Hey World, meet renaissance man, Joel Kaemmerlen.
Welcome to a place where we're thinking together and thinking deeper about who we are. Welcome to the philosophy podcast.
Joel Kaemmerlen:Hello, good morning. How are you? Sounds good. Oh, I can I can send.
William Forchion:Welcome to the philosophy podcast. I'm William Forchion. And today, my guest is...
Joel Kaemmerlen:I am Joel Kaemmerlen. And I am a renaissance maniac.
William Forchion:a renaissance man, that's a great
Joel Kaemmerlen:better than a renaissa nce manequin, which I have been before
William Forchion:I ran into Joel. The first time I was working at a hardware store and this guy, we started talking about something and then stand up comedy came up. And we both do stand up comedy, which I would say, wait a minute, this guy, bear with me. This guy's pretty square. And he's doing stand up comedy.
Intro Voice:me.
William Forchion:But you have a lot of other really cool interests. And we're gonna get into stand up comedy as well. I like where does your money come from? How do you know what made you just jump into that? Because I also so I was hosting and it got shut down really quickly due to the the, the stay at home shelter in place orders that are out there. And we couldn't do any longer or an audience. I was running a once monthly stand up comedy open mic. And the first one I did I actually used Joel's talents, for better for lack of a better phrase. So tell tell me a little, a little bit about your background in getting into stand up comedy. And where does that come from?
Joel Kaemmerlen:That's a good question. I'm not sure where where it comes from. It's probably universal, you know, that it comes from some sort of some sort of personal anguish and the release that comedy has from it. I i've, because I've been pursuing comedy a lot I've been thinking about, you know, why we do it. And, you know, what inclines us as people to to accommodate. And I think a lot of ways it's the release valve for tension for situations and I found that humor is especially pivotal in my relationships with other people if navigating through things that might be uncomfortable, or unpleasant, that there's that that release of stepping back from it and finding humor in it and being released from maybe the emotional tension that's caused by I don't know what what got me into stand up comedy other than my admiration for other stand up comics, and just the pleasure that I found from performance in general. It's something that I craved doing for a long time and finally mustered up the cajones to get up there and give it a shot.
William Forchion:Now, one of the things that a lot of stand up comics talk about is a is who they who they looked up to who they emulated resinated.
Joel Kaemmerlen:Yeah.
William Forchion:First of all, who who do you did you resonate with? And who do you most see yourself? Like?
Joel Kaemmerlen:It's a question. Um, there's, there's a lot of comics who influenced me like from my childhood on. I think sketch comedy was really my first love before doing stand up, but there's definitely some crossover there. So I was too young, when Saturday Night Live was really in its heyday. But I remember getting the Eddie Murphy, the best of Eddie Murphy Saturday Night Live on VHS as a kid. And then getting into his stand up comedy, some of his earlier stuff raw and delirious, things like that. So other than kind of the 1950s style of stand up comedy that started evolving in the one liners. As I got older, I really got into Bill Hicks. That was really an eye opening experience for me when I was a teenager and I was feeling especially rebellious. And a lot of that intellectual leftist rebellion spoke to me significantly. And I'm a huge fan of Maria Bamford. And there's just too many to name
William Forchion:When I listened to your work when I when you when I want to ply your trade. I'm right right. I feel like I've just been transported to the Catskills or you're off you know, like, I could just imagine you in a room doing the borscht circuit or just because you have a really dry delivery. And but you do contrast that by I mean you have a great bit of contrast. I love your sets in that they do have they start off really dry and they just rev up Just like they're there, you don't see them coming at you. And then you know they're on you. And it's it's, it's a it's really neat.
Joel Kaemmerlen:And that that kind of reminds me a lot of my my father, I think I got a lot of my comic sense from him because my, my father has a very dry sense of humor, but he knows what's funny. So he'll be telling this hysterical story and just hitting all the points with it and barely cracking a smile, and it makes it all that much funnier. Remember, actually reading he read this book to me when I was a kid is called Danny, the champion of the world, which was a book by Roald Dahl, about a father and son who lived together and a dad gets the Son into poaching pheasants. It's a really funny story. And there's this detail in that book about how the father never smiles. But instead, when he's smiling, he twinkles in his eye, and how a lot of people can fake a smile, but you can't fake. And when my father tells us wry stories, if he doesn't smile when he has that twinkle in his eye, just like in that book, and I think that I picked up a lot of my sense from him, and you definitely do see it in my stand up. And I it's not like I was able to do it for very long before this COVID mess came. So there's still a lot to develop. But to answer your previous question, I I see the style that been working now it's a lot resembling of patent Oswald's earlier stuff like that. I think that listening to a lot of those albums, were also lollipops and feeling kind of had. And those had a pretty profound influence on my writing style as a comic. Because I do as a writer, I really have come to enjoy the rewriting process and trying to hash something out. And then as you see in my stand up, I'll just take a bit and I'll just double down and triple down and quadruple down and just keep developing until it descends into complete madness.
