From Passionate Intern to World Class Designer : Palesa Mokubung Part 1 (S9, E6)

This is the first part of a two-part conversation with renowned South African fashion designer Palesa Mokubung. In this conversation, she shares her 20-year journey with Mantsho by Palesa Mokubung, the fashion brand she founded after working as an intern at another iconic South African fashion house, Stoned Cherrie. 

This episode is both a celebration and a walk down memory lane with Palesa and here are some of the topics we discussed during our conversation: 

• Founded Mantsho without formal education, working for seven years before hitting a ceiling
• Returned to school at 30, studying alongside teenagers to formally train in fashion design
• Describes education as transformative, bringing focus, technical knowledge, and business structure
• Collaborated with H&M in 2019
• Uses authentic South African cultural elements in designs, from specific color palettes to layering techniques
• Defines success as making a visible impact on African lives
• Attending trade show in Paris as a first step in global expansion for Mantsho
• Values sustainability and conscious production in fashion
• Maintains an informal "board of directors" to guide her in her business decisions

Keep an eye out for the second and final part of this conversation. Subscribe to the Shades and Layers newsletter on shadesandlayers.com or follow wherever you get your podcasts.

LINKS AND MENTIONS

Shweshwe (Seshoeshoe) - Traditional Bashoto printed colorful fabric

Stoned Cherrie - Iconic and seminal post-Apartheid South African fashion brand inspired by African aesthetics, as well as 50s and 60s urban African style with echoes of the Harlem Renaissance as seen in Janet Jackson's 'Got 'Til It's Gone' video

H&M Advert controversy - In 2018, the Swedish fast fashion brand faced a backlash over a racist advert featuring a Black child model wearing a sweatshirt that read "Coolest Monkey In The Jungle"

Amapostoli - United Apostolic African Church known for its iconic blue and white uniforms.

Chapters

• 0:33 Introduction to Palesa Mokubung
• 1:35 Reflecting on 20 Years in Fashion
• 5:33 Education as a Career Turning Point
• 9:44 Defining the Mansu Brand Identity
• 12:52 The H&M Collaboration Story
• 22:55 Global Expansion and African Success
• 27:35 Financing a Fashion Business
• 33:25 Closing and Future Episodes

Transcript

Kutloano Skosana: 0:02

And then listen to this. I was pregnant with my first daughter so I thought, okay, I'll take the meeting. But H&M had been on everyone's radar because a couple

Kutloano Skosana: 0:12

of months, or less than a year before it was in the hot water, I cringed a little bit. I mean, I think that Maxhosa is doing really, really good. Before it was like, oh, do I have to stay up to work, whereas after school it was like, okay, if I don't stay up, then we don't have work.

Palesa Mokubung: 0:33

Hello and welcome to Shades and Layers. I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci host, , and this is the first part of a two-part conversation. My guest is renowned South African fashion Palesa Mokubung, , founder of the brand Mantsho , which she started 20 years ago. Yes, 20 years in business, so that officially makes her a legend. Her journey to this milestone includes establishing a solid business, winning several industry awards and some high profile South African collaborations, and most notably notably her international collaboration with the Swedish fast fashion brand H&M. Unfortunately, soon after that collaboration, 2020 happened and slowed down her international expansion plans. But now, with things almost back to normal and on Mantsho 20th year in business, we take a look back at where she came from and the next steps she will be taking to spread her wings further. But first let's find out what being 20 years in business means to Pales Mokubung.

Kutloano Skosana: 1:35

Late last year that I'd been in the 20-year mark. Right, it didn't cross my mind, because I had another baby when the company was turning 20.

Kutloano Skosana: 1:45

I was very pregnant with my second baby, with my daughter. So I had all the pregnancy brain, if you want to call it. I was very happy with it, with not remembering the 20-year mark, because then it meant I didn't have to make a big deal out of it. But everyone else in my life and people who supported me and been part of my journey were very excited about it and I didn't have time to really kind of figure out how I got there Right, Just in simple terms, just in my own, like what were the three steps? Bam bam, bam, how did I get there? What does the 20-year mark consist of? And I realized that it was quite fractured in that I worked after I left Stoned Cherrie and I was at Stoned Cherrie for, I think, three years. And when I was at Stoned Cherrie I had one year of education, one year education in the fashion field, and I started working and interning and working really hard and making my mark and creating my place in the industry for that three years.

