See Differently from the Inside: Melissa Daniels on Becoming a Vision Therapist

 In this episode of Healing Our Sight, Denise reconnects with Melissa Daniels—vision therapist, educator, and former strabismus patient—to explore how stepping into the role of therapist changed the way she understands healing.

Melissa shares what she wishes she had known earlier in her own journey, how her perspective shifted once she began working with patients, and why the mindset we bring to vision therapy can make such a big difference.  You’ll hear them discuss:

• How becoming a vision therapist highlighted Melissa’s understanding of her own strabismus
• What she would do differently if she could restart her journey
• Mindsets and habits that support consistent progress in vision therapy
• Common beliefs or expectations that unintentionally slow down success

Whether you’re a parent navigating strabismus with your child, an adult working to improve your own vision, or a professional supporting patients, this conversation offers both hope and grounded insight into what real progress looks like.

Connect with Melissa:

 Website: https://strabismussolutions.com

YouTube: Strabismus to Stereopsis — https://www.youtube.com/@strabismustostereopsis

Click the link above to message me directly. It comes to me as FAN MAIL! How great is that? Just click on the place that says, "If you liked this episode CLICK HERE:"

Transcript

Denise: Welcome to the Healing Our Sight podcast. I'm your host, Denise Allen, and today I have my friend Melissa Daniels with me again. Welcome, Melissa.

Melissa: Thank you, Denise. It's always fun to be back.

Denise: It's great to have another chance to chat about what we're so passionate about.

Melissa: Right? Absolutely. It's my favorite thing to talk about.

Denise: Yes, me too. Tell us a little bit about where you are now. I think my regular listeners are going to know who you are and what you do and all of that. Your great website and your YouTube channel and all of the stuff. Right. But how do you feel today versus when you started?

Melissa: Well, I mean, it's been seven years, so seven years ago, I started my journey, and I was a patient for five years, and I still consider myself a patient. I'm. I. My vision is an ongoing project, but I also started working as a vision therapist about two and a half years ago. So, I don't know if, you know, listeners know that or not. It's not something I talk a ton about, but it is definitely very different. You know, I mean, there's still a lot of actually the same struggles. It just looks different. Right. Like, I still struggle with the same things that when I was a patient that I struggle with as a vision therapist. Working with patients, it's like, okay, this is just my personality and something that I have to work on overcoming forever.

Denise: Okay, well, what do you mean by that exactly?

Melissa: Well, you know, as a patient, I always struggled with wanting to rush things. I always was thinking about the money because vision therapy is expensive. And I thought, okay, I have to do this fast. Like, I have to do my exercises for two hours a day. In the appointments, I'd be very intense, like, trying to get to the next thing and. And just like, master. Master. Right. Like, because it was all money. Like, I just could see only in dollar signs and.

Denise: Okay.

Melissa: And that stress that I was putting on myself actually was very counterproductive to my progress. Right. And as a vision therapist, I find myself doing the same thing because I'm thinking of their dollar signs and how much they're spending. It's like I have to rush through. And that's, again, very counterproductive to good therapy. Right.

Denise: Yeah. I didn't even think about it that way. So that it's interesting that that's your motivation on both sides of it. I think that there are probably a lot of people who can relate to that.

Melissa: Oh, definitely. I mean, it's so funny because the doctor constantly is telling me, melissa, you are not. You are not Allowed to think about their finances. Don't think about it. You just have to pretend they're getting like, other. It, like, messes with your brain, and then you're not doing as good of a job. And I'm like, I know. So, it definitely, like, you know, I think probably part of the way I was raised and just like my. My whole thing, it. It just. To me, it's very funny. But now I've recognized it and I'm, you know, I figured it out as a patient, and then I was able to make a lot of progress, and then I started doing it again as a therapist, and now I kind of figured it out, and I'm not doing that as much anymore. So, it's. It's funny. It's like, wow, it's very parallel journey.

Denise: Okay.

Melissa: Yeah.

Denise: It points out the places where you still have work to do, I guess.

Melissa: Absolutely.

Denise: Yeah. And how has becoming a therapist changed your perspective on the whole healing process? Or has it? Maybe it hasn't. Maybe you still have the same perspective.