William Forchion:Right, and it's funny, because doing stand up, which I am also new to I've only been at it for a couple years, although I've wanted to do it for over 40 years. Yeah, you are, we have a very different style, I will say I'll run through my head a lot, I barely write down anything. And then I, I just I improv, I just kind of go I know where I'm heading to, I don't know how I'm getting there. But I know I'm heading and I go for it. And you are really meticulous you have worked out you have you have so much of it sculpted already. And then you allow it to shape in front of an audience and then you try it again. And you work it some more until you I mean you're like a fine art sculpture with your work. And it and it shows because I watched you over a couple of sessions take a pieces that have developed and they develop beautifully. And I appreciate that and expand in what you do. Now, I want to I have to there's a two roads here that we can take one is taking how this is shaping other things that you're doing. And the other one is going backwards and and like just where did you Where did you come from? What planet are you from? Where did you get like where did you grow up? What was what was home life like? Because as you said there's a lot of the comedy that when we look instead of comics there's a lot of comics who are their comedy is developed from NXP is developed from kind of hardship and there's an inner turmoil that they're working through that make that comes out as funny yet within the the Cesar are dark and dank and they're roiling. Right, well, but the funny comes out. So tell us a little bit about where you come from. You're growing up Sure.
Joel Kaemmerlen:Yeah. Or or what's funny is a lot of people think that they're being funny. And that's a situation by for some people, other people also think it's funny when they demonstrate that anguish, you know, right, for some people that can come out as some as a lot of vitriol, you know, whereas others it can be a bonding experience where everyone is released from that, which is really interesting. Yeah, and it's it's interesting, like how one can take something like mania and it can be this incredible fuel to the fire but you know, you get gasoline too close to your your bonfire and you end up self sabotaging with that same energy. So I was born in New Hampshire, and I lived in a few different towns before moving to Western Mass when I was six years old, and I lived there for my entire education. So in kindergarten through college, and when I got to Worcester, I went to a private religious school, went to a Solomon Schechter day school. And my I think the biggest class I ever had was maybe like 10 other students. So it was definitely a bubble, a social bubble. And there is a real contrast, I think, between the teachers who appreciated my intensity, and who I found refuge with, and those who were kind of mainline hardcore, very rigid, which just did not fly very well with me. And I think in a lot of ways, gave me a knee jerk reaction to authority in general that has, unfortunately sabotage some of some of the relationships I had with authority going on in my youth before I was
William Forchion:Were you the class clown?
Joel Kaemmerlen:I was definitely described as weird, you know, like, I'm not sure. It's so complicated to try to disseminate the your social relationship when the class is eight kids, right now you're kind of, you're trapped, and you kind of need each other. So you can't effectively be a pariah for very long because people are stuck with you.
William Forchion:Right
Joel Kaemmerlen:I was never, I was never a pariah. But I'm not I'm not really sure what my identity was, I was known for being a goofball. But a class clown would be hyperbole.
William Forchion:Right. Okay. No, and that's a, you know, one of those common questions. And what I'm really floored at, is that very few people who do adventure into comedy, are actually the class clown. Most of us are where we're sitting back and thinking through things, or a lot of us were thinking, thinking it through and, and really understanding the relationship between words and people and all that stuff. And then it eventually came out as the the comedy thing.
Joel Kaemmerlen:Yeah. And there's people who suffer from social anxiety who get up on stage and do the scariest thing you can do, which is, you know, up there. Right, stand up comedy.
William Forchion:Where did you go to college?
