SPEAKER_01 0:30

Welcome back, everyone. Expanding the zone here, season eight, uh, Shane Combs, alongside Matt Combs. And uh, if I'm counting them up uh correctly, Matt, I think it's episode 78 to get us started here in our eighth season. Uh, it's been a lot of fun. Uh I guess maybe in an introduction for people that aren't familiar with what we do. Um, this is kind of maybe a summary on what it is and why we do it uh for the longest time. Well, maybe maybe I should back up here a little bit, for about 30 years now a piece, uh, you and I have been involved in education, coaching, leadership, a lot of different things. And we've always been fascinated by some of those topics, obviously big sports fans as well. So you combine them together, and uh you and I just kind of like to take what's relevant in the in the world of sports, in the world of leadership, uh kind of talk about a little bit, maybe have some entertainment maybe from a sports talk perspective, but then always tie it into some sort of leadership uh that uh that maybe um you and I can use as professional development back and forth with each other. And then obviously people who uh are watching this here on YouTube or getting us on your podcast app and listening to us uh while you work out or while you're driving uh to and from work, uh obviously appreciate any way you're supporting the show. Make sure you subscribe so you get us uh all season long. Again, if you like what you're watching or seeing there, keep in mind if you're new to us, this is our 78 show, so there's plenty of content that goes back uh over the years. But you know, Matt as we get into season eight, um anything to add to that in terms of you know why we do it, what it is, how you'd describe it to someone who's maybe new to us.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah, you know, I think you described it well, you know, we started this a long time ago. It was back, I want to say right around the time of the whole COVID stuff going on, and we were we were podcasting. And of course, you you know, you were involved in a podcast uh or a website before that, which had a podcast with the SVC Sports Zone. And uh, you know, it's just something we've kind of rolled with uh every year. We usually take some time off, which we just did uh over the winter. We usually do this in the spring and summer. So yeah, you know, I think sometimes we have fun with it. We just have some interesting topics, we try to tie in leadership stuff. Um, you know, you're really the uh the guru when it comes to the media stuff, and I just get kind of get to come on here and talk a little bit, but uh, but no, it's it's been a it's been a fun ride all these seasons uh of the show. We hope we have another good season.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, no question. As you said, over a decade there, 13 total years, I think, website and podcasting with SVC Sports Zone. That's kind of where the name expanding the zone had come from. We just wanted to expand from that. Obviously, doing a lot of work now with uh SOSA as I've stepped away from coaching after 30 years. Um so I've been able to dive into a lot of stuff that I haven't been able to do, particularly this time of year, really, really enjoyed that. Um so we're excited to get started. So as I said, we always try to take a topic that's a little bit relatable or or or specific to the time that that that we're in. And obviously, as we're recording this here late March, this has always been one of my real favorite times of year. I mean, uh I I guess for a show title, that's why I would call it it's the most wonderful time of the year. I know a lot of times we think of that as you know, a little bit more in December and and uh getting ready for Santa Claus, but I I've always felt like if you're a big sports fan that uh this certainly rivals a Christmas Day type of thing when when you think of uh you're at the end of high school basketball, you get some of that tournament, you get March Madness, you get Reds Opening Day, the Masters coming up. There's a lot of different things that that that are kind of going on. And uh it's just a it's just a really cool time of year. And throughout the evening, we'll break that down in a little bit of uh different categories, but maybe an opening thought, Matt, and just in terms of if you like sports uh at all, that there's gotta be at least one thing, if not multiple things, that really overlap around this time of year. Is that just me or or do you do you follow me there?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

