Have you ever been captivated by the stories of your ancestors, the journeys they embarked on, and the experiences that shaped their lives? In our latest episode, we're joined by Arnie Aranci, whose Italian-American roots are as rich and flavorful as the cuisine of his heritage. Arnie enthralls with tales of his father's migration from the picturesque Italian countryside to the United States, his consequential return as a soldier in World War II, and the heartwarming romance that blossomed with his mother, a war bride from Livorno. Each anecdote Arnie shares is a thread in the vibrant tapestry of his family history, a relatable connection for anyone with a lineage reaching across oceans and generations.
Picture the tight-knit Italian communities that helped shape the cultural fabric of America's East Coast. Arnie takes us through the streets of New Haven and into the warm embrace of his family life in post-war Hamden, revealing stories from the local bakeries his father toiled in to celebrity sightings at the legendary Pepe's pizzeria. But history isn't always found in public records; sometimes, it's unearthed through the science of DNA testing. Arnie's foray into genealogy is fraught with the frustration of lost documents but also charged with the thrill of unexpected family discoveries.
As a history teacher, Arnie understands the importance of keeping the stories of the past alive. His reflections on the evolving nature of history education, from Reconstruction to recent global events, highlight the need to connect yesterday's lessons with today's realities. And what's a conversation without a little anticipation for the future? Arnie hints at upcoming literary endeavors, inspired by the enthusiastic responses to his novel "Nicla's Story." Join us for a heartfelt episode that celebrates the persistence of memory, the bonds of family, and the continual rediscovery of our shared heritage.
The Silver King's War The Silver King's War is a series of World War II plays (The Silver King, Marauder Men,...
Have you ever been captivated by the stories of your ancestors, the journeys they embarked on, and the experiences that shaped their lives? In our latest episode, we're joined by Arnie Aranci, whose Italian-American roots are as rich and flavorful as the cuisine of his heritage. Arnie enthralls with tales of his father's migration from the picturesque Italian countryside to the United States, his consequential return as a soldier in World War II, and the heartwarming romance that blossomed with his mother, a war bride from Livorno. Each anecdote Arnie shares is a thread in the vibrant tapestry of his family history, a relatable connection for anyone with a lineage reaching across oceans and generations.
Picture the tight-knit Italian communities that helped shape the cultural fabric of America's East Coast. Arnie takes us through the streets of New Haven and into the warm embrace of his family life in post-war Hamden, revealing stories from the local bakeries his father toiled in to celebrity sightings at the legendary Pepe's pizzeria. But history isn't always found in public records; sometimes, it's unearthed through the science of DNA testing. Arnie's foray into genealogy is fraught with the frustration of lost documents but also charged with the thrill of unexpected family discoveries.
As a history teacher, Arnie understands the importance of keeping the stories of the past alive. His reflections on the evolving nature of history education, from Reconstruction to recent global events, highlight the need to connect yesterday's lessons with today's realities. And what's a conversation without a little anticipation for the future? Arnie hints at upcoming literary endeavors, inspired by the enthusiastic responses to his novel "Nicla's Story." Join us for a heartfelt episode that celebrates the persistence of memory, the bonds of family, and the continual rediscovery of our shared heritage.
The Silver King's War The Silver King's War is a series of World War II plays (The Silver King, Marauder Men,...
Purchase my book "Farmers and Nobles" here or at Amazon.
Speaker 1:
Hi everyone, this is Bob Sorrentino, from Italian Roots and Genealogy, and be sure to check out our blog and our YouTube channel and our newsletter and our great sponsors, your Dolce Vita, italy Rooting and Abiettivo Casa. And my guest today is Arnie Aranchi, and so welcome, arnie. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:
Nice to be here.
Speaker 1:
So I usually start out with, I guess, a very simple question when is your family from in Italy and when did they arrive?
Speaker 2:
you know where is your family from in italy and when did they arrive?
Speaker 2:
Oh, um, my father's side is from uh arezzo, uh, and it's actually from a little like a suburb of there.
Speaker 2:
It's actually in the countryside called foiana de la kiana uh, really tiny.
