The SeeArts Podcast #21 🎭🚀 The Power of Joy 🥳 and the Need for Belonging 🤗 with Radha Agrawal

Radha Agrawal is a shining powerhouse. After experiencing frustration with the nightlife scene, she felt the urge to bring people together and create real connections and community. Wanting to maintain all the things she loved about going out (dancing, creativity, connection) but leave the unsavory spilled drinks and bouncers behind, she launched Daybreaker, a sober early morning dance party that now has over 500K members who participate worldwide.

Radha and Fabian get to know each other during a 2015 San Francisco Daybreaker and the Giant DUNDU was a special surprise for the dancing crowd in the Bay Area. The reconnection after her book launch in Los Angeles while Fabian was performing with the Giants of Light at the World´s Best concluded in a ecstatic dance with Baby Soleil in Radah´s belly and the pandemic invited them to cross the big pond virtually and have DUNDU join the Digital Dance parties.

Radha shares her entrepreneurial spirit with a three step approach how to find a start-up idea and showcases powerfully why the mindset of iteration is perfection helps to get things started. With her fam of Daybreaker she organises massive online dance-outs and strives to build Joy institutes around the globe. You can experience this Joy practise with the on-demand online training D.O.S.E. (14 days for free) that helps you to connect your neurotransmitter into a vibrant cocktail.

In the conversation we covered her journey out of investment banking into becoming a experience designer and community architect, the power of rituals and the need for Belonging.

We also recommend to read her Book Belong which is a masterpiece as even before the pandemic the world has been in a state of disconnection and Belong brings powerful tools into the game to "go in to go out" and illustrates in a very visual way how we have to rethink old structures (updating the pyramid of needs)

45 minutes with the super spreader of energy just dance away and we can't wait to play together again

As if that wasn’t incredible enough, Radha is the Co-Founder of THINX period underwear which she created with her twin sister Miki Agrawal, is launching a new business, LiveItUp, and now she’s launching her new book, Belong, about finding your people, creating meaningful community, and living a more connected life.

Transcript

Radha Agrawal: 0:00

I think most people need things to be perfect to launch women especially. And I think, you know, my mantra is iteration is perfection, right iteration, meaning just make it incrementally better. Right? So 10%, better, 10% better, 10% better. And, and I think we get paralyzed by, by the fear of launching or the fear of starting. So most people leave things on paper forever, until things are perfect. What is holding you back in terms of what you are not good at? And then to go out and seek support and not be afraid to share your idea with the number of young first time entrepreneurs or who tell me like, I can't tell you my idea, but it's a long time, like, no one is gonna steal your idea. So just share it with the world. And you never know someone's gonna like, Oh, I'm good at this. And I'm good at it. I'm good at this. And people begin to help you because you, you courageously put it out there. And I think that's so no one can steal your idea. There's a million ideas in the world. Ideas are cheap. So you know, an idea is only as good as execution.

Fabian Seewald: 1:06

This is Fabian Seewald, your host of the SeeArts podcast and today let's go into the execution mode. With Radha Agrawal, we're exploring the power of entrepreneurship and how she solves through dance and community building large social problems and stays in a state of joy. Welcome to the SeeArts Podcast, we build the bridge between Arts and Business want to inspire you to see arts. Today, we're talking to real super spreader of happiness and energy. It's irata agro out. And we first met back in 2015, at my first Daybreaker in San Francisco, and at that time, this movement was still at the very beginning. And then I had the big chance to reconnect in 2018 in Los Angeles, and from there, my friendship evolved. And in a way the pandemic allowed us to provide a space to digitally continue this collaboration. So I'm very happy to welcome rata Agarwal with us. Radha is a community architect and the chief joy officer at daybreak, she founded several companies and started this morning dance movement called daybreaker. That helps people rise with the right dose of joy. And we want to learn how she builds and bonds communities. And as well, the book she's written belong, in which she shares a lot of content that are especially interesting in these days. And last but not least, how is she managed to stay on top of the game with Daybreak during the pandemic and as well being a loving mom. So Bob, welcome from Stuttgart, to Brooklyn, and thanks for for taking the time.

Radha Agrawal: 2:52

Thank you for having me again. It's so good to be here.

Fabian Seewald: 2:56

Well, to start off into this conversation about Who are you and what is your mission on planet Earth? Wow,

Radha Agrawal: 3:04

I'm a human. First sometimes I wonder I'm an alien. But no, my name is Radha and thank you for the beautiful introduction, I would say that I am am a curious social entrepreneur. And I really, you know, my ultimate mission in life is to solve important social problems. And do it in a way that that are that are fun, and creative and art forward. And I think big topics like isolation, loneliness, big topics, like community building, you know, big topics like dance, it requires just just some real kind of focus on experience design. So I think at the end of the day, I, you know, I would say that I'm an experienced designer, by trade and a community community architect, by sort of interest and passion.

