The SeeArts Podcast #16 🎭🚀Bringing objects to life with Caroline Bernier-Dornier 🦋❄️

Today, we are diving into the world of puppetry and I am so excited to have Caroline Bernier Dionne with me. Since 2007, she has integrated puppetry into her multidisciplinary artistic practice. Her many talents include multiple styles of puppet manipulation, interpretive movement, clowning, stilt-walking, and figure skating. Caroline graduated with a degree in theater and worked for several theater companies, film, and television. Recently, she performed on ice with Cirque du Soleil on the touring show Axel. She investigates the intersections between live performance and cinematographic capture and Caroline loves to share her work with the local puppetry community and connect puppeteers all over the globe.

In the podcast, we exchange about Giant puppets, the importance of breath and the early magical moments of truth while getting to know collective animated puppets and the bond it shapes.

From there, we explored the possibilities that digital formats bring along for puppetry but as well for the promotion of the arts.

You can join the free Online Puppet Gala 2021 on January 30th.
https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/puppet-podcast-gala-2021-tickets-136207298697

Also check out Caroline's Podcast and her website where she showcases in a beautiful way how to
https://www.puppetpodcast.com
https://www.patreon.com/puppetpodcast
https://www.instagram.com/puppetpodcast/

Transcript

Fabian Seewald: 0:27

Welcome to the SeeArts podcast we build a bridge between Arts and Business want to inspire you to see art. So welcome to new episode of the car podcast and today I'm so excited because we're finally diving into the world of puppetry and we have a very special guest today. It's Caroline , all the way from Montreal, Canada. And since 2007, she has integrated puppetry into a multidisciplinary artistic practice. Her many talents include multiple styles of puppet manipulation, interpretive movement, clowning, stilt, walking and figure skating. She graduated from theater school and worked for several theatre companies, films and television just recently what I could also see she's wearing currently a sweater of Cirque du Soleil excellent. She worked just before the pandemic was served to slay in this show on eyes. And in her work. She investigates the intersection between life performance and cinema to graphic capture, and love to share work with the local puppetry community, but as well connecting puppeteers all over the world with her puppet podcast. So we have plenty of topics from podcasting to giant puppetry, and as well clowning to this cast today. I'm so excited to have you today on the SeeArts podcast. Thanks so much for taking the time.

Caroline Bernier-Dornier: 1:47

Thank you so much. I'm so happy to connect with you and talk about art and, and passion towards human creation.

Fabian Seewald: 1:56

Oh, yeah, human human creations. And I think that's also starting points like about your creation about you currently? How well how did you grow up? How did you get into the arts? What were these inflection points or how you call it because I also listen to one of your podcasts, your crash mode, when when it became so obvious that art is something so important in your life that you want to succeed in and, and dive deeper into?

Unknown: 2:21

Yeah, so I'm from a little town by the sea, in the Quebec area in Canada, so I could see that I start performing in front of the sea. And that's what the first audience know. I started out actually on ice doing some some show. And yeah, I get this kind of crush about like, being in front of people when I was really young. And then I decide to do it professionally. When I was in high school, I was involved into improv league and theater also and dance class and music and a lot of stuff going on at the teenage time. And you know what it is? And yeah, I I've been in the professional official Theatre School as it's part of the the wave for me. So and yeah, after the school, I get this crush for puppetry art, I was doing some workshop with children. And I didn't know I will be it like that by this art form. But when I saw children, manipulating actually a giant puppet all together on the music of Louis Armstrong wonderful world, I believe that piece on there was possible. And I just start getting more and more into puppetry. And yeah, I think this art form by the Orn and just like let's do it, let's bring puppetry in. Another like in my fashion, in my way of creating So yeah, I think this woman I could recall with giant puppet is really an inflection a spark a crush with this art form. But as it's part of theatre, I could say that it's it's an aspect of theatre that I wish everyone will discover one day.

Fabian Seewald: 4:29

Well, let's let's talk about this, like what makes puppetry in the theatrical context so special, because I'm also in love with puppetry and also feel it's, in a way, like undervalued because puppetry and sometimes just think about, maybe like, just about like sock puppets, but there's so much more in such a big variety. What, what makes puppetry special special for you? What is puppetry for? You just like to start off like what

