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The Power of Prayer with Thomas Hammen
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Have you ever felt like your faith was put to the test or wondered how to find solace in prayer during trying times? Thomas Hammen's inspirational journey might illuminate your path. Thomas recounts his Florida upbringing, his days as an SPO missionary, and how simple acts, like his daily short prayer, sustain his profound connection with God. This episode is a heartfelt reflection on the challenges and triumphs of faith, intended to offer hope and guidance for those navigating their own spiritual journeys.
Thomas opens up about the transition from adolescence to adulthood, revealing the missteps and the allure of vices that once distanced him from his faith. An extraordinary retreat and the joy witnessed in a friend named Mike became the catalysts for a profound personal meeting with Jesus Christ, marking a pivotal moment in his life.
We then venture deeper, exploring the sustaining role of prayer and its impact on mental well-being within the seminary walls. The conversation extends to practical advice for those experiencing spiritual desolation and the balancing act amidst the distractions of social media. Join us for an exploration of finding God in scripture, the authenticity required in prayer, and the simplicity of making space for divine encounters in everyday life. Thomas Hammen's story isn't just about faith; it's an invitation to weave the divine into the fabric of our daily lives.
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Welcome to yes Catholic, the place where real people share their real stories and realize that it's all God's grace on the move. I'm your host, david Patterson, and every week we hear a new guest share their story of how they came to give their guests to Jesus and his church. So let's get started. I'm so excited to welcome Thomas Hauman. Welcome, buddy. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story. Great to be here. Thanks for the opportunity. Absolutely, man. For those who don't know you, why don't you share a little bit about yourself before we dive into the rapid fire?
Speaker 2Totally yes, and a little bit before this we had some technical difficulties. So you know, you know this is about to be an amazing conversation. It meant to that man it's about to do something.
Speaker 1That's right.
Speaker 2What's up everyone. My name is Thomas Hauman. A little bit about me. I'm 27 years old. This is my first year in the seminary, which has been a huge gift. It really means a lot that you're tuning in and, yeah, my real hope is that this conversation would be a blessing to you and my hope is to connect with some of you. So if you find this interesting or just have further questions, you can go ahead and reach out or DM me. But a little bit about me Born in Tallahassee, florida, grew up in Winterhaven, florida, which is just south of Orlando, and right now I'm in Boynton Beach, florida, at St Vincent de Paul Seminary.
Speaker 2So it's like just north of Miami. And a little bit about Florida. I love Florida. It's amazing. I love the heat and the beaches and I just want to say that Florida man is definitely real. Sometimes I could be a Florida man, but it's awesome Like just beautiful diversity of so many sweet people here. But then the last thing would be beyond that. I went to Florida State University, gondoles. I was an SBO missionary for four years and I'm really passionate about building my own personal prayer life and also inspiring others and giving them tools on how to have the amazing relationship with Jesus that he wants for you.
Speaker 1So thanks again for having me, and I'm really looking forward to you dive deeper into mental prayer and just how that's really impacted you as well. But let's get to know you a little bit more. Man with the rapid fire ready, tackle some of these questions. Okay, let's do it All right, describe yourself as a kid in three words.
Speaker 2Oh man, my parents would love this one. I would say the first is got to be curious. I feel like I was always asking why. Second would be hyper I'm pretty sure I was all over the place On the go. And the third would be Legos. I just kind of grew up with Legos and Bionicles.
Speaker 1Did you keep the Legos like built in on display, or were they always like broken down Eventually?
Speaker 2there was definitely like a wall of fame in my room of, like, my creations.
Speaker 1Okay, you got to have a pile ready to go, you know because my kids currently have this massive bucket of hundreds of dollars worth of Lego. But it's, it is what it is, dude, they've gotten so expensive, it's crazy. Anyway, it's insane. Are you a morning person or a night owl?
Speaker 2I'm definitely a morning person. When I was growing up my dad shout to my dad. He would get up at like 430 every morning and I remember when I was younger I was like why would you ever do that? Ever. So now that I'm older, just the joy of like getting up early, getting some good prayer and getting after it, like the joy of knowing I'm firing all cylinders, is really sweet. So morning person.
Speaker 1I can relate to that for sure. Okay, if you could have any superpower or to be Growing up.
Speaker 2a hero of mine was Zuko from Avatar, the last airbender. So I just want to be a firebender.
Speaker 1I would choose that's why I choose that. Fair enough, all right, go to work at a coffee shop.
Speaker 2I'm typically just a black iced coffee, nothing too fancy. But I have to admit, man, if I'm like at the airport every once in a while, I'll get some like cinnamon bark, you know, just like something really sugary.
Speaker 1No, no, no, it's depending on the season.
