Choosing or Changing Your Therapy Office with Caryn Rinaldini

Caryn Rinaldini and I discuss how she chose her vision therapy office and when she knew it was time to change to a new doctor/therapist. 

Caryn moderates the Looking Ahead Adult Strabismus Support group on Facebook. Here's a link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/436525109695223.

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Transcript

Denise: Welcome to the Healing Our Sight podcast. I'm your host, Denise Allen. Today I have with me my friend Karen Rinaldini, who you have heard from before. And we decided it would be helpful to discuss a topic that I think is important to everyone going into therapy, about how you decide on a therapist, a doctor's office, and when, you know, it's time to maybe look for a new office or a new therapist, a new doctor in your vision therapy journey.

So we'll go ahead and start by just going through the journey that you've been on. Right, Karen, as far as all the different pieces that we're still putting together and where you ended up and why and all of that.

Caryn: Well, thank you, Denise, for having me back again. I'd love coming here and talking to you, as you know.

Denise: Yes, that's equally on my part.

Caryn: Okay. So I did not. I had surgery, and my surgeon did not recommend vision therapy. He actually told me vision therapy would not help me. I had some not good effects from the surgery, which I know now is similar to having a traumatic brain injury. So basically, my brain sort of shut down and I ended up in vestibular therapy therapy, which, because I'd gone to an ENT who had recommended that. So I was in vestibular therapy, and it was a vestibular therapist who told me that I needed to go to vision therapy. And I was nervous about it because I'd always heard that vision therapy didn't work. So he sent me to a doctor who was very well known and very renowned, and she examined me. It was a very long examination, about two hours, and then said, no, I can't do anything for her.

Denise: Wow.

Caryn: Yeah, nothing. So she wouldn't even. She wouldn't even try.

Denise: So can we back up for just one minute? Because I. For those people who haven't heard your story, when we talked before, the effects that you had didn't happen immediately after the surgery.

Caryn: No. No. So I had surgeries. So I've had strabismus my entire life. And I had two surgeries when I was young, and the eye turn became worse as an adult. And so I had surgery. And at first it was fine.I had alternating exotropia, and I was noticing that my eyes were alternating quite a bit, especially at night. Like, I had stopped driving at night. And then I started getting a little dizzy, started getting a little nauseous. And for some reason, I flew on a plane, and it was a complete breakdown of my vestibular, visual, and sensory system. I had zero spatial awareness, zero depth perception. I was dizzy, nauseous, the whole thing. I actually didn't work for eight months. I couldn't leave my house. So I went to many doctors, and I did not realize that it was my eyes. My vestibular therapist told me from day one it was my eyes, and it took me a long time to believe him.

Denise: Wow. I think that it's hard to connect it when it was that far after the surgery, you know, And I've seen people talk about how they feel disoriented after the surgery or they have absolutely no change in their vision. But, I mean, what did you experience right after? Did you have a change in your vision, or was it just that you felt yourself alternating more?

Caryn: I don't believe I had any change in my vision.

Denise: Okay.

Caryn: I don't believe I did. It wasn't until I read Sue Berry's book when I realized that a lot of things that I did were not normal. I did not know the clumsiness. I was always very clumsy. I had low blood pressure and low blood sugar. So, if I was dizzy or a little disoriented, I thought it was due to that. Now, in hindsight, I realize how much was actually due to my eyes.

Denise: Right. I think that's the thing that a lot of people don't realize, and surgery doesn't change how the brain is functioning and how the eyes are doing their job because it just puts them in a different place and makes it look good to everyone else.

Right?

Caryn: Yeah. I mean, it was fabulous having straight eyes. I absolutely was thrilled. And I remember I asked a lot of people I knew, okay, tell me the truth. What did it seem like when my eyes weren't straight? And that was. That was wonderful. But it didn't change my vision. It actually made my vision worse because my brain said, okay, I know how to function with your eye turning out, but I do not know how to function with you having straight eyes. So instead of accommodating, which it did my entire life, it just decided, I'm just not going to do anything. And that's really what happened to me. And it was about. It was about maybe six months to a year after the surgery when this happened. And it happened when I flew. It was a short flight, a few hours, and I'm not sure if the flight had anything to do with it.

The vestibular therapist and the vision therapists have thought that was interesting, that it happened. The complete breakdown happened after a flight, but we don't know about that. It could have been just coincidence.

Denise: Okay, so all of the doctors that you went to said it's not connected to your vision. There's nothing we can do. Um, it's all in your head, right?

