Redefining Successful Strabismus Treatment with Melissa Daniels

What if success in strabismus treatment isn’t just straight eyes—but integrated sight?

In this episode of Healing Our Sight, I’m joined by vision therapist and former patient Melissa Daniels for a transformative conversation on peripheral fusion and what it means to truly heal vision. Melissa shares insights from Dr. David Cook’s OVDRA (COVD) Conference presentation, including a fresh take on success that goes beyond appearance and focuses on function and connection. Melissa explains how Cook’s approach—focused on peripheral fusion and real-life functionality—resonated deeply with her, both professionally and personally.

Plus, Melissa reflects on creative strategies she learned from Jules Petteruto’s sessions that help make therapy more accessible, fun, and emotionally safe. 

Resources & Links:

Website: https://www.strabismussolutions.com

Course: Mastering Peripheral

Strabismus to Stereopsis on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqKqd8qa17tZKcYDZLL5sAA

Dr Cooks Treatise: https://pubs.covd.org/VDR/issue11-1/#

Click the link above to message me directly. It comes to me as FAN MAIL! How great is that? Just click on the place that says, "If you liked this episode CLICK HERE:"

Transcript

Denise: This is the Healing Our Sight podcast where we discuss vision issues and healing strategies from the patient perspective.

The goal of this podcast is to create an awareness of the diverse types of vision issues people experience, to highlight the types of help available,and to open a dialogue between patients to show we're not alone in our vision struggles.

As a patient who gained 3D vision at age 54 through vision therapy combined with strabismus surgery, I feel uniquely qualified to offer a hopeful, balanced perspective on the possibilities.

Please use the link in the show notes to send me a message and thanks for joining me today.

Denise: Today my podcast guest is Melissa Daniels, who's been on before and everyone should be well conversant with her. So welcome, Melissa.

Melissa: Thank you, Denise, for having me on again. This is always fun. I love chatting with you about vision.

Denise: I look forward to it so much. And I am so sorry that I couldn't go to the meeting this year with OVDRA, the COVD Annual meeting.

Melissa: Yeah, this was my first year going by myself, so that was interesting. Luckily, like, we've met people throughout the last couple years and so, you know, it was really fun and getting. Now it's like I'm familiar with people and so I get to say hi and it's just, it's really fun. I love the social aspect of the conference, for sure.

You know, you also learn so much, which is so fun. I love learning new things. It's just the best.

Denise: Yes. And did you find it was the same as far as how hard the different classes were to understand, as, you know, because you're not a doctor or was it more accessible or you're just. You just learn more all the time so it becomes more accessible. Right?

Melissa: Right. Well, I mean, I've been working as a vision therapist for almost two years now.

So with that, you know, it used to be so confusing when I was in like a traumatic brain injury class or a class about, like, accommodation and the focusing system.

That still is a little confusing for me, but I'm getting there. But now that I like, that's like the majority of patients that I'm working with on a daily basis. It just does change things. Like, I've done a lot more training in the office and, like, just done a lot of different training. So, yeah, it does make more sense. But there are still classes that I avoid. Like, there are certain classes where you look at the title and you're like, nope, that one is geared for doctors. Like, there was one on Esotropia by Brenda Montecalvo. I don't know actually how to say her name, but I already know, like, she's super smart and brilliant and like, uses a lot of words I don't understand.

So, I just didn't go to that one. I just stuck with the ones that were geared for vision therapists and then a couple bonus ones from speakers that I just love. And they always do an amazing job. That is, like, at a level I understand. So, this year I pretty much loved every single class that I got to go to.

So that was really fun and learned a lot of different things.

Denise: Great. So why don't you tell us about some of your favorite classes? What was your favorite takeaway moment?

Melissa: My favorite was definitely Dr. Cook. Like, he taught a class called Redefining Success. I think it let me read the full title because it's pretty funny.

A Treatise on Redefining Success and Optometric Optometric Vision Therapy for Strabismus based on a case study of 75 patients.

So essentially, he did a case study of 75 of his patients over the last who knows how many years with strabismus. And he just did a ton of research and statistics and comparing results and all these, all of these things, and then comparing that against what's been done historically in considering, like, what's a success and a cure for strabismus, and just kind of comparing, you know, what science says versus what patients are wanting. And then he presented it all, and he's just an amazing presenter and entertaining, and it was a subject near and dear to my heart.