Speaker 2:
And uh, my mother is from uh li, a major seaport there on the West Coast, and my father came here as a little boy, maybe three or four years old, probably in let me think I don't want to take too long to do the math it was probably in the 20s and he grew up here in uh hamlet, connecticut, just outside new haven, went back to italy with the ital, with the american army, um, pushing uh the nazis out of, out of italy, worked his way up the peninsula and when he got to livorno he came down with malaria and he ended up being uh stationed, you know, sort of permanently at a base they set up there as the army made its way up farther on.
Speaker 2:
And that's where he met my mother, and she was a local girl whose cousin was working at the army base. They had local Italian girls working there. When he would drive home my mom's aunt, he would see my mom and eventually they got to know each other and they ended up getting married there in Italy and he shipped out with the Americans when they all came home and she came over on a ship full of war brides right after the after the war.
Speaker 1:
Wow, that's so interesting. So I think you are the first person whose mom was an American war bride. I have a good friend in England and his mom was a war bride but his dad was in England so and a similar kind of story, you know he came back and did that but I didn't realize that they now they had a ship specifically for war brides to come back.
Speaker 2:
Any ships, my research for my book. I was fascinated. Thousands of war brides there really were and I forget the operation name, they had a name for it too that the War Department had, where just many of these ships that were, you know, converted from, you know, whatever they might be, passenger liners, crew ship, you know, for troops ships, you know, and they had many of these ships coming over full of war brides. As a matter of fact, we had a little clipping somewhere in our things. You know, war brides arrived in New York, the ship that my mom was on. So yeah, there was quite an operation there. All these war brides. I didn't realize so many American GIs married girls over there.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I didn't either. So did they ever explain? Was it difficult for them to get married? Did they have to go through a lot of stuff to get to marry her in Italy?
Speaker 2:
They never told me anything like that. But looking at reading some of the other little stories that people posted online because I did some research about you know how did these people get married? It didn't take too much, you know, like permission from your commanding officer and a couple of papers and that was it.
Speaker 1:
Wow, that's interesting. I didn't realize that. I would have thought it would have been much more difficult. You know, I've seen a couple of movies, not so much about Italy but about Japan, and it seemed to be difficult in Japan if you wanted to marry. But I suppose that was a different situation. Who knows how they did that kind of stuff? Who knows how they did that kind of stuff? So do you know what your? I'm going to start with your mom's family, because she lived there.
Speaker 2:
Do you know what her father did or what? Her background was? Really interesting. He worked with a lot of scrap metal places but during the wars and, matter of fact, even in between, uh, he did salvage diving, you know, with the big helmet, and uh, the whole thing. And I have pictures of him sitting, you know, on the deck with some of his friends and they got their stuff on. They're holding their, their helmets and uh, so yeah, they would go down and pump air into the, you know, ships and try to raise them and things like that.
Speaker 1:
So that was I always thought, when I was a kid, that was I always thought that would be so cool to do, you know yeah, that is cool. I didn't even realize they were doing it back then, um, but you know, not that way that they were actually, you know, raising the ships. Uh, you know, I know they did. They do it now. Uh, yeah, that's a line of work. I haven't heard from Italy yet. Farmer, artisan or something Right, or you know farmer, yeah right, and how about your dad's family Do?
Speaker 2:
you know what their industry was, or occupation? No, I really didn't ask my dad about that and his father died young Matter of fact, that was one of the things during the Depression. You, you know, my parents were older. My father was 50 when, when he had me, um, so, uh, he pretty much was supporting his family. You know, that was it eighth grade and he was out working and um, and he didn't tell me too much about his dad, um, so I didn't know him, so I couldn't really speak to that yeah, I was going to ask you about that too, but since you, I didn't want to get too personal.
Speaker 2:
But since you brought it up, I was saying, yeah, I think looks pretty young to have a dad the same age as my dad yeah, yes, so they were both old, you know, and my mother was 10 years younger, so she had me when she was 40 and I'm 14 years older, any younger than my sister.