Unknown: 4:57

Yeah, what it is, I think For me, I, I fall into philosophy a bit, you know, in, in college, you have this philosophical aspect of life. And puppetry helped me to, to be out of my head a bit, it's really at the same time to repeat it for the performer, but also for the audience, because we can think that the world is even bigger than us smaller than us, because it depends of the object that you manipulate. I've done giant puppets I've done like small puppet, object theater, all of those kind of art form, help yourself to express how you see the world, how you see human emotion, how you position yourself towards your relation. So I think for me, it's really it's not a props thing, it's really more than that, it's more than props, it's just another vision of the world that you can bring. It's also bring some concrete stuff to the audience, you know, when you have a play with a lot of words, for children, if you have just an object, they can understand emotion. So it's such a universal language, for art. And between the stage and the audience, just music light and object could talk. And you don't need any human on stage, they can be identified by wearing black suits, and you will have a show of their but when you put someone on stage, it will have another meaning you are the human in relation with an object. So I don't want to feel like to fall too deep into it. But he have like multiple level of this art form. And for me, that's what makes it fun. Because you can also have a lot of fun and make people laugh, by just the way you look at objects. So it's really interesting.

Fabian Seewald: 7:07

Yeah, I think it's easy in a really nice way. That's the universal language that everybody like from different countries or like you don't even need like a like spoken language just like the option how the the puppets relate to them that are interesting. Also, I love to discredit, you can like challenge the impossible, it could be something huge, or the word like super, super small. So in a way it really widens our horizon, how we, how we look at things. And yeah, in the end, it's actually a really ancient art form. But I think currently, like all these contemporary movements that are going on puppetry also so interesting. And I think you're also somebody a person that can really fuse things into in my mind creators create your own fusion. So you're also connecting different art forms together into into puppetry. Tell us a little bit about like, what things from clowning to figure skating, how did you combine it and what what's the result? And also, like, what's the what's what are the challenges in the process of using them?

Unknown: 8:11

Yeah, I think to to combine is really key for me, because, you know, they we have this statement to say like everything I've been done before you so you want to recreate something new? Yeah, those kind of teacher at school, you're just like, they bring you down a bit like it just okay, but I feel I have something to say different than other, I want to change that world. So how I can do it. So for me, I really feel to combine the multiple level of art form that I add Pratik practice in my life is really key like to bring music and, and also visual effects and movement. It's really key to express myself to start from music. Also, for my creative process is really key. I often just take a soundtrack and start writing and moving in the, the stage or or on ice because I have the chance to bring puppetry towards ice with Cirque du Soleil. And that was a dream come true for me because as a figure skater, you just say I want to do this figure skating differently than others. So when they offer me the potential of doing a circus act with puppets on ice, I was like, wow, this is the statement. You know, when your kids and you say one day I would do something special. So just this challenge they bring to me out, I was really excited about it. And it was a challenge because you know, when you work on the big organization, you have also different layers of the work like you cannot build your own puppets. You cannot touch Change the puppets, you have to get the committee agree with your, your creative process. So it was really interesting also to have the help of the team too, if you think of this as a thing of that with with your puppet, so it's really, puppetry is also really a team effort a team work. So we have the builders and you know, you have to be in good relationship with with all the crew because you're the puppet. So you steal the attention of the crowd, it's like to have an animal on stage or a clown or a baby, like everyone would look at the dog on stage because it looks the attention is so in the present moment. And it's so authentic. So the puppets have this power to. So yeah, you have to get good relations with your, your crew members to also take the attention when you need it and be able to, to it at some point. So yeah, that's really um, I'm not sure I answering totally to your question, but it's really my creative process there.

Fabian Seewald: 11:12

And what I could imagine, like what I how I see figure skating is awesome, like, in a way highly competitive, and like, hard work. puppetry is also hard work. But I, I guess, the emotion that you can translate with a puppet on ice, it's still a different story than in typical fingers games. It's also like a new, a new way of proceeding it for the audience that you're opening up with that.

Unknown: 11:38

Yeah. And also the unscathed, you are moving so faster than on feet. So for giant puppets, it's really interesting because you can enter on ice and spinning and rolling. And people just like whoa, okay, this is the giant in his real, like speed because it's the speed of the giant, he needs to be fast. So yeah, I really like this aspect to

Fabian Seewald: 12:05

Well, we've also worked on ice I think two years ago, we don't do for. For ice circus, pro circus, it was also an interesting process. Because for something like puppetry with a grandpa that we work with the fixed points are so important. And then once you're on skates, it's hard to get the fixed ones we try to escape and then we try to keep one public you can have skates but the other one, it's better to have spikes in order to get the fix. But like in order to have done do skating, we actually needed needed spikes to this. Yeah, it's always like to get on the new turrets. Also, such a nice research process. Same like with water. And as you said, like it's a little child. The ocean was your was your audience. It's

Unknown: 12:47

Yeah,

Fabian Seewald: 12:48

it's an interesting yeah. Interesting way house. Yeah, it's

Unknown: 12:52

totally how lives brings you those kind of challenge to make you evolve. That's really interesting.