Melissa: It's definitely. I think I just see the bigger picture now. I think before I thought everyone would kind of fit into a box and, you know, this is the right way to do it for everyone. You know, there. There was a straightforward path, and that was the path I took. Right. And it's like, you need to do this step A, step B, step C. And as a therapist, I see such a variety of patients. Right. Most of my patients don't have strabismus. I mean, a few of them do, but we've got all sorts of different types of vision dysfunctions going on, whether it's from a traumatic brain injury or just a little kid who can't use their focusing system. Right. And then, of course, the strabismus, too. But even If I had 10 patients all with strabismus, the approach would be different for every single one. Right. Like, and I think that. That it just has opened my mind to realize, oh, we. There's not one cookie cutter way. Like, you have to basically get inside of that person's brain and figure out where it is right now and where we're trying to go. And, yeah, like, my experience, there's like, I tried a lot of different things, and so that's been really helpful because I have a lot of ideas to try, but the same things don't work with every person. And so, it's like very. A lot of trial and error with, you know, okay, let's try this program. Let's try this tool. Let's try these different things because it doesn't matter if they have the same diagnosis. It's the same stuff. Doesn't work every time.

Denise: Right. I have heard that from a few people. It's definitely not a one size fits all approach.

Melissa: Although now I have to go against what I just said. And there's also a thing where there are a thousand tools, and picking the right tool isn't necessarily the most important part. It's how you use the tool. So, you can get somebody like one of the greats that's like, amazing at vision therapy, and they. Their only tool is a brock string and, you know, a bullseye. I don't know, like, two really simple things. And they can do an entire therapy program effectively with just that one tool because they know how to speak to, like, the brain's understanding and how to approach it and how to use that tool in the right way. So, it's not so much the tool, but how you use it. And so, a lot of people will say, okay, well, what's the best tool for strabismus? And I'm like, I don't know. It depends on who's using it, because it depends on how it's being used. Like, you could use the best, an amazing tool in a really dumb way, and then it's not gonna be effective at all. Or you can use kind of a simple, boring tool, but, like, really in a genius way and get great results. So I don't know, it's just not as straightforward as I thought it was gonna be.

Denise: Okay. Yeah. And as a therapist, you probably thought, oh, I'm going to learn all the stuff, and then I'll know exactly what to do with each patient. Right, right.

Melissa: It was like, oh, yeah, I just have to learn all the exercises, and then I. I'll be taught the order, and then I'll just follow that and it'll always work. And that's just. I mean, yes, we have protocols and like, you know, try this first and second, third. And, you know, it does work in some ways, but there's just a lot more going around a different direction. Like, okay, well, we tried that, and then we're gonna try it a little differently. Like, there's just a lot of mini adjustments that are constantly happening. And, you know, a big thing I think about as a therapist is I kind of laugh at those times when I was trying to do the therapy on my own because I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, I have no idea. And it takes somebody from the outside looking in to really Figure out what. What needs to happen next. It's really hard to do that for yourself.

Denise: Yeah, definitely. And have you changed what you do at home in your own therapy based on what you've learned as a therapist yourself?

Melissa: I honestly don't do very much at home anymore, if I'm being totally honest. Like, I will a little bit. Usually it's just I'll, like, play on something at work. I definitely do. I guess I've put more of a focus on, like, some of the primitive reflex work that I ignored while I was in therapy. I think we've talked about this before, but that's something that I was like, yeah, that's weird. That's just for kids. And now I'm realizing more and more that that is probably a big part of why I haven't been able to, like, really get to the next level with my therapy. So, there's, you know, all those reflexes in your body and so, like, envision therapy. I don't know if you had to do this at your office, but you're doing, like, these floor exercises, right? You're working on, like, bio, getting both sides of your body working together, and you're working on the moral reflex or these different reflexes. And, yeah, I just kind of ignore that. And so I do try to actually do more of that now and then when I'm at work and I have a minute or whatever, I'm working with the patient, sometimes I'll throw on the glasses and do it with them. Okay. But I actually get too distracted, so I have to not. I have to resist that.