Speaker 1:
So I was either a surprise or, you know, a little surprise package there in their you know later years well, I think my dad was too, because his uh, his sister was, uh, his next up sister was, I think, seven years difference, which isn't a big deal. But his oldest brother was much, much, much older than him, like 18, 19 years, 20 years or something like that. My mom's family, my grandmother, was pregnant every two years, 18 months or something like that. She had 11. My dad had five. So big difference there. So what did your dad do after he came back from the war?
Speaker 2:
Well, he was a baker. He was a baker before the war, baker after the war and always worked at little shops and just you know, wagering and baker.
Speaker 1:
And how could, how'd you stay so thin? Your father was a baker.
Speaker 2:
You know, I was a chunky little guy because my mom cooked great stuff and my father came on with the baked goods, and it wasn't until I was a teenager that I said I think I'm going to try to stretch out a little. Oh, I think my body just stretched out. I shot up. I'm tall like 6'2", so I think I stretched out a little.
Speaker 1:
So you know, my uncle was a baker in Corona and it's funny because he and I didn't know this. I knew they made pizza there but I was able to get the recipe from the nephew of the owner of the bakery, to get to get the pizza recipe. And you know, this is like 50, 60 years after my uncle's making pizzas. I was able to get the recipe and I only got it because the guy promised he would never give it away to anybody but the family and he said well, you have to give it to you because your uncle was baking it. Did he work at a big bakery or just worked at a local place?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, a couple of jobs that he had. One of them was just at a small little bakery. You know that was, you know it was small. But then once or twice he had a job at one of the it was called Grand Way back then, sort of a stop and shop. So he was in one of in the bakery department there too.
Speaker 1:
And so now. So now, what did? Did they originally in Connecticut or did they, you know, go from New York to Connecticut, or what was their migration path?
Speaker 2:
Pretty much straight to New Haven. You know my father's family and he grew up here in Hamden and after the war, when he was married, they stayed here in Hamden, as I have too.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and you know, I don't think people realize that there's, that there's a big Italian community in New Haven, right?
Speaker 2:
Or was I heard of New Haven Pizza, pretty famous around it. They get great ratings. Matter of fact, pepe's here in New Haven. On the wall they have all pictures of the stars that have been there Frank Sinatra and whatnot who come to New Haven after they've been in New York or wherever.
Speaker 1:
Oh, that's, that's. That's cool. I didn't. I didn't realize that they didn't know that at all. So now have, have you, what kind of research have you done with the family? Have you done DNA and things like that?
Speaker 2:
No, you know, I have not done DNA and I contacted, you know, and I, you know, as you may have read on the back of the book, I do stay in touch with my family in Italy quite a bit. On my other side I have a cousin who I used to spend summers with with her family and we're very close, who I used to spend summers with her family and were very close, but on my father's side. As far as chasing that back, I contacted his family and talked to some of the relatives and they tried going back and it reached a dead end with my father's father because he had been an orphan and the orphanage where the records were burnt down and so that was kind of a dead end. But I haven't really put a great deal of effort into trying to, you know, trace.
Speaker 2:
I know your site is a genealogy and maybe I'll start to start down that path next, but at this point I was just writing the book.
Speaker 1:
Well, you know the interesting thing about doing the DNA. You know you'd probably be able to find out if you did it, because you would probably wind up, you know, finding some second cousins or third cousins who might know the story or know where you're from. I know several people who have done that and that's how they found their roots. In fact, the interview I just did was really interesting, really interesting, because I know who her father was and and she used to walk through the streets of, uh, east harlem in new york trying to find people that look like him, because, because she knew that he was from that, you know, from the neighborhood, um, but yeah, it's, it's uh, so many people have found people like that. Um, you know, through that path.
Speaker 2:
Um, uh, they didn't even know that they had half brother and half sister met each other. Uh, they were both here in America and it turned out they had so many similar traits. They were both into music, they both were performers it's amazing. And then I saw them perform together. Uh, so yeah, so things can happen when you do that.
