The Divorced Dadvocate: Divorce Support For Dads
The Divorced Dadvocate: Divorce Support For Dads is a weekly podcast designed specifically for fathers navigating divorce. It addresses the unique challenges men face and offers practical guidance, emotional support, and real-life insights to help dads survive — and ultimately thrive — during and after divorce.
Each episode combines honest conversation, personal stories, and action-oriented advice to help listeners rebuild confidence, create healthy co-parenting strategies, manage finances, navigate court complexities, and heal emotionally. Since launching in 2020, the show has become a trusted resource and supportive community for divorced and divorcing dads.
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DISCLAIMER: The purpose of this podcast is to inform, not influence. It is not a substitute for professional care or advice by a qualified professional. The host, as well as guests who speak on this podcast, express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions, and The Divorced Dadvocate podcast & website neither endorses nor opposes any particular views discussed here.
The Divorced Dadvocate: Divorce Support For Dads
288 - What If The Pain Is Your Path To Becoming The Dad Your Kids Need
Divorce can feel like a blender: everything loud, spinning, and out of your control. Yet beneath the chaos is a path that can lead to a stronger you and a better relationship with your kids. That path starts with vision. When dads picture life after divorce—how they parent, how they co-parent, how they live—clarity replaces panic. A vision is not a fantasy; it’s a compass. From that picture, you can map steps, build skills, and design an environment that supports your goals. It’s the shift from reacting to leading. And leadership is the role your kids need you to claim, even when the courtroom muddies your confidence.
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All right, fellas. This is Jude, and I hope that you had a very Merry Christmas. I am still taking a little break, a much needed little break from recording new episodes. But I wanted to provide you with some good content this week. So I am sharing with you the recording of an episode that I recorded with our friend Anthony Thompson of Divorced Dads of America. I appeared on his podcast about a month ago. And we had a really great, wide-ranging conversation. So I wanted to share that with you. Also encourage you to check out Anthony's work at Divorced Dads of America. You can find him on Instagram and the podcast and all of his other stuff there. He is a tremendous ally for divorced dads. So please check that out. And I also want to wish you a very happy new year coming up here. I hope to connect further with y'all this next year in 2026. I will be back with some new episodes coming up here next week. So have a very happy new year and enjoy this episode.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome aboard, everybody. This is Divorced Ads of America, the rebuild. I'm your host, Anthony Thompson, founder of Divorced As of America, and today is going to be a good one. We've got the founder of the Divorced Advocate. We've got Jude, he's here. We're going to have an interview. I'm going to expose as much of some of these secrets that most guys aren't aware of. And I want to get straight into it. I've got some laser shots that I'm going to fire at him right from the go. So buckle up, get your ears ready, get ready for maybe at the end, some questions that you'll need to know and that you can take on your own for takeaway to dig further. Because I always believe that each and every episode should do exactly those things. So I'm going to introduce Jude. We're going to fly into this thing, and then you're going to get your minds blown in a few minutes. So here's a little bit about Jude so you know where he's coming from. I first and foremost would say, man, like he's he's been there a lot longer. He's go he going through a divorce is one of the hardest challenges a man can face. But Jude doesn't have to do it alone. Here, let me let me let me start this again with Jude's intro because I wrote two. I actually wrote three, but I want to give the right one because this is what Jude does. Going through a divorce is one of the hardest challenges a man can face, but do you have to do it alone? Guest today, Divorced Advocate, a platform built to guide fathers through the chaos of custody, co-parenting, rebuilding their lives. He's a champion for dads who want to build a bright new future for themselves and their kids. Please welcome my guy today, Jude Sandoval. And let me say this in addition, because I always like to acknowledge guests and what's going on with him. Jude's a rock star in this space. He's been doing it for a long time. His podcast is the top podcast in this space that you need to get on and immediately. In addition, we're going to talk through some of the stuff that he has that's going to absolutely give you more tools in the toolkit so that you don't have to wander around like a zombie going into 2026. So, first question, Jude, that I want to fire right at you just from the go, and then we'll dig into your story a little bit more. But what's a question that you wish divorced dads asked you, but they don't?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's a great question. First, Anthony, I want to thank you for hosting me on the on the show here. I'm usually on the other end with, like you mentioned, with the podcast. So it's nice to just show up and and look pretty and and uh get blasted with some some good questions like that. So what is the the first what is the number one question? I think the number one question I I wish dads would would ask is what is life going to look like post-divorce? Yeah. Because when you're in the middle of the chaos, when you're going through all of it, and the emotions are running high, you might be feeling sad or angry or upset. Uh the kids are are challenging, and you're dealing with having to learn how to maybe be a single dad when you've had a partner before. Your ex might be just giving you a hassle, making false allegations, alienating the kids. It's so hard to have any semblance of an idea of what post-divorce looks like. And I can tell you here now, after 12 and a half years, post-divorce, no matter how challenging it is going through it or after, can be absolutely amazing, particularly your relationship with your kiddos and what that looks like. So I guess maybe looking, and this is one of the things we do as as coaches, and when I do with with dad's coaching, whether it's in a group setting or individually, is we create that vision for them post-divorce. So I kind of work them through that. I wish they'd show up and wanting to look and see that, but it's really hard to see the the forest for the trees when you're going through that. Because, man, let me tell you, I know all about that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, let's let's jump in there, Jude, because uh, you know, you told me a little bit about your story, and let's give the audience some context about the blender. I always tell I always talk to dads that it's a blender, man, when you're in it. It's a blizzard. And like you said, seeing through the storm, what was it like? Give us some of those details from you. What was that like for you and your story?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the blender is a great way. I call it chaos, it can't call it a storm. Like all of those things are accurate descriptions of going through a divorce, particularly if you're in a high-conflict divorce and or you're dealing with somebody that might have some significant mental emotional issues, maybe an addiction, etc. And so I was the guy that was never gonna get divorced. My parents were divorced, each of them. My dad was divorced twice. My grandparents on both sides were divorced. So this was gonna end, right, with with me and and and my family. And you know what? Just tell God what you want, or tell God you got a plan, and then you know what's gonna happen. It's gonna be something that's that's completely what he wants and not what not what you want. And so it just got to such a bad place in my divorce with some addictions and infidelity and and and other things that it got to the point where I I had to file for for divorce. And it was the literally at the time, Anthony, for me, it was the worst possible thing that I could ever be doing for myself, for my family. I had so much shame around the around the life that I thought was going to be my daughter's life post-divorce. I had created the perfect life, right? I followed the the script, I had gotten married, had the business, had the house, had the two cars, the on the boards in the community and rotary club, and all of that. And so that was all just crumbling apart. And that then just turned into more than 10, well, 12 and a half years. It's been now it's kind of settled down over the past year and a half, two years, but really over a decade of just dealing with divorce and family law court and attorneys and all this and emotions, right? Like your your own stuff, which we we talked about before, and and dealing and learning with all of all of that stuff. And so my goal now has been to create a community for dads to come in wherever you're at in the process, whatever your financial situation looks like, to find some support. We've got free to paid uh opportunities and and stuff for for guys to to get the information that they need going through this because man, it it's brutal. And it's the the reason the reason why it's voted like one of the top two or three most stressful things in somebody can ever experience is because it is, and it's massively difficult.