Fabian Seewald: 4:05

Well, that's, that's wonderful. And on your journey through life, what were special inflection points when you realize community and like this feeling of togetherness and connectedness is so add to cover some time and he really felt this connection in order to stay Okay, this has to change and like what gives you this energy to bond people to get in the unique way that you're doing it?

Radha Agrawal: 4:28

Yeah, was the first any I think in my own life, you know, and I think all of us listening right now probably has moments in your life where you look yourself in the mirror and you say, do I belong? Where are my people? How can I really feel that sense of I'm home, right? And I think we feel that in our mother's womb, right when we're in there, perfectly connected to somebody that perfectly in this union. And the moment we leave her womb, you're sort of like in this bright light. In this crazy room and all of a sudden are wondering, like, what just happened, you know, and I think our whole lives, we're sort of rediscovering what, what belonging really means. And we go through so many different inflections in our lives, like so many points in our lives, we move to a new city, we go to school, we fall in love, we have children, we move again, we need to retire, there's moments in our lives where we don't know who we are, who our people are, where we belong, and, especially right now, and with pandemic, I think it's so front and center, you know, when I wrote my book, you know, we won in for humans had zero friends to confide in. And that number had tripled in 30 years. And now, you know, with COVID, it's one in two humans are, well, every single person are socially isolated. And, but one in two humans are really facing deep, deep isolation, loneliness, and, and this is a global pandemic, that's going to far outlive COVID. And so, to really focus all of our attention, in on community building on belonging, and doing it in a way that's not like, like, painful and like, you know, like therapy vibes, you know, that really feels like therapy through the lens of fun, and dance, and movement, and play and joy, and colors, and lights, and costumes, and all of that, I think that's really, you know, how you return to our childlike state of wonder how you return to sort of the authentic version of ourselves before we became adult, you know, quote, unquote. And I think that's really, for me, the most important thing to focus on in life right now.

Fabian Seewald: 6:53

Yeah, I can totally agree that this the sense of curiosity that we as parents like experience with our kids, how can we also integrate this into our daily life into daily rituals, but also also shared through it and in a certain way, you will belong in 2017 2018. And in a way, for me, I've been reading it as well through the pandemic. And it's really like, in a way as well, a blueprint, how to get through it, and you share, you're sharing the concept of going into go out? Can you explore this a bit more? Because as you said, everybody's currently in the state of social isolation? Why do we have to go in? Why can Why is it actually maybe a chance that we should face with gratitude to go in because it's, for the first time, the time that we have the time, so please share a bit of going into go out.

Radha Agrawal: 7:40

So thank you for highlighting that. So going in to my whole mantra in life is you have to go in to go out. And I think so often, when people try to make friends or build community, they're just sort of already in the phase of where my people and they're just grasping, right, versus taking the time. And COVID has been such an incredible time to just excavate and take the time that we all have needed to just sit down soft in our bellies, and just take a moment to like, just breathe into our bellies, a softness, our bellies, right. So if everyone do that with me right now, just a beautiful inhale and just feel a hand on your belly and just soften your belly. And when you just return to that softness, you're not tensing all the time. Right? What What does your belly want? And where does it feel most just connected and belonging. And so that's really what going in is about is just softening your belly, and really doing this gentle self awareness exploration. So going in and asking yourself, what are the qualities that I'm looking for in a friend? What are the qualities? I don't want to friend? How do I need to show up in order to attract the friends that I want? What do I value? What are my personal core values today? What am I interested in? In this moment? And for the next few years? What am I really good at? What can I actually bring? What are my abilities? Right? So there's some you know, what, what am I really calling in right now in terms of my intentions in my life, and, you know, I have about 20 exercises in my book, but but it's like, just, you know, if you don't even get my butt just to do this, this work of like, what do I value today? And, and I think today, all of us are valuing human relationship over things like a Rolex watch, or like a fancy car more than anything in the world, right? Like, doesn't matter if you're rich or poor. We're all in the same boat together. And I think we all are coming home to this idea that we all value connection and human relationships and even those who self proclaimed as introverts, which, you know, I would say I'm an I always have a metaverse, right. introverts, extroverts, you know, we are all those things, we begin to realize that it doesn't matter. You know, where you feel like you live on this Drum, we all need human interaction to be happy and, and just sitting with that and finding gratitude and and just that realization is just a beautiful first step. I think for me this this time during COVID was the first time I ever saw leadership coach and 41 years. And I finally had the courage to face myself to face my demons face, my past, you know, sort of my ancestral kind of passing downs, like what's been passed down for me, from generation to generation in terms of just, you know, Indian patriarchal rage, you know, to Japanese stoic kind of avoidance. And I think, you know, I've been working on that I think, in this body for from all my life, so I feel like I've, I'm moving through it, and also to face myself as a leader to look at sort of where my blind spots are to really connect to where I could be a better partner, leader or supporter. For my team, for my friends and beyond, is been a very vulnerable, very tender experience. And, you know, and, and I think it's interesting, like, you know, when you build a community, you take time to go in for yourself, that's one thing, but then when you go in for yourself, to then be better to serve others, that's even another thing, right? So, um, so yeah, to go into excavate all your things, to connect to who you are the qualities that you want to embody, in order to then radiate the authentic version of yourself to then attract the humans that you really want, which is what I did from 30 years old, I felt like totally lonely and alone, I look myself in the mirror, my 30th birthday, and I was like, Oh, my God, I'm lonely. And I don't know who my people are, I don't even recognize myself anymore, to now at 42. And to feel such a depth of connection to my community, to have focus and prioritized friendships and belonging as, like a must have not a nice to have, that changed my life. Like I think we prioritize career, romantic love, family, and then friends. So I have so many friends who just let all their friendships go and they became parents, and completely just became workaholics and parent holics. And forgot about their friend and only maybe saw their friends at their children's birthday parties or whatever. And they're so miserable. And, and, and until we begin to reprioritize hanging out with our friends and spending leisure time with, with people our own in our own sort of areas of interests and values, we are going to continue just feeling like unhappy feeling. Feeling lonely and isolated, even sleeping next to someone at home, you know, unless we begin to really balance out our lives and every in every way.