Kutloano Skosana: 2:49

After I left Stoned Cherrie. I didn't take a break. I won a competition and I went. I traveled a little bit, I traveled a little bit and then I started my brand and I worked on it for about seven years. So when the seven years that I worked on my own after Stoned Cherrie were without a qualification Right, I accomplished many, many things. I showcased all over the world.

Palesa Mokubung: 3:23

I created such a you know, a strong signature and a very clear voice in the fashion industry and I carved out a woman for myself, right and a market for myself. Yeah, yeah.

Kutloano Skosana: 3:34

But then I reached the ceiling after seven years. Because that's that happens when you have limited knowledge, limited knowledge, you have limited knowledge, formal education in this technical field. So I went to get my BA degree in fashion design.

Palesa Mokubung: 3:53

Right, where did you study? Did you stay in Joburg or did you travel abroad?

Kutloano Skosana: 3:57

No, I studied in Joburg. I studied at Design School of SA, which is now.

Palesa Mokubung: 4:01

Vega. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kutloano Skosana: 4:03

And yeah, so I took a break and I studied full time and I wow I was not that young anymore. I mean, I was, I think I just turned 30, so I was studying with 18 year olds and 19 year olds yeah, yeah, I had a brand.

Kutloano Skosana: 4:19

I was so competitive and I was just, it was just like, um, it's just something that I needed to do. You know, I felt like. I felt like I owed myself at least that much and also owed my field, because I could tell that this is what I want to do for the long haul.

Palesa Mokubung: 4:35

And I didn't want to give myself any.

Kutloano Skosana: 4:38

I wanted to feel worthy. I wanted to feel worthy of it. Yeah, I wanted to feel worthy of it because I knew that it was going to be, you know, a long yeah this was going to be your life's work, kind of yeah. It was going to be my life's work, so I studied for three years, I finished in 2014 and then I started working again. So what you're seeing is like nine, 10 years worth of a business that was built again from scratch.

Palesa Mokubung: 5:04

Right, wow. So what was the difference between the before and after?

Kutloano Skosana: 5:11

Oh my God, everything, oh my God. The level of focus. Can we talk about just the level of focus?

Palesa Mokubung: 5:16

Yeah.

Kutloano Skosana: 5:17

The level of focus, having a point of reference, knowing that you will spend some nights, know up because you're working, not because before it was like a oh, do I have to stay up to work? Whereas after school it was like, okay, if I don't stay up then we don't have work, then we're not working. So the level of commitment, the level of respect that I had for my field, the level of understanding and I knew technical things, I mean there were subjects that I did not know, that I was passionate about I started paying more focus into my fabrics. That's when I started going into my own textiles. You know, creating that kind of communication between my clients and I and being just being able to translate that alone a milestone. And then, having having had the time to carve out a vision that is based on research, in school, you learn about you. You're forced to learn about the top 10 designers in the world and how they got there.

Kutloano Skosana: 6:24

You know faculty history was so important, and before you know I would read an article or two, but that was all the history I had. I was not really pinned down to learn and be, you know, just knowledgeable about my industry. And, yeah, I did not know how big the industry was.

Palesa Mokubung: 6:44

I think so. It's quite a discipline, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, while you're studying all these top designers, who stands out to you? Who do you want to model yourself after?

Kutloano Skosana: 6:55

oh, you know, something very traumatic happened when I was studying. You know, that's when, uh, alexandra McQueen passed away. So, yeah, that was definitely, that was definitely something that stood out for me. I was, I I had to really, you know, dive into that world, into into his world. So I think that I I realized how intense, uh, the industry can make a person and how, but also how much choice we have in allowing that to happen. I think that McQueen enjoyed being intense. So from that I learned to kind of find the balance. I said, okay, I love what I do, but I also love myself, and if I can find the balance between creating a healthy life for myself and a healthy business life that can help myself and other people, then I want to do that. So I was inspired not to be like anybody, but more to be like myself more like myself.

