We are lifting up with Marie and her works of art into another dimension: The essence and power of her works is generating volatile states of suspension and allowing the spectators to witness these precarious equilibriums in awe while leaving and allowing the open space for interpretation in a collective awe. Marie takes us on her story how she uses physical and natural phenomena and the power of observation to create poetic moments. In her literally boundless experiments at the edges, she leads her audience beyond their usual perception, telling her very own story while leaving a bit of romantic freedom to the viewers to decide for themselves, how deep they are ready to go.
The motivation for Marie Lienhard's artistic practice is the fascination for the elasticity of our self- and externally controlled perceptual behaviour, which she questions using the limits of physical laws and a constant search for fragile equilibriums. Installation, virtual reality, performance, photography and drawing are the starting point of her internationally represented works and exhibitions.
We are lifting up with Marie and her works of art into another dimension: The essence and power of her works is generating volatile states of suspension and allowing the spectators to witness these precarious equilibriums in awe while leaving and allowing the open space for interpretation in a collective awe. Marie takes us on her story how she uses physical and natural phenomena and the power of observation to create poetic moments. In her literally boundless experiments at the edges, she leads her audience beyond their usual perception, telling her very own story while leaving a bit of romantic freedom to the viewers to decide for themselves, how deep they are ready to go.
The motivation for Marie Lienhard's artistic practice is the fascination for the elasticity of our self- and externally controlled perceptual behaviour, which she questions using the limits of physical laws and a constant search for fragile equilibriums. Installation, virtual reality, performance, photography and drawing are the starting point of her internationally represented works and exhibitions.
Welcome back at the SeeArts podcast. This is your host, Fabian Seewald and today we're going to lift up together with Marie Lienhard. We're diving into her works of art and how she's challenging physical phenomena and transforms them into poetic pieces of art. Fasten your seat belt and enjoy the flight Welcome to the SeeArts podcast we build a bridge between Arts and Business want to inspire you to see arts Welcome to a new episode of the SeeArtrs podcast and today after long conversations on zoom I'm all excited to have an inspiring artist here with me today in a face to face meeting and actually we are today in our Kulturschutzgebiet with Marie Lienhard Lienhard. She grew up in France and England and hear from Stuttgart today with dive a bit into her history. In her words, she explores the ellipticity of natural phenomenon and also challenges and actually let the let the audience witness her perspective shifting or visual shifting ideas of her art work. I got actually to know her work on Instagram, the logics of gold. And I'm all excited to also explore this one into virtual reality reality in a bit. It was taken in in Stuttgart. And the idea was to have a giant golden balloon flying into space. And we're going to learn more about this artwork with Marie in a bit. So yeah, let's welcome Marie from Stuttgart to the world.
Marie Lienhard :Thank you. You've done your research so then we can stop now.
Fabian Seewald :I think there's so much more. Yeah, thanks so much for for taking the time. Let's start today. With a quote that really intrigued me when I was listening to Mary's TEDx talk, it's by Gastone Batchelor. And it says the following: "In the world of dreams, we do not fly because we have wings, but we have wings, because we have flown, the principle of flying and dreams is deep. This is the principle which imagination must find A really moving piece - why did you choose this one? What is your relation to dreams and imagination?
Marie Lienhard :I think I would start by repeating it again because once you just start with a new idea, it takes a bit of time to get into it. So what Gustin Bashar says, in the world of dreams, we do not fly because we have wings, but we have wings because we have flown and if you think of dreaming of flying in your dream You don't actually have wings. And he refers to the fact that you have the feeling that you have that you can fly from from these dreams. And in this book, where I got a quote from he also talks about very analytical people who normally are very reasonable and would not do anything too crazy. But they are so convinced by this experience that it is a must actually i in the spirit was so strong, I felt so strongly must actually be possible, and talks about one person who actually tried to down his decades. crutches because, no, it's really in the world of dreams that this is possible I miss what he refers to as this. being important for the imagination is really this. Going beyond what is actually possible and through the world Imagination as it happens in the dreams that you experience something which is so convincing, that our imagination also extends so far that we are reading that as a word like we could, you can almost feel it, you can always be in it through your imagination and through the imagination, then things can become real. So what I find really fascinating is really, this dream of the impossible, and the feeling that it's real. And through that feeling, and that experience of then putting into practice, and going beyond our normal limited thinking that this is the way that it is that's the way that this is and there's no way of changing this. I think there's so much more something that's happened now in the corona crisis as well. That we have made experience it is possible to imagine the world differently and we have had to respond to the situation and we have had to make changes in the planet to start Breathing something which we've been saying for years, it's impossible. The systems are too complicated. We can't change it. And then suddenly, nothing is also done, which is very, very positive.
