Healthcare Facilities Network
The Healthcare Facilities Network podcast highlights the essential role of facilities
management in delivering high-quality patient care. Hosted by Peter Martin, this show brings you expert insights on the issues, trends, and solutions shaping the future of healthcare spaces. Learn from industry leaders and discover ways to drive positive change in your facility.
Healthcare Facilities Network
ASHE Presidents on the Future of Healthcare Facilities Management
Leadership transitions matter in healthcare facilities management. In this special episode of Healthcare Facilities Network, we sit down with Michael Hatton, 2025 ASHE President, and Dennis Ford, 2026 ASHE President, for a candid conversation about ASHE leadership, continuity, and the future of healthcare facilities management.
Michael reflects on the initiatives he is most proud of from his term as president, what surprised him most once he stepped into the role, and the lessons he learned while leading through a complex and evolving industry. Dennis shares his perspective as incoming president, including his day-one priorities, where he plans to focus his energy, and how he is preparing to lead ASHE into its next chapter.
Together, Michael and Dennis discuss the major issues facing healthcare facilities professionals today, from operational pressures and workforce challenges to long-term planning and leadership continuity. Their insights offer a clear look at how ASHE leadership is thinking about what is ahead and how facilities teams can stay aligned, resilient, and prepared for the future.
Whether you are a healthcare facilities leader, an emerging professional, or someone navigating change within your organization, this conversation provides valuable perspective on leadership, transition, and the evolving role of facilities management in healthcare.
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👥 Connect with Dennis Ford: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dennis-ford-mha-chfm-chc-fashe-56853a51/
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Why do organizations though allow silos to go on when there's so much at risk?
SPEAKER_02:If your team is putting the budget together for any capital project, it's just a line item you need to put in there to handle those items. So I think a lot of it is ignorance of the maybe the holistic approach to taking care of the life cycle of a facility and understanding that it's our mission to do that. And I've broken down those barriers just by influencing, following up, you know, focusing. I haven't won every battle, but I've won most of the battles. And, you know, continuing to put people in place that support that mission and are collaborative.
SPEAKER_03:Mike just gave you the answer, and it's funny because we we've said it all of our careers, and that is we we think that the engineers and PDC folks should do a tournament facility operations first, uh, because it it really is eye-opening, at least uh spend some time shadowing uh in those areas.
SPEAKER_00:There's a major crisis facing healthcare facilities management. We have aging employees, aging buildings, and aging infrastructure. We've created the healthcare facilities network, a content network designed specifically to help solve for these three pressing issues in healthcare facilities management. We bring on thought leaders and experts from across healthcare facilities management, all the way from the C-suite to the technician level, because at the end of the day, we're all invested in solving the aging issue. Thanks for tuning in. Look at our videos, you will find that is a theme across our content. This is the Healthcare Facilities Network. I'm your host, Peter Martin.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, sure. Thanks, Pete. Uh Dennis Ford. I am uh currently working for Advocate Health based out of uh Charlotte. We have uh over 70 uh acute care uh facilities, and I'm uh working in uh facility management uh support. I've been in the industry for over 30 years. I've been a member of ASHI for over 30 years, and I did spend a great deal of my uh career in Texas at multiple facilities, and that's where Mike and I met uh as we got involved with uh TAFM, the Texas Association for Facility Management. How many years how many years have you guys known each other? Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_02:Probably, I'd hate to admit, probably 20. That's probably a good guess. Since the Texas Children's Days, way back when. That's right. No, before that, even before that.
SPEAKER_03:He knew me when I was still in San Antonio. That's right. So fun fun fact, uh, when Michael Hatton was president of TAFOM, uh I was in Houston, and he taps me and says, Dennis, I need you to be the regional rep for San Antonio. And I said, Mike, you do know I moved to Houston. He said, Yes, but you came from San Antonio, and we need to engage that crowd. So uh I was happy to go back and get some folks together uh and get them involved in TAFOM. That's right.
SPEAKER_02:I'd forgotten about that because that was a really underserved market for the TAF, and it really helped us grow that uh member base. Michael Hatton again, Mike, uh vice president for facilities engineering and construction for Memorial Herman. And we are in the Houston area and the Houston uh suburbs. Uh, we're the largest not-for-profit in this area, and we've got, I think, about 17 campuses and 280 uh retail locations, all in what they would call the Houston Metro region. And when I started in Houston many, many years ago, it was really a smaller city, maybe the fifth or sixth largest city. And I think we're now number three, perhaps. So Houston has got massive growing pains, and Memorial Herman keeps growing with them. So I do everything from problem solving with elevators, which I was working on this morning, versus uh giant$600 million projects this afternoon. So a whole gamut in between, which keeps me out of trouble. And really it corresponds a lot to what all of us do in facilities management. We're not as narrowly focused these days as we would have been maybe 20 or 30 years ago. We've become quite the quite the generalist with a few very specific skills as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's a good way to put it. You've become quite the generalist, absolutely absolutely. And so uh what do Mike and Dennis have in common? So Mike is our 2025 uh Ashy president. Dennis is our 2026 Ashy president. Dennis is incoming, but when this comes out, you will be you will be the president. And I asked both Dennis and Mike to appear because it's always intrigued me or I've always been interested in, you know, you serve as president for a year, right? You have a year where you're the apprentice, I can't, what do they call it, the the president to be, and then you're the president, and then you're the past president, so you get that three-year term. But it's just always, you know, to me, it's always been like, well, how do you accomplish things in that short period of time? And and how, what type of interactions do presidents need to have to have some continuity and be able to really affect change? And we're gonna talk about some of those things, the future of Ashie, what you guys see as big issues. But what I wanted to start first, Mike, let's start with you, please. As the outgoing president, what accomplishment, what initiative from your tenure over the past year are you most proud of and why?