So that was like, for sure, the highlight of the whole weekend. I definitely, like, loved. There's some classes about, you know, making vision therapy more fun. You had Jules Petteruto on your podcast, and I absolutely adore her. So she taught a couple classes that I gotta go to. And I just love the way she presents.

I love the way she thinks about things. So. as a vision therapist, I learned some amazing new techniques and ideas to use with patients. But as a patient, I love Dr. Cook's presentation about strabismus.

Denise: Yeah. So, when he, when he was on, he did mention that study, and I was looking forward to reading that as well. It's going to be fascinating to go through that whole thing. What is the way that he defines it now?

Melissa: Well, that is a great question. I will say. I will send you the link and if you want to put it in the show notes there, it's. It's like a. A 45 page document. So, buckle Up. Bring a highlighter.  I've never read a research article that made me cry before, but I did cry and laugh while reading this.

So, I'm like, that's pretty amazing that, I mean, so. But I'm, you know, I'm emotional about strabismus. I'm kind of a silly goose.

So, I think it's good to kind of compare what they used to consider success with strabismus and so that we can kind of see the compare and contrast situation.

So, I didn't know that this. But I. There was a guy Flom something Flom. Someone would have to correct me. But he is what they, like, are teaching in optometry school, ophthalmology school, about, like, what a cure is for strabismus. And so this is. He has, like, a list of criteria that you have to have for having a successful treatment of strabismus. And so, this is like, for surgery or vision therapy, whatever it is.

This is his criteria. So, I'll read it: clear, comfortable, single binocular vision must be present at all distances up to the near point of convergence, which is normal itself.  Which, you know. near point of convergence is how close you can look at your nose and converge your eyes, bring your eyes in and keep it single and comfortable. So basically, you have to get all the way to your nose and be comfortable.

With both eyes working, there must be stereopsis and normal ranges of motor fusion. An occasional turning of the eyes may occur up to 1% of the time provided, providing diplopia is experienced whenever this happens. So, he's saying 1% of the time your eye can, like, wander for a second, like, if it's an intermittent turn, but you aren't allowed to have double vision when that turn happens, which that's interesting in itself.

And then correction lenses and small amounts of prism up to 5 may be worn if necessary. So, I think everyone with strabismus would be like, yeah, I totally want that. That would be fantastic. Like, that is amazing, right?

But it's also like, really, really, like, who's gonna get that? And so when you go to the surgeon and they're like, thinking of the Flom cure, they're like, oh, no, it's not possible for you. Because that really isn't very possible for me, as somebody with anomalous retinal correspondence and, like, all the extras that I have and a lot of other people with strabismus, it really isn't possible for us to get a Flom cure.

I mean, maybe like, 2% of the time, but really, it's not likely that that's going to happen. And so, you know, we get turned away, like, no, it's not possible. We can't get a Flom cure. And so people are afraid of working with people with strabismus because that's not what they are going to get.

And so, Dr. Cook, so again, going back thinking of this Flom cure, there was. I'm gonna read a quote, another quote, because it's just too funny.

So going along with the Flom cure idea there in a. In a book, squint Training, it was published in 1936, and it was a doctor who was kind of doing vision therapy and, you know, squint training. Squint is another name for strabismus.

And they are like, yeah, you can totally get this Flom cure. Flom came later. But that same idea of, like, this perfect alignment and stereopsis and all the things. And this is what the person that was doing the work and writing, she said, “it is doubtful whether the end result is worth all the trouble.” And so they,This was a big thing that Dr. Cook talked about. He's like, so are they really worth all that trouble? These people with strabismus. And obviously he was being facetious, but that was kind of the idea. Like, yeah, it's a lot of work. And are they really worth all that trouble? Is it really worth all that trouble? And the person In 1936 in this book said, that's up to the patient to decide.

And so, which. It still is, but I think that that was a big focus. Is like, yeah, it is worth all that troubles. So, Dr. Cook spends, like, the first half of this research going into, like, what has happened historically.

So, after going through all that information, Dr. Cook kind of presented his idea of what would be considered a. What he calls a basic behavioral success for studies with. With patients with, you know, esotropia, exotropia, whatnot. So, the stereo fly. This is the first consideration. Stereo fly or better stereo.