Speaker 1:
Well, yeah, and I have a. I have a good friend who found his older brother that he never knew existed. The father never talked about it. He thinks he believes that you know the father had the affair before he married his mother, um, that you know the father had the affair before he married his mother, um, and you know, back then you know we're talking 70 years ago back then they would just hand the kids off sometimes, you know there was no paperwork. I have another friend uh, she has no paperwork. She doesn't know how she wound up in the parents hands wow, amazing yeah, and she's, she was.
Speaker 1:
She thinks that her father you know similar situation some, you know young girl was having a baby. Our parents couldn't have children and they just gave them the baby because, she asked, she didn't have a birth certificate. Wow, yeah, it's very different from nowadays. Oh, much, much different. My kids are adopted. It's very different from nowadays oh, much, much different. My kids are adopted and it's much different. They're checking you out all the time, for you know every little thing, which which, of course, is fine, you know it's fair enough to do that. But yeah, I think in my friend's case, you know, his brother was just handed off to a couple and that was the end of it. So what's the book about? Let's talk about the book a little bit.
Speaker 2:
Okay, now that you know a little bit about my mom, you'll see how this was inspired by them, but it's very loosely based on them because it's quite a drama and a story of survival. Loosely based on them because it's it goes. It's quite a drama and a story of survival, which is definitely, um, her story too. But the book it's about a girl, um 19 ish, uh, growing up in Livorno. So you know, I tried to use a lot of the things that I had experienced and I had seen from you know, my summers there and my and a lot of the things from my mom's story too. But again, uh, it's, it's definitely a fiction, um, but the girl is growing up there. She's trying to survive there in Livorno, which is occupied by the Germans at the time, and the Americans and the British are bombing the heck out of it. It's one of the most bombed cities in Europe, certainly in Italy, because it was a commercial port and it was very vital to the Germans to bring in their supply. So she's trying to survive there and the Germans loot her home, which is actually a little story in there about.
Speaker 2:
That actually happened to my mom about, first of all, the bombings that she used to describe sky being black with with planes, you know, the Americans or the British planes, it's just they came over, you know, in waves. She would tell me these are like the direct stories from her and you know, running to bomb shelters and trying to survive, and telling me about the rats. She couldn't look at squirrels here in America and I said why? She said because they remind me of the rats in the bomb shelters, you know. So it's amazing, these like connections and the PTSD kind of thing you know. And the Germans loot this.
Speaker 2:
The protagonist who I named after my mom, nicola, and the Germans loot her home, they take her sewing machine and now you know she's a seamstress. So now they're really hard up and she finds work with a countess on Montenero, which is in Livorno but it's a hill. So Livorno is beautiful. About Livorno, you could be right down in the ocean and you can go up in the hills and it's beautiful up there, beautiful views, and so she has a villa up in Montanero.
Speaker 2:
So she works for her and her chauffeur brings Nicola back and forth to her home. And while she's there, of course I had to put some romance in there. The Contessa's grandson about Nikola's age, you know falls in love with her.
Speaker 2:
But Nikola has a boyfriend who's in the army and so you know she's pining for him and she's trying to not get involved with this other fellow and through a very series of you know happenstance meetings she ends up being getting involved with the partisans. And that's where I did some research about women who became known as stafette. And if you were a stafette you could be sort of a runner for you know undercover, you know plans or even weapons and things, and of course many women actually.
Speaker 2:
I didn't know this either I found out in my research that there were many Italian women also just literally as fighters in the partisans, which is not something that got passed down in history and is starting to come out more now. And you look at the pictures, you see them carrying guns. But Nicola doesn't get involved in that way, but she does get involved in the staff, at a sort of courier kind of thing, and that leads her into all sorts of danger and close calls. And you know, I don't want to give away too much, and so that's kind of where the book goes. And if you know about my mom is you know about the war bride, I don't want to give away any endings, but that's kind of where we're heading to with the book.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that's cool. You know I've done two books, one of them on research and one about, you know, my banking career, and I'd love to be able to do a historical fiction. But I'm having trouble, like you know, building the characters like you just described and things like that. But I I have an interesting story with, um, my fourth great grandmother, who was the that the, the duchess of capricota in malise, and um, she left the family with a french soldier, french french officer, um, probably the late 1700s or something like that, and then she came back and she supposedly married a doctor and then, after the war I know, she died in Paris in like, I think, 1812 or 1815 or something like that. But I'd love to do some kind of story like that, but you know I'm not I'm not that I'm not good enough writer or um, I don't know what the right word is but to be able to build the characters like you just described, you know that's really cool to be able to do that sure you know what you got to do is.
