Join us as we sit down with Certified Divorce Transition Coach, Mardi Winder-Adams , to discuss the benefits of partnering with a divorce coach alongside your legal team when navigating a contentious separation. In this interview, Mardi answers the following questions:
• Why Is Divorce Coaching Needed, and Who Does it Best Serve?
• Are There Common Situations that Warrant a Divorce Coach?
• What’s Involved in Divorce Transition Coaching?
• Is There a Best Time To Start Working With A Divorce Transition Coach?
• What Are the Benefits A Divorce Transition Coach Can Provide?
• Can Using a Divorce Transition Coach Help Reduce The Cost Of Divorce?
• …and much more!
If you would like to speak with one of our attorneys, please call our office at (503) 227-0200, or visit our website at https://www.pacificcascadelegal.com.
If you're interested in getting in touch with Mardi, you can do so by visiting her website at https://www.divorcecoach4women.com/
Disclaimer: Nothing in this communication is intended to provide legal advice nor does it constitute a client-attorney relationship, therefore you should not interpret the contents as such.
Join us as we sit down with Certified Divorce Transition Coach, Mardi Winder-Adams , to discuss the benefits of partnering with a divorce coach alongside your legal team when navigating a contentious separation. In this interview, Mardi answers the following questions:
• Why Is Divorce Coaching Needed, and Who Does it Best Serve?
• Are There Common Situations that Warrant a Divorce Coach?
• What’s Involved in Divorce Transition Coaching?
• Is There a Best Time To Start Working With A Divorce Transition Coach?
• What Are the Benefits A Divorce Transition Coach Can Provide?
• Can Using a Divorce Transition Coach Help Reduce The Cost Of Divorce?
• …and much more!
If you would like to speak with one of our attorneys, please call our office at (503) 227-0200, or visit our website at https://www.pacificcascadelegal.com.
If you're interested in getting in touch with Mardi, you can do so by visiting her website at https://www.divorcecoach4women.com/
Disclaimer: Nothing in this communication is intended to provide legal advice nor does it constitute a client-attorney relationship, therefore you should not interpret the contents as such.
Intro:
Welcome to Modern Family Matters, a podcast devoted to exploring family law topics that matter most to you. Covering a wide range of legal, personal, and family law matters, with expert analysis from skilled attorneys and professional guests, we hope that our podcast provides answers, clarity, and guidance towards a better tomorrow for you and your family. Here's your host, Steve Altishin.
Steve Altishin
Hi, everyone. Welcome to our Facebook Live broadcast. I'm Steve Altishin, Director of Client Partnerships here at Pacific Cascade Legal. And today we're here with divorce coach Mardi Winder Adams to discuss the benefits of partnering with a divorce coach alongside your legal team when navigating a contentious divorce. Okay, that was a bit of a mouthful. Mardi, how you doing today?
Mardi Winder-Adams
I'm doing fine. Steve, thank you so much.
Steve Altishin
Well, before we start, could you just kind of talk to us a little bit about who the heck you are and how you got to be what you got to be?
Mardi Winder-Adams
It's a long convoluted story. So I'm going to give you the short version here. I have always kind of had a fascination with conflict, interpersonal relationships, how people can navigate difficult situations. So started out as a teacher, and then quickly moved into behavior consulting, and I got to work with families who are in conflict with school systems. And then I got to work with family units, kids that were having problems because of situations and families divorce was a big one, obviously, for children that already had struggles with behavioral issues. So fast forward a few years, friend of mine, went through a divorce and said, Hey, why don't you become a divorce mediator, you really helped me out. So I did that. Love that work. And then, as we were just speaking of I started doing parenting, coordination, parenting facilitation, then I decided to become an executive and leadership coach. So I went through the training to do that. And the interesting thing I found out is so many of the people and specifically the women, executives, entrepreneurs, business professionals I was working with, were struggling, when things outside of work were the biggest impact in their life, and divorce was the big one. So that led me into the fascinating world of divorce coaching, I did my training in that and for since about 2018. Now I have been providing divorce coaching for specifically high achieving executive entrepreneurs, professional women going through the divorce process.
