Healing Is A Choice: Choose Life with Lauren Starnes

One sentence can split your life into before and after: “If you keep doing what you’re doing, you will die.” That’s the moment Amy Watson remembers from a visit with Lauren Starns, a medically trained physician assistant turned nervous system specialist, and it becomes the doorway into a deeper conversation about trauma, the body, and what it really takes to get free.

We talk about why so many high-functioning people with PTSD, chronic stress, and burnout live in their heads while their bodies carry the cost. Lauren explains how the nervous system holds what we were not resourced to process, and why healing often works better when we stop obsessing over the trauma narrative and start listening to what is happening in the present. Amy connects that to trauma science, the window of tolerance, and what it looks like when the thinking brain goes offline and survival takes over.

We also dig into co-regulation and why humans cannot heal in isolation. Connection is not a bonus feature, it is biology. When someone else’s steady presence helps your system settle, you can finally access choice, build resources, and decide what comes next with clarity. If you want practical language for the mind-body connection, nervous system regulation that doesn’t feel like a trend, and a path toward a healthier, abundant, free life, press play.

Subscribe for the next conversations, share this with someone who feels stuck, and leave a review so more people can find the support they need.

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Transcript

Choose Life Or Choose Death

SPEAKER_02 0:03

I've had this conversation with other humans. This is just part of where we end up sometimes. Is you have to have these conversations where it's like, but you're going to die. Like you're you're on the path of choosing death. And so like that is what was so, you know, powerful about that conversation between us is like it's a moment where two people, like you said, aligned by God to be in the right place at the right time, get to have the conversation. Where it's like, what will you choose? Will you choose your life and to begin making choices that move you towards living? Or will you choose this? And I I promise you I know where this path ends.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

All right, so I am here with my friend Lauren Starns. Lauren, welcome to the Wednesdays with Watson Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Hey Amy, good to see you.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Welcome back to the Wednesdays with Watson Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Yeah, it's good to be back on here. I enjoyed last time, and I know we're stepping into something even better this time.

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Yeah, for those of you who are listening, if you've not heard the original episode that Lauren and I did, it is we'll leave it in the show notes. But I had the opportunity, Lauren and I spent some time together talking about When the Body Talks, which is a program that Lauren has. So you can go back and listen to that. But there's lots of updates, Lauren, since then. I think some things have evolved for you, and I completed a doctorate degree. And so before we like jump into the series, which I think is very much still kind of developing in our minds, I wanted my listeners to get to know you. And so, but I wanted to start that the introduction of you. You know, there are these moments. I'm gonna try not to cry, but we might both cry on these podcasts.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

I think we I think we will cry. I think we will cry.

The Office Visit That Changed Amy

SPEAKER_03 2:10

But I had known I've known you for many, many years. You worked as a physician's assistant for my uh psychiatrist. Um, and so I would often see you instead of him. And but I don't remember much about you except for this one day that really changed everything for me, and I do mean everything. And I think that uh for those of you listening out there, don't ever underestimate when you are in your purpose doing your thing, working in the thing that you were created to do. Sometimes sometimes somebody will come across your purview where God has put you in that spot to make a huge difference. And Lauren, that happened for me that day. And I was able to add you to a long list of people that when people ask me, How are you okay? And I always tell people it it was God and his people. And so before I introduce you, I'm going to let you tell that story because I think I told it on the last episode that we did together. What do you remember about first of all? Do you remember the day that I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Oh, yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

So talk to me. Talk to me. What do you remember about that day?