Fabian Seewald :That's a way of thinking differently has been opened up. Yeah, no way there is an absolute truth, but also relative truth. And I think this relative truth could totally challenge by what happened and, and how we could actually reimagine and rethink how we've been doing things and how we thought this is set. This is kind of how the system is running. And it can be the other way round starting from flying crazy around the planet, but also from the small things that we all experienced. Where we found our, our sweet spot at home where we kind of get a new, a new bonding a new belonging within the family that it's sometimes that it's not this outer outer world, but sometimes the inner world that we could reflect and actually feel again
Marie Lienhard :Time read is what's been very important to have time to sleep. And
Fabian Seewald :I actually recently started noting down my dreams, which is also powerful thing because Yeah, actually, we have some six to eight hours sleep sometimes more, sometimes less. But there's also so many crazy things going on if you note them down actually, you're also teaching yourself that this part of your subconscious, how can you get more ideas and also more, get get to know you a bit better and that's a fun, fun, new ritual that I started doing recently.
Marie Lienhard :Now this lately,
Fabian Seewald :was taking the first part of the quote, but now the second part, the principle of flying in dreams is deep. This is the principle which imagination must find. Yeah, this is something you also tried to do. into your work of art to spark these are the sorts of imagination this possibility of imagination. Absolutely, actually, in all my work, that's something that I
Marie Lienhard :try I try and create an experience with with which makes this kind of recognition or this kind of feeling graspable out of the daily routine out of the way that we understand the way that the world works. For example, I have done if you already know this piece, it's, I've managed to overcome gravity through the law of attraction. I've taken two very strong magnets and place them very close to each other and stop them from touching each other and connecting through Having them held into the walls and through the force of attraction that they have between them, they fly. So something which we think actually law of gravity is given is given that moment of say, maybe there are other possibilities. And what the project logics of gold, it's also in that case, it's using very immersive technology to also create that kind of experience. Maybe I'll just talk briefly about what your project is about. a helium balloon two meters diameter of this takeoff, on a helium balloon, this 360 degree camera to GPS system in case one that connects to satellite the other one too. Mobile phone must
Fabian Seewald :go to people get it.
Unknown Speaker :Um
Marie Lienhard :we covered it with a whole group of very, very courageous people were covered in gold plated gold plated and also put some gold inside the balloon. The reason why I chose to do this is because gold actually comes from the universe. It's what happens when it's created in the moment where neutron stars that stars collide and create an explosion in this huge explosion. That's where gold gets created. And through meteorites, that's how gold right so decided to go symbolically or even not just symbolically going places back where I'd actual developer to put it into back into its original context within our relationship.
Fabian Seewald :And
Marie Lienhard :then I let go of the balloon, and it's three to 35 kilometers. So we passed out of the atmosphere of the Earth which is and 13 kilometres and so much and into the stratosphere past the dead zone where we have no possibility of surviving and the camera took the images really 360 degrees the balloon exploded and spread it's cold and then came back down when we found it in nature reserve. In the middle of some very, very tall plants in the middle of water. There was a little river that was kind of going past it was very lucky that we even found it. The GPS sent an absolute Precise coordinates. That meant that we actually did find it. And then I took out the images that the camera had recorded. And then the entire flight, it takes about an hour and a half to go up in about half an hour, 45 minutes come back down, which if we were experiencing it live, that would be really very, very enjoyable. But it's a bit long to be looking at it. Because obviously, once you get up to a certain height, it's all very similar. So I just cut slices out of it. I didn't change anything. I didn't change the sound. I didn't change the colors. It's really, for me to important and it's really about the way that this technology is capable of even going out there and taking these images, it's going to place where pretty much no one else can go apart from a few people you've actually done that physically. And so it's really about a recording of the fiscal situation. And making it accessible to every person to every normal human being, to make that experience that would otherwise be impossible without the technology and 3d virtual reality. It's totally immersive because it's really you can really turn. Wherever you turn, you're really seeing what the camera recorded the lines below or above yourself, and you're totally surrounded by the image. And it's very surprising how powerful that actually is and how real it feels. And that's something that
Unknown Speaker :gives us as this point also says the possibility to experience something that is so powerful that we really can integrate it and take it further. Yeah, it's really what you were describing as this visual shifted. You're kind of taking us into a place where we could normally not go in this also
Fabian Seewald :changed our relationship with Planet Earth in a way like to say hey, we have to take care of it but in a way also making us feel small but connected that's what I felt that we're all in this together and from the outer space it's so it's so tiny and then especially the idea of 10 giving doing something bad it's not just taking from it but getting back that's that's what intrigued me when I was looking at starting Stuttgart because normally I think I get to know a bit of the things that happened in the city. But so that was really like a wow.