Joel Kaemmerlen:So after I got out of that day school, I went to a pretty rough high school. It was not the high school that was close to the private school, where a lot of the kids that I had been in school with for nine years, we're going, I went up to burncoat, Senior High in North End, Western, which was, yeah, like, had a lot of kids that were from tough projects. And when I went to shadow there, I just saw that there were so many people who didn't look like me, and who didn't act like me. And it was so appealing after being stuck at Solomon chapter for nine years to branch out. And I went there. And then, you know, I did well academically, but I had, I still had my brush ins with the administration, with the hardcore people who just didn't appreciate any true creativity, they just wanted you to kind of jump through the hoops and be an automaton, essentially. And so I left there, I went to college for my senior year of high school at Worcester State. So I went to Clark University for four years afterwards, but I had already been in college for a year when I went there. I kind of regret missing out on my senior year, but it was also it was just time to get out of there. And I had some good times. I mean, it's college.
William Forchion:So I'm just gonna take a moment here and just say that if you're just joining, I am in conversation with Joel Kaemmerlen, who has been sharing about stand up comedy, and we're at his how it got to where he is right now. And we're heading towards his other interests and his other loves and passions in life. I have worked with Joel, we've done some stand up together. And we've done other projects together, which we'll get into later. So back to where we were, we were so you got to college, what did you study? And then did you know what you're going to do?
Joel Kaemmerlen:I studied sociology. And eventually what happened was, one of the things in the background that really got me into doing stand up was performance in general. I got into community theater when I was an adolescent, and did that through high school. And that was really my passion. I wanted to be an actor. That's what I wanted. And my grandparents were really generous. They were they were footing the bill for what my scholarships didn't pay for, for college, but they had no interest in sending another one of their kids to an art school. They had done that before and learn their lesson. And so I ended up going to Clark University because it was close to my martial arts school at the time. I was I'm not sure if I started running classes when I was admitted into court, but I did. I did. I was running classes. By the time I was a freshman. And that was really what what held me there and I've lost my train of thought it was fine. It took me way so many things, but martial arts is one of the things that I got really
William Forchion:Wh at form martial arts did you did you train?
Joel Kaemmerlen:so that it's Taekwondo than kung fu and I studied at another kung fu school a few years ago, for A few years, okay, so mostly Kung Fu. But fortunately, the Taekwondo gave me a really good foundation for my kicks, because that's what they're awesome at.
William Forchion:And as a stand up comic you need that you need that.
Joel Kaemmerlen:Hey man,. Yeah. You never know when your hip flexors will come in handy when someone bum rushes you, because you've offended there were too many.
William Forchion:You've got you've got another tool for handling hecklers. There you go.
Joel Kaemmerlen:Be prepared at all times.
William Forchion:All right. So one of the other things that you are doing is you are writing. Currently, you're working on a podcast, which is I want to say it's, it's unusual, but there are so many different kinds of podcasts out there. Your podcast is more like a old time radio show. Yeah, but it's sketch comedy. It's got right. commercials. Yeah. Tell me.
Joel Kaemmerlen:It's, you know, it is it's hard to describe what the show is. But yeah, I wanted to do an old time radio show that kind of descended into a sketch comedy show. That's, that's utter madness, and has been an absolute pleasure to work on. I just can't put enough blessings on all the people who I've managed to recruit into the show with their talent. It's been it's been a really wonderful experience. And we've been working on it for about a year and a half now. Slowly chipping away at it and getting the pilot ready. And it's happening. So yeah, that's really exciting.
William Forchion:Please tell us what the name of that podcast is. And then if you can give a little overview of what it looks like, you know, what makes this podcast stand out from in the podcast verse.
Joel Kaemmerlen:So, the name of the show is Christmas Wolf, which is kind of a strange name that came about because it came about for a few reasons. One is that when they were still video stores around I don't know if you remember that back in the day, but me and my wife were looking at the movies and noticed what an influx of movies, they were about dogs saving Christmas. And at another point, I was talking with my good friend, Josh, who is a pivotal member of the show, and I was talking about how I'm more of a Christmas, wolf. And it was looking back on my childhood, because my mom's side is Jewish, and my father and his Christian, we were practicing Jews, and we would go to their house to celebrate Christmas. And it was like, This is Christmas. And it's awesome. But you can't have it. It's not really for you. The idea of being an outsider, I think it's pivotal to the show that it appeals to people who are a bit on the fringes, it's offbeat humor. It's dark, and mixes horror with with comedy. But the show also has a lot of heart. There's definitely moments where we're leaning more towards comedy and having characters with real substance and beauty to them with the comedy still in there. So we're trying to cover a lot of bases with it. And I think that we're doing a good job with it.