Fabian Seewald: 13:08

Super well said and talking about this reprioritization you also challenged Abraham Maslow in your book, and you showed a new, a new pyramid of needs, the aggro version of the hierarchy of of needs. And instead of self actualization, you put joy on top of the pyramid. And I think it's really like as well aligning with joy with your family joy, in love and in your love life. But as well, joy with your children, like there are so many different roles, but joy is really how I like understand it, it's at your soul at your heart at the at the center of your actions.

Radha Agrawal: 13:45

That's right, that's right. I think self actualization sort of feels still connected to this internal experience. Whereas joy is such a sort of shared internal and external sort of fully kind of expressed experience. And, and so yeah, I just wanted to, you know, and I think also what Abraham Maslow wrote, his argument was 1943, you know, there was a lot of studies that hadn't been done at a time on belonging, loneliness, isolation, we hadn't really even understood the nuclear family until the 50s. And the 60s and the 70s. You know, like, people still live very much generationally at the time. And so I think loneliness isolation has become such a prevalent thing with social media, with Internet with computers with, you know, sort of moving to bigger cities, everyone moving away from their families. So there's a lot that has happened since 1943. When Maslow wrote his hierarchy of needs, so to sort of still live in that paradigm really denies where we are today, and denies just all the advancements, beautiful advancements, but also the new needs that we want to really prioritize as we ascend to our greatest heights. So that's really what, what I wanted to do not to you not to just not say what he said is, is not right. But to say that we've evolved since.

Fabian Seewald: 15:10

Yeah. And the joy that you're bringing out on the dance floors. Let's let's go back to I think it was in 2013 2014 when you started Daybreak or how did you come up with the idea, tell us a little bit about the concept. And then let's also head to march 2020. Like, it was, well, for us, we didn't do a tipping point, we're just in the States, different things happening. Take us on this roller coaster. And as well how the journey is going on from there.