SPEAKER_02 3:34

Yeah, and I and I will I'll share. I I would love for us to like kind of both share a little bit, you know, because I I think it was powerful. And you know, I would just frame it this way. I would say that day was like the beginning of how we ended up here, right? That that is the beginning moment of why we are now doing what we're doing together, what's coming on this podcast now, what's you know, building in our lives to work on together. Like that is the ground zero moment of how you and I connected, just as much as it is like a beginning moment for you stepping into a different journey, you know, like in your life. It was impactful to your life's path and to the creation that we're in now. So, you know, like like you said, there are just these moments when you work on psychiatry. I mean, when you work in healthcare in general, like you are there to be of service to humans, but like especially working in psychiatry, like you get to be with people through so many of the worst moments of their life, which is a gift and an honor and such a vulnerable place to get to step in and connect with people. Um, but it is not every day that you get to sit with someone and have um, and you're not the only one I've had this conversation with. You are special to me. You are so special to me, and I've I've had this conversation with other humans. This is just part of where we end up sometimes. Is you have to have these conversations where it's like, but you're going to die. Like you're you're on the path of choosing death. And so, like, that is what was so you know powerful about that conversation between us is like it's a moment where two people, like you said, aligned by God to be in the right place at the right time, get to have the conversation where it's like, what will you choose? Will you choose your life and to begin making choices that move you towards living? Or will you choose this? And I I promise you, I know where this path ends.

unknown 5:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

And so it was huge. And like you said, you and I had known each other for years, but we'd never known each other in such a vulnerable, connected way as we did from that point on.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Yeah, and I think it's important to note here. So I walked into the office. Gosh, I don't even remember when this was it, right? It was after COVID.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

2021, maybe?

SPEAKER_03 6:08

Yeah, 2021, 2022. I had not started grad school yet.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah, one of those two years, somewhere in that.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

But I walked in, and yeah, you said, you know, if you if you keep doing what you're doing, which was a whole lot of nothing, I just kept, you know, doubling down on all the things, and I just was running myself in the ground, both psychologically and physically, and really not. And one of the things, listeners, that you're going to fall in love with about Lauren is she does a lot of education about body work, like it begins and ends in our bodies. And one of my favorite things you told me that day, and I have said it over and over to patients of my own, was you said to me, because while I'm the trauma doc, Lauren is a nervous system specialist, a nervous system translator. I think we were coming up with. And so what was interesting about that connection, and really a lot of connections I had with you after that, even in when the body talks and signal, was the thing that kind of infuriated me about you in a good way was you were never interested in the trauma story. You were never interested in the let me rephrase that. Not it's not that you weren't interested. It was just that there was you wanted us me to understand that a hyperfixation on the story is not doing any favors for your body. You said to me, Amy, when those traumatic events happened, and and and I don't know if you remember saying this or if you say it to everybody, but you said this to me. You said, when that traumatic event happened, your body said, I got you. I'm gonna hold on to this for until you're safe. But one day it'll be my turn. And that day in your office was my body's turn. And what I want listeners to understand out there is if you have a history of trauma like I do and you're operating with a dysregulated nervous system, the kindest, most compassionate thing you can do is give your body its turn. And because you had letters behind your name, and you still have letters behind your name, but because you were a psych, you know, a physician's assistant in psychiatry, I felt like I had permission to change. Like somebody who knows what they're doing looked at me and said, You can't keep doing this unless you want to die. You have got to take care of your vessel, you have got to take care of your body because everybody that knows me knows I'm all in my head all the time, and that was a game-changing moment for me. And it's another opportunity for me to publicly thank you for that because that set me on a journey, and we did some work together, and we're gonna talk about that in a little bit, but that set me on a journey that I've been able to point other people to. I've got friends that I have sent to you, and I don't know that there is a bigger compliment in the world, at least for me, when somebody sends somebody they love to me for help. And so, yeah, that day changed everything because you literally said if you don't figure out how to take care of your body, you will die. And and you have a tone, Lauren Starns, and those of you who are friends of you and do life with you know the smarter looky tone that you have that's also very loving and compassionate. I remember walking out thinking, what what did who does she think? I was pissed, but then somewhere along the way, it just kind of settled in. It was like, what does she honestly have to lose? Right? I wasn't walking into a physician's assistant to say, Hey Amy, let's give you some more medicine. And that I think was a transition period for you because you were already thinking of doing what you ultimately did, which is share with us where your career is now and why.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah. Um, and I yeah, so I want to address a couple of things you said just a little bit. So yeah, that is something I talk to a lot of people about, right? Is like the place where your nervous system is not just your mind, and particularly in the lens of like what you and I were working on with trauma. There's so much about having trauma in our system where we pull up into the mind and exist up there. And it's like we forget that we're existing below. And your body is a faithful servant, your body always has your back, your body always holds on to the things that you are not resourced enough to handle in the moment, like it's never gonna let you down, it's never gonna not hold it, but it's not sustainable, right? And you had hit this point of unsustainability, and without like sharing too much of your story, because I don't know how much you want to share, but it's like, you know, you basically had organ systems going offline, and it's like we can't have multiple organ systems going offline. You know, that that's just the body has held it too much at that point. Um, so I do think that's an important thing to talk about. And it is part of what like led me to move towards creating something different. And I I created that business in 2021 and I thought it was just gonna be a bridge, right? Like I thought, oh, I have all of this knowledge and all of this experience and all of this richness from you know going to a medical school and right being trained on a full medical model, you know, like I can suture people up, I've delivered babies, I right. Like I, you know, I think sometimes people don't understand what a physician assistant is. It's like just because I worked in psychiatry, like I'm I'm not trained in just hanging out, chit-chatting with people. And I, you know, I say that kind of bluntly, but it's like there's all of this work and knowledge and education and experience I have with the body. And then I got to spend almost 10 years working in psychiatry deep in with people in their minds and their emotions and you know, just the way those things connect and work together or don't work together. And so it gave me a great place to sit with all this mind-body connection. And I'm in the healthcare system, right? So I'm watching all the specialists, I'm watching how people struggle to advocate for themselves. I'm watching how many referrals we got in psychiatry just because Dr. A, B, C, and D were like, we don't know what's going on here. It must be psych, right? And so then we spend a lot of time in psych helping people kind of work through how to advocate for themselves or how to understand, okay, everything has gotten so confused here in your body. Like this is really a hormone issue. This is actually really a thyroid problem. And so I understand why your doctors got confused and uh why this is not just a psychiatric illness. Like, here's the actual thing. I'm just using that as one example. There's tons of other stuff, right? Tons of other different organ systems where it's like these are the things going offline. And I just realized I was like, we need more places where we're bridging this together. And I was like, I've got to start to create a business where I can help bridge these gaps because it's not that I'm anti the whole healthcare system or anti-pharmacology or anti-psychiatry, right? It's just seeing the places where we miss the mark or the places where stuff's too far apart and people can't quite connect the dots in their lived reality. And that was why I created programs like When the Body Talks, why I switched to doing a lot of one-to-one work, and why ultimately I left because I cannot stay with one foot in both worlds and like serve this purpose fully. Yeah. Right.

