077 - Steven Clausnitzer - CEO and Co-founder of Forever Labs

Steven shares his path in the corporate world to learning about stems cells and the subsequent creation of Forever Labs. Steven Clausnitzer is the CEO and Co-founder of Forever Labs, where they store STEM cells so you can live longer and healthier. 

Steven is also an avid supporter of young entrepreneurs helping them any way he can. Prior to Forever Labs, Steven Clausnitzer spent 15 years mentoring and developing top-talent at fortune 500 companies including American Express and Wolters Kluwer. Steven has extensive experience in strategic growth, commercialization, and team leadership.

https://foreverlabs.com/

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Steven Clausnitzer

[00:00:00] Jolie Downs: Today. We are speaking with Steven K Snitzer. Steven is the CEO and co-founder of forever labs where they store stem cells. So you can live a longer and healthier life. Steven is also an avid supporter of young entrepreneurs, helping them in a variety of ways prior to forever labs. Steven spent 15 years mentoring and developing top talent at fortune 500 companies, including American express. And Walter's.

[00:00:28] Steven has extensive experience and strategic growth commercialization and team leadership. I'm really excited to learn more. Steven, thank you for joining us on fresh blood, please. Could you tell us a little bit more about your story and getting to where you are today? 

Steven Clausnitzer: Sure. , I don't know how far back you want me to go.

[00:00:45] I was whatever's relevant. I think it's always good and proper to, , point out some of the things that were outside of your control that were really fortunate. Right, right, right. Um, yeah. I was born in the United States. Very fortunate. I was born to, , a great family. Very fortunate. Yes. My grandfather's on both sides of my family.

[00:01:04] I'm the cloud sensor side and the Ramirez side. We're both entrepreneurs. They both started their own businesses. So I feel very fortunate to have had that very mm-hmm , and I think that we, as human beings are often products of what we see is capable. Right? If you grow up in. Father or mother was a, uh, concert pianist.

[00:01:23] Well, that just seems normal to you as a child. You're just like, okay, anyone can be a concert pianist. Right. I grew up and, , my grandfathers were both entrepreneurs and started their own businesses and I saw them employ other people and, , strive to do big, big things. Right. And so to me, it just seemed like that's what people can do if they want to do.

[00:01:40] It seemed very approachable. , and so a big part of my story is being fortunate enough to have been born with, , these great examples. , I think I always knew I wanted to start my own business. I didn't know what it was going to be. I, , I think at first I thought restaurants and mm-hmm um, because of that after college, I managed a restaurant for a while and then.

[00:02:00] I saw that all the people that seemed to be having the most fun in the restaurant over these sales reps, , that would come in and dine and, and wine and dine people. And, , I still didn't know what kind of business I wanted to start. It did. I didn't want it to be a restaurant cause I met this wonderful one.

[00:02:15] We fell in love, we got married. And when everyone else is out celebrating, , you're running a restaurant and you don't have much of a personal life. And so I realized that it wasn't a restaurant, , being a restaurant tour wasn't in my future. Um, I. Applied to work at a company called, , Cisco, which is a food distribution company.

[00:02:31] Mm-hmm , in sales, cuz again, I saw all these people live, seem to live pretty good lives in sales and kind of can, it's almost like you work for another company, but you are kind of an entrepreneur in the sense you control your schedule, both worlds kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's a lot of structure from the corporate entity, but you can go out there and forge your own path.

[00:02:48] Um, so I did that. I did well there. I was recruited away from that company by American express. And I worked there in a direct, , sales role. , had a lot of success there. , went over to Walter's clear a, a company which is in software sales. Cause I wanted to learn, , software sales. I was in the finance sector with American express, wanted to go learn software, worked for Walters clear for a very short amount of time, but had a good amount of success there too.

[00:03:14] And then my best friend, and this is another piece. Maybe I created my own luck here, but I would say surround yourself with talented people. , my best friend's a medical physicist. He spent his, uh, well now at this point, 20 plus years. Yeah. Studying mesenchymal stem cells and treating various oh wow.

[00:03:33] Neuro pathologies. Yeah. And one day, , he reached out to me and we were talking about another project we were working on and mark, his name is mark Kowski. Started telling me about this research. He was doing where he was taking young stem cells from young mice and treating older mice with that have strokes to get them to heal.

[00:03:52] And he was having great success, but he started seeing that, and these, these mice are genetically matched. So it'd be like young Jo, uh, giving older Julie, you know, stem cells. Mm-hmm um, he started seeing that these mice that got the younger to old stem cells were actually not just recovering faster with the stroke, but you.

[00:04:08] Living healthier afterwards. So mm-hmm, , he became convinced that having access to your own young stem cells would be beneficial later in life. Interesting. So by the end of this conversation that we're having really just randomly, both of us were like, gosh, let's do this. I wanna, I wanna store my stem cells.

[00:04:23] Yeah. And, , and the reason being he's, he's telling me all of this for the first time. About how he was telling me that as you age, you lose these cells, they call mesenchymal stem cells. You lose them, uh, in both number and functions. So the older you get, the less of them you have, and the worse they get because of like DNA, replication, errors, et cetera, they keep making copies of themselves.