Fabian Seewald: 12:59

And in your daily work today, how do you stay creative? Do you have special routines? And as well? Can you share a bit the rituals before you go on stage be like in a Cirque du Soleil context? but also for a solo show? How do you get into the creative mood? But also, how do you get into like the stage? Let's get ready to inspire the audience mood?

Unknown: 13:22

Yeah, that's great. A great question. I could say like, right now, I don't do a lot of live in person thing because it's, it's really uh, yeah, it's part of the challenge of the this, this virus going on, but I feel with the live I'm doing some like Internet live performance, I get the same trail than going on stage you get this, this stress because you live and people are watching or not or whatever, you you get this thrill. But yeah, the thrill of being watch. It's really interesting. But for me, the ritual to stay creative right now is really, I think, for me, it's part of the physical exercise too. I'm a runner, I really enjoy running so I try to run every day or every two days to to have a big run out around the city or challenge myself towards this because I feel when you are able to look outside to look at the people in the street to look at the house, the trees, you feel you feel less worried about the world. It's kind of like it's helping me to get rid of the stress by looking at the environment, the sunset, the sunrise, all of those moments by the time I run. So and for the stage. I could say the makeup part of the performances always good moment to find yourself or like find your zone or think in terms of where are you right now like how you feel. So for me the I love when we have makeup session and with Cirque we have big big makeup session. So we have a lot of time to listen a lot of podcast and a great group interview and stuff like this. But I always try to have also a moment near my puppet near my like, just with myself with the physical stretching with some sound out so as I do voice on stage, I will warm my mouth my my sound instruments. And yeah, just also try to just not be just on myself to connect with the team but in a way that everything is pleasant. It's really really important for me to create a peaceful pleasant pleasure oriented with love and passion around me where I have to perform so if it's in backstage like people are concerned and stress you just like you're not Oh brigade go and talk and they can dress everything but just send the good wave to be open and smart and have fun so I always feel I fall back in the child side feeling child the perception of the world be like into this moment of like discovering everything okay, what's happening like, and and feeling the moment. So that's kind of my my advice. Also, if you are backstage, just don't close your eyes too much. Open it more. Open yourself because the audience want you really open to see the present moment.

Fabian Seewald: 17:04

Oh, yeah, that's beautiful. I'm missing this backstage moments currently, but this curiosity that we as a clown, but as well as as puppeteers can bring out and in the end like the puppet is for me as well like a focusing element and you focus your, your good wipes your smile onto the puppet and the puppet is actually even like it's the puppet so much smaller than you I think you work with a giant puppet. So it's actually a bigger spreader in a positive way. Yeah, it's, it's so beautiful. And, and something that for me like for puppetry, it's really important but I think also these times of this respiratory virus is breath. How do you practice like breathing along with a puppet and, and connecting the breath because I think once I think it was handspring puppet company who, who made the quote, an actor is struggling to die on stage but a puppet all its life. It's struggling to learn to live to make one realistic breath make the audience believe it's it's alive. How do you? How do you work with with the breathing part of it? How do you integrate it? Because at some point, I feel at least I'm becoming the puppet with my, with my four colleagues on doo doo. How does it work if you work collectively on a power, but also if you have it individually?

Unknown: 18:24

Yeah, that's so interesting. As a question I will always remember a casting I've done like an audition for a play. And we were three puppeteers. We didn't know each other, never in the world, like we never met, we just arrived in the room for the audition. And they just say, Okay, take this puppet and make it brief. And it's It was so incredible, because I wasn't that experienced in puppetry at that time. But we just connect together that was magic for me. And it's funny how the light was a bit dark and we just like it was a ritual we bring live into the subject how together and we were like, given our breathing, we were breathing at the same time, but without any communication. Like we didn't make a caucus or like you know, a little meeting Oh, I will do that arm or we just like we took our place. And I remember I was doing maybe the feet or one arm. I'm not sure I it was like mystical for me this moment. And we just make this puppet alive. And we get the job actually the three of us we were so together. And after that we just that was a good audition a Yeah, yeah, it was fun. Wow. Okay, maybe we will have it see you. So and we are we are touring for three years all together. And we were always thinking in terms of like being a team being one buddy. Be All together, it's like a transformer like you are old or Power Rangers. So I thought I tried to make metaphor, because it's so in into the movie imagination right now. But it's just to be one. And that's also really powerful and really, to rap music at the same time, because you just, you're not just yourself, you're a team you're working towards, like, it's not an organization or a business, but it's a present moment with someone who is breathing. So I would say that it's really to be to listen, like, you know, artists, some time we, we, we, we've talked a lot. But this those moments are moments where you have to listen the moment listen your partners, and and just be part of this group, like you're not selfish anymore, you're just in to this moment and serving your serving the puppet, you're serving the show, you're serving the audience, to make them believe life is hope, and a lot of great, great stuff and light and, and yeah, it's it's making me breathe right now also to talk about this, because it's so powerful.