Speaker 2Depending on the season, pump and spice. So that's what I'd say.
Speaker 1No, it's fair. Okay, go to short prayer, going about your day.
Speaker 2I think throughout my day, a prayer that's always on my lips is just Jesus and the David have mercy on me. I said that a massive day, man, beautiful. Yeah, I mean, it's like going to class, exercising, like whatever it is. It's kind of just always having Jesus' name on my lips. Or if I'm ever in like a pen, sure, like a bind, sure, jesus said David mercy on me, it's my good to.
Speaker 1There's power in Jesus right. And then you could have coffee with any saints. You got your ice coffee, you sit down. Who's sitting across the table?
Speaker 2My first answer is definitely St Augustine. Yeah, I just feel like he would have some stories and just the richness of his journey towards the Lord and then the eloquence of how he describes his conversion in the confessions is just a really beautiful mixture of like the head and the heart, and just his writings have really helped me. So I would definitely enjoy a nice sugary coffee with.
Speaker 1Pumpkin, spice latte, ice coffee, whatever. All right, last one. If you could ask God one question, what would it be?
Speaker 2Wow, this is kind of deep. But I think I would just ask him how do you see me? Because I've experienced in prayer him speaking his particular delight for me, and to hear the Lord say that would be really beautiful and powerful.
Speaker 1So have you ever asked that question, kneeling before our Lord in the tabernacle?
Speaker 2Totally. I'd say that's kind of the strength of the day is going into those prayer times receiving the approval affirmation of the Father and then going out getting after the day. That's it. That's the secret right there.
Speaker 1So yeah, you mentioned that. Well, you flew through the rapid fire. Let's begin with the prayer and then we'll get your share of story. All right, let's do it. The name of the Father and the Son, the Holy.
Speaker 2Spirit Amen.
Speaker 1Come Holy Spirit, teach us how to pray. Holy Father, I thank you so much for Thomas. I thank you for his yes and Lord, for the way that he has grown closer to you in prayer. And, lord, I pray that you would help us to decrease, that you would increase. Lord, jesus, hope everything that we discussed tonight just give you glory. And, lord, I pray for everyone tuning in and who will listen in the future. Lord, I pray that you would just open our hearts to receive what you want us to receive. We say yes to you, lord. Help us to not be afraid of giving our yes, of opening wide the door of our heart to you, and we make this prayer in Jesus' name. Amen. Saint Augustine, please pray for us the name of the Father and of the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen. All right, man, let's dive right in. Where's your story begin?
Speaker 2Yeah, super grateful to have the opportunity to share my story. I'm 27 years old now and I just can't believe it. I can't believe I'm here in the seminary. I can't believe just the joy that the Lord has given me and how radically different my life looks now. And yeah, just to jump right into my story, I guess I'd say sometimes it's easy to think that seminarians or priests like grow on trees, you know.
Speaker 2But like no, I grew up in like a totally normal family, like in the United States, like with Disney Channel and cheering for the NFL and all of it. So I think that my story is similar to many people. Just to start off with my parents, I definitely would say that like the primary way that God has loved me or invested in me is through my mom and dad. I have awesome, awesome mom and dad. They're high school sweethearts, which is a really cool story that I got to share sometime. But I have a younger brother, anthony, who's two years younger than me, and then my amazing younger sister, violet, who's 10 years younger than me, which has been an amazing gift. But, yeah, so grew up in Florida, I'd say. To run through it, I grew up feeling very close to God. I was raised in a Catholic family where we went to Mass every Sunday. My mom loves Jesus with all her heart and was really amazing at gathering us together to pray the rosary. And my dad is so handy we call him Mr Fix it, he can fix anything. And when my church home, parish, is being renovated, I remember like being a boy and being in the church as my dad's like working away on the inside. So I kind of described like my boyhood as just like being safe, being a boy, having fun, boy scouts, sports.
A Journey of Faith and Healing
Speaker 2But then I'd say, going into middle school and I think this is particularly appropriate If you're a young person listening to this or you have children middle school really changed everything for me. I mean, I'm sure I don't know if anyone has had like a smooth middle school experience, but I think middle school was when the question emerged who am I and am I lovable? Am I enough and do people like me? And on top of that, man, the world just comes out of nowhere. So the introduction of pornography, going into high school, the allure of alcohol or drugs or dating relationships, yeah, I definitely felt this.
Speaker 2Oh, my goodness, I'm no longer in this safe boyhood stage. I feel, oh man, I've really let God down. And that was the introduction of this shame, I'd say, where it was no longer feeling very close to God. But in middle school and high school, oh, I'm not as good as I thought I was, I've really let God down, and so maybe he's just over there somewhere and that kind of really started this kind of fake it till I make it mentality If I'm doing well in school, if I have a girlfriend, if I'm successful, then I'm good. That answers the question if I'm lovable, if I'm enough, which sends me to Florida State University. Which amazing gonols. I don't know if you're a college football fan or not.
