Revenue Enablement Society - Stories From The Trenches

Ep. 53 - Alli Rizacos - Conquering Imposter Syndrome

May 16, 2023 Sales Enablement Society
Revenue Enablement Society - Stories From The Trenches
Ep. 53 - Alli Rizacos - Conquering Imposter Syndrome
Show Notes Transcript

Have you ever doubted your abilities and felt like a fraud, despite being very competent? Have you tried to help a friend dealing with feelings of inadequacy? If so you've likely experienced Imposter Syndrome which causes people to feel anxious and inadequate and affects their mental well-being. Learning to overcome it is a critical skill for sustained mental health.

For this special Mental Health Month episode professional Imposter Syndrome Coach Alli Rizacos joins us to share insights into Imposter Syndrome and techniques that anyone can use to help conquer it. Listen in and learn about:

πŸ‘‰ The root causes of Imposter Syndrome
πŸ‘‰ Authenticity vs. Attachment
πŸ‘‰ How to upgrade your personal "operating system"
πŸ‘‰ Moving from self-criticism to building your inner leader

Alli had a 15 year career in sales at companies like Salesforce before leaving the corporate world in 2021 to start her own coaching business as an Imposter Syndrome Coach. She works with revenue leaders to overcome their imposter syndrome and upgrade their mental operating system so that their minds are working for them and not against them. 

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[Paul Butterfield]:

Stories from the Trenches, Ali Razakos. Oh, by the way, Ali, we are not recording the video. We're just doing audio. Hello, welcome back to another episode of the Sales Enablement Society podcast, Stories from the Trenches. The For Us, Buy Us podcast, where we bring together enablement leaders from all over the world. We talk about the things that we're dealing with on a common basis and innovative ways that people are solving for it. We also love to sometimes talk about things that didn't go so well because there's even more learning a lot of times in those situations. Today we have a little bit different guest. I'd like to first of all welcome Ali Razakos. Thank you for joining us, Ali.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Thank you.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Ali has, and she's gonna share more about this, a background in sales and in sales enablement, but her work now is as an imposter syndrome coach for high achievers in tech. That's

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yes.

[Paul Butterfield]:

a hot topic right now, not just in the enablement community. So we're really excited to have you on, Ali, to talk about something that's frankly pretty important to a lot of people. But before we

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

get into it, maybe share a little bit about yourself so everybody can get to know you.

[Alli Rizacos]:

For sure. Yeah. Thanks for having me. So yeah, as you mentioned, I have a background in sales and sales enablement. So I spent my whole career in sales, one of those people who just kind of found themselves there. And I found myself at Salesforce for eight of those years and then left Salesforce and right before the pandemic, January 2020, and joined a smaller company. as the head of revenue enablement. And that was kind of my final role in the corporate world before I left and started to be a coach. But that role was pivotal for me because it came with so much imposter syndrome and it was so glaringly obvious, at least to me,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

how impactful it was on myself, like my wellbeing and my mental health, but then also just on my performance as well. And so I am so grateful for that experience and being in sales enablement to have really kind of shown me the perils of imposter syndrome. I mean, I felt it so many other times in my career, but being in a role I had never had before in

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

a smaller company I didn't know, and in the middle of the pandemic,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Right,

[Alli Rizacos]:

and I'm

[Paul Butterfield]:

perfect

[Alli Rizacos]:

trying

[Paul Butterfield]:

store.

[Alli Rizacos]:

to build a function.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah, I'm trying to put the function that never existed before. It was just like, oh my God, just, you know, an atomic bomb of imposter syndrome for me.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, this is, this is going to be, um, this is gonna be a really good episode before we get into it though. Um, nobody gets out without the Jimmy Kimmel cow, Jimmy Kimmel challenge. All right. So you're ready?

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yes.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Uh, Kimmel retires through your amazing connections. You were offered his show. Uh, you can have anybody you want on as your first guest. So who's going to be on the couch and why

[Alli Rizacos]:

So I would be remiss to not say Oprah because she's been my girl for forever. And I had this... I still have it. I have this like cue card where I wrote down my like four big life goals. And this was, I don't know, less than 10 years, somewhere between 10 and six years ago or something like that. And... Three of them I've already achieved and the last one was to be interviewed by Oprah. So if, you know, a twist of fate had it that I got to interview Oprah, same thing.