Caryn: Oh, gosh. I went to. I'm trying to think. Neuro, optometrist, ophthalmologist. Oh, I can't even remember. I went to every and every doctor that would see me. I had MRI and an mri. I just continually, continually kept looking for new doctors. My poor vestibular therapist kept telling me, it's your eyes.

And we made an agreement that if I didn't get better by a certain day, I was going to go see  a neuro optometrist. And he said, you know, the doc, he's just going to give you medication which is not going to help you.

And so he said, you go ahead and make that appointment and hopefully you'll cancel it. And fortunately, I did. Fortunately, I went with him.

Denise: So then you found the first vision therapy doctor.

Caryn: Okay, so I went to the first vision therapist, optometrist, and she said, there's nothing I can do for you. The vestibular therapist said, okay, I'm going to send you to another doctor and let's see what he says. So I had another exam and he said, well, this is a tough one, but I will work with her and let's see what happens. And he promised me nothing. Promised me nothing. The therapy with him was a lot about grounding. There was a lot of snow angels. There was a lot of grounding activities, marts and ball activities, which was great. And I was moving forward.

But I got to a point where I thought I was functioning. And I told him I wanted to get a job. And he said. He highly recommended me not to and said it was too soon for me to work full time, But I did anyway. So I got a job and I was still going to therapy, but I was canceling because I had a new job and I was struggling with the computer. It was not easy.

And after about a year, I really started having trouble. And I was thinking it was time for me to go back seriously to therapy. And I remember I stopped driving again and I took an Uber to his office and I did snow angels. And I thought, okay, this is not going to help me.

I need a lot more than this. But Covid happened, which meant I wasn't driving anymore, I wasn't working as much, and things were a lot mellower in my life.

So I was able to focus on the therapy and I Decided that I needed a new therapist. And so I found a new therapist. I was working with this second therapist under the direction of the doctor.

And interesting enough, the therapist recommended to me that I switch to a different doctor in the office, but she thought the other doctor would better be suited for my condition. And she was probably right. She was probably right.

And with this doctor, I was able to fuse. So I learned how to fuse, which was very, very, very exciting. Seeing this doctor I saw in 3D for the first time, which was amazing.

And I saw this therapist for a few years. I then started feeling like maybe I just wasn't making enough progress or maybe I needed something new. And that's when we went to the COVID conference together.

So, I thought I could learn something. And I did. I absolutely did. And I met a doctor there who lives in a different state, and I actually flew to the other state to do vision therapy. And I was going to be happy flying once a month to go do vision therapy in another state. At this point, I just wanted to get to the end. I wanted to get to the finish line, and I was going to do anything it took. So doing more research and actually meeting someone on the Facebook group, Looking Ahead Strabismus Support Group, which I administer. I met someone and spoke to her, and she recommended another doctor that was close to me.

And I started seeing her, and I'm seeing her currently. Oh, I forgot. I did find on the Internet another doctor in between this. And I came to the appointment, and I said, look,

I know exactly where I am. I need you to partner with me. I don't want to have the traditional doctor patient relationship. I know a lot about strabismus. I know a lot about therapy. I know a lot about what I've been through.

And I want this to be a partnership and for us to work together. So we had a very long meeting, very long examination, and then I went for therapy. And I told her, I want to do therapy with you, not with a therapist. We agreed in all of this. And I went for my first session, and she put me in front of different computer screens and had her assistant help me. And I thought, okay, you did not understand what I was talking about, right?

Yeah. So, then I went, so now back to the therapist that I'm seeing now. She's an optometrist. She believes that my case is too complicated for any of our therapists, even though her therapists are well trained, and she is determined to get me to the finish line.

Denise: Nice.

Caryn: And that is where I am now and on our next podcast, I will be telling you how after almost eight years, I am done with vision therapy.

Denise: Okay, so you're saying you're not going to do another one with me until you're to that point?  Is that what I'm hearing ?

Caryn: No, because I, I don't know that that's going to happen. I'd like it manifesting it to happen, but I don't know that that will happen.

Denise: That's what we hope happens. Definitely.

Caryn: That's what we hope. Oh, you will know. The whole world will know, when I'm done, everyone will know about this.

Denise: Yes. That will be exciting. That's, that's always been your optimistic hope. And that's one of the things I love about you, is that you know where you want to be and you're determined to get there.

Caryn: Okay, I have something exciting to share with you.