So, the stereo fly is like a stereo test where, you know, you put on the. The fancy glasses, you open the book, they're supposed to be the fly, and it's supposed to look like it's floating off the page.

And so, this stereo test requires it's like, more like gross stereo or, like, peripheral stereo can be used to see that, like, I can see depth on a stereo fly really well. But if you give me the book where it's like, which dot is closest to you, or which animal is closest. I can't do those ones, or I can't do a Rand stereopsis test, but I can see the stereo fly.

So, it's just like a lower version of stereo. So that's one thing is the Stereo Flyer better. The other is eight prism diopters or less of deviation, whether that's up, down, side to side.

And that is on a COVID test. So that's where they, you know, you're in the doctor's office and they cover your eye with the paddle and then they like quickly switch between your eyes.

So, he's saying during that test you can't have more deviation. Usually that test is going to give you at your worst-case scenario that's showing the like. If you just are using both eyes, a lot of people can like straighten their eyes more.

But as soon as you break fusion using the cover test, things kind of fall apart. So, he's saying when things fall apart it has to be less than eight diopters of eye turn, which is not visible to anyone. Like cosmetically you look great. I have probably about eight diopters and my eyes look fine. Ish, you know, they're good enough. We're going to call it good. Let's see.

Yeah. Then he goes into some really technical stuff. But that's basically his idea, improved stereo less than eight diopters. He also adds in. He wants them to have an awareness of space.

So, like that it's. He calls like egocentric stereopsis. Is that what he calls it now? I'm like losing my words. But the idea is do you know where you are in space? Can you say see the space between things? If you've done my Mastering Peripheral course, that whole course and like seeing space opening your periphery, that's what he's talking about is being able to do that as part of his personal success with a strabismus patient.

Because that is going to change their depth perception more than being able to see which dot is pointing up. So anyways, that's kind of, I mean that was kind of a long answer to your question, but that was what he pretty much presented was this is what should be our new measure of success. And then he went into and this is how we do it and gave a lot of like clinical wisdom on how to approach to get that kind of a result.

Denise: Did he have percentages of how many people achieve that kind of success in his practice?

Melissa: Yeah, it was in the 80s for exotropia it was higher. It was I think 90 something. And I think for esotropia 86% success rate. But in the study, he divides it up, he did like, those are overall success rates. But then he also divided it into people who began with less than 15 diopters of it turn people that began with more than 15 diopters for both esotropia and exotropia.

So, he's really feels strongly that you shouldn't group esotropia and exotropia together because they are so different in the way they use their eyes. The way you approach, like, the whole thing is very different.

So, he doesn't. He's like, it's not right for surgeons to combine those in studies because the outcomes for exotropia are so much higher. And so then it skews you to think that the esotropia results are high too. And he's like, and it's just different. It's a very approach.

Denise: You could say, is there a different consideration if someone started out as an esotrope and then ended up exo because of surgery like you? Is that a whole different.

Melissa: Sorry, no, they still would if you started eso. You're eso. So, like, I came into the office with my eye turning out with 35 diopters of Exotropia, and. And I am treated like the way that everything is approached.

I'm treated as somebody with esotropia because that usually is going to be more likely to come with the anomalous correspondence. It's more likely to.

Like with exotropia, usually there's a lot more control. Like they can bring it in. They just don't. Like, it's just a very different set of eyeballs. So, yes, I've had the surgery and that does complicate things.

But ultimately you're who you started out as. Although I do have traits of both, which makes me a really exciting adventure in the, in the therapy room because I have. I have exo traits because I spent 30 years exotropia. But also like at the foundation, at my core, it's esotropia. Like, I. That's how it's a congenital esotropia. So, yeah, I mean, with. Once you start bringing surgery into mix into the mix, everyone. I think most people start getting treated as like the esotropia patient more once surgery gets involved. So, you have to be a little bit more delicate with esotropia.

Denise: I think it's not uncommon for esotropes to end up exo after surgery. I mean, I've seen it with a couple of my family members, even.

Melissa: So super common, so many people I get to talk to and very similar stories. They started as a baby, really eso. And then they were straight for a while after surgeries.

And then it goes exo as an adult and they're like, what is going on? I want to fix this. And then that's when they find us. Right?

Denise: Yes. Tell us a little more about Dr. Cook's approach and what is more revolutionary in what he presented at this event. Because I think this is going to blow a lot of doctors minds.

