Mindful, Happy Kids

Spooky Dolls in Latinx Folklore: Middle Grade Author Cassandra Ramos-Gomez

• Elisabeth Paige

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It’s the tail end of Latinx Heritage Month and we’re approaching Halloween and Los Dios de Los Noches the perfect time to highlight “Lost on Doll Island,” by Cassandra Ramos-Gomez. 

In this conversation, middle grade, Mexican American, horror author Cassandra talks about her writing journey, her debut novel and her future.  The book is spooky, creepy and loads of fun. You’ll find plenty of spooky dolls, spiders, and even Mexican magic.  

You can find information about Dr. Elisabeth Paige at www.mindfulhappykids.com.

Elisabeth Paige:

Hi, Cassandra Ramos Gomez. Welcome to the show.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Hi, hello. Happy to be here.

Elisabeth Paige:

I found lost on Doll Island to be spooky and creepy, and scary and lots of fun.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Lost us.

Elisabeth Paige:

I'm so glad. Do you wanna take a couple minutes to introduce yourself?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Sure. Um, I'm a Mexican American author, um, and so I like to center Latinx voices in my stories and I mostly focus on middle grades and, um, I write horror and speculative fiction. And outside of that, I'm a stay at home mom of two kids and, uh, we like to play video games together and make art. And I like to go thrifting and collect all sorts of things, um, and, you know, listen to all sorts of scary ooky podcasts and really lean into the horror stuff. So,

Elisabeth Paige:

so can you take us through your writing journey? Sure. Um, so I.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

It's, well, I think for most writers, we start as a kid, you know, you, you, I loved writing when I was a kid. I really, I wanted to be like, hurry at the spy. Like, I wanted to journal everything. Um, and I, so I've always been a little bit of a writer in that way, but I didn't actually start taking my writing career seriously or start a writing career until I got, um, until after my second child. Um. And that's when I had the kind of space and time to really think about what I wanted to do, if I wanted to go back to teaching, because I used to be a middle school teacher. Um, and so I decided to do what I've always wanted to do, which is to try my hand at writing. And so, um, that, that first novel I wrote, um, it wasn't very good and it was very short, but it did get me a mentorship with the, uh, author. Author, oh gosh, I can't think of the name of it. The, the a MM Author Mentorship. And then I also got the DB mentorship, which is the Diverse Voices Mentorship. And so those two mentorships, I was, I had both of them for, um, I think it was. I got the, I landed both those mentorships in that year and I was querying for a long time. And then it ended up being that my DV mentor, Sandra k Craftman, ended up being becoming an agent. And since she'd been working with me for a long time, um, I basically formally queried her even though it was pretty, like we'd already talked it through, but, um, formally queried her and I became her, her client. And then, um. Since then, we've worked on a few different things, but this is our debut novel. This is the one that, um, that made it through the submission process and we're here now.

Elisabeth Paige:

That's Sandra Auman? Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah, she's coming on the show I think in a month.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Yeah. She's amazing. She's great. She's always writing, always working, always promoting something like she's a powerhouse.

Elisabeth Paige:

Yeah. I'm excited. I like her book. Yeah. So why middle grade?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Um, so there's a lot of reasons. Um, I really gravitate towards middle grade, and that's one of them is I used to teach middle grades. I, I used to teach sixth grade, so I'm really familiar with that voice and those kids and that age group that's very, um, I'm very comfortable with that age group and talking to that group, but also a lot of, um, my favorite characters growing up in books. Um, so when I, back when I was a kid and reading a lot of the characters I remember the most. From my reading experience as a kid are from the stuff I read when I was a middle schooler. So my favorite book at the time when I was like around 11 was Ghost. I Happen and uh, by Richard Peck and I really liked. Characters from that time. And I loved that book and I read it over and over. I also liked Ann of Green Gables, loved that book, read it over and over. And so a lot of the books I read in middle school are the ones that stuck with me the longest, even no matter how many books I read after. Um, and so I really gravitate towards that, uh, that genre, that voice. And, um, so I, it was a good fit for me, I think.