Denise: What's that?

Caryn: So, okay, so because I live in California, I don't get to experience snow. And as I told you, now that I see in 3D, I really want to be in snow. So the optometrist told me, she said, you know what, buy a bubble machine, she said, and it's going to be better because the bubbles are bigger and they go smaller. So she said, just get a bubble gun. But I bought like a bubble machine, like a full on bubble machine that shoots it up high in the air and it's being delivered Saturday. So I'm very excited about this.

Denise: That sounds so fun.

Caryn: Yes.

Denise: And who would have thought that that would be part of your therapy? Right?

Caryn: Exactly, exactly. And that's one thing to look for, is creativity.

Denise: Mm.

Caryn: In vision therapy.

Denise: So I, I think that's great. I mean, how many doctors along the way or therapists along the way could have said that to you? Right.

Caryn: Exactly, exactly.

Denise: So do you think that any realistic expectations are being set for people when they go to vision therapy?

Caryn: Yes and no. I think I’ve never been told that I would be able to see in 3D. And I always was meant to feel like it was an unrealistic goal. I think what's really important as a patient is to really understand yourself what you're doing and take an active part in the therapy. Especially as an adult. Right, especially as an adult. And I feel like you need to share with the therapist what you feel is going to work for you. It's so. There have been so many times where I've said, yeah, I don't, I don't want to do this. Like I. Or have said, okay, I don't want to work on this anymore. Or I said, can we do this differently? Or I've said, can you please explain to me what I need to see? I know that when you first start an exercise, a lot of times you can't do or can't see what you're supposed to.

And in the beginning, I felt like they wouldn't say, okay, this is what you need to see.

They would just say, what do you see? And I learned you have to say, what am I supposed to see? So, you have a goal, or it helps your brain to figure it out. I mean, it's the. The brain is just. It's absolutely fascinating. And I don't know if you went through this, but when I do an. If I have an exercise where in the beginning I can't do, I get to a point where I feel like my brain understands it. It doesn't exactly see it, but my brain believes it's possible. And that's the first step. And that's always very exciting when that happens, because when that happens, you know that you'll be able to do it.

Denise: I feel like that was what I was doing for the whole first section of my therapy before my surgery, because I knew I should be able to see it a certain way, and I couldn't. But as soon as my eyes were aligned, because I had gone through all the therapy, my brain knew what to do, my eyes knew what to do, and they could finally do it.

Caryn: Exactly.

Denise: One of the concerns that surfaces for me as I'm looking at comments on the Facebook groups is the whole, oh, I did vision therapy for three months, six months, a year. Vision therapy doesn't work. It's like a blanket statement. I did it for X amount of time, and it didn't work for me. Therefore, it doesn't work. And I think that that's often unrealistic.

Caryn: That makes me very, very, very sad when I see that. Very sad because you. I mean, if you. I know with children and adults, it's a little different, but as an adult, you, like I said before, you have to take ownership of your therapy. Are you doing your exercises? It took me a long time to figure out the right time of day to do my exercises. I'm not successful in the morning. I just. My. My brain can't. Cannot do exercises in the morning. I like to do it after lunch. And I divide up my therapy in two parts. So I do one right after I have lunch, and then I do One later in the afternoon, if I would have thought trying, pushing myself to do in the morning or at night, it probably wouldn't have worked because I would have never been able to do it. Or trying different things, trying different ways. It's. Unfortunately, there's. It's not easy. It's just not. It's just not. And if you don't have a therapist that you feel you're connecting with, it's okay to find someone else. And it doesn't mean that they're bad at what they're doing. They're just not working for you.

Denise: Right.

Caryn: I think all the therapists that I've worked with have been great, and I've learned a lot from them, and they all gave me something, but I had to keep pushing forward on my journey.

Denise: In hindsight, do you wish that you would have made some changes sooner than you did?

Caryn: Uh, maybe. I think I was with one of the therapists. I think I was stuck. And I waited it out a long time, and that's. And. But then I knew I was going to the conference, and I thought, going to the COVD conference, I would learn something that I would either bring back to therapy to the therapist I was seeing, or it would help me to find a new therapist. And I ended up finding a new therapist.

Denise: Right. When we're trying to help other people decide for themselves when it's a good time to make a change, what would your suggestions be?