Melissa: Right.

Denise: As far as, oh, how are we really measuring this and what's reasonable to expect when we're treating patients like that.

Melissa: Right. And what do the patients want? That was a huge thing for him is what are these patients looking for? He's like, they want their eyes straight. They want to be able to drive at night. They want, you know, like they want to be able to function. They want to reach for a glass and pick it up without stumbling.

Like that is what patients are looking for. They don't care how they perform on a stereo test. Most of them, some of them like me. I'm like, yeah, I, I would like to pass the stereo test. It'd be real cool. But like overall it's mostly just like straight eyes. And this is one, one quote from,

from his research. He says peripheral fusion alone seems to be just as effective as the combination of peripheral and central in central fusion in maintaining aligned eyes. And so he talks a lot about how do we get those eyes to align, how do we do that? And, and if you, these listeners are patients, many of them probably more than half when they start vision therapy, they are started on exercises with using red and green glasses where we. One eye, you know, there's a deck of cards and one eye sees half the cards and the other eye sees half the cards.

And that's, that's working on central suppression and like, kind of like it's very central and, and that's a. Where a lot of doctors focus. And Dr. Cook is the opposite. He has found that peripheral fusion working on large stereo targets something like, you know, if you've been in the office, a vector gram, which is where each eye is seeing a different version of the same thing, like two circles. One eye sees circle on the left, one eye sees the circle on the.

And while wearing fancy glasses, whether they're red and green or polarized glasses, there's different ways of doing this. You see something that's actually floating off the screen or like a 3D movie would be that peripheral fusion more. It's like that, that fusion piece. And he has found that you working on peripheral fusion actually straightens the eyes faster.

And he has never had a patient get the irretractable diplopia that so many people are so afraid of doing vision therapy with strabismus because they say, nope, this patient has arc. That's anomalous retinal correspondence. They, you know, there's no way they're going to get central fusion. Don't even touch them. And he's like, no, it's fine. He actually says, this is great.

Melissa: So our approach of ignoring and working around ARC does not seem to harm functional curates and may well have overall led to straighter eyes and improved stereopsis and a greater percentage of patients.

So he's saying, like, he ignores arc. He doesn't even touch that central part. He works all on the periphery, works that fusion and then. And it's all about the space. He's not trying to get really big ranges. If you've done vision therapy and it's like, we want to converge until your eyes are touching your nose, and we want to diverge until you're like so far away.

That's not his focus at all. He just does a little bit. And then he's like, can you sense the space? Can you see the float? Can you be aware of that? And that's where his, his focus is, like in the actual vision therapy room. And that is what has helped change lives, right? It's all about how do we improve their actual interaction in their environment, not get them to pass the tests in the vision, like in the testing room. Right? Like, yeah, that, that makes it really easy to measure for a study.

Like, yes, this many people got this many numbers, right? Like, but when we talk about changing someone's life through vision therapy and giving somebody with strabismus that, that depth perception and those straighter eyes, that peripheral fusion is just as effective or more effective than working on all the really central fusion type targets. So, I don't know. Like, I found this class just so a lot of times I get in my head, I think, am I really a success with vision therapy because I don't have randot stereopsis?

And, you know, and we talk about this every time I go to the conference. I'm like, yes, I'm a success. Like, it's okay. Like, my life really did change. It's not in my head. I'm not making this up. I really can judge distances. I really can play pay tennis, play Tennis better and park the car better and my eyes are definitely more straight.

Right? All of these things that's like a real change that has happened for me that can't really be measured. It's really hard to measure what I have. Like, yes, I can see the stereo fly now and I never could see it before. But other than that, like, it's really hard to measure that success except for what I experience in my life. I guess you can measure the. I turn but like as far as like stereopsis and like seeing the space.

So anyways, that just, that's the part that I'm like crying in the conference because I just was like, yes, he gets it. And you look around and there's doctors that are like, I don't know about this guy.

I think I'm still going to start with anti-suppression. And I'm like, listen to him. He knows what he's talking about. So, I think that if I were still in vision therapy and I had heard this and my doctor wasn't doing it this way, I would print out this 45-page article and I would gift it to my optometrist and say, hey, I've hit a plateau doing it your way. What if we try it his way?

Are you up for it? Like, can I, can you experiment on me? I will be your experiment. And I want to try vision therapy in this new and different way where we start with like big stereo targets and then work towards the center.