Elisabeth Paige:

Why her? I'm sorry. Why her?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Why? Horror? Yeah. Um, so I really like scary stuff. I li well, not scary, scary stuff. I don't like gory stuff. I don't like super violent stuff. But I do like, like creepy crawly horror stuff, like the stuff that gives you the shivers. Um, and I've always liked that as a kid. Um, and as a grownup too, I really like listening to, um, scary stories, spooky stories, and it just kind of, um, I like that you have. When you're writing horror or when, when you're reading horror, you can, um, really just enjoy the feeling of being scared, but know that you're in a safe space. Like, I can enjoy the thrill of being scared, but if I get, like I can close the book at any time, I can put the computer away, I can. So, um, and I know that I'm safe, so I get to explore those, those big, those big feelings and big emotions, um, in a safe environment. And so I like. To be able to provide that for kids as well, especially in middle school.'cause they're all kind of experience, all sorts of emotions. And so, um, horror genre seems like a, a good place for them to explore their feelings and explore those emotions.

Elisabeth Paige:

Why do you think it's important to write about Latinx kids?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

So, for me personally, um. As a Mexican American, I grew up, uh, reading a lot of stories, um, with kids who did not look like me or did not sound like me or didn't come from families like mine. And I mean, I, I still love the stories, I love the characters, but it felt like I didn't see myself in any of the stories. Not really. Um, and so I feel like representation's important in that way to see yourself in the story. Um, and I think. It just, it's good to see yourself and the things that you read and consume and makes you feel. Seen and important a bit. And so I, I would like to provide that to children as well. Um,'cause I didn't have a lot of that growing up. And even when I did see it in media, like, um, magic School Bus did have a Hispanic child named Carlos, but he was like. Kind of like the comedic relief and always, there was always only like one character that was Latinx. If there was one, there was only one. Um, and so having them at the forefront as a protagonist and as the side characters and just like having them be the main characters is really something that I, I really wanted to do and was really important to me because I, I wanted to see that in books as a kid. And, um, it's nice to be able to provide that to others.

Elisabeth Paige:

Can you summarize Lost on Do Island without giving away too many spoilers?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Um, so Lost On Do Island is about a boy named Diego who goes to live in Mexico City with his, uh, aunts and uncle, um, sorry, aunt and uncle. Um, so he goes off to live with them in Mexico City while his parents are in the middle of a divorce. Um, while they work through that. And so he's really bummed out about having to be in Mexico City, having to be away from his friends in Texas, having to be, um, going to a new school as well. And at the same time, he also has like a broken arm. And so he is struggling with feelings of just not wanting to be where he is and the situations he's in and. Around that same time, he meets an old woman who tells him that about a doll, a magic wish doll on that he can find on Doll Island. And so he learns about this wish doll, and as soon as he hears about it, he's like, this is it. This is my ticket outta here. This is how I'm gonna fix everything. I'm gonna find this doll. And as luck would have it, his um, field trip, his school field trip is planned to go to. Along the so canal. So he is like, all right, this is it. This is my sign. It's meant to be. I'm gonna find that wish doll and I'm gonna fix all my problems and go back to the way things were. And of course, you know, things don't go quite that easily. And so that's, you know, where the plot of the book takes place.

Elisabeth Paige:

It is scary as hell. That's lots of stuff.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Thank you. I have

Elisabeth Paige:

to say, one of the things, there are clowns that are creepy.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Mm-hmm.

Elisabeth Paige:

And dolls that are creepy.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Yeah. Yeah.

Elisabeth Paige:

And spiders that are creepy. Yeah. And other than clowns, your book has all of.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Yeah, I, I think, um, the closest thing we have to a clown is like a clown faced doll at one point. I think she's like painted like, like a little clown doll, um, at one point in the book. But yeah, it did. We do have a lot of clown, not a lot of clowns. We have a lot of dolls. Lots of dolls. And we do have the spider as well. Big creepy spider.

Elisabeth Paige:

A big creepy spider. Yeah. Why did you choose Mexico City?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Um, so geographically, Mexico City, um, it had to be a Mexico City because I had chosen Doll Island. That was the inspiration was the act, the real doll island, uh, along the Somo canals. It's not called Doll Island, it's called mca. It's a real place. It, and, um, it is covered in dolls and it is, um. It has, uh, its own local lore. Um, and it's the lore that's in the book is pretty much what the lore is in real life, is that a man, um, found a bunch of these do, well, he, it, the lore is, or the legend is that he found a dead girl and the canals. And then the next day he found a doll in the canals. Um, and he assumed it was the, the girls. And so he put it up as a tribute to her. From there on out. Every time he found a doll, he would hang it up around the island and he became kind of obsessive about it. And so that's why the island is now covered in dolls. Um, and whether or not that actually happened, um, is not verified. Like they don't know. There's no news clippings or any, anything that has like the girl's name or the anything that says about a murder or anything. But the man did actually live there and he's real, and the dolls are there and it is, um, now a tourist destination. So. Because I wanted the story to be based there. And that's in, you know, in Mexico City. Um, that's why it takes place there.