[Paul Butterfield]:

It still counts. Okay. All

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah,

[Paul Butterfield]:

right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

still counts. So I would be remiss to say Oprah, but I also kind of feel like it's a bit like a Vakapo because, you know, she's so known. So if I get to have one caveat answer, I would also say Gabor Mate. who is an author and physician who I'm obsessed with at the moment. And he really focuses on trauma in our society and how his newest book is called The Myth of Normal, right? And we

[Paul Butterfield]:

and

[Alli Rizacos]:

all wanna be normal, but how that is completely a myth. And I would just love to bring him to the masses. I mean, he's already quite famous, but what he has to say, we all need to know. So that would be my kind of adjacent.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay. I just took a note on that because I'm an avid reader. In fact, I'm a parallel reader. I'll normally have two or three books going on at a time.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

And I'm sure ADHD has nothing to do with that either,

[Alli Rizacos]:

I was just

[Paul Butterfield]:

right?

[Alli Rizacos]:

just eating sweet.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah. So for those that are listening, we're prepping for the show. We were talking about, and in fact, I'll share in a second, we were talking about imposter syndrome that I've dealt with and the fact that I do have ADHD and that is kind of an interesting exasperating factor.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Anyway, but I wrote it down because that sounds like an amazing book. So thank you for sharing

[Alli Rizacos]:

So,

[Paul Butterfield]:

that recommendation.

[Alli Rizacos]:

fantastic.

[Paul Butterfield]:

So to bring everybody into the loop what you and I have been talking about, just with my personal experience with imposter syndrome, I, like you, came from the sales world into enablement. I've been in the workforce longer than you have, so I had more time in the job. I've led sales teams for Microsoft. One of my teams there, for example, had a $430-some-dollar, million-dollar quota. I led sales teams at Intuit, HP, etc. I knew the sales world. When I was at a company called InContact, which was a contact center as a service company, I was asked to leave my job as a director over the Eastern AEs and go figure out how to build an employment. So I went from Friday being a sales director to Monday being a sales name with director. So a little bit different path. And one of my first things, the directives from my EVP of sales was to take the methodology that I'd learned as a Microsoft leader, that I'd use it into it and go and get certified in customizing it for our business, teaching it, implementing it, driving it, option, all of that, which is a different level than just using it in the field as a, as a sales leader. Um,

[Alli Rizacos]:

Sure.

[Paul Butterfield]:

I went and I did that. I worked very hard at it and I actually really enjoy teaching. So that wasn't the issue, but Nonetheless, even with years of experience in the field with it, even with the, and I even had one of the co-founders helping me prepare. Right. So, I mean, everything was aligned, but those last couple of weeks before my first workshop, and these were three and a half day workshops. So they were, remember we used to all get together for like multi-day

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

training. Right. So, um, those last couple of weeks leading up to it though, I was being affected physically. I wasn't sleeping well.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Mm.

[Paul Butterfield]:

I was just, just kept thinking. that I was going to get up there, I was going to forget the material, which I've never done, but I was just convinced it was going to happen. People were going to see through me and it was going to turn into a game of stump the chump and I wasn't going to be able to answer their questions, all kinds of things, none of which actually came true. Yeah, but for about two weeks, I wasn't sleeping well and just headaches and that kind of thing. So that's me sharing my experience, would love to know. Is that common? And let's just talk about in general what you're seeing when you work with your clients.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah, so yeah, thank you for sharing that. And just to kind of like analyze that story a little bit to give us some, a jumping off point is, you know, all facts and figures point to the fact that you absolutely had the experience and the training to deliver this, you know, these workshops with, you know, at a high quality, right? And so, you know, so then it's not about the facts and figures, but that's often where we go. We're like, well, I don't understand why I feel this way because, you know, all of these things that I have and I shouldn't feel this way. Which means that it's not coming from a kind of facts and figures place. It's coming from a deeper place, right? So an emotional level and probably a memory, either conscious or subconscious,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

that is being triggered in this moment. Because what I was hearing is like you were trying to avoid. feeling, you know, rejection, feeling stupid, feeling

