312 - Why Judges Hate 50/50 And Dads Pay

Family court is drifting into a dangerous contradiction: more states are proving that default 50/50 shared parenting lowers conflict and supports kids, while new “coercive control” standards expand domestic violence claims into subjective territory that can sideline a parent fast. On our sixth anniversary panel, we sit down with family court reform advocate Robert Garza and Divorce Dads of America founder Anthony Thompson to name what’s happening, why it’s happening, and what dads can do next.

Robert shares what he learned after surviving 43 false allegations, 16 years of litigation, and over $700,000 in legal fees, then turning that pain into practical one-page bills. We dig into why courts and bar associations push back on equal parenting time, how “standard possession” became the default ceiling, and why procedures and proof standards often matter more than the truth when parents are forced to go pro se. We also talk through concrete fixes like returning parenting time when allegations are unsubstantiated, enforcing consequences for repeated violations, and raising the standard of evidence when parental rights are at stake.

Anthony brings the on-the-ground reality: dads in the blender, burning cash, losing focus, and struggling to stay present. We unpack extreme ownership, specificity, community support, and the role forgiveness can play in protecting your mental health while the legal system moves at its own pace.

Being unprepared is how great fathers become weekend visitors. Most ground is lost quietly through "drift" and decisions made under pressure. Stop the drift today at TheDivorcedDadvocate.com.

Access your tactical tools:

• Risk Assessment: Identify your "quiet loss" exposure in 10 minutes.
• Protection Session: Book a private triage to ensure mistakes don’t become permanent.

Your kids are counting on you.

Transcript

Sixth Anniversary And The Stakes

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hello and welcome to this week's show and our briefing. Thank you so much for being here this week. And I'm incredibly excited because this is a milestone episode. As you know, if you've been listening to more than one episode or for more than one year, we are celebrating our sixth anniversary here. So this is our 312th episode. It has absolutely absolutely been an amazing, uh, uh, amazing journey here. And what I wanted to talk about with my guests today, and and as you know, we uh have a panel discussion on our anniversary podcast every year, and I bring in some of the most popular uh guests that we've uh we've had, and two of the most popular guests that we've had this year are are joining me today. And uh, but before I introduce them, I want to just lay the kind of lay the groundwork for our conversation today, because over the six years that that we've been doing this, I'm starting to see now a crossroads, maybe uh if you will, in family court and and and the challenges that we're experienced there. And on the one hand, it is there's some progress that we're seeing and that is being made in many states across the the country and and really actually uh across the world. There's some stuff happening in England as well. But and and that is to the to the default position of 50-50 uh parenting time. Many states have adopted that now, and one of our guests is intimately involved in that. But what we're also seeing is kind of uh not only a pushback on that, but really a loosening of what I feel is the already uh loose way and subjective way in which the courts, the family courts, show up, and and that's with these uh coercive control laws, which actually expand the definition of domestic violence. And so that's uh I wanted to talk around that, and then we're gonna talk a little bit more with our guests about what they're seeing out there because they are on the forefront of everything. They are in these battles, they are talking to dads every single day and doing an incredible amount of work. My my my first guest is Robert Garza. You've heard him before, and he is a family court reform advocate, survivor of 43 false allegations, 16 years of uh litigation, $700,000 plus dollars of attorney's fees. But he's taking all that, and he's the legislative architect behind bills that are restoring custody time to alienated parents and other bills as well. Robert, welcome. My other guest is Anthony Thompson, he's the founder of uh Divorce Dads of America and host of the Rebuild, and he is a champion of extreme ownership and present fatherhood, and he's working with tons of dads during and post-divorce to to just help them through this process. And fellas, thanks so much for for agreeing to come back on and and and at least celebrate with us. And I want to do so, I do want to celebrate the the dads that are out there and the and the work that's been done and the work that you two are both doing. But I also want us to to to seriously talk about what's happening out there because I really think that that we're at at a at a crossroads. And and so, Robert, let's let's start with you. And if you can just just share your background a little bit about your experience and then what you're doing now, and then we'll jump into some questions after uh Anthony gets introduced, also.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

Yeah, thanks for having me. Like you said before, I went through 16 years of family court. I'm actually still in family court, which is crazy. I'm pro se. I have joint custody of my kids. They were never able to take them from me. So, you know, spent $700,000 just being a fit parent. It shouldn't happen in any state or any country. And so when I got out, I had to learn civil law, criminal law, constitutional law. And a lot of these lawyers, they practice law on your case. You live the consequences of those actions. And so what better person to do it except, you know, when you learn these things yourself to do it yourself. And so I'm pro se and so