Elisabeth Paige:

Is there a wish doll in the folklore? In the real

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

folklore? No, there's not there. I mean, there is the original doll that is there, but that's not the wish. Doll is like a complete invention. It's a fiction. Why dolls? Um, I'll say like, why not? But because they're, they're creepy. Um, a lot of people, like, a lot of people find them super creepy. Um, uh, they, I think it has to do with the fact that, you know, our brains are programmed to seek out faces, and so when you do see a face, you expect. The item to react like a human and it doesn't. Um, and so it's kind of the uncanny valley effect. And so I think that's why dolls are creepy. But I, I actually really like dolls. I have a lot of little dolls. Um, not, not a lot, but I do like to have them. Um, but um, yeah, I think it's the c creep factor, the, the fact that a lot of people find them unsettling. And so I linked into that.

Elisabeth Paige:

What is unique about Latinx Magic? So,

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Latinx Magic, at least within my book, uh, the magical systems are all very much based on ria or the idea of, uh, it's basically just Mexican witchcraft. And so it's very like herbal based. It's all very like based in, um, plant and herbs and just whatever they can find. And then a lot of it has to do. Um, with nature. And I also tried to link it into Aztec culture and Aztec symbolism and bring that in. Um, which I don't know if that's something that's actually done in real bru yet, but I was like, oh, why not? Let's bring in some Aztec history and some AIC symbols. And I also, um, I think also in real life, um, real. Mexican witchcraft usually does have a sense of some religion to it, instead of like an, I feel like in American culture, witchcraft and religion or, or at least in, uh, Western religion, it's very separate, two very separate things. Um, but in Mexican culture. Um, I feel like people who practice sometimes like that, there's a really big overlap of, um, religious ideas and Catholic economic Catholic ideas kind of mixed in with all of that. And like the symbolism and iconography, it all overlaps. And so there'll be, you know, praying to saints and stuff like that while also practicing witchcraft. And so it's, it's all very interwoven. Um, so that's, I think that's the difference in. In real life, but in the book I mostly focus on just the more natural elements and uh, yeah, and the Aztec stuff as well. Aztec symbols.

Elisabeth Paige:

Why did you include divorce as a theme?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

That's a good question because I feel like, um, it had any event. It's one of those things that you're writing about and you didn't even realize. It's a thing until people ask you about it later and you're like, oh, I guess that is weird that I included that. But, um, divorce is something I think a lot of kids go through. Um, and it's, it's a reality that many kids have to face or live, live with. I, I myself also. Um, my parents divorced when I was in middle school as well. Um, so that, that was a very common thing also for kids that at that age, I remember a lot of kids' parents were getting divorced around the same time, um, if they weren't already divorced. So, and you don't see a lot of that represent representation in books. So if the parents being split, it's usually like a fam normal family union, uh, unit or a, a more traditional family unit. Um, and so having them be in the middle of this divorce, uh. Felt, um, well it felt like natural, like not natural, but it felt, um, what's the word I'm looking for? It, it felt more realistic. Like this is something that a normal middle schooler could be going through that a lot of middle schoolers go through. Um, and I think that that's, um, important in certain books, like real life drama that kids encounter our day-to-day. Um, and the ways they deal with it is, you know, it's important for kids to see that.

Elisabeth Paige:

Okay, let's go back to you. Okay. What's on your front burner?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

So, um, I just finished, um, the sequel to this book. Um, oh, great. At least the, it's the first draft anyway. I still have to, um, probably will have to edit it many times still. But it's gonna be called Don't Wake Up and it's gonna focus on. Google, which is like the Mexican boogeyman. So it'll still, uh, have a lot of Mexican folklore in it. Um, so that'll be fun if you know when that comes out next fall. And then in the meantime,

Elisabeth Paige:

I'll have to bring you back on for next Halloween.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

That'll be fun. And then in the meantime, I'm just working on, um, promoting this book and, um, trying to get ahead on other middle grades ideas that I have. So that in case there's not a third one of, of this series, I have something else,

Elisabeth Paige:

so,

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

great. That's all

Elisabeth Paige:

for now. What about, what would you tell your middle grade self oof?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Um, well, I think the really cliche thing to tell your middle grade self, but it's true, is, uh, things do get better. Things improve, just stick with what you're doing. Um, but I think also I would tell her that the things that make her weird or that make her stand out or feel other, those are the things that make her who she is and those are the things that are gonna get her ahead. Life. And so really lean into those things. Like it's not just quirks. Those are the things that make you great, lean into those things. Um, and I would definitely tell her to start writing more, write more and write earlier. But, um, that's more of me wanting to have started earlier.