SPEAKER_00:Totally, totally it is. And and Jude, when you said something there, you know, you're walking through it, you high conflict, like you said before. Uh some of the things that that I would love to dig into a little bit is at what moment when you you go in through everything, it's high conflict, it it's you're probably spending money out the wazoo like all our all all our dads are. At what point then did you decide like, hey, I need help? What what what where did that where did that come into play for you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so Anthony, I was the guy that didn't ask for help. Yeah. So I went through all this. I didn't right there with you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna I was gonna suck it up. You know, the the that traditional masculine idea of you men don't cry, you're gonna suck it up, you're gonna you're gonna grind through it, etc. That was totally, totally me. So I literally went through this and made I if it wasn't every single mistake, it was a high, a high, a high percentage of the mistakes that you can make going through this process. And so it I don't think it really struck me until years later that I decided that I needed to get some help, get some therapy, get some coaching, uh, get into a 12-step program for codependency, like start really reaching out. And that's and then shortly after that, when I saw the impact that that had just on me, I remember step, I remember Anthony stepping into the the the first uh codependent anonymous meeting. And I literally was sitting there, I didn't say a word. Yeah, I was sitting there listening to all these people talking, going, are they reading my mind? Yeah, I this is all the stuff that's going through my head. I must not be crazy. And it's really the first time that I felt like I wasn't I wasn't crazy. Because if you do self-isolate, which I I know you know, yeah, then you start wondering, well, hey, am I the only one going through this? If I don't have a community around me that's sharing, like the community that that you've built and the community that I've built, that you're talking to the guys and you're sharing and you're and and you're you're getting the support that that you need, you literally think that that you're crazy going through this stuff because it is so stressful. And stress does crazy stuff to your mind.
SPEAKER_00:Crazy, dude. It's it it again puts your mind in a blender. So you're in this, I love hearing this story, Jude, because you're you're you're in the place and I'm in the place. But I think so many times guys think that you and I, you know, just sort of had a magic unicorn that we wrote off into a rainbow and it just didn't it it it didn't hit us or anything. So I I when you say that kind of stuff, what what I love to kind of dig into a little bit more is you you finally get into this process of getting help. What were some of your enemies, or we could call them enemies, we could call them uh distractions, we can call them addictions. What are some of those addictions that you walk through and what were some of the thoughts that allowed you to continue in some of those things, those patterns?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I I joke that I'm not addicted to anything, but I've basically tried everything. Yeah, you just go from one to the other. It's like, oh, that was interesting. Well, let's try this. Well, that's interesting. Well, uh, I'm done with this. Let's like I don't get addicted to anything, I just keep trying all the the new stuff, which is just yeah, absolutely, absolutely crazy. Like, I have some more I have res I have respect for people who just pick one. It's like you pick one and you just stuck with it. Like I didn't pick anything, right? Yeah, good for you. You went all out and you became an addict in this, right? Good for you. So, but you know, to well, what was I saying? Oh, getting you know, getting help is it is so so freaking important to to to to get the the the the help and we have all of these things that are distracting us all of the time. And depending on what your what your your mindset is, what your your childhood experiences are, how you grew up, the messages that that were wired into you from childhood to early adult life, we all go through this in a different manner. So we all go through this divorce in a different manner. Yours was different than mine, and different every single guy that's listening to to us talk today, it's it's all different. However, there are some very, very common things that that that happen, the the the stress and how we handle stress, how we show up, things that we can control, things that we can't control, like all the stuff that you talk about on this podcast and in your group and I do, and and so many people do. So it's it's it's just like anything that we that we try for the first time. Hopefully you haven't gone through divorce more than once, but even if you've gone through it once or twice, anything that you do once or twice, you don't do really well right away. It takes a long time. And just like if we're learning to maybe ride a motorcycle, we're learning how to get healthy and use weights in in the gym, you can figure all that stuff out, YouTube university, like you can do all that, you can fix the brakes on your car. Yeah, but if you want a faster track to trying to get through this in a in a healthier and less traumatic way, and actually have that life 2.0 that I just described, that can be absolutely glorious. You got to find somebody that that can help you through that. And fortunately, there's guys like you that have dedicated their lives to to doing this now, and it's becoming more and more common that we're getting more people. That's my goal. That's why you know we've been talking. You came on my show, I'm on your show. I want to talk to as many guys that are doing work in this space because unfortunately, the divorce isn't going away. It's be it's become commonplace and and almost socially almost unfortunately socially accepted. And so the more people that we have, like you and I, in the space that are helping guys get through this, I feel like we can have an impact that actually helps families, particularly children, right, see resiliency in their fathers that get through a difficult and challenging time and come out of this absolutely even better on the back end of it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, good, dude. Let let's look at because we're going into the holidays, and I I would say holidays is the ultimate numb moments for dads, especially if your kids are away. So this year, my kids aren't with me. And so I just remember the last patterns of years when it's not been there and just the what I've had to put in place to be able to identify what the numb was for me. Some years was was we gummies, good night, off in a galaxy far, far away. Some some year a couple years it was just drinking and and you know blew the blew the night away and and you know, hope I don't forget. So I I'd love to know on and and then and then I usually would tell myself, you know what, it's been hard. I deserve it. And like you, I wasn't addicted, I was addicted to being not addicted. So it wasn't like something I did all the time, but it was an escape that was this stress that I had, and it wasn't used into the man that I wanted to become. So when I throw that to you, Jude, what are what are what are some things that you had to go through in the numb process? And then what was it like getting out of that? So that because because this is it, man. The next from here to the end of the year, most guys are just gonna cash out because that's that's how they're wired. We're wired most guys to numb out, and then we're mostly just also told that it's okay, man, you're under a lot of stress. So yeah, where do you where do you land on that? What what was your what was your way of moving through that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, I just want to acknowledge something you just said a little bit earlier, which is that we didn't have it together going going through this, and and me in particular, and I try to be very open and vulnerable with guys. There's there were times during this process I literally couldn't get out of bed. And I would just lay in bed for for the good part of the day. There were times that during this process that I cry myself to sleep. And so just dads that are listening, this stuff is going on. It's happening to every guy that is going through divorce. Every dad that is going through divorce is experiencing the same things that that you're going through. Because Anthony and I can show up and articulate about how to do it better now doesn't mean that we weren't in that that that muck and that mire going through it. And so just have some grace with yourself, knowing that this is part of the process and that's okay. That's okay. But you you are going to get through it. God has made you strong enough to get through that. So there's no question in my mind, and I tell every guy this is difficult and as challenging and as hopeless as you feel, you are strong enough to get through this for sure. So I just wanted to acknowledge that. And now that I've acknowledged that, Anthony, I completely forgot what your question was.