Instead of starting in the center and working out and just say I'm, I'm up for it. Like, I think it's going to be amazing. I read this article. You should read this article. Let's do it. I don't know. I think you can do that and get. Because they're afraid to try something, you know, that's not what they were taught in school. That's not the way that has been done for a really long time. I can't say hundreds of years, decades of years.

That's how long it's been happening. Right? And so, they have to really kind of. It's a totally different path. And so I think giving a little encouragement is amazing to, I don't know, give them that confidence. Like, yeah, we can try it. Like that's, that was what happened with my therapy.

I came to my doctor and said, David Cook is amazing. I read his book, it's changing everything. And then my doctor read it and really like the approach. I mean he'd already been kind of doing that, trying to do that. Approach and I was the one that was resisting. And it finally like gave me the confidence to trust my doctor more and then gave him like, yes, I am going to do it this way and it is going to work.

And so I feel like that's when my therapy changed for the better because I started having that buy in that, that peripheral space. And that peripheral story was going to be the magic ticket.

Denise: So. And I. And the thing that occurred to me as you're describing this whole thing is would it be more relaxing to look out in the periphery than it is to try and fixate centrally? Right? I would think it would be. So it would make sense that.

Melissa: Oh, absolutely.

Denise: If we're trying to relax our eyes into normal vision, that that would do it. Where if we're focused close, that's, that's counterproductive.

Melissa: The same in life, right. When we are hyper focused on like one little detail and we shut out everything else, it's a really inefficient and it can create a lot of anxiety and panic. But when you are able to see the big picture, you can kind of relax into life even if you're during a hard part.

And that is like there's such a huge parallel, I would say like a hundred percent of patients. Okay, that's not true. But many, it's. They can't relax, they can't relax in life. And they can't relax their eyes. And I fall into this all the time. So, it's always like do meditation, breathing, like all of that.

That is like a huge part because that helps you open your periphery. Like it helps you be okay with taking in more at once and like not being afraid of that periphery. Like it is a real thing and, and it's not just like a. Oh yeah, I can see what's happening to the side. It's so much bigger than that. It's so much deeper than, than like being like, yeah, I can see this over here because a lot of times we're actually jumping our eyes from item to item. We're not actually taking it in all at once.

So anyways, I could talk about this all day, right? How many hours long is my peripheral course? Like 10 hours long, probably, because I can talk about it for a long time.

Denise: Do you think that the doctors that are resistant to his approach are doctors that are too inward focused? You know, they're focusing on small details. That's kind of the way that brains are working a little bit?

Melissa: Maybe? Yes. And also like the other way of Doing it like works on, on like 80% of cases. And they're like, we just want those 80% of cases.

Like, we don't want to deal with the 20% that need this like other newfangled approach. Like, it just is time consuming, and you have to teach a different paradigm. It's definitely more of an art than like follow these structured rules.

And so it's not that they're taking the easier way. Like I would do the same thing if I were in business. Like, I don't like zero judgment. But yeah, like you get a 10-year-old with convergence insufficiency, it's a much more straightforward approach than a 45-year-old with strabismus who's had surgeries. Right. Like, it's just, it's a different ball game. And so I think that's part of it is they're just like, oh, I just, like, we're just gonna try this. And so that's why as a patient, you get to advocate for yourself and be like, I know, I'm like a really hard case. Like, I'm gonna help you, I'm gonna work, I'm gonna do my part and learn as much as I can. Because I know I, like, I'm not following all the rules.

Like, I, my vision isn't working like a normal person's vision or even a normal broken vision. Like it's just kind of out there. And so you doing that work for yourself and like learning what you can learn and then sharing what you learn, like making it.

I don't know. Doctors are not open to that idea of a team approach, but most of them are like, I have found like, and we talked about this the first year, those doctors are so humble and so open and like, they are amazing. And so yes, they are maybe like really busy with the day-to-day operations and they're just kind of going with like, okay, we've been doing this for 30 years at this office.

We're just going to keep doing it that way. But if you were to come in and say, hey, I want to try this, I like feel very confident in saying they would be open to it. Like when you meet at the conferences. It is a very humble, humble group of people. These are not the ones that wanted to get rich quick with optometry. It is actually they make less money than a normal optometrist by a lot because they can't see patients every 10 minutes.