Radha Agrawal: 15:38

Yeah, so you know, 2013 just a different time in life I feel like when I was 34, single living in New York City, entrepreneur building my underwear company with my sister and friend. THINX and, and, and just going out nightlife you know, even as we miss it now, and 2020 - We're like, God, I can't wait for nightlife you know, to reopen again. But at the time, it just was, you know, becoming more and more toxic, it was very unsafe for women, for me to feel like I could fully let go the dance floor without without feeling an invitation to some drunk or drug, you know, induced do to try to, you know, whatever, dance all over man, and also, many women I know felt the same way. So it was sort of a more toxic environment, everyone's sort of zombies on this new these new designer drugs that are out. Just DJs pushing button, just a very kind of dark experience. While also exciting, like, you're going out, your friends are dressing up, you feel hot, you feel fun, you're dancing. It's an exciting environment. So there's all this beauty of nightlife, there's all this like beautiful arts of nightlife, the music, the dance, the dressing up the community, the connection, letting your hair down and just relaxing all of that. But then when you mix it with the kind of the codependence with I need to be drunk, I need to have drugs I need to like, you know, be sort of like on substances to have a good time. That's when shit hit the fan, you know? And so it was all about like, how do we actually break that codependence between having fun nightlife, dressing up all the fun stuff? And the and the drugs and alcohol just like what if we just, you know, broke them apart? And and, and in order to do that, what if we did in the morning, you know, when the sun, you know, came up when your circadian rhythms, you know, we're telling you to be most energized, and we're telling you to be most optimistic and social. So we launched daybreaker, as a social experiment as an art project to really, you know, to really, to really see like, would people wake up at sunrise on a weekday morning before going to work? And, you know, consume green juice instead of alcohol, and dance their faces off sober, like, Can we train our brains to release our natural high without substances and I call that your dose and and that was a eureka moment, as I was kind of researching our happy neuro chemicals in our brains. And I was like, Oh my gosh, our four happy neuro chemicals spells out the word dose. And dose is about drugs and dosing on whatever, whatever, you know, on X, Y, and Z. And anyway, and so and by the way, like, I'm not like a sober person, like, I definitely believe in sort of the medicinal side of, of experience of the experience of, you know, kind of psychedelics and all of that world. And I can speak, you know, volumes on on that side of things when done in the right container in a very safe environment, with the right people with the right you know, the right experience, design, all of that. We just do it recreationally. It was popping pills have a good time. Like, that's just that's just, you know, that's just cheap highs, cheap, fun, like cheap, you know, cheap living, you know, and so if we can begin to cultivate our own natural dose, we can cultivate a way to create an experience people can naturally release their, their happy hormones, their happy neuro chemicals. That was the Eureka moment like, what if we reverse engineered dance parties to actually help people release their natural quartet of neurochemicals, but it looks like a party and it looks like there's like aerialist and fire spinners and do and do puppets and all these cool things and like, you know, all the things that you would see at a party, but we sprinkle in all of these ingredients and all this experience design around it. so that by the time you leave you've you've released your serotonin, you've released your dopamine you're released oxytocin, you're released endorphins and then you just leave me like I've never felt more happy. In my life, you know, and you go to work and you're skipping and you're happy, and I, and I think if every experienced designer listening out there every artist who wants to create an experience for others to enjoy, really thought through the lens of like our animal brains, because that's really what we are these, like, just these animals dressing up in outfits and like, you know, making, you know, beautiful art in the world, but like, we're very simple creatures at the end of the day, right. And it's like, if we can just support each and every person to understand their neurochemical release their, what makes them individually happy. And of course, that's different for every single person. You know, that's actually, you know, the best way to design an experience. And, yeah, and so and so that's really what I, what I'm teaching now is just like, you know, how to support other experienced designers and artists, to not just think about selling tickets, and like, getting rsvps, or, like, creating art for the sake of creating art, which is beautiful and important. But what if you created art, that also had a secondary sort of result of supporting humans in just firing different different feelings and different sort of pewpewpew you know, like, that's, that, that's, that, to me, is really exciting art, and Uncharted art, you know?

Fabian Seewald: 21:25

Yeah. And I experienced it, well, two times, two times, vividly, but are now also in the in the online experience, but daybreaker, it took off in like, around 30 cities around the globe. So also, like, interculturally, I think dance is a very important stimulus for for this amazing joy. And I couldn't agree more to the fact that like, you walk out of this experience, and then like, you have the full day to, well, to nominate, after this feeling, you go to sleep, but then you have this full day of positive energy to, to bring to the world to bring to your family, to your community. Anything that's so was so amazing.

Radha Agrawal: 22:00

And I think for me, you know, it was so wild. And I think for all of us, it was just like, Wow, there are over 500,000 people now who are interested in waking up at sunrise in 30 cities around the world, to, to experience life in a new way. It's when we blew up and grew that fast. And, and people began to, like, invite us into their countries and their cities. And it would be Angela, that was when I was like, oh, wow, like, this is a movement, a movement towards the light, you know, and then it's like to work with doing do now, you know, around light art and, and, and then to come online when COVID happened, you know, and and to then launch livestream experiences. And then to really, again, come back to the first question we launched in 2013. of like, how do we design an experience in a 2d box environment? I can't just, you know, put a video on a club scene and just be like, Okay, great, we're gonna shoot this, and then hopefully the bargain, I feel the same feelings. We just don't experience the same feelings. And I think lots of people are doing that they're just throwing a camera up, and then expecting the same feeling. And people are just, you know, bored with it. Right? So I think what you've done so beautifully with dunu. And what we've done, I think very thoughtfully, is really think about how can we actually maximize and optimize the 2d environment to really create the most potent experience for people in an online virtual environment. So we spent months and months and months learning about all the technologies that exist on live stream, all the different ways in which we can create, like affirmations wheels around the screen, where we can throw me on top of your screen, so I can, we can be dancing together, but like the technology exists, is that we can do that now. You know, where there's like ways to chat, right? You know, so many ways to hold up different signs holder photos, like, what are the interactive elements that we can bring into the experience, to really, you know, really maximize the 2d landscape. And I think, you know, we've succeeded in really refining it, but I think it continues to be a process, you know, and it's going to continue until we all become, you know, virtual. I don't know, like, robots will begin these VR VR machines, which hopefully never happens.