No, for sure. You know, our good friend Nick Easterday uh always talks about March being the best month of the year, and uh it is, but in his case, it's for March Madness, and that's I think all of us feel that way, but we also get to be excited too, as baseball guys, Shane. Like took we're doing we're we're recording this right here on the eve of opening day uh for our for our favorite team, uh Cincinnati Reds. Um you know, we get to we get to have optimism for just the seconds. Yeah, it usually lasts through about the early May before that goes away if you're a Reds fan. Uh you know, uh I'm reminded of when you were a kid one time and and and and uh you were just starting off at Little League and somebody asked what kind of season you're having. You said we're undefeated. And they said, Oh, really? What's your record? Well, we haven't played yet. We're undefeated. That's kind of the life of a Reds fan. You know, you have some early optimism. But no, I mean the the March Madness is awesome. The high school stuff that you know, the high school tournaments that just wrapped up on the boys' side. Um, you know, and and those were especially fun for for me this year with with the you know Uniota and the success that we had, girls and boys in the tournament. And um you're getting ready for the masters in April. And you know, it's just the the weather's you know, at least at times, starting to warm up outside. So it's just it's kind of an exciting sports time for sure. There's there's something for everybody right now at this time of March.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Well, there's no question about it. You know, as as we as we start to break this down, I want to put the show into three categories tonight. I I want to just go with a real simple approach of of uh beginning, middle, and end. And I think as as as you did a good job describing there, I think what happens at this time of year, there's there's certain things that are new beginnings, there's certain things that are kind of in the middle, and then there's certain things that are coming to an end. And I think when all of those things combine, you get a lot of different types of emotions. And I think anytime you're involved in education, anytime you're involved in in leadership of any kind, especially coaching, I think it's important just to kind of go through some of these things and remind yourself of something. I want to I want to start at the beginning. You you talked about a word there that I actually had in my notes is optimism. Uh when when you talk about beginning, you talk about new. And you know, you mention Reds opening day, and and you're right. I mean, look, man, when no matter no matter what the system, like this year, I actually I say this, I actually think the Reds have a chance to be pretty good, but I think I take that every year, you know. But um, even through an injury here or to Hunter Green, or you you start to talk yourself into, okay, well, they'll put this young teach uh this young pitcher in here, and then they'll they'll they'll get something out of them, and then you know, Hunter Green will get healthy, he'll be back at the all-star break. You know what I'm saying? Like no matter what the adversity is, when you haven't played yet, like the young me saying we're undefeated, right? When you haven't played yet, you almost can look out in front and you almost can be as positive as possible in terms of I believe this can be great, I believe this can happen. Um, whereas you know, like when when you're when you're what we'll talk about the other parts of the season, some of these other sports are maybe finishing up or they're in the middle of the grind or whatever it may be. That's a different feeling. But when you hear new, when you hear optimism, what what is it about the beginning in leadership that brings that excitement? Maybe it's it's it's the it's open house and it's almost the first day of school. Maybe it's that that you know you're going through conditioning, you're almost the first practice, or you practice through the preseason, it's almost the first game. What is it about the newness you think that just brings optimism and excitement? That that's kind of a fun time to be a part of it like when when when you when you kind of have the juices going and you can't wait to get going.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Yeah, you know, I think the optimism is is important. I mean, it's it's you know, we can sit here and say the old saying hope can't be a strategy, right? Hope isn't a strategy, but I think hope's important. I think that um it can't be your only uh tool, right? Because there eventually you have to, if you're a sports team or you're a school or you're an organization, whatever, you eventually have to put some sort of plan in action. But but I think at the beginning of it, like you said, that hope, that optimism, I think because I think it brings energy, you know, and you have to have that energy to go execute the plan. I think, I don't know, I think energy is easier to come by right at the beginning. I think if you look at like right now, say spring sports teams in high school, you know, you've been going through a little bit of a grind with indoor practices, right? For baseball or softball, the weather's bad, even track at times, having to run the hallways of your school or whatever. And now you start to, you know, you start to see light at the end of the tunnel, like, hey, we're actually going to get to play some games out on a field, and and the maybe the weather won't be too bad. And you know, so you have a little bit of that right now, you know, early on. I so I think, I think the beginning, that optimism you're talking about, if nothing else, just provides a little bit of energy and spark that you need to sort of get things going.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah, with the with the fresh start, you know, a lot of times I was just joking with someone the other day at school, you know, the the fresh start, uh uh maybe we call it the honeymoon period, right? Where we talk about like you're you're just going through some workouts, you're going through some practices, you're not really passing out um playing time just yet. You're not really passing out an official lineup card to use a baseball softball terminology. Uh, coach isn't an idiot yet, right? Coaches that hit me at the wrong spot of the order, or I'm not the third pitcher instead of the first pitcher. Yeah, it's one of those. I'm sure in basketball, a lot of times, I'm sure you play kids more often in the summer than you do in game 15. You know what I mean, in terms of their roles or whatever. So, like every everything's just a little bit different early on. As I transition that to the middle, and we'll kind of go in between the new and the middle here. What what is the advice for coaches and leaders that can make that transition a little bit better? Because here's why I say this when we go from that fresh start, before you know it, you get into the grind, right? You're excited to get started, but then you get started and seasons can get long. You said something to me, and and I guess technically you were more in almost in the postseason when we were talking. You said something to me a couple weeks back here where you said, Well, you know, Shane, we just finished our 72nd practice of the year. And it caught me off guard for a minute. I'm thinking, oh my goodness, did he say 72? You know what I mean? Like that that's incredible when you think of that's not even counting summer workouts, open gyms, weightlifting, what whatever they may be. So there's certainly a grind to come as you transition from the newness, knowing that the grind is out there, and knowing that that middle and then eventually the end that we're going to talk about is out there. Do you have any advice for for young leaders or just even experienced leaders that maybe need to just uh be reminded to think about a little bit that that can make that transition a little bit better?

SPEAKER_00 11:46

Well, I think a couple things come to mind, you know, that that I think successful teams do, um you know, especially at the high school level, let's face it, you I think it's gotta be fun. I think you have to keep it fun. I I know that sounds a little cheesy or a little bit elementary schoolish, right? But like, you know, yeah, there there has to be a certain level of commitment and hard work, but it's also got to be enjoyable. And I think at the beginning, like we talked about, um, you know, it's automatically maybe a little bit more fun and enjoyable because it's new and you're excited about it or whatever. And I think it's during those times where hopefully, you know, as a as a leader, you can build some relationships, right, with people. Um, you get to know people a little bit, um, you keep it loose, you have a little bit of fun, you know, because you do know, like you said, that grind is coming, and you do know that there's a certain level of disappointment that's on its way, too. Um, like you said, whether it be maybe somebody's role on the team, maybe somebody's quote unquote playing time. Um, you know, maybe it's it's some losses that are gonna happen that's gonna make it hard. Uh, maybe, maybe you're maybe you end up um you know, as a Reds fan, right? Maybe you end up not as successful as you thought you were gonna be at the beginning. And and so I think that you know there's gonna be a certain level of adversity or challenge, like you say, as you get into the middle of this thing and toward the end. So I think you know, you you have to figure out a way early on, I think, to to to make it enjoyable, to get people excited about it, and to hopefully develop some relationships that will help weather that storm you know as you go a little further. Like you talked about the 72 practices. Well, obviously, practice at the beginning of the year doesn't look like practice at the end of the year, right? And and you know, you do some things differently along the way. You know, by the end of the season, we were practicing an hour, you know, at the beginning of the year. Sometimes you're going a little bit longer than that. I know spring sports practices can be really long at times, you know, trying to pick and choose some days where you have good weather or whatever. And so, so, you know, there's different, like you say, there's different levels or different stages to it, but I think the main thing is the main thing is to anticipate or predict, hey, we're going to have this grind eventually. How do we prepare for that? Where do I want our mindset to be? Where do I want, you know, our attitude and mindset to be a month from now when it's coming? Because it is coming.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Matt, I think one thing you really need to share with people, I know I've learned a lot from watching you over the years, and I've tried to uh apply it to some of my coaching and some of my overall leadership in terms of you can't fake it, right? You gotta be honest, you gotta uh have honesty, uh, that communication has to be a part of it or whatever. But I think you'd be the first to admit, and I think you could really share a really cool insight here if I kind of put you on the spot. 20, you know, a 27-year-old Matt Combs and a 47-year-old Matt Combs and so forth went about it probably a little bit differently, didn't you? Like, like what is it about the about being true to who you are, but having great communication, never lying to people, have having having everything out there in front to where everybody kind of knows the expectation, knows the standard, uh, uh, and and knows how uh what you're trying to do and how you're gonna get there. I'm sure that's uh evolved for you quite a bit over the course of a long career. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah, I mean, I think some of that happens organically just as you age or whatever and you mellow out, or you have kids of your own and you have, you know, life happens to you, right? And it changes your attitude. Um you know, obviously, like you said, when you're younger and and you're full of energy and you uh haven't experienced as many things, um, you know, that there's probably parts of that 27-year-old you talk about I'd like to have back, and there's parts that I'm glad to leave behind, you know. But it it's but I think that again, you you mentioned the word authentic. I think it's important to be who you are, um, you know, but but at the same time, I think being who you are is not an excuse to just um say and do whatever. There's still, you know, I think there's still a right and wrong way to do it, right? But I think there has to be a level of authenticity that your people see because, you know, I don't think anybody really wants to be around somebody who's fake. I, you know, I just don't. I just think that people see through that. People don't really want to be associated with that. Being fake isn't magnetic. Um, I just don't think it draws people into what you're trying to do. So um, you know, good or bad, I guess you you have to be yourself. But hopefully, along with being yourself, there's a little bit of a filter there and and a way to kind of do things the right way. But yeah, I I think the authenticity goes a long way.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