Marie Lienhard :I'm glad that we're connecting right now. And I get to know him even deeper into how how you did the piece. What was very interesting about the experiences that first we take off when eating Planet Earth and everything gets smaller and smaller, and you really have this feeling that you're actually really huge. It's like my niece described as there's just been two huge eyes that are floating near very this overview effect, which is very impressive, but then when we fall back down we landed in these two plants and really from the bottom and suddenly the companies like being life and and it's really like the experience of being like a bird or even further being able to go even further away than a bird and then being magnetic actually a tiny little part of that whole image which is
Fabian Seewald :cool so like within 300 seconds you you kind of dive into like being gigantic be like in outer space back into being like on a level with some ends and yeah, and that's also fun products. It's all at all it's possible. This Ls desity is also referred to and how how are the first place did you get this interest for physics challenging the laws of physics but also combining it with artistic installations in between from drawings to using immersive technology. Where did this interest come from? Come in.
Marie Lienhard :I don't know, it's well, the way that I developed my projects. But with virtual reality flight, it's something that I saw the first I sort of discovered the first video and saw that it was possible and desperately really wanted to do something artistic with it, because it was, there was a hamburger that I'm gonna play my baby. And I figured we could do something else with that. And guess what, what always comes back with me is the situation's of things instability, like moments where, like flying falling and levitating situations that are between they're just very small short moments of and this is, this is what fascinates me. I think it has to do also do with my My biography that I've experienced a lot of changes, I've also experienced a lot of Southern changes that have ripped me out of an image that I had in the world, which I thought was absolutely non questionable.
Unknown Speaker :And
Marie Lienhard :which has just led led to changes in my personal biography, which led to great opening through going to live in England for many years. And then I experienced that again very, very powerfully when I went traveling and spent two years by myself on the road and found a very, very enjoyable discovery that when you're out there by yourself, first of all, the world is just full of amazing stuff and amazing people and really, if you don't go out there you can have, you can also get scared of what's happening out there and how it is and then you should actually just pay for it. In your little cocoon, and once you actually go out and meet people and really are involved in the different communities that you need this very comforting and very beautiful experiences of being actually in the world, which is just full of such different realities, which you can't cannot possibly imagine if you're not actually in that environment, and that pull out also two very different parts of yourself. And so you've made that experience as well. But you also discover parts of yourself, which you would never discover otherwise. And that's really amazing. And also this feeling that whatever you do with whether that morning you decide to go left or right or straight on or turn back or talk to one person or respond to someone else, that that totally changes after your very moment in that case, because you're so free and that experience is something which I
Unknown Speaker :think
Marie Lienhard :It's so vital to not getting stuck into, in and also into like preconceptions into ideas into fears into that stop us from actually having the courage and having the trust to just jump into the swimming
Fabian Seewald :need to talk about these, these lead slips of faith just so important sometimes we, even if we don't know if even if we, we think we might defend it, we go into the unexpected because in a way as well that's what the human existence might be about to explore even further, not just the outside but also the inside and sometimes to explore the inside you have to go go out and nature and physics are definitely some things are given away like gravity is given. But it's interesting that you're looking for these intersection moments where you can you can feel the fragility Were something that should have been given or that you felt was given is still challenged or a question and a new way of using art to to really question everything that's, that's really inspiring. And on your on your journey into into the arts you also studied art in Stuttgart at any specific moment or also personalities, other artists that then create these eye opening moments moments for you or also like from your childhood, very parents into the art, what were the persons on the way but also the moments that that said, you want to be an artist or whatever that means.