SPEAKER_02:Oh excellent question. I thought quite a bit about it. And when you really look back, I think what I tried to bring the organization back to is I call it back to the basics was innovation, was my tagline. I mean, we're still talking about conquering the deferred maintenance and infrastructure items. Uh, there's still so many dollars to be saved with utilities and utilities uh cost efficiency and things like that. And then also I've spent a lot of time harping on eliminating what our keynote speaker at HICFA this summer mentioned as zombies. You know, at uh the industry we do so many things, they call them sallies and zombies. Do they provide any real value to patient care? Do they really improve safety, or is it just things that we've already done? My favorite phrase is to ask why. So I think if I haven't turned the ship, I've at least got our organization thinking more about those basics of uh facilities management, especially now in these days of you know, even more pressures on cost control.
SPEAKER_00:Does healthcare as an industry Does it avail itself to that question of asking why?
SPEAKER_02:Do you guys find I really do not think we do, especially with the whole regulatory environment. A lot of that stuff, you know, we've been doing it the same way for 20 or 30 years, and there's a fear factor involved versus really stepping back and doing more of the evidence-based processes like we may use in a clinical or a more of a scientific. But, you know, we've been a lot of times we're reactive. The code has always said this or someone's interpretation of the code. So I think our industry could benefit a lot more from the quality principles that, you know, were I guess they were really originated over in Japan, you know, with the whole auto industry and such, and ask why and try to work on those lean processes. We talk a good line, but we still debate the same little nuances. And I wonder, do we really bring value to the to the bottom line of safety or finances?
SPEAKER_00:Dennis, what about you?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, well, uh Mr. Hatton uh has been president, uh, I think uh Ashie had released the uh core competency framework, uh, which which really is uh getting back to basics, and and I really hope that our audience uh you know takes advantage of of the work that was put in into that. Um this industry is so big, and uh you you hear the saying, uh what you've seen one hospital, you've seen one hospital. And unfortunately that's true. So um, you know, it's something different every day, and I think that's what drives a lot of us that we enjoy that, uh, that it's something different every day. Um, and and there's different ways and different uh, I guess, strategies uh for maintenance, uh, and you'll see that across the uh industry. But there are uh a few areas that that I've really focused on that that are just uh passions uh for me. Uh one's always been uh computerized maintenance management system, CMMS, and I think that that has now evolved into a term that we call digital twins, and and that's springboarding us right into AI, which is a huge topic today. And and I just I feel very strongly uh that ASHI needs to help us uh set some national standards because our our business partners, uh which are are wonderful to work with, um, all have differing opinions and views, I think, on what digital twins are and what we need them for. Uh, and I think we need to, I guess, take take the initiative to define, you know, what are the basics? You know, what is basic information necessary to run a facility, what could be truly automated uh uh into uh or created into an AI agent, what kind of data analytics would we need? So I'm I'm really hoping to at least set some sort of foundation uh and movement uh uh to focus on that uh from an ASHI perspective. Uh another passion of mine that's been a passion since day one has been the transition from construction to maintenance. And you hear that uh Michael Hatton's uh title, uh even though he's in charge of facility operations, he he lays heavily on the construction side. And so we have those conversations a lot about you know, how how do you do a good handoff uh from construction to maintenance? Uh what's uh what's needed day one? And and I really call that survey ready day one. So can we define that as an industry as well and have our planning, design, and construction folks uh embrace that as a requirement that on day one, this is absolutely what we need to run a facility from an operations and facility maintenance uh perspective. And then the third item that that I've really been passionate and focused on lately, and it really goes back to the comment about when you've seen one hospital, you've seen one hospital. When it comes to emergency operational preparedness, that really should not be true. Uh can you imagine running 70 hospitals and every single hospital is unique in how we respond to an emergency situation? And having spent time in uh in Houston and actually starting my career in the panhandle of Florida, I'm very familiar with hurricanes and emergency operational preparedness from that perspective. And so it's an area where when you're in those areas, you have to be 100% prepared. So, you know, are our facility uh management folks prepared? Uh, and if you haven't seen uh a catastrophic event for the last 10 or 15 years, how many people on your staff have actually experienced it before? And how long can you count on those folks to respond appropriately in the event? Uh, and one area that I'm focused on with Ashie is a new handbook that we'll be hopefully releasing uh within the next six months or so, uh, risk management. And uh a lot of that will be covered in in that handbook as well.
SPEAKER_02:You know, picking back up on Dennis mentioning the you know, PDC functions versus facilities management, I think one of the probably success stories of my career is that we really don't not have that silo. I've broken down that barrier. And as Dennis says, you you've really got to take a team approach to that. And I would argue that much of our deferred maintenance and infrastructure challenges that a lot of hospitals or most hospitals face would disappear if we had a contiguous uh management and philosophy towards taking care of the facility over the life of that facility. It's not just your project, it's the neighboring features that support that project and the utility stream and the roof. I think I've argued about that in some of my columns this year, that we've really got to break down that barrier. And there's so many facilities, as Dennis mentioned, that still have a firm uh demarcation point that thou shalt not cross. That's really been detrimental to our overall hospital operations. So I really think that's something that we should continue that focus on and as Ashley grows and ash she evolves.