Meet The Reform Advocate And Coach

SPEAKER_02 4:20

I ended up learning a lot of these tricks that opposing counsel plays or even the system allows. And in doing that, I came up with about 12 bills that I've written and amended for all 50 states and and several countries already.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Yeah, that's that's phenomenal. And and we're gonna talk about some of those successes here in a second. Anthony, give give the dads listening a little bit, a little bit of background about yourself. Sure, man.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Dad's out there, shoot. I was just a a dad like you, a husband that was doing his best, and got divorced. My my ex made some decisions that didn't want to be together, and I had to go through some of those hoops and jumps that every dad has to go through with loneliness, despair, not seeing their kids, cash flow problems. And, you know, I worked in really high-level organizations throughout the world, Christian Ones and Fortune 100s, and been on the you know, red carpets of Hollywood. So I've seen a fair bit of life in that in those different worlds and scopes. And as I went through it, I look for a dude that I could trust that I could sit, you know, at the on the couch with and not just talk about pain, but do something with the pain. And I think I love what Robert's doing. The picture that I have really is like Robert's this, you know, eyes in the sky dropping, you know, preparing and dropping monster bombs, you know, to help dads. And I feel like while that happens and while that gets worked out, and while the courts and the bills all happen, dads are sitting there trying to figure out how to keep their minds straight, not blow their brains out and love their kids. And so that's what we do and put put money in their pockets so that they can withstand the storm, you know, and not just feel obliterated in the in the middle. And that's so that's where I was at. And that's what we do with dads, you know, every single day and every single week.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah, that's phenomenal. And and I I like that that you pointed that out, Anthony. It's kind of my mindset around why I invited the the two of you on as well, because we kind of have kind of we kind of run the gamut here. I work uh a lot with high conflict, mostly high conflict guys that are dealing with parental alienation, silver bullets, stuff like that. I know that uh you work with some guys that are doing that, but also a lot with guys that are post-divorce, really working with their lives and getting lives back on track, because whether you like it or not, your life's gonna change, right? Through divorce. Some of you and and and you just gotta accept that. And then Robert is really doing uh just uh heavy lifting on the backside to get some of these loopholes and and and and massive inconsistencies in the courts fixed, which is a long-term goal. And and one of the things we talk about in our community all the time is you know, putting that ladder back down for the next guy. And we're blessed to have a lot of guys that show up on our group calls and that are doing work. There's guys that are involved with Roberts organization, really trying to get the things changed in their in their particular jurisdictions and their states too. And and so I like the dichotomy that we have here. And so, so Robert, let's let's start with with you. And you've drafted and pushed legislation in multiple states. Kentucky set a historic precedent originally by making 50-50 sharing shared parenting the default starting point. And since then, divorces have plummeted 25%. Now, detractors claim that this forces people to stay in bad marriages, but advocates say it forces cooperation. From a legislative standpoint, why is a why is a default 50-50 presumption the ultimate stabilizer for a family? And why? So that's part one, why is it the ultimate stabilizer? And then part two is why is

The Case For Default 50 50

SPEAKER_01 8:10

the legal system so terrified of it if we're seeing success with it?

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah. So Kentucky did a great job with theirs. And I think a lot of misconception is is that and and this is the whole reason for the misconception, is because they don't want it. It doesn't, you know, this conflict allows states to make a lot of money, lawyers, judges, the whole system. They don't want it to go away. So it's not even a misconception, it's actually just wrong. And they're they're putting this narrative out there that 50-50 automatically gives you 50-50. It actually doesn't. The standard right now, and I I said this before, the standard possession that was just here, the legislature is a line that they drew a long time ago in the sand that said, okay, judges, you have all this discretion, do not go below this. That's what standard possession was. They said, do not go below this. It was never meant to be a starting point, it was never meant to be a ceiling. It was a line, do not go below this. And so over time, the judges started making that the ceiling, making that the starting point where it made you adversaries and fighting. And they they saw it generated a lot of money. And so now with my bills, I have a bill for all 50 states, it's a one-pager. Literally, what it does is, and any 50 50 shared parenting bill, is that it puts, it tells the judges, here's the new guideline, start at equality, and then go down from there. It doesn't mean that you automatically get it, it just tells the judges where to start at. It's not automatic, it doesn't take away any discretion, it's a new starting point. And that's the whole reason for the misconception of this.

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Got you. So so let me just clarify for the dads listening, the standard possession is uh has become like week like every other weekend, right? And and that's way below what is necessary for a father to be an active present parent that has some parental authority that has a positive impact. I think that ends up being somewhere like 20 or 25 percent of the time spent with with a child. And 30, I think they find 35 somewhere around there, 30, 35 percent is really what they find is what is necessary to be an active present father in your child's life. And so what you're describing is that all a majority of legislators said you cannot go below unless there's some real specific reason, right? This is still all very subjective, but you cannot go below that that standard. And what that be then got you know twisted into is that is the standard. And now we're just simply you and and and the other dads that are involved, and and there's women too, like are are just working to get that to start from the default 50-50. Am I am I am I interpreting that correctly?

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yeah, so we've all seen what's happened in the last 30, 40 years. The court system has been sentencing our children to being at risk by sentencing them and starting at that bottom of the barrel standard. And so it puts our children at risk for alcoholism, teen pregnancy, high school dropout, incarceration. Yep. When custody falls below, like you said, 29% to one parent, uh, well, I'm sorry, 40%, so 10% difference to either parent, that's where the statistics start putting our children to being at risk. Standard possession is about 29%, even expanded standard is 39%. So both of those standards, or even starting at those, put our children to being at risk. The only thing that fixes this is starting at equality and going down from there.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Yeah. And Anthony, so what in in the dads that you're working with, because you're you're working with them post-divorce, what are you what are you seeing as as the outcomes that that they're experiencing in the court system in regard to in regard to this 50-50? Are you seeing that there is it is working from this from this this lower standard, or are you seeing that it's starting to move more towards 50-50?

SPEAKER_03 12:26

Look, I think what we what I experience the most is the most emotional dads are the ones that are having the most difficult time in the courts, the ones that have less emotional ties to it, they're a little bit more grounded, they have a different perspective on how it works. They, even if their exes, you know, whatever word you want to use, crazy, narcissistic, whatever, they understand that look, this is a process and they're gonna get through it. But I think overall, they're very frustrated. They're, you know, you guys know they're they're angry, they're pissed off. And unfortunately, though, the other side of that is they're using so much energy of their life trying to fight something and losing the future and losing the present moment with their kids and losing cash flow in their business and losing focus in their life that they become, you know, what I call this word of a just being in a blender. They're just they're fighting all the time, their cortisol is going through the roof, they're pissed off, and they're angry. And so, yeah, there's a lot of dads that come in there that are in that space and place. And this is about, you know, for me, it's like, hey, look, there's things that you can change. You might get a win, you might not get a win. Like, thank God Robert's out there dropping bombs on like Hiroshima over there because you know, these dads still are, you know, staring at a gun at the table or blowing in it with all kinds of substances and abuse for themselves and and stringing it out. So that's just like the feelers that I get is then I say, look, I can't change what's happening in the courts, can't change your ex, can't change those things. All we can focus on the things that we can do to get you in a state and a place that's going to be able to good be good for your home and for your children and for the future things that you want to build in your life.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah. So so you're not necessarily seeing that there's that there's one that that there is a a movement more towards that that 50-50, or or that's that there's you know, just been still a continued push. Because so I live in Colorado. We have unfortunately just passed a House Bill 261309. It's called Abuse in Cases of Separation Act. It's going to take effect in in August. The law expands domestic violence to include subjective terms like coercive control, economic abuse, and and they have to look at these things now before the court can even look at the best interest of the child standard, creating an immediate presumption against custody. And so now we have a court system that is number one, overwhelmed. They're not structured, they're not designed to be able to look at nuance in any any capacity, like any capacity, really. Uh, most of the time that they're they're looking to third parties to to to help to help mitigate that, take cover under it, whatever you want to call it, but they don't have the ability to really look into that. And then you get a dad like you described, Anthony, that's going through the blender like that. How it how how do you keep your you know, how do you keep control of your emotions? How do you, when the when it's stacked against you, and now you've got another bill, and we're looking at other, I mean, this is happening across the across the country, more of these these bills that are expanding the ability for the courts to then have an even greater impact on your ability to just simply have parenting time.