Fabian Seewald: 24:23

And on this journey towards like, on this creative pivot towards the digital space, what were like the biggest aha moments on the one hand side, the biggest hormones are this is actually working online and in some parts, maybe even better. But what are also some limits of technology because we are this simple animals in a way we all have the same or similar biology. Tell us a little bit about these learnings and as well it's an ongoing process and I think like every day a new platform comes out and like new ideas pop up. I think so far like in this 10 months. You did a great job already.

Radha Agrawal: 25:00

Well, thank you. Well, we just launched our new membership dose, which is a membership platform where we, where we practice joy. And I think that's where I was just like, Okay, how do we help people practice joy every single day. And I think that's the real for me, that's the ultimate sort of service, which is like, how, you know, we do once a month, parties online, which is really fun and really epic. But, but to really help people form new habits in this 2d environment, we have to be there with them every day. 24/7, and, you know, people talk about 21 day challenges, that's a great way to kickstart a new habit. But habits can need to be continuously watered, right, and so. And so that's been, for me, the biggest kind of new focus is just how do we actually serve and support our community and practicing joy every single day. So, you know, you look at the yoga practice, you look at meditation practice, but there literally isn't a practice for joy. So that's really what we're doing now. So we launched dose, which is a joy practice, and you want this to eventually become as ubiquitous as, like, you see joy studios, like these yoga studios, I want you to go into a joy studio. And you can basically like, you know, practice, you can dance, you can do graduate practice, you can do journaling, you can do tapping practices, you can do Qi Gong, you can do, you know, color, color, sort of therapy, you can do all kinds of different things, to practice joy, scent therapy, you know, you can go into, like smell lavender, and just like, just get your whole again, we're animals. And so the 2d environment, the, you know, the difficulty is that you can't smell you can't taste, you can't touch, but you can always touch yourself and self massage are something that we're we're launching on our platform to teach people how to, you know, as a joy, practice, how to self massage, how to invite oxytocin into your bodies. And we're inviting people to just create sense in their homes to like, really, like, invite more beautiful aromas into their spaces, while they practice joy with us. We do gratitude journaling, we do all kinds of different things inside of the movement practices. And so that has been, I think, for me the biggest new challenge for what we're, what I what I'm sort of thinking about every single day, which is how can we make the joy practice joy practice, the next big thing that the world at large practices, because Yoga is not for everyone, you know, yoga, you can't if you're if you have bad knees, or you have your elder or you're a young little kid, like there's, you know, there's limitations around it. I love yoga, I practice almost every day. But I also see lots of friends and family members who can't practice. Same thing with meditation, just sitting while I love meditation. sitting meditation is also not for everybody. Well, what can we create that as ubiquitous to humanity, and that is practicing joy, you know, and so and so I'm very much and by the way, like yoga and meditation are both part of the joy practice. So we have very much both of the practice inside the the joy experience, but I just am so focused on, you know, what is the rounded out experience for a daily joy practice, that the whole world that humans, whether you're from India, or Africa, or Bhutan, or, or China or, or Brazil, or or Stuttgart, you know, or New York City, can can align on and practice and feel like that same sense of like, wow, I'm so connected, I feel so alive, I feel so in belonging, my body isn't like hurting, it's glistening, it's filled with energy. It's not sore from doing too many reps of something, you know? And, and I just, I just feel so committed to that.

Fabian Seewald: 29:01

I can't wait to have joy studio and start going like going around the world and seeing these joy studios pop up. And I think that's really like, another great vision. So I love this, this part, the sparkling eyes. And talking about these, these great visions. You're an artist during community architect, community builder, but as an entrepreneur, how do you combine these two hats? You love hats as well, but how is it sometimes you're so like, into just just doing it? But at some point, maybe it's Eli? But like, when are you putting on the business glasses ? Is this just something happening on the way because the idea is so great, because you founded several companies, because the podcast is about the bridge between Arts and Business. And so it's always interesting. How do you get this business side into the game?