Palesa Mokubung: 7:59

So how do you describe your brand Mantsho?

Kutloano Skosana: 8:04

Oh, my goodness, it's grown so much. I mean, you must. 20 years, it's a long time to be building something, and other times it's at the tip of your tongue, and other times it's at the top of your head, and other times it lives in your heart, and other times so I think I've described it in so many different ways and I think that's fine, you know, at different phases of my life, yeah, but how I would describe it now, or describe the woman, at least, she is a global woman. She's a global woman who has built herself from scratch. She's really built herself, you know, piece by piece. She is a wholesome woman who is interested in the community that she comes from. She's a giver. She is very driven, but she is very humble and really, really remembers where she comes from. She values her culture, her traditions. She's authentic. She's authentic, a global and authentic woman. That is something that you have to work for. It's something that you build. It's like she's a project. She's her own project, that's who she is.

Kutloano Skosana: 9:12

She's her number one project.

Palesa Mokubung: 9:14

Right. So how do you reflect this in, let's say, the style of clothes? How is it captured?

Kutloano Skosana: 9:22

You know, we are very bold people, we're very loud, I mean, you might find, and sometimes loud is not in how we dress, sometimes it's just in our personality and just in our character as Africans. And these are like qualities that I would see from like a woman that I admire from down the road, who wears the best jackets with a stretcher skirt, and she doesn't have a very fancy job, but she she's able to. You know, put the two together and from the village now called.

Palesa Mokubung: 10:01

Yeah.

Kutloano Skosana: 10:01

I reflect that by, first of all, our just culture through the colors that we use. Yeah, because we, when I think about, you know, as South Africans, very I think of a diverse, you know, right, a very, very diverse nation. So I think a lot of color and I that I'm not very shy to draw, you know, to draw from. If I think of a, you know, a red, it's like it's a zulu blood red yeah, if I think of the royal blue.

Kutloano Skosana: 10:30

It's like I'm a postola royal blue and that's the color. That's the mantu royal blue. So when I go to print that's the, that the blueprint. If we're looking for a blue, we're not going to see which blue is trending now. No, we go to the royal blue, the one that runs through the Mantsho blood. That's the one. So it is about finding meaning. I reflect it by finding meaning in the colors that we exude ever so gracefully and wear ever so gracefully as Africans, as South Africans. I expressed that through just our love for layering. You know, if you think of a suture woman, she will wear everything, everything.

Kutloano Skosana: 11:26

She will wear her treasure, the first layer, everything she will wear her treasure, the first layer, and then she will wear the apron, and then she will wear the blanket on the shoulder and then she will wear the head wrap, and then she will wear a hat over the head wrap and then like if we do accessories.

Kutloano Skosana: 11:47

we don't do one little bracelet. We pack it. Oh gosh, yeah, you know we pack it up. Oh gosh, yeah, I think about it. In South Africa, we love to throw things over our shoulders. Maybe that is why I have a long line of collars that you can just throw over your shoulder. It's like it's a sign of respect for yourself, it is a sign of just giving yourself. You know the epilat, you know it's a sign of pride. And so it's those little, you know little nuances that I take from different cultures that I incorporate in my designs.

Palesa Mokubung: 12:30

Yeah, hey, it's Shades and Layers, and I'm speaking to South African fashion designer Palesa Mokubung about her brand, Mantsho. She attributes her success to being ready for any eventuality, positive or negative, and she believes that this is what made her collaboration with the global fast fashion brand H&M a success. Let's find out how that collaboration came about and how everything unfolded.