[00:04:44] And if they have damage, they, unfortunately, they replicate the damage too. And it gets where it worse and worse. So we didn't decide on this call to like start a company. We wanted to find a company that would do this for us. We, we figured this must exist already. And so we spent weeks looking for a company to literally take out our bone marrow and store it for us.

[00:05:03] Um, and it didn't exist. And so I reached out to a friend of mine that went to high school with, and his family seems Dr. LA Fario, he's a wonderful orthopedic surgeon practices in Michigan. And I said, Hey late, I've got a strange question. Would you take out my cell, my mine and my friend's bone marrow so that we can store it in liquid nitrogen.

[00:05:24] And he, he sort of laughed and he said, it's really not that strange of a question. So it turns out, and this is what we didn't know at the time that physicians all across the country, you know, all over the world. Are taking out bone marrow at point of care, it's not painful. It takes like 10, 15 minutes concentrating it.

[00:05:40] And then, uh, in a centrifuge. So you concentrate all the amount of nuclear cells from the bone marrow, and then they're treating areas of injury. What happens is the cells go to the area of injury and they help coordinate the healing effort. You heal faster, you can grow healthy new tissue. So these doctors are already doing all this, but no one was storing it.

[00:05:55] And so that's neat. Yeah, that's when, , and he said something to us, he goes, um, and by the way, I've. Some of my patients asked me if they can store some for later. And then mark and I were like, well, if people are asking for it, we know we want to do it. And we started talking to friends and family, like, yeah, we would do it.

[00:06:11] , so we started with one doctor in Michigan and next thing you know, people started like flying out from San Francisco from mostly San Francisco actually. Um, I'm from there. I'm like, I want it. Yeah, totally. You should do it. We'll talk afterwards. But the. People were flying in from San Francisco to Michigan to bank.

[00:06:31] And, , one of them, , asked us to come out to their house in San Francisco and give a talk. And so we went out and gave a talk about, , longevity science and stem cells. And before we knew it, we had people investing in the company and a bunch of people signing up up there. We brought out a doctor in San Francisco, and the, we were sort of off to the races we had.

[00:06:49] , a guy named Sam Altman, who at the time now he's the, , co-founder of open AI with Elon Musk. But at the time he was the president of Y Combinator, , which is a famous tech accelerator that has launched like Airbnb, Dropbox, Reddit, Stripe. I mean, all of these billion dollar companies that you move, they have your company move out to San Francisco for three months and they coach you heavily.

[00:07:09] And then you raise money and you grow. You're supposed to, the idea is to grow very quickly. So. We got asked to meet with Sam and we went in and he, he asked us to join Y Combinator and it was awesome. We moved out there spent three months working on the business. As you, as I mentioned, we were in two we're in Michigan and San Francisco at the time.

[00:07:26] By the time we came out of there, I think we were in like six or seven states. Amazing. We had had a small handful of people sign up for it. And by the time we were done with the program, you know, a few hundred people had signed up and it was growing and it was really cool. And so we went through that program and, , Just the best for me.

[00:07:42] It was like, as I mentioned, my grandfather is both entrepreneurs. I love entrepreneurship. Mm-hmm . And so just being surrounded by another, there was like a hundred companies that went through the company, the batch with us being surrounded by that much energy. Yeah. Just like people trying to solve big problems too, you know, it's not.

[00:07:59] , these are really, really smart people trying to solve really, really complex problems. And this is a personal fantasy you're describing for me. I would love to be a part of something like that. That sounds amazing. What learning must have been happening throughout that whole process. So fast, so much and so fast.

[00:08:16] Like we, , I always say the greatest comp I have, I have three children, , my wife and I have three kids and I always say the greatest compliment I can give. Is that I hope that my children have a professional and educational experience that is on par with what I had at Y Combinator. It was really, really great.

[00:08:31] , and it's not done, it's kind of like once you've gone through the program, , you can reach out to any of these CEOs at any other companies and get advice and you can take office hours. Really talented, smart people. And, , and then you're part of that. So now I do that with other entrepreneurs and talk to them about forever labs.

[00:08:50] And most of what I try to impart on people is what not to do. You know, we've made some mistakes along the way that I, I think, , We didn't have to, if, if someone had, you know, coached us mm-hmm . So I try now to, when I can mentor young entrepreneurs, um, you know, most of these men and women are very, very smart.

[00:09:08] They don't need me to tell 'em what to do. I just try to tell them, Hey, look out for this situation. Well, for any entrepreneurs that are listening, you know, what's the, what's, what's a big overarching piece of advice that you give people that you is just relevant, that people should be thinking. Sure.

[00:09:23] Especially if there's like someone who has an idea sitting there waiting don't my, my advice is don't wait, mm-hmm don't over optimize, you know, there's always, oh, it's gonna be better in a couple months when I do this, that or the, the other don't over optimize. Don't wait for the best moment. Just go, um, move fast.

[00:09:40] Find if you can a really strong co-founder mm-hmm um, running a business is a it's the ups and downs are immense. When it's high, they're really high and it's low, it's really low and it can be scary and it can be daunting and it can be really exciting and wonderful. And all those emotions are best had when you can share them with someone else.