Speaker 1I'm up here in Canada, so it's a little different, oh yeah, slightly different.
Speaker 2Well, here in Florida it's definitely major, but not gonna talk about the Georgia game, but anyways. So get to college, which we know. College is a huge battlegrounds for the souls of young people. The statistics are crazy 80 to 90% leaving the faith in their college years. And yeah, I went into that year still looking to prove myself, looking for this validation, and I ended up joining a very popular fraternity which a lot of great memories and awesome relationships with the guys there.
Speaker 2But I just found myself getting in more and more situations that I never thought I would be in, and with more and more shame and deeper down this spiral which led me to further believe that God was disappointing me, which led me to stop going to mass. So there was a good six-month period, I'd say when I was 18, where I kind of stopped going to mass and just thought I'm gonna do this my life thing on my own. But that was the moment where I met this guy. His name was Mike and Mike was an Espio missionary. And Mike didn't come up to me and say you're not going to mass, your terrible Catholic. He said hey, man, do you wanna go grab lunch sometime? Do you wanna spend time together and with my relationship with Mike, I really formed this friendship and I saw in Mike, this Catholic young man, joy and confidence that I clearly did not have and I mean respectfully, my friends and my fraternity didn't have either and I just continued to be drawn to this honestly character of Mike.
Speaker 2So in the spring of my freshman year, when man, all my weekends were blurring together and I just felt in this spiral, I think at that point I would honestly describe myself as kind of surviving or just this numbing way of living, I'd say pretty like populous or depressed, like I just have to get through the week and maybe something will happen on the weekend and show up again. But Mike starts telling me about this retreat that's coming up in the spring and I'm like, well, like Mike's a good guy and like all my weekends look the same, anyway, so I'll give it a shot, yeah, switch it up. And so I go on this retreats with Forte State and the Catholic Student Union and I just heard the gospel for the first time in a really powerful way, and I'm sure I'd heard it before. But for some reason, god, let me have open ears.
Speaker 2And I remember being at this retreat center where everyone was so nice to me and interested in my life and I heard that there's a God who made me out of love because he loves me. He gave me freedom and I've used that freedom to turn away from him, to break that relationship. But when I did that, he didn't condemn me or abandon me, but he came after me to rescue me and he came in the person of Jesus and he loved me so much that he died for me and rose. And if I like, believe that, if I want a relationship with him, then I can be reconciled to God and I can be healed. And that spring of my freshman year on that retreat in front of you, chris, I can still. I'm still there. I had an encounter with Jesus Christ as a person and his love for me that I'll never forget and I still return to that in my prayer to this day. But the crazy thing is oh yeah, you can jump in.
Speaker 1Was that the moment when you saw the Lord fighting for you throughout your life? Yes, wow, can you speak to that a little bit, because I think that that's incredible, totally.
Speaker 2I'd say that when I looked at my teenage years and I looked at my college years, every time that I took a step away from God, he put people in my life, he put opportunities for me to come back. It was kind of this like constant pursuit on his path and the idea that he was angry at me or disappointed in me was like a total lie from the enemy. And yeah, that was. That was really powerful. So, but coming to a conclusion here, so you would think that, like I have this encounter and I go back and I like change my life completely. But, man, I really struggled. I had met Jesus, but I was still very much in my friend group, in the world, in my habits, and I mean, if you're, if you're listening to this and you feel this way, you feel this duplicity in yourself, I would just say to like really have hope and lean into that, because God is doing something. And basically that led from my freshman spring to my sophomore spring. This okay, I'm going to Mass again and then falling in my face into sin again, feeling ashamed, cowering, but then God reaching out again with a friend or an invitation Okay, I'm going again, which led to one of the most richest times of my life, which would be my sophomore spring, where God finally gave me the courage to say I'm done being one foot in, one foot out. I'm going to take a leap and I'm going to go to feed in. And I remember my roommates at the time who, like I love a lot, they thought I was crazy because they're like what's going on, man, you're not going out with us tonight, you're not doing this tonight? And I basically just started trying to make time for prayer, like prayer is my substitute for all the access in my life. And really that sophomore spring was so healing because I found what I had been looking for in all the things in the world, st Augustine. I found in the love I received in daily prayer and it was just this gradual, greater healing and greater confidence to where God really changed my heart.