Denise: I've noticed that I don't do as much at home either. I mean, I got pretty great results anyway. But after I asked my doctor what my numbers were, I realized I really could improve my far distant 3D. And so, I'm working on that a little bit more. Thinking. At least thinking about it.

Melissa: Oh, yeah. And I think it's a good saying like, that we don't have to continuously do eye exercises every day. Right. Like that. My vision is pretty stable. I don't get any double vision. My depth is pretty good. I got that concussion about six months ago, and I'm getting almost feeling back to normal after that. It's not perfect. So again, I feel like the primitive reflexes and some really basic eye movements are what my brain need right now. And that's more related to the concussion than my strabismus. So.

Denise: Okay.

Melissa: I don't know. I think it's a good sign that I'm not having to work on it constantly. That's what we want.

Denise: Yeah, absolutely. I think the stability is so important. Yeah, for sure. Looking back, what do you wish that you would have done differently in your journey now that you have the experience of being a therapist?

Melissa: Oh, man. Part of me is, like, I had the exact journey I was supposed to have, right. But also, I could have made things go faster if I would just have listened to my doctor and just trusted that process and started in vision therapy sooner. I definitely, like, tried to do it on my own, and then I tried to go once a month and then every other week. Right. I wasn't all in on therapy because I still, in the back of my mind, thought, I don't think I need someone to help me with this, and it'll be cheaper and faster if I just. I can get the right programs. I'm a hard worker and I can get this on my own. And, you know, looking back, I realized, like, oh, my gosh. No, I needed someone to help me. I needed the right tools. I needed the right expertise. So, I wish, like, I think I could have cut off a lot of time if I had just gone all in and actually listened to him, because the things he was having me do were really important. And I was like, I don't think that's important. Like, I kind of thought, I know more than he does.

Denise: And.

Melissa: And so it's okay. Like, I had to learn, right? Like, that's just how my brain operates is. I have to, like, learn the hard way sometimes. But, you know, going back, that would have definitely sped up the process if I hadn't ignored. I always joke, like, I thought eye stretches were so dumb. So eye stretches, when you, like, look at an object and you follow it with your eyes. And I thought, obviously, I can do that. Like, this is not a problem for me. That's very easy. And so, I just would ignore that. Like, he would have me working on that every day. And, like, that was a home exercise for months. And I was like, I just didn't do that part. I would be like, oh, no, I'm gonna do my red and green glasses and do all those things. But I wouldn't do, like, the basic foundational. And finally, he, like, had a heart to heart. And he's like, your eyes jump. They don't move smoothly. And I'm like, yes, they do. He's like, no, they don't. So, I took a video and I saw that, and I was like, oh, my gosh, they do. And when I really, like, went all in on just those basic eye movements. Can I just move my eyes smoothly up and down and side to side and in circles? And then I started, like, trying to do it with actually with my eyes closed. And so, it was like an eye control and, like, feeling my muscles move in my head and doing that smoothly. I actually was able to do the 3D exercises so much better because I could. I had so much more awareness of, like, where my eyes were and what they were doing, and it. And that still kind of boggles my mind as to why that happens, but I see it with my patients all the time too. Like, those basic eye movements are actually so important. It's not just like a. Oh, do this. Like, do some jumping jacks. Right? Like, no, this is actually, like, so foundational, and. And you have to have that foundation. So, like, those are the two big things. Was just, you know, trusting him. And I guess they go together. But I would have definitely gone all in on those eye movements in the beginning because it just. They're so important.

Denise: And do you have patients that fight you on that, too, just like you did?

Melissa: I usually give them a really strong pep talk. You know, that's where my. experience comes in. And I. I just. Because I just say, I know you think this is stupid, and I know you think you can use your peripheral, and I know you think you can move your eyes, but just, will you just trust me? And sometimes I don't know if they do or don't, but I. I usually am pretty quick just because of. Of what I experienced. I'm pretty quick to take a video while we're sitting in the office and show them what is happening and then show them their eyes. And I don't know. I spend a lot of time talking about it because I. I know how.

Denise: I see the value. Yeah.

Melissa: And I just know how I felt as a patient. And it felt like a filler exercise. It just felt like, oh, yeah, just do that. You know, that's. That's a cute little. My dad. Nah, not for me. I don't know. But, yes, patients definitely want to just get to, like, the exciting exercises, you know?