Fabian Seewald: 21:20

It is I totally agree that this moment of merging into one when you feel that nobody's actually giving an act of impulse, but really serving the puppet. And everybody's really super focused. And it's also somehow it's creating an aura. That's what I always feel that you really do kind of like demanding yourself and diving, diving into this, dive into this character. And that's such a such a powerful thing. And so beautiful that you experience this one as well, like, at the audition, and you, you were able to bring this, this experience out to the people I feel it's also connected to the concept of flow flow is described as this moment of, of oneness. And there's like an individual flow. If I'm hula hooping, I sometimes get into flow, but there is this higher level of flow, which is called group flow, or team flow. And I think the puppetry that we are doing is really like a trigger for this, to use these flow moments, because what I can relate to this in a way, the intrinsic motivation, just the fun part of of making something in life and kind of like, co creating it in, in the journey when you don't know where you belong, and especially if you're just improvising. Sometimes that would put really helping we beat the giant puppet also with our smaller puppets to be to get into this explorative mindset.

Unknown: 22:42

Yeah, but it says, This is such an interesting question. Also, because it's, it's a bit over us, like over live thing. You know, it's, it's really, it's something that you need to observe by yourself, you need to experience it, because it's not a belief point. It's really something into action. And it's really something you do you create it. So you you need to be aware and open to this creation. I will remember also, in talking in terms of flow, you know, the first time you do stuff, sometime you get this flow, and after you lose it, I experienced that at Theatre School, we were doing dorms, organic, warm up, we were calling it and it was so funny because we were starting on emotion and repeating the same and same motion over and over and with the flow and exaggerate it, and breathing a lot. And I remember to be a group, we were like, maybe 12 or 15 students, and doing this exercise with this motion with the arm just like flipping the arm in front of you and back and forth. And to get a sound going and it was really a bit weird at the same time. But everyone connected that moment. And we just finished this warm up. And we look at each other and we we didn't know what happened, but we were somewhere else at some point. So it was kind of like so deep into the present moment. But at the same time, it's like we have travel, like many lifetimes. It's we were doing those kinds of like Greek ritual like Greek theater, art form of like, in French, we say our car like an art. I don't know how to translate that, that concept, but it was really deep and for me it was kind of a you know, life changing experience because you understand that with a group you go more far like you You can be alone on on stage. But if the Group do an effect all together like they, they put a sound and the movement at the same time. It's like It's like an orchestra, and people will feel it in the audience also. So yeah, I could agree that those experience are really tangible when you experience it, you know it, but sometimes it's hard to recreate I remember to try to recreate this kind of feeling after, and it wasn't there. But I was kitsch questioning and like, what what changed? What What happened? What was the parameter to create that moment? And I try to solve it since this moment. I I could say that breathing is key motion is key. Sound is key, but how to recreate this kind of travel? I don't know.

Fabian Seewald: 25:54

Yeah, I agree. It's, it's pretty, it's pretty addictive, in a positive sense. not addicted. But it's rather well, they can do go deeper that the first cut might be the nobility that brings you into it. But afterwards, it's really hard work to make it repetitive and kind of like, Yeah, really listen to yourself. How can you recreate this but also go deeper? into it? Yeah. It's a really yeah.

Unknown: 26:19

It's something really interesting. And it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's hard to describe and at the same time, it's a it's a muscle, you need to muscle yourself to be able to, to create those kind of like moments of theater, theater, theater quality. I don't know sometimes I create word I tried to translate French concept, you know, French language, we have so much word to explain some nuance. So yeah. Yeah, that's, that's it. I think those flow with puppetry also are really key when you, you manipulate the giant puppets in the team, you you will feel and even the audience is part of the ritual, they are part of it so they can help to create this app learning mode.

Fabian Seewald: 27:11

And I also love what you told about listening and puppetry, it's so much more about listening and not talking. And sometimes as yours referred, to this moment, with, with the kids and what a wonderful world I also feel that in this moment of puppetry, when we really listen to each other, the puppets is becoming alive. We also create this better world when we say if we would listen a bit more to each other, especially also indeed, these times where it's sometimes overwhelming what's going going on if it just like listen to ourselves, but also to the rest of what's going on. It's sometimes for me, like the utopia of, of a better world just put into like a little character that it's that it's animated. So it's,

Unknown: 27:54

yeah, I agree so much. I agree so much. And it's funny how it's I more and more I searching in my in my practice, I often realize that the key is often outside of yourself, it's really into the connection the communication the relation you have towards the world more than Close your eyes and like it's it's it's part of it you have to go inside it to go outside but I feel I'm more in my career right now to an inside outside reach and I need to connect with the the audience and the crowd more and listen to it.