William Forchion:You have mentioned Josh, and if I may, or Josh Cunningham
Joel Kaemmerlen:He's my best buddy,
William Forchion:who you guys go back a bit because you you were doing stuff before because you had worked on a radio show. If I'm not incorrect. And the two of you had worked together on that, can you tell me about that? And did work from the radio show? help shape your stand up or the podcast that you're?
Joel Kaemmerlen:Yeah, that entirely. I mean, that was really the whole drawing board for what we're doing right now. And learning from our successes and our mistakes and what we needed to do to take things to the next level. So this show originally started with me doing it myself, and it was called muskrat repair services, which was based on a sketch where two reoccurring characters who run a radio show have guests on and everything goes wrong in hilarious ways. The first guest was Larry Donahue, the owner of muskrat repair services, who is an incredibly certainly man who is asked to leave about three minutes into the interview. And that's where most credit repair services comes from. And it was an old it was an old idea of mine back when I was working in kitchen about muskrat repair and I would leave I would leave messages on my my phone voicemails for people to leave it to for the business. I'm not sure where it came about, but it just it stuck around God bless. And so I ended up recording a number of sketches all with my own voices and intermeshing things over and and after a while Josh got interested and we started writing scripts together and started doing things and then we kind of burned out on it. It was. We were doing it at wV w here in Brattleboro, the local radio station. And we had to come up with a cue for music and plan shows, in addition to all the comedy stuff, and it just became unsustainable with two people to keep it up. And so we took a break. And fortunately, in the last few years, I've gotten back into community theater pretty heavily, been in almost every show of it, the Guilford Grange, and the few other of the millions of theatre companies here in Vermont. And Josh has also been in a number of shows with me in the and going through the different productions, I've met a lot of really talented people that I recruited for the show to do voice acting. And what's really cool is some of them have also gotten into writing where they never did before. And it's been really awesome to create a supportive, ego free environment in which people can develop skills they might not otherwise have pursued. And also to provide a break for some creative people like Anders Burroughs is a really talented musician, but he wanted to do acting for this. Fortunately, he's also a very talented actor. So it's nice to give some creative people a break from what they're doing for money, trying to do professionally and make it as fun as possible for everyone.
William Forchion:Right. One of the other things, which I also think is pretty unique, is with having been seen the inner workings of what you're doing with Christmas, Wolf, is that it's it employs the whole the writers room concept is that you come up with a you have a template, or you throw out some you're writing your script, and then everyone is a table read. And then there's room for additions and subtractions. Not always because you are the czar that you because I've I've actually seen this process. And I think it's really a neat process. And it doesn't the ensemble component, I think is really important to how each of the pieces develops, even when some so your ensemble may not always have a say in, in making changes. But they do have a say in developing the characters. And I have seen where they have had SES in the developing of the piece after it's been written or you've given them the structure of the bones of it. So can you talk a little bit about that?
Joel Kaemmerlen:Sure. The process that like what's the process of actually like making something like this? Yeah, I really tried to give people a lot of credence and leeway to try different things and allow people to make whatever suggestions and there have been times where there's been consensus between a number of people there about something that I'm not really on board with, but it seems that people are strongly enough for it together, that they have a better idea of where something should go. And I think that's it's part of the creative process, whether you're writing by yourself or with other people, too. Even if you really like something, and you're like, Oh, that's that's funny, our whole man, that's smart, that I love this character. If it's not working for the piece itself, it's not working for that thing, you got to ditch it, and you got to let it go. And so that's really a lot of the process of, you know, working together on something as is everyone putting in their two cents about? What should this get out of here? Like, do we need to develop this platform. And what that looks like on a meeting basis is pretty varied. So some, the same person who wrote a script, the other week, might come up with an idea but have no interest in writing the script and hand it off to someone else, or someone who thought they were going to be involved in one respect becomes involved more than another. And that's, that's really cool to see. Because people have different strengths, and different leanings and giving everyone the opportunity. So there's no real clear way to convey exactly how you know what the process is because it tends to change. But usually, it's just someone someone finds something really funny. It's, it's a scenario That's funny. It's a character. That's hilarious. And there's some there's some little thing and it just catches it's like a it's it's like a flick of a match that hits the Tinder in the right race and everyone you can just see everyone light up and go that is funny, like, what do we do with that? And then throwing the ideas around the table until we start developing and then someone will do a character voice and kind of, you know, go back and forth and as as a group together, we just were trying to figure out what's actually funny about it, right. Once we figure that out, you've write a first draft and that first draft doesn't need to be Good, needs to be finished. Right? And when you when you have meat to work with, right rewrite it until it's right,
William Forchion:when you're working through the process, because not everybody knows what this process is. And and actually quite a few people don't know this process. Do you hear the voices in your head? Do you? Are you like, a little, you know, are you? Are the characters actually coming alive? Or are you? Are you sitting there worrying?