Caryn: That's a hard question, because I know a lot of people have problems with where they live and where the closest therapist is. So, I feel like that is a big struggle I see often on Facebook. But there are doctors and therapists that I know can work virtually. So, I know especially with, like, a vivid vision or optics trainer, where you have, you know, the headset, or you can do something virtually, I think there are lots of options. I think if. If you. Now, if you feel stuck and I. I want to be careful in saying that because you absolutely hit plateaus.

Denise: Yeah.

Caryn: I don't know. The longest time I was in a plateau, I would guess six months. I think I. There were periods that I've gone. I could go. Six months of seeing, no progress at all.

Denise: Mm.

Caryn: It's so frustrating. And you can't give up, and you can't give up, and you just keep doing it. And.

Denise: I felt that too, because I was learning things. My brain knew what I was supposed to be doing. My eyes couldn't do it. I knew they were supposed to, you know, and so then I would go and I would have the evaluation and he would say, it's the same. And I would feel frustrated because I knew my brain, it wasn't the same.

Caryn: Right.

Denise: But I still couldn't do it. And so that's why putting all the pieces together is so important and saying, okay, well, maybe I do have to just trust that the surgery will work in my situation and go forward with it, you know, even though that was the last thing I wanted to do was have surgery, because for me, that was the step I had to take. And for other people, it might not be. So being conscious. Yeah, being conscious of what your journey is and being willing to take that next step.

Caryn: Right. And I think if you're going to make the effort to do the therapy, unfortunately, you're going to have to learn a lot. There's so many resources available. And of course, you know, as we all say, you know, Stu Berry's fixing my gaze is step one and absolutely life changing.

Denise: Right.

Caryn: But, you know, I lived my entire life being told, there's nothing you can do about this. You'll never be able to fly a plane or play golf, and you'll figure out how to drive. I've been told that for so many years of my life. And I think there are more resources out there now than there was when. When I was growing up. So, I hope people are taking advantage of that and the Facebook support groups and your podcast and all the great people out there that are doing something about strabismus awareness or knowledge to understand it, because it's not easy. And I think the more you understand it for yourself or your child, the better success you can have.

Denise: Yeah, well, and you said, unfortunately, you have to learn a lot about it in order to be successful. But I. I don't look at it as an unfortunate thing, necessarily.

Caryn: Yeah, you're right.

Denise: It's. It's part of the journey, really. Our brain has to have an awareness of what it's supposed to do in order for us to have the success. Right.

Caryn: I look through Facebook support groups every day, even though I've been doing this for so many years. I always think I could read something that is going to make me think of it in a different way or help me in some way. And sometimes there are. There absolutely are. I hear things that other people say, but I'm constantly. I look with the hopes of finding something new and it could be something so small. Just so small.

Denise: Yeah. Often just looking at things in a different way makes all the difference.

Caryn: And that's the whole thing with the therapists. You know, I know I'm a rare case. I mean, I don't know how many people have done therapy as long as I have.

Denise: Not very many, for sure. Not very many. But that's one reason why I think it's so important that people understand that it's not a one and done thing. And it's not necessarily that there's nothing that can be done. It's a matter of finding the right person that can reach what your brain is willing to do. Right. Or put all the pieces together and just connect everything. Because you were saying the one that you're at now is doing things that maybe were holes in what was going on before and just kind of connecting all the dots, moving.

Caryn: Exactly, exactly. She's looking at me like, okay, this is great. You can do this. You can do this. You're missing this little piece here. We're going to go backwards and get that piece and then we're going to do something else. What? Another element that I found really interesting is that I've had breaks in therapy throughout these years due to work or due to life circumstances or things like that. And I remember my therapist at the time told me, the skills that you've learned, and you totally mastered, you won't lose. And I thought that was interesting. And I almost didn't believe her, but it was true. So, when I really mastered something, I didn't lose that. I still had that maybe the skills that weren't fully mastered, those skills I would lose.

Denise: Yeah, that makes sense. And it makes me think about what I've discussed with my daughter, because she didn't have vision therapy that long, and she, you know, she gained 3D and it's like, okay, now I'm done. She was only 10. She didn't really want to do more therapy anyway. But I've talked to her more recently and she indicated that maybe she had done a little backsliding, and she should probably do a little therapy again, you know, And I think maybe that's an indication that we need to be aware of how children are doing as well. You know, any. Anybody in their vision therapy if they didn't master the thing like you're saying, they could lose it if they're not continually aware of strengthening their abilities, you know, having some kind of a ongoing thing that they do that keeps everything dialed in.