Speaker 2So going into my junior year, like all by God's grace, like I've viewed myself totally differently. I had a confidence in myself, like a new love for other people and for the first in my life I could say know the things when I needed to and yes to things that I really wanted and that led to a lot of awesome, happy memories that Florida State building community there and ultimately, based on the freedom that I'd experienced, I was like, well, there's no question, there's multiple, there's countless men out there like me. So I'm going to, I'm going to go be a missionary and see if I can see, if I can find some freshmen.
Speaker 2Thomas is you know, and I made the closest friends in my life in Texas as a missionary for four years, just the joy of going out and trying to just be a brother to people, and it was so rewarding. And then we can get into this more. But then through that, just deeper and deeper, I experienced this call of God saying you know, I do satisfy your heart and what you're looking for. And here I am today. So there's a lot of, there's a lot more in between all of that.
Speaker 1Sure yeah.
Speaker 2But so my heart is really for those who do feel that shame, perhaps that God is disappointed with them, and especially for those who feel caught in the duplicated, duplicated life, double mindedness, double mindedness.
Speaker 1So there you go, there you go. It's good man. Yeah, how did the Lord heal your own heart through serving as a missionary?
Speaker 2Oh, wow, that's a wonderful question. I would say that, as so typical in the college missionary, you're out on campus and you are just looking to say hello to people and everyone's kind of walking by with their headphones on and not really interested. But it's so crazy. You're out there and instead of experiencing like oh, like these people are so rude, these kids these days get off my lawn you like experience a love for them, which is like Psalm 16 is one of my favorite Psalms. It says you put into my heart a marvelous love for your faithful that dwell in your land. And so I'd say, being a missionary gave space for God to give me his heart for his people, where I experienced an empathy and a love for, yeah, these these college kids who I saw a lot of my self in.
Speaker 2And then the second thing would be if you're going to evangelize, you're going to make mistakes. So if you are attempting to evangelize and be on mission and you feel like you keep messing up, that's like totally normal, yeah, and it's all geared towards God teaching you how much you need him and without him you can do nothing. So I feel like I'm coming out of my missionary years knowing that without God, I suck and I, but when, when I'm rooted in him, when I'm choosing prayer every day, like we're going to talk about, yeah, he does. He wants to do amazing things through me and through everyone listening to yeah, Amen for sure.
Speaker 1What was the transition from missionary to then seminar? You want to speak to that a little bit.
Speaker 2Yeah, great question. Um, yeah, if you're thinking about seminary on here, it's really amazing. It's basically for me, it's been a whole year of God just wanting to heal me and God just slowing me down. To have older men in my life Awesome, Older priests here speak truth into my life to affirm me and also to call me higher. But I'd say the major transition for me has been missionary.
Speaker 2Lifestyle is super active. So you're in the team meetings, you're meeting up with students on campus, getting that coffee, you know, and ice coffee, ice coffee, that's right. And seminary is a lot more taking that energy and activism and pointing it towards prayer and pointing it towards growing in intellectual knowledge, but also your character, which has been really good for me, because the two patrons, two patron saints of missionaries for the Catholic Church are St Francis Xavier, a man who is a Christian, who was very active, who was exhausted from baptizing people in India, but the second is St Teresa of Lassute, who never left her comment. So how is she the patron saint of missionaries? Because her prayer life, her intercession, was so effective in God's hands. So the thing that I need to believe is that me here, not on the college campus interceding for young people could be more efficacious or more fruitful than any of my own active works which is insane.
Speaker 2So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, that's awesome. And do you want to speak to mental prayer and what that looks like for you? Because I think it's so important in the in your own journey with the Lord, so totally totally yeah, if you're, if you're listening and you kind of going in and out.
Speaker 2This is like I've noticed, and I'm sure you've noticed as well this growing trend. I think I first started noticing it in the calm app. If you're familiar with the calm app, it's a, it's a super popular meditation app LeBron James uses it. Or yoga, or yeah, focusing on mental health, or there's all these reels, especially now, where it's like going to go into the gym is my, like my time, like my restorative time and seeing that there's, there's truth and all of that like it's. It's so close.
Speaker 2Society today is recognizing that as humans, we need a place of solace, we need a source of strength, we need a daily place to be restored. But meditation, yoga, the gym is good. I mean, well, I don't know about yoga, don't call me on that, but it doesn't go far enough Like it. It doesn't go to what we're really searching for, which is another, which is something outside of ourselves, which is God. So when we talk about mental prayer, I'd be good to just like define our terms. So I'd refer to mental prayer as simply time alone, in conversation with God. It's time in silence where we can lift our minds and our hearts to God, and there's many awesome ways to pray. We have the highest form of the mass, we have the rosary. You can always pray like.