[00:10:02] So, you know, most things in life are more fun if you have, I think if you have someone that you can share them with, right? So if you go through and you're a solo founder, I just can't imagine. I can't imagine it would be so hard on me. , but mark has been such a great co-founder and we have another co-founder with us named Eddie CBO and Edward is Eddie an amazing human being as well.

[00:10:22] And just having those two guys, I, I just feel like we're brothers and arms, and we went through, we've gone through battle together and we have the scars to prove it. And we have that actually it's the rewards to prove it too. Yeah. So find a strong co-founder. If you can move fast. Don't wait, don't over optimize that those would be some big keys.

[00:10:40] Yeah. Perfection is an enemy of progress. Right. You know, I love you. You're right. There are so many, so many highs and so many lows when you're doing this kind of thing, it's it is a roller coaster. Have you found anything that's helped you navigate that roller coaster that might help others? , I mean, having a good co-founder having, you know, uh, things in my life that I do.

[00:11:02] Kind of center me, I guess, , would be, I'm a big fan of meditation. I meditate twice a day for 20 minutes and it's a lot of time when you're running a company like 20 minutes is 40 minutes a day is a big chunk of time, but it's well worth it. , I have tremendous amounts of energy because of it. Mm-hmm um, what other things to navigate the highs and the lows?

[00:11:22] I think, , I just think it takes us kind of, I don't wanna too my own horn at all, but I'm just saying it does take a specific type of person. Like there are some people, entrepreneurship is not for you. Like you shouldn't do it. Yeah. Right. Maybe it's not for you. Yeah. Because it, it is taxing and there's going to be no, sh I can tell you, there are points in the history of our company where most other people would've probably thrown in the towel and given up and moved on.

[00:11:49] You know, there's no quit in us. And, , because of that, we've, we've had some success and. Yeah. So I think just, just don't quit. You gotta have the mindset that I'm never going to quit ever. Yeah. It's gotta, you gotta love it so that you have that mindset, right. Because that's how you gotta get through.

[00:12:06] Yeah. And you're right. It isn't for everybody. And the, the thing is, is, you know, nothing really is for everybody. It's about finding that right. Fit for you. And even as an entrepreneur, cause I am absolutely an entrepreneur at heart, even as an entrepreneur, it is also finding that right business for you too, because.

[00:12:23] I've had, I've been a part of multiple businesses and as actually a part of a, a business with a family members, , that I got into to help out family members, but it was not a business that spoke to me. And basically when I was left holding, holding the bag and taking care of everything, it was not a business that.

[00:12:40] I really wanted to be a part of, and that's not fun either, even though I love as long I can imagine, you know? Yeah. I mean, that's a, you, you hit the nail on the head. If , if you don't love something, it's really easy to quit. Mm-hmm , you know, um, you have to love it. You have to be one of the, my grandfather on the cloud sensor side, unfortunately passed away maybe four or five years ago.

[00:13:02] Sorry. And, um, He had towards the end, , some dementia, but one of the last conversations I can remember having when he was, you know, still with it, I told him I was like, I called him OPPA. I was like, OPPA. I feel like I'm obsessed. Like all I think about is this company and running it and, and he looked at me and he had very deep voice and he said, I think that's okay.

[00:13:24] because he himself had been, I think he was sort of self rationalizing his own obsession with his company, but he it's true. You have to be obsessed with it. , in order to be obsessed with something, you have to kind of love it. Right. So you should love it. If it's a, not an idea. That I can't imagine starting a company just to make money.

[00:13:42] Like, do you imagine going through all this and hating it, like, think about that. Yeah. Yeah. That's painful. Yeah. So, I mean, like solve problem. I went through it. It's painful. yeah. I would never do it. I just, , and the other thing too, is like, once you make the leap to entrepreneurship, It's very hard to go back, , to working for somebody else.

[00:14:01] So I can't, I don't think I'm ruined for that. agree. But when you, um, when you love something and if it's a problem you really wanna solve and that you're passionate about, you'll walk through fire to get it done. . Yeah. Mm-hmm , mm-hmm, absolutely, you know, you, I can only imagine all the things that you've learned through this process, because this is, I mean, there's been quite a bit that you've gone through just in the time from starting the company into now, I'm curious, what is one of the greatest lessons that you've taken away from this experience you feel is given you such a great, great benefit in life at this point in time.

[00:14:39] I mean, not to hammer on a point we're already making, but just like, , persistence and the lesson that, high activity equals high results. Mm-hmm like if you put in the time and the effort, the persistence, like good things will happen. Mm-hmm um, the other thing is, uh, trust your instincts and your gut.

[00:14:58] There has been no shortage of times at the beginning where I felt something about someone or a situation. And I like something was telling me something was wrong here. Mm-hmm and I didn't trust that instinct. Um, I've learned to trust that now. Um, it's a big one. Isn't it? It's yeah, it's a, it is a big one and unfortunately, you know, I still have.