SPEAKER_00:My question was just in the numbing season and in those numbing moments. Okay, back to the holiday. Yeah, like what was it? Okay, what was it for you? Then what did it sound like? And then what how did you how did you ultimately like walk through that? Like, was there somebody that you know linked up with you? Because I know accountability for me is is the gateway drug to freedom. So I just once I started to do that, you know, but I'm curious, your journey, how did that work out?
SPEAKER_01:Well, holidays are are brutal, right? Because you've you've created this life uh around family. For me, everything is about relationships. So having all these relationships fall away, which is a common thing during during divorce. Your friends that you thought were friends go away. You didn't the 90% of them, right? 95% of them. And it's not and that's not a reflection on on you because there's just no formalized way to go through divorce and nobody knows how to handle it. And it's more of a reflection on the other person and and their ability to communicate or or not communicate. And then the holidays come and and you've got your identity wrapped around being a father and showing up and maybe playing Santa and doing, and so it's just so hard. And you want to literally, it's so much pain, man. It's so much pain. And when we get in pain, we don't want pain, we're wired to avoid pain just physiologically, right? We want to avoid pain. That's how our our brains work. We get into fear, in the fight, flight, or or or freeze. So, because we want to avoid any any of the any of that pain. And and so just know, guys, that you are in pain and that's okay. But recognize that. You've got to recognize that in all the things that Anthony and I talked about, which is whatever if it's drugs or overworking or something else, you need to be in that pain. You need to recognize it and then build the tools that will help you to get through that and then actually utilize that in order to create that that better life post-divorce. Because it can be just like when you get into the gym, that that pain that you feel when you first start working out or first start working out, and your muscles are really sore and it hurts like hell. And sometimes you're walking like a penguin because you just did a legs day, right? But you know you're gonna get stronger and you're gonna look bigger, you're gonna look better, and all the the benefits from being healthier and looking better and being mentally and physically in better shape and showing up for your kids, like all of that stuff is is going to help. That's the same with your mental and your mental and emotional state. So just know the pain that you're in is is a building block for you to that that next level. You're literally leveling up, guys, going through this. And it's I know that's really hard to grasp when you're in the in the midst of it, but you are leveling up as you go through this divorce. You're being forced, you're being forced to level up, whether you like it or or not, right? Like, like for my my circumstances, I was never, this was not ever gonna be this level up was never in my plans, Anthony. Right? Like I was this is not, and and if it was, it was not how I planned the to level up. I had a million other plans, but just know that you're leveling up to something that's bigger and and and greater. And so, you know, that I I think probably for me, so now hitting the question of what was kind of a realization for. Me relationship relationship is really important for me. Relationship with my children, relationship with others, with uh it was with my family and with my with my wife. And so I went through a couple of relationships post-divorce. I did the again, I said I did everything wrong, right? I started dating immediately, like during the divorce. Had a couple of relationships post-divorce, which was absolutely insanity. Don't do that, guys. Wait, get through this, figure your stuff out. There's a right way and a wrong, there truly is a right way and a wrong way to go through the dating part of this post-divorce. Don't start dating right away. But I had some failed, a couple of failed ones, which anybody that's listening that's been in a relationship post-divorce, that failed one just post-divorce is almost equally, if not more painful than the divorce itself. And so it finally got to the point where I was like, Well, there's a common denominator in in this. The same woman keeps showing up in my life. Well, it you know, it must be me that's attracting this. So I need to stop. And that's when I started doing the work on the with the codependency and and then started seeing some of these trends, how I was showing up, the relational dynamic that I was in, not just with my my ex-wife, but with the women I dated post-divorce, with my children in my work, like because all this relational dynamic that might be might be spotlighted now with your soon-to-be ex or your ex is probably something that's cultivating in the rest of the rest of your life. So again, back to what you said, stripping away all of these distractions or addictions is really the biggest thing, and learning to let those emotions coming up come up, and then what to do with those emotions is probably the a number one thing you can do. And if that's during this holiday season, then do it during this holiday season. Cry if you need to cry, get angry if you need to get angry, sad if you like all of those emotions, let them come up, deal with them, and then start building those skills. Awesome, dude.
SPEAKER_00:I want to jump into the high conflict part because I know there's a lot of people that are in this space and going through it. And I think again, in the holidays, everything is times 10 because of all the memories and everything that we've gone through. And so the the one question I want to throw your way here on this is what's the one mistake that silently defines a man as the bad guy in a high conflict divorce without him realizing it?