Speaker 2Scripture tells us to pray without ceasing. But when we talk about mental prayer, we're talking about a specific decision to carve out a portion of your day just to be with God. So my story is that this was really taught to me when I was in college and this is crazy. This is like all God's grace. I'm not trying to brag or anything, but when I was thinking about it, since I've been 21 years old, every day I've missed a couple of days, but like never, like a week break, which is, lord, let that make sense. Every day. Since I've been 21, I've spent 30 minutes of silence every day with God, and imagine if you went to the gym every day for 30 minutes. Imagine if you tried to learn Spanish every day for 30 minutes and imagine how much God could do in your life if you gave him that portion of time. And so, yeah, does that make sense? Maybe?
Speaker 1you want to oh, it does for sure any of that so. And so, during that 30 minutes, what does it look like for you?
Speaker 2Totally so. What really opened my eyes to this is a couple spiritual readings that have been really helpful for me, so I just wanted to shout out this is called Time for God. Okay, jacques Philippe, I don't know if you ever heard it.
Speaker 2Yeah for sure. But it basically emphasizes that not to get stuck in methods or routines like prayer is always a gift. But what that looks like for me personally is in the morning, like before anything else, I get my coffee, I get in the chapel or in my favorite chair in my room in the quiet, and I simply just try to be in God's presence. And it's hard but it's easy to describe where it's not a matter of thinking, it's not a matter of verbalization, but it's a matter of the heart, if that makes sense, like the deepest part of us just seeking to be with God. And typically what I do is I'll just take a few moments to be in His presence and ask Him to be with me. I'll look at the daily readings for the day and I'll just ask the Lord what are you speaking to me from these daily readings?
Speaker 1Like lexiodivina.
Speaker 2Yeah, like lexiodivina, which is really, really helpful, and journaling is super crucial during that time. But sometimes it's just this grace of I'll sit down, I'll say come away, spirit, and minutes will fly blank, just experiencing being His presence. But then there's other times where, like it's hard, it's so easy to get distracted I don't feel like doing it at all. But love is a choice. Just like you're not always gonna feel, you're always gonna feel like it with, I don't know, your spouse or your friends or whatever. Like choosing it is so powerful.
Speaker 2And I guess one thing I add is it really like prayers, like a muscle, if that makes sense. So like when I first started it was okay, god, like 10 minutes, I'm gonna set the timer and I'm just gonna try to talk with you. Honestly, I'm trying to be with you and at the start I would really make it like five minutes. But just persevering little by little is so crucial. And especially in the seminary now, or going towards the priesthood, like a priest or seminarian who doesn't pray, who doesn't make time for prayer, is like dead. I know that Father Mike Smith he quotes he had a mentor who told him like if you're not committed to spending like an hour with the Lord every day, like you should like, take step back, like you should really reconsider. So, yeah, that would be a few thoughts I'd have.
Speaker 1Yeah, no, that's good advice for sure. You got a question in the chat. What advice would you give to those who fake it till you make it survival state rather than thriving? Any thoughts there, Thomas?
Speaker 2Oh wow.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think honesty in the spiritual life is so amazing, and I think the fact that you have recognized this reality in your life, of faking it till you make it, is like a huge, a huge win. And the advice that I've always been given is to acknowledge, relate to the Lord and then receive what he says. And so when I feel that way or maybe something that I would offer is honestly speaking that to God in a time of prayer, like I don't know, maybe tomorrow, you're like okay, I've got a few minutes, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna say, Lord, you know me. And it feels like I am faking it right now and without any censorship, like you're talking to your best friend. Just write it out and then take a few moments and see what he says in return. And so I in fact I'm about to do that see what happens, Cause he's gonna speak the truth to you, which is you're a beloved son or daughter. So Mm.
Hope, Prayer, and Desolation
Speaker 1Yeah, the masks fall, that's right, I see you right. And then so Absolutely yeah. What is your hope for the future of our church? You thought it's like Wow, it's a loaded question, but I ask every guest.
Speaker 2That's a beautiful question my hope for the future of the church. I went to seek this year and there's a really powerful message by Monsignor Shea and he talked about how, as Catholics, we can romanticize the past and have this like unhealthy desire for the future. If that makes sense, Like in the past, there were no problems for the church, it was the golden age, and in the future, someday we'll reach this point where everything will be great, you know. But the beautiful truth is like that's not reality. And in the past the first Christians were brutally persecuted and martyred, the heroic missionaries who evangelized Canada. Shadow of Canada and.