You know, Matt, the other thing I had in my notes here, the culture changes quite a bit in a 30-year career. I think that's safe to say, right? And I think, you know, we you and I have have done some shows on the NIL and you and I have started to break down some of our favorite coaches. And I know some of my favorite basketball coaches have have uh started to step aside here over the last handful of years, you know, maybe a Jay Wright or Bill Self's going to retire. Um, obviously Roy Williams is is is you know still very close to the Carolina program, but he he you know stepped away. Um the name escapes me, uh the Virginia coach, Bennett. You know, he he was outstanding. But but other coaches continue to thrive and they're able to adjust and they're able to go. And I'm not saying one's better than the other. I know, I know, just to share a personal thought here, like with me, I I coached high school baseball for 30 straight springs, 20 as a head coach. And I'll be honest, a lot of people said, you know, I'll get that question a lot this time of year, do you miss it? And and I'll be and I'll say not necessarily. Uh I think I think I kind of knew it was time. Uh I was really excited, uh, the direction that the program was going to get to go, uh, the hire that they made there with Trent Mettler at Paint Valley, a former player of mine, young, young, energetic guy's gonna do an awesome, awesome job. So I was I was happy for that. But but if I'm sharing the most personal moment of that is I felt in the last two or three years, some of the things that I had thrived at for decades, I was starting to lose the ability to stay true to who I am and what I was trying to do and still relay some of those standards and some of those different things. Do you have a thought on that? Like, I I think I think that's different for everybody. Um you have a thought on on how you've had to adapt over time when you think of these new beginnings. I mean, every single year is a new fresh start for the team you're coaching, even though it might be year 30 for you, it's year what, one, two, three, or four for your most experienced player. So it's always a newness. Um, and again, knowing that middle grind is coming, everything has to be a start over. Do you find that that takes a special energy, effort, experience? What is it there that allows coaches to have that longevity?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah, it's I think I you know, I've always I've always been intrigued, I guess, by longevity of coaches because I think that longevity, if you think about it, it involves so much. I got to talking about this recently with somebody, and and when you start thinking about longevity of a coach, right? Think about all that goes into that happening. And, you know, one, it's it's things that are beyond um the coach's control, right? Like the good Lord gives you health to do it, right? Your family accepts you doing it. The school you work for um gives you an opportunity to continue to do it, right? I mean, how hard is it nowadays for somebody to stay at the same school for a long, long time without, you know, having a period where maybe they're not successful enough and the school wants to make a change or the wrong person gets upset with you, right? And the next thing you know, um, you know, you're you're you're you're not doing it anymore. You're out. Um and then and then beyond all that, beyond all that stuff we just talked about, then it comes down to the personal part of it, you just said, of wanting to do it that long, having the energy to do it that long, um, being willing to adapt and adjust to do it that long. I mean, if you think about coaches who who coach over the course of you know three or four decades, think about the way coaching in itself has changed, right? I mean, I just was talking to a a colleague today about how much education has changed since I started as a teacher, you know, 26, 7, 8 years ago, whatever it was now. And and you know, and and you can you can attest to this too. Teaching and administrating at a school now is nowhere close to what it was back then. It's just a different animal. And and look, you can sit here and say, as old guys, we can say we liked it better the way it was, whatever. And you know, you can argue that all day long. But I don't think what you can't argue really is that if you're unable to adapt and evolve and adjust a little bit, you're unable to have longevity because you're going to have to change some, you're going to have to roll with the punches something. Does that mean you have to sacrifice every non-negotiable you stand? No, it doesn't. I mean, I think I still think there's a way to do it. I think there's a way to stand up for what you believe in. But let's face it, you know, your approach may have to be a little different in 2026 than it was in 1999. You know, it's just it's just when when I started as a head coach. So, you know, it it's uh there's certainly changes and and uh adaptation that has to evolve there with a coach. And I think the coaches who can do that are the coaches that