Kutloano Skosana: 12:56

H&M came after I'd been in the industry for about 15 years, so I'd had my head down for quite a while, first as an untrained designer and then a qualified designer, and then a designer who is now all about her business and is building from dress to dress now, and I think they came in about five years after I had gotten my qualification and created this new business. I mean, I looked at my business as a new business after. Right, it felt like a new business. I spoke a different language, I presented it better, I packaged. I actually packaged my business, whereas before it was just something that I loved, that I was just doing, but I had started packaging my business. So I think that what H&M was looking for was the full package. They were looking for someone. Yeah, they were looking for the full package and I presented that because I had had the focus to package my business and I did it at the right time.

Kutloano Skosana: 13:56

But how it came about is that I I mean, they reached out to me on Instagram. Hey, oh, insta, it's not fancy. I mean it's really not fancy. It's so not fancy, but I think it was a WhatsApp. Actually, I think it was a WhatsApp. Someone sent me just an odd WhatsApp. Hey, do you want to? I work at H&M. I'll be in Joburg next week. Can we have a meeting? No way, I promise you. And then and then listen to this I was pregnant with my first daughter. So I thought, okay, I'll, I'll take the meeting. But but H&M had been on everyone's radar because the a couple of months, or, you know, less than a year before it, it year before it, it was in the in the hot water. Oh, there was a controversy around it. So I thought, you know, h&m, I had a. I cringed a little bit to even just take a meeting with H&M, because I know how I felt you know about.

Palesa Mokubung: 14:52

It was the ad, yeah, the ad with the black kid, yeah, but I was like okay, I was like, okay, it's just a meeting.

Kutloano Skosana: 14:59

And then I went and they, you know, I met. I met someone from the local team and they expressed a possible collaboration. I had no idea what that looked. I didn't even know that they were doing those collaborations. I learned then that they had been having collaborations that were very popular. It was very short-lived. It's very, it's very like punchy collaborate like three months.

Palesa Mokubung: 15:20

And they sell out immediately.

Kutloano Skosana: 15:21

Very limited stock, yeah, and they sell out and then they move on. So I took the meeting and I didn't think much of it and and there were follow up calls that the global team came to South Africa still did not think much of it, but what I loved about it is that I was ready for it. So anything that they asked for and they asked for, that they asked for and they asked for everything they asked for. You know, financials for the last, you know, three years, five years. They asked for everything they wanted I had at the press of a button, literally at the press of a button, and I did not know.

Kutloano Skosana: 15:52

I've always known that obviously I'm special and I'm going to have a moment. I did not know when that moment would be, and after 15 years, you begin to think, oh, if it's going to happen ever. But by a moment, though, I mean like a moment where you have not for popularity, but to stand for something, to have an opportunity to change people's minds about something, to have an opportunity to show them a new way of thinking. And I think that's what the collaboration did for me. Is that, because it came after such a controversy, I could actually stand up and be like listen, if I didn't do this collaboration, someone else would have. That's the first thing, but I'm glad that it's me, because someone has to stand up and say, okay, so that has happened. How do we move forward? How do we move forward? What did we want before this? Can we go back to now? You know those conversations. It doesn't have to stop here and it doesn't, and this is. It's a big moment, you know, for the continent.

Kutloano Skosana: 17:01

That's what I found when the news broke out is that I thought my people would be happy for me, but I realized that the whole world, the very same world that was upset, the entire world that was upset, the entire world was now so happy that this was happening and I think that it just symbolized just something so incredibly good. It symbolized second chances, first of all, deserved or not, but it symbolized them. I loved being a part of that conversation. That's one. I also loved the fact that they chose me.

Kutloano Skosana: 17:34

I had often felt like a underground sort of, you know, an underdog. I had felt like an underdog and I loved that they did not go for someone who was already well known, right, they went for someone who was deserving and they did the research because I was deserving. You know, I was the girl who started with Stoned Cherrie. I was the girl who had been, who had lost everything, so they could just start making one dress again. And they sat down with me to hear and learn about those stories. But they also they knew so much about me when they came to me it was very genuine. Obviously this is not something that people knew, but it is not a relationship also that I would have gotten into if it was not a good relationship.