Joel Kaemmerlen:Completely and for me, it's, you know, you describe me as meticulous in my writing. And that's, that's definitely how it is, I can hear all the timing, I can hear the tone, I can hear all of it, it's all clear as day in my head when I'm writing it, especially when it's a good script. Because I can get really set on that and be meticulous, I understand that enough to when I'm bringing the script to people for the first time, or the second or even the third, I really try not to provide any of that direction, I try not to get too attached with what's going on in my head. Because when you're working with other people, they bring brilliance that you just don't have to the table, they're going to have a different take on a character that's going to maybe it's not going to work, but a lot of times it provides something that's like absolute gold that I didn't even see and couldn't have. So that's that's really
William Forchion:that was my follow up on that was Have you had where you had a clear voice in your head of a character, and then someone reading that character, and they're taking it in a very different direction. And you're just like, no, have you had the chance times where you've needed to just steer them back to this is how I hear it, and draw a line read of what that is.
Joel Kaemmerlen:Definitely. And I and I'm trying to find the right equilibrium with with actors, you know, where, because some people really want a free rein, some people really want a lot of guidance. And sometimes the opposite is good, if it's gentle, and it's just a matter of, you know, figuring out that process together of where someone's at, where they where they're at their optimum level of having those reins pulled in or being let go. And it's been really fun to see and support people. Because it's creating as a as a process you what works for you one year changes another you you become better you develop.
William Forchion:And well. So where we're at right now, the reason why we're doing this interview and with this process right now is that normally I when I started doing the interviews, it was person to person, we'd be in the same place, but now we're in right. We're social distancing. And, and we so times have changed and which has meant a different platform. You're I mean, this, it's great that you're doing a podcast because you don't need a large audience to be in the room when you're doing that. Where do you see this? How do you see the business changing the the whole entertainment industry is changing, and where you're poised with what you're doing? Do you see where we're coming out to? Do you have any idea of what might be ahead?
Joel Kaemmerlen:I think that we're all just stuck in speculation right now. And even people who are insiders who are much more deeply connected with the industry would still be giving you a pretty wide spectrum of Gamble's on this, we could use someone who's young and hungry. Right now. I just picture some scraggly, 24 year old who's sick, who knows all the social media platforms, because the amount of work that goes into post production, as you know, is incredibly demanding. And in addition to still working a job, thank God, you know, doing, trying trying to build an exorcism that's taking place in an auditorium with all sorts of people making reactions and making that believable is not a simple process, especially when the sketch is 14 minutes long. So yeah, it's that's something that we're we've been talking about a lot lately and trying to think and
William Forchion:I would say that's also something that that's come up is that you're not creating uniform packages. So each of your writings are you creating a like so the finished product. Since it's not done yet. I'm asking speculatively is are you putting out a half hour show? Are you putting out a 15 minute show? Or are you just putting out skits going out whatever length it is a seven minute a five minute, a 20 minute skit? How is that how you rolling out this? And partly because I would like to know it partly because I think that listeners who are thinking outside the box or creating innovative stuff might be going oh yeah, there's validity into my doing it that way as well.