Marie Lienhard :So I decided that I wanted to study art. I grew up in a very creative environment. And I was surrounded by artists had brilliant teachers of school, but it was not Until I was confronted by a life threatening illness when I discovered art therapy in that situation, and I was totally fascinated by what transformation is possible through art. So I decided to go to academia and do it here as a guest student so I could start studying art therapy. And then at the academia, I just realized this. Art Therapy just seems so limited in comparison to the art world in itself, which is just can open absolutely every single direction and then I applied and started as an artist that have inspired me or am still inspire me. I think the most important artists James Turrell also works with physical phenomena and also creates experiences of total immersion and fascination. Yeah, is my my biggest inspiration. And otherwise obviously I'm also very interested in order for a song. I don't always find his work. The results brilliant, but I obviously find that what he's working with another interesting find most of its very fascinating.
Unknown Speaker :Yeah,
Unknown Speaker :that would be that would be the most
Marie Lienhard :the closest to my closest to my work and also as it may be coming to me because of your question that a friend of mine recently asked me how did you deal with burnout studies you have to consume to to look at so many really hard core things really also very painful things as I think is also very, very, very important that the art world is also taking responsibility for that, but is very important contribution to society, looking at giving the experience or bringing the also very challenging experiences of very difficult situations worldwide and making them closer and being able to feel it and at the same time. For me personally I think bringing a an opening bringing an element of lightness brings an experience of astonishment and wonder and time To pure enjoyment is also a very important part of what art can provide for society. And that's a subject which I keep getting closer to me. Because it's just so much fun. It's just
Unknown Speaker :yeah, makes you breathe, it makes you feel alive. Yeah. And get some
Marie Lienhard :distance and objectivity and also visions or ideas for other options, other solutions.
Fabian Seewald :Yeah, like, I like this a lot that the art can really in a way help us to change perspective sometimes get out of the density of of something might be out in our head and bring it back into our feed and also like to reconnect with our values. stances using technology three it's getting immersed but I think sometimes just just the drawing and what what it does to you but not just like on a on a cognitive level but also with with the whole body that's that's important part Yeah, I think artists is actually getting getting more important in these times when all feels so dense to bring back the light and also the light and sometimes just sometimes a smile and sometimes somebody put something in what I what I read about you that you also need to open space to the audience that it's not about you say, this particles of God that are sparked it's about getting back when you just leave it open. How did you refer to this openness? Do you have a specific idea that you want to to bring to the artist or is it rather than an open sensation? How do you think art has to be especially about your art project because he had a clear idea also challenging physics.
Marie Lienhard :On the other hand, I feel you also created an open space. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's very important to have as an artist to have your own idea and to be very precise in what it is that is you wanting to work towards, but in the production and in the results that you create, it's so vital that the people who get to see the art and experience the art of that they feel totally free to have their own connections that there's there's enough in the images and experiences that there's enough openness for each person to find their own connection to it. And some people find it really just on a physical level through the senses as you're saying, which is very important and most of the work that I do, is that we really experience it with the senses. It also has to do with the fact that I grew up very close to nature and also I was traveling on Very close to the landscape in Australia for seven months and this experience through the senses is, as you say, it's like the bridge towards getting away from stuck ideas and running. It's also very enjoyable. It's something I also do on a daily basis that I I felt for my work as well as preparation for before I start working. And just very regularly I believe, maybe not necessarily in town and the way that the situation situation is, did it but in a try to really focus on I realize it takes so much work awareness and constant remembering to actually really just let ourselves be immersed and really pick up on the way that Something smells or the way that it feels or the lights or the wind or to really just focus on these experiences through the senses and nature is very generous and enjoyable as well.
Fabian Seewald :While picking up on these creative routines, what inspires you? Is it in a way that you stayed before?
Marie Lienhard :They can come very often could have waited.