Steve Altishin
I love it. This is great. It's funny, you talk about the impact, because that kind of leads into my first question before we even start talking about, you know, what divorce coaching is. It's, you know, the difficulties that people have in divorce, and the impact that divorce has on them. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Mardi Winder-Adams
Yeah. And that's I think, and I've got a full disclosure, I went through a divorce myself when I was in my 30s. I waited to marry thought I'd done everything right and did for the first few years, and then things kind of fell apart. And I had never actually never been through a legal process. I've never had to hire an attorney. I felt pretty competent as a professional. And in the divorce, just everything. I said, it just became my worst nightmare. I thought divorce was going to be a legal process to growing up saying, okay, you know, this business relationship we set up isn't working. So let's divide, separate split. We didn't have kids, but that didn't matter. They're the conflict, the stress, the pressure, the the overwhelm with the decisions, even how to hire an attorney. Do I heard the one that my friend used that said, yeah, he, you know, my attorney went after him, and I got everything I wanted? Or do I hire an attorney that says, let's work this out and mediation and lower the conflict? Like how do I know what, what works for me? And I think the one that a lot of women don't recognize is that their divorce is not just I'm really happy I Pacific percent of women file for divorce, right? That's it's not that men overwhelmingly file for divorce anymore. It's women. So why do we file for divorce and then feel so horrible afterwards and deal with all this emotional baggage? And the answer is because we're human beings. And because when we got married, we had a dream at that time, that this was going to be our life. We were already planning our golden days on the beach in Maui are so in our retirement, and now all of a sudden, that dream has come crashing down whether we wanted it to crash or not, it's crashed. And so I think that there's all that emotional stuff. And I also think another thing that women in professional roles have to deal with is there still is a double edged or double perspective on men going through divorce and women going through divorce. I've been I've been in a in a cafeteria at a large company. And I've heard conversations where somebody will, you know, make a kind of almost a joke about a man going through divorce and say, and I'm not trying to be sexist here, but I'm just giving an example and say, you know, boy, he's trading up for a younger model. And then you hear a fee a woman In an executive role going through a divorce, and you hear the back Chatter is, well, how can she run a company if she can't even keep her marriage together? And I'm not saying that happens all the time. But those are the kinds of comments. I think that a lot of times women in professional roles do face when they're going through a divorce.
Steve Altishin
I agree. It's, you know, the shame is all thrown on the woman a lot of times, you know, it makes no sense. But yeah. I have a question. Say I come into you, or someone comes in to you, what are some of the the immediate issues that they're sort of having when they come in? Is it, you know, have they already decided? Or should they decide? Or how do they decide? Or what is kind of the first thing you start hearing from them?
Mardi Winder-Adams
Steve, honestly, I think the first thing is like, holy crap, how did I get here? And how do I get out like that? You know, and sometimes it's not that politely said like that. But a lot of it, a lot of the people that I get, and I only work with women, so a lot of the women that I get are, they're distraught, they don't know where to go, or they don't know what to do next. They're trying to and I hear this a lot. They're trying to do this and be fair. You know, they don't, they don't want to be seen as being the bad person. But they also want to stand up and get there get what they need out of the divorce. They are worried about their financial future, they're worried about their children, they're worried about how are they going to maintain this? How are they going to now be almost like a single parent, even if the other parent wants to be involved? How are they going to take care of themselves, their kids, all this new stuff as a single person no longer in a marriage. And I think it's just complete overwhelm, and nobody to share it with because you don't want to go to the office and talk to your co workers and say, I'm falling apart. Sometimes your family is not the person, the people that you want to share this information with, depending on the relationship, and it's just really hard to talk about it. So who do you even find to talk about it, I think is one of the big things they're worried about.
Steve Altishin
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that makes sense. So let's start talking about divorce coaching. You know, my first thing is, you know, what is it? There's divorce therapy I know, there's divorce legal counseling. I know there's a lot of stuff. But divorce coach, I always go back to kind of like, you know, the basketball team. Is it like that? I mean, if so, I need a new divorce court. But that's our basketball team.