Speaker 2America face tremendous obstacles and, like now, it's our turn. Like God had you born, god had me born for this time. So I guess my hope would be that as a church, as Catholics, we would embrace like this this is our time to witness that Jesus is Lord, this is our time to witness that God is greater than any circumstance. And, yeah, just like right now it's good, god is doing something good, and to have a real hope. And then my second thought as I'm thinking about this is I love the real emphasis that Pope John Paul II, pope Francis and Pope Francis have really emphasized, where there's no longer a time for merely disciples and merely missionaries, but every baptized Catholic is a missionary, disciple. And to recognize and own that before pointing out words oh, look at all these problems. To look at myself like I could be better, I could be evangelizing. There's God as a mission for me to do. And, yeah, if together we could help every Catholic to know that, wow, that would be really powerful. And all of that, of course, fueled by prayer.
Speaker 1So, yeah, yeah, well, going back to prayer, you actually got another question about it. Can you talk about balancing scripture readings and contemplation in personal prayer?
Speaker 2Wow.
Speaker 2I can't talk about that I would say that the advice that's always been given to me is stay where the grace is, stay where the grace is. So let's see, if I'm in my breivery and I've got my scripture passage and like, for some reason, the first line I read just wrecks me, just pierces me, like there's no pressure to keep going, like, be patient and stay where the grace is. Adding on that, if, yeah, you're taking your daily prayer time, you've got your three minutes locked in. I found for me at the start the temptation was to just go crazy. Through scripture I'm gonna read like five chapters and actually it would be more rich and fruitful.
Speaker 2Hey, maybe let's just take a small section and, like we mentioned earlier, lectio Domina. Let's go through it prayerfully a few times and I guarantee there's going to be either a word or a phrase that's going to stick out. And then, when we talk about contemplation, we know that, okay, this word leads me to lifting my mind and pondering it. Meditation, which allows me to meet God there. Contemplation, this union with God where you can kind of rest. So if you pray, if you have a prayer life, you know exactly what I'm talking about. And if you don't, yes, this is totally available for you. For you, the prayer lives that we read about from the saints is like not exclusive, but God has that level of intimacy he wants with you.
Speaker 1So but great question, good advice, man, and you got questions flying in, so I'm trying to keep up with everybody. Thanks for dropping them in the chat, but as you're talking, man, they're just like boom, boom, boom. So, all right, within seasons of desolation or not hearing the Lord's voice clearly, how do you tackle this, or what has been helpful for you? Yeah, I think, oh, yeah, yeah, sorry you got more people in the chat being like please talk about desolation and suffering. I think a lot of people are just sharing that.
Speaker 2Okay, yeah, I would say so. Let's define our terms. I'm sorry if you already noticed, consolation is when you feel God, man, I can't wait to pray today, I can't wait to go to mass, I can't wait to love my neighbor. Desolation is like I suck. God seems so far away. The last thing I want to do is pray. I just want to scroll my phone. I don't want to go to mass, I'm comfortable in my bed, if that makes sense. And then, if we go deeper than that, there's natural consolations and desolations. So, like natural consolation, you see a sunset. You're like that's awesome. Natural desolation is like I didn't get enough sleep last night, you know. So my blunt response would be a lot of desolation can be cured by fixing natural desolations. So, are you going to bed at a reasonable time? Are you getting up at a normal time every day, like are you getting enough sleep? That makes sense. Are you eating healthy food? Are you exercising?
Speaker 2But, continuing to your question, it's very hard to say someone to someone in desolation, just like keep at it, you know, because I understand. So I just want to say, first and foremost, like a real empathy there, and I've gone through seasons of just dryness and discouragement. So you're totally not alone in that. I think what I would say is St Ignatius lays out amazing principles on how to deal with desolation, and his primary rule is when you're in desolation, remember. Look back and remember the times of consolation. This is You've got a statefulness. Yes, this is kind of silly, but I have a tattoo of that on my arm.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2It's his fifth rule and it means so much to me and it says when you're in desolation, like, remember consolation and know that in the future consolation is coming. And I'm throwing a lot at you. But there could be two reasons for the desolation. This is rules six and seven. But the one is maybe the Lord is allowing this to point you towards unhealthy tendencies in your life, unhealthy attachments, and it's more of like a loving pruning. But the second is to infuse and just work in your heart. And it's a mystery, but showing up and saying, lord, I trust you, in desolation, in the darkness, with that blind faith, like works wonders. It's the secret of the spiritual life. It's way above my pay grade, but we read about it in St John of the Cross. Mother Teresa famously endured this, but it's an opportunity to participate in Jesus's life and his passion who, feeling no warm emotions, gave everything for us on the cross. So that was a really long answer. Do you have any more questions?
Speaker 1Yeah, you got more coming in for sure. But what I would just say is just to I have definitely reached moments of desolation and struggle in my own journey and I think don't be afraid to just cry out to the Lord and to ask those questions why I don't understand. I want just to bring it be so honest with the Lord in all of it. I don't know. It's really helped me.