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Matt, I had one more thing on the middle. Um I I I think this is important. You know, like if I if I was looking at it from an administrative standpoint, I always felt like a staff meeting at the beginning of the year, staff meeting at the end of the year, those are a little bit easier, right? Um everyone's had three months off, they're ready to get started, they're they're kind of willing to give the new school year that newness we just talked about a second ago, chance, as you get to to the very uh, you know, summers and sight, and you can get them to the finish line. Some of the hardest things to do is motivate your staff and students, maybe in that and and in some of that grind that's you know kind of what we're coming out of almost now, right, right around the uh we say March is the greatest month of the year in sports. I don't know if if educators would agree with you. You know, it is kind of the dog days of the spring, the weather's back and forth, you got snow days, pressure of the state tests right around the corner here in April, got a lot of testing days coming up, and and it's a grind, it's a little bit in the middle. And sometimes it's staying the course. And in coaching, one of the things I used to cringe when kids would say, because sometimes kids think they're coming up to you and saying things that they think you want to hear when in reality they're kind of telling on themselves in terms of their lack of competitiveness and their attitude. You know, you'll you'll get that kid come up to you. Let's say you're a basketball coach and football season's not going, well, hey coach, I can't I can't wait for basketball. Man, football's just uh I can't wait for basketball. The kid who says that to the basketball coach, there's a good chance the first time you lose three out of four in the winter, guess what they're going to tell on their baseball coach. You know what I'm saying? Like it's one of those things where I cringe at those things, but again, the middle grind is hard. You talked about adversity, it's certainly to come. Even when you have a great year, like you like I'll use your guys' team this year's example. You guys ended up, you know, when you look at the the when you step back and just look at your whole year, you had an incredible year. You had a lot of you had a lot of weird dynamics, a lot of up and downs, a lot of tricky things you had to navigate through. Obviously, teams that didn't win as much had even more so. But what what is it in the middle of the year that that you turn to to try to keep things going? When you when you can kind of sense that, man, my my coaching staff is getting frustrated here. The kids are getting frustrated. I sense a little uh I sense a little lack of effort. I sense a little bit where maybe they're not keeping their eye on the big prize there. I'm sure you've gone through that over over the years in leadership. What do you find yourself turning to? Uh what what could advice could you give to a leader there that uh that maybe could give them a nugget to to kind of maybe utilize in the future?

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Yeah, again, I think I think that starts, you know, with the culture that you build. And you know, unfortunately, if your culture is not in place by the time that that adversity strikes, you're probably in in some trouble, right? It's gonna be extremely hard. I think that you know, the years that I've had that, unfortunately, this wasn't one of those, because I had a really just mature, good group of kids that sort of just you know really were composed in those moments and did the right thing. But I've had years where it wasn't that way. You know, you coach long enough, you're gonna have all different types of personalities and teams, right? But like I think in those situations, I think it's important for the leader to be vulnerable in that situation, just to be honest, just to say, hey, listen, I feel it too, right? I mean, we all feel the frustration. It's hard, nobody likes, you know, not being successful, but but where do we go from here, right? How do we adjust it? How do we, you know, how do we get better? I, you know, it's funny because you were talking about how kids, you know, in the fall will tell their winter coach, I can't wait, you know, at the first sign of adversity, right? You're looking for the next thing. And and I can remember my oldest son saying to me one time, like, Dad, you know, when does when does school get a little bit easier? You know, when does it when does it start to get easier? Does it get easier in high school? Does it get in college? Does it get easier? And and and I can remember using um, I actually stole this from um Duke's women's coach, uh Carol Olson, is that her name? Uh the the women's coach at Duke. Um, she one time I saw a little video clip, maybe you've seen it, where she was talking to her team and she's like, Things never get easier. You just handle hard better. That's what she was talking to her her women about, you know, and I thought that was awesome. You know, things don't get easier, it's not going to get easier. It's actually gonna get tougher as we go, but you just handle tough things better as you mature and get better, you know. And and I think that's important. I think that's important in those moments you're talking about of um, you know, when you hit a skid or whatever and things aren't going well. And look, none of us want that, right? I mean, like it'd be better just to win every game and and let the good times roll, but but we're gonna have those situations sometimes where where you you you have that, and and I think as a team, you have to handle the hard things better in those situations. So um I think a lot of that's just the culture that you build early on and then the trust that hopefully you have with one another just to talk through those things and work through all.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

You know, Matt, as you as you transition into the to the end, so to speak, I think the word that comes to my mind that that makes it exciting or or the or the what draws everybody's attention to it's the urgency. You know, when when you think of March, think of the theme of our show here tonight. March madness. What makes it so great? Well, it makes it great that obviously the basketball junkies love it, like like us, but like anybody can fill out their bracket, anybody can follow some scores, right? Anyone can get into the tournament, anyone can like um you know have it on at work or have it on at school or or stay up all night and watch games and and and it's the it's the one and done, it's the survive in advance, all of these cliche things that we've heard that have been associated with with March Madness. And I think there's something really final to that. Like if I was to use some other sports analogies, maybe maybe we talk about the world baseball classic, how people got into that and it was incredible hanging on every pitch. Well, why are they hanging on every pitch? As well, because maybe you could lose once in pool play, maybe. Um, if so, you better not lose by very much. Uh, but then once you get into the tournament, it's again, it's one and done. One one swing of the bat, one pitch, one air. Anything like that makes it so final. And I can relate to that from you know the the excitement of tournament baseball and so forth. But I guess the final becomes such a reality for the senior group or for that particular team. Like that particular team will never be together again. You know, it it's there there's something about the urgency that goes into that. That that's where I want to start here because it's hard to create that. Let's face it, it's hard to create that college basketball excitement in November that you do in March, right? Same way in high school basketball. You might be in a big league game uh in December or January that could certainly be huge, but I don't know that that's that's going to be the same as playing in a district championship. You see what I'm saying? Like there's just certain things you can't create without the moment itself being there with all the factors to create it. Do you follow what I'm saying there?