They get like one per hour. It's just really not like they're doing it because they want to change lives. And so if you bring it up and they're like, yes, and they slow down and like, yes says, I will help you.

Like, I. I think it could be a really positive thing. I. It's not like, I don't know. I would never do that with, like, a surgeon. They would not be open to that. Bless their hearts. We love our surgeons. Right. But they're not going to be on a team effort kind of mindset.

Denise: No, they probably aren't.

Melissa: And that's okay. You know what? They're really good at surgery, and I don't know anything about surgery, so it's okay.

Denise: Yeah. So when you went to Jules class, did she talk about the regulation part of what you do before you start into the games too? Like, she did when she came to my podcast. Did she?

Melissa: Yes, she did some. But there was actually a class, I think it was actually on the same day, like that morning, the whole class was about that, about regulating. So she referred to that class a few times. She's like, they need to be regulated. But she did talk about, like, a lot of ways. So her class, I went to two of them. One was about accommodation, and it was a workshop. So, it was like a four hour, like, interactive smaller group course. And then the other one was about charts. And, you know, in vision therapy, you're always looking at charts, not like medical charts, but like reading the letters off the chart or doing the arrows.

Charts. Right. There's a lot of different types of charts that are teaching different visual skills. And so she just. It was all about, like, how to make it more fun, how to incorporate this into the vision therapy room. And of course, like, it's all about regulation. I had. So, okay, so there was a class on mazes and all these fun things you can learn and do with mazes.

And you actually, like, make a maze on the floor out of, like, tape or Velcro. That's like level one. And I was working on this with a patient, and this person has struggled with rights and lefts forever.

Right? And they're afraid of them. Like, you start talking about rights and lefts and it's like, shut down. It's like they are not ready to learn. Right. It's exactly what Jules was talking about. And so, like, the way it goes is I'm in the maze and the patient's telling me whether I need to turn right or left to get through this maze. And so they're like, I don't know.

And so we're like, we're not even going to use the words right and left. I'm going to hold a red stick in my right hand or right hand and a green stick in my left hand. And you're just going to tell me whether I turn red or green. Do I turn red, or do I turn green? And still she was like, I don't know about this. So, then I'm like, okay, the floor is lava. The only way I can stay safe is if I'm in this maze. And so then she did a wrong turn. Right. She said left, and I'm supposed to go right. So I made a big yelling and screaming alive and, like, fell to the ground. And the girl's laughing. So she starts laughing and she's having fun.

And so then she starts thinking 10 times harder, trying to make me go out of the maze, right? So she's telling me the wrong turn, but she's telling me every turn wrong. So she's still. It's like, I don't care. We're still getting that body awareness of, like, lefts and rights. But, like all of a sudden, she's laughing and having fun, and she's way more engaged. So, like, Jules, thank you for, like, that whole idea of, like, emotional regulation.

Like, how do we teach the same concept, but in a way that that patient can have fun, and so their brain is just, like, fired up and ready to learn? So, I. Yeah, the way she teaches and does things, and it doesn't work for every personality. Not everyone wants to pretend to burn alive in lava when you're almost 40 years old. But that's fun. For me, I didn't. I'm all about that. So, you know, learning those techniques and those ideas, it's like, okay, it's not the activity.

It's what we're learning and teaching through that activity. So you can do it in a million different ways. And you go to this convention, and there's 500 ways to do version right. But it's like finding the one that resonates for the patient and can help them experience space. That's the goal. It's not a certain one. It's not VR or a 3D TV or a vector gram or red. And, like, every patient's a little bit different. And so, it's not about, like, the exact tool. There's not one tool that's going to be the magic ticket. And, you know, people that I talk to a lot, and I'm sure you, like, what's the eye exercise. Which one should I do? And it's like, I don't know, it's like it's the exercise that helps you experience vision in a new way, in a novel way.

As Dr. Cook would say, that it's going to teach your brain how to interact in your world with your new vision. And so that's why it's really great to go to a vision therapy office because they have all the tools and they can try different things and you can experience a lot and you know, have it be guided by somebody.

Denise: Right. Well, I remember each time that I've been there with you, there was always some great new machine in the hall where they're doing all the exhibits. Right. Was there something at this time also or not so much.

Melissa: I'm trying to think. I don't know if there was any. There was one that I was so curious about, but I never got the booths closed at 2 o' clock on Friday.