Translating Medicine Into Human Language

SPEAKER_03 14:23

And I and this is what I want listeners, and and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I this is a really, really important point. And this is it just literally like was an aha moment for me. This is why this worked for me, okay? Because I knew and understood, right? So I had gone to physical doctors, right? And GI doctors, uh, endocrinologists, rheumatologists that have four autoimmune diseases. They that was covered over here, but there is this huge disconnect with medical doctors and no listen, I I wanted to be a medical doctor, not a medical doctor, but that this is not to dismiss them, but we were not created with just 10 systems and a bunch of chemical reactions in our bodies, right? And so that day that I sat there, I because I'm not an unintelligent human being. I have a my undergrad degree is in pre-med, and now I have a doctorate degree. So I understood that you were coming to me medically trained with hey, you got to do something to take care of your body. Oh, and by the way, she's also classically psychiatry trained in psychiatry under the best psychiatrist I've ever been to, right? And so as people reach out to you for the one-on-one work and especially for the the program, and we're gonna do a whole podcast on just what when the body talks would offer, right? We're just this this conversation is for for our listeners to get to know each us through our questions of each other. But I wanted to nail that point home is that that gave it so much validity and so much authority to me, was because you also were coming in from a medical standpoint, understanding the systems that were going offline, but also understanding the uh the mental health and the psychiatry of it. And it and what you do, Lauren, is you make it simple, right? Like this is the body that you were given, and one of my favorite things you say is only you know your body. Right? Like I think some advice you gave me uh as I'm was working through some decisions was okay, I want you to there's two options. I want you to think about both of them, right? So think about decision A and sit with that. How does your what's your body feeling when you say you're going to do decision A? And for me, it's if it's an unsettlement, it's in my chest, it's in my stomach, it's just something is not jiving. And then so then I went to decision B and it was like Yeah. And if you can see me on video, I'm looking up because I'm like nothing feels uncomfortable, nothing feels dysregulated. So talk to us a little bit about how you and we don't have we could talk about this for hours, but the wisdom uh and this is what people get when they do one-on-ones with you, right? I love group therapy, my whole dissertation is built on group groups, like when the body talks or my trauma one-on-one. I love those, but that one-on-one stuff. So, can you help us understand the wisdom of our bodies? Like, because we are often so much in our head, but like that that exercise you walked me through, why did that work?