SPEAKER_00 29:27

You know, I do, and I think now I will say this, you know, before I before I get into exactly what you're talking about there. I think with urgency, though, I think one of the tricks to being successful as a as a group, right, as a team, organization, whatever, is to somehow to somehow create that urgency, at least the best you can throughout the whole process. What I mean by that is this, like, like so, you know, we not to get too much into our team, but we have what we call our core four, which is sort of our you know, standards for our culture, right? And one of them is actually urgency. And what we mean by that, or what I mean by that, is is that that never taking a playoff, getting better every day, right? Always having a sense of urgency. And one of the things that we talk about, because it's kind of a pet peeve of mine, is the quote unquote big game, right? People talk about, well, this is a big game. Well, well, we kept scoring that other game. Why wasn't that a big game? You know what I'm saying? Like, like, I mean, I don't and and and you know, to me, it's kind of like you'll hear people say, Well, is this a must-win situation? Well, yeah, you know, they're all must-win. I mean, like, they're not life and death, right? But I'm saying, like, it's a must-win. And if we don't win, the next one's a must-win. I mean, it's just everything's a must-win. I mean, if you're a competitor, right, there's got to be that sense of urgency. Now, you're right. We can't, human nature doesn't allow us, honestly, to make every game a district championship, like you just said, or to make every game a Sweet 16 March Madness game. Um for baseball players, right, who play 162-game schedule. Not every game's going to be the World Baseball Classic where it's a single elimination, right, down the stretch. But but I think, don't you think like the best teams have a certain level of urgency all the time, you know, that that that sort of I guess motivate them to constantly be at a high level.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Well, I think I think the great Derek Jeter talked about that uh quite a bit. Remember, we did a series on what was this the the series they called, didn't they call it like the captain or something? Yeah, yeah. That was awesome. That was awesome. Uh and I'm not the biggest Yankees fan, but um certainly love Derek Jeter and so forth. And and we've we've witnessed better, as good as he was, we've witnessed better players than Derek Jeter throughout our life. But you certainly can make the argument that no one's performed better in the clutch than than that guy, right? In terms of a winner. And he talked a lot about what you're saying. I think there's really something good in leadership that you're talking about there. He talked about that every single rep that he tried to take in spring training, opening day, you know, June, whenever he was taking it, he tried to make it the most intense rep that he possibly could, so that when he would get in those big moments, he didn't feel different. He's like, now when I step back now as an analyst, he says, and I watch people or I watch a game or whatever, I can sense big moments, right? I can sense, man, this moment's a little bit bigger than the other one I was just analyzing or whatnot. But he's like, as a player, he's like my heart rate, my the way I approached it, the way I performed. I truly felt like I was calm in a moment to where I could still yeah every every rep, as you said, was was really, really important. You also said something there that's interesting. I think sports like football, I think one thing that makes football so popular, other than some of the entertainment value and some of the the different things like betting and different things and and social aspects and that that that have held. One thing that makes football so popular is there's not very much of it. Right. Right? Like your favorite team throughout the year plays, you know, growing up 16, now 17 NFL games, but they're not playing 82, like in the NBA. They're not playing certainly you just said 162. They're not they're not playing four rounds of a series, like you know, I mean, it's hard to upset someone in the NBA. You you gotta beat them like four out of seven. Like I was not beating Florida four out of seven, right? But Iowa beat Florida on one night, you know what I mean? Like and that was kind of fun to watch. Um but you but you you get what I'm saying? It's that it's that urgency and it's that one and done format, I think, that does add a little something to it. But but I think you're on to something there in terms of in the moment, the true competitor is can Iowa make it that way all year long so that when they're in that moment, you know, they're they're not they're they're the moment's not too big for them, I guess is what we say in sports. And I'm not saying Florida wasn't ready to play, but I think Florida's not the only team to ever have this happen to them. But don't you feel like in that game, Florida started to get a little tight? All of a sudden the crowd started to turn on them. You know what I mean? Like people people feel that sometimes in the arena. And look, I I don't I don't know what the perfect sauce is. That's why we have upsets. I'm not saying Florida did anything that hasn't happened to some great teams before, but you're right. Uh I think there's something special that separates a lot of programs, uh, their ability to uh to do that, or or what separates a Derek Jeter individually. That that that's certainly a skill that's just not made overnight.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

No, for sure. And you know what else, Shane? You mentioned that world baseball classic, not to shift gears on you here, but get to thinking one of the things that really intrigued me about that is, and and I, you know, uh I love baseball, but I haven't always watched that, right? And this year, my oldest son was into it, so we watched it together, and and like the the level of intensity, you know, of those guys when they're playing for something bigger than themselves. That's the thing that jumped out at me. Like, like sometimes I think in sports, to me, there's there's never been, there's always been nothing better, I guess, than being on a team, right? To really being a part of a team and really a team that cares about each other and wants to do well for each other. And when you have more to play for, so to speak, it becomes bigger, right? And I think that like all these major league players, they care about their teams that they play on, but like you said, they play 162 games. So there is a little bit, I'm sure, of pacing yourself to an extent. But like, you know, that the intensity you see in the World Series is what you saw the whole time in the World Baseball Classic, right? And it's like all of a sudden they're playing for their country. Um, they they they're playing for with guys from their country who have that same goal. You see it in other sports too, like take golf, right? I saw one time where I think it was Davis Love, you know, who had by the time he made his first Ryder Cup team, um had already won a major tournament. He was a successful player, and he said he'd never been more nervous than on the first T at a Ryder Cup. He thought he was going to throw up. And you're talking about a guy who played in the Masters, who played the U.S. Open, but all of a sudden, he's not playing for Davis Love anymore, right? He's playing for something bigger than himself. And if you think about anything you've ever done in your life, Shane, that involved the possibility of you letting somebody you care about down, right? A teammate, a family member, a friend, doesn't that add a lot of urgency to? You know what I mean? When when when you might let somebody down that you care about, and it's not just about you anymore, because when you let yourself down, you can sort of get over it, but it's a little bit harder when it when it's when it's bigger than you.