Coercive Control And Expanding Allegations

SPEAKER_03 16:06

Do you want me to answer that?

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah, yeah. Like, how do you keep a guy because yeah, here's what I experience when guys show up. It's like uh like what I like, I'm in a this is the battle for my life and and my kids because like like Robert, 43 allegations, 43 false allegations, all of them completely dispelled. And and and Robert's is uh is a is an extreme case, right? But I like we talk to guys every single day that are having these silver bullets shot at them, and now that you know they're making it even harder. Like, how do you keep your you know, how do you keep your emotions around that? Like you said, lots of good, there's lots of guys that don't make it through this process. Like there's guys that have been in the community that are not here anymore.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Yeah, they yeah, they don't make it. I I think I just asked a real simple question. Hey, are you getting the results you want or do you want help? And who you hang around is who you become, and what you think about is is what you become. Your thoughts are the ancestors of your feelings. So when you start to get out of your fantasy football league of dads that just moan and complain and and everything sucks, well, keep doing that, brother, if it's working. I'll I'll never tell a dad to change if that's what they want to do. But if you want to come on the overside to the other side to get with a band of brothers that are walking together, doing it together, and they're not perfect, they have tough days. But I tell you what, they have something that they're going for and they have a becoming of the man they're gonna become, of what it looks like, what it talks like, what it feels like, and who he is, then come on over. And as they do, they realize that a lot of the stuff that they're doing is, you know, is toxic. A lot of things that the behaviors that they're doing are wrong. They don't have anybody in their life that's shooting them straight and calling out their blind spots. All they're doing is pointing fingers at everybody else. And once you start pointing fingers at yourself, what you can do, life starts to change.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

Okay, so so essentially you're saying take control of what you can take control of and you know, do the the best you can with that with that situation. Surround yourself with other guys too that are gonna help you with that. Is that yeah, they're gonna carry it.

SPEAKER_03 18:06

Yeah, there's there's most most of the days, man, you're you need to get carried. And doing it by yourself is is gonna be the hardest and the slowest way to do it. You know, I I had a mentor one time that said, hey, use all the brains you got and all the brains you can borrow. And that that applies to every every sphere of life, physically, mentally, spiritually, relationally. And so when guys start to realize that the DIY with the podcast and YouTube videos isn't working, and they need to they need to do something for themselves that's different, then they start to get some change in their life. And they start to see things differently as well. They start to view these text messages and and courts think that it becomes a different pair of glasses that they're wearing. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

So, Robert, how can we bridge the gap between these laws that are promoting equal access and the laws that are making it easier to sideline fathers based upon these unproven subjective definitions of behavior?

SPEAKER_02 19:01

So we have a Zoom meeting every Monday and Wednesday, and that's where we're teaching advocates, and everything's for free. All legislation, all the bills I write will come to your capital, do whatever. It is all for free. It's your human rights. I feel that it's your human rights to be able to do this. And nobody taught me it. I had to learn it by trial and error. And so that's where I think all of these groups are getting this stuff. They're teaching other people how to get you know, these domestic violence groups, and they're going overboard with it. It's like everything else. It's like this pendulum that goes right and left, and and you go overboard with things, and then people ignore it. And that's what's probably gonna happen with if you keep saying what all this domestic violence is, everything is, raising your voices, not you know, not answering them on time or sending them one text is is gonna be overboard. And so people are gonna get tired of it and they're gonna ignore these laws. But if you come in here and I teach you about these laws, you learn how to pass good legislation, but you also learn how to stop bad legislation. So while you're at the Capitals, if you know how to pass good legislation and read into the bills and you can see the legal loopholes, whether they put, you know, preponderance of evidence versus clear and convincing. If you don't know what the difference of those two things are, it's very dangerous to put one and not the other, and so, or one over the other. And so I'll teach you all that stuff for free. But we're empowering people, and it's very healing also being at a position that the court puts you in and they take your kids and you don't know what's going to happen to be able to understand why it happened in the law and what you can do to stop them from doing it to other parents. And so literally in six months, I passed time taking time back in Texas, and it protected 30 million Texans in six months. I couldn't even get anywhere in my own case in six months.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Yeah. That it that's uh, you know, you you you mentioned the the the losing your kids and those these ex parte the emotions are absolutely brutal. When you lose your kids for three or four weeks, then and you have no ability to do anything other than sit and wait. And that's that's that's where somebody like Anthony and your group and having people surrounding you and and and lifting you up, borrowing their brains, right? I think is a was a good one, Anthony, borrowing Robert's brain, you know, borrowing the brains of other guys that are involved in Robert's organization, because a ton of us that are that are involved in doing this work have experienced that. And if you haven't experienced that, it's just it's an awful thing. And then you're always you always think, okay, most of us, like most of the guys that come to the community, always think that that justice is going to be prevail and there's going to be, you know, some sort of uh restitution. for for what's happened. And it just absolutely does not work. I remember after the fact, after not seeing my daughters for four weeks, the the hearing was over. That was it. I didn't get any time back. I didn't get the five grand it it took me to refute the the the the the the idea that I was guilty until proven innocent and then you're just stuck standing there holding you know like completely gutted is really the the the way that I can the the the way that I can dis describe it. But you know I I Robert I wanted to we've got one of the guys in our community and I wanted to just lay out kind of the the the statistics around how what you're working against and and what the mindset that we're working against here and I think this is also important Anthony for for the guys listening to that that want to just have a good mindset. Like because I know the so many guys come in they're good dads right and that's my whole thing is you know being unprepared is how great dads become weekend visitors, right? Because we don't know this this information. But for for instance in in California the we've got uh a guy in our community that's working with your your organization he's he's reported back to us there are over a hundred domestic violence organizations in California alone. So think about that and they are the majority if not every single one of them is a domestic violence organization that supports women. These aren't domestic it's not 50-50 it's not domestic uh violence organizations that are helping men half the time and women half these are by and large all structured to support women in domestic violence except for the fact that we find and these are government's these are these are government statistical numbers is that women abuse their children 51% of the time and men you know when they find if there's a report of use it's 51% to 49%. So they're the ones that are abusing their children more than men. So there's this giant giant disconnect between domestic violence and violence to the kids and actually how it happens. And so I feel it's really incredibly important for the dads listening I've done some podcasts on this and and and and talked about it about these statistics so dads understand the the lay of the land because it's great Anthony to be like hey you know you've got to take accountability for this but you can take massive accountability for this and you can get absolutely gutted and that's why we see guys you know the the suicide rate for for divorce and or divorcing dads is astronomically higher than even