Mardi Winder-Adams
And that's a very valid question. Because I think there are a ton of divorce professionals, and depending on the situation, people can use more than one as a matter of fact, you're typically going to at least, at the very minimum, you're going to have an attorney, hopefully, although people can do pro se divorces, obviously, but have a have an attorney. The divorce coach, divorce coaching is a place where you can go to have confidential, one on one support with me, it's one on one support, to contemplate your options, explore the possibilities, come up with ideas, get the emotional side of the divorce under control. Because as attorneys talk to me about all the time, I'm having trouble talking to my client, because she is so emotional. I'm not sure she's understanding what I'm saying. So divorce coaching is really situational. It's what the client needs, when they come in, do they need to focus on how to prepare for mediation? Do they need to focus on you know, making sure that the good is got a good self care routine, if you're not taking care of yourself, you can't take care of your kids, you can't make good decisions, you can't be productive in your workplace. And you certainly can't make long term decisions. And the other thing, I think it's interesting about divorce coaching, at least the way that I do it is I start with talking to talking to my women and saying Where do you want to be six months from now? Where do you want to be a year from now? Where do you want to be five years from now? Because if you don't know what your goals are, how can you make decisions about your financial future today, which you're going to have to in the next few months, if you don't even know where that where your destination is? So really getting people to take a holistic look at life is not the end divorce is not the end of your life. It's a transition. It's a pivot point. It's a reset button, and and how can you create the life that you want moving forward? Now that includes what your relationship going to look like with your ex partner? It doesn't have to be gloom and doom and we can't stand seeing each other. Lots of people have great relationships after marriage, they have to work at it till. But if you've got kids, it's worth it's worth the effort I
Steve Altishin
think I really liked hear you talk about looking at a divorce the way you do. Oh, it's funny, we just did a podcast on what we call deconstructing a divorce case, in which the very first thing you look at is, you know, what, what do you want to do? Yeah. And, and because a lot of times you go into an attorney to give you these options, here's an option here for the house, here's an option for the retirement, here's an option for you know, support, here's an option for where you're going to how you're going to parent, you know, start picking. And I imagine you can help with that, when they come to you say, you know, I got all these different things, how do I put them into a single, you know, idea? Yeah, and
Mardi Winder-Adams
as the divorce coach, I don't give any kind of advice. And so all I do is just in coaching, we call it holding space or holding up a mirror, really saying to the really saying to the client, okay, if that's the option is the attorney has recommended you want the house? Let's let's think about that. Where do you want to be five years from now, if you don't want to own the house, if you want to be traveling the world or living in a condo where you don't have to deal with yard work or whatever? Is it worthwhile making the house, you know, a battleground in the divorce? Or would it be better off, if you know, you don't want it anyhow. And they want it, hey, that could be a really good strategy, right? Let's just say, I know you want the house, here it is, let's talk about how I'm gonna get, you know, fair and equitable distribution, based on your getting the house. So I think all of that stuff comes into play. But I do want to stress that as the divorce coach, unlike the attorneys, I'm not the one that's kind of giving the parameters, I'm just helping people explore what what those outcomes might be, and whether they really work for them.
Steve Altishin
That that's the little known kind of thing is by doing that, you save them attorney fees. Because the attorneys, if they have to do that, which they can really well, but they they they charge a lot for that when that's not where their real prime factor is. It's on the legal stuff. It's. So it's helpful.
Mardi Winder-Adams
Well, and I think, you know, having people who aren't as emotionally invested, having that opportunity to talk it through with a neutral person like myself, and then go to the attorney and kind of have a list of pros and cons. I think that that helps everybody because I think it's also helps the attorney because it's clear where the client is coming from, and why they're making certain requests if they can articulate that rather than just getting really emotional, and just having a real struggle with even getting that information out.
Steve Altishin
Yeah, yeah. And talking about attorneys that kind of leads to you know, what's, if you had your druthers when someone walks in what would be the best time for them to have come to you to start the divorce before they saw their attorney before they got wars? You know, after their divorce is final? I mean, you know, where's the good spot?
Mardi Winder-Adams
I think the good spot is before I've worked with some people who come to me who are on the I call it on the fence about the divorce, they're not really sure if they should, or they shouldn't, especially over this last few years with COVID, where couples have been, you know, hunkered down in in place, working on top of each other literally in small spaces, not being able to go out not to being able to have other social interactions. I think divorces that were or I'm sorry, marriages that were strong, got stronger marriages that had cracks got chasms during COVID. With with you know, just just that forced proximity, really irritated some people. But that doesn't mean that now that things aren't changing, maybe do you want to work on it? Would family therapy be a good idea or couples therapy be a good idea? Or a trial separation? So sometimes, definitely, people come on that in that question mark of should I or shouldn't I? Again, I don't tell them one way or the other. But just help them to explore what would it be like? What's the what is the divorce process? If you take this step? A lot of people think divorce is a three month process. And I'm kind of saying no, no, no, you really need to rethink that. Especially if you know, you think the other person doesn't want to go through the divorce. It could be years to get a divorce, if you're, you know, in those high contested high asset kind of cases. So talking about that, in the in helping people get an attorney. Again, I don't recommend a specific attorney. But as you know, there's all different styles of attorneys and lots of people are really intimidated going into an attorney's office and they don't take the opportunity to maybe talk to two or three or four different attorneys. They just kind of go into one attorney and go okay, this is my this is my guy. Now, this is the first one I want to work with. And that may be the person you work with. But I still think it's worthwhile to check out a couple of other people, maybe a collaborative law professional, maybe somebody who markets themselves as a more aggressive attorney, maybe somebody who, you know, is more focused on mediated settlements, but maybe not through Collaborative Law process. So really having the opportunity to consider those options. Because if if a person picks an attorney that they know, like, and trust, I think it goes a lot smoother for everybody, than if the client is doubting what the attorney is telling them. And then you change attorneys midstream, that's never a good idea.