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Yeah, that that that's really well said, because you know, I I think that that's that's the that's what separates the team sports in terms of becoming a teammate and and and kind of sacrificing a little bit. Like I see so many great teams, and I do a lot of analyst work for SOSA, um, and and I had a chance to really follow some outstanding teams. And what I would find on those great teams is you'd have a lot of individuals that were probably sacrificing a little bit of their individual so that the team could be really, really good. You know, I mean you'd start to figure out to use a basketball analogy. Well, there's only one ball to go around. You know what I mean? Same way in volleyball, you might have the big time hitter, then you might have another team that has three or four hitters. Well, the setter can only put the ball out to one hitter at a time, you know. I mean, like it it's I I think that's true all the way, uh, all the way through. So um, yeah, I I think that that's really well said. Yeah, the last thing I would say on on the urgency step away and and look at it from a fan perspective for a second. And and you know, you and I don't always get a chance to do this at the at the high school level very much. I look forward to doing it a little bit this spring, but like you do see it through a little bit of a different perspective. I I have a tendency to always kind of see it through a coach's eye, but every now and then, especially in SOSA's, I got out and I started to watch a lot of different teams and a lot of different things. I I was fascinated by the fans' reactions, I was fascinated by the way sports can bring cultures together. And John Bruce and I were talking on SOS overtime in our final winner show that's uh you can find over on the SOSA YouTube page. I really enjoyed doing that with John. We were talking about how the fans have certain reactions. And if I'm being honest, Matt, some some fans have become spoiled, some fan bases have become spoiled. You're almost a victim of success, right? It almost becomes assumed that winning's hard. I mean, winning is really, really hard. I always say if winning wasn't so hard, everybody do it. Like it's but I I see some of these fan bases, and then I see the way sports can bring it together. And and I made the comment on that show that I'm an educator saying this, but being around middle school kids now for 27 years in in the classroom and in the school building, if you don't recognize the importance of sports and the way it motivates people, or the way, as you said, teammates, the way it brings people together and the connection, you're really being kind of naive. And and I think it's really cool to see how some of these local communities come together and support the teams. There's something to be said for that too. The fan base truly becomes a part of the culture. I know you've had a chance to be around a couple really uh unique cultures in your coaching career. Yeah, do you have a comment on that before we elaborate on the leadership part of that? But like there, there's something to be said for that too, right? It it's not just a coach, it's not always the player, it's kind of like what you're representing in the way it brings people together.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Yeah, you know, I I think there's and I think it can be really, really positive or it can it can swing the other way. Like I think at the high school level, for instance, you're right, I've been fortunate to be a part of a couple communities that really support their athletics. And it's fun when you go to a tournament game, right? And the stands are packed and you have a great following. And and I think sometimes too, those schools that maybe are experiencing it for the first time, people get excited, right? And in some schools, you know, when you're successful for a while, you get a little spoiled. If you really, if you if you go to like big-time college athletics, it can even get a little ugly, right? I, you know, I've joked around before. I'm I'm fans, I consider myself a fan of two of the most unreasonable fan bases, I think, in college sports. I'm an Ohio State football fan, okay? And I I like Kentucky basketball. We grew up, we grew up before people say I'm a bandwagon here. We grew up with a father.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

I got it right back here somewhere. Tubby Smith ordered. There you go, yeah. Eddie Sutton basketball camp. Yeah, well, that's right. We were Google it. People didn't even know who Eddie Sutton is, bro.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

I know I I can remember going to UK's basketball camp and getting my shirt signed by Kenny Skywalker back in the back in the day, man. Oh yeah, Rex Chapman was like my hero at one point. Well, yeah, that's the Rex Chapman thing right here, isn't it? But uh but no, I mean like those two fan bases though, right? Kentucky basketball and high state football, if you lose a game, people are losing their mind. I mean, Ryan Day, like Ryan Day's lost like 10 games in his career or something. People want to fire him all the time. Um, same way. I mean, take North Carolina. I saw today where their coach isn't coming back, right? Did I see that? And and I mean, like, there's just pressure at some places to win at an unreasonable clip, right? Yeah but so it can be like that. But I think a lot of times at the high school level, it's more positive than that. I think the communities get behind kids. I think that it's it's it's what kids look forward to, right? They they enjoy that type of thing. I I you know I've seen coaches even acknowledge it with their players and say, look, look at this, you know, look, look at the crowd. These people are here for you, you know, that type of thing. And so yeah, I think I think that the unique thing about sports, I heard somebody say it the other day, sports is like the last unscripted drama left, right? Like there's nothing else. Like even your quote-unquote reality shows, I mean, there's that, right? Sports is kind of the last thing where we don't know what's going to happen going in, and we just have to watch and see. But I yeah, so I think it draws people together for sure.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Well, it really does. And I made the comment on there, and uh, and I got a mixed bag of reaction if I'm being honest, but I kind of stand by it. You know, when I when I'm covering these games down at the convo, or when I when I see things going on at the state tournament or whatever, I always say those fan bases didn't all get together to highlight their science department.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