Fabian Seewald: 28:39

That's cool. And now towards this outreaching focus currently if you had to decide right now, would you prefer to go to the public space to perform or to the theater? which one to choose?

Unknown: 28:51

Yeah, that's so I and I feel for For now, we were on more into the public space performance that's what is real to me right now because you know, those the theater are closed right now in in my area, they are close but I think in certain part of the world they will open soon. And I think theater is really it's really the best scene because it's people are going there to listen the show they won the ritual happening they won the show happening and but I really enjoyed the public space show I feel we know to be a terrorism of art, you know, but you just attack people with with art. So when I'm doing steel show and I arrive and people don't expect me or or when I'm I'm doing clown or I make something funny or I bring up puppet to people who didn't expect it. I feel it's really it's really It's part of the duty but it's a different kind of theater it's really and I feel we need to do that more and more to make the more art and the art field growing it's to connect with people who don't know the art form who don't have access to a lot of art to make their awareness level grow and to also make them appreciate and understand and want to to get more art around them. So I really enjoy those character it's goes inspired by clown character, those are waitress in rollerskate, they are from the 50s and they just arrived to serve people in different environments. Sometimes it's cooperative, sometimes it's outside like cars show thing, or just a family gathering. And and we have so much fun to just bring the craziness of the character and and it's so light and and full of smile and people really like the the laugh and they feel lighter. And I feel the world like really need those kind of clown and artistic act or terrorist

Fabian Seewald: 31:23

terrorism that's like really Archer ism. So yeah,

Unknown: 31:27

it's it's um, dude that Paiva who said that in one of my interview, he said puppet here are the terrorism of of theater, or the the attack those puppets and I feel it, it was so funny as an analogy.

Fabian Seewald: 31:44

Well, yeah, sometimes it's really about provoking, I think Yeah, the question was, there was no right or wrong answer. I think you you put it perfectly that in the theater, people that go that they already know the ritual, they already like they come with a special focus, they want to see you. But in public space, it's rather the challenge that you have to create your space, you have to create your own, maybe it might just be like a two minute, two minutes focus that you get from somebody, this could also be life changing, because this audience might not have the chance to normally go to the theater with a puppetry. Marionette. Oh, no, I'm not into that. So a different focus points. But I see currently, as also, as we have to do so many performances out there as the theaters are closed, there is a new creativity going on. So kind of like reclaiming public space in a way Hey, could couldn't this be a stage? Or could this be like a performance parading thing like currently, as in Germany, like the the numbers are just too high, there's not too much going on. It's rather like a lockdown situation. But I think in these shifting times, for example, when the when the swimming pools were closed out, if the swimming pools empty, couldn't that be a fun way to perform, it also opens up new ways of creativity in these special situations. I think that's a challenging time. Because everything that we've known as our key, people want to see that large crowds are coming together. It's not happening currently. But sometimes as well, we, we sometimes perform in like social action hospitals. And then if we have just five children we perform for them, but the intensity of these moments are actually even bigger. So sometimes not this huge crowd that you need, but rather a focused and, and really appreciative audience that you have in a in a special context that can like create even like a bigger resonance field as performing in a stadium. But we're coming to the hard part of the SeeArts podcast because the SeeArts podcast was about how can we combine art and business which is like, actually, they don't have so much in common, but do you work with big companies and those doing cooperative work? How How do you combine it? How do you switch the heads from the Creative Artists towards the administrator? Or is there actually is business also creative? I think so.