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

inadequate, looking or feeling embarrassed, right? And those are all super uncomfortable feelings.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And our brain will try to prevent us from having to feel that way because that is programming or like that, yeah, that was programmed in us as children. We all had those times as children because yeah, we just, you know. we do say stupid things and then someone laughs. We don't understand, we misinterpret it or not. So we have these kind of scary emotions that are kind of hardwired in us that now in our adult brains we try to avoid, right? And what's behind all of that is a belief. And I wanna check in with you, which typically the belief is that I'm not enough.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

So is that what you were feeling at the time?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah. Yeah. Again, despite all kinds of evidence to the contrary, that's

[Alli Rizacos]:

The

[Paul Butterfield]:

exactly

[Alli Rizacos]:

contract.

[Paul Butterfield]:

what I was feeling. And, and,

[Alli Rizacos]:

Right.

[Paul Butterfield]:

yep.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Exactly, right? And so, you know, in my experience, you know, myself, my own

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

experience, but now, and I was a leader for so many of the years that I was at Salesforce. So, you know,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

I don't know how many people I've managed, 200 at this point, right? And now I have clients and I, you know, I have hundreds of those. And so all this markets research that I've done, I don't think I've met one person that hasn't felt that they're not good enough, you know, like everyone has. of inner belief. So it begs the question though, like is it sales? The sales environment that's making us feel not enough, right? Or is there some kind of universality or some deeper something going on that we feel not enough and thus we were then attracted to the sales world because it affirms what we already believe about ourselves, right? So a bit of like a chicken and an egg The thing about beliefs is that whatever we believe, we will find evidence to support that belief, right? Because we don't wanna make ourselves crazy. Like we don't wanna, you know, I doubt that we're crazy. So whatever we believe, we'll just go find evidence that it's true because then we'll feel sane and okay and safe, right? So I, you know, I am fascinated with the sales environment, right? You know, and sales enablement is in that environment because you're governed by the same rules, right? because

[Paul Butterfield]:

often reporting

[Alli Rizacos]:

of,

[Paul Butterfield]:

to sales,

[Alli Rizacos]:

of course,

[Paul Butterfield]:

even.

[Alli Rizacos]:

that was

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah,

[Alli Rizacos]:

me, I reported

[Paul Butterfield]:

right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

the sales.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah, I always have to, yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah, I think that's how it should be. But anyway, it's so fascinating because, you know, it attracts the people that feel not enough, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Because we then now have this opportunity, especially in sales, right? Where it's like, you know, if we take sales out of it for a second, how can we prove that we're enough, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

I'll ask you that. How can you prove that you're enough?

[Paul Butterfield]:

hit quota overachieve. That's,

[Alli Rizacos]:

Right.

[Paul Butterfield]:

and it's pretty binary. You either do or you don't. It doesn't really matter, you know, what was the old Yoda thing? You know, do not try, do or do not. And then sales,

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

that's kind of what it is. Nobody really cares how hard you tried. You either hit your number or you don't hit your number.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Exactly. It's very binary and binary is attractive because it's either yes or it's no. There's no in between, right? So it's like it

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

feels factual. So if I can

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

do it then I'm enough and if I don't do it then I'm not enough, right? So

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

let me just fucking do it and then I'll be enough, right? And especially in sales, too It's like there's status that comes with it, right? And there's money

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

that comes with

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

and there's power that comes with it, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Who do we believe in the world is enough? people with money, people with power, people that have status, right? So sales is like this super attractive world for people that don't feel enough because it feels like an easy, you know, in quotation marks, this easy place to get the affirmation and validation that you might be, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

It's fair.

[Alli Rizacos]:

But like you said, it is binary. So the problem is, is there's only ever one winner really, you know?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

There's not room for everyone to be the best. There's only room for one person to be the best. Because of that, it feeds that inner belief in us of never feeling enough. It's a vicious cycle to be in sales and to not feel enough because one is ever enough. How do we define enoughness?

[Paul Butterfield]:

In an enablement, it seems like we could have a further complicator because we have, you know, when sales are going really well and the team's crushing it, we rarely

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yep.