Palesa Mokubung: 18:25

Yeah, so there was something authentic about that interaction. They were so sensitive.

Kutloano Skosana: 18:30

You know I was pregnant also, you must remember, with my first baby and I'm 38 years old, so I could have given up anything just to have my baby. So the fact that I could, you know just my. I wanted that more than I wanted a break, right.

Palesa Mokubung: 18:46

But they came at the same time.

Kutloano Skosana: 18:48

So to have a company that and it's not just them, I think it's a Sweden thing. You know, it's a Swedish company company and I think it's a. Sweden thing that they are so caring when it comes to and so kind when it comes to women, and you know and oh yeah, I mean, that's my experience.

Palesa Mokubung: 19:11

It's definitely my experience. Yeah, I had basically birthing two kids.

Kutloano Skosana: 19:16

Yeah, my company was birthing the biggest break, and I was having my first baby and it was such a smooth process and I think it's because the timing was perfect. I love that they had huge, they had. They had like such strict sustainability laws. There was just so many things that were aligned. Eh, like it was just one of those um partnerships that were really, really, really written in the stars.

Palesa Mokubung: 19:56

Yeah yeah, everything came together at the right time oh that's nice, that's nice yeah but let's say, let's look at other milestones that you've had, uh, during this journey into the fashion business. Um, are there any, maybe two more that stand out that have made this journey worthwhile?

Kutloano Skosana: 20:15

Oh, my goodness, I think I've had. I mean, I'm standing in my office and I'm looking at how many two, four, six, eight I'm looking at 10 fashion awards.

Palesa Mokubung: 20:24

Wonderful yeah.

Kutloano Skosana: 20:26

I have a few right and I'm just trying to see which one kind of stands out for me. I mean, it's anything from. Actually. I mean, these are words that just now, just standing in my office, but I, if I have to think about them, I guess they meant something to someone at some point. For me, some of the achievements that I'm very proud of are not even here. I can't even. Yeah, they're not represented with a, they don't have a shining mark at the top of the shelf. There are some cool projects that we've done, that I've, that have meant a lot to me, that are not, you know, largely talked about. Yeah, I mean I, I, I did a wardrobe for coming to america.

Kutloano Skosana: 21:06

That was really good, I did yeah um, I mean, that was, that was big, actually, that really, that was really cool for me.

Palesa Mokubung: 21:13

That was quite good.

Kutloano Skosana: 21:13

It was cool for me because it was like a little childhood dream, you know, coming through. So it's something that tickled me. Not really didn't really do much for the world, didn't really, but it tickled me. I mean I would have to ask my team. There's so many things that I do. Let me just say this because I'm so passionate about what I do do. Let me just say this because I'm so passionate about what I do For me. If we make a jacket and it's a success, I'm like, oh my God, I'm a winner. But things that I guess could mean something to the world is that I've been on the Forbes stage. You know I've given a. I've been on the Forbes stage, forbes Women's Conference stage. I think that I do a lot of work with interns. I love that Again not popular not popular info?

Kutloano Skosana: 21:56

Yeah, but I do. I work with the school here and I've been taking interns for the last maybe five years. I take two to three interns a year. I train them and then I take new ones and I love it. It's done so much for so many young people, something that's very close to my heart, that I would have to send them to you. I mean, I can't think of.

Palesa Mokubung: 22:18

No problem, yeah, I mean.

Kutloano Skosana: 22:20

I travel the world, I showcase my clothes, but there's nothing glamorous about it. Sure, maybe I'm glamorous when I'm doing it, but it's real work. Yeah, it's like it's me trying to do it. Maybe it's real work. Yeah, yeah, it's like it's me trying to do it. Maybe I'm glamorous when I'm doing it, but it it is not. It's not glamorous at all. It's me really really trying to build a company that can feed families, and that's what I'm very, very proud of.

Kutloano Skosana: 22:45

Yeah, Having been able to sustain my business for so long, having workers that have been with me for 12 years, having it's little things. That's why I'm like it's not what you think.