Radha Agrawal: 29:48

So no, very much the business side is also me. And Eli is more on the partnership side and this development but no, I like being a female talking about business because I think that's also a way for us to really educate and let other female artists, and just entrepreneurs and wellness enthusiasts and entrepreneurs in general know that it's not just for men to do but women to really, to own as well. And, yeah, I mean, my background is I was an investment banker out of college, I was in finance for years. And so I'm not afraid of numbers. And I think, you know, most people in the world of arts, there's, and I continue to find myself more like, I will be like, I, you know, I hate looking at spreadsheets, but like, as you begin to sort of, imagine a life of art for yourself, it's so important to know, what is the business around it. And I think so many artists don't know how to turn an art project into a profitable business and build a team that can lead you to, to that. And I think that's really one of the areas that I love supporting artists on, and just people in the wellness space too, because while you know, people yoga teachers also are often, you know, very bad at making money, you know, so it's like, what, what do you how do we actually teach them? So the first thing I always say is, you know, are you the best person to be? The face of the thing? Right? And so if you're doing dunu, for example, I think you're a fantastic face from the thing. But what if you were shy, and you were dating and like, and you weren't, you know, you couldn't? Like, is it you the best person to be the CEO. And I think so many people in the space of the arts, they don't know enough about sort of, like, organizational sort of, like alignment. And so people don't always know their role. And I'm having trouble with this, I have trouble with this all the time with, with just with just people thinking that they should, they should be in roles that they are, that's not in their zone of genius. So just to really align on what your zone of genius is, and then finding the best people who aren't going to step on your toes who don't do the same things that you do. So like, if you find a puppeteer is like I love dunu. And I, you know, like, I'm also up to, then they're stepping on your toes, like you want someone who's has business acumen, who's going to come in and teach you how to do. So I just think that understanding. You know, where that where that is in your org chart is so important. And for us, it's like daybreaker, makes money selling tickets, selling sponsorships, and now memberships. And we look and see, okay, great in order to get to if we want, if we want to hit this revenue benchmark, we need to get to 10,000 members, to get 10,000 members, we need to work backwards, we need to get at least 1000 members each month on the platform. Well, how do we do that? Facebook advertising, there's a digital advertising, affiliate partnerships, podcast, whatever, whatever, whatever, right? So it's like, you know, you go and you and you do the thing. And, and I think there's a fear around, especially with art, you're so close to it. And it's such a tender piece of yourself, that to sell it at a talk about it, it just feels like gross, and embarrassing and hard. But if you can put like imagine yourself with like, a, and that's what I do all the time, I just literally imagine it put on like a spacesuit, you know, and I'm just like Rado, you're not selling your art and your thing, but you're actually selling a practice that's gonna help millions of people. And that it's not about you, like getting someone to pay. But it's really you offering an affordable service for anybody to be able to come and do. And so like, how can I put that hat on? not replacing, asking from a place of I'm serving you. So I think that's really what most artists forget to do. It's more like, Hey, will you buy my painting? Or will you like, support my puppet versus like, Listen, I'm going to, like, I'm going to make your team 10 times more productive by having doodoo there, because they're going to be so open creatively. And there's going to be such a mass opening for them in their, their, in their channels, that you're going to have new sort of, you know, creative brainstorming with your team that you've never had before, whatever it may be, is that but it's like, you know, so I just think that, you know, selling is really hard for artists and then learning how to do that is it from the from the place of service is, is has been, for me the most, the most helpful and, and then creating something that people want. Like, it's like the three questions I asked in business is like, what sucks in your world? Does it suck for a lot of people? So like, you know, what, daybreaker what sucks in my world? Well, women don't like to go out at night clubbing because, you know, it's a very predatory environment. fucked up. It's like annoying and whatever. So it's like not a not a positive environment. So does it suck for me? Yes, I love grant dancing, but it sucks to go out to suck for a lot of people. Yes. Everyone I talked to it sucks for so. And then the third question is, can I be passionate about this issue cause or community for at least 10 years. And because that's how long a business will take to launch. And if you're like just launching a T shirt company, or if you're just launching a thing that like no one other than you is interested in, then it's not a business, just the passion project. And you just have to know the difference. So I think that's really forgetting delineation between the passion project and a scalable business.

Fabian Seewald: 35:43

That helps a lot to also say, like, can you stick to it? And it's, it's also like, it's this area of genius that you did you see yourself and then as well, at some point, building a team around yourself that it's like mutually pushing, pushing each other to towards like the next big thing towards towards higher goals. Well, thanks, thanks for these business insights.

Radha Agrawal: 36:04

Last thing I want to say is don't take money from people who are not 100% aligned with your vision. I've had multiple hostile takeovers, I've had co founders drain my bank accounts I've had, you know, I've had, I mean, you name it, I've dealt with it. And I've, you know, I've had, I've launched and built, you know, five or six businesses in the last 20, you know, 20 years, and I've seen it all. And the biggest thing is, don't give away your art to an investor that is going to flat dangle millions of dollars in front of you, that takes away all of your control takes away all of your and so many artists, I know, so many artists, I know will sign bad deals, because they're excited about getting checks signed. But the end result is years of suffering for a net sort of negative game. So and so it's, it's better to know that upfront and still be kind of sort of a struggling artist, then sign a bad deal, and have years of misery. So I've learned that lesson very much the hard way. And yeah, and so and so, fortunately, I sold one of my companies last year, and it was a really exciting experience. And so you have great moments, and you have moments of deep pain and struggle, and but the most important thing is having the courage to start in the first place and pick yourself back up. And keep doing it again, and keep doing it again and keep doing it again, and and never lose sight of who you are. And