SPEAKER_00:Two questions. Number one, Mike, how did you eliminate that? What did you do at Memorial Herman to to to eliminate those silos? But number two, when there's so much on the line to being able to transition effectively, why do organizations I mean, you guys have to interact. You're tied together whether you like it or not. Why do organizations though allow silos to go on when there's so much at risk? So two-part question there, if you guys don't mind.
SPEAKER_02:Well, we could probably solve world peace if we could.
SPEAKER_00:You could, and we we wouldn't be able to talk about kind of you guys being actually presidents, but it would, you know, you brought it up and so many people still deal with it, Mike. So what are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_02:Possibly because I started out as a facility manager, and my education and background is I know the facilities and my first love are the buildings themselves, and I know the features and the systems. And you know, if you're putting the budget together, if your team is putting the budget together for any capital project, it's just a line item you need to put in there to handle those items. So I think a lot of it is ignorance of the maybe the holistic approach to taking care of the life cycle of a facility and understanding that it's our mission to do that. And and I've broken down those barriers just by influencing, following up, you know, focusing. I haven't won every battle, but I've won most of the battles. And, you know, continuing to put people in place that support that mission and are collaborative, whether it be an outside design team or an outside set of project people or internal resources as well. You've got to understand what the problem is. And then I think we just all have to work to build that collaboration, regardless of what your direct reporting structure is. I mean, we're all so highly matrixed these days.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Mike, Mike just gave you the answer, and it's funny because we we've said it all of our careers, and that is we we think that the engineers and PDC folks should do a tournament facility operations first, uh, because it it really is eye-opening, at least uh spend some time shadowing uh in those areas. Uh, but our our our key performance indicators uh are are different. Um uh budgets are set uh by C-suite uh people um and uh scopes are are typically defined uh at that level and and infrastructure is is not not a discussion unless we're inserted into the process. If somebody like Mike Hatton brings us in. But typically by the time we get to the table from a facility operations perspective, the budgets and the scope have already been set. And and what I tell facility operations uh and facility management folks is you you gotta understand that that you are a threat when you walk in that room because the project managers are taught and they get certifications on how to manage budget, schedules, and scope. And so the threats that they manage are threats to budget, schedule, and scope. So if you're not at the table from the very beginning, you're coming in to insert something that's going to impact uh budget schedule or scope or all three. And so you have to be uh poised enough to understand how to present your case within that structure. So, what is the decision-making structure that's been defined? Uh, are we using A3s to uh to put in our information or an S bar? Um, and and how do we fill that out? And how do we how do we get upper support uh for the areas that we're focused on? And from an emergency operational preparedness perspective, a lot of it is redundancy in equipment. And so what are the risk areas and what's the risk if we don't have redundancy uh in those areas? And we can we clearly uh speak to uh and define those impacts.
SPEAKER_02:But at the end of the day, it's about relationships and make sure there's relationships between the project management team who have to put together budgets and scope and the facilities managers, whatever their title is, and knowing the building and having their list and making sure you've got the political acumen to work behind the scenes and get those features into the project. So asking what you need, working on the redundancies, as Dennis says, that is the only time to get these things done. And I would suggest if our industry only solved one problem, that would probably be close to the top of the list because that directly supports the patient care mission, the life cycle of the hospital, and ultimately it also reduces operating expenses if we've got all those deferred maintenance items out of the way as well. So that handles all the items. And I don't want to discount anything how challenging it can be sometimes at some facilities, but it's it's a fairly low-tech approach. It's political skill and it's acumen and and building relationships and working on those behind the scenes. It doesn't happen overnight.
SPEAKER_03:I I would just add that uh facilitation is an art. Uh and I think uh our teams need to be taught uh that art. Uh, because uh to Mike's point, uh, if you've been on a uh on a uh highly functioning uh team, you know that you have uh because it does feel different, and it is a lot about the relationships and the facilitation of the requirements and the discussions to ensure that we have alignment across uh uh all uh verticals. Uh whereas uh low-performing teams, and I've been a part of both, you know, uh I've been part of teams that uh they want to cut every dime and nickel they can, and if they cut it, it goes back to the project. So you're told to cut, cut, cut, but yet if you want to add, there's no money for you because all you're doing is cutting, right? Whereas the high performing team will say, okay, let's cut here so that we can afford this over here because it makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:Agreed. And I think uh I mentioned that even in my last column with with uh HFM magazine there through Ashie that we talked quite a bit about that. We've we've got to break down that barrier. That's I would argue that's probably the one of the basic building blocks of our industry that we have yet to solve.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you know what I think is interesting is I'm listening to you guys talk about that. And Mike, I think you might have hit this when we talked back in January uh around like education and and educating, you know, both soft skill and technical. And you guys are speaking to obviously there's a technical component with project management and construction, but you're really you're focusing on those soft skills. And one of the things, you know, the political acumen, the facilitation, all the stuff you learn. One of the things that concerns me is that with the work from home and with so many folks still not having returned to the office, you kind of lose that informal like you can pick up a lot watching you guys operate, right? How do you answer a phone call? How do you interact in the office? How do you like all of that informal learning? We're not necessarily capturing it. And as we're hiring people who don't have the experience, we're kind of setting them out there alone. without that without that backbone to succeed not backbone without that infrastructure to succeed that kind of worries me a little bit that we've lost that mentorship informally.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah in fact we actually are probably growing the silos aren't we because we're isolating people electronically versus forcing some interaction and forcing some of those those uh soft skills that some you learn by seminars and education others you learn by bad experiences and feedback from peers and mentors and bosses right so yeah I think that's a good point so I think if we don't watch we're gonna just compound those it's easier to say no if I'm a thousand miles away on a zoom or a Teams call isn't it I can I can be real horsey if I really don't have to work with Dennis I can just say no not in my budget but you really have to work with that person over the same coffee over the same coffee bar over lunch sometime you've got to build those relationships.