Steve Altishin
It sounds like you're the you know, you provide a lot of benefits that sometimes slip through the cracks. And the one I could think of is, as we're just sort of talking is, is a lot of a lot of clients start to second guess their decisions. And but who, you know who to talk to about that? So can you kind of talk about that in some of the end goals, some of the benefits that you you want to see occur for your client?
Mardi Winder-Adams
Yeah, thanks, dude. That's, that's a, that's a broad question. So I'm gonna give you a broad, like clients to walk out of the divorce whenever that is, if it's six months from now, if it's a mediated settlement, if it goes to court, you know, trial, whatever, whatever has to happen. But what I want them to do is I want them to walk out and say, I have the time to consider my options, I made the best decisions with the information I had at the time, because obviously, things can change, but and then they know that they got the best out of their divorce that they possibly could and on their own terms. I think sometimes after the divorce, people look at other people's divorces and go, Well, why did they get that? And I got this, and how did this happen. And I think if you're comfortable in the decisions, you make you trust your legal adviser, your attorney, you trust your CPA, you trust the professionals that are involved, you can walk out of there and go, I didn't get everything I want, but I got everything I needed. And I think that's that, for me is the key, I want people to walk out a divorce, and not have it destroy the rest of their life. I don't want them to, I don't, I would love to make it so that people aren't going to stay in conflict. And I think sometimes even one person changing how they're responding in a situation, even if both people don't have coaches, if one person learn some conflict resolution skills, or some more effective communication, it's not only going to help them with that relationship, if there's co parenting going on, but it's going to help them in their next relationship. So I guess that's my goal is for people to come out of the divorce, feeling at least as good as they did when they went into it, if that makes any sense. So they feel destroyed and you know, beaten down, just run over by the system.
Steve Altishin
That is, it's, you know, see a lot of clients come out the other end. And in a lot of cases, the the the unhappy clients tend to be quite busy. Who didn't feel like they understood what was going on. And and someone like you is there to do that. And that's, that's pretty cool. So are you but you're not a one time. thing? Is it? It's like I come in, I see you for an hour, and then I'm gone. Are you more? I know you talk about the term transition coach, I mean, are you there, you know, through the transition.
Mardi Winder-Adams
I am. So my the and I'm going to put this out there. There's all different kinds of divorce coaches. So some do hourly sessions, some do just like one time sessions to help you prepare for mediation or you know, a half day or something. My program is a six month program. So what it is, is it's six months of coaching where you have scheduled sessions throughout the month. And then I like to call myself a concierge divorce coach. So you I'm available from you know, regular typical business hours and on weekends, to my clients by text or phone. Or if we need to throw in a zoom session, we hop on a zoom session and talk through things. And it's it's a package deal. So it's not ala carte, so you get which pet to end and you can access those services. So I get a lot of calls Friday afternoons and Monday mornings during child, you know, during the exchanges of the kids where people are like, What do I do now? This is what's happened? How do I handle this? And again, I don't ever tell people we just talk them through it. But I don't know if those one off sessions are is helpful from a long term perspective, but they certainly you know, can help if you've got one specific issue but I don't tend to use those. I tend to do the longer term support So, six months, and I have lots of people that reopen and do it for a full year, depending on how their how their divorce is progressing and where they think they are and what they need.