Staying Sane While Courts Drag On

SPEAKER_01 24:50

men in in in general so it's really really you know sad. Robert I want to ask you why or or actually both of you either one of you why do you so with all of that said and with all of those statistics and we know these statistics is government statistics we know the number of organizations out there we see what's what what's happening with this coercive control now loosening more of the domestic violence it's real easy to connect the dots here. Why is the therapeutic and legal community so hesitant to penalize mothers who are caught fabricating allegations of abuse so that's what my bills target is that they stop the bad behavior before it starts.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

So time taken time back whenever there's no finding of abuse or neglect after protective order restraining order when you return the child you shall return the time it stops false allegations but it won't stop a real allegation. The three strikes literally when somebody has a court order and somebody doesn't give the kids it gives a $500 fine the first second time third time it becomes a felony what it is in most states already. But this is the problem that we're seeing is that perjury is a felony in every state but they're not prosecuted for it. They're allowing these games and if they're allowing these games I'm like okay I have another bill for that. It heightens that standard from preponderance of evidence to clear and convincing at that point the judge cannot take something is it more true or less true now they have to say show me the proof that is the legal standard in criminal law but it's not in family law. And so we need to heighten that standard and you can't even reprimand an attorney on a grievance against them. The state bar won't even look at it if it's preponderance of evidence. It has to be clear and convincing to even reprimand an attorney why are you taking our parental rights on preponderance when you won't even reprimand an attorney with the same so this is the types of problems that we're seeing. But the good part is is that now we can articulate that I'm reteaching people that and now all of these I've traveled all over the world it's the same problem same solution for everyone the problem is is that it's that narrative that you have to beat with these hundreds of groups that are talking to these legislators and they're just parroting what they say. But once they hear the solution it's like okay you know what 5050 here's the thing with 5050 it doesn't it's not an automatic thing. It it's just a standard of where to start. Now we both agree that if you have domestic violence substantiated in your case we both agree that you don't deserve 50-50 now what's your argument they don't have one and it's those little things that take their argument away that they're like well and they can't say that we believe in it or that we promote it because it's actually in my one page bill that if you have substantiated abuse you don't get 50-50. The judge has to go down from there. So there is no argument.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

We've basically taken it away yeah so so you're so what you're doing takes away the loop the loopholes right the disinformation and the disinformation and but but the therapeutic and the legal community is still against this so when I you know in here in Colorado the the Bar Association came out against this and and so you know my my question is why are they against all of this? And I guess your answer to me is that it it doesn't benefit them. It's going to reduce billable hours it's going to reduce it's it's probably going to reduce funding to all these NGOs that are that are supporting all this stuff. So it's basically preservation of the system if I'm if I'm hearing you correctly is why there the the therapeutic and the legal system is against it because if you look at it simply from what you're describing from a systematic place and look this isn't even this isn't even a men women thing right this is like this gets used from you know on on the other side uh as well now we know that statistically it's weaponized more from one one direction to to the other direction but it just makes perfect sense. So it's if I'm understanding it's self-preservation is what is the reason why they want to to keep this because a lot this system is going to completely completely change.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Correct and I was there in Colorado we had what I had a bill there called the Peace Act which was 50-50. Right and we had a hundred people show up for it to testify against it. The domestic violence people showed up against it after hearing a lot of their testimony I actually figured out what the problem was in family court and it's not a custody issue it's a procedural issue. And each one of these people got up there and said that the judge never allowed their evidence to be in the Bar Association for Colorado got up and testified that 75% of your people that file are 75% of them are pro se if you don't understand how to get evidence in that's a procedural failure or an educational failure has nothing to do with a custody issue. So whenever these people would try to get their their evidence in opposing counsel will object to it and then they didn't know how to overcome that burden of well judge it's you know this is how, you know, to set a predicate or how to get the evidence in they blame it on 50-50 and the judges being biased when it was their own education that couldn't couldn't get that in. So if we lessen that procedural or learn how to fix that procedural thing and I even ask the domestic violence people I'm like hey come talk to me I think I solved this issue for you and if they solve that procedural failure then their evidence will come in. But if they don't it's going to keep happening what's happening now they're arguing against something that none of them have ever had which was 50-50 how can you argue against something that you've never had or experienced so you don't know if it works but I know what failed you and they wouldn't even listen to it.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly and what they did then is in instead of going towards something that makes more rational that closes loopholes that allows you to get more educated they just added more subjectivity to it so that you could bring more evidence to to a court that is already overwhelmed that doesn't look at the details and and has a complete bias in this so there's also some more statistics around this Illinois did a did a study of their their court systems and the attorneys themselves a third of them felt that judges were were were biased in in their in their decision making they they then surveyed uh each of the judges four percent of the judges thought that there was that they had any kind of bias in this so there's even a huge disconnect in the judges to like within the community and with the system so what I see and what I hear what of of what's being described is just just throwing stuff at the wall to see what the what feels good that what can happen in in what gets and and who gets impacted negatively are kids because is is that is that is that is that a fair assessment yeah they want you to keep making this a mother father issue.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