Speaker 2:
I don't know if this is good advice, but I just tried to entertain myself and ask myself what would I want to know about, what makes this guy tick, you know, and how would he change if this or that happened to him? And I didn't set out, you know, I said when I first started it was I told some friends about my mother's story over dinner a few years ago and the wife said, oh, that's a hot genre If you write a historical fiction about, you know, romance there in Italy. And I said, geez, you know I didn't, you know I didn't put any pressure on myself. Let me just go home and just see what happens. And little by little, just like I said, I had the bare bones of it because of my mother's story and I just kind of filled it in with this whole thing of just entertain yourself, arne, and don't try to think you have to write a book or anything.
Speaker 2:
And it led me down the road of some research, you know, ask some relatives and um, and it just started going, you know. So if you take it from there, you never know where you might end up there, bob, because you should try it.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, maybe I should try it or just, you know, just start, just start writing things slowly. So how old, how old was your mom when, uh, when the war was going? So how old was your mom when the war was going?
Speaker 2:
She was probably around that. Let's see, my father was probably 30 and she was 20.
Speaker 1:
So yeah, right around the age of the Nikola, our protagonist. Yeah, yeah, you know my oldest uncle from my mother's family. They went through the war but they were in Torito Barre. They used to see the port get bombed but they weren't close enough to get hit, but they, they used to run into the fields and so, so where did where did they, where did they all go when this bombing was going on? Did they just go on the ground? Did they try to go up the hill or would they? Where'd they go?
Speaker 2:
you know there were bomb shelters, uh, that you know had been, you know the basements of, uh, the municipal buildings here and there, and you know the sirens would go. You know they would tell me the sirens would go off and they, you know if they were in the city, but you know they were. So they called it high altitude precision bombing the americans.
Speaker 2:
When I ended, you know, I looked in my research and it's definitely not precision, because they ended up all over the place, you know, in the city, and blew up so many folks' houses. Matter of fact, I was reading another book about some fellow whose family went through a similar thing down towards Naples, and he mentions in his book the stream of people coming from other places and he mentions Livorno that people had been bombed, a lot of people had to leave. Matter of fact, you know, and I didn't talk to my mom about this In my research I found that they created what was called a black zone and I even saw pictures of it on Google Images, the sign Achtung, you know, and it'll be written in German, but then the bottom will be written in Italian and it would say anyone beyond this point will be shot on sight, and so they kind of cordoned off, so to speak, a large section of the city. So those folks just went out to the countryside and whomever would take them in that's something, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
And so your dad gets there and I forget. If you mentioned you may have mentioned it already, but if you didn't, so how exactly did they meet and under what circumstances?
Speaker 2:
Well, he took ill and he was in the infirmary or whatever there, because they started making a base there in Gournaud and the rest as they moved on, they would establish bases Camp Derby, it's called now it's still there um, and so he was sick and and, uh, he ended up staying there and being stationed there and, um, my, uh, my mom's aunt lived with her.
Speaker 2:
Would would got a job there as many of the italian girls did um at the base, whatever their jobs were, you know, cleaning, cooking, serving whatever. And um, when my dad, part of his one of his duties was with the jeep to drive home uh, my mom's aunt, but when you know who was close to my mom's age and when he would do that, he would see my mom and, uh, I don't know the details of how they struck up a romance, but eventually they did.
Speaker 1:
Boy, that's a great job in the war zone A volunteer for it.
Speaker 1:
Exactly, exactly. Well, my cousin got off the plane in Vietnam and they asked who knows how to cook. He raised his hand and then they told him you know, we'll go over here and make this or something. He said I don't know how, I don't know how to do that. And the sergeant said you said you know how to cook. He said I figured it was better than getting shot at in the jungle. The sergeant laughed and he said you know what? You're smarter than anybody else I have here? And they taught him how to cook. He spent a year in the the officer's mess in Saigon.