SPEAKER_01:So probably these days, based upon our our society, is that he's too authoritarian, right? And and this is something that is troublesome to me because I'm seeing this a lot in family law court, and there's really and they're starting to they're starting to tr attempt to codify this, and it's just another another attempt to diminish fatherhood as well as take kids away from from fathers who provide something that is very, very critical in a kid's life. I think, Anthony, we can both agree that mothers and fathers both bring unique things to parenting children. I think anybody that uh believes in God's design, anybody that rationally has parented with with a woman knows that there are things that they do much better with kids than than we do. And that's also the same thing with with dads. There are things that we bring and we provide to being a being a parent, being a father, that mothers can't and nobody else can provide to children. And so I think fatherhood in general has been diminished, and oftentimes fatherhood is now with this authoritarian versus authoritative kind of mindset. It's it's it's okay for you to provide structure, uh, to provide discipline, to provide direction to your kids. That's what we do. Uh the way I've the way that I've heard it described is men think about family and their children in the future. Women think about family and their children in the present, right? They're worried and concerned about their well-being, right? Now we're worried about what are what's going to happen to them when they're 18 and 19 and 20. Are they going to be able to be healthy, functioning adults? Right? That's the that's the masculine mindset. And so the biggest thing I would say to guys is be a dad. That's okay. You can still be a dad. Don't be uh afraid of the family law court, although you should be wary of the family law court and attorneys and what's going on and the process, uh, but you can mitigate some of that by getting involved in your program, in my community, with other dads that have gone through it, right? Not just getting attorney. There's way more that goes into divorce, into divorce. And this is one of those little nuances when you show up in court and they're painting you as a bad dad because you disciplined your kids and you're losing parenting time because of it. That's a huge, huge problem because that has a direct impact to the future of your children if you're not if you are not involved in your kids' lives at least a certain part of the of the time. So I would say just be wary of that and pay attention to that, that the narratives that start to happen during divorce, yeah, uh, especially if you're with somebody that has some mental emotional issues. And here, and I'll just end on this. Here's the red flag, Anthony. Yes. If your wife, soon to be ex, does not 100% encourage your children and your relationship, then there's a significant mental emotional issue going on. Unless, of course, there's some kind of significant physical abuse that's happening. But I know if they're listening to this podcast or anything else, that's not happening.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, good. You know what, as you were saying that, Jude, I want to I want to jump into this back to the future moment for you because because you were in that situation, and we know a lot a lot of dads are in there. The question I have for you, Jude, is what advice would you have given yourself now, back then, about this high conflict situation? Well, what would you have said to yourself then?
SPEAKER_01:I what I said in the beginning, which is you're strong enough to get through this. Yeah. Would you have done anything different? Oh, yeah, like a ton of things different. What are like the top three that you would have done differently? Well, the top thing I would have done is I would have I would have sought out help.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I would have sought I would have sought out help. I literally had one friend going through this process, and it's great to have a friend, but friends have their own their own issues, their own lens and through which through which they look at things. And so a lot of his advice was horrible. Sure. So just keep that in mind. Friends and family's advice is okay, but a lot of times it can just be horrible and actually more damaging. What I would have what I would have liked somebody to say is okay, stop, don't hire an attorney first. Let's look at this from a holistic approach and fit and figure out what you've got going on. You've got all, especially in high conflict. If you've got high conflict going on, there are a lot of things that you need to be aware about, and and you are going to probably need to fight for. And that was the other thing is like I wanted to be the nice guy, I wanted to settle this, right? I wouldn't want to, I didn't want this to be, I didn't want this to be high conflict. But as you know, it only takes one person to have conflict, right? And sometimes in this process, you're literally like negotiating with the terrorists. So they want you dead, and you want to get through things in a nice way. Like it's not gonna happen. So there's things that are gonna are are gonna have to change. So so find somebody that can help you again, yeah, wrapping back to what we talked about. Uh get involved in a community or get some support, whether that's a uh it could be a divorce group, it can be a divorce church group, it can be a 12-step group, it can just be a men's group. Like you'd be surprised. I talk to clients all the time. Hey, be vulnerable, open up about your divorce, and they start doing it. And guys are like, Yeah, man, like I experienced that. Let me tell you about this. And then there becomes this camaraderie around being able to share that stuff and open up about that stuff. And then it's almost like I said when I sat in that first meeting, uh, a weight just like falls off your shoulders.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Jude, let me throw this at you. As you were talking, I think this is a this could be a great moment because I think a lot of a lot of dads are are listening or however they're watching this scenario and and they're trying to imagine what the heck this is supposed to look like. I think it'd be great, Jude, because I know you you mentioned like what you do and the divorced advocate. Can you walk us through a scenario that you've had with a client without using their names or anything, of what they were going through and they came to you. This was some of the situations, and then how did you navigate that with them for some wins? Because I also think, too, you and I both talked about this, about letting dads know that there are wins, and not everybody is is dying and burning on the ground, that there are there's actually success stories. There's there's actually, you know, you and I, again, like I said before, we had a few of these that we were talking about, just giving dads faith and hope of like, holy smokes, what does this actually look like? They come to you, Jude, and you start to navigate this situation with them. Like, like you'd said, maybe it's maybe you have something with the attorney side or maybe something else. But what comes to mind for you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, having well, talking to thousands of guys over the years and and working with hundreds of them in and going through this process, it's really important to create a vision and and direction, right? There's some basic coaching principles that you and I both both follow. One of those is creating what you creating the vision that you want post-divorce. Now, that doesn't mean that it's necessarily going to happen exactly how you envision it, but while you're in this in this chaos, you need to be creating that that vision. So that's one of the things that in in working with guys, particularly in in one-on-one, that that we start to do. And then from there, you work backward, backwards and in creating the steps that you that you want in doing that. And then in that you're building your skills, you're designing the environment to do it, like all that that stuff that that coaches take you through, whether it's a divorce coach or an exercise coach or or any, they're all going to follow this this basic this be these basic principles and and these steps. And so with guys like I've had I've had guys that have been in very, very high conflict, and and what I'm thinking about was so high