Steve Altishin
Well, there's so many different things going on. I mean, that makes complete sense. There's, like, you know, there's there's people getting, you know, custody, there's people getting parenting time, there's people getting, you know, property, there's people getting support, I mean, there's a lot and you're, you work on all of those with them, I take, I mean, not just here share, you know, you get the house and you get this or that kind of stuff. Yeah, and
Mardi Winder-Adams
the other thing that I think is really important is, a lot of people assume that going through a second or third marriage, and divorce is going to be much easier, because you've been through it once. I find that's rarely the case. If anything, things tend to ratchet up. You know, especially if the, you know, if there's his hers and their kids, those kind of co parenting arrangements, even during the separation and before the temporary order, how do you how do you manage that? Like, you know, some people are like, Well, I'm not letting that other person take my kids, because they may just take off with them, and they start kind of doing reality checks on it. Is this a real concern? Or is this, you know, is this something that you've contrived? Or how does this look and, you know, so we do a lot of work on that. The other thing I think we do a lot of work on is just regular check in on self care. Because this is a time where, again, you can get pretty easy to fall into bad habits, you know, a couple of glasses of wine on the weekend can if your stress can easily turn into a lot more glasses of wine or other other behaviors that just aren't conducive, you know, maybe you stopped going to the gym, or maybe you stopped doing socializing with friends, you isolate yourself. And those are not helpful when you're going through the divorce, you need to maintain your social interactions, you need to have positive things in your life. And you need to find things that you enjoy doing. Even in the even in the heat of a contested divorce, you have to have a release, you have to have things that are fun, you have to have ways to boost your own sense of self, you can't just, you can't just become the divorce. And unfortunately, I have worked with women who are just consumed by the divorce. And there's men out there too. It's just I don't work with men, so but we're the divorce becomes every single thing. Like that's what they wake up worrying about in the morning. And that's what they go to sleep, when they finally do at three o'clock in the morning, worrying about is what's going to happen in the divorce. And that's not healthy. It's just not.
Steve Altishin
So keeping kind of away from the cliff is a big part of what you try to do.
Mardi Winder-Adams
Mm hmm. And sometimes that means talking to them about hey, is there may be a need for a therapist as part of your divorce support team. And I'm very open with my clients, if I feel that there's a need, you know, I don't again, tell them hey, go get a therapist, and here's her number, what I do say is would this be a benefit to you? And just having that conversation and just recognizing that, you know, hey, maybe this might be something you want to consider. And it is a it is a very valid opportunity to work through some relationship issues. If you're working with a
Steve Altishin
therapist. One of the big issues also that we see is that, you know, clients don't know what to ask. And when they're talking to an attorney, you know, and and they may not ask a question about something that they just don't know. I mean, they don't know what they don't know. Exactly. And and it feels like you what you do kind of helps in that it helps by asking them the questions. They can probably go Oh, yeah, yeah, I do have that question. Right.
Mardi Winder-Adams
And sometimes one of the one of the best questions, Steve, that I do at the beginning of the session is, what are you not certain about right now, at this point in your life right now? What are you not? What are you not certain about? And so it's interesting how sometimes they'll say, Well, I didn't really understand what the divorce attorney said when he said, or she said this, what does that mean? And so then what do you need to know about that? So we talk about those kinds of things. So like I said, my coaching is more situational. Helping people. The other thing we work on a lot is budgeting. So how do you set up a budget? How do you plan you know, now that maybe you're only got one income or maybe access to joint credit cards and joint bank accounts has been frozen or cut off? How do you deal with that? So we worked in practical stuff as well as the more emotional side of the process.
Steve Altishin
The you mentioned that you also talk with people who are We're going to go into mediation. And yeah, there's a lot of people who call attorneys and they don't maybe aren't ready for divorce yet, maybe aren't sure yet. Maybe don't know if they how much of an attorney they need yet. And they, you know, the Dragonwell? Why don't you know if you guys are gonna go go to mediation? And they do. So could I come in to you and say, Look, my attorney says, you know, I'm not hired him yet. But he said, you know, you guys might want to try mediation, can they come to you at that point to to kind of help work through that process? Sure.
Mardi Winder-Adams
And that's, that's another good one is how do you choose a mediator? Because that makes a difference? There's a whole bunch of different styles of mediators. So how do you how do you choose a mediator? What you know, what do you want to discuss in mediation? Do you want to just talk about the viability of the relationship? Or do you want to knock out everything, including the the co parenting plan and mediation? You know, so there's a lot of different things. And being prepared for mediation is critical. Not, you know, knowing what you want to say, I always throw in that that now what now your best alternative to a negotiated settlement, you're your worst alternative? You need to know what that range is, so that you can walk out of there and go, Okay, I did, okay. Because the last thing you want to do is agree to stuff in mediation and then start backtracking buyer's remorse and backtracking because that does create that does create conflict, and it does create a lot of additional as, you know, legal costs. So
Steve Altishin
yeah, and we're, unfortunately, we just zipped to these things. We're running low on time. But one of the things that I think, you know, it's not you're not just another cost, you're not more cost, I think it sounds like you know, you can help reduce the entire cost of a divorce with a lot of this stuff and not, not minimally by not being the person they can talk to about all these questions we talked about, without a lot of words really don't need to be attorney. Question time and, and expensive.