[00:15:17] And why Combinator preached this to us is to assume best intentions. Mm-hmm that's still how I approach life. Like I will assume best intentions in you, but the first time the second time, like I'm gonna trust my instincts and we're gonna part ways. We've been really fortunate to have a really strong, , group of people that work for us and with us.

[00:15:36] , and that to me is the, the greatest compliment actually you could receive as an entrepreneur is like, Caliber of people that are willing to join you, you know, that's awesome. That's really cool. Like our, we have a COO her name's Anne, Sodo and Anne is like just such a wonderful person, but also just so smart and talented and the fact that she's willing to, she could do anything, you know, and that she's willing to work with us.

[00:16:02] And, , being our team is, is huge. And, , yeah, , made some lifelong friendships. With people that have joined our team and that's been really cool. But, , the biggest thing I've learned is to trust probably is to trust my instincts. Mm. Yeah. That's a big one. I'm curious, you know, you've done, you've done a lot of different things.

[00:16:20] What, actually, before I ask you that question, let me ask you this. What is your personal definition of success? Good question. So my personal definition of success, I don't know that I've ever written this down, but like what comes to me immediately is just, , is fulfillment, like being fulfilled. And for me to be, feel fulfilled, , again, getting to back where we're talking, I'd have to be solving a problem.

[00:16:44] I wanna solve mm-hmm that I think is worthy of my time and effort mm-hmm , and then I have to be making progress toward that goal. Mm-hmm , What we're doing at forever labs. We literally truly believe that by having access, I'm gonna turn 45 in may. , I have access to my 38 year old stem cells. Very good.

[00:17:02] Every year I get older. Every year I get older. Those cells become more valuable to me. Yeah. , the ones in my body you're getting worse. Those are remain unchanged and you can grow them to hundreds of millions of cells. So, , Eventually I'd like to do by the time I'm 50. I'd like to start growing these cells on a schedule and reintroducing them so that I have younger bone connect tissue, vasculature, et cetera.

[00:17:22] Um, so for me, success is, , just, , sometimes it's leaps forward and other times it's little increment and sometimes there's a few steps back, but as long as we're moving towards that goal, where I can take our now thousands of clients and, , push the ball. Towards, , the ultimate goal, which is to be able to pro , prophylactically, or like, to be able to use these cells, not to treat, disease, but to prevent it.

[00:17:48] Yeah. That to me is success like, oh, incredible. I feel so fulfilled every time. Like, something like that happens. We get a little closer here. , yeah, I mean that, so I don't know. I think success is almost defined. Every day differently, but it's almost, I feel fulfilled in what I'm doing and I almost always do.

[00:18:06] , I think I'm a successful person. , interestingly, so like we've been fortunate to have some financial success in life, even outside of forever labs, you know, from some of the previous endeavors I had before forever labs. That's not success. Yeah. Like the old adage, like money can't buy you. Happiness is a, is 100% true.

[00:18:27] , so I've learned that that is not definitely not my definition of success. Like financial gain is not. Yeah. But solving problems, creating, making things. That's when I feel the most fulfilled mm-hmm um, so for me, that's success. Yeah. Even when you're saying those things, it feels different in the. You know, when you're talking about, , like financial success, you know, it's like, oh, but then you talk about creating, build it's like this excitement, , comes in into the body.

[00:18:53] It deals, it feels more live. I'm also an interestingly mark. My co-founder is beautiful. , oil painter, like a really talented guy. , He's a, like a real Renaissance man. , and I'm a musician, a singer songwriter. And so, , I think that us, both being artists and taking that side, that creative side to our business, , has really helped us as well.

[00:19:19] But, , we like to make things, , mark and I created a website before we started this company called hubs ski.com, which you can go check out. What is it, what what's the website about? Well, , it's like Reddi. But for smart people so the tagline is a thoughtful web and people go there and have like thoughtful conversation, ground science, technology, medicine, even religion, and like politics in a thoughtful way.

[00:19:41] Um, yeah, it's really cool. Still runs today. , but we're always trying to make things and, , we do that within forever labs too. So we have our core product, which is to bank stem cells and very exci that is all of our. Like the finish line is us being able to use those cells to get people to live. We've been able to get mice to live like 26% longer.

[00:20:00] Well, here's what I'm curious about. Are people bringing in, like, can you use your kids' stem cells? Like, I mean, cuz you know, I know like I, I banked my baby stem cells when, when he was born. And I know that that could be used for me potentially. , not my husband, but for me potentially. But is that something like, even at this stage, like you're, you know, your kid.

[00:20:22] Could your kid's stem cells be used for you? I mean, yeah, that's a good question. So you, first of all, good for doing good on you for doing that, your son would never have to do forever lap. Like he has his best possible cell set aside. Anyone that's listening to this, that is a prospective parent like bank, your kid sell, , and, , your, your child will never have to bank or banquet forever labs, cuz we'll always already have them set aside.

[00:20:45] As far as you using your child. Perhaps. , so if you, , the first ever stem cell treatment really that was approved is a bone marrow transplant. So if you have a blood cancer and you find someone that's often a relative, who's a direct match, mm-hmm, an HLA match. , you can get their bone marrow. And so what they do is they put you on these immunosuppressant drugs, they deplete you of your bone marrow and reintroduce the donors, bone marrow.