Fabian Seewald :So picking up on on these creative routines and rituals, you said that getting yourself immersed into nature is really mesmerizing for you. You also have two kids, how do you kind of balance this family and an artist life No way but also how do you find these spots to really get onto this this creative deep dives before you get into it? Because the years we all know sometimes they happen under the shower. Sometimes they happen in traffic jam, but sometimes they happen just out of the of the nothing and we're living in this world of constant distractions. How do you create this free space for you to let new things come in? Do they happen in a moment like this? Or is it rather that you have to connect the dots to bring something new into being? Tell us a little bit about your creative
Marie Lienhard :bit of a mixture of birth, there's also different phases where I do a lot of reading a lot of reception. Also, big physics really interests me also. to research on that level, what is actually in what are the laws of physics and through that's then images turn up in Then I know up. Got it. This is the image which I'd like to present. And otherwise, for me, what's also really important is spending time in museums and galleries and exhibitions. That's something that really reconnects me also with the experience that I'm looking to produce, when I make the experience of Latin exhibitions it reconnects me to, to that experience, which I try to also offer with my work. And you mentioned that the fact that have kids that's like, expect that also plays a role in that and what fascinates me because, you know, I'm sure you know that as well. You have a three year old, right? One year old, yes. Excellent. There's a lot of work but great. The pizza just there. The open To me of these experiences which I'm trying to describe, they can get totally lost. They're constantly lost and they can forget everything and be ready and looking at the world through their eyes just totally inspiring the questions that they ask and how they can stand in front of something for minutes on end and totally forget that everything else is happening that also feeds my work and my my the way that I see things
Fabian Seewald :yeah, I totally agree guys currently just learning to walk and he's also like challenging his belief of gravity that crawling might be the best way to get around and then for sure, seeing his his elder brother and seeing how he sees them and how they interact. But as well these moments when they totally dive into one activity and they repeated they repeat event something changed there. Yeah, they create this this world agree sometimes
Unknown Speaker :Hard to get into again, this this total laser laser focus on something where everything else is just super blurry outside and it's this this focus that we that we need to pursue and go actually a bit deeper than just just the surface level. Absolutely. Which is something that I also try and react to this regularly through these DVDs and nature to me to be in the moment to be in really what's happening now because we're constantly back in our heads and our thoughts and our worries and what we have to do, and to actually really dive into what is now dive deep now. Yeah, that's nice.
Unknown Speaker :Yeah.
Fabian Seewald :A lot of times, well, he now something that I also refer to I'm regularly that deeper into the flow experience in deep now is this moment where it becomes time so sometimes things are speeding up that you're in this activity and times just passing by but sometimes you also have these slow slow motion moments but I would not say they just happen but in the creative work it's as we work with these giant puppets is this well this moment of sometimes we feel that we can kind of stop time for a moment why do this morning everything is just getting super slow but in the process just feel like how long like an improvisation session How long did we actually just just performing it just was 30 minutes or eight minutes. So this this is an ability that I feel artists should even share more not just as as the spectator but also what I what I love to do is also bring people into this artistic artistic movement in a way that they also see one part is seeing a piece but The other part it's like how could you really dive into this with them together? Yeah. Did you have that happen? always happen?
Marie Lienhard :they're just, they're just magic and everyone stands around like kids
Fabian Seewald :it's kind of a trick everybody's perception on the kids level. And then there there are again, because your your small buttons won't unimportant but just small in this collective wonder and all. Absolutely. Yeah, don't do it. so
Marie Lienhard :gentle, and so, so light that it's really you can only be even though this feeling being so small, okay. Great, gentle giant that's
Fabian Seewald :talking about like the realization phase of the product. So you have this great idea. But then also how to put gold on it, how to get the helium how to get even like a permission because sometimes it's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. How does this phase How do you get through this phase where I would say you also have to bring sometimes the business or production head on because at least from my perspective can just be only creative and then other people will do it. But you also have to take care of this part. How do you derive dive into into this part? Also? a routine to get into it or have to Yeah,
Marie Lienhard :yeah, and it takes so much time. very tiring. It's also also fun. I also like being in contact with people and like, for example, with the golden baboon, I find the person who is responsible for giving me the allowance to have the takeoff there. And she said, we're actually not allowed to record anything. Also drones are not allowed because there's no because of the political buildings. And yeah, it would be real shame if the arts suffered because of that. So, I'll tell you what, you're going to send me a mail and you're going to write this, this, this, this this. And then two days later I got the response that they would make an exception that's great but
Fabian Seewald :German direct people who understand the importance of this and consciously we can do it so also that even like, with you reaching out to them, they already challenging their their perspective that Okay, that's what the rule and the law says. But on the other hand, it's it's important and to see this, the constant price of this artistic freedom that I experienced, sometimes More as a clown that you can do things that you should normally not do. But I think that's also what was important for the arts to actually not just that we have to grant freedom to the arts, but also that the arts provide freedom. Yeah, but they take it sometimes they rather take it. Yeah.