[Paul Butterfield]:

get credit for that, right? Because that's all them. But when they're not doing well, often it's a due to a lack of training, right? And then everybody's looking back at us. So,

[Alli Rizacos]:

Almost

[Paul Butterfield]:

so

[Alli Rizacos]:

made

[Paul Butterfield]:

there's

[Alli Rizacos]:

it.

[Paul Butterfield]:

just that extra element. We don't have that direct control over the success of the sales org that we have when we're salespeople. So.

[Alli Rizacos]:

I truly think, not to use a dramatic word here, but I truly think sales is quite traumatizing in itself, right? Because

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

it is so binary, it's like either

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

you are or you're not, like

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

ship in or ship out, right? But sales enablement is so elusive. You never know if you're doing well. And it's just 10 times more traumatizing in

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay,

[Alli Rizacos]:

that sense.

[Paul Butterfield]:

yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Because you can never feel good, really.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

is either they're doing well and it's not because of you, or they're not doing well and it's because of you. So when am I supposed to feel good?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah, yeah, right, right, exactly. Okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah. Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

So how do we, I don't know if upgrade's the right word, but what do we do about it? How do we upgrade our own operating system?

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah, yeah, and you know, it's a good word to say operating system, right? Because we

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

need to think about how did we get the current one that we have, right? So that always leads us back to childhood,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

which is exactly where we got the belief around not being enough. So, you know, as we have some fundamental needs as humans and as kids, as children, there's kind of two big ones that... are in opposition to each other. And those needs are the need for authenticity and the need for attachment. And when I say authenticity, what I mean by authenticity is the need to be able to fully express how your feelings and what's coming up for you, right? So cry when I'm upset and angry or I'm hurt or laugh or yell, whatever it is, whatever is coming up in me, I want to be able to express that. right? The other side of it, the other need is the attachment, right? I think we know as humans, like we are social animals, we literally will die without the parent or an adult around who are literally babies, right? So that need is very much, very much kind of outweighs the need for authenticity as children because... given an opportunity to either be authentically ourselves and be able to express ourselves or get the attachment from mom and dad, I'm gonna pick attachment, right? But what that does is when I'm, you know, let's say throwing a tantrum and my parent is like doing what they've probably learned from parenting books, which is like, sometimes you ignore them or, you know, you tell them, you know, to calm down, basically stop expressing what

[Paul Butterfield]:

Right,

[Alli Rizacos]:

your

[Paul Butterfield]:

time

[Alli Rizacos]:

authentic

[Paul Butterfield]:

out. Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

feelings are.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And so then what the child develops is this understanding that, oh, like, it's not okay for me to be authentic, to be

[Paul Butterfield]:

Interesting.

[Alli Rizacos]:

myself. I need to now, like, because I'm not good enough, right? If mommy and daddy aren't liking this, then it must be I'm deficient or something's wrong with me. So in order to keep my attachment to mommy and daddy, let me be what they will praise me for, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And what does that become when we're kids? You know, like... I was a dancer, right? So if I was good at dance or, you know, good grades in schools, like the big one, right? Like

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

being valuable in some

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

way, right? Being productive

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

in some

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

way.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yep. Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And when we're not, we then believe we're not enough, right? So that's originally kind of where where it comes from. And then we take that and that becomes our operating system. Right. So I'm not enough unless I am being. valuable or productive or, you know, smiling and being happy for everyone. Like whatever

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

we encountered as children, right, whatever the environment was as children, were not valuable unless for that, right? And so then we bring that into adulthood and that is, you know, we can see the parallel now. with sales, right? Like, oh, maybe mommy and daddy will love me if I'm really good at my sales job and make lots of money and get promoted, right? Like maybe they'll actually finally love me, right? Because we all develop this kind of belief that if we're not enough, then we must not be lovable, right? And then we go out as adults into the world trying to prove how enough we are so that we can finally get the love that we never truly felt that we got, right? Because we had to be inauthentic to get that love.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And so, your question is like, what do we do about it and how do we start upgrading our operating system? Well, one is like getting aware of what it currently is, which is what I just described, right? That's pretty much everyone in this world,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah,

[Alli Rizacos]:

right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

No, like, of course, listen, we all, many of us had loving parents and, quote unquote, normal childhoods, no big traumas, right? And sometimes that's almost like worse because then you don't feel justified to have

[Paul Butterfield]:

Oh, it's like, what's my problem? I had a great

[Alli Rizacos]:

exactly.