Caryn: Yeah, actually, my husband asked me the other day, he said, when you aren't doing therapy anymore, are you still going to be doing things? And I think I'll probably have to, even if it's just the Brock string, which I'm very proud of myself for saying that because I couldn't do the Brock string for so long and now I can't to just sit casually say, oh, I'll do the Brock string. Possible.

Denise: I love that. The Brock string was the hardest thing for me also. And I don't find myself choosing that as the thing that I do. Maybe I should. But I. I have pulled some of my activities out more recently because for a long time I didn't do anything. And I thought, well, maybe I should just fine tune or get more control, more distance ability because I can do the activity maybe 2ft out, but I can't do it 3ft out or whatever. Or can't hold it that far out just to get better. Because I think we can all always improve.

Caryn: Yeah, I think my collapse was so dramatic. I think I'll be so scared that that will happen again that I think I'll always do something. And I'm so. I mean, it's been eight years and not every day. I mean, there's weeks where I do it every day. There are weeks where I do it twice a day and there's week twice a week and there's days that I do it. I don't do anything because usually because of work. Yeah. I'm wondering what I'll be doing when I'm not. I can't even imagine not having therapy. Like, I can't even fathom that. But it'll be a good problem to have.

Denise: Exactly. We want that problem, right?

Caryn: Yeah, absolutely.

Denise: So, I think we touched on a lot of the ideas that kind of came up as I was contemplating our talk today. Would you say there were certain things as you were looking for a therapist that were red flags in this. This one is not going to work for me.

Caryn: Yes. So, I went to one therapist and she had vivid vision, which is something I've been doing for quite a while. And she said, I need you to sit down and do it. And I said, I've been doing this for two years and I always do it standing up. She said, well, I need you to sit down. And I thought, okay, this is not going to work for me. This is not going to work for me. I think you have to have a good relationship. I think you have to feel a connection to your therapist. You know, in general, for all my health problems or whatever health problems I should have, if I don't like what the doctor says or if I don't agree, I will tell them and My primary care doctor loves that about me because he knows if he says, I think we should do this, and I say, eh, I don't know. He respects that. And he likes that because he. And he'll say, you know your body better than anyone else. So, if you're investing time, money, energy for something so important, you have to have a good connection. And another thing I find oftentimes there's the best doctor or the best vision therapies, and sometimes they're not. They're not the best for you. They could be the best for someone else. And that's okay.

Denise: That's okay.

Caryn: I went to see a neuro optometrist, something world renowned. I had a connection to someone who was important person who was able to get me an appointment with this doctor that you cannot get an appointment with. And I went and he told me I had a vestibular migraine. And I walked out of there and I said, he's wrong. And my husband said, are you insane? This guy is world famous. He is an expert at this. I said, he is wrong. And I was right. He was wrong.

Denise: That was early on, wasn't it?

Caryn: Yeah, yeah.

Denise: He was absolutely wrong.

Caryn: He was wrong. And I went on the elimination diet and I did all of these things and nothing helped.

Denise: Right, yeah. Well. And that was when you were trying to figure out whether it was your eyes or something else at the beginning too. Yeah.

Caryn: My vestibular therapist, who I adore, was very entertained by this. He's like, okay, if you want to do the diet, go do the diet. That's fine. You're gonna hate it. Just do you know, he knew he was right and he was great because I was in a very fragile state. And I think he knew if he said, look, it's your eyes. It's 100% your eyes. That's it. And that I wouldn't have believed him because all the surgeons and all the esteemed doctors that I'd seen for all these years had told me vision therapy doesn't work. So, I had that in my mind, and he was respectful of that. And that's maybe why I'm so passionate about it, because I don't want people to have to go through what I went through.

Denise: Yeah, I don't either. And I. I think that there are people that are going through similar things where they have constant double vision, they can't function, and they really don't even know where to turn. And they go to the support groups and they tell their story, but that's not where you find the answer, necessarily.

Caryn: And just a little tidbit which is interesting. I've never, ever, ever had double vision. Everything I've been through, not went, had double vision.

Denise: Wow.

Caryn: Yeah. And even in, in therapy, I was told you'll probably go through a period of double vision, but it's okay. We'll give you prisms and, you know, you'll work through it. And it never happened.