Marie Lienhard :Well, that's something that's also I really appreciate him stood out is the cultural office that really supports that. That was also a part of the project is that it was funded by the cultural office. And I provided the virtual reality in the public space. There was a takeoff took place for a few weekends in a row. So I stood there and I had an information board with the description of what it is and what happened when and provided the possibility to make my experience in the open space to be away from this white cube. situation where any few few people go Because it's too expensive or because they feel inadequate or they don't, they're just not interested. And yeah, so to be able to provide that on the streets, and if something which they need cultural office in the last few years is really supportive, which is excellent. Now in having a change of
Unknown Speaker :director.
Marie Lienhard :They know that they keep this support of really supporting the artists in the free projects away from the arts, industry markets, to really produce works which are politically and aesthetically relevant, and also to make it accessible to to every person who's not necessarily in their daily life coming into contact without you just being confronted them through artistic actions in their town.
Fabian Seewald :I think that's actually even more important right now like we have this lockdown and all the institutions were down and so a lot of the artistic action moved out with like with the limited amount of possible spectators we all hope that we can scale up to speakers also think at a certain points interesting to think of smaller audience and really moving to smaller audiences even deeper because with a huge audience, it's always like, it's always like a struggle with Okay, where the emergency exits so I think what you did and also then taking the art out to people that are not so be familiar or would not be interested in elsewhere. That's that's also our because I feel especially also the belief systems about art that how we grew up our first art teacher or how we, our parents saw sort of art. It's, it's, it's already defined in a lot how we might get into it. And so it's, it's a great way to absolutely we did a project in Heidelberg with a man
Marie Lienhard :Next, we have that being held by carbon fiber because that's the only material that is. Both magnets weigh one kilo each. So the heavy and they have 200 kilogram pulling force Yeah. And then in that is x in five org, we made holes into the windows and into the walls of the exhibition space and went and fix the carbon fiber to the balconies to the windows of the neighbors. Because it's actually a place where they have a lot of exhibitions but it's in like in the middle of a an area where there's just people, simple houses and people just in the simple neighborhood when it's not in the middle of the town center or anything and The curator was working with at the time Shockley from Paris, was very interested by how the relationship is between this living area and this exhibition space. And there was really in pretty much no exchange. So that's why we decided that we would go say hello. So we knocked on the doors and really also connected people, which was really amazing that people because I had one carbon fiber going to this one, and then to that one, and then they will met at the opening and people who most of them had never been set foot in the exhibition space, because a lot of them said they just don't dare they don't know. If it costs something they don't know if they have to get dressed off. They don't know and feel a bit shy, basically. And so through this project, we really had that it was just such a nice opening. And then there's one one guy who's looking for a job.
Fabian Seewald :So
Marie Lienhard :one major
Unknown Speaker :project
Marie Lienhard :really nice interaction between this white cube
Unknown Speaker :and also people
Fabian Seewald :in this kind of attraction but also this impacted you create to the arts, which is not just a piece but also what happens with the people that see and they come together in new way and you create a common space of comments. So different and diverse sensation that then create something, something new. I like to say that yeah, it's create it's very new narratives as well as people that might not have a common connection point through this. External intervention. nucleating like the common spot and from there like a new network can actually grew up but it's a starting point. Sometimes we feel that the art can be a new starting impulse to create something new some
Unknown Speaker :You have of mutual, not just interest but real mutual connection. Yeah, absolutely. But I think it's also really important that the arts actually take that sense of the artists and the art world actually take that step and open the doors and invite because we kind of tend to
Marie Lienhard :get in that we're in our little circle, and we have our conversations, we all understand each other and yes, and this year, to actually really open the doors and really make that a focus also within the art practice to make that possible, because otherwise, you won't happen if we don't actually make you. Yeah, the artists are rather
Fabian Seewald :more able to take the initiative to take the first step and from there on Yeah, the magic will happen because I think creativity, something we all have in common and it's just like making the first step and opening up this space, this free space and from the area. It's oftentimes so magical but I also totally agree that the artists are in their studio they're working on something and the rest day they don't understand us and so on so on and institutions are substan sometimes too much too far away too far away from the norm and they're working something to say the elites and are the things they're always going to be Oprah say also experiencing the recent conversation was also interesting how both taking some of the format's online which made like the treshold a lot smaller to say how can go on to experience an Oprah because I can get I can be dressed as I want in my dressing gown, my tone my hands in a way but I think it's a it's a big chance but as well I think like we can just leave it all to to cyberspace and the internet it's it's even more important to see that what our public spots that you we could we could bring some some interesting installation some some nice performances into to