SPEAKER_03:So it's really important one of the the the major benefits of belonging to an organization such as Ashie is the networking opportunities and it's the opportunity to build relationships across the industry with other folks and learning from them and what they do and having a resource that you can call uh if you have a question or or if you just need another opinion you know um it's easy for us to do that uh those of us that have been part of Ashie for a long time you know I can call Mike and ask him uh about a project uh that he's working on and compare it to mine vice versa.
SPEAKER_02:And you know some of those soft skills would probably be a good uh part of the curriculum for the core competencies as well. I think we focus a lot on the technical items but I think a lot of those soft skills are something that most organizations had to cut out those types of organizational development sessions from you know 15 or 20 years ago. But those are so important as you noticed Peter it's just easier to to basically build those barriers just by the lack of face-to-face negotiations and discussions.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah well and you know it's funny that that you say that because you know so before joining Kraft obviously I was doing the recruiting with Goslin Martin associates and and you know over the past five years um or so like we would work with organizations they would fire a director because they couldn't communicate they didn't have the soft skills you guys know this it didn't used to be that way right if you had maybe 80 technical and 20 soft skill now that balance it's at least 5050. So you know you need to know the technical because it's what you do. But you can't succeed and you do in fact people do get fired because they don't have that soft skill because you need to be effective right to affect change you need to be able to communicate and it's funny I hadn't thought of it in those terms Mike uh but we are losing people because they don't have that and yet we continue to cut that form of training.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah that's usually the first thing cut and on our organization we're as guilty as anybody and it's awful awful challenging and it's too easy to do everything with Zoom or Teams as well. So I think that's a probably a key point also that we really got to try to write to ship and that's probably another direction that ASHI could help us work through as well.
SPEAKER_03:Well a huge challenge that we have is communicating with the C-suite in general and and that is an area that that we we do want to focus on uh with Ashy.
SPEAKER_00:So I do I I you know I kind of want to jump into a little of that ashie stuff but before we do um Dennis you brought this up and it and it's interesting to me too um like the whole CMMS thing and it's it's funny uh our work is starting to grow in that area but like CMMS is real simple right okay you got a CMMS system I got my work order in camera so you can think of it kind of in this little silo but then you it is it's almost like this burgeoning area that goes into digital twinning that goes into AI that has all of these tentacles like this little CMMS system it's really the key to almost everything you do and like you know it but do you find it so I guess two things you know how can how can Ashy you know you talked about the standards right coming up with standards national standards that's a great idea there's nothing there. How would you go about doing that number one and then number two I guess when you guys and not to talk badly about you know about leadership but when you guys you know when you're trying to articulate to the C-suite the importance of the CMMS system and the importance of data and and everything it can potentially do for you if implemented properly does that messaging get through that's a lot I apologize but you brought it up no i'm I'm glad you asked it because uh the short answer is I'm gonna help you at the PDC conference in March.
SPEAKER_03:So come come visit me and and watch my presentation it's in Houston right it is in Houston in in March for sure yeah the the CMMS for us is is the source of uh truth uh and and it really begins with uh an asset inventory so it's asset management uh that that expands into work order uh management for sure uh and and the standards that we have defined um have to do with the nomenclature uh and and it has to do with with a simple formula of of risk for facilities uh maintenance and operation it is equivalent to the um probability that an asset or system will fail times the impact of that and so that there has to be some standardization around how how do you manage an asset how do you categorize an asset how how do you link it to a system so a parent-child type uh relationship uh what's the probability of failure well that that leads into a condition assessment uh risk category codes failure codes so now you're expanding your CMMS a little bit further uh related to the asset but the impact is just as important so what areas does your asset serve and and we have to be standard from from a regulatory perspective as well so if you're following FGI guidelines uh there are standard uh names for rooms that are associated with functions and then those names are associated with with regulatory requirements such as uh ashtray 170. So you know is it a procedure room is it a treatment room is it an operating room is it central is it sterile storage is it clean storage is it dirty et cetera so that helps us understand what the regulatory requirements are and again what the impact of failure of a of an asset or system uh would be in that area uh and then uh from the C-suite perspective why I'm excited about my presentation of PDC is I'm going to compare the hospital to the human body and I'm going to tell you that the hospital is our patient and we need an electronic medical record which is our CMMS and if you dive deep into electronic medical records and Mr. Atten has had some experience in transitioning to a new system you'll see that a lot of resources in our facility are tied to that especially in IT. So if we can start doing some sort of metaphors and comparisons to that, I'm hoping we can get a little bit more traction for the support. And the only way we can get into AI or digital twins is with a good foundation of data.