Fabian Seewald: 37:47

yes, sometimes really, as well, the art of letting go of some things to refocus. I think that's also important because sometimes with all these crazy ideas popping up, what's like the major focus areas and what are just some fun side passion project in order to really well go steep and and go go all in on sounds because I think like with just 20% here, 20% there, you won't be fully engaged. And you also hard to attract the people that say, Okay, let's go rather let's go Fabian to to launch that. I'm really impressed, especially about the daybreaker. community. And do y'all have also some some secrets? How do you build communities? How do you make them grow? How do you create in a way as well, like an own dynamic? For example, Shawn, he is preparing great audio mixes. And he's asking people I send your favorite songs. And so like how do you create this own dynamic in the system that you kind of like you give a starting impose you hold the frame, but from there on? The magic is happening? Is there some secrets? Yeah.

Radha Agrawal: 38:47

I mean, I just think, you know, the first thing you do is you create an experience that people want to be part of, and it's like it just like focused, thoughtful, intentional experience design. And if you do that you have your first 200 adopters, but those 200 adopters are handpicked. So it's like, for example, with I'm with with Daybreak away first launch in 2013, we I invited I wrote down on an Excel spreadsheet 300 names of people that I knew that friends knew, knew knew, you know, here and there that I was like, oh, they're gonna be positive, excited about this. They're gonna, if you create a centrifuge, like, just a starting point, with 300 names of people that are gonna be like, that's a stupid idea, like or like, you know, that are going to be like, I'm not going and they're going to spread Bad Juju to other people. If you're going to like I call an FYFs. Fuck yeah, friends in my book, you know? So like, write down a list of 300 people who were like, sure I'd wake up at 6am to go dancing on a weekday sober, like I'll totally try that one time. Why not, you know, so I wrote that down. And 180 of those 300 people show that, and that intentionality and the energetic mix of who is the first adopters who are the first people to bring that energy. So that that first one was so lit, so beautiful because it was so curated and thoughtful. The second one, when, when three people came, the 180 came again, they had such a good time. But now the 150 that came and made it 300 they're now experiencing the glow, and the halo of this beautiful energy that was created from the very beginning. And then you grow the movement from this centrifuge of energy, you know, so if you just like, how many tickets can I sell, and like, I'm having an event and anybody come, please, it's like, you're never gonna build a movement that way. But if you really pay attention to the, to the, to this core community, and you grow from there, that core will be the backbone of, of the movement.

Fabian Seewald: 41:05

Yeah, and it's, I think, especially in the digital space curation is so important, but as well, I experienced as well as a sort of ritual and how, how would you say like, the rituals that work in the analog world? How can you create these, these rituals, these kind of like bonding experience, these merge, when you really feel connected? Despite it's just the screen and the camera? How do you see the importance of rituals? And what's the difference between rituals, online and offline?

Radha Agrawal: 41:33

Totally. So rituals are the backbone of lasting communities. So you can start a community, right and kickstart a community by doing these types of sort of practices. But unless you have a ritual built into your community, your community won't last over time. The reason why the church is so popular and huge and big is because they have the Bible and you sit in pews and there's sermons and there's you know, all the things right and and and why football you know, watching football these you wear jerseys and everywhere the thing and the thing and like you go to the stadium and every chance and you know, the wave and all of that, right with rituals around that. So, for us, it was like, Okay, how do we create a ritual in a, in a, you know, in a club environment. So that was one piece of it. We had a hugging committee, welcome you with a hug at the door. We had, you know, the ritual of reading intention cards. At the end, we had all these moments inside the dance experience where we had what we call wild moments every 15 minutes. From an aerialist, a puppeteer, a fire spinner, you know, dueling saxophone, this whatever. For the for the live experience, and, and that ritual, people knowing that there's going to be all of these things happening throughout the experience, but didn't know what it was or when it was gonna happen, or what the theme was, or what you know where the venue was. So you keep the mystery, right. So it's like ritual with mystery, right is actually where all of the juice lies. If it's just the same thing over and over again, eventually the church dies, because nobody wants to keep going back and same thing over and over again. But it's rituals that you can count on things happening every time. Combined with mystery rites of mystery and ritual safety, mystery and safety. That's the soup for lasting community and movement building. So So ritual daybreaker online, we have so many moments like, like, we always open with a movement practice and get you warmed up with a dose class, which is sometimes I lead or a yoga practice or a dance class, it just get you get the cobwebs out, you know, we open with a with a beautiful, just an intention around Yeah, that warm up, followed by a dance party. But inside the dance party, we have like, show us where you're from, where are these people where you're from, you know, show us a photo of someone that you're missing. Let's have all these wonderful dance moments where we, you know, where we do. Everybody leading the community and having their moment to shine. So like there's all these wonderful collective rituals built into the experience that make the sort of coming back. So beautiful, but then the mystery of like, oh, what's the theme going to be this time? Who's the DJ? What are the wow moments? What's the intensives are going to be like, what's the you know, all the elements are different, but the rituals are the same. So that combination is actually the key now.