Denise: Mm. Using all the tools and the computer programs and all lenses.

Melissa: Like, it just feels more like something to pay for when you've got, like, a fancy tool versus a pencil. Like, why am I paying somebody to have me look at a pencil? Like, it just doesn't feel like good value. And so, yeah, same with Luster, you know, wearing the red and green glasses and looking at a white sheet of paper. It's like very boring and feels very pointless and like, why am I paying for this? But so much value. Again, like these things that don't feel like they have value, but they really do.

Denise: So, it sounds like the foundational piece is just the trust part where you, you trust that the person that you're going to see who's helping you is really gonna tell you the right things to do.

Melissa: Right? Exactly. And, you know, just going, going with it. And maybe even if you don't understand why, just trusting that process. I love to ask a million questions personally to learn why, but sometimes I just don't listen well enough to get the answer.

Denise: Well, sometimes it's, it's an understanding thing too. They can tell you all the stuff, but unless you really have the background or the, I don't know, capacity to take it all in, there's just so much to take in.

Melissa: Right.

Denise: And then, understanding all of it at once is a challenge sometimes.

Melissa: That's so true. And so that's the trust, Right. Like, I can't possibly understand all of this, so I'm gonna have to trust somebody who has more experience and just listen to them.

Denise: Right? Yeah. So, what do you think the qualities are that predict success in vision therapy when you're working with the patients that you have?

Melissa: I would say working on your home exercises, it makes all the difference. Like, I, I have a, a little guy and I don't think he's ever missed doing his home exercises. He's like 11. And the progress. He has strabismus. The progress that I have seen with him is amazing. And it, it's just he. Every week he is reaching new levels and new. I mean, we, I'm able to push him so much further than I've ever been able to push another patient because he's so consistent. And so that is just that constant time for his brain to be learning. Right. I always think of it like, you know, your brain, maybe people who are in vision therapy for some reason or another, like the connection between the brain and the eyes is like a jungle is how I think of it. And, and we start out by like bushwhacking to get like from one area to the other. And then a trail starts to form. And then like, maybe it's like, oh, you know, you could take like a four-wheeler. Right. So, it's like really bumpy. And then someone comes through and. Right. And then becomes eventually like a big freeway.

Denise: Okay.

Melissa: But that's like the process. And so if you're working on that, if you're Taking that trail more and more and more. The more frequently that trail is taken, the faster that trail is built. And. And so when you're only coming, you know, you get people that come in once a week, and they maybe do their home exercises once a week or not at all. And you just don't see near the progress because it takes that, like, consistent effort, especially when it comes to strabismus and amblyopia. It just. You ha. If you're not doing home exercises, you're just not going to see that progress. That, to me, is the biggest predictor of success. It's not the exercise. I mean, it is, but most of the exercises are going to help. Right.

Denise: That's why you give them to them.

Melissa: But, like, even, like, I'm thinking of listeners who are going to a different office who maybe do a different type of exercise than we do at our office. Like, but it's that consistently, like, thinking about your vision, working with your vision, that's. That's what makes the success happen. And I feel like that's what makes it, like, lock in for a long period of time, you know, forever, versus, like, okay, we can kind of, like, pull out some gains while you're in the session, and you have a little bit of gain by the end of the session. And. And we're just like, very slowly building. But, man, when they start doing that home therapy, you can just see such a huge difference.

Denise: Yeah. Do you think that there's a place in the therapy where people just make a shift and then you see progress? Or it's just the mindset they come into it with.