conflict, ended up in jail, wasn't seeing his kid uh at all, kid completely taken away, through no fault of his own, false like false allegations, infidelity, like you couldn't imagine. And and some of this stuff like I saw coming, and we were talking about, and there were red flags, and it was literally like watching a train wreck just go through. Well, at this point, they've they've now gone through a divorce and and they've actually reconciled and they're parenting together and they're back together. So I mean, that is like the ultimate awesome success story, like having gone through that and then like figuring out how to reconcile and do that. Absolutely, absolutely unbelievable and and and amazing. So so but it's all it all starts with that that vision and direction, and you and I have talking talked about that. You've got to have that. And and as guys, we innately, we innately have that unless it's been kind of conditioned out of us. Yeah. We and we kind of go, and that's kind of what happened to me. I became very passive, right? Yeah. Kind of the mindset of happy wife, happy life, which is just a horrible, horrible. We're meant to be, we're meant to be leaders. We're meant to have uh purpose, we're meant to have direction, and that can be your family, that can be your job, uh, it can be a combination, it can be something, but we've gotta we've gotta have that in in our lives. It's what women want, it's what women need in uh in a relation, it's what our kiddos need to see from us. Uh and it doesn't mean it has to be in one set traditional way. Like that's the beautiful thing about society now. Things are changing, it's very different, it's very diverse, right? It's not just the the traditional word cleaver, uh how it used to be. It can be it can be very different. And so, but that's but there's still some of these basic things, this these basic mindsets that that we have. And and it's innately with us. A lot of times when we're coaching guys, Anthony, we're just we're just helping them uncover it and and and regain it and and come back to it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Let's talk to the guy that is because I think part of the the genius that you do is like you said before, about navigating the you know, the first person that you hire isn't necessarily, you know, when you're going through divorce, isn't it isn't necessarily your lawyer. And I like to unpack that a little bit, Jude, because I think most of the conversations that we have is that's step one is you know, attorney or whatever feedback you're getting. I know for me that was the only thing that I knew what to do. Walk walk, let's walk some of these folks down the road of when people come to you and that's in that situation. What would that look like for you? What would you be walking them through?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Great question. I don't know if there's any genius in what I do. Well, I've never heard that before.
SPEAKER_00:I thought it was great, man.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you know, yeah, other than just being in the muck and going, there's gotta be a better way, and then starting to try to figure out a better way through helping guys. But I so the the family uh law system, I I liken it. You know how the auto industry has created this mindset around you've got to get your oil changed every three months or 3,000 miles, right? You ask anybody who has a car when you get your three months, 3,000 miles, right? Yeah, so it's the same thing with divorce and attorneys. Attorneys have created the system, they adjudicate the system, right? They're the judges and the magistrates, they're the ones. So they've created this. Well, you've got to have an attorney. That's you got to clock to an attorney. And I'm not, and this isn't to badmouth any attorneys, it's they've created a brilliant system for the for themselves, right? But here's the thing is it's not based on justice, it's based on efficiency. Uh, and so if it's based on efficiency and you're you're you're you're in it thinking that you're gonna get justice, this was a huge thing. I was just like, okay, I'm gonna go through it, I'm gonna be a good boy, I'm gonna do everything right. And I got absolutely hammered. Hammered in in court, absolutely 100% hammered because I had the complete wrong like and what state were you in? Uh in Colorado.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And and and so it's like it's like going to a baseball game and playing football. Like you're playing the wrong game, and then and and then and then you and then you don't have success. But the problem is is you don't go home after this game and and and then just like, oh, that's too bad I lost. Like this has an impact on you going through going for decades, like depending on how old your kids are, it has an impact on you. And so that's why I say going to your going and hiring a divorced attorney first is not the best thing. Now you're gonna you're gonna need a an attorney more more more times than not. You can get through it without it if it's amicable and both people don't have any mental emotion issues or a personality disorder, you can get through it. And and actually, Anthony, like 90 plus percent of divorces are settled outside of court. Sure. So we only hear about and and probably in our world, we are more exposed to the high conflict stuff because that's when you're showing up with you're in critical condition, right? Like more money, more problems. Yeah, you need really, really a lot of help. Yeah, but you don't want to hire an attorney first because the system, like I said, is is not it's set up for uh justice, uh, it's set up for efficiency. And then through that, the attorneys are just they want to get you through the legal system. That's it. That's not how you get through it, not what the result is post-divorce, but just get you through it. And they feel like once you're separated, once it's done, yeah, that's good. But that does not work because then post-divorce, there's all kinds of there's potentially all kinds of problems you need to sort out. You're you're gonna be in relation with this person. That's where it's different with with dads, and why it's so critical for dads, and why I decided to dedicate my life to focusing on just dads. There is a huge, huge impact that is happening by you going through this. And that impact is on your kids, right? And I described it because of my parents and my parents' parents. There's this generational thing that can happen if you don't if you don't pay attention to it. And so and so when I'm working with with dads, I I want them to create a team of people that are gonna help them through this process. Just like when you're on, let's say, a football team, you've got a team of players that have very specific duties on offense. The quarterback's gonna maybe be the mastermind and coordinating everything, a running back's gonna be doing something very specific, a wide receiver, etc. You're gonna have all of those, but you're the coach of your divorce team. Yeah, so you're gonna be the one that is creating the the direction you want to go, right? Based upon working with Anthony or Jude and creating that vision of what you want, determining the how you want to get there, and then calling the place. That doesn't mean that you might not have to adjust things, make uh changes, uh, have a new game plan, etc. But you're gonna do that. You're gonna do that with your divorce attorney who might be the quarterback, really important, which you're gonna have your maybe certified divorce uh financial analyst, your certified divorce uh lender, your certified divorce real estate agent, your therapist or counselor, CPA, like all of these people are gonna play a huge part. And that's what happens. We get a we get an attorney, and they we just and I did this too, right? Yeah, I did this in just trusted my attorney, and I look back and I can I can tell you all the places where my attorney gave me advice that I should have done something different with. And that's what I want guys that and and that's not saying that he wasn't, he was just trying to get through the process as efficient as possible, and but they don't know a ton of stuff, Anthony. Attorneys do not know a ton of stuff about the financials, about the the psychology going through it, dealing with somebody that might have a just a personality, so like they know how to get through the legal process. That's great. You need so much more than that, guys.