[00:21:09] And even though. A direct match, family member, all this stuff. There's still like a 50% rejection rate. It's really high. Yeah. So what happens is your, your immune system essentially looks in there and says, Hey, this isn't Julie. , this is someone else's cells and they combat them as foreign. And it's really awful.

[00:21:26] And in fact, Often when someone will die from, one of these blood cancers. It's, it's not the cancer it's graft first host that will take them because of this process. , so if you can have your own cells set aside, you want that because it will not be rejected. , These cells when they're yours. So donor cells can have a positive impact.

[00:21:46] So your child sells, let's see a bad elbow, tennis elbow, and you introduce your child cells into your elbow. They can decrease inflammation and that can be positive, but, uh, chances are, they're not going to engraft, which means they won't stay there. Your immune system will get rid of them. Mm-hmm and they won't have a chance to engraft and, , potentially grow healthy, new.

[00:22:05] Which is what you want. Mm-hmm so you want your own, and I, I mean, I'm looking at you right now. You're young. You should, you should do it. So people always feel like they're too old to do it. That's the other thing. , you will talk to someone who's in their thirties and they'll say, oh, if I had done it in my twenties, and then you talk to someone who's in their forties and they're like, oh, if I'd only done it in my thirties, I'm still younger than I will be in 10 years, 10 years, 30 years.

[00:22:26] exactly right. Yeah, exactly. Right. And I always tell people. You know, have you ever looked at a picture of you from 10 years ago and be like, oh my gosh, that was so awesome. Look at me. Well, biologically speaking, you probably were better off 10 years ago. If you were to take that same pic, like take a picture of yourself right now, 10 years from now, you're gonna say the same thing and in a very real way, you can take that biology and set it.

[00:22:50] For the future with forever labs. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty cool. All right. Well, tell me what about, we've talked a lot about your successes. What about a time of great difficulty? , what's a, a time that you've had a great challenge. How did you get through it? What did you learn from it?

[00:23:04] Yeah. Interesting. Okay. We are a venture back company, so we're backed by investors. , and we were raising what what's referred to as a series, a, a round of financing, a large round of financing. We're gonna raise like, , three to $5 million to help expand the company and do all these things we wanted to do.

[00:23:22] And we have all these investors lined. Ready to do it, excited to do it in. , and this was in like January of 2019 , and all of a sudden February hits and we're like getting towards the finish line and COVID, you know, happens and all, everyone it's even now, even though it's such recent memory, it's, it's hard to remember how scary that was to everybody I see.

[00:23:50] Right. COVID hits, everyone's locked in their house. Lines at the grocery store out the window. Like everything changed like that. Yeah. And all of these investors, , retracted, every one of 'em was like, Hey, we're not doing any new allocations. And so I'm still running a company, but I can't bring any revenue into the company because all of the clinics were closed.

[00:24:11] You could only do. You couldn't do any elective procedures, you could only do emergency procedures, et cetera. So we had like three months of no revenue investors backed out and, , And we still have to pay for all the storage and the labs and the business offices and all this stuff. And so you have this, , you know, this burned, occurring financially and no revenue coming in.

[00:24:34] It was just a really, really scary time. And so. , what did we do? Well, I I'm really proud of what we did actually. So we had a few years prior, we had, I'm getting chills. We had, are we excited to hear this? Well, we had a patent that we filed. , and if are you familiar with P R P or platelet rich plasma?

[00:24:53] It's like a, , I I've heard of it and I I'm vague. I'm not like a super psych I'll, I'll just do like a quick, give us a quick, very fast. So like you let's say you have a bad knee, you go to the doctor, often the doctor will say, Hey, , Julie, we can take your blood. We'll concentrate it in a, Centri take all of the, , platelet, rich plasma from your blood and introduce it into the knee.

[00:25:10] And it helps decrease inflammation and, , coordinate the healing process. Cetera. And it's, it's being used to great effect all over the. , we filed a patent that allowed you to add, , a density gradient to the platelet, rich plasma, that long story short we're able to, , add like hundreds of billions of these extracellular vesicles to the PRP, which are like exosomes and these other really small microvesicles.

[00:25:32] They're so small that a regular centrifuge can't grab 'em. In fact, when they study 'em they have to use like an ultra high-speed center to use the size of like a washing machine, run it for 24 hours just to grab 'em. But we developed this little physics trick that lets. In two minutes, like pellet them out.

[00:25:46] It's really cool. Wow. So we patented this years ago and we were sitting on a shelf and I was like, not, I actually give credit to mark here. Mark was like, well, we've got this patent sitting here, like, all right, let's commercialize it. So we spent. You know, much of 2019, really up until today, , commercializing this pattern, we call it super shot.

[00:26:03] You can go to super shot. P R p.com. If you're a physician or someone who's interested in PRP, check it out. Super proud of it though, because instead of like, we have this whole team, we could have laid them all off. , and we kept the team. We were like, we're gonna build this product. Mm-hmm so we built it.