Melissa: Oh, no, you. You'll see all the time, like, somebody will start and. And they're like, really gung-ho, and they're making progress, and then they just kind of stop. And then their progress slows down. And then you give them a pep talk and they start again, and all of a sudden their progress starts off again. And so, you see that, like, up and down. And so, as a therapist, my job is to point that out to them and say, I'm noticing you are making huge gains. Have you by chance been doing anything differently at home? And they're like, as a matter of fact, I have. And I'm like, fancy. See, like, wow, that's crazy. Imagine that. So, yes, like, lots of patients will have that turning point where they all of a sudden see that connection. And. And then they also start being more willing in office to, like, do some of the weirder things that, like working with Yolk Prism or some of these things that maybe aren't logically, like, what they would think they would need. Right? But they are more engaged and they're like, oh, when you say think about space and open your periphery, you, like, really mean it. I'm like, and like, so, like, once they start seeing that space, like, especially for someone with strabismus, once they start, like, experience how thinking about the space and periphery. You know, I talk about this all the time. I have my course, right? Like, it's something that's really important. I feel like once they. I find they were like in the middle of an exercise, and I'm like, okay, think about the distance between you and what you're looking at and. And that what's behind you or whatever I'm talking about in that specific thing. And all of a sudden they see the depth on whatever exercise. They're looking at it like, pops. And they. They all sudden see it, and they're like, oh, oh, my gosh, I see it. And I'm like, okay. And they're like, oh, yeah, it just happened. And I'm like, wait, but weren't you thinking about space? And so then if I can help them find that connection and they start. Start making the connection that when they think of their periphery, it helps them see depth, that can be a big turning point where they start pointing it out themselves. Like, oh, I need to open my periphery. Oh, I need to think about space. Like, they. I don't have to tell them anymore because they recognize, like, internally, like, oh, this is changing the way I see and the way I do my exercises.

Denise: That's awesome. Do you ever see people go the opposite direction where it's like, oh, I see it now. I'm scared. And I don't. And I'm not gonna open up to that. And then they just, like, shut down.

Melissa: Oh, all the time. So many times. It'll. They'll, like, have an exercise and I'll be like, okay. You know, I think a lot like the Eccentric circles or the Lifesaver cards where I'll show an example for people who are on. On video. But you've got, like, there's cards like this. They're fusion cards, and you basically have to either cross your eyes or relax your eyes and you can make like a third magic, magical picture in the middle. And so many times you're working and they can't see anything. They can't see anything. And they're looking and you're giving them all the tricks and blah, blah, blah, blah. And they'll See it? And then they hurry and put the card down and be like, I saw it. I'm like, wait, why did you put the card down? And they're like, I don't know. That was weird. Or like, you can just see their body. Like, you watch the body language, and you can see as soon as they start doing it, they, like, start getting kind of, like, uncomfortable and wiggly and like, hey, how you feeling? What. What are you feeling in your body right now? So, it definitely. You can watch, like, the body language. And some people, like, it can be really uncomfortable. Like, they're like, I didn't like that. That was too much. Or you show them a vector gram, like a 3D vector gram, where it floats towards them. And you see them physically, like, pull back and pull in. And they're like, it's very dis. Like, they don't like it. And so, for those people, we have to have a pep talk. So many pep talks. And vision therapy, you're like, hey, I'm going to show you something. And it might feel uncomfortable, and it's going to be in your space. Can you be okay with that? Can you sit in the discomfort? It's just like when bad things happen in life, right? Like, when you feel, like, scared or sad and you have to, like, feel your emotions. Like, same thing with the vision. Like, we're going to feel something, it's going to feel a little uncomfortable. Like, are you in? And they always say, yes, right? If they're like, yes, I am. And I'm like, okay, we're gonna just breathe and we're just gonna sit there and, like, let it be in your space. And they have to really. Like, there's like, a mental component they have to, like, really work through, and then eventually they get through that part. But, yeah, it can be really very uncomfortable sometimes. Especially that 3D. Yeah.

Denise: We don't always think about the emotional components of all of what's happening with our vision, though, I think for sure, a key aspect that we have to deal with if we're going to move into actually seeing the depth. Right, Right.

Melissa: You have to want to see it. Right. If you. You have to want the change, you have to be okay. Like, you have to accept that things are going to be different and it's going to be uncomfortable there in the middle. Like, it's. It's definitely a great metaphor for life. Right.

Denise: Well. And do you see it in your life, like, the fact that you've gone through this whole journey? I know for me, it's made me A different person.

Melissa: Absolutely.

Denise: And did you ever even think you'd be doing what you're doing right now?