SPEAKER_02:So we have to have a good solid foundation of data uh and and our uh leaders are looking at the same thing they're they're looking at how do we harness AI to serve our patient population we're looking at how do we harness AI to serve our patient which is the build that's quite a mouthful there Dennis yeah I like that I like it I guess my real challenge though is once I get this new system all set up Dennis they uh sell it to somebody else or they stop supporting that database I've already invested two or three million dollars and then it all changes again. And by the way it's not compatible with the new version of whatever software backbone it's on. So I guess I'm a little bit of a doubting Thomas that the software industry will help us solve its own problems. But it truly is something that's necessary. I think I would argue that we also need a standardized design drawings that all use the same acronyms and nomenclature, uh the same condition assessments. You know, we'll get a consultant in who use their own version of a condition assessment acronym. And so before long I've got three different databases that all call an air handler or a chiller or a boiler or something different. So it's even more difficult to sort by asset class, especially well you're experiencing this now Dennis as your system has grown you now have 70 hospitals and you were much smaller the same with us as we acquire somebody is you know you're taking a Ford and a Chevy and a Toyota and you're trying to make them all speak the same language. So I think our industry to be again a little bit negative on that has yet to solve those national standards like you talked and from what I've known most of those packages are still pretty much proprietary. So I think that's kind of an impediment to that success that we that we truly do need.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think it's achievable maybe not now but down the road to come to a a national standardization it it would make life much simpler in so many ways. Is this pot is that possible?
SPEAKER_03:Not to the extent we'd like to see it uh you know I again we we are all very unique and and our maintenance uh strategies and processes and policies are are very unique as well. So again we're we're looking at just kind of that basic uh foundation that you can build on and and again look look at software I mean software has basic principles associated with it but there's always customizations that you can do with your software applications as well.
SPEAKER_00:If you like this video please like and subscribe to the network and more importantly share it with your colleagues in the healthcare industry. Together we can solve the aging crisis that's impacting all of us so Mike as as president as former president as president now anything that surprised you over your term?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I think I I did not expect uh you know how challenging it was to learn how to maneuver within a large organization such as ASHI and AHA you know and still get it all done with basically you've got 11 months by the time you come on board and then you're winding down. So I think just learning how to do that since especially since I'm a doer in my organization and I get things done and my daily job is to maneuver through the bureaucracies and I think my biggest challenge was trying to work through and understand how ashy what made it tick. And about time you learn what makes it tick, it's time to hand it off to Dennis or the next person as well. So I think that's the one thing I've probably uh felt the most behind the scenes on myself.
SPEAKER_00:That's really interesting. You know you think you know you're uh you're a vice president facilities engineering PDC a a big you know a massive hospital uh system in Houston and it's funny when you put it in those terms like you know how to play that game at Memorial Herman right you've you've you've right you've been around the block so you know who to go to but you you step into Ashley and I guess that's kind of why I want to do this uh between the two of you is like how do you affect change when you're dealing with those you guys come and go but yet the Ashy group and this isn't meant as a criticism at all they work there you guys come in and then you depart and somebody else comes in and so that's one of the challenges I guess that you have to deal with.
SPEAKER_02:It's probably good and bad I would say to make sure that the the trajectory of the organization doesn't change that rapidly but right yep. Unfortunately like like a lot of the criticisms about some of our you know even the senators argue about everything and get nothing done I think it's got both good and bad to it. So I think learning that my advice for Dennis going forward is you know really put down those four or five goals that you want to accomplish and try to hammer those home and and work on effecting that change. And that's why I spent most of my time probably just on those back to the basics lower tech the blocking and tackling that we need in our industry which leads to the next item and I think looking back I had some success on steering the ship in that direction but I was probably looking for more dramatic change than I could ever affect on an organization of this size.
SPEAKER_00:Do you guys think that is is blocking and tackling kind of the basics does that message resonate not in just with Ash but does that resonate today today or are people minimizing the blocking and tackling that's necessary in in in favor of kind of the sexy things that are out there AI, digital tool kind of the technologies I think one of our CFOs used to call it the new bright shiny when we talked about everybody every CEO wants their own nice bright shiny hospital versus taking care of what they had.
SPEAKER_02:So I think that's very prevalent especially in the construction business everybody wants the billion dollar shiny object versus taking care of the old one but you know the basics that we do similar to the operations and maintenance as well is what I would suggest.
SPEAKER_00:So how closely like behind the scenes do you um you know do you guys work together to kind of align priorities and and make sure that you're pushing together for the greater good. Does does that happen and and how do you do that?