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Yeah, I think this is great. Um, and it lets us bring in like some some little nuance places as well, which you know I always enjoy also. So, in particular, like talking about you, and we're talking about like trauma, we're using you as the example here, um, and like trauma, and how when we have a lot of trauma still active in our system, we live in our mind. It's really important to understand the intelligence of the body and like how much wisdom and intelligence is down here in the body. Like, we are not created to exist in our mind. It's okay that we go up there to survive and get through hard things, but we lose so much wisdom, we lose so much body intelligence, we lose connection to the present moment, right? Because our mind can time travel, it can go all over, it can do all kinds of things, it can remember things, it can create fantasies, it can create ideas of the future, which is great. There's nothing wrong with that. But like our body isn't going anywhere, it's right here, and so even when it's holding old pain, it's holding that pain right here in the present. In the present, yeah, right. And so it's giving us a chance to access things in the present. And this kind of comes back to one of the things you said before, which is you know, like when it came to your trauma story, it's like it's not that I'm uninterested in your trauma story, right? Because I am. I know. Um, but it was not going to serve the kindest thing I could do was shift the attention from that story and put it on the pain that's actually here right now to be worked with. And the pain that your body's holding right now, it doesn't know the story, it doesn't care about the story in the past.

unknown 19:58

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

And so that's like one of the places where I think we help people get more connected to themselves is it's like when we have trauma, we do a lot of things where we lose track of time. And so, like when you relive your trauma, your mind is taking you back in time. When you just sit with the pain and the feelings in your body and the wisdom of your body needing to work with that in the present moment, it does not remember any of that story. And so I don't want to put attention on that story because that isn't what your body needs.

SPEAKER_03 20:32

Yeah, absolutely. Because correct me if I'm wrong, especially for those of us with post-traumatic stress disorder, anything to get to change the subject, to not have to deal with the story, right? That's why so many people with trauma, which of course is my specialty in this relationship, that's why so many people with trauma don't get help because fixating on that story is is it sends spiraling, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Right. And it's like we just don't need to do that.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yeah, like you, my friend, my precious friend, whoever we're talking to, you are hurting in this moment, and that's all that matters to me. Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:13

And that was what mattered to me with you.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

Right, right. It doesn't matter what hurt you because we can't do anything. It does matter what hurt you, but ultimately the pain is present in real time. And people with uh who have been pushed outside of their window of tolerance, which which is when an event becomes traumatic, has a hard time coming back to uh regulate because that is always a maladaptive memory, right? And so it makes so much sense to not focus on the maladaptive memory that didn't get laid down properly because it was traumatic, but what is it doing to you right now?

SPEAKER_01 21:51

Right.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

And for me, in that moment, now that we're talking about this, that made me feel the things that I want my podcast listeners to feel. I say it at the end of every episode. You are seen, you are known, you are heard, you are loved, and you are valued. And for somebody like me, with a body of trauma that I had, right, had become my identity. I'm Amy, I'm overcomer. You know, I've been through all this stuff. And yet I walk into a doctor's office, and a healthcare professional is like, dude, you're gonna die if you don't figure this out. And so I went, you and I did work together, and that was hard at first. But anything worth doing is because for the first time in my life I had to choose to value myself because I had to pay attention to my phys this this this body that God gave me to live on this planet with. And I couldn't divert it with the trauma narrative. What my work with you made me do was like understanding, Amy, we're going to rebuild a house, but you can't start with the roof, which is the the narrative, right? You gotta start with the foundation of a strong body, a strong nervous system, moving it out, right? Because there's this understanding that this stuff gets stuck in our bodies.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