Palesa Mokubung: 22:58

I know you want me to say no, no, no, I mean whatever it means to you. Actually, I am more aiming for the things that are meaningful to you. You know it's things that mean something to me.

Kutloano Skosana: 23:10

Showcasing all over the world is wonderful, but it's a lot of work. I'm about to do something that I'm going to be very, very proud of, though I'll tell you that much because it's a dream I'm doing a trade show in Paris.

Kutloano Skosana: 23:23

Wonderful, and it's something I've always wanted to do, just because it is important to open ourselves up to the global market, ourselves up to the global market. I did H&M in 2019. And then and I was really looking forward to doing a global tour to all the top markets you know that the collection reached. It reached years and I was not able to everything shut down 2020, everything shut down 2021. So I just I feel like no, it's just something that I wanted to do and I kind of put that on the back seat a little bit and allowed the world to do the change that it needed to change, because the world has changed.

Kutloano Skosana: 24:03

it's not what it was 2019 absolutely yeah, yeah or last year yeah it's changed so much and I I've just been watching and learning new trades and I'm ready to start attending and kind of reaching out to the world in a way that is current yeah, doing business in a current way. So I'm doing my first trade show next week in Paris and then I've got another one later in the month and I'm hoping for more. But it's all about the global market. Sure, it's all about taking it's all about globalizing the brand.

Palesa Mokubung: 24:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which brings me to the idea of making it on a global stage for an African designer. I mean, we've seen a lot of, you know, accolades, lvmh, et cetera. So you know what's your take on that? When you say an African designer has made it, what does that look like? And yeah, what does it mean for the African continent, the ecosystem on the African?

Kutloano Skosana: 25:07

continent. Sure, when you say an African designer has made it, what does that look like? I think it would mean different things for each designer. I think when an African designer has made, in my opinion, if an African designer has made it, it would be if they could carry. I mean, I think that the Marcosa is doing really good. I think that is a good example of what an African designer making it looks like.

Kutloano Skosana: 25:34

And I say this mainly for a couple of points. One, they are a conscious brand. They are very aware of the amount of work that they produce and the waste that they produce, and they try to curb that as much as they could. Um, it's something that should bother more people, um, but I don't think it does. Just, waste in the fashion industry is is a major.

Kutloano Skosana: 26:02

I mean, I I traveled last year to a recycling uh uh company in portugal, not last two years ago, and I just I I still can't everything that I saw there, just how much waste cause, just as as the fashion industry. So I cannot just imagine other industries. So so for me to have that mind and to that, to have that as like a core principle of of the business, for me is like such a great example of an African leader, creative leader one. The other point is, obviously, you know employment, if you can take people with you and employ and provide employment for as many people as you possibly can. For me, that is an example of an African designer who has made it. Making it on your own across the seas and you are doing something on your own is just living a nice life. That's not an African designer making it. An African designer making it is a designer that makes a difference in the lives of other Africans.

Palesa Mokubung: 27:19

Great. So that brings me to financing this whole business. You know you're going to a trade show. We have a Department of Trade and Industry. You know I mean all of this. No one's come to the party. Yeah, hey, we have a Department of Trade and Industry. And you know I mean all of this. No one's come to the party girl.

Kutloano Skosana: 27:36

No one's come to the party.

Palesa Mokubung: 27:37

Okay, I was hoping you'd say something different Just before you ask me. Let me tell you the answer.

Kutloano Skosana: 27:42

Let me tell you the answer before you ask me no one's come to the party. Okay, we sent out the emails and we also have, have, you know, a day-to-day business to run, so you can't be chasing. Sure, um, you send out what you can to who you can. You, you know the contacts are there, you know the channels are there, but if you're not getting word on the other side, you do it yourself. That's why you have to be very savvy with your money. You always have to save something for a rainy day.