It is not this is a human rights issue and it's a system issue versus the humanity issue. And so as long as they keep as long as people keep throwing each other under the bus you'll never understand that it's the system that needs to change. It's not mothers against fathers.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

This is us against the system yeah yeah so this this takes me to what do we do going forward now and in where we're at so the the the premise of this podcast is this the the state of divorce for for for dads right now and and and Anthony you you talk about radical accountability all all of the time when a dad is hit with the reality of this legal this biased legal system and when when when you were on the podcast we talked about how you go into stress mode right and then your your brain automatically gets to you know a 40% reduction of of cognitive ability right and you're you're angry you're broke you're grieving

How One Page Bills Become Law

SPEAKER_01 33:40

like how you know how does how do you take extreme ownership rebuild your identity in the system while you're actively fighting a battle it's almost like the this the the the the image that comes to my mind is almost like you're you're fighting a battle like you're a soldier with a sword and warrior in one hand and in the other hand you're like trying to heal yourself and like patch yourself up while you're fighting a battle. How does you know how do you coach a dad through something like that?

SPEAKER_03 34:10

Yeah well yeah I mean there's like there's a dad now he's he hasn't he hasn't seen his kids in nine months and a lot of the stuff Robert's talking about it's you know it it it's there's a hundred of dads like that. So that's a very common thing. They come in they're they want to fight and get their kids back and then at the same time they're you know going home and and using drugs or you know drinking too much or not not not hanging around with the right people or feeling sorry for their life. And so you know while they while they're using all of this energy at one end trying to fight then they come back home and then they're not present with their kids they blow up at their kids they're short tempered with them. And so there first has to be just an understanding of what what their schedule their time and their energy has to look like because those things are finite. You don't get more of them. So you got to be able to you know first we kind of walk down about really simple things about you know what do they need to be thinking about what do they actually want for their life because this this the court stuff can that can just sync them every day. Like it's it's ongoing a text you know be a trigger there there's all those sorts of things and so you know it starts at a very simple baseline of getting them you know to a place of all right well let's look at where we're gonna go next because you know what you focus on grows. You know we start with a fast the fast system and that's the first one is focus and and faith. And those two things are going to be the things that they need to be really accountable to and understand what they look like to be able to be accountable for the stuff they're not doing and and really simple like not nothing overwhelming for them but realize that you know this day that they have they got 24 hours and there's only a little bit amount of energy for it. And if they just keep trying to fight that thing it's going to consume them and then it's gonna consume the the kids are going to get the the worst of them rather than the best of them. And so again like it's really about specificity because I talk to dads about they're really specific about the crap that happened the past how it sucks. They can be really specific about details they can be really specific about thoughts can be really specific about what their ex said to them but very rarely are they very specific about what they want. And if you're not specific about what you want it's just a fantasy land. If you're not specific about what a great dad looks like what he talks like what he what his timetable looks like what his what his fitness looks like the types of people that he's hanging around if you don't get get specific there then that doesn't pull you. And you have to get pulled you're gonna get pulled in one direction or the other. You know I tell guys life is like you're really an elevator you're going up or down there is no in-between you're either growing or you're dying. So they have to make a decision on whether or not they want to grow or whether they want to die and go back to what they were doing. And the specificity gives them very clear intentions and activities that they need to do on a on a daily on an hourly and planning for those things before they come. What I mean by that like you're gonna get a text that's gonna piss you off. You're gonna get an email that's going to piss you off. You're gonna get something that happens you're gonna bump into somebody so we have to prepare them before they happen like we're we're just I'm in a constant thing about what's in your mind. Your inputs determine your outputs and if you don't have that stuff actually cleared audited and understood then you're just gonna keep going back to the old man. It's a groove in our mind it's like a our brain works in grooves and you've had a groove like that for a long time. And that's okay. We're gonna change the groove we've got to interrupt the pattern and put new patterns in there so that you can actually function in the middle of a crisis and you can have peace. Like you get to choose how you feel brother I don't I no matter I don't care what you want to say or what's going on you get to choose how you feel and I say the same thing to my kids. I say hey you know when they get mad something goes on hey I feel you I get it it hurt it sucks. What do you want to choose right now? What do you want to center down on? And those same rules apply for adults and same rules apply for what as you're growing you get to choose. And most of the time it's it's easy to choose the junk food thaws the stuff that you know raises those times of friction items and and that's you know it's the tale of two wolves you got darkness and despair is one wolf and you got light and hope is the other wolf and they say which one wins and it's the one that you feed and you determine which one wins each and every day. So that's kind of where I would walk down the road with some of these dads that are that are they going through hell they got a sword in one hand uh but they still got to be kind and gracious in the home with their kids.