[00:26:18] We got, I mean, like gratitude to, , our government, because we got, , the, , PPP loans. Yeah. Which really like helped us our whole team together. I didn't have to fire anybody or letting anyone go. , so we retained our team. We built a whole new product line, which is now revenue facing and like amazing money off this product.

[00:26:35] , and we ended up raising around. Hats off to a group called north, uh, NM future ventures, which is the venture arm of Northwestern mutual. They came up and led around for us and all of our, almost all of our existing investors, like POI up and came together and like supported our company. So. It was a scary time, but we took lemons and made some lemonade and I'm proud of, you know, how we got through it.

[00:27:01] I'm most proud of the fact that we, um, everyone on our team stayed employed. No, that's amazing. Well, it's anyway, it's incredible. Not only that, but you, you continued to create, you know, you didn't, you didn't. Stay SA you didn't stay stagnant. You didn't get, I don't know. You didn't sit there and wallow, you, you, you looked around, you figured out what you could do.

[00:27:19] You figured out how you could keep moving forward, keep working towards goals. And you did that and you created a whole new avenue. I mean, it's, it's wonderful. And that's, and that's what, that's what successful people do they look for the different avenues to, okay. I can't, this, this has been stopped. I can't control this.

[00:27:35] Yeah. So what can I control? Let's go focus there. while I can. Yeah. That's exactly right. Yeah. Oh, that's that's fantastic. So I'm curious. Have, did you develop any, I mean, you've, you've had a lot going on. I, I think about all the different things that you've been juggling. Have you developed any habits that have helped you stay on top of your game during this.

[00:27:56] Yeah. I mean, I don't think anything revolutionary. Right? , I'm a big list guy. I love to make lists every day and it feels, I mean, it just feels good, right? Like, and I'm, I'm an old school guy. I've got a notebook, that I carry and have, have that all in. It's not digital, even though I know there's plenty of tools out there to do that, , that meditation.

[00:28:15] I also work out now. Um, you know, this is a relatively new addition to my life. Yeah. I notice the now , , yeah. Now, , but I, I see a trainer twice a week, in the morning and work out and that, , I should probably get that up to three times a week, but it's, , that's been really great. , I bet that's helpful having a trainer too.

[00:28:32] Do you find that makes a big difference? Yeah, it's huge. Like, , I, you know, off, off the interview before we started, I told you I'm pathologically early, right? Yeah. Um, I am. I am like that. If I, if I feel like someone is going, someone's counting on me for something, I will be there. I'm not gonna call in.

[00:28:50] I'm not gonna, I don't care if I don't feel well, if I feel sick because of COVID or something like that. Of course. But if I feel tired or cuz I was out. You know, at dinner the night before or something, I'm still gonna show up and put in the work if someone's expecting me to be there. So, yeah, I think like that is almost, , 90% of at this point, the role of the trainer is like, I feel obligated to be there because of him.

[00:29:13] I feel like now I've been doing it long enough to where I could. I actually don't need one in, in the sense that I, I, I know the exercises and stuff. , but yeah, it's really nice to have. I'm very fortunate to be able to do that. Yeah, no, that's great. Well, and that's a, that's a huge habit right there. Just to be someone who always takes responsibility for what they say they're gonna do.

[00:29:33] , if you say you're gonna be somewhere, you're gonna be there, even if you're tired, what have you. So that's a, that's a pretty big habit.. And like, if you were to ask Anne on our team, she might. She might challenge that a little bit, a few times he hasn't shown up, but, , no, I try to always, my family we'll have a slip up here or there

[00:29:53] Well, tell me, , I'm curious, this is a little off, but I'm curious. Have you ever felt stuck in life? Yeah. What'd you do about it? What ha like, what were you, what happened? You just UN yeah. Unstick yourself. So I remember, , that first job I, I had, , on a out of the restaurant, I was working a place called, , Cisco selling food and, , people were name, remain nameless, but, , I felt very stuck.

[00:30:12] I was like, I have been rookie of the year, , chairman's club, president's club, all these things you can win. I had won them and I was like, okay. I feel like I've kind of. , and then everyone, like older people in the company were like, you're crazy if you're gonna leave. And they're like, you should stay.

[00:30:26] Like, you have such a bright future here. And. , I started feeling like this, pull towards that and I was gonna say, and it, cuz it kept being like, yeah, I could be like vice president of sales. I could be all these things. And , then I, it started feeling more like what you're describing, like stuck. Like I just like, , I'm gonna be stuck here.

[00:30:43] I know it. Like I'll just be here the rest of my career and I won't be happy. , And so, yeah, I just made the leap. , I went to a whole different company, , in a whole, in like the financial sector. I had no experience in, , and made a leap. And I was told very specifically by the vice president of sales that I wouldn't be successful.

[00:31:00] It was to say, he's like, yeah, he's like, good. This is what, you know, you're not gonna be successful over there. , and I was, I was like, number one in the country. And you know, you're always, if you have. If you're the person, the kind of person that's just gonna go out there and win and not quit. Like you're gonna carry that everywhere.