Denise: Oh no.

Melissa: And I didn't realize that usually they go until Saturday. And so there were several booths that I was planning on visiting and I wasn't able to go to. So, I was really sad about that. But there's one, somebody, not an optometrist, but they developed a screen, like a tablet that is really helpful for people who have screen sensitivity who've had a traumatic brain injury.

And that seemed really interesting to me. But the rest of them, like they're definitely like updates. Like you've got Amblioplay and you've got Vivid  Vision. Wasn't there Optics Trainer? These companies are making their products better, right?

They're adding games, they're adding features, they're making it more accessible, they're making the doctors can like so they're making their program so much better. But I didn't necessarily see any brand new like exciting tool that, that I hadn't seen before.

Yeah, I wish I really wanted that bed. Remember the bed from the first year that like it was a, like a sensory bed and it like shakes and there's like lights and sounds and it was awesome. I'm like, I really want to try that again.

Denise: And it wasn't there.

Melissa: But no, it was not there. I did try some. There were some people selling lights that make your wrinkles go away. And so I got told for like 20 minutes that I'm very wrinkly and I could really benefit. I wouldn't look near as old and ugly if I were to use their tools.

And it was funny because I, I went out to dinner with some other like, and there was, like, a vision therapist, social. Like, there was all these things. And so it was like the running joke because we all went to that booth and we're all like, well, I guess I'm old and hideous. Like, because that was, like, kind of the sales tactic was to tell you how that was funny. So I don't. None of us.

Denise: Spot must not have been the right time.

Melissa: I don't think it was the right tactic. It did make me laugh really hard, though. I. I teased her back. I'm like, you don't think I'm beautiful just as I am?

I'm aging gracefully. Like, this is my natural aging process. Don't I look great? And she's like, oh, you have a lot of wrinkles. Oh, my gosh.

Denise: So why was that product there? Was it helping vision as well, or was it just really for wrinkles?

Melissa: So I don't think they realized that vision therapy conference is different than a normal optometry conference. And so I just don't think they had the right crowd. So, I think they go to a lot of optometry conferences, and people will go to their optometrist. And the optometrist has this tool, and they, like, do go around. It's, like, very good for, like, tender skin, and it can, like, regenerate things. And. And so people who have, like, stuff going on with their eyelid and under their eye, like, there are optometrists, I think, more. So, you're going to see it, like, at a plastic surgeon type office or someone that's doing that. But optometrists will have it, too. And people will go to the office and either, like, buy one, so they can buy it in, like, a big pack and sell them, resell for, like, higher prices maybe, or they can, like, get the treatment done by the optometrist.

But I'm like, you kind of have the wrong crowd here. That's not what vision therapy is all about. Like, maybe some of the offices, but I probably. I'm guessing they didn't have a ton of sales. Maybe. Maybe people bought them for their personal use only, like, a thousand dollars.

Denise: Oh, well, that doesn't sound like a good investment to me.

Melissa: Now, I think it could be great for, like, if that's what your office is about. I bet it does help. I'm not doubting that it helps. I just, like, that's not my passion. And I think a lot of the people that were there, but I'm sure it's good for an office that does that kind of thing.

Denise: That's funny. Okay. I think that it's going to be valuable for people to understand that we can redefine what success is. I think that's such a great takeaway and made you feel more like a success case, right?

Melissa: Yes. I think a lot of us get caught up in am I going to have perfect alignment, am I going to have perfect stereo? And the answer is probably not. And that's okay. That doesn't mean that it won't change your life. That doesn't mean that it won't change the way you look, and you appear to other people. Right. We all, we both know the cosmetic piece is huge.

That is such a big part of it. And to pretend that it's not is just silly. Like, of course that's part of why you're going through all this work. And so just knowing that, knowing that you don't have to get to 10 out of 10 vision for it to change your life gives you a lot of comfort and just, like, hope. Like, okay, that's good because I read all this research, and it sounds like I'm not going to get there. And it's like, yeah, you're probably not, but six or seven is going to give you aligned eyes and great depth perception.

So take it and run like that. That's an amazing success and it will change your life.

Denise: That is the message. It will change your life and it's changed ours, right?

Melissa: Absolutely. Thanks.

Denise: Thank you for listening to the Healing Our Sight podcast.

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