SPEAKER_01 38:38

Yeah well and and there's only you can only control you like we we mentioned earlier you can only control one thing and that's yourself. So you're not gonna be able to control this outcome you're not gonna be able to control the the the the court system but knowing the lay of the land knowing and understanding the system how it works like Robert mentioned gives some gives you some peace of mind and and helps you to stay settled in that how you then decide to to utilize that and the choices that you make around that have a significant impact and what I'm hearing you say is then you get to choose are you going to choose peace? Are you going to choose how you show up with with with your kids because that's ultimately what we're worried about and concerned about right is our is our kiddos and and their well-being and helping them to to grow up to be healthy functioning adults so being able to control that that mindset through dealing with all this these legal this legal mindfield and and difficulties and and and challenges is going to have a huge huge impact on on what happens over the next uh decade while you're with your kids and really the next decades after your kids are grown and and you have adult relationships with that too which is I think one thing that sometimes we as dads don't think about we're in the here and present and worried about what's going on but uh we've got decades with with with kiddos that's that we're gonna be uh helping them along and and still having an impact in their lives. All right let's um so my question I've got a like a just a an an open question that I would like you both to answer and we'll start with you Robert if we're looking ahead to the next decade and moving towards a future where 5050 is the national default default or if we look ahead to the next day decade are we seeing things move towards 5050 default or are we going to be moving more towards the subjective abuse screening laws what what do you see happening here with this with this battle? Like I opened with it's kind of a crossroads where where do you think we're gonna be going in the next decade?

SPEAKER_02 40:47

So I've said this before I feel that this is the largest civil rights movement since the civil rights because it affects every man, woman, child, race, color, creed you're gonna see a big shift especially with the administration that we have all the things that are going on in the world but the biggest thing is our social media and the influencers that are on here if they would just all of us articulate the fix for this and to dispel all of the misinformation this would be over very quick. They can't keep on just like me I I think I have over 100,000 followers if I wanted to do a campaign I can actually target you know like let's just say Colorado legislators. I know what to use to be able to target just them. I can dispel that information very quickly. In fact we've started doing it in different states and it's working very very well so this next session you're gonna see a massive shift in in dispelling all this misinformation and what's going on and whatever

False Allegations Perjury And Proof Standards

SPEAKER_02 41:45

else they can't keep getting away with it. When they can't attack your laws or or a subject they'll go after that person right so like parental alienation they keep trying to target Richard Gardner and and his name rather than just talking about the term now let's talk about parental alienation real quick so they keep saying that it's not real. Well it's in the dictionary look it up it's in every dictionary if you look up parental alienation it's actually just defined it's a term so for them to say it's not real now if they want to say it's not real because it's not in the DSM well domestic violence isn't in the DSM either the term so is that not real so they keep keep coming up with these crazy rabbit trails that aren't aren't going to hold up anymore. And so the faster we teach people these things the faster they can be dispelled. But I feel that in the next five years we're gonna literally have 50-50 shared shared parenting in all 50 states because that's the right thing to do. It's where the legislature meant to start at it was the it was the judges taking this their discretion and making an assumption which was never meant to be there. And it's funny that legislators call judicial discretion judicial overreach. And so and you could talk to legislators it's funny that they talk about that stuff. But if you understand what the meaning was supposed to be and they gave the judges the discretion and where to start actually they expected them to start at 50-50. They never expected him to start at the bottom of the barrel. If they would have thought that they would have put the guidelines way before this but now it's too much money the judicial sees where the bar's inserted now and that that's just crazy to me. Never before in history other than now has an organization like the bar been able to talk about laws that affect them. Yeah and and and rule so much on them. They've they've trained these legislators to to depend on them and that's totally wrong. All this was done for the people by the people and we we need to keep it that way. But that's why you know I train all these people another thing you know that I love what Anthony's doing is you know he's he's We need more people to be able to help these families going through this. On Tuesdays, I have a guy, his name's Rod McCall. He he went through parental alienation through family court and got his kid back. The judge said, Hey, go get your kid. So he went to the house with the cop to get his kid back and showed up to the door. The mom took the kid upstairs, shot him and shot the child and shot herself, killed both of them, right? While he was at the door with the cops. He he was a teacher then. Now he became a therapist. And so every Tuesday he comes in our group session and we do a support group and it's totally free. That's free too to help people going through this. He went through it and he knows how it is to get through the other side. We need more role models to help all of these families going through this, whether it's men, women, and that's the crazy part. In in just my advocacy, we actually have about 50% men and 50% women in our support groups and the bills themselves.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Yeah. No, that's so yeah, that that that's absolutely critical what you talked about. And there are there are resources. Your your your group, Anthony's group, our the divorced advocate group here, and getting guys involved in this stuff for for so many reasons. You cannot be, you cannot self-isolate yourself during this this process because it is so complex and there's so much going on that you need, like Anthony said, borrow another, borrow another brain, borrow a shoulder, like borrow a brother that is that is that has been through this so that you can get through the the difficult and challenging times. So so same question.

SPEAKER_03 45:40

Can I throw a question to Robert?

unknown 45:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:42

Dude, I got a question, man. So just I think this would help a lot of dads just to understand, you know, because you're on you're you're you're doing some major stuff and you know, with legislature and and those bills and those kinds of things. If we looked at like the last 24 months and from where where we are today, when you are have been advocating and doing those things and dropping those things in what do you feel like has been a win for you in those areas? Like what could dads look at and be like, hey, that would that that could be helpful for me? Like is there is there specific things, states, like what do you feel like has worked in in what you've been doing?

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Well, we have this 30-second thing that we do after we teach people our bills, and it it you have 30 seconds to tell your story. That has probably been one of the most useful tools to, and we put a timer on there and we tell people, look, go through up on chat GPT, tell it everything that you want to say, sun was shining, the grass was green, whatever. Yeah, and then say, make me a 30-second speech to tell my tell my story. Having them repeat that every week, nobody told me about it, it just came to me. But it actually gets them out of that trauma loop that they have to tell everything about their story, and they can actually get it out in 30 seconds, and it just saves their friends, their family a bunch of time and trouble, but and the legislators, but literally they could tell their story in 30 seconds, and it's the most amazing thing.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

Yeah. So what what about on the legislature side? So the stuff that you've submitted has have things softened, moved. Is there anything in those areas in that? And then as we move forward, I know you dropped the one pager, you know, what's the time? Like, I look, I kind of I guess the picture that I have is in Arizona, we have like every freeway under construction, but there's like never a an end date. And so it just feels like you're always under construction. So I guess like what I'm what I'm curious, and and I think it would help dads also to understand, is like the stuff that you're submitting and doing, is there timetables? Does it hit? Like when does it drop? When does it actually like what what are you seeing?