Melissa: No, definitely not. I actually have a video, like my video going on YouTube on November 14th. It's all about my gratitude for my journey with strabismus and reasons why I'm so grateful and how it has changed my whole life. Because it has. Like, my life is. Doesn't look like it. I thought it would, and it. It's changed me, you know, physically. Like. Yeah, yeah, I can use my eyes, and they're straight and whatever. Right. Like, that's fine. But the bigger change is, like, there's something that changes when you face something really difficult and you stick it out and you work through it, and the parts where you want to quit and you're. It's emotional and tough, and then you just keep going and then you come out. It's like the butterfly at the other end. Right. Like, I mean, that's what changes you. And it's an amazing process. And man, like. But don't start if you don't want to be a different person at the end. Can't help it. Yeah.

Denise: Do you see that there any kind of parallels between binocular vision ability and how we are as people? I mean, we kind of talked about this a little bit, the fact that we've become different people, you know, and we see, like, a bigger, broader perspective and more depth and all of that in other parts of life. Right. Because we can see in 3D now, right? Yeah. Tell me a little bit about what your thoughts are on that.

Melissa: I think that you. It opened your mind. So, you know, we only could see in 2D, right. And. And we thought that's just how things are, that that's just what life is. And then you learn how to see in 3D. And so, you have that physical change. There's literally a physical change with how you see the world. And that opens your mind to think, maybe things aren't what I thought they were. Maybe I'm wrong about other things too. Maybe neuroplasticity is possible in other parts of my life. Maybe I can change my brain and I don't have to be, you know, like, all these things that maybe hold you back in other areas, emotional or physical, whatever it is. But recognizing, like, oh, I'm 35 years old and I changed something huge about my vision, like, what else is possible? So, I think it's opened my mind and to so many more possibilities and just understanding change is possible. And, I don't know, everything and my version of reality might not be reality. Like, you don't really know. Like, it just has kind of helped me realize, like, I know a lot less than I thought I did. And change is so possible in, in so many ways. And so, I think that just broadens your view of life because there's not as many restrictions in my mind. Like, oh, maybe people tell me something's impossible or something doesn't work or something's woo woo. I'm like, maybe, maybe not, but we'll see. I kind of just choose to believe in everything. And you know what? It's serving me pretty well in my life. And so, I don't know, I think vision therapy, like, that gave me like, something to hold on to. Like, no, it is possible to overcome things that people say are impossible.

Denise: Right.

Melissa: And now I guess that's so empowering. Are you kidding me? Like, it's so empowering. And, and it does. It changes your perspective on, on life in general.

Denise: Yeah, it has for me too. And I would have never dreamed that I would have this purpose, you know, in sharing what I've learned on such a broader scale too, you know?

Melissa: Right. I mean, I went to school to become a math teacher. That's what I have a degree in. Like, I never thought I would ever have a YouTube channel. Like, just kind of funny. Like, even thinking about it, like, saying it out loud sounds so silly to me. But like, it's, it is. So, for me, it's the most fulfilling thing in the world to be able to meet other people with your business and help them through their journeys. And it, yeah, it has given my life such a different purpose than I ever thought I would have. And if someone had told me this 20 years ago, I would have been like, I don't have a lazy eye. What are you talking about? It is, it was definitely not on the radar. Like, I am going to have a YouTube channel and a website. Like, I didn't even know the first thing about any. Like, it just was so not on my radar. But it has given my life so much purpose and direction, which, I mean, it's amazing. And it's not the same. You know, I say this in, in the video that I made, but it's not the same for everyone. Everyone with strabismus isn't going to be like, and now I will start a podcast or a YouTube channel. Right. Like, but it, it's going to change them in other ways in their life. That makes sense for them. Right. It's we, we all. It's that Change in your brain that opens up those possibilities. And who knows where it's going to take each person? Each person's going to take it and run in different direction, but it does open up that brain and open up those possibilities.

Denise: Absolutely awesome. Do you have any little tricks that you want to share with the listeners on how you stay motivated as. As a therapist, as a, you know, recovered strabismic person that people can kind of, I don't know, integrate into their own experience?