[Paul Butterfield]:

childhood.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Right.

[Paul Butterfield]:

I had a privileged childhood. What, you know, what's my, yeah. That makes sense.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah, I want to want

[Paul Butterfield]:

That makes

[Alli Rizacos]:

to have

[Paul Butterfield]:

sense.

[Alli Rizacos]:

problems, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

But but it's the problem is like these this operating system was created subconsciously like not in your working memory. Like this was created like when you were eight months old and you know, one and a half like you're not remembering these things. But As a child, your brain is not fully developed. So you can't have the capacity, the cognitive capacity to say, oh, mommy and daddy must just be stressed today. They probably had a big meeting at work or something didn't go their way. That's why mommy's not really paying attention to me right now, right? You think, well, I must be.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Everything's internalized.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah,

[Alli Rizacos]:

it must be me.

[Paul Butterfield]:

yeah, yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

I obviously, I'm not enough. That's why mommy doesn't care about me, right? So of course your mom cared about you, of course, right? but we couldn't interpret it that way, right? Even if we had normal, loving, beautiful parents, you can still have this, I'm not good enough belief, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah, because even beautiful, loving parents are human. They

[Alli Rizacos]:

Oh!

[Paul Butterfield]:

have their ups and downs, they have their flaws, they have their biases.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Of course,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

right? Their sort fuses, their stress, right? You know, let's come back to your example for a second, right? During that time when you were, you know, to deliver these workshops and you weren't sleeping, did you have kids at that time? Right.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm. Edit.

[Alli Rizacos]:

So, you know, were you maybe a little bit less, you know, attentive to them because you were so in your own mind and so

[Paul Butterfield]:

Probably.

[Alli Rizacos]:

caught up in your own stuff, right? Like probably.

[Paul Butterfield]:

I'm just gonna say yes. I don't remember, but knowing how I was feeling, I'm gonna just say yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And like, and you weren't a bad dad, you're not a bad

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

parent, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

But you, it's just life, you know,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

like life's happening, right? The problem to your point is like, kids personalize everything. That's the way that we, we understand the world is to personalize it. Right. So, okay. So one is like, let's realize that that's the operating

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay,

[Alli Rizacos]:

system.

[Paul Butterfield]:

alright.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Now it's like, okay, well, what is the operating system that I, that would be beneficial to me? Like, what do I want to be able to feel about myself? Well, first and foremost, I think we all want to feel that we already are good enough, right? Like, if we believed that, how would we act differently, right? And what different behaviors would we, you know, create in our life that would then lead to different outcomes and different results, right? When you look at... most behaviors in the world, you can kind of tie it back to, oh, they don't think they're good enough. That's why they're like trying to make all this money or trying, you know, whatever it might be. Like it's, it usually comes back to that, right? So if the, so then what is the belief? So, you know, I am enough. And that really starts with, you know, if you, if we could just change our beliefs, we would do it immediately. So sometimes we need to reverse

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

engineer it.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

So... why don't we show ourselves that we are enough in the way that we treat ourselves? Right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

So you know you and I were talking before this how we all love to be our own worst critic and almost take it as like a point of pride. It's

[Paul Butterfield]:

Right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

like it's the same

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

pride that we have around being busy.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Right. Oh, that's another. Yeah, you're right. I'm so busy. I don't get any personal life. Look at me. Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah. Another

[Alli Rizacos]:

and you're just,

[Paul Butterfield]:

topic.

[Alli Rizacos]:

and I'm like,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

oh my god, like,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

poor you, what do you mean? Right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And so my clients will say that to me all the time. Oh, no, no, I'm my own worst critic. And I'm like, I don't know why you're kind of happy about it, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah,

[Alli Rizacos]:

Like,

[Paul Butterfield]:

right, right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

because, first of all, let me ask everyone this, has that strategy worked?