SPEAKER_02 47:50

So the way that we do it is that I've I've did a legislator pack, and so it's an email, it's a couple of paragraphs that you just copy paste to your legislator, background for the bill, and then the bill itself. And all the bills are about one pagers. Legislators love them because what you do is you email to your legislators. You email to your legislator, and they're they don't want to hear family court stuff, they're tired of hearing everybody. I went to 40-something states, I I went to knocking on doors, I told them my story, nothing changed. Nothing in 40-something states. And that's why I figured out that the bills were were the way to do it. And so when you get that Zoom meeting, you send it to us, we pop in the Zoom with you, you tell them your 30-second story of what what your problem was in family court. Hey, my ex was withholding the children, and here's a solution for it. And then I tell them what the solution is and why, you know, they can ask all the questions they want. But that legislator is like, wow, okay, someone that finally came to me with the problem and the solution told me in 20 minutes, they're very articulate. The this parent didn't throw up all over me. They told me in 30 seconds, I love this. We're good. And they take the bill, they turn it into a bill number, they put it through the House, through the Senate, and in six months it becomes law.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

And how many of those have come have have have you gotten through?

SPEAKER_02 49:09

So I just finished all 12 bills in the last eight to nine months. Okay, they're brand new bills, they've never been through legislatures. Now the ones that have been are the one in Texas, Time Taken Time Back. That became law. It went through unanimous bipartisan the first time the governor signed off on it. North Dakota took the time taken time back. They did double the time back. That way it really disincentivizes. Utah just passed it also about a month and a week ago. And so right now we have about 30 of our of these 12 bills in multiple states right now going through legislatures.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

Okay. Yeah, that that that yeah, that's awesome. I think I think it just helps to hear, especially other, you know, guys that

Procedural Failures That Hide The Truth

SPEAKER_03 49:55

are unaware of how how you know, I think most of us think that these things just take forever. So I also think it's good to hear that there's there's some movement, you know, Texas, Dakota, Utah, and as you continue to to kind of you know, drop these things in, especially when one grabs on, it's a lot easier for people to kind of leverage that into into the next one. So I think that I think just from from people that are in it, it's it's helpful for them to see that there's there's some movement forward, that there's some things that are working because otherwise it just feels like it's just construction all the time and it's never never fixed.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

There's uh I don't even know, you know, where we would be without these bills because it actually fixes the problem, but it exposes even more so the problem and gives a solution for it. And so this is I I think I'm telling you, this is just the right time, right place, right climate. Yeah, and everybody, you know, a lot of these, you know, people that are online influencers, they actually have been training, whether they knew it or not, about the problem. And now it's very easy to implement that solution and talk about it very fluently. And they've already got all their aggression and whatever else out there, right? They did that early on in their podcasting or whatever, burn the system down, whatever it is. And so now it's actually the perfect time that that all this stuff hits. So yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_03 51:18

Yeah, thanks for sharing that, dude. That's helpful.

SPEAKER_01 51:20

Yeah, yeah, and and and so let's talk about some more more W's because Kentucky, Florida, Arkansas, West Virginia, Missouri, Texas, North Dakota, like those, these are all places that have had some progress in at least the 50-50 part of it. So that's definitely from just three years ago, Robert, you know, that's been it, that's a huge, huge change. And so I I agree with you 100%. The challenge is what you described early, which is this is entrenched, right? If we're seeing if we're if we're watching the national news and all the all the all of the the stuff with all the fraud that's going on and everything that's entrenched, when you've got these systems that are entrenched, it's just working through it, but it can be done. And like you said, it's just knowing it, understanding the system. Robert has done, dad's listening, and I and I know some dads that are listening are like, you know, I don't have the mental capacity to do this right now. Fine, that's okay. When you do, it's still going to be here, and there's still gonna be work to be done. Robert has created Robert has put this all together to make it just as easy as it possibly can be. I've spent time in politics, I understand the the sausage making, and I've seen how ugly it is. This is this is plug and play for any dad that wants to get involved to help make an impact on this in this process. And and Robert not only has already done the heavy lifting lifting, he continues to do the heavy lifting and some other organizations throughout the United States in actually moving this through the legislatures and and and getting them done.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

So uh so yeah, so it is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

I'll be in DC next week doing a bunch of stuff on a federal level. And that's the stuff that I don't talk about very much because that moves way slower, and I hate giving people false hope. I'll never do it. So you won't see me going on there, oh, we're gonna do this, it's da da da da. No, I'll never do that. Like I'd never want to give I know what that feels like, right? It's like that same roller coaster, you're going in family court, that false hope one day you're down, up, down, up, down, up. Crazy. I never want to have somebody on that roller coaster, but I can tell you change is coming and it's coming for all 50 states in the world, and and the family court has breeded all of these advocates, which is great. I mean, it's not great that you went through it, all of you all, but if you're going through it and you want to make a difference, this is your chance to make a difference. All it is is an email or a phone and a phone call to set that appointment up with your legislator, and literally we can get the bill in your state, and and it makes a massive difference when it comes from someone's constituent rather than me just co-calling a legislator. So Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:06

So, Anthony, what's one non-negotiable that's that a dad can take uh today to protect his custody and his sanity?