Elisabeth Paige:

What about budding authors?

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Um, letting authors. I feel like there's so much advice out there that can be useful, but really it's never too late. It's never too late to get started. I feel like a lot of times you can compare yourself to other writers and you see there's a lot of really young authors who come right out of, you know, their graduate school programs and they're just like, they get booked deals right away. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you can't just because you don't have an MFA or um. If you're not following the traditional path, that doesn't mean that's not gonna happen for you. You just have to be persistent. Stick with it. Um, and it can happen. It, it can happen for you. You just have to keep, keep at it. And I think also the other thing I would say is, um, is keep, um. Keep writing, but not necessarily every day. Just'cause you don't write every day doesn't mean you're not a writer, but you know, just keep at it. Just keep improving your craft every way you can. Apply to mentorships and go to writing groups. Um, improve your craft as much as you can.

Elisabeth Paige:

L DTO and important hospital holiday for you. Um,

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

yeah, UMS is actually one of those holidays that has, you know, because of the movie Cocoa, it's become a lot bigger and a lot more people are aware of it. But when I was growing up, I did not celebrate it at all. I wasn't even really super aware of it. Um, but now, um, that I've had more people pass away in our family, um. I think I would like to, especially, and this is gonna sound kind of silly, but last year my dog passed away and she'd been with us for 17 years. And so since it was right around, um, it was October 4th, so it was right before. All of the, the season of, um, Los Martos, which was, uh, in November. So I was like, let's go ahead and make her friend. I made her a little offend for Lily, especially for my kids because I wanted them to have that transition of, you know, an understanding that she's passed. Um,'cause they were, um, they're six and nine years old now, but at the time they were five and eight. And so, and death, even though it's a concept they were familiar with, it wasn't like, um, it wasn't something that experienced that closely yet. So I wanted us to honor our little dog. Um, but now that we've had that offend up for her, I was like, okay, when we have had other people pass away, um, my, my husband's grandfather recently passed away and um, I also have photos from my, uh, from my grandmother's that passed a long time ago. So I was like, maybe we can actually do like a formal for them and that way we can start doing that for my kids so they could kind of have more of a, of a. More of a chance to experience their own culture and heritage in their, in the home. I mean, we, we live in an area where they see that, but I think it'd be, it'd be nice to do that in our house as well. How about Halloween? Oh, Halloween's huge. We love Halloween and we have at least two different events that we go to. Um,'cause the university where my husband works, has their own Halloween event that we go to, and that's a major thing we do every year. And then we also do the school. The children's school has their own thing as well, so we go to that and. If we have enough energy, then we will do the door to door trick, the door to door trick or treating as well. But usually by that point, we've done enough events and we've dressed up enough to where we feel like we, we've experienced it, um, but we do enjoy it. My, my little one is already started decorating the house for Halloween. Um, and, uh, he's, today he was putting up all sorts of stuff around the house, a little skeleton and things. He's drawn. So Halloween's big here. We love it. Where are you gonna be this year? This year, my boys are going to be dragons, so one of them is gonna be a Minecraft dragon and the other one's gonna be toothless. And so I am going to be a knight of sorts or like a knight princess. I haven't figured out the costume, but I was, I want a sword and I think I'll be happy with that. Fun. Is there anything we missed? Um, I don't think so. I think we touched on just about. Everything. Um, feel free to ask anything else if you'd like, but I'm,

Elisabeth Paige:

you know,

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

I feel

Elisabeth Paige:

good. Well, I'd like to have you back when you do your SQL

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

i'd. I'd love that too. That'd be really great. Um, and, um, hopefully by then we'll have, I'll have bigger concepts to, or more to tell you about it at least.

Elisabeth Paige:

Cool.

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

Also, I mean, or you could focus on the more scary elements of the book too. I mean, whatever, whatever is more conducive to conversation.

Elisabeth Paige:

Cool. You very much. No problem. And

Cassandra Ramos-Gomez:

thank you for having me,

Elisabeth Paige:

and have a great Halloween. You too. All right. Take care. Thank you. Bye.