[Paul Butterfield]:

No, I mean, just speaking for myself, no. And, and as I reflect on it, I think it maybe comes from a place of you can't or don't need to criticize me because I've already identified those

[Alli Rizacos]:

defense.

[Paul Butterfield]:

things on my own.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Thank you very much.

[Alli Rizacos]:

yeah,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

yeah, yeah, I got it. I'm covered. Yeah, you're not going to point anything out that I already have it nitpicked at, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

So it's a defense against not wanting to seem ignorant or incompetent or inadequate in some

[Paul Butterfield]:

Thanks for watching!

[Alli Rizacos]:

way, right? But why would we need to defend ourselves against that if we don't actually believe that about ourselves?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Right? So it always comes back to the belief. So if we could just change our beliefs, we would. We would just stop being our own worst critic. So one, it doesn't really work, because in the sense too is, yes, it might help you achieve a certain thing or hit a certain deadline, cool, right. But what I'm assuming we all kind of want in this world is some definition of fulfillment, whatever that means, to be

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

happy.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And what my clients mostly say is like, just mental peace.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Like to have less like chaos in my mind of like my mind beating myself up or like second guessing everything or comparing myself to everyone or

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

thinking that people are thinking or judging me. Like that is so much noise,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

right? That is our own creation, right? We're, it's not, we're not getting it from the world. We're creating it in ourselves. And so does being your own worst critic lead you to more mental peace?

[Paul Butterfield]:

You know, I learned a lesson from a golf pro, but I think it still applies here. And that is, you know, I would worry about looking stupid on the golf course. And I remember was working with a pro once as in a teaching environment, and he said, trust me, everyone else on the course is obsessed about their own games, their

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

own poor shots

[Alli Rizacos]:

So that's it

[Paul Butterfield]:

and looking

[Alli Rizacos]:

for

[Paul Butterfield]:

stupid.

[Alli Rizacos]:

the other side. Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

They are not

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

looking at you, right? And I think there's probably application for that in life

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah,

[Paul Butterfield]:

in general, yes?

[Alli Rizacos]:

of course, of course,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

right? Yeah, I love how, you know, he's like, trust me because I literally talk to every single one of these people here.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah,

[Alli Rizacos]:

Like,

[Paul Butterfield]:

yeah, great.

[Alli Rizacos]:

they're all not paying attention to you because there's so much paying attention to ourselves, right? Yeah, we have this like belief that somehow if we criticize ourselves, that it will create a good result, right? But... If being our own worst critic is not creating more mental peace, well then it's not the strategy, you know, it's not the solution. So something that I help clients do, which is kind of reverse engineering it, is like start to treat yourself, every

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

aspect of yourself, your mind, your body, you know, your health, as if you already knew that you were enough and that you mattered, right? So, you know, you mentioned that... because you were beating yourself up, then you couldn't sleep. And you didn't elaborate, but I'm sure that also resulted in probably like, eating poorly or like not leaving the house or not getting some movement in or just poor decision-making about yourself, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah, because

[Alli Rizacos]:

Because

[Paul Butterfield]:

I was

[Alli Rizacos]:

you

[Paul Butterfield]:

obsessed

[Alli Rizacos]:

have to be

[Paul Butterfield]:

for

[Alli Rizacos]:

obsessed.

[Paul Butterfield]:

a short period of time. Yeah, right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Exactly, yeah. And so then we let ourselves go, right? We deprioritize ourselves to prioritize the obsession, right? And so when you deprioritize yourself, you are internally and intrinsically saying that you don't matter. and if you don't matter,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

then why would you be enough? So if we start just treating our body, our health, our mind as if it mattered,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

our mind will start realizing, oh wow, you matter, you know, you're enough,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

So one of the biggest like game changers of my life has been that, like the actual physical actions of showing myself every day that I matter, right? Because there's a whole slew of decisions I could make that show myself I don't matter,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