[00:31:18] So don't get stuck. Move on to new things. You wanna try something new? Do it, shake it out. One's gonna do it for you. You have to do it. Mm-hmm um, so just like, yeah, let's stick yourself if you're what's that the old thing I, I, or the adage, like Steve jobs used to look in the mirror every day in the morning.

[00:31:35] And if, if there are too many days in a row where you felt like I don't like what I'm doing today, He just like completely upended his life and changed things. And I think that's pretty cool. And there's definitely times where I'm like that. And often what it takes is for me to jump on a plane and like go somewhere else and meet with my team and, or, or mark somewhere that isn't.

[00:31:56] In the office and just get out of a routine. Yeah, I agree. No, I think that's great advice too. Just change it up. Anything, just, just change it up. Yeah, no, one's gonna do it for you, right? Yeah, no, one's gonna do it for you. And, and, and the thing is, I mean, people it's easy to get stuck. it's so easy to stay that's you right now?

[00:32:14] Think about it. Like there's so many. I mean, can't go out, right? Like can't life is very different than it used to be. It's getting more towards what it used to be, which is wonderful. But, um, yeah, I mean, for the last two years, It was easy to be stuck because you were in a lot of ways you were physically stuck, right?

[00:32:32] Yeah. Like you were in a building, but I, so many people have taken that it's so it's really inspiring and have been like, okay, I'm gonna be stuck here. I'm turning my garage into a gym or I'm doing this and I'm doing that. I'm gonna learn how to do X, Y, and Z. I'm never played the guitar before. I'm gonna try that.

[00:32:46] Yeah. Like I just think there are people that get stuck and there are people that are like, all right, this situation, What can I do to make it better? Um, yeah, I try to be that person. Well, you know what, everybody can be. That person, everybody can be that person, you know, I mean, there's lots of people out there who are stuck and they're stuck.

[00:33:04] And I just want them to know that they have every ability to be that person to get themselves outta the stock. We all do. And it's just that, it's just that sometimes, you know, we get a little, very light acceptable to like, um, like mental health is a very real thing. And like I'm not always as positive and awesome as I'd like to be.

[00:33:26] Um, One of our investors, another guy that I should mention that really like this guy really stepped up when, , things were tough. There's a guy named Kevin Love. He's an NBA five time NBA, all star place for Cleveland, just a, just an awesome person. But he also. He's like one of the first pro athletes to be really open about struggling with mental health issues.

[00:33:49] And he wrote like this op-ed piece, all about a panic attack he had during a basketball game. It's just really vulnerable stuff, which is pretty cool. Very cool. Highly recommend. Checking that out. Like he has a fun called the Kevin Love fund. , it's all about raising awareness for mental health. If you feel stuck and you're watching this and you're listening to this, , It happens to everyone.

[00:34:06] Like he is literally one of the greatest and like he was there. Yeah. So everyone can be there. It's um, yeah. Good luck. Yeah, we all, yeah, we can all be there. I, I was there many, a number of years ago. I had stick myself as well.

[00:34:24] So now. As far as what's benefited you in your life. I'm curious if there's any kind of book or talk or movie, something that has really impacted you in a positive way that you think other people could benefit from as well. Yeah. Good question. Talk.

[00:34:41] Um, Teddy Roosevelt gave a speech that's really famous called the man in the arena, man or woman in the arena to change it for modern times. Cuz I think that is important. , But, , it's basically about how the critic doesn't count somebody who's sitting on the sidelines criticizing you, you it's the person in the arena, mud on their face.

[00:34:57] As he says in it, like the one that's taking the bruises to try and strive for something, right? Like the man in the arena is what matters. Not the critic. Just remember that. No matter what you're doing out there, don't listen to the haters, go out there, go, go, go. So I love that. And I like Teddy Roosevelt a lot.

[00:35:15] So I'll transition right over to the book. That I, I think would be great is, , it's called river of doubt. Mm-hmm it's by an author named Candace Mallard, a great writer, phenomenal book. And it's Teddy Roosevelt. After he loses, he tried to run again on the bull moose ticket. Like this guy was awesome. He goes up and gives a speech in front of a crowd, , gets shot point blank.

[00:35:38] Bullet goes in him. He's bleeding. The only reason he even dies. His spectacles case like stopped the bullet. He's bleeding gives a speech for like 20 minutes and says it takes more than a bullet to kill a bull moose. And it's just like this famous, he's just a cool guy. This book Chronicles that Chronicles him going down the Amazon and he is, um, Uh, charting and mapping out, , tributaries, I guess, often the Amazon that were previously unmapped.

[00:36:04] , and like everyone, almost everyone dies, you know, along the way. It's just, I just can't imagine modern day leaders doing anything like that. I'm so fascinating with like, no, whatever. Yeah. , this is, this was a back then, you know, people were different and, , that's a great book. And the last one was movie.

[00:36:25] Yeah. Or a movie. Yeah. Mm-hmm movie. I'm not sure about the movie, but I just watched, I started watching a show called severance on apple plus. Oh, I just started, it just started that remarkable, so much fun topic worth the time. Anyways. Thank you. No, that was great. I'm actually really excited to go, go read that book.