Unknown Speaker :To also create this new world new narrative and we need after after this time of lockdown this new belonging. Yeah, well, I think there's been very positive things that have happened online, I find it great that the logics of gold is now part of the
Marie Lienhard :assessment. collection is no safe collection, the biggest collection of digital art and the spaces another flight, which I did for the second time is also part of that collection. And when the lockdown started, I had the idea, we can't just keep it in the collections there. And so I wrote to them and suggested that we put it online because there was really, in this moment of lockdown, like everyone was so stuck and really couldn't breathe and couldn't go out. But giving the opportunity to really make that experience fail just totally right. I was very pleased that these institutions were also winning, because obviously it's also an investment for them and it's the art world and all of that. I was really pleased To see that in the institution, there's really an openness to really respond and to provide artists appropriately as possible, according to the situation. And what I also observed in the opening of the last second exhibition they had, they did it online, they now have critical critical zones. They have an exhibition in the fiscal expert exhibition, which opened on the 24th of July, and did the opening online with three days of putting discussions, videos and all live for three days and they had 34,000 visitors, which is what they have per exhibition per year normally. And obviously, it's not the same experience as really seeing the artworks there. But it's really an amazing possibility to really make it accessible to people in London and New York and Bombay. First off mm through the In this digital opening I think something very positive. I've also had access to stuff which I normally would have missed because I can't go there because it's too far too expensive and that's really very positive thing.
Fabian Seewald :Yeah, well I sometimes describe it as the extension of this analog experience that you might have in a museum or in a performance that afterwards through the digital feed before or after that especially like why all these physical borders still feel more close to never that decided bombed by New York, that disclosure community at least like in the internet is more connected than ever and you you have the chance to digitally hop to things that kind of like in physical space, being a traffic jam here, then you have to make a decision where do we want to go and for sure, the networking part might might be feeling on the one On the other hand, I also have discussion with great artists around the world so I feel Yeah, we should use the connection so right now I'm really enjoying as well being with you in a room and seeing as well where you work in this part of the story. So you're taking the best case taking both advantages and seeing as well the the global connection but also thinking rather local, what are the things that I can do here immerse in nature and
Marie Lienhard :yeah, which I think most people have also really strongly experienced. There's been no bikes, bike shops. got nothing left. Because everyone's cycling again. Something people are already getting closer to since experiences through the situation and at the same time, the global opening the international global opening through the internet is something which has really been moved forward through the corona crisis. And I think No, it's been Big Question of finding the right balance and supporting the positive developments on all the levels which I think is coming from. from individuals it's coming from political and economical level it's. So make for example, this rescue package from the state for the creative and artistic sector of 1 billion euros which has been granted provided and at the same time, 9 billion for Lufthansa. It's like to do the one of the numbers to doo doo The culture and creative sector sector employs 1 million people and has 200 billion turnover a year. And Lufthansa airlines 35,000 people in the creative sector actually provides something it's not even running just economically surplus somehow. That makes me a little bit crazy and anxious. Because I feel like through from society, there's a lot of stuff that has changed in the individuals menu totally new experiences and have a time. And that kind of feels like
Fabian Seewald :political and economical level that there's this really strong drive to just go back to normal. Normal. Yeah, that's the question what is relevant for the system and what is not an RD is relevant for Now we could see that like, the hospital and at least in Germany, like the health system is somehow working and the question is flying is this is this system relevant in in 10 years in 15 years? Or are we going to use the goggles and dive into these other worlds we realize cyberspace virtual reality experiences. It's a it's as well as this self understanding in a way that the arts have needs subsidized. That's it. As well one part that I'm like, at least we don't we've conjugated like without subsidize, despite the space that we have. It's a bit like trying to build a bridge between our two businesses. We play for the big companies on the other hand as well, this gives us the free space but as as well as dependency and it will be nice if it could be even free. And if you say You had this idea but as well then you need some grants you need some funds so I think that's still a part that we all haven't found the right the right answer to maybe like it's as well asking a new question about like finally the answer to this problem it seems to so given so so set a driving like a quest what's the part of art for society to move forward because as well and now we have this also creative planet demonstration and this is as well like something I see as an artistic intervention. And that might as well be role for for artists to go back to public space and the question is then like How can a society as well kind of appreciate also to make to create a living for for the artists and I haven't found the answer yet for for this place.