You know what I'm saying? No, I mean it's just the harsh reality of it.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Yeah, it's but it's one of those things where now I still say that as an educator in terms of what I've watched our sports teams do, what I've watched, you know, our clubs do, our band do, all of these different things is I've seen it bring kids together, motivate them a little bit more to keep their math grade up, to keep their ELA grade up, to keep, you know what I mean? If I'm being honest, it it helped Shane Combs to junior high and early high schools. Now I later matured in high school to where that competitiveness became a part of who I was as an academic person too. Like, okay, I want to get an A, not a C, you know what I mean? But when I was in junior high, my freshman year high school, I just want to play varsity basketball. I didn't care what I got in Spanish. You know what I mean? Like it was but I eventually through great parenting, great you know, being a part of teams and being a part of what I represent. you you grow through that. So my point is that that there there truly is culture pieces and things that are are really, really important to people. And and I think that's what brings the excitement to it. Yeah, we we learned that kind of in the COVID time, right? Like it's one of those things where we would love the competition and we would love keeping score and trying to win. But if if all of a sudden we were going down there to the convo to call a high school basketball game and there wasn't one human being in the stands, that would be a different atmosphere, right? So I think all of the urgency and all of the different things we go, the March Madness isn't just about the basketball. It's about the the the the involvement of the fan bases and people that don't even like basketball. Again that's why I say football's so popular. You know not everybody knows who even plays quarterback for Ohio State. There's a lot of people be like they they might be playing Purdue Saturday at noon and they're like hey you're gonna go somewhere and watch the game right I mean like it's just it's a social thing. So it it it really is the excitement comes from what people are in involved in excitement comes from what they invest in um what they enjoy doing with people and so forth. And and I guess that's what I I mean by it's hard to create that fake passion. Like there there has to be you made a great point about the elite teams get past it and they find a way to make every game a big game. But I think again there is a human nature that certain things just mean more and a lot of times that comes from the media attention.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

It comes from the fan involvement and and don't you think in the modern day more than ever that's something leaders have to be uh quite aware of when they're leading a team or leading a group of some kind yeah I don't think there's any question Shane I think that I think that you know the more people who are on board and the more people who are interested in something probably the more excited the people performing that are right I mean if you're a musician and you're playing you know at the dock on Saturday night right or you're playing in Madison Square Garden you know in front of I mean there's different levels of all this like there you're a human being and there's going to be extra motivation um in that I think I I think sometimes I don't get off topic here I know you you were a spring sports coach for a long time and and I'm sitting here right now watching as an athletic director right spring sports at every single school struggling to an extent with numbers right like right now in our league we have two JV softball teams in our entire league right we've got um you know numbers dropping in in most of most spring sports and you'll have your outliers right do you think and maybe I'm way off because I know there's a lot of factors that go into this and this could be a whole show right I don't want to go down a rabbit hole here but what I'm saying is do you think any of it is also there's not as much it just seems like on a day-to-day basis maybe there's at some places there's not as much community excitement about a baseball game as there is a football game or a basketball game kids know they're not going to play in front of a sellout crowd every single night right am I am I just is that no you're am I offer you know it it's it's really it's really um it's really uh kind of cool that you thought to put that in that part of the show because I didn't have that in my notes and kind of shame on me for not making that connection as a spring coach you're exactly right like I've always said I had kids that love baseball but like playing hype then at five o'clock in Bainbridge doesn't meet running out of the helmet on football Friday night in the valley on the field turf you know I'm saying like it's not it's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