SPEAKER_02:I think a lot of uh just basically off you know off focus comments and things like that and email texting telephone call once in a while on that stuff and I think Dennis and I both I know I tried to work quite a bit on the strategic plan and we were going down a lot of rabbit trails of trying to solve the world's social problems. And you know that really wasn't what Ashie is designed to do. So I think we were pretty effective in trying to get us focused on some tangible future items versus you know we're not here to solve world peace we're not here to solve the social ills we're healthcare facilities management and PDC people and how do we get the strategic plan focused back on that so Dennis I think we've had quite a bit of success in that it not without a lot of pain and discussions though I would suggest across the advisory board.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah I uh I chose to run for president uh because Mike got elected because I had worked with him in in Texas before and I knew we would have a good relationship moving forward. And I also knew the the momentum of of Ashe I I knew that uh Skanda was in the window of uh creating or our uh re-evaluating our strategic plan I knew Mike would be uh in the window of of finalizing and executing the plan and and then I would have the opportunity of of carrying that forward and so it it it took a lot to to get there it it kind of is like herding cats um because you have a a board of of many different uh individuals who who have uh you know we're we're all uh products of our own experiences and and uh you you can't come to the board without bringing your experience I mean that's how you got elected there yeah and so uh to Mike's point you know there's a lot of different uh areas that that different people want to focus on and so collectively you know because we're we're pretty grounded in in the basics we're we're able to at least bring people back to um in our opinion what the basics are and and the core competencies uh and and start driving home uh those objectives uh and and then you've got uh you got to know that the ASHI staff the majority of them are are actually still fairly new to their positions uh there there's been a lot of turnover in the past uh five to seven years in ASHI and and probably only one ASHI member was actually in a facility management uh position uh and so they're they rely heavily on the advisory board to kind of tell them you know what the industry is and and what challenges we're facing and so again it it's up to um you know the president elect uh the president and and the immediate past president to kind of facilitate those discussions and and help everybody focus on you know what what those uh what those core competencies are good point helps set the vector of where the organization has been and where we want it to go to try to impart some of that influence good point about the lack of experience you're right at the staff level as well well you know it's interesting because you you're you on the advisory board like you you gentlemen and the people on the advisory board like you're used to having control some control right you're used to you're used to taking charge i mean you you have egos you have to have an ego to do it well you but then you go to these boards and everybody's kind of like you right not but but you're used to having that control you're used to running a hospital you're used to running a department you're used to telling people to do things and listening and collaborating but it's a whole group of that so it's got to be pretty difficult. It's it's not just our personal experiences in the workforce honestly Pete it's our experiences within the uh state affiliated chapters where we're typically board members of our state chapters we become presidents of our state chapters and we do have full uh authority to to make things happen it is different being an advisory board versus being an actual board of directors and that is a hard transition for some people that join and that is a challenge and so in January um I'll be meeting with the the new board members and and Mike did it this past January um and and part of our discussion is hey this is not like your state affiliated board this is a little different. Let me go ahead and give you some history so that we don't have to uh have those discussions again.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good point. It's it's so totally different from the large state organizations especially those that are more successful like the ones that Dennis and I both came from where you've got full governance and full profit and loss and visibility and set to program. It's a uh in some regard I guess there's a lot more autonomy and it's just uh probably 180 degrees different from the advisory board function and that's challenging to get used to especially if you're a take charge kind of person like we all are that's why we're there.
SPEAKER_00:Right, right right it's why you're good at what you do. Yeah I was thinking as you were talking like do you think that um it's it's an interesting dance I guess right you got the national level you got Ashie but you guys were talking about kind of the local chapters you know I was just down at the FIA uh conference in November I've been to TAF them I was you I've been to enough of them like the chapters the local chapters do it really well I mean I think they've really kind of advanced the education is there the the vendors are there I I think there's a huge uptick to to in on the local level and it's sometimes easier for people just to get to the local as opposed to the national how do you like how do you balance that um you you because you need the state chapters because that's where most people go but then you also have the national level I don't know if that's an actual question but how do you balance those competing needs?
SPEAKER_03:It's definitely been a a focus for us and and I'll let Mike speak to it more pointly, but uh we we do need to ensure that we have good relationships between ASHI and the state chapters, because to your point, uh most of the people will have a better opportunity to uh to attend a state chapter. Uh and the state chapters do have the opportunity to bring in ASCII type training and uh uh presentations uh as well. And and so we we definitely want to uh ensure that that's a strong relationship.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I think that's probably one of the other key points is how do we take ASHI to the chapters versus the chapters to ASHI given the financial constraints, especially that was evident the year before last when it was in uh Anaheim, California, a fabulous venue, but expensive and difficult for a lot of people to travel to. So you know, Ashley's got some great what I call boot camp programs or basic education. They're typically in Chicago or Indianapolis or uh Nashville, and we've talked quite a bit at the advisory board level about how do we get that out to where the major medical centers are and have Ashley reach the people versus having to have the travel expenses and fill up our future pipeline that way, though. You know, are the days of always having a big annual conference like the Healthcare Facilities Innovation Conference, is that always going to be with us? Or is that ultimately gonna become too expensive? And as as you mentioned, Pete, as I've seen that myself as I traveled around, there's a lot of great content and the same basic speakers at a lot of the state chapters. And I know Ashie is starting to put together some of the regional conferences as well. They've for the first time this year, they've had, I think, three of those this year. But what is the future of the organization and how do we keep that brand strong and push it out for the next generation? Especially those that live on this versus you know, live on your iPhone versus actually that's how they get their education these days. So we're at those crossroads.