Unknown: 34:00

Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, one of my friend, Dominic is an actor and he say, me when I change hat, like when you go into negotiation, you take your phone, but you change ears. And when you change ears, you can negotiate order. But yeah, it's it's a good question. And I think, for this time, especially, it's really important to ask this question, because you know, you need to, to stay in touch with your public. And it's funny all the social media helps you to do that. And it's part of the business right now. It's really part of it and you need to grow your connection. We talked about that before the interview, you need to also it's part of business you need to connect with new potential associate artists, you will do project you need to connect with people and for me, I will Say I have the chance to be with someone who is part of the management side of the show business. So his work in communication and an administrative way off for our business, and he help artists and coaching. So we really get into that kind of like how we can help artists. Also, when you help other you, you could also feel really reward for that. So I feel this is really part of it too, to be able to share your, your tools with other artists and help them because it's, I will always say it's not a competition, it's really, and we just need to reach more public, because we are, like almost a billion people on this planet. So we have plenty of people to bring art to like we, we will never not have a job. Because it's, it's always to find another product you could sell also. And it's art. Like I read books about that how to describe art, not in terms of product, because it's a product, it's it's the real word to use, but how to put it more appealing for artists, it's more you describe your work, like I really find the wording is really key in this like you, you have to bring your work to the audience, you have to bring your work to the social media, it's not your product, or, but it's it's a product, it's an art piece, it's a performance. So it's really a new wording that we need to find. And I think it's the community will find it. And we will feel comfortable in that. And we will just be able to promote our art more because we will find the good wording, but you have not a lot of book about that. Okay, fine, just one about how to market art for the contemporary scene. And it's, it's, it's not a funny subject, but it's important to define that word. And it's really important as an artist to know what do you want to do? Like why are you doing this? Is it to change the world like it but it's sad to be connect with something really deep because when a pandemic it and you don't know how you will survive and you really need to connect about your why like, why you you doing this job instead of like, why I don't make money with my art. Because it's it's not the debate, the debate is why you're doing it, you want to help the society you want to change the world. And those big meaning are really key into the business.

Fabian Seewald: 38:00

Yeah, that's that's what but keeping the energy running in a way also like sometimes in in dry season as we have it right now. But also, as you put it, like it's art is an infinite game. And if we rather focus too much on the competitions to run focus currently, for sure. There's a competition of focus, because if we put something online, we're competing against Netflix and YouTube, but I think in the end if we put something authentic out there that the human side of, of the art and actually maybe at some point, if we even engage people to reconnect with their inner artists, I think we can really make a bigger contribution as some people just binge watching, watching Netflix and this is like showing up and it's not happening from one day to the other. But it's like, keep on doing it, making it a routine. Keep on keep on showing up and somebody who's who's always showing up, it's you and the puppet podcast. Tell us a little bit about the puppet podcast. How did it get into being an engineer? It's so funny that I just learned that when I was scrolling through puppet podcast that one of the puppeteers did work with us and at the world's best in the US. Adrian, she was also recently on your podcast from puppet slam LA. So I think Yeah, small, beautiful word of puppeteers tell us a little bit on yes podcast.

Unknown: 39:17

That's such an adventure. The podcast starts when I was touring with Cirque and I was alone as a puppeteer in this production. So at this point, I want to connect with the community more and I was traveling all around us and I say oh, you have a lot of puppeteer all around us say let's connect with with all the people I would go in each city and so I started on that perspective and the beginning. But yeah, I connect from my hotel room to other Oh, you're in this state. Let's let's build it with bad connection and hotel rooms sometimes when we started and when the pandemic is, it's kind of we we said My boyfriend and I, how we will make this like how we, what is the project that, for us is really key and important for us but for the community and for the art. So the podcasts games, like as the the baby, we just put a lot of energy towards this podcast because we can reach more people we can develop a network, we can help those puppeteer, we're struggling right now and they need to stay focused that they are not alone. And, you know, we have those Guild, puppetry those union, but how to communicate more, it's with those live and those question always the same question that I asked to everyone and and we get such a big, big documentary of the practice right now. So I feel it's it's really key for me to to connect with others, but also to find my personality as also an interviewer what I want to know about others, why I'm curious about connecting with other artists. And that's a lot of fun. And yeah, it's now a business. So how to build a business around the podcast. It's a total other challenge. But it's, it's really funny to discover it by the action not into the head. So much, just do it. And you will discover on the way

Fabian Seewald: 41:30

Oh, yeah, well, I can totally agree for me also, like in a pandemic, I started this talk, this was an idea for a long time. But then in particular, it's really in a way a win win because we have the action but we can also share it onwards and make other puppets to say let's go deeper into this let's let's connect in new ways. But also people that might not already no have been to the magic space of, of puppetry to get an insight out of our inspiration and the energy that I can feel across the big pond, from Stuttgart to mancia. Right now.

Unknown: 42:00

Yeah. And yeah, and you realize that we are really like, my family didn't know that puppetry was a big thing around the world. It's kind of to build credibility around the the art form. Also people really start to like acknowledge Oh, yeah, puppetry is a big team. Yeah, but it's because I put it in your face all the time on social media. Yeah.