Mardi Winder-Adams
Yeah, and I think I think the thing that I would like to say too, is I don't think everybody needs a divorce coach. So I'm just going to throw that out there. If you are in a pretty good relationship, and things are fairly amicable about the settlement, you probably don't need a divorce coach, unless you're feeling really overwhelmed. But if you're dealing with a difficult partner, somebody with a personality disorder, or somebody who is just a high conflict individual or a very competitive person, or very aggressive in their business dealings, and has to be the winner, having somebody in your corner to help you, how do you talk to that person? How do you navigate how do you set boundaries? How do you create expectations and be able to hold to them throughout the divorce so that like I've said before, you don't feel like you've just got steamrolled. I think that's really, really important. So and that saves you money, because you're clear, you make better decisions, you talk to the you know, you talk to your attorney, you know what to say and you move forward with confidence,
Steve Altishin
high conflict, divorces are so tough and that's exactly what doesn't end up happening. A lot of times, it's just staying settled staying with the ability to make good decisions. You know, your your soon to be ex could be narcissistic, could be just, you know, bullying could be a million things, and that can throw the best of people off. Yes, yes.
Mardi Winder-Adams
Especially, you know, I know narcissistic is a big term now. It's used a lot, but you don't have to be a narcissist to be a jerk, like anybody, Victor, during a divorce. So just, you know, recognizing that you can, you know, as the old saying goes, you can stoop to their level and engage in that behavior, or you can elevate yourself and really model especially if you've got kids really effective ways to go through that situation and come out better as a better person for doing it.
Steve Altishin
Well. We are almost done. And I gotta say, you've done two things today. First, you quoted one of my favorite songs. You know, you can't always get what you want, but you might find to get what you did. Yeah, when you need. You don't have to be a narcissist to be a jerk. That's a great line. I wonder if you have to be a jerk to be a narcissist. But having said that, just something we missed something you really would want as a takeaway as a final thing to say to someone watching today. If you
Mardi Winder-Adams
are concerned about any aspect of your divorce, and you are feeling overwhelmed and distraught, you don't have to do it on your own. There are confidential people who can support you and help you doesn't have to be me. There's a there's a bazillion divorce coaches out there. But please don't don't isolate yourself and just sit back and say, Oh, well, you know, I'll deal with a, I'll deal with it. Once it's over, start dealing with it now take control of it, get comfortable, become confident in making the choices because you're, you'll feel way better when you get through the other side.
Steve Altishin
I love that. I love that. But if they do want to get a hold of you, how do they do that?
Mardi Winder-Adams
Sure. It's go to my website, it's www dot divorce coach for and that's the number for women.com. And there is actually a giveaway. There are 10 questions to ask before hiring a divorce attorney. And there's also a free strategy session if they want to just hop on and have a half an hour conversation with me. No sales involved, I'd be happy to do that. If I can get them over a little hurdle and get them heading in the right direction.
Steve Altishin
No, I love that. That. That that's that's worth its weight in gold. We're unfortunately going to have to close up. Thank you, Marty so much for sitting down today. You know, the benefits of divorce coach is not just always Oh yeah, it's got to be this and you really made it understandable and informative. And so people like me can understand. And that's not an easy thing to do. So thank you.
Mardi Winder-Adams
Thank you, Steve. It's been great speaking with you.
Steve Altishin
Oh, you too. And everyone else, thank you for joining us today. Of course if anyone has further questions on today's topic, you can also post it here and we can get you connected with Mardi. And until next time, everyone stay safe, stay happy, and be well.
Outro:
This has been Modern Family Matters, a legal podcast focusing on providing real answers and direction for individuals and families. Our podcast is sponsored by Pacific Cascade Legal, serving families in Oregon and Washington. If you are in need of legal counsel or have additional questions about a family law matter important to you, please visit our websites at pacificcascadelegal.com or pacificcascadefamilylaw.com. You can also call our headquarters at (503) 227-0200 to schedule a case evaluation with one of our seasoned attorneys. Modern Family Matters, advocating for your better tomorrow and offering legal solutions important to the modern family.