Speaker 2:
Well, you know my father. They knew he was a baker. Matter of fact that was. He was a tech sergeant. You know a little T tech, you know, for running the bakers and making all the bread for the whole base. But it's funny because the guy in the in the book, tony I named him after my father Also the Tony in the book, he gets, he's a fighting soldier and gets wounded and he's there in Livorno in the hospital but on the base, but it's kind of a Catch-22 sort of thing. If you remember that book or that movie, the commander, he ends up starting to cook personal dinners for the commander Gnocchi alla Carbonata and the commander says he won't sign off on him being okay now, now, now that he's healed his shoulder, you know, because he doesn't want to let him go, uh, and tony's like, you know, he's feeling very guilty because he's my brothers are still fighting and I'm here making, uh, you know, dinner for the, for the co that's funny.
Speaker 1:
that's funny, my uncle. He enlisted in the army and he was blind in one eye. So when they gave him the eye chart test and he read it and then they said switch. And he switched hands but not eyes, and he read the chart with the same eye. So when he was trying to shoot he was looking down the barrel with the wrong eye and they said, no, you have to look that way, so I can't see out of that eye. So they were going to discharge him. And then they found out, since he was fluent in Italian, they sent them to North Africa to guard Italian prisoners. And he would. He would eat with the Italian prisoners because they were getting pasta and they were the Americans were getting stuff in cans. So he used to go eat with the Italians and bonded with, you know, bonded with them until until after the war. Yeah, Some really interesting stories out of, well, I guess, all wars, I suppose. So what do you teach?
Speaker 2:
Oh, it's funny that I teach US history so I do teach the war and but I have a background in law so I also teach a criminal law class and a civil law class and I coach the mock trial team.
Speaker 1:
Oh cool, that's neat. That's neat. I always liked history. That was my favorite subject. I couldn't do math no-transcript. And it's fascinating too. So I have to ask you as a history teacher when we were growing up, we covered I'm 73. So now there's another 63 years added on to history classes. How do you guys cope with all of that stuff?
Speaker 2:
That's been an issue with the curriculum. We've had to pare it back, we've moved. I used to teach from Native Americans in Columbus all the way up to present day. Now I start after the Civil War at Reconstruction, and they've moved that the prior years down to the middle school before they get to me. So yeah, you're right. And every year I mean just in the past 20 years, with the post 9-11 and the wars in Iraq, I mean that's a whole month of studies. Wars in Iraq and Iran, I mean Afghanistan and you know. So you're absolutely right. It gets harder. And again people a lot of times say oh, you're a history teacher and they start asking me these questions. And I'm like I didn't go to school for history. You know, I was an economics major and a lawyer in a prior life. So I teach a very sort of survey course in American history.
Speaker 1:
So there's a lot of folks out there that are history buffs, that know a lot more of the details than I do. Well, yeah, and you know, and through this thing, I, you know, I've looked back on certain Italian things, and you know, like you know, I have a blog with a list of Italian Medal of Honor winners, which is which is fascinating in and of itself, but, and you may or may not know this, but I was shocked to find that there were seven Italians at the Battle of the Little Bighorn and the one survivor was was an Italian, giovanni Martini, who used the name John Martin in America, and he was the bugler, and Custer sent him to go tell the other general, the other colonel, what was going on, and he was the only guy who survived the 7th Cavalry attack, because he wasn't there.
Speaker 2:
Wow, did not know that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, look him up, it's a really interesting story. And he later became a. I think he worked in the. If I remember correctly, he worked in the subways in New York City. He eventually wound up in New York City um and uh. And a fascinating story also because he, um, he was a uh, uh, an orphan in italy. He was left in the wheel eventually. Originally, what was he? He was left in the wheel.