Kutloano Skosana: 28:08

Um, as a as a business, um, as a business, as an entrepreneur, you always have to have something for a rainy day, because opportunities just can just spring up on you and you need to be able to do it. So some of these opportunities are funded. Obviously, you know that you are catered for, but it's like sometimes like an 80-20 situation Sure, so we will give you, um, you will be able to trade, we'll cover those expenses, we'll, you know, accommodations covered, but you've got to fly yourself and get your collection there and get your insurances and and it can add up if you're not on, if you're not ready for it, you won't be able to do it. So most of the time you're alone. You're alone, you're doing this on your own. That's why you have to have, that's why financial literacy is so important. But sometimes just learning the hard way is illiteracy. Just learning the hard way is good enough, and that is the school I've been at. I'm still learning. I've just learned the hard way.

Kutloano Skosana: 29:17

That's a very good school, right, um? And then obviously you have to have, uh, you know, someone in finance that you speak to. You have to have someone in all areas of your business. I mean I, I mean, I have a board of directors. They, I did not, I did not appoint them to the like. They don't know that they're my board of directors, but they are, you know.

Kutloano Skosana: 29:43

I love that they don't know, they just don't. They don't know. But they've been my board of directors for years. Like I don't move unless they say you can do it. I don't.

Palesa Mokubung: 29:52

Right.

Kutloano Skosana: 29:53

But they don't move unless they say you can do it. I don't right, they don't know this. No, I have. I have a great, great uh uh, you know support uh system when it comes to different areas of of my uh business life and it has helped me so much because I started as a baby designer and along the way you meet people who you get introduced to, people who change your life for that moment and it is up to you to keep that relationship going. Later you find that you've created a little hub and a family and directors, people who've been showing you the way without having to by just being a student. When it comes to business, I don't have a background in business. I don't Everything that I'm creating, I just it's intuition. Sure, right, right, just to start, the brand was intuition business. I don't everything that I'm creating I've, I just it's intuition.

Kutloano Skosana: 30:54

Sure, my right, right just to start the brand was intuition. Just everything that I've, the decisions I've made, have been based on you know tuition of, you know intuition and you know support and you know advise and you know prayer and you know hard work and you know support not only from you know hard work and you know support not only from you know support from just my workers you know my employees.

Kutloano Skosana: 31:18

So it takes a whole entire village. That saying it doesn't only apply in the family setting. It applies when it comes to business on the. African continent.

Palesa Mokubung: 31:32

No one makes it alone. It really takes a village.

Kutloano Skosana: 31:35

Yeah, it's taken a village. So where do I get the money? I save it. You know I've got a small addiction. I've got a slight addiction. Tell me, I like to save money. I like to save money, it's my thing.

Palesa Mokubung: 31:49

Your little squirrel yeah.

Kutloano Skosana: 31:52

It's the thing that I do. That's the thing that I do. Uh, just because there was a time, you know the reason I went to school when I reached the ceiling. Yeah, I reached the ceiling and went straight to rock bottom, can you?

Palesa Mokubung: 32:06

see that in your head, absolutely. I mean, I know how broke you can be after studies. I mean, I went for a midlife update.

Kutloano Skosana: 32:18

This is before. This is before the reason. I got up and I said what am I going to do? And school seemed like the only way, and I didn't have the money to do it. But at least I had the will. At least I had the will. It's because I had reached the ceiling and I went straight to rock bottom. So I have been at a place where I don't have any money to even just dream, to just do the things that I want to do and to just. I've been broke and since then I said okay, this lesson is not only about all the other things, but it's a lesson about money and I'm going to learn it.

Palesa Mokubung: 32:56

And I'm not going to be.

Kutloano Skosana: 32:57

I don't want to find myself in this position again because of who I am in the society. If I want to be the person who is employing and helping people and creating jobs, I've got to be responsible. When it comes to money, I'm just like I'm going to have to just grab these opportunities, you know when they come. So, paris, all these things, I do them out of the business, my own capacity.

Palesa Mokubung: 33:21

And that brings us to the end of part one of this conversation with Palesa Mokubung. Thanks for listening and keep an eye out for the second and final part. Be the first to find out when it drops by subscribing to the Shades and Layers newsletter on shadesandlayerscom, or follow the show wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening. I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci and until next time, please do take good care.