And it's like the beauty of going into work with the nervous system, you know, like because that's what I like to do. You said earlier you were like you make things simple. And it's like I do I love making things simple. I made a choice. The minute I graduated from PA school, I made a choice. I was not going to speak to my patients in medical jargon. Like I just made a decision. I was like, I'm a no, I'm not gonna do that. Because what is that in service to? And look, there's places where we need to have that language. Absolutely. It's not that that language is bad. It was just a choice I made for how I was gonna interact with people. And it served me well. And it's part of why I've been able to be so powerful in so many people's lives, is because I made that choice early on and I started learning how to have language to translate these things for people sitting right in front of me so that they did not feel lost, so that they were constantly coming back to themselves more than feeling lost and pulled away in the system. And so that ties into something else you said, which is like you felt seen, heard, loved, valued, right? Because I just decided to come into those things in a different way, it gives people those experiences. And in particular, when we're working with people that have trauma, that's a really valuable experience. And it's also why I'm able to say that this is tying back to one of the other things you said, which is like, you know, sometimes I say things where it's like, I don't really like what she just said to me.

SPEAKER_07 24:59

Yeah.

Kindness Versus Niceness In Healing

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Right. But it's like this spot of looking at nice and kind. And I also made a decision that I was going to be kind and not nice, because I value kindness. Kindness is one of my highest values, actually. And to be kind to someone means to tell them the truth, to sit with them in the truth, to say the thing that's unpopular, to say the thing where they're gonna get mad at you. Because when you love someone, when you make the choice to love other humans, it means you're willing to go in and tell them the things they need to be well and to be their best, regardless of what comes back at you. Yeah. And so it's like in those moments, I just have to lead with my heart and hope that it lands well. But why it lands well is when you've been the overcomer and the strong one, and that and somebody can actually see how much pain you're in, you still feel loved, even when they're saying things to you where it's like, I don't want to hear this. I'm agitated with you, but I feel more seen by you than I have by anyone else in a long time.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

Yeah. I remember sitting and and spot on. You are spot on because you know me really well now. And I don't know this podcast is been is almost six years old, and so uh faithful listeners know me well, but you do know that the redemption of all the things that I've been through has been nothing short of remarkable, but I somehow had gotten connected to that being my value instead of I deserve as a human being, as an image bearer, uh made after you know, created in God's own image, I deserved peace in my nervous system. And so you were able to come in and help a very strong personality, and you know, I've just I've demonstrated the ability to be pretty resilient and all of that, and you were able to see, like you said, like you worded it perfectly, you were able to see that I was hurting because I never put value on my own pain, even when I started this podcast six years ago. And if I'm not careful now, and I will remember Lauren Starns' head and uh voice in my head sometimes when I'm when I'm talking about who I am and what I do and all the things, it's like if I'm not careful, I will pour into other people to my own detriment, which is why I'm not the nervous system specialist in this beautiful um relationship that we have. You are talk to us because people are gonna reach out to you and and want to do some one-on-one stuff, and I and we're gonna do some things together online and all of that. But what is important though for you is your nervous system, you're co-regulating with us when you work with us on these one-on-ones, right? You're co-regulating when you do groups. Tell us this is a calling for you, Lauren, because there's no way that. I mean, I know you work hard to regulate your own nervous system, but talk to us about that gift that you have. And I want you to talk well about yourself as you should, because I want people that are thinking about working with you to understand that you're an incredible co-regulator of nervous systems because you are such an expert of your own. Why is that so so vitally important? Because you you go through Instagram and it's it's noisy out there, Lauren. People got stuff for everything, they got ideas for everything, and this is a situation which I am comfortable promoting and encouraging people to use what God has called you to do because of this unbelievable gift that you have to co-regulate and to take care of yourself. So talk to us a little bit about that.