Denise: Wow. I had a little bit of double vision at a certain distance. It was kind of. How far would it have been? Maybe 50ft. It was at church. I'd be concentrating on watching the person speaking and they would be double. And it was so disconcerting. It was always at that distance and just every now and then. And so I was grateful it wasn't all the time, but it was a problem, definitely. I mean, my doctor was trying so hard not to have me see any double. And every now and then, even now, and maybe it's just in my brain, I'll. I'll be that far away and look and say, oh, I, it does go double. Just, you know, if I'm really tired, it's like, oh, no, pull it in. You can keep it single here, you know, So I know there's still little pockets of improvement that I could definitely still make.

Caryn: Well, what I, what I'm hoping is because vision therapy is being used so much in sports for athletes that it'll become more accepted and more used for the people that actually need it for their day-to-day activities and not just to improve their athletic abilities.

Denise: Yeah. I'm still not sure whether it improved my athletic abilities because I still have a block against doing any of it.

Caryn: The funniest thing is I'm really good at playing pool. I do not. It doesn't make any sense. I cannot drive, I can't park, I can't play other sports. But for some odd reason, I love to play pool, and I don't have any issue and I'm good at it. It's very weird.

Denise: Isn't it more mathematical, like angles and stuff when you're playing pool, maybe. I mean, the balls aren't coming at you, and you don't have to reach out and grab them quickly. I mean, that's what gets me with every other thing that I try or think about.

Caryn: Okay. You're completely right. And I was so proud of myself that I had. You're right. It is more mathematical on its angles and it's not coming at me. So, yeah, you're right. Okay.

Denise: Glad we solved that problem. It's like thinking, even thinking about playing ping pong or tennis or baseball just kind of is triggering to me.

Caryn: It is triggering. I'll tell you, when my son was about 5, they had parents against kids soccer game. And I remember between the ball and all the kids running towards me, it completely freaked me out.

Denise: Wow.

Caryn: Yeah, it was a little frightening.

Denise: I. I have tried those when I was younger, but I was never good. And so I don't even want to try. Someone said, we should go play tennis. And I was like, or not.

Caryn: Well, and that's another thing I do want to. I'm hoping when I'm done with therapy, I do want to play tennis. I definitely want to try to play tennis. That seems very exciting to me to be able to do it.

Denise: I should just be willing to try it, right? If I was willing to come to China, I should be willing to play tennis.

Caryn: Yes, exactly. We'll play tennis together. That'll be fun. We'll be chasing a lot of balls, for sure.

Denise: Well, I. I know I'm supposed to be able to juggle now that I can see in 3D, but I still can't even do that. And that's part of why I'm still not sure I could do all those other things either.

Caryn: That's funny that you said that, because I brought out my juggling balls yesterday. I was playing with them yesterday.

Denise: I was too. I bought some more since I got to China.

Caryn: Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't do as well as I would have liked, but that's okay.

Denise: Well, it's going to be my goal because it's been suggested so many times on my podcast that I know it is important that I do that as my therapy. Really. And then if I can learn to juggle, then maybe I won't freak out over the idea of playing tennis or whatever other ball game someone suggests to me.

Caryn: You know, one thing I want to say about reviews and testimonials, one thing I notice, and for vision for anything, when doctors are really good, people don't write good reviews a lot of the time. Right. I think it's because they, you know, they don't want the doctor to get too busy or people complain more. So especially with doctors. Especially with doctors.

Denise: You don't put very much credence on the reviews, is what you say.

Caryn: No, not for doctors.

Denise: Okay. Well, I. I think there's such a variability in what works for people that it could absolutely not work for someone and be great for someone else. So, it's just that wasn't a fit for that person. t's important that we look for the one that's the right fit for us. So, if we were to look at this whole journey in Hindsight, hindsight being 20 20, is there anything that you would change in how you went about things?

Caryn:  Absolutely not. I think everyone who I've worked with along the way has absolutely helped me. I think I just got to a point in each, let's say relationship or working relationship, where I needed something a little different. But I wouldn't change anything. And I'm very grateful to have had the opportunity to work with all the people that I've worked with.

Denise: And I think the point of all of this is that everyone's journey is different. And I this is what I say all the time. Everyone's journey is so different. Everyone's situation is different. And we just have to find the results in our own way when we're ready.

Caryn: Exactly. What works for you?

Denise: Yeah. And luckily there's lots of options and lots of doctors, lots of therapists, lots of alternative medicine practices that can feed into helping us. And there's always a way to improve.

Caryn: Yes, always. Always.

Denise: Thank you for listening to the Healing Our Sight podcast. I'd love to hear from you. Please share and also join our Facebook community at Healing Our site to leave suggestions or comments.

Have a great day.