Fabian Seewald: 42:26

Showing up it's so important and staying, staying hungry. But in general, also, like, from a performance perspective, how do you cope with the digitalization of the art form of puppetry, like in TV puppetry has been all over but you also mentioned at the beginning that you also have a new camera setup. And you're also like having puppets on zoom. Tell us a little bit about your Corona creative project with puppetry in, in streaming and these things, how did they go? What What did you learn already? And what are maybe some things on your bucket list that you see, that could be a nice try?

Unknown: 43:01

funny because I I've been in residency, a creative residence in Boston. And I start questioning those kind of like, projection, I was on stage with my tablet talking to Google, with the tablet, and the tablet was becoming a puppet and I was becoming a puppet. And it was like, I was questioning the level of technology and puppetry like how we become puppets of technology. And we use technology to make what we want to do. So that was kind of my my first layer. And I built a piece like a 15 minute form for for cabaret and festival and stuff like that. But it's funny how when we fall into the pandemic, I was like, I need to connect more with this piece that I've built, I need to expand it to make it longer to because I am also a green screen and this projection and the green screen and how this puppetry is all around us now like we can, we can feel the puppets of all of this. We can feel Yeah, manipulated. So I'm really into that I haven't get like a proper result right now I'm searching more than then actually releasing a play. I've done one at the beginning of the pandemic little art form to help a theater where I was getting this residency to bring found and so you try to bring your art form to others and have money to help another theater. So it was an interesting process, but that I feel it's um it's our to trying to adapt for the screen. I feel we need to create something new from the technology from this specific pyrometer with the camera that how the light is different how and we are not director set director we we are puppeteers. So we need to treat it that way like the cameras, your puppets, so the viewpoint could be like subjective really like it another character. So we really bring the puppetry towards the technology. So I feel it's a new box who open like for, for the community. And I feel it's not everyone who are happy with this new challenge, because it's so much information to know, like so much knowledge to grab. And, and sometimes it's a, it's a big mounting. But for me, I'm a curious person, I'm always stimulated by challenge. And I feel as I need to live also to keep doing show the end because I get out also other opportunity and staying connecting with the field. And by going into workshop in schools or like trying to always not like doing something not connect to your practice. And I would say that you need to accept a bit of the challenge and you need to take this moment to learn to learn learning is always something powerful. So learning is, is the key in this time. So we need to learn how to manage this new art form that we need to create with lives and video and, and how to bring art through art not just trying to adapt everything.

Fabian Seewald: 46:46

Yeah, I totally agree. That's like it's not about just filming at how used to but rather really adapted play. And I would love to see like the next progresses about like you becoming the tablet and these things. And also the the relationship that we have that we sometimes feel that we've become the puppet of the political system and they took the power again and we should be like the master puppeteers and kind of like steering it that summons like a metaphor for life as well. Like, we still need we still where we go, or are we being kind of manipulated and doing something why is that and then kind of like cutting the strings. And

Unknown: 47:23

yeah, this is Yeah, this is a message and and we need to do search. And that's what is fun. The creative process is like a moment for yourself to express what you believe to, to search what what is truth. And you don't bring the truth. You are an artist. So you bring the potential answer and you bring it on the table and you put it there and the audience will think of that and they will Oh yeah. Yeah, that's an interesting, I put teasers. And it's Oh, yeah. So I really enjoyed this creative. Yeah, and we'd say that's in Canada is a creative research. I don't know if it's common all around the world, but in such a creative and artistic research.

Fabian Seewald: 48:14

And yes, what we should do, it's about asking the hard questions, like questioning things and looking at things from different perspectives.

Unknown: 48:23

Yeah, and how to represent it in an art and with aesthetic and beauty and yeah, how to do it.

Fabian Seewald: 48:30

Totally. If you look from now, a bit into the future, is there something for you as an artist as a human being as a creator that is on your bucket list of things that like as a child, it was maybe at some point B figure skating and performing restricted today, you can already make a check this box, but is there anything else that you see like maybe in 20 years? What would be something like your Life Achievement goals?

Unknown: 48:57

Yeah, I think we need to have those kind of like bucket lists or or goals or for me, I would this podcast I always say I want to interview like a big name. And then it's it's often this this is a thing in the bucket list. But also as an artist, I really want to, to perform into also like it's it's fun, it's often about, like expanding, you want to perform it in front of big crowd, but I really want to show back on the road. That's also one of the purpose of mine and getting into other many inspiring projects. But I feel I feel I want to connect also with those kind of big comedian that I admire. I have a lot of admiration for Jim Carrey for Sasha Leonard Cohen. I find those funny character and also wonderful also woman all around the world. But those those people who find something really deep into the acting world, that they I want to met them just to get this okay, I met I get to a workshop with this person who I interview them more. For me it's it's really it's part of the connection of the this challenge. So yeah I I'm kind of irritating also I love like TV and cinema and, and bring puppetry in this area is often a good challenge. So um, and kind of I feel like we have been like the bucket list is not a small, it's still big with a lot of project but also to build a business with this podcast and how we can help the community to to find their way of getting the online world and and don't feel set aside or just on the side that I don't understand how and when and how I can manage the the world of online streaming or online promotion. Because it's such an the new and the important way to connect with others online.