Joel Kaemmerlen:It is such an honor interesting topic, because we are living in an era where television and movies and media has changed a lot and the how long something runs and and and how it's released has become incredibly nuanced. And it's been an interesting debate with with everyone as to what's the best thing to do. And the conclusion I came to is, what we're trying to do right now is really nail down this pilot and make it a really great portfolio of what the show has to offer. With that said, there is a pile of scripts about that thick, waiting to be recorded and made into episodes, we have so much material that's already been rewritten and written, it's ready to go. And how we're going to divide that, I think that that pilots probably going to be 40 minutes, and that 40 minutes is going to be longer than the average episode that most of them will be shorter than that. But it's really going to be a matter of where how they're put together. So I do not see us having a standard time for episodes, I see them as I'm hard pressed to think of some other shows that I've seen do this, but there's going to be some variants there, there will be shows that are 12 to 15 minutes long, there will be ones that are 23 minutes long. There'll be ones that are 40 minutes long. We have long scripts, we have short scripts. So right. There will be rewards for those who continue listening that way, but those who might jump around,
William Forchion:right? All right. Well, Joel, it's been great chatting with you. So one of the things I always think of is, you got the younger you who's sitting back there going Hmm, I'm thinking about doing that. Do you have any advice to give to someone who is thinking about either stand up or creating, writing and doing this recording their work, any advice, any Sure.
Joel Kaemmerlen:Glad to do anything, you know, because you don't know, if you if you have an interest, just pursue it. Because it might connect you to things that you don't anticipate. You might not even like that thing in the long run. But it might lead you to something else that might connect you to other people who are creative, who can turn you on to things that you didn't anticipate. And also just start small. You know, if you're like, I want to write, I'm going to sit down and write that novel, or that idea that I've had cooking in my head for a while, you're probably you might you might succeed at it. But why not write something small first, and give yourself that reward of having finished something because that feeling that you haven't finished things perpetuates that feeling of yourself as someone who doesn't finish things, and we don't, none of us finish everything. It's okay. But the more things that you actually do complete, whether they're good or not, the farther you'll go, and you can take something that you finish and you can actually make it better, it's easier to do that than to improve on than to try to edit something as you're going along. So to set your goals really small is has been a huge factor for myself, at least. And be okay with your failures, laugh at them and learn from them. Every single person who's made it any place has has suitcases and suitcases of failures there.
William Forchion:And I think I mean, what reminded me of in the, you know, the disparaging term of snowflake, but if you were to craft a bunch of snow, you know, one snowflake, not a big deal. But if you were to get you know, a bunch of snowflakes, turns into a blizzard. And you would laugh at a snowflake but not at you know, six foot of snow. And yet that six foot snow is made up of all those snowflakes,
Joel Kaemmerlen:nothing but snowflakes,
William Forchion:nothing but snowflakes. And I use that term on purpose just because of
Joel Kaemmerlen:Oh, yes, no. Thank you.
William Forchion:All right. So, Joel, it's been great chatting with you. This is a moment since we're almost at to the end. If you have anything you want to throw out there that I didn't ask you that you was like, Hey, I wanted to share this, man. Why didn't you ask me about that? If there's anything you got that you want to throw out there just like, you know, hey, I've got a sports drink that I want to sell.
Joel Kaemmerlen:You know, plugging myself isn't isn't really my strong suit. There is one thing though I did say like, you know, you could ask intimate questions and I was really helping you to get to all those murders that I got away with. So
William Forchion:you're not helping yourself here.
Joel Kaemmerlen:I never do I never do.
William Forchion:If you are not helping yourself, Joel Cameron. I am really grateful that we had this time together. And thank you for sharing what you're what you're digging into and how you're changing the world with a little with humor. Not a little bit. A lot. You're going to drop us a little avalanche or or a snow storm of fumer where
Joel Kaemmerlen:it's gonna be a fire-nado typhoon,
William Forchion:a fire-nado typhoon with with killer turtles, or everyone thank you for listening. Thank you for watching here on vBillolsophy
Joel Kaemmerlen:William Forchion, I love you. Thank you.
William Forchion:Thank you very much Joel
Joel Kaemmerlen:Have a great day, Buddy.
William Forchion:OK I'll be dropping a few more of these I got some more interviews coming up. And I also go back to my format from my first season, which is just my stepping inside of my cranium and, and pulling out topics and if you have topics that you would like to hear, please hit me up at my email Bill lesufi 101 at gmail.com and also support through Patreon. You can also support through philosophy 101 at cashapp and philosophy, one on one at Venmo. Okay, thank you very much. And remember, move forward with passion and purpose. And please, every morning and every night look in the mirror say to yourself, I am enough because you know it, you are enough.
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