Marie Lienhard :Now there was an interesting article
Unknown Speaker :toggles.
Marie Lienhard :They really support the idea that museums need to be supported more by politics, to provide an independence from the art market, and to really provide to be a museum also to preserve art and to make a piece of art part of collection that will be shown and preserved, but also to really support living artists and to provide spaces for autonomy, and also have time to produce to not produce to satisfy the art market in the next fashion for the next fair, but to really actually provide artists with the space and the autonomy and the time to produce relevant. I was really pleased to read this article. To see where are we gonna get the money for it? Yeah, well just print a bit more Yeah, maybe we should start getting into money production
Fabian Seewald :we'll talk again about the last few months what has been happening is there a particular idea that has emerged out of this I always called Quran creative times that sometimes it's a time on resume in dead new things actually pop up because a lot of distraction fall away. Now please share with us what what happened inside the artistic married.
Marie Lienhard :There's been quite a lot going on. One, there's quite a few concrete ideas which I've developed and been working on them in model form the students everything reopens them, I can start developing them further. There's one idea which is still tricky and concrete. But somehow I really want to explore that. And that's to somehow use this feeling that is currently there that through this difficult situation, this challenging situation which has opened our experience and opened our thinking and that this is something which is really present at the moment. And somehow to catch these to catch, captures energy and to somehow reach out. I think what's also very important if we're going to be still digitalising lots nothing, we're still going to be there for a while to, to, not to not be in a situation where you're producing where you can Human to actually really, like we did in execs that we were involved people to open on on a digital digital level, maybe through social media, because that's just the communication platform, which is just totally that's most popular platform, but I have no concrete idea yet what, but somehow I kind of catching that energy somehow and saying, What what are the ideas of
Fabian Seewald :creating kind of a melting pot of ideas, energies and thoughts? But I haven't. It's not concrete. Who will let's, let's see how this new ideas galvanize to something. Again, Africa that extends our our resection, is there anything that you could give young artists that also experienced these hard times right now on their way to or to create do their own way of art to to get into the arts, anything that you from your artistic experience could share with them. Don't let anyone get you down.
Marie Lienhard :Follow your passion. Find. Where is it? Where is it that it burns in me where it's like, I can't come doesn't let me go I have to. And it's not that easy to actually define. Because there's so many options, so many fascinating things that so many interesting information and, and also it's very intimate the art that everyone produces. And sometimes it's really scary to actually open up with it and know where it's burning and to not let it go and what might be coming from left and right. Criticism or to actually use it positively. Listen to the criticism listen to what people and how people are responding because I think it's also important that you use it to not change what it is that you're really looking towards. But to define for yourself why it is that you are doing it that way and why you're not doing it. Another one.
Fabian Seewald :Nice one. So, yeah, feel feel the burn away. Don't let yourself get get down but like listen to what's coming from the outside and in this feedback loop, kind of like, find a redefinition or like another visual shift towards again, getting getting out a different perspective, but rather an extended perspective
Marie Lienhard :and be able to define it. And obviously, when we're stuck in our, our own bubble, sometimes we don't realize that other people Just not seeing it that but we're not managing to access really an image or an experience which is relevant to the others. So that feedback is really important but sometimes it can be very destructive and very negative. So finding a way to use it to actually get closer to what it is that you're working towards, and finding images that also really speak that really open up and really can involve
Fabian Seewald :well, beautiful words of wisdom. That was another very beautiful and inspiring episode. Thanks for for tuning in. And thanks so much for for taking the time hearing the noise of your studio and here taking us with you into an imaginative world. Wow, what a beautiful flight with Mary. She really asked all of us to get out. Explore the power of nature and from that
Unknown Speaker :do with this inspiration create your own art. We can all do it. Please follow us on Instagram at sea arts now and check out Marie beautiful work of art.