Speaker 2I love that.
Speaker 1All right, what do you do when you can't hear the Lord? And what was the most adventurous thing you did as a missionary?
Speaker 2Okay, let's see. Wow, I'm just like so many memories of being a missionary.
Speaker 1I believe it. Yeah, man.
Speaker 2In my head. I was like to reach people who have very little interest in going to Mass, like, but everybody loves like a good road trip or a good bonfire or good you know, just like human things. But when you can't hear the Lord, a couple of thoughts come to mind, but the first I would just state again I don't want to just give you a like wrote answer. Like be encouraged. God has not abandoned you and he is working in your life and he's doing something. So keep showing up, keep hanging in there.
Speaker 2One thing that we can absolutely cling to is scripture is the word of God and even if things are confusing, we know, like particularly the gospels, like that is what the Lord wants to speak to you. Jesus is like the word, like the Father well, I'm getting way too spacing out, but like what does the Father want to say to us? Is like Jesus, the image of Jesus giving everything for us and dying for us, like that's the word of the Father. So I would just say scripture is a go to guarantee every single time you're going to open it and that's God speaking to you. And I love what you shared, david, just like the radical honesty. Like Lord, I don't understand what's going on, but I know you're with me and I know you will speak.
Speaker 2You know, and also just like I don't know, how can we make more space to slow down and hear him? I find when I am not hearing God, I'm too busy. I'm not giving him any space to speak, I'm not. I have not taken my time in the morning to be with him, I've just jumped into it. I have not slowed down at the end of the day and reflected Okay, that would be another thing At the end of the day, could you take a few moments and look back, god? Where were you speaking to me? I guarantee in a conversation with a friend and whatever it is, he's there reaching out.
Speaker 1Yeah, do an exam at the end of the night.
Speaker 2The exam shut the exam.
Speaker 1Shut up to the exam for sure. It's so important right just to be able to meditate and reflect on, I find, imaginative prayer. I don't know if you've entered into that a lot Ignatian spirituality, I think, really does a lot of that but that's been huge for me Just being able to ask the Lord, even like Lord, would you bring me to a place that is safe for me personally, and then inviting Jesus into that and then just allowing him to communicate his love. It's just amazing how the Lord will speak through that.
Speaker 2That's beautiful. Yeah, I agree, I love these questions. These questions are great Dude they're like flying it. I didn't answer the most adventurous thing as a missionary one.
Speaker 2I would say oh gosh, Glory stories come on Something I loved I just loved it so much is every year, at the beginning of the year, we would do a hog roast where, like so many new students would come out. I just have a very precious memory of we would pull an all-nighter every year and we'd smoke brisket for like 300 people. The brotherhood experience there, the camaraderie you would take shifts with guys throughout the night. It was a way of us bonding. Yeah, that'd be one thing. So we did go to Coronado, the Navy Seal base, and we got to pray with the Navy Seals. That's one I just remembered.
Speaker 1So that's pretty cool. Yeah, that is cool. If you've ever done like all-nighter adorations before they used to do this event where it was like all-night adoration If you've ever done that before, you'd probably put that as a missionary.
Speaker 2Yes, I'm trying to think of a specific moment. Okay, I've got it. Holy week, shout out, holy week coming up. We had a tradition where on Holy Thursday, all-night guys would be in prayer to console Jesus in the garden and every guy would sign up for an hour and yeah, and like, once you're done, you go wake up the next guy and everything. And yeah, that 2am slot reading the Luke account. Would you not stay awake with me for one hour? It makes it all real.
Speaker 1Yeah, so many vivid memories because I was in youth ministry for like seven years before. But just doing the 2am slot or the 3am, just like looking at Jesus, my bird was like Lord, just help me, stay awake.
Speaker 2Yes, and it gets to know that, like that's very real, it's real life, it's real life, yeah, yeah man, how did you, how are you inspired to get onto social media and start posting?
Speaker 1Kind of curious about that.
Speaker 2Yes, a couple of thoughts. The first would be I've noticed it's very trendy. He's a guy that's a big figure. I don't know if you're familiar this guy. His name is Nick Bear. He's based in Texas. He basically is a what he would call a hybrid athlete. So he is a runner and like a bodybuilder. It's like you see him and you're like what the heck? That's ridiculous. But he's really cultivated a following in young men, particularly by just kind of like every day is not Guide to modernity, taking life, and it's been, it's been really amazing.