Speaker 1:
You know, in italy they have those, uh, you know, in the well, I don't know how far back it goes, but it was pretty recent still they would have a little door in the church and you could put the baby in it and then you left, turn it yeah definitely heard of that, so, but now I got the connection left in the wheel but yeah, right, yeah, uh, and he and he, he did eventually, uh, he did eventually find his father, but he didn't want to have anything to do with him because he was left an orphan.
Speaker 1:
But you know, what they used to do is they would leave, like pin a ribbon or a medal or something on the child so that if they ever wanted to come back they could say I'm the mother or I'm the father who left the child with the yellow ribbon, or whatever. Come back they could say I'm the mother, I'm the father who left the child with the, you know, the yellow ribbon or whatever. Uh, uh, really interesting stuff. The the way a little weird to leave a child in the door like that, but I guess that's the way they did it, you know you reminded me of one of the stories I found when I was researching there in livorno.
Speaker 2:
Um, they the americans, you know trying to dislodge the germans. They hit or it might have been the british they hit an orphanage there and about 40 kids were killed. That's one of the biggest tragedies there in livorno during the war. Um, and you know, because the nuns ran it and they would take in, that's where they would get the kids just dropped off well, it's like monte casino they bombed it for nothing.
Speaker 1:
The other interesting story I heard about the south, which I didn't know, with somebody they interviewed, that mussolini moved um a lot of the dissidents to. He didn't put them in prison per se, but he removed them to towns in the South. There were whole towns of partisans that just lived there until after the war. For years they lived there. They had to stay there, but the way the guy explained it was there were no fences or walls or anything like that. They just knew that they had to stay there and that's where they stayed.
Speaker 2:
They're a bunch of partisans, almost like he's creating a brigade for them. It's funny if they wanted to break out of there.
Speaker 1:
Uh, you know yeah, yeah, my friend andy's mom, the one who I told you was the english war bride uh, she was actually. She was actually in the square when, when they, uh, when they did away with Mussolini. That's quite a scene. He's an interesting character because had he not done all of this crazy stuff with Hitler and all of this fascist stuff, he actually got things working in Italy.
Speaker 2:
That's what they say. Yeah, it's too bad Ethiopia and those things. It's too ethiopia and those things. It's too bad that he kind of did those things too yeah and hitler. You're right. Um, so yeah, I haven't researched a lot about mussolini. I have read about and I I do, for my students show the comparison, his rise to power and hitler, and I tell him, you know, mussolini is the original. You know, hitler got his playbook from Mussolini. I teach them, you know but people don't.
Speaker 1:
People don't realize that, people don't know that that Mussolini was was the original fascist.
Speaker 2:
And it was Hitler's hero. You know, hitler looked up to him.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, because he was well, I don't know if ahead of the curve is the right terminology, but that's the way it was. But he was building a lot and it's still some stuff. When we were there the last time, they were showing us some of the buildings in Bari fantastic buildings that he built and all that Art Deco stuff and everything like that. I mean it's amazing. You know the things that he was having erected. But you know he started that goofy war in Ethiopia for some strange reason and that was kind of the beginning of the downfall. I guess I want to ask you you went back every year when you were a kid.
Speaker 2:
Quite every year, maybe every other year. Two, I guess I want to ask you, did you? Went back every year when you were a kid? Quite every year, maybe every other year. Two, three years. I probably ended up a total of five or six times going back. And after I was 19, I hadn't gone back. And about five years ago I went back again and it was totally different. I thought I was going to find, you know, that quaint Italy that I did, the little Cinquecentos flying, driving all around and the little three-wheel sort of motorcycle vehicles I don't know if you've ever seen those. They kind of have a cab and then they have a little bit of a bed on them, but, you know, and the ambulance is dee-doo, dee-doo. You know, I thought I was going to see all that again, do you know?
Speaker 2:
I thought I was going to see all that again, and it's so west and I don't say westernized, they are in the west, but I mean so americanized and modern, and everybody's on their phones and everything, supermarkets, you know, and uh, it's total, it's, it's not, it's not the same.
Speaker 1:
Well, livorno, the. The cruise ships go into there, right?