Co-Regulation And The Need For Connection

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Yeah, and you know it it's like kind of a multifaceted thing, right? It's it's been unfolding like throughout my whole life. You know, this this is my life's work. This is what I've been moving towards, you know, even since I was a child. This is what I'm created to do. Um, and I can see all the different phases that like have allowed me to be here, including, you know, much like yourself, right? Like, I have a lot of childhood trauma. I have a lot of hard things that I've had to go through and places where I've had to walk through this myself. And you and I were having a conversation about this before, which is like it happens for us, making the choice to be like those things happened for me, not just so that I can overcome them, but so that I can understand like the map of what it means to be a human inside of this journey or inside of these experiences. And because I've walked my way through so many of them, I understand how to walk other people through it. And it allows my system to be able to stay open, which is what we need. We need someone else's nervous system, like you said, to co-regulate us. This is how we're created. We are not created to do things alone. We are not on this planet to do things alone. If you are a human being in a human body, you are meant to be connected to other human beings. It is how we learn, it is how we're born, and like we cannot escape how we're created. We cannot escape, like even when we talk about attachment theory, that's a whole nother topic for another day. But like it comes back to we all have that wiring. It doesn't matter who you are, it doesn't matter the most powerful people, um, the most spiritual, peaceful people, you know, whether you're a CEO or a millionaire or a monk or a guru, it doesn't matter. You still have an attachment system that requires connection to other people. And so just sitting with these bigger truths and like being able to create space to be like, oh, I really can go in here and be with people in the expanse of this. And what a gift that I went on my journeys early in life. And then I got to go to PA school, and then I got to work with people in psych. And it's just this spot where I like see things and track things in a particular way, and my system organizes things in a particular way where I get to learn and see the pattern and then show people in a gentle way, right? Because we're talking about it simply, and I don't know if this like translates well because but so you can help me if you think I'm like not answering the question well for your listener. Um, but like there are just so many things about me that allow me to sit with people in these places, and I just really had to embrace that it was like a gift and I needed to go do it more.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

When did you do that? What like I'm so curious, is just as your friend, when did you get this? Like, this is this is what I'm called to do, this is what I'm like your nervous system is literally created, and you know a lot about it and all the things, right? But and you work hard to keep your own nervous system regularly but it is definitely a gift. People tell me all the time, because we all have those things that are unique to only us, and I have certain things, and you have certain things. This is a gift for you. But what when did you figure that out in life? Because you're in your mid-30s. When did you figure that out in life?

SPEAKER_02 32:42

Yeah, so I I got more clear on it actually, like in my early 30s. There was just a moment, like I was on a journey in life, kind of transforming some things about me and like looking at making some career changes. And honestly, it was just like spending more time with God, right? It was getting more into prayer and like really sitting with listening to what God had to show me. And then I just got really clear. It was like in the middle of 2020, I just got really clear. I was like, this is not my purpose. It doesn't matter what I change about my career, I will never be able to touch my purpose. And following my purpose, like following the thing God created me to do, where I do have gifts and I can see things in ways that I know are different from most people, right? Like I am aware that the way I see it and do it is different than most people that work in psychiatry. Even if you just look at my Myers-Briggs personality, I am not like the other, you know, the doctor and the other nurse practitioners and PA, right? They're like over here in this zone, and I'm over here in this zone.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

And it's like, how did I get in there?

SPEAKER_02 33:52

Why am I doing this? Um, and then just sitting with the things where it's like I can just feel the truth of like God wanting me to listen and go out and do this differently and have more of a voice for it and create things that are not created because it was scary. That's why I didn't leave at first, right? Is it like, well, what is my business gonna be? Like you said, you and I are talking about nervous system translator, nervous system. It's like, well, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_04 34:17

Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

I'm just figuring it out and creating it as I go because it's like I believe and I have faith, and and the proof is in the pudding, right? The more people I work with and the more ripples that come off of the people that do these programs or sit with me, the more I'm like, this works. I have to go all in on using these gifts with people and doing this a different way because the proof is not just in my faith and my conversations with God, but it's in the people that get touched through me agreeing and listening and committing and being devoted to following those gifts and other things.