But now I have a belief that I know I'm enough and I matter, so it's now like I don't have to think about these decisions, but in the beginning, it was an act of like, okay, if I cared about myself and I knew I mattered and I knew I was enough, what would I do today, right? And I'm like, okay, I'll make a salad. I'll go for a walk. I'll go to the gym. Like I'll call a friend. You know, like that's what I would do. What would I do if I thought I was a piece of crap and didn't matter? Like, well, I'd probably eat a burrito and like sit on the couch and watch Netflix and you know, feel

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

bad about myself, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

So when you do those things, you're only feeding that critic inside of you, right? When you make decisions that are not in favor of you, right? Like not making you feel like you matter. your critic is like just chopping at the bit. It's like popcorn for the critic, like give me more, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

But when you start making decisions in favor of your mind, so like, you know, for example, I don't have any social media on my phone because social media is an attack to our minds.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

I'm a firm believer in that. If someone wants to disprove me, I would love for them to try.

[Paul Butterfield]:

No, I mean, I think there's at least a dozen state legislators right now trying to figure out how to regulate it for children

[Alli Rizacos]:

For

[Paul Butterfield]:

because

[Alli Rizacos]:

sure. So, that's

[Paul Butterfield]:

the

[Alli Rizacos]:

what soldierhood's

[Paul Butterfield]:

evidence

[Alli Rizacos]:

had

[Paul Butterfield]:

seems

[Alli Rizacos]:

for

[Paul Butterfield]:

pretty,

[Alli Rizacos]:

them.

[Paul Butterfield]:

I think it's uncontroversial, incontrovertible, the evidence of the damage that it's doing to young people, especially. So.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Well, and how are we not in that category too?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah, that's fair.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Right? Like,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

we're, we also are young people inside of us too, like we're

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

just a nesting doll of all the ages that we've ever been inside of us, right? So,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

so yeah, like, so that's, so something I do every day for my mind is I don't have any social media, so that I'm not infusing my brain with like... people to compare myself to and bad news and all this stuff. So already I'm putting myself in a place where I'm not going to feed myself terrible information because I care about myself and I matter, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

If we feed ourselves terrible information, your brain's like, oh yeah, I see what you're doing because I guess we don't matter today, you know?

[Paul Butterfield]:

So I want to clarify

[Alli Rizacos]:

So

[Paul Butterfield]:

something, because you said you don't have social media on your phone. So it doesn't

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yes.

[Paul Butterfield]:

sound like you're completely unplugged from social media.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Well, my business runs on LinkedIn. So

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

I do have, like LinkedIn is the only social platform that I use and I

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

only use it on my desktop. When

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

I'm, if I'm on my desktop, then I'm working and LinkedIn is my work,

[Paul Butterfield]:

So you're

[Alli Rizacos]:

right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

being intentional about it. It's

[Alli Rizacos]:

Exactly,

[Paul Butterfield]:

not your default.

[Alli Rizacos]:

yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah, okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Oh yeah, like, but there's nothing, like my phone is basically useless. I,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay.

[Alli Rizacos]:

other than texting and I don't even call people. So other than texting, it's a camera and a texting machine for me.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay, all right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And I felt so like insane amounts of mental peace from that. Like my brain doesn't beat me up anymore. Whereas when I was just passively scrolling and every... There would just be all these like incessant thoughts of like that I'm not doing enough. It

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

always came back to that. I'd see someone that I used to work with and they're like in Aruba. And my thoughts would just start attacking me being like, why aren't you in Aruba? You should be on vacation. Do you make enough money to be on vacation? Is your business doing enough? I don't know if you're... actually successful enough. Like it would just be this like onslaught of thoughts

[Paul Butterfield]:

Right.

[Alli Rizacos]:

that I could not control because I saw an image that triggered them, right? So now if I just don't see those images, I'm good. I feel like I am doing enough.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Is that what I'm hearing?

[Alli Rizacos]:

Absolutely.

[Paul Butterfield]:

When it comes to social

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yes,

[Paul Butterfield]:

media at least. Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

yes.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Okay, all right. Thank you. Especially thank you for helping us understand and also offering some practical steps and things that people can do. Before we let you go, wanna just explore one more area. And it's a scenario that you and I talked about. You can go back in time. You've been given a gift. going back in time and having a one-on-one with yourself at any stage in your life, right? Just some younger version of you. But you can only have one topic to coach on. What do you most wish you'd known then that

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yeah,

[Paul Butterfield]:

you'd want to talk about?