SPEAKER_00:No, it's true. I mean, there's big like there's big questions out there. The the nature of how people get information, how they learn. Listen, I love face-to-face. Like I love going to the innovation conference because I I love to see people, you know, it's it's an opportunity just to connect, but you know, not everybody feels that way these days. So how do you evolve and change and still say stay relevant?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, there's there's a lot of opportunities uh for ASHI that we are focused on and do align with our strategic vision. Uh, one is revamping our website, uh, getting all the uh tools uh aligned, make it easier to navigate and get uh the resources that you need. Uh there is uh a focus on uh virtual type uh training opportunities uh that we can put together so that people don't have to go to a conference. And then as Mike mentioned, we are looking at uh regional uh conferences as well. But I will tell you, Pete, one of the biggest challenges that I've seen, and I've seen it at the state level as well, is how do we get the frontline worker to a conference where where they would benefit from maybe some hands-on training and networking? Uh that's been a challenge, even at the state level.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think that's going to continue to be a challenge as uh finances get tighter. And hence my comment is how do we get Ashie out to where the big concentrations of hospitals are? And you know, there's probably a dozen major regions in the US that has those concentrations that we can take ASHI out there and make it affordable and make it more, you know, day sessions versus having to spend three or four days at a conference. So I think that's an excellent point Dennis brings up about that's how we grow the pipeline for that next generation, let's face it.
SPEAKER_03:I think uh Pete, just just to give an example, uh, it was in uh Arizona, and I can't remember which organization, because I believe they do have a couple affiliated uh chapters there, uh, but they uh sent uh uh a shuttle out to the local hospitals to pick up uh some of the technicians and bring them uh to the conference. And and I think they were only staying for maybe half a day, right? So just bring them in for a couple concentrated uh sessions and then and then take them back to the hospital. But it's things like that that that uh first off we we need to know uh that are happening. We need to know lessons learned, and then we we need to see if there's um a way that we can do that from a regional perspective.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's funny you mentioned that, Dennis. I was talking, I think it was Joe Taylor from Kentucky, and I think he was telling me that the Kentucky engineers did that, right? That they had a bus from Louisville. That was it to the annual, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they they said who who wants a ride? We're we're gonna take a bus and you can ride with us.
SPEAKER_02:What a novel concept that both Grow Ashe and the state chapter, right? And they had two or three hours worth of face-to-face time on a on a nice bus as well, and they solve some transportation problems, so they reduce costs. So I think we really need to be that's truly what I would suggest is both back to the basics and innovative is how do we get our pipeline, those at Dennis's, you know, station and career and my as well. We can always get to the conferences and the education. How do we get those that future manager or that team leader there that ultimately will become the chapter leaders and grow into even the executive ranks as well?
SPEAKER_00:Well, as you guys were talking about that, you know, I was thinking like bringing Ashie to the chapters. I I like that distinction there. And talking about the regional events, like we know that we have a problem bringing folks in, like those critical access hospitals that are in the middle of nowhere, those folks cannot get away. And and a lot of the times it it's not right, but they're not necessarily they feel like they're forgotten, right? They're kind of left left behind. And that might be a way, the regionalization to to hopefully allow them to get some type of an education, because it's almost impossible for people in those hospitals to get away because they're wearing thousands of hats.
SPEAKER_03:Right. We have to try every uh thing that we can. And and the other thing we're looking at is the fact that we are aligned with the American Hospital Association. We're a professional membership group, and they do have a conference for rural hospitals. And to your point, at a rural hospital, you wear multiple hats. So the administrator could also be the facility manager at a at a facility like that. So we're hoping to get opportunities in front of these groups to share uh the fact that we do have resources available. Uh, and and maybe uh those are opportunities for the virtual training, uh, because to your point, the the the guy that's doing 50 different things is probably not gonna be able to leave the hospital.
SPEAKER_00:No, I remember you we doing a recruitment for Catholic Health initiatives before you know they became common spirit, and they had three critical access hospitals up in North Dakota that were kind of on a triangle, and one was and just talking to those folks about the challenges of running it, you know. But you're you're running to the Home Depot, right? If you have to go to Home Depot, that's where you're going. And it's just it's different than any other experience. So we can't forget them. This hour is really um flown by. Um, but uh but I want to stay to our time. When you guys think about the next decade, and you you've kind of you've touched on a lot. Um where do you see, you know, where do you see the profession going? Now a decade's probably too far because a lot can change, but where do you see this profession heading?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think uh AI is something we have to embrace. Uh we just have to know that that uh the industry as a whole is is talking about it, you know, healthcare as a whole, how do we embrace AI? How do we embrace robotics? How do we streamline operations? How do we streamline cost? Uh these are all focuses, and and we just need to be in front of it and not behind it. Uh, and I do see that as a huge change. Uh, one of our biggest uh challenges is the fact that our folks that have the institutional knowledge are of retirement age, yeah, and the new generation is is not looking to start a career in healthcare facilities management. And and so how how do we get the word out that this is a career worth doing? Uh, how do we educate those folks when we do attract them? And how do we we make it attractive to them? And and if this new generation is attached to their phone, if they're attached to short video clips, then then how do we embrace that and make it meaningful for them?
SPEAKER_02:I guess I would add to that, but we also have to make sure that we're getting rid of the zombies and killing off the sallies that we learned about at the HICFA this year. If we just hardwire those and code those and use AI to, you know, uh make it easier to find bad best practices, then is that really going to help our industry? So I think we need a parallel pack to quickly break down those silos with PDC and make sure it is a holistic approach to the life of the facility. You know, get rid of the sallies, the zombies, the things that we've done every day that provide zero value and really work from an advocacy point of view and get rid of some of those regulations and use the power of ASHI and the AHA to really influence some of those.