SPEAKER_03 54:15

Yeah. I yeah, I go through usually with dads of five five non-negotiables that we run through, and it's it's usually unique to their situation, usually involves some type of spiritual discipline, has a mental discipline to it, usually there's a physical discipline to it. There's also some things that you need to do for your cash flow disciplines, but I'd say if there's if there's one thing, one of those non-negotiables for me, it would probably be my spiritual picking up the spiritual weights, my my my time with Jesus is real. Those moments of of picking up spiritual weights is real. I know a lot of people they're not into it, and that's okay. But I do believe that, you know, through the stuff that we do, that there's a there's a very big component, forgiveness, I believe, is really attached to that, with where a lot of these dads are really getting eaten up inside, and and and you know, the whole the whole saying of, you know, it's like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies. And that's what I would say, man. The forgiveness part is probably bigger than you realize.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Good. I like that. You know, we talk about taking care of mental, emotional, physical all the time, but we I think that we don't talk about taking care of that spiritual. And when you're going through a chaotic time like this, anchoring to something that's bigger and greater than yourself, it has a huge, huge impact on being able to get through that process for sure. Robert, same same question. What what non-negotial non-negotiable can a dad take tonight to protect his custody and his sanity?

SPEAKER_02 55:41

Yeah, I think just don't let any of this change who you are. Don't let it change your heart. That's one of the things that has kept me through all this, is that I never, when I felt it changing it or anger or anything else, I just kept repeating that, you know, just don't let it change me. Stay who you are, surround yourself with family and friends. You know, I had dinner night every Tuesday night. I call it Tuesday dinner nights. And I'm

Next Decade Predictions And Recent Wins

SPEAKER_02 56:10

like, look, just bring whatever you want to drink and I make something different. It helped me to actually, I can, I'm actually a very good cook now because I ordered Epicurious Magazine, and every Tuesday I just said, hey, anybody is I just put on social media, anyone wants to come over, bring a friend, whatever, and and I'll cook. And sure enough, every Tuesday at least 10 people showed different people. They would bring a friend, whatever. I made so many friends, and it kept me going through the week because the weekends are easy. Yeah, friends, you know, people are off work, whatever. It's those Tuesday, Wednesdays are hard. And so just keep yourself surrounded with friends and family, and you know, just uh I just found a way to turn my pain into policy, and and you can too.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

Yeah, I I love that. And I mentioned the dropping the ladder to the next guy. Dad's listening, you don't have to be completely through this, you don't have to be 16 years down the road like Robert, 13 or me, like I don't, Anthony, I don't even remember how many years. I think it was seven or eight or something he said. You don't need to be that far down the road. You know, in in religious circles, they call it duckling discipleship, right? Like you just need to be a little bit down this road to be able to reach back to another dad and and and give him a hand, even just give them a here, you know, just give them an ear and listen. You can have a coffee with him and just listen to a dad that's uh that's going on, or get on one of the calls, Robert's calls, Anthony's calls. We got a lot. I guess I'll I'll wrap up with we've got a ton, you you you alluded to it, Robert. We got a ton of influencers, if you will. I'm not, you know, I'm I'm I'm uncomfortable with that that word, but I mean we are on social media, all of us, so there are a lot more influencers out there, a lot more people talking about this stuff, and it is absolutely amazing that that there are people like you guys and the others that are starting to take their pains, start to take their experience and use it to help other dads.

SPEAKER_02 58:11

I think I looked at the statistic. There's only 16,000 family court judges and legislators in the U.S. 16,000. I have 100,000 followers myself. We put all of us together. We can actually influence elections. We can influence who gets elected for judges, for legislators, and everything else. We need to take this back. This is for the people by the people, but we need to be organized about this. You need to be healed. You don't need to be taking that anger and you know that that's why we have those Tuesday dinner or sorry, those Tuesday support groups and stuff like that. You need to be okay for yourself, for your children. It will make you be a better parent, you know, to get help with Anthony or any of these other people that are reaching out. But, you know, you you just need to be a better parent and a better person and get healed. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:04

Yeah, that's that's that's fantastic. Robert, let the the dads listening know how they can get involved with you and and the work that you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 59:12

Yeah, you can go to my Facebook page, Robert Garza. You can go to my website, RobertGarza.us, sign up to join the team and you join the movement. You just put your name, address, phone number, and then also check the box to get notifications. That that's where you get the Zoom link every Monday and Wednesday and Tuesday for the Zoom sessions for the support group and for the legislation. As far as the legislation goes, even if you're not going to do it, I suggest you come in there and learn it because it will make you understand why you went through what you went through and you get a different understanding, and then you understand that it it's not so much, of course it was your ex, but it was the system that allowed it. And once you understand how to change that game that they're playing and that you can actually do it yourself, it empowers you like you would not believe.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:03

Awesome, awesome. What's your address? So uh next Tuesday I can come down to Texas and get a gourmet meal at the Garza Household.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

Yeah, so I thought very about 11, 11, 12 years ago. And so that kind of stopped after that. But for about six years, it was it was it was really hard, man. I I know what it feels like to be alienated, to be paranoid, to have your cortisol crazy, to the ups and downs, to checking out your window to see if someone what who's gonna serve you next? Is it the post office guy or the or or a process server? I hate that you went through that, all of you parents, but I know what it feels like, and that's why I I made all these bills, is so we can change it for the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

Yep, absolutely. Anthony, how can the guys get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

Yeah, look, guys, if you you want to get you back, you want to get your life back, obviously Divorce Dads of America on Instagram is where we we get it done. And then we have our school community called the Ascent. It's a climb. We were a band of brothers that are all doing it together, and we got your back, and we'll carry you when when you're starting, and and you'll start carrying others in the process. We're gonna transform a million dads, it's gonna take 20 years. And if that's a nudge for you that you think that you're ready to start and kick that thing off, then I suggest you can jump in for free and check it out and then start climbing.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:25

Awesome. Hey gentlemen, I I sincerely appreciate uh you taking the time today to to share with the dads. I you are a godsend to to to men and to to dads in the work that that you're doing. And so I just want to bless you with what with what you're doing and just give you a sincere thank you for for for

Nonnegotiables Support Groups And Where To Start

SPEAKER_01 1:01:45

everything. I look forward to us keeping in touch, continuing with our respective communities and helping our respective communities to uh to do the good work that that we're all doing. Thanks for for sharing with me today. Thanks, Jude. Thanks for having me. Thanks, guys.