Fabian Seewald: 44:34

Yeah, it looks like in front of my imaginary idea is this cocktail of mystery and ritual and like, the right the right dose in a way that again, like is, is creating all of the magic.

Radha Agrawal: 44:48

That's right, exactly.

Fabian Seewald: 44:49

burrata. You really took us on on a journey of how to spread joy how to build community with an artistic view, but as well the business classes in employment, he also shared a bit of divisions down down the road. Well, last but not least, you already shared a bit like how you have to observe the world to come up with these great ideas. But it's also something how do you take immediate action on these ideas? How do you get new ideas, but also how to start realizing them? Do you have some creativity hacks for that as well?

Radha Agrawal: 45:23

So I think the first day, I mean, again, it just, I mean, I think most people need things to be perfect to launch women especially. And I think, you know, my mantra is iteration is perfection, right? iteration, meaning just make it incrementally better, right. So 10%, better, 10%, better, 10% better. And, and I think we get paralyzed by, by the fear of launching, or the fear of starting. So most people leave things on paper forever, until things are perfect. And, and I I take a very masculine approach, which is like, let's just launch this thing, and then we will make it better. And we'll learn and we're going to make you know, and then we're going to get so many more, you know, beta testers experience of it, and that will strengthen it, and so on and so forth. So I think that's, you know, men enters a raging stat men are more likely to launch things when it's just an idea on a napkin. Men are also more likely to be hired when it's an idea napkin, whereas women have to show proof of their experience and proof of like, all these different wins that they've had in the past. And women themselves feel like they need to be perfect to launch things. And so there's just a very divergent way in which women and men do business in general. And I just think that it's so important for women to begin realizing that if we just started, and I'm so not afraid of just starting and seeing and like, if I fall flat on my face, I fall on my face a million times, still got a face, you know, like, I'll get up and do it again, and have fun in the process. And so I think step one is just recognizing when you're being a perfectionist, and when you just want to launch something, what is holding you back in terms of what you are not good at, and then go out and seek support and not be afraid to share your idea with the number of young first time entrepreneurs or who tell me like, I can't tell you my idea, but it's a long time, like, no one is gonna steal your idea. So just share it with the world. And you never know, someone's going to, oh, I'm good at this, and I'm good at it. I'm good at this. And people begin to help you because you, you courageously put it out there. And I think that's so no one can steal your idea. There's a million ideas in the world ideas are cheap. So you know, an idea is only as good as execution, and to launch and make it better incrementally. Like that's and then and then you know, if you can just let that be your mantra. It just gets really fun. It just gets so fun and so easy. And, and, and if you continue to see things as an experiment, and I always say daybreaker is a consistent is a constant experiment. We're not like, you know, this, isn't it? It's like we're constantly experimenting, and some experiments fail. And some experiments succeed. Like if we begin to if we continue to have that as our mindset then it'll constantly also be the fun and and curiosity inducing,

Fabian Seewald: 48:34

magically the magic of iteration thanks so much for for sharing this well was startup spirit and especially also encouraging all the women out there to to start now start simple, don't don't look always for the perfection but really start and and also Yeah, you're right an idea is, is cheap, in a way because if you don't execute, it will just like die on the integrator of all of these ideas. And that's the worst thing that could happen to an idea. So open up and, and share it. Well, thanks a lot for for sharing your wisdom selves so openly without will last but not least, is there any like last words of wisdom, last words of motivation, especially for these times that you would like to share with our artists, with our community builders, with all these dynamics out there to keep on shining and rolling? Yeah, I

Radha Agrawal: 49:23

think the biggest piece of wisdom I can share is especially for artists who are, you know, just sort of often just sitting in a chair all day, is you can't really move creativity unless you're moving your body. And so to really remember that your body is your brain and to practice joy not just through your mind, but through brain body modalities and practices and whether that's just doing a one some dance party, every hour in your space, whether just getting up and just just doing a sunrise Halo or just, you know, just figuring out ways to To invite body science into your everyday joy practice. That's really that's really the ticket to joy and happiness and creativity.

Fabian Seewald: 50:16

I'll buy the ticket of happiness and joy. Yeah, let's get up move our body and connection mind body and our cell. Keep it shining. Well, thanks so much rata for for being on the car podcast and we're looking forward to dance on and hopefully very soon as well in the real world until then we assume decay five. I feel so inspired now. So many interesting thoughts about how to start something how to not try to be perfect, but really iterate, but as well like the importance of joy like this inner state of creativity, but also connectedness with the rest of us, please yeah, share this episode and follow us on Instagram @SeeArtsNow and le's soon meet at a daybreaker an dance it out loud