[Alli Rizacos]:

this is like a no-brainer from my perspective. I wish that I knew about needs and our like fundamental needs as humans, but also our our own personal needs, right? Especially as women, we are very often socialized to not have needs and to believe that our need is to take care of other people's needs. Especially coming from a family of people pleasers and

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

you know, that sort of world. We often are told that we don't matter and again coming back to like because of the belief, we all believe

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

that about ourselves, that we don't matter and that we need to take care of other people, right? At our own expense. And what that does is completely disconnects us from our needs. And coming back to like what we all want in life, you know, that fulfillment, that inner peace, fulfillment and inner peace comes when our, all of our needs are being met. That's like literally the definition, right?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

But if you don't know what your needs are, how could you possibly meet them, right? And so instead what we do is we just trial and error. Oh, let me go try this job. Let me go date this guy. Let me go make that friend. Let me, you know, you just start trialing the world

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm. Or

[Alli Rizacos]:

thinking

[Paul Butterfield]:

buy

[Alli Rizacos]:

that,

[Paul Butterfield]:

something.

[Alli Rizacos]:

oh,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Retail therapy.

[Alli Rizacos]:

yeah,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah, yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

yeah, exactly. Like maybe these things will make me happy. Maybe

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

these things will make me happy. And instead of actually going inward and, and actually figuring out, well, what do I truly need and care about?

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Right. And how, what are my strategies by which I will go and fulfill those needs? Right. So, one is like the need for connection and community, right? And that's gonna look, you know, we will both have that need. It's a fundamental need as a human, but the way that you and I go about finding that and having that for ourselves and what that looks like for us is very different. But again, the world teaches us that it like, it looks one way and it has to, you know, there's this one way to do it. So, it's

[Paul Butterfield]:

that myth

[Alli Rizacos]:

back

[Paul Butterfield]:

of

[Alli Rizacos]:

to the

[Paul Butterfield]:

normal.

[Alli Rizacos]:

day. Exactly, but the normal

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

thing. So I would love to have known that I had needs, because I'm a recovering people pleaser, and I would have loved to know what they are, because just life would have been simpler if

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

I actually knew what I needed.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Thanks.

[Alli Rizacos]:

And then you can ask for what you need too, right? So

[Paul Butterfield]:

Mm-hmm.

[Alli Rizacos]:

much of our conflict

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

between people is because we don't know what we need, and then we don't know how to ask for it too.

[Paul Butterfield]:

And then we get upset or offended when they don't know and they don't

[Alli Rizacos]:

when they

[Paul Butterfield]:

do

[Alli Rizacos]:

go out

[Paul Butterfield]:

it.

[Alli Rizacos]:

and they don't give

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

it to them. Exactly,

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

right? That's

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah.

[Alli Rizacos]:

every conflict ever is because of this. Because

[Paul Butterfield]:

Yeah,

[Alli Rizacos]:

you don't

[Paul Butterfield]:

makes

[Alli Rizacos]:

know what

[Paul Butterfield]:

sense.

[Alli Rizacos]:

you need and you're not asking for it and the other person certainly doesn't know because they're not a mind reader.

[Paul Butterfield]:

Allie, thank you. Thank you for sharing that last piece. Thank you again for sharing some of the, you know, the coaching work that you're doing and some of the techniques and things that, that you help your clients understand, um, and, uh, appreciate your time being with us today.

[Alli Rizacos]:

Thank you. Yeah, thank you for having me.

[Paul Butterfield]:

I want to thank everyone who's been listening. Again, we wouldn't be here without your support. Appreciate your time. Ali, I did mean to ask you if people want to connect with you, LinkedIn. Sounds like maybe the only

[Alli Rizacos]:

Yes,

[Paul Butterfield]:

way. I'm

[Alli Rizacos]:

the only place, yeah.

[Paul Butterfield]:

doing it. Okay, so that's great. Well, that's gonna wrap up another episode then, and we appreciate your support, and we hope you'll be back in two weeks when we'll have another guest and another topic.