Fabian Seewald: 51:27

But I think right now might be the best moment to reach out maybe to these big names because they might also not be as busy as they are normally and yet. It's worth asking. And from the big bucket list. Is there also something that is kind of like your life model your life SR credo that you could share as well for young artists that are currently like studying theatre and saying, Oh, is this the way to go? The arts and culture thing is struggling so much. Is there something that is always like, pushed you forward? And some kind of hints or tips that you could share with our audience to say let's Yeah, let's dig into the arts and some inspirational quotes from Kim. Yeah,

Unknown: 52:06

I have great inspiration quote that I connect with. And I told a bit about, about that at the beginning. It's about like, why are you doing this, like I feel if you can really related on the big why you you will stay in this field more than others. If you'd like for me, I remember also a teacher when I was doing my audition for theatres, police say you are different than other girl like he was speaking to me and it was like you, you're not like, nobody, you are here to change the world and you're like is talk to me So, so aren't and at the same time, so truthful, that I really get it. And I was like, Yeah, that's true, you need to do this, not just in a selfish way. And I think it wasn't the case. But it's just, it was like to connect yourself with a bigger purpose. I want to help others I want to connect with people that I never know, like, I want to, to be able to connect with people maybe I have disagreement with and also be able to love them. And so for me, it's it's deeper than just like just doing for yourself. And I think you can also connect with the definition of art. A lot. Like it's really important to know your word, like what is art. And just this word is often misunderstand, for for many artists, what is art, what is an artist, and if you know for you what it is, you will just be that thing. Like for me art is really to create something aesthetic, really, and have an impact on others not doing something like it's art, it's something meaningful. So yeah, but you have to get the message out there you have to have a vision of the world as an artist you You are not empty you You are a piece of art by your life you you need to be that so it's it's really it seems big but at the same time, it's so easy when you know what it is like what's the difference okay to be an artist, it's to bring beauty to the world. Like how I can be connected with beauty more like maybe I can listen to beautiful music, maybe maybe I can put painting in my house to connect myself with with beautiful thing that I feel it's beautiful for me not for the museum or for for yourself What is beauty for you? What is your message? So I think feel it's, it's really good, I'm kind of preaching or whatever I'm delivering the message, because I feel we have to be truthful and authentic in that job. And that's what I want to bring out. So to artists to make themselves understand that they are not useless, they are essential to the survival of the world. And if you have no beauty, no music, no art, the world will die. And that's so a deep statement for me. But it's so true. And I can really put a lot of admiration into this to just say, okay, artists, stand up and keep going, because it's a duty you need to make the world survive. Oh,

Fabian Seewald: 55:52

well, thanks for this kind of like, manifestation of art of finding this inner calling, finding your inner why and really keep on keep on seeking dive, dive deeper than like answer this question like, what is what is art for you? And I couldn't agree more that like without art, this world would be like a pretty sad place for the artists as important as these bees. It might not be system relevant, but as you said, it's, it's irrelevant and existential for our survival is as creative human, human species.

Unknown: 56:25

So totally, I, I will militate to to bring that message to the world.

Fabian Seewald: 56:34

Oh, wow. That was, yeah, there was a real real treat, I think you you will have to do some more preparation work for the university. But I couldn't Thank you more for this wonderful 60 minutes of inspiration from clowning into puppetry. And as well like how to combine arts, Arts and Business getting like exposure with these online marketing things. And also like envisioning, envisioning, like dream big, that's what what Yes, and thanks so much for that.

Unknown: 57:02

Yeah, thank you to you. We need those platform to communicate those kind of message. And, like when you we express it, I feel we we put an action into it, we change a bit of the world. So thank you for doing this and put that podcast together. That's

Fabian Seewald: 57:21

awesome. Cool. All right. Well, we also put in the show notes, the puppet podcast, check it out, as well. And yeah, we see you soon again at the SeeArts podcast. Thanks for tuning in. That was the entrance to the magical world of puppetry. I really hope you enjoyed this episode. And I really invite you to try to animate objects is such a fun process, not just for kids. And in this sense, let's see art. Let create art and let's stay in touch. Follow us on Instagram at SeeArtsNow, and I see you soon for more inspiration.