SPEAKER_00:You mentioned a whole legal team, and when I hear that, and if I'm listening to this podcast, that sounds really expensive to me. So what I what and I know it's I know what where you're where you're what you do with people, and I would like for you to maybe break that down and so our listeners can hear actually how much it ends up saving them rather than the cost. Like if there's something that comes to mind for you where a guy comes on and you bring in a few different people, and it ends up on the on the front side or on the backside, either way, to be a substantial difference in price. Because I think when when guys hear divorce, they hear cost, price, too much, I'm not that guy, and I and I I know from you know sitting with you, Jude, that you you have a system in place that kind of answers all those questions. So I'm just curious, like w tell us like maybe some wins on there for some guys so they can hear and be like, oh wow, okay, that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So I'll tell you one right now that most a lot of people don't know about. It's called collaborative divorce. And if you have somebody that you can that you can actually talk with, that is amicable, that does want to compromise and and knows that there's gonna have to be compromised through this because it's it's just simple. Your your environment's gonna change, your lifestyle is gonna change, finances are gonna change. That's a simple math problem. One house into two. So that's that's a real easy. If you're with somebody that can look at that and say, okay, yeah, I understand that, then collaborative divorces is something that people don't know about, where you actually go through this process with your individual attorneys and you talk about this, and and you're all working towards the best outcome for each of you individually, because you both need to have a a life that sustains you post divorce, but is also going to be good for you financially, but is also gonna be good for the kids. So you literally sit down and you sit with a coach like like myself and talk about what you want post-divorce. You sit with a financial neutral talking about the finances and how you split stuff up, and then you get all the six, eight, ten, however many people are in a room, and you collaborate on what the div on what the divorce is. And so that's something like I've got a guy in the community right now that that's that's doing that, and and we're talking about that. I've got another client that that's an option that he's thinking about that he wants to to bring to his wife to do that. And that can save that can save you literally hundreds of thousands of dollars. My divorce costs hundreds of thousands of dollars, it was insane. Yours did two. There's guys in the community that have spent millions of dollars. Oh, yeah. Way, way more than that. If you're in some of the some of the coast when some of the big cities and you get into high conflict and you have high income, there's guys that have spent millions and millions of dollars on this. And and you know, it can be it can be easier. Now, again, back to the if you're negotiating with the terrorists, then they don't want to settle, they don't want to collaborate, they don't want to come to compromise, they don't want to do any of this, then guys, you're just gonna have to spend the money on it. And that's where it's really hard sometimes with with with guys because they that that that come in because yeah, it's stupid to spend money on this, this stuff. It shouldn't be that way. But you have to understand, guys, if you're dealing with somebody that has some kind of mental, emotional issue, you're never ever going to be able to convince them or change their mind on what they want. And yeah, we're not going to go into all the psychology around that right now. There is a lot of psychology. There's a playbook that actually happens with these people that that if you are with a coach or somebody that can help you mitigate some of that, it will literally send save you hundreds of thousands of dollars by not getting arrested or not getting a false allegation or something else that's that's going on. So to to to back to your question, to put a dollar amount on it, it can be literally at the low end, I would say it could save you tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah, on the high end, it could be millions, millions plus business owners I've dealt with and yeah, and dealing with in in uncoupling that and properties and and all of that, not to mention the the tax consequences if you don't do it the right way, etc. It could be millions of dollars that that you can save. And and look, man, we're talking about spending thousands of dollars to save tens or millions of dollars, yeah, right in in in your program, in my program. And and and I think we can safely say that that none of us that that are doing this are man, like, hey, and somebody wants to donate a million, somebody wants to spend some millions on on the program and get involved, that's great. But none of us are looking to do this to make millions of dollars, right? We're we're on the social media sharing these insights, not because we like to look at ourselves, because God knows, like you guys are looking at me now. I'm nothing to look at, right? Like, we're doing this to really try to save people guys. Thanks, man. Well, you know, I I tried a little bit. I tried more for your podcast than I did for mine, but we're trying to save, we're trying to save you know lives here, people's lives, men's lives, children's lives. We're trying to make them better. And this is really uh a a labor of love, but it can help it can save you so much.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's good. I I I always say too, with guys that come in, and you know, a lot of times they're always saying, Well, I don't know if I can, you know, pay for the attorney and this and that. And I said, Well, look, your enemy, the lady that you're going up against, she's gonna have all the firepower in the world. And if you don't get this right, the next decade you're gonna pay for it. So I'll grant, I agree with you. Like uh that's why I think a lot of the stuff that you do is super helpful for guys because it helps navigate some of those questions and you know, starts where they're at in their funding and and how to get how to get stuff you know funded right. Were you gonna say something on that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I was just gonna say, let me tell you what happens if you don't do it because my life was was that was a decade of going back and having to stay in in court, yeah, nonstop. It was seven different attorneys, yeah, hundreds of thousands, multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars uh in court. It was it was depositions, it was two like two or three CFI investigations, it was nonstop police officers doing welfare, quote unquote welfare checks uh at my house. It was my ex calling where we're vacationing in the hotels, attempting to get me fired uh from my job, like oh, dude, that's just off the top of my head. If I had some time to write a list, it it's absolutely insane the the stuff. And then like not you're trying, you're just trying to live a life, right? You just want to have you just want to have kids, you want to enjoy your kids, maybe get another romantic relationship that's healthy, uh, enjoy life. Maybe you know, you know, I know you like motorcycles, I like motorcycles, maybe, maybe have a bike, do some like we just want to have a good life, but you're stuck in this nightmare of post-divorce court with somebody that you're parallel parenting with, and your kids might be getting alienated. Like, fortunately for me, that didn't happen, but guys show up all the time. I haven't seen my kids in a year or two years, and what do I do? And how do I get them back, and this and that. Like, we can avoid a lot of that in going through the process in a in a much healthier and and less traumatic way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's good, dude. I wanna I want you to maybe answer this question for the dad who has trouble spending money investing in himself. What would you what would you tell that guy in these scenarios?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know, Anthony. I don't know that there's that that that goes to maybe some roots of your your money mindset, but it you've you've got you've gotta you've gotta spend money in order to do something that you've never d you've never done before. And when man, it's so I I I guess the analogy I'll use sometimes is if you're if you're going to a doctor and let's say you have, God forbid, some very significant uh health issue, yeah, and you're needing a surgery that is literally going to save your life, are you gonna say, well, you know, can you know what's the cost on that? And can I shop that? At least the people that I've ever talked about, I thank God I've never had to deal with that or with my family, but the guys that I've ever talked to and women that I've ever talked, that's never been one of the things that they said I went to California to find the top person to save my life. And they didn't think about they said the cost of it. They figure there's there's no question about that. And so you know, maybe wrapping back to to what you said in the beginning, one of the first things you got to ask ask yourself is like this is gonna have a huge impact on you and your children in the next two decades of your life. Why are you gonna not spend a few thousand dollars on something that can have a huge impact, particularly on your children? I'm gonna say it over and over again, because when we're doing the work with you, that is is going to reflect directly on your relationship with your kids, how you get through this, and what your life is post-divorce with your kids. And that is going to determine the relationships that your children have when they're healthy and functioning adults. Hopefully, healthy and functioning adults. If you don't, and you don't spend the thousands of dollars and you muddle through this, and like a lot of this stuff I muddle through, and I say to my daughters now, look, girls, like I didn't, I this was the life I never, I never designed, I never had, I never thought this was gonna be. I've made lots of mistakes, but I will be here for you through the rest of your life, through your adult relationships to help you through it because I know that it's gonna have an impact. Guys, this is gonna have an impact on them in their adult life. It can be, it can be a positive, and trust me, it can be a positive. I've got stories about my daughters that I can say, wow. Wow. I would have never designed the lesson that they learned because of my divorce or how I showed up, et cetera. But they've learned a lesson that is gonna be so good for them post uh in their adult life that is that is amazing because of this process.