SPEAKER_03:So, with that said, uh a huge impact that ASHI can make is to advocate uh CMS to adopt a more recent standard. You know, we're still under the 2012 Life Safety Code, um, and and there have been a lot of changes, and and uh a huge value of ASHI is not just the networking, but it's the advocacy, and that's why we need to support ASHI. And we hope that ASHI is advocating for exactly what what Mike is saying. How do we reduce the regulatory burden so that we can reduce the cost of healthcare? And how do we motivate uh CMS to adopt a standard that that would give us a little bit more leniency in that area and be able to focus on on the areas that need our attention?
SPEAKER_02:I'd really hate to invest in hardwire and a commuterized maintenance management system or digital twin that's codifying all the zombies that we've done in the past life. We surely should adopt technology looking forward and really evidence-based design, failure mode analysis. Ashley's done a lot of work on it. It really hasn't been universally adopted, the whole failure mode analysis and uh you know the things that Day's working on and some of the folks at Kaiser as well to really work on the the why. I would call that the digital why. If you know, if it's statistically not improving outcomes, then why are we dealing with it still? And that's to me is what the biggest focus of advocacy is getting rid of items, not just coming up with new items.
SPEAKER_00:I thought her presentation, and if I had known you were going to bring her up, I would have checked on her name. I can't recall the keynote, but it was fantastic.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, Diane Candler, I think her name was.
SPEAKER_00:And that was it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I was so impressed with the message, was so spot on and really parallel with what I was doing is let's try to drive some of these items that are insane, like the everyday check exit lights once a month. I think Ashie has got a lot of that work and CMS is working on it, but that's still not totally out of the code. There's a lot of good work towards that. But there's I can think of a dozen things just like that that waste time and cost money with zero outcomes to improve safety or the bottom line. And yeah, her message was so spot on with those items. That's why I spent a lot of time pondering that. And really, we should spend another hour just talking about those zombies and just kind of rapid fire them out there, it would be kind of a good session in the future.
SPEAKER_00:Actually, I should bring her on. We could do it with her a little bit. She would be great. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:That would be great.
SPEAKER_00:Actually, I'm doing okay. Can I ask you one last thing? I know you got to go, you probably have meetings. How far along do you gentlemen think we are? And you don't have to go into a lot of detail, but kind of on that AI technology journey that you've been talking about. Where are we in the cycle of AI in healthcare? Are we just just at the tip, five, 10%? Like where are we on that journey? Because you're right, Dennis. I mean, you're hearing the beginning of the year, we heard AI, but now it's seemingly everywhere. Where are we on the journey?
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think we're we're trying to establish standards. Uh, you know, uh HIPAA is is very uh important to us. So how do you uh incorporate AI uh without sharing uh information that you shouldn't? Uh we we've even had examples and presentations that we've done and seen, you know, uh you don't want uh floor plans of your facility floating out there, you know. So how do we protect uh the database that uh is being searched uh from AI? Um how do we ensure that that's good quality data? Uh and I'm sure that's what our healthcare uh leaders are are thinking about as well. Uh but I would tell you, uh we're we're definitely behind the curve, uh especially in facilities, because Pete, we still have facilities out there that don't even have a good asset inventory that are not using a CMMS system, that don't have standardized nomenclature. And these are the basics, and we've got to really get everybody to that foundational level so that we can start building upon it and and being able to uh ensure, again, that decisions are made on good quality data.
SPEAKER_02:I guess I would suggest that we're probably going to be on the shirt tails, though, of the electronic medical record and as that evolves and the AI technology and the clinical side, but that's actually a good thing. You know, we can learn from them. And if we all if one day we did share a common platform, wouldn't that be so fabulous? I know we're still trying to modernize. We did Epic last year, and now we're next as the whole, you know, overall uh AI and basically uh optimization of the whole of the whole work process flow here at Memorial Herman, like a lot of facilities are, but that's yet another software platform. So I think one of these days we will get there, but I think it's evolving much more quickly than our bricks and mortars uh functions have been in the past.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely, absolutely. Well, my thanks to Michael Hatton, 2025 Ashie President, Vice President, Memorial Herman, Dennis Ford, 2026 Ashy President, Advocate Health, Corporate Facilities Management. I got it right, advocate health. So Dennis, Mike, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. Great discussion. We'll come back. Uh, if you guys are willing, I'll reach out to Diana. That would be a great episode of getting rid of the zombies for health care. Talk about saving time, right?
SPEAKER_02:Wow, and bottom line, and it's so appropriate to what we do every day, the zombies. So thank you, Pete, for putting this together and for what you do. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:My pleasure.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, gentlemen. Dennis, good luck as I hand off the baton as well.
SPEAKER_03:Well, thank you, Mike. You left me with a good foundation, buddy.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, guys. Bye-bye. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you for watching the Healthcare Facilities Network. We will be back with a future episode. Have a great day. If you want to be a guest on a future episode of the Healthcare Facilities Network, go to healthcarefacilities network.com and let us know who you are and what you want to talk about because together we can solve this critical aging issue.