Speaker 2I once again, I would say I'm totally learning and we were talking earlier like most of the time, but the interaction I've been able to have people reaching out to me and as I've been posting, it's been forcing me to reflect on do I really believe that prayer is non-negotiable? Do I really believe that I need you, jesus, every day? And so that's been really fruitful. I will say I feel like what's good to acknowledge that, like social media is very addictive, and I've had to look at myself in the mirror and recognize that. One cool thing that I'll advertise is we're totally off topic now, but the iPhone has a it's called downtime and you can get someone to put a code in, so this is so great. My little sister is my like accountability partner, so my phone just like stops working at 10 AM.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's amazing and it'll boot up again at 6 AM the apps at least. So that's been amazing, so.
Speaker 1No, yeah, it's super helpful. I mean even just to deal with all the notifications that comes in through social media, just to be able to actually get a good night's sleep and not be woken up by them. Is it's good to have boundaries, you know? I mean with social media, because it can definitely be all consuming Right Totally. But I think that awareness that you spoke about is the first step.
Speaker 2Yeah, I just think I'm taking away from this conversation is like we've talked about honesty a lot. You know being honest with ourselves and then being completely honest with God in prayer, like holding nothing back, yeah, so Absolutely Well, man, I just want to thank you so much for your yes to Jesus and his church.
Speaker 1It's been a, it's been a gift man, and even somebody just said in the chat I've never been so interested in live content before my husband. I are listening over dinner putting the kids to bed. God bless you, wow. So praise the Lord for that man. I mean it's.
Speaker 2God, that's great.
Speaker 1Yeah, it's amazing what you've been able to share about prayer and honesty and just thankful for your yes man, the content you're putting out. I mean friends, if you are not following Thomas yet, you hit that follow button because I'm sure he's got much more amazing content that's going to be coming out. So just want to thank you.
Speaker 2Thank you so much for this opportunity and, yes, I would just say my goal is there. There's so much stimulus and information flying, especially on this app, but my hope is that every time you would see my accounts or my post, you're pointed towards the one thing that will, that will give you strength, which is Jesus, which is I love the theme of just putting in the work, showing up every day, lord, mold my heart. I don't feel like it, but I trust that if I give you this 30 minutes, this time alone, with you, you're going to make me a saint and that's like it. That's like an invincible method. So keep it up, keep praying and, yeah, you're awesome and this is such a great concept and idea, and thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1Not exactly what you were just saying. Maybe think of our lady. The last word she echoed in scripture was do whatever he tells you. Right, jesus, which is exactly what I think your, your vision is for the account, which is awesome. If people want to connect and follow, how can they, how can they do that, man?
Speaker 2Yeah, I'm really looking to stay consistent with this account on Instagram. So I'd love, yeah, hit the follow button and I will do my best. If you want to message me or follow up opinions you want to offer or questions, that'd be really great, I'll do. I'll do my best to respond directly to that. And then I would just say please pray for me, pray for my vocation, pray for my studies of philosophy, please pray for me.
Speaker 1So yeah, thanks, first, definitely coming your way. But on that note, would you be willing to close this prayer tonight Totally?
Speaker 2Let's do it. The name of Father, Son, Holy Spirit, Amen, Amen. Father, we thank you for your great love for us and we thank you for the joy and delight that you have for everyone who's tuned in for this conversation and for both of us here as we're talking. Thank you that when you see us, when you look at us, you delight in us as your beloved sons and your beloved daughters, and we thank you, Lord, that your desire is to make us saints and to give us grace and strength every day in prayer. And so my, my, my ask, Lord, is that you would convict me, first and foremost, but also everyone listening, of the amounts of grace, support and transformation you, you want to pour out. You want to so freely give.
Speaker 2When we make time for prayer, Just pray for a renewal overall and a love for prayer around the world, specifically on the United States and Canada, that you would raise up the saints, that we would be those saints to meet the challenges of the day. And, yeah, we also want to continue to ask for the intercession of your mother, Jesus, who gave that limitless yes, that perfect yes, and we ask for her intercession that we could give that same yes as we pray. Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now, at the hour of our death. Amen.
Speaker 1Amen.
Speaker 2And the Father, son Holy.
Speaker 1Spirit amen. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the ministry, please share with others, post about it on social media or please leave a rating on review. To catch all the latest stories, you can follow us on Instagram at yescatholic and visit our website yescatholiccom. If you have benefited from yes Catholic, please consider joining our Patreon community. Visit patreoncom slash yescatholic. I would like to thank our current patrons for your ongoing prayers, support and contributions that have helped yes Catholic reach thousands of souls all over the world each week. 1 Peter 3 15 says Always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who calls you to account for the hope that is in you. You have a story. Don't be afraid to share the good news of how Jesus Christ has moved in your life with a family member, friend or colleague. Give Jesus your yes every single day and watch the ripple effect of the gospel. Join us next week. The journey continues right here at yes Catholic.