SPEAKER_00:Good dude. Yeah, I I love just hearing that. I I think more and more dads forget about and most have never invested in themselves except for in college and and now they're at this place. So I want to give you a couple questions here.
SPEAKER_01:Let's talk about that for a quick second, right? Sure. Because this is hard, especially if guys probably that are listening or and and maybe you find this that are involved your community, my community, have never heard that message of value that that they bring in and why it's so important for them to invest in themselves. And this was this was me too, right? Like I was gonna be super dad, I was gonna be sacrificing all this stuff, and and and maybe even more so, maybe some of the Christian men in the audience that are that are listening to that are self-sacrificial, which is a good thing. But but you have to invest in yourself to be able to do the rest of that, to be able to show up and and to have the skills to be able to be there for your children, to learn to communicate with your children, to to to mitigate uh conflict, which is always gonna happen in our lives. Like we're never gonna not have conflicts in our life. Like that is part of showing up in a, you know, we share the same faith. Showing up in a Christian way in a Christ-like manner is you are actually gonna have probably more conflict. And so avoiding that is not gonna help. So you need to learn, you need to invest in yourself to learn the skills to be able to deal with this. This is just one conflict, it might be a big one, and it is a big one, but there's gonna be many, many more. So invest in yourself. And by investing in yourself, it has a cascading effect on everybody else in your life, and again, particularly your children. Like we're focused on the children, but it's gonna have a it's gonna have an impact everywhere else that you show up if you invest and you grow and you learn and level up, like I said before.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I agree, man. I think it's doing hard things, and those are hard things to hear. I got a couple a couple questions, and we'll start to land this plane and get these guys going. One thing I just want to note that a lot of guys that listen to this, they want to do something, they want to help. And I always say this like, guys, the easiest thing you can do for not only my podcast or even Jude's podcast, The Divorced Advocate, is to go on there, subscribe, leave a review, because it makes the algorithm go crazy like your ex. And it's literally sends the podcast to divorce dads, and it's that simple. Just subscribe, just leave a review, be like, yo, that was helpful, this was good, this was that, whatever it might be, just something simple, and it rockets this stuff out on mine and on Jude's as well. So I just want to say that and let me land this thing with a couple questions because I think there's some dads that would that would then look at this and be like, all right, like the question would be this Jude, you've seen hundreds of guys go through this. And I I would I would pose it like this what separates the dads who rebuild faster than the ones who stay bitter after a decade or so or even less? What's the difference?
SPEAKER_01:Asking for help. Asking for help, asking for help, yeah, which is just not a message, man. If I could just, yeah, if there's one thing I want guys to take away from today, ask for help. It's not a message that I grew up with. It's not a message we get from from in in manhood a lot, etc. But asking for help is a sign of strength. It is not a sign of weakness. Get the help. It'll be, man, it's the it's the it's the fastest thing to leveling up your game. And so just so guys know, I have a I have a coach too. Like, so I have a I have a coach too. I I pray I practice what I preach. I've gotten to uh to a point with our with our community where I it was like, man, what you said earlier, like we've got to get this message out. And I feel like I'm doing a disservice, right? So that service link through me, I'm like, I'm I am doing a disservice to all the dads out there that are not getting my message. I need to figure out how to take this community to the next level. So I was like, I gotta go invest, I gotta go find somebody that can help me do that. I'm gonna I invest in a business coach. And I work with a business coach that's helping me to do this so that we can get this out. So same thing, going and asking for help. Like a lot of stuff I did for myself, and I've done stuff to some to some extent, but I know I need help to get to that next level. Ask for help. Don't be afraid.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's great, Jude, because I think what you and I have both seen, and I know for myself and in the different stratospheres of guys, especially as you get into you know seven, eight, nine figures, what I've learned with those guys is that they will trade money for time and they will they will spend whatever they need to spend to learn and cut the time on what they need to learn to be able to have that growth because they know that they don't get more time. And so if they can trade the money for time, and you can do it faster, you can get there quicker, your mind can get renovated, your stuff with your dads and your kids and your cash flow and all those things. If you can do that faster, why wouldn't you? Right. And so that's the that's the friction that that a lot of dads have is being able to see through that and saying, wow, that's actually what the successful people do, all the people that we follow, we read about, that's how they cut the time.