It's like and it's not even it's not even always about winning or losing or culture or things like that. It's just kind of like one thing might have 2000 people at it and something else might have 20 wrapped up in a bank in a blanket for the first you know you wrap up in a blanket at a football game it kind of makes sense you wrap up at one at a baseball game it's a miserable right it it's it's no you're you're right I mean the the spring sports I see it on the media side as I move to the media side and the media line up for those fall and winter dates because why well viewership clicks money all of a sudden you get in the spring and you're like hey we're gonna get into a game you know what I'm saying like it's one of those where it's just that's that's the reality of what it is. So so you're exactly right I think sometimes it's and and and I think I think the cool thing about it is it it truly does come back to can you find can you find a true love for what you do and the people you do it with. And then all of a sudden the other stuff is just the icing on the cake so to speak right you know the the thrill of competing if you love to run track if you love to play baseball if you love to play softball go do it I watch lots of these indoor track kids go into winter and travel all over the place just to kind of gear up for their season and and continue to compete. Right. That's awesome. You know what I mean like I that's fun. You know the the last thing I would throw in there there's so much transition to final thoughts but like I would even take this a step further of sometimes when you do things man you don't get very many opportunities. The one thing about coaching is you and I've been like fortunate enough to do it like 30 times in terms of a year. If you think about it in a high school setting you get four chances to do it. Think back to your playing days you get four chances some kids go through injury some kids go through bad situations. If you look at it from a professional standpoint I always thought it would be insane to be an Olympic athlete and you train your whole life if you're that good. You didn't you didn't start training last month if you're like Olympic good right your whole life and depending on your sport you probably have a window of three Olympics maybe depending on your sport. Like you know a lot of times in gymnasts you probably are better to be younger as you start to get up in your 20s and 30s a lot harder um you know you hear it with swimming you hear it with certainly with track athletes and the the skier her her name um Lindsay Hall yeah that that she had the injury and a lot of people be like what was she doing? Well I'm not saying it was the most sound decision but I kind of understand if that's been your whole life and like well what am I going to do? Wait till there's no game next week like in our I can't like Hunter Green can sit out for two or three months and then he could pitch this year. You know what I'm saying? Like because there's 162 games starting tomorrow. So do you understand what I mean there I think of already in the masters to use a masters like these golfers they come up and they basically have like when Tiger Woods was chasing Jack he had four chances a year. And if you shot 78 on Thursday well that one's gone you know I mean because the the the field's too good. You know what I mean like it's it's so there there's something about the less the opportunity the more the urgency therefore more pressure that goes up that there's something to be said there too and and I kind of go back to what you said earlier. I guess that's something you really just have to be aware of and it really becomes a personal standard you have to learn to set for yourself if you're gonna be uh successful in what you're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Yeah and I think as a coach it's always hit me what you just said that that the kids I'm coaching they only get four cracks at this right in terms of their years of high school and I think as a coach you owe it to them to understand that and to keep that in mind because I because as a coach I've always said I'm never going to just quit on a season. I'm never going to um you know I I very seldom during a season Shane I don't know about you when you you were coaching very seldom do I think about next year. You know every now and then something will happen and you'll say man I think this kid's going to be really good next year whatever you know I mean but I'm saying like I just think it's disrespectful to your seniors especially to think about next year right or to to talk about that um because like you said to them there is no next year. As a coach if if if God willing you know and you have the health and and the school keeps you around theoretically you could coach for a long time right not ever obviously but for a long time you know every single kid who comes into high school knows exactly when their final date is um in high school if if they get the if they're healthy enough to play all the way through. If you're a basketball player you know four years from now sometime in March you know your season's coming your career's coming to an end as a high school basketball player. And I think as a coach and as leaders we have to understand that and almost coach with that urgency a little bit too shame.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Yeah I want to take us into final thoughts here and I'll just kind of throw some things out and and and see where you want to go with it. For people again new to the show here on Expanding the Zone, what Matt and I try to do is we have the the the entertainment you know sports talk part of it but then we always try to connect it back and forth with leadership. And then at the end we want to make sure we sum up uh what it is that he and I get from the experience because again we do this as my you know I I I I use the analogy of you know where when I teach Sunday school in my spiritual walk I you know it it it forces me to invest more in scripture right it forces me to invest more into it's the same way here like I I would encourage leaders anywhere to put yourself in positions where it forces you to constantly evaluate what it and reflect on what you're doing, why you do it, how could you do it better? I think that's really really important. And that's one thing Matt that here we are on show 78 that I've always loved about this show. So in final thoughts I guess what I take from this is throughout longevity and throughout the course of something there's going to be changes there's going to be adversity there's going to be ups and downs you're gonna have the you know I made the comment earlier this year when when uh the kid from Medina hit the hit the like the shot for beyond half court to beat Southeastern remember that in the SBC uh Francis kid uh from Medina on one side you've got this like like you know woohoo you know just excited so happy you you like you just end up stealing a game and on the other side you've got just this this you you feel for the coach you feel for those kids on the other end because it's just you're going to have those moments I don't care you do it long enough I know you've been beat on a shot from you know Miss Three quarter court you know earlier in your career like you you if you coach long enough you're gonna be on all sides of these things it's but but I think it's the having the consistency having your everydays is what I always called them as a coach your non-negotiables your standards what's the standard holding them to it but then having the ability to adapt and adjust around those it's and it's a really dynamic balance that I don't know that any coach ever perfects. I think that's what makes it so cool is I think you you spend your entire career chasing it. I guess that's my number one take from the show can you elaborate on that maybe even given whatever final thought you want but I'd really like to hear you elaborate on that and am I putting the notes of the show together when I say it that way yeah I think the thing that keeps coming to my mind and all this and I think it's that and I get it this this word is so overused it's important if used correctly the process right um a lot of people talk that and really you know it's just sort of poster culture meaning they just hang it up on the wall but that's not really what they do but like but but the process keeps coming to my mind and that's because like everything we've talked about tonight there's a process to the whole you know a season right that but you you started the show by saying you wanted to break it down in the beginning middle and end right there's a process that goes through all that um you know you talked about the ups and downs you know and you're never really as good as you think you are you're never really as bad as you think you are you know it's probably somewhere in the middle and having you know like we talk about a 24 hour rule on our team where we're not going to enjoy a win any longer than a day we're not going to mourn I guess for lack of a better word a loss more than a day um you know because that's a part of the process of continuing on.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

So I think I think that would be my final thought uh I this I I when we did started the show tonight I didn't really think of it that way but the more we talked about it I think the whole show revolved around process you know following the process from beginning to end.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Well and we always talk about relationships and that's what's cool you know throughout a career I've I've been on all sides of it you know I've I've been with seasons that just didn't go very well um and then I've been fortunate enough to be on you know some situations where we had incredible success at the end and but I can I can say this I didn't love my coaching staff any less or more I didn't love my kids any less or more. Yeah mainly that that's the part that's the part that that's really cool. That's the part that you hope when the scoreboard's turned off that you know you're you're getting a little bit more out of it and it continues to drive you a little bit so um no great show great start to season eight uh episode seventy eight I encourage people if you if you're getting us on the audio side make sure you subscribe over on YouTube. Uh you can watch us if you're watching us make sure you have that over there on your podcast app because then you can take us with you in your car or whatnot when you're driving or doing uh doing whatever. So Matt, anything on your notes I missed there or can we get on out of here on that?

SPEAKER_00 57:59

No I think I think we covered it Shane good job tonight putting the show together and uh kind of laying it out for us and uh hopefully we'll have some good topics here over the next few weeks.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Well Matt the wise man once said you can't win them all if you don't win the first one. So go Reds. Undefeated right yeah the Reds they're undefeated right now. Go Reds and hopefully uh when we get together here in a week or so the Reds aren't out of it yet. Yeah that's the great option so hey appreciate everybody uh uh uh for support and expanding the zone I'm Shane Combs from Matt Combs uh we'll see you next time thanks everyone