. So the labor rate should not be charged for that location like it would be for a normal patient care area. So I went back to um my vendor. I didn't tell them I used AI, but uh I went ahead and told them these arguments why I feel that this price point is not fair and it should be factored into the type of space. And believe it or not, they brought it right down to that sweet spot of the mid-tier, like it said, would be for a hospital. But uh AI did not know that it was a mechanical room space, it only knew it was an acute care hospital. And uh so I got that down to about 127,000, I think it was. But um, it's been helpful.
SPEAKER_03:I I was thinking back on Christine's comment is uh uh the intentional onboarding or or uh the the best organizations that I've worked for or worked with are the ones that spent an inordinate amount of time on bringing their folks on onto the staff. Uh, I think of one hospital I worked with years ago, I was on the executive team, and my entire onboarding process took the first 90 days that I was there. I was not doing it during the entire 90 days, but it was systematically in my calendar when I first got there, is uh what they brought me through to uh learn how they do things and incorporate me to the corporate culture they have. And those companies that do spend that time and effort and not have orientation in one day and then just turn the people loose, like I see perfectly out there with uh with my company to be quite frankly, and with others, uh they are by far the most successful. Uh the other thing I that I'm excited about seeing coming up in 2026 is that uh I work with our recruitment uh and uh acquisition team uh on non-traditional ways to find some folks. And they have been uh working on it the last quarter of 25, and we are beginning to see the fruit of it. Things that we talked about uh on where we should be looking for staff, particularly for new managers, because I think a lot of management uh positions are not going filled. Uh we've been recruiting at the maritime academies that has been a great place to find some really raw talent that are coming out with their bachelor's degrees. Uh and they look at you a little crazy because they're saying, you know, I've been working on ships and we talk about the systems and how they all relate. And uh we've uh in fact I mentioned one of them that uh that I'm entering is that we hired them out from uh the New York Maritime uh Academy. And so uh uh we're also uh a lot of military folks to fill the rank and file. Uh we have been working with a lot of the VFAs or the VFWs, I'm sorry, to uh to find some folks that are uh interested in jobs. Love Air Force guys to work in clinical engineering. Uh a lot of uh they transitioned very well uh into the uh clinical engineering side and have utilized that. Tom Elliott came out of traveling. Well, yeah, exactly. And uh uh so we're you know, we're we're excited to see these things come online and and how they will uh how and how they will do in 2026, uh uh at least for our company.
SPEAKER_06:Excellent. Jeff. Well, I gotta hand it to Bobby for bringing up the AI conversation because that's something that I know I need to get better at. And I I really need to dive into how I can be more effective with it. And really, I think the the thing that I'm hearing in 26 is you know, everybody's talking about, hey, well, you know, how's AI going to affect your job? You're gonna lose people. I don't think that's true. I think the only people you use with respect to AI are people that don't understand how to employ AI. I think there's gonna be plenty of work that's available. And uh to John's point, I've done similar but different things where I've taken information, loaded it up, whether it's in spreadsheets or PDFs, and I said, analyze this data for me, and it comes back with the great information. Now, granted, to John's point, you do have to know what to ask it. Um, and so if you ask it the right questions, it's a great speed, uh, speed drill for them or for that entity. Uh, and it comes to, you know, but verify. So it comes down to making sure that you're getting an answer that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, we are coming up to kind of our hard end. So I want to thank my guest, Bobby Baird from UF Health, John Crouch from Advent Health, Chris Ensman from Aramark, Jeff Schuler from Common Spirit, Christine Perry from Saratoga Hospital. But before, I think we have another three minutes or so, I just want to leave it with you guys because we had a bunch of questions pre uh pre-show that we were knocking around. Is there anything that we did not get to that I did not ask you about that you kind of had on your mind that you want to bring in? So I'm giving the last word to each of you, and I'll just go around the table. Anything you want to bring up, anything we didn't touch on that you think is important from 2025, 2026, or anything you've heard, I will start. Christine, I'm gonna go with you last if that's okay. Bobby, I'm gonna start at the bottom left. We'll go with you first.
SPEAKER_04:Hopefully, uh as an industry, we will continue to morph into more reliable. Uh, I did not, I guess reliability is the thing I would like to uh leave the group with. Um I we do maintenance, we need to do reliability-centered maintenance. Uh, shout out to Devin. Look into it if you haven't done it. You might find a few hours available to do other important stuff if you look at it. That's all I have to say. Thank you, sir. Thanks, Peter, for having me.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Bobby. Jeff.
SPEAKER_06:I think the one thing that we we didn't get an opportunity to talk about, which could be its own show in its own right, is what is the future of healthcare looking for us? Because as the one big beautiful bill comes into play, I think fundamentally how healthcare is delivered in the next five to ten years is gonna not be what it's been like for the last 20 or 30. So it's a totally different conversation, going in a different direction. But I think that's that's gonna be a big, big shift for us in our world.
SPEAKER_02:Great topic. Thank you, Jeff. Uh John.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, uh, spend money to get your team training, invest in them. They will invest in your hospital. I uh pushed out to a lot of the people I know in FHEA uh an opportunity I'm putting together, and you'll get a good 20% discount if you uh sign on and commit. And I got them to even approve purchase orders. I made it as easy as possible. And this one was MEC training. If we uh get our frontline staff with that first investment in them as certifications, that self-pride, maybe they feel that they can keep moving forward and become a supervisor, manager, director.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, John. Christine.
SPEAKER_01:I don't I don't think I have anything additional. We talked about workforce issues a lot, and so I'm happy to come back and talk about it again.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. My pleasure. My pleasure. Chris, you got the last word.
SPEAKER_03:Well, Jeff, Jeff nailed it on the uh he nailed it on the head for me because uh for those that are listening, you you've got to understand what's coming down the pipe as far as healthcare financing. It drives everything. Uh sometimes we get too much in our own, our heads are down, and we're we're worried about our infrastructure and taking care of those things. But I encourage you all to look up and look out to what is coming up as far as the challenges that the healthcare executives are dealing with and how to manage the financing that they are going to be receiving to keep the hospitals up and running. Um I I could talk about that for another couple hours as far as what's coming down the pipe, but uh us in the facility management area have got to be able to put ourselves in the role of the CFO and understand what is what is coming to fund what we do and how do we work within that environment.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that was outstanding. Folks, you did not let me down. I appreciate I I knew it would be far ranging. So I I thank you all for your time. For those of you who have tuned in, happy holidays, happy new year, seasons, greetings, whatever you do, have fun. And we'll be back in 2020. I was gonna say 2029. We'll be back in 2026. Thank you to my guests. I truly appreciate your time. Have a great day. Thanks for checking in. If you want to be a guest on a future episode of the Healthcare Facilities Network, go to healthcarefacilitiesnetwork.com and let us know who you are and what you want to talk about because together we can solve this critical aging issue.