SPEAKER_01:And so in saying that every dad listening, you're you're you are creating, you can do you can make more money. Yeah, I guarantee you, you can make you're designed to make money. So if it's a financial thing, you can make more money. You know, you and I talked about our podcast. Like, and and and I want you to know wherever you're at, like we both talked about like getting to a low point and drive. Like I drove, like I had to be like driving rideshare to just make ends meet at at one point during this. You can always make money, no matter where you're at. So if that's you right now and you just feel like I'm at the bottom, you can and you will, going back to your you are strong enough, you can and you will be able to make more money. So just this trust in that abundance mindset that you are designed to, you can and you will.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know, Jude, when you s when you just said that, it reminds me there's a guy that I'm a current client. We've been talking about the people he hangs out with. And he asked me a few questions about it. And the the it was basically about, you know, do I hang out with these types of people that are kind of average, middle of the road? You know, do I stay away? Like, what do I do with people? And and the picture that I got when he was asking me that that story was a picture, there's obviously the easy one is, you know, a bad apple spoils the rest of the apples, right? The other side of the coin is when you begin to take championship players and you put them on the same team. Championship players don't want to play with average players. If you've read good to great and those types of things and those philosophies, and if you followed Apple and Steve Jobs, you'll know that A players do not want to play with B players. And so when you're looking for who do you hang out with, you know, find the like it, for example, your your community. Find the community that those guys are in that have an abundance and overflow mindset, and that will become your standard operating procedure. Do you have any any thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, absolutely. There's the the the cliche of you're the you're the sum of the five people that you hang out with, right? So, and then also there people say, well, if you hang out with four people who are alcoholics, you're gonna become the fifth people that the for the fifth person that's a that's an alcohol, uh an alcoholic. There, there's something to be said about the environment. And and this is not to say like you gotta go change your whole friends and like go away from everybody. Just if you start to do the work and and and you continue and you start to level up, those people are gonna come into your world, right? Like, like God's gonna create this, this, the people and the opportunities. Uh, you just need to be aware. And then the the the people that aren't comfortable with it anymore are gonna fall away. And it's and and you know, so that it doesn't become this whole big tough conversations or or anything. You're just leveling your life up. You're on a path that is different, and you're gonna follow that path. You're gonna meet other people that are on that path, and it's gonna go to some amazing places, places that you like you might intend, but other places, like other like diversions off of that path that you're gonna go, oh my god, I never ever could have imagined my life going in this direction, and it is so freaking amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Love it. Jude, let's throw, I'm gonna put you on the spot here a little bit, but it's the end of the year, and I like to leave guys with either one or two things. I like to leave them with a challenge, or I like to leave them with a couple questions that force them to take what we've heard and do a little bit of homework on themselves. So I'll leave it up to you. Like, do you feel like there's like sometimes a it's a 24-hour challenge or a 72-hour challenge or a week challenge or a five challenge? If there's if there's something come to mind for you, a challenge or a couple questions you could leave these guys with today, what would what would you like that to be?
SPEAKER_01:So when coaching guys, we really try to start maybe with something that is one small movement in a direction down that road that I was talking about, right? Yeah. So my challenge would be love, you got a challenge. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah. Do one thing today or tomorrow, yeah, that will move you towards towards that direction. Okay. Right. So i if it's I want to be more healthy, then It it could be as simple as going for a walk. Go for a walk for 15 minutes. Or or or maybe even chunk it down less. If you know that you need to create the time to go for a walk and that's gonna have to be in the morning, just get up 15 minutes earlier tomorrow. And then start doing that for 21 days so that you can get up that 15 minutes earlier for 21 days, and then after the 21 days, then go out for the walk. Or maybe it's not you're gonna get out of bed, then start getting out of bed for 21 days, you know, at that at that time instead of just waking up. Like do one thing that is going to help you. Now, if you can jump right to the walk, go right to the walk. Get up every day for 21 days. Like they say, 21 days, it you know, it creates like more of a mindset and more of a habit mindset around it. After 60 days, it becomes a lifestyle change. So you'd be really surprised, guys, how quickly you can rewire your your uh your brain to want to do this and create a lifestyle that happens like this. So it'll start like that, and you'll just keep adding things on and adding things on. And you know that's a whole philosophy. You change the the trajectory of a plane by just one degree over a period of distance or time, it's gonna be a huge, huge change, of course. So just start with one thing this this holiday season, whatever it might be. Maybe it's you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna just stop one night of drinking. Okay, maybe you're stuck in an addiction, but you're gonna stop and you're gonna you're gonna reduce it by one drink or one day or something. Just do one thing that gets you on that road towards that that different life.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you, Jude. I was gonna throw something else, but I just feel like that was such a good closing thought for guys to hear and to resonate with and to do something. Again, the divorced advocate, all the stuff is in there. You guys need to go to it. I'll I'll throw it to you, Jude. What's the best way for the community to find where you're at and what's going on?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, we have everything housed at the divorcedadvocate.com. You can check out everything that we've got from the the podcast. We've got 280-some podcast episodes, so you can you can plow through all of those, and we've got experts like you that come on and and all kinds of other guys that provide support. We've got a blog, we've got a membership site that gives you some additional resources. We've got an app there as well with 50 plus uh self-help courses, and then we've got individual coaching. Right now, Anthony, between now and the end of the year, we started a Black Friday till the end of the year, we're doing 25% off of individual coaching. So that thousands even gets reduced even less. Which like like my business coach is like, Are you sure? And I'm like, Yeah, man, like like I gotta do this. Like, this is this is the time between now and the end of the year where think people are planning and thinking about stuff. This is the time I need to give guys an opportunity to get involved. So check it out at thedivorced advocate.com. And I want to reiterate what you said, which is just leave if you found some value today and what we shared, just leave a comment. Like it costs you no money and give it a star rating. And we need to get this message out to so many more dads. And and that's all you got to do. It won't cost you any money, it's gonna cost you literally 30 seconds. You you have no idea the benefit that it that it gives Anthony or I. And thanks for having me on, man, and bless you for the work that you do. I'm so glad we we connected. And man, let's just let's just keep this going and keep helping people.
SPEAKER_00:Well, dude, thanks, Jude, for being here, divorced dad, you know, the rebuild, and and this is what we do each and every week. So, those of you listening, thank you for listening. If you can drop a comment and a sub, that's awesome. Uh, if you get to the the divorced advocate, do something, take action on everything that Jude's got going on. And I pray for you guys. I love you guys, and I can't wait to see you guys in the next one. God bless you.