Speaker 2:
yes, cruise ships do stop in there. Yes, because yeah, it's pretty. It's a beautiful little place actually to visit because they got a canal going through Livorno and they call it Little Venice sometimes because beautiful turquoise canal with all the little wooden boats. That's almost the same. The boats aren't quite all wooden but there's still a few of them and the canal is set well down from street level. So there's this beautiful old stone walls that you know line it and it winds its way through the city and they have stone steps that go down every once in a while on a corner that you can put down to the canal.
Speaker 2:
So I was always fascinated by the canal when I was a kid and just going down there and wondering what's down there in that deep, underneath that water, when I was a little kid, was afraid to fall into it because it's beautiful and green, you know, kind of like a, you know turquoise or emerald, but um, but it's opaque, you know as a canal, and uh, I always wondered what went on underneath that water well, you know things, things, things were bigger when we were kids.
Speaker 1:
Right, you know, you go places back from your child and you went boy. I thought that was a lot bigger than I remember.
Speaker 2:
My neighborhood. Yeah, here in Hamden too, I had the same experience.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I haven't been there. We've been to Rome, of course, and we went to some of the hometowns, but we said, if we go next year, we've never been to the Pisa or Florence or Venice or those places. We've mostly been in the South. So we said we have to visit the real cultural places. This time I've been to Milan would work, but didn't get to see you know that much.
Speaker 2:
walk past the opera house, saw the duomo and went to work, you know right there or no pieces right up the road, uh, you know half an hour probably, and uh, then you go inland a little ways and you've got you know a rate, so and uh, you know all this yeah, so uh, you could see a lot of places right around there.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, that's what they say that's what, that's, that's what they say, so you could see a lot of places right around there. Yeah, yeah, that's what they say. That's what they say. So you know, we'll have to think about that. And how about your kids? What did they think when they went back?
Speaker 2:
You know they didn't go back with me. I ended up going back without them because they're adults and doing their own thing. So, but you know, I brought them back pictures. Um, so, uh, but you know I brought them back pictures. I'd love. You know, that's what we talk about sometimes is the whole bunch of us going back? Uh, you know you should we, we went.
Speaker 1:
we went with our two, our kids. Our kids are young because they're adopted, and so we were, like you know, in our 40s, uh, and I knew my son would like it, because he's he likes history and museums and all that kind of stuff my daughter I wasn't so sure about, but no, they really really enjoyed it. They were, I guess, 26 and 25 when we went, but they really really had a good time doing it. So you'll have to yeah, you'll have to drag them back there.
Speaker 2:
That's what we've been talking about. Maybe find a little villa there, because they do that. They rent out villas when you bring a whole family and everybody splits it and it's not too bad as far as an economical speaking. So yeah, so hopefully we will.
Speaker 1:
Well, you know, in the food and you know the rest, we found the restaurants to be really reasonable over there. Of course, you don't have to tip. There's no tax, there's no tip. So you know you're just paying for the meal, which which makes it a lot better. And most of the places you know, unless you're in a really really big city uh, like you said, the b&b's or the villas and stuff they're really pretty reasonable compared to, compared to here. You know the. The biggest, you know the biggest part, is the plane fare, because that just keeps going up and up and up.
Speaker 2:
Exactly.
Speaker 1:
So before we go, where can people find the book?
Speaker 2:
It's on Amazon and if you search Nikola's story, I have a little picture of the book I put on your website. We could put it up again. You just go on Amazon and search Nikola's story and it'll pop up. It's only $9.99.
Speaker 1:
Oh great, yeah, that's really reasonable. And yeah, I'll put all the links up there and all of that so people could find it easy. Are you going to write another one or are you done?
Speaker 2:
But all these people keep calling me up. The thing about writing is all sorts of folks, not just friends and family, but friends of friends and colleagues. It's like these ripples that went out. Now they're bouncing back and all these folks are contacting me and that's just been so rewarding and so nice and a lot of them. They all keep saying we want a sequel, we want to know what happens to her. I need a little break.
Speaker 1:
I guess you're going to have to do it then. All right, well, thanks again. I really appreciate you taking the time.
Speaker 2:
Sure, it was a great pleasure, bob, speaking with you. I enjoyed it.