Melissa: I think the biggest thing for whether, you know, you can think about this physically or emotionally, but it's easier to give an example physically, a big thing is how are you going to integrate that into your actual life? Okay, I can do eye stretches. I can see the 3D pictures or. Right. I can do all these different tricks that I learn in vision therapy, but how am I actually applying that into how I drive, into how I play tennis and how I chop vegetables in my kitchen? And thinking about that, okay, how can I do this? That's going to be more powerful than any home exercise program, is actually integrating it into how you live life. That's what makes it stick, right? That's why I don't have to do home exercise. I don't just sit and do eye exercises because I'm doing exercises all the time. When I'm driving, I'm thinking about my periphery. When I'm doing, you know, I. I'm looking for different things. Like, it's just part of my way of life, and that keeps my eyes consistently working together, and that's why I don't have to do home exercises. That's. That's the biggest thing. So, figure that out. How do I integrate this into what I'm doing? And also, like, with your brain, like, one of the biggest things is you have to sit in the discomfort. Right? You have to be willing for things to not feel comfortable for a while before you get to the other end of that vision therapy. Right? Things are. It's not going to be a straight path, and so just be okay. Like, hey, it's not going to be easy the whole time, and I can actually be uncomfortable and it doesn't kill me. I can actually feel some anxiety and feel pressure and feel nervous and feel annoyed. Like, all those things, I can feel it all, and it's totally fine. It's not. It's not harming me. It's not harming anyone else. Like, we're gonna do discomfort for a little while, and just being willing to sit with that makes a huge difference.

Denise: I love It. I've. I've noticed that too. And. And sometimes I. My eyes get just tense and I think, okay, why am I feeling like this? You know? And then I'll be like, okay, just relax outward. You know, I just expand in the periphery. Relax my eyes. Or I'll palm, you know? Yes. And it just makes a big difference.

Melissa: Right. And even sitting there, when your eyes feel tense and being like, huh, this is what tense eyes feel like. What is that? Like, where do I feel it? Do I feel it, like, below or above? Like, really, like, explore. Like when people have double vision. Like, oh, I'm having double vision. And like the. There's like this instinct of. To fix it right away.

Denise: Yeah.

Melissa: And it's like intense and like, hurry, hurry and fix it. And. And I. I do the. It's the opposite. Huh. Double vision. That's interesting. How far apart are they? Are they both the same clarity? Like, I just start, like, exploring it and then it goes away and I can't study it anymore because I relaxed.

Denise: Ah, yeah, right.

Melissa: You start relaxing and you're like, wait a second, what happened? My eyes don't feel tense anymore. I was trying to feel the tense and it's not right. Like, that's what happens. But if you just like, sit in it. Right. You just allow it and be like, oh, what does that feel like? Okay, that's weird.

Denise: Yeah.

Melissa: Things sometimes since we're here for it, I'm here for the ride.

Denise: Yeah. And it's. And it's the awareness and then using the tools that we've learned.

Melissa: Absolutely.

Denise: I think that's very key. Awesome. I love it. Well, I think we're going to need to wrap things up because you're a busy woman. Do you want to share your links for your website and your YouTube channel for the listeners that maybe are new and haven't become familiar with you yet?

Melissa: Oh, sure. You can find me. If you like video, you can go to YouTube. And my channel is called Strabismus to Stereopsis. And I also have a website. If you go over to learn.strabismussolutions.com. i have a lot of resources over there. Got the Mastering Peripheral course. You can sign up for zoom calls you can take, have a quiz. It's really fun. It's free. Just go take it. And it kind of takes you through a little ride on, like, where your vision is at and then gives you some recommendations for what next steps could be. So that's kind of a fun little quiz. So, yeah, if you want more resources, I'm sure Denise will put them in the description. The show notes is what they're called on podcasts.

Denise: They will all be in the show notes. Yes, absolutely.

Melissa: Great.

Denise: Thank you so much for sharing all that with us today. Melissa.

Melissa: Of course. Thank you for having me on. It's always so fun to chat.

Denise: We'll have to make it a regular thing maybe.

Melissa: Okay. I would love that. Be so fun.

Denise: Thank you for listening to the Healing Our Sight podcast. I'd love to hear from you. Please share and also join our Facebook community at Healing our site to leave suggestions or comments. Have a great day.