[00:36:46] so, yeah, it's great. So wonderful. Now, as far as for people to find you, how can they find you? How can they find more about forever? Sure, , go to forever labs, plural, , dot com forever labs.com. And there'll be like a little box that pops up to talk to a human being. It's actually a human being. So if you have any questions, go ahead, ask we'll get back in touch with you.

[00:37:08] , that's probably the best way to do it. Honestly, you can info@foreverlabs.com if you wanna email us. And I assume you're gonna continue growing. I mean, this sounds like it's just. Growing significantly at this point. Yeah. We're excited about it. And now people just know about us through word of mouth, et cetera.

[00:37:25] And it has sort of a life of its own and, , very proud of that. Wonderful. Well, I'm, I'm excited about it. Thank you so much for sharing with us. And before you go, I'd love to ask you one final question. What are you sure of. Uh, my children's love for me. Ooh, nice. Thank you. . Thank you, Steven. I'm so grateful for you joining us.

[00:37:49] I loved our talk. Thank you, Julie. 

[00:37:52]

Jolie Downs:

I am fascinated with what Steven is doing, and grateful for the opportunity to learn more about this new service. 

I loved how right away Steven started talking about naming the things he was fortunate to be born into. I thought this was super powerful - for what you seek is what you see – so to begin any story with what you are grateful for – to be thinking of, aware of and deeply appreciative for your fortunes brings even more greatness and wonder into your life. 

So what are you grateful for in your story? What are the fortunes that have been given to you through the years? 

Spend some time thinking about all of those boosts you’ve gotten along the way and give thanks and gratitude. It will only bring more into life for you to be thankful for. 

Steven shared how his grandpas were both entrepreneurs doing big things, he grew up watching his grandparents succeed and so he grew up believing it could be possible for him too. Not everyone is as lucky with their family to be given an example that can help uplift them but there are people everywhere in this world in every occupation who could be shining examples of opportunity to you, if you go looking for them. They do not have to be your own family member. Find inspiration in the world around you. Find the people whose stories resonate with your own. Believe that if it can happen for them, it can happen for you. The people before you, living their dreams, going after their goals, they are giving you permission to do the same. And when you go out there and you start living your dreams and going after your goals, you’ll also give the people in your world the permission to do the same in return. Just doing you is a powerful inspiration in the world around you. 

Steven’s story of looking for that right work was excellent advice when you are trying to figure out what the right step for you is. Steven would look at not only what they were doing, but he looked at how they were living their lives and then he made choices to go after roles that aligned with how he wanted to live his own life. Great advice when evaluating a potential new career. For Steven it led him to sales where he dominated in his industry. 

After so many years working with Cisco in sales, at a top level, Steven started to feel stuck. He was feeling unsatisfied in life and unsure of what to do. When he started to talk about doing something new, he was told that he was crazy, he was on a rocket for career success with his current company, he was guaranteed a successful run – but for Steven, that would not have been a fulfilling run, which would not have equaled an actual success. As Steven shared, it’s not money or your work that makes you a success, it’s being fulfilled – and for Steven, that means working on a problem he is passionate about. So Steven made the leap – even though he was told he would fail – he jumped any way and made himself happy, not to mention successful with his work along the way. 

And if you are feeling stuck – you can do the same thing – you can unstick yourself. Use the Steve Jobs litmus test – if you wake up in the morning and you don’t like what you are doing too many days in a row, it’s time to make a change. Look at the situation that is causing the stuck feeling and ask yourself, what can I do to make it better. Start there.  

When Steven was presented with fascinating knowledge around stem cells he wanted to pursue the opportunity to save stem cells for himself. When he found no company existed, he figured out a way to make it happen for himself. When he found out others were interested as well, Steven once again decided to make the leap, he stepped into the risk, starting a new company in a new industry with a strong co-founder and incredible passion - what he found - was the universe carrying him. They did a talk which leads to meetings with investors which leads to an opportunity in Y Combinator and then they were off, building and growing and learning along the way. They now have a wildly successful company – all because they were willing to keep seeing this exciting new thing, one step further. They didn’t stop themselves. If they questioned themselves, they were smart enough to see through their own imposter syndrome and keep moving forward, they embraced the possibility and went for it. And that is what makes all the difference. 

Is there anything you’ve stopped yourself from doing or exploring? Giving yourself one excuse or another? What might your life look like if you opened yourself to the possibility? 

If there is something that you are passionate about, something you’ve been thinking about constantly but have never tried, take Steven’s advice –don’t wait – don’t over optimize – don’t put yourself in the prison of thinking everything has to be perfect or perfectly aligned before you make that move or try that thing- nothing is ever perfect. 

Perfection is the enemy of progress and action the antidote to fear – so if there is something you really love or want so very badly, make your move. It’s the areas that we truly love that we will find the greatest success, for regardless of whatever path you follow in life, there will be difficulties, there will be challenges and set backs – but loving what you’re doing, having some kind of passion or joy, will be what gets you through those tough times and out to the other side of success.

And that is my wish for us all – that in your life, you have something you are passionate about, that fills you with joy and that lights you up inside to help you carry through any difficult times that may arise. 

Until next time