SPEAKER_03 34:55

A gift comes to my mind for sure. I have my own version of that gift that that I'm actively stepping into. And it it is one of those moments where I there's I love this song. It's um from an old show that was on, I say old probably 10 years ago, from a show called Nashville. And the song is called It Ain't Yours to Give Away. And it the whole premise of the song is like that whatever gift you have is like you, it's not yours to give away. It's not yours to not step into. You don't get to make that decision. And I know, I know for me, as I am actively in this moment in March of 2026, stepping into the a new season and a new purpose after having finished my doctorate degree with a with an intense focus on trauma and and and community care, like helping people understand what trauma is, and you know, and and I hate that we've trauma and triggers and buzzwords in our society now. But my point though, I I'm gonna bring land the plane, my point is that people need to know moving forward, as you and I are gonna do several podcast episodes, and uh we've got some ideas of doing some in-person events in uh Florida and doing some webinars that can be across the country, because what I see from my side over here, with my area of specialty, my subject matter expertise, as they say when you get done graduating from uh getting your doctorate degree, is what trauma does, what trauma is, what trauma does to the brain, when it matters, pre-verbal trauma, post you know, post-verbal trauma, all of those kinds of things. But I know, and I knew in the middle of my program that I could educate people about trauma no matter all day long. I I literally just spent three years swimming in it. And what is psychological trauma and what does it do to our brains? And why can two people in the same house experience the same traumatic event? And I'm air quoting for those of you on audio, and only one of you have PTSD. I I bring great value, and that is my gift, but it is impotent without somebody helping people understand how to move it through the body, and that's where this connection comes from.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

So we were talking about like co-regulation and like my system. And part of what was very helpful, like when I went on my psychiatry rotation, even in school, the psychiatrist I was with, she was like, You have a gift and you need to do this. And I was like, Nope, I'm gonna work in pediatrics things. I'm gonna, you know, like I already have a plan in life. And she's like, No, no, no, you're made for this. And as luck would have it, my first job fell apart, right? Like, God took it away. The job that I took had to go. And we're not gonna go into all the details of it, but it was spectacular faction the way it disappeared from my life. And you better believe I got on the phone and I called that psychiatry, uh, that psychiatrist, and she was like, I will have you a job in 48 hours, just get to my office. Like that woman believed in me, and she like she knew way before I knew she could see me and have faith in what I was here to do. And so I never meant to end up in psychiatry on my own mind choice, but I was always going to end up there. And part of it is because there's a way where being around me, I and I cannot tell you what it is inside of me fully, right? I continue to just be with it and learn it. But being around me does something for other people's nervous systems and co-regulates them in a way that other people do not get. And so who you get to feel yourself to be, just in my presence, just by sitting in a room with me, even in a 15-minute med check, people get to tap into a part of themselves that they don't get from just being out there in the world. And part of it is because I don't do a lot of mind, I do a little bit more feeling. Like you can feel me when I walk in a room, right? Yeah. Yeah. My emotional intelligence and the way I hold myself and carry myself gives people a lot of permission to feel different things in themselves. Sometimes that they want to feel and sometimes that they don't. But right, it's like a truth detector. It's it's just going to happen by spending time with me, regardless of what I say. And so, like that skill just developed more and more by the time I'd helped, like, I've helped 7,000 plus patients, right? And so it's like the more humans and bodies and nervous systems I got to sit with, the more I got to practice just being open and not showing up with any certain thing, other than to let that person experience themselves in more truth, like in more truth of where they were and pinpoint what it is they needed.

When To Revisit The Trauma Story

SPEAKER_03 39:50

That is so true. Like, I'm thinking about my own experience. So, what I'm coming at you now with my own experience is twofold. One is that I've actually experienced that about you, about uh, you know, it because co-regulation of the nervous system is paramount. You you beautifully answered to you told us, like, we are not meant to do this alone. Period, paragraph. So, listener, no matter where you are in this world right now, if you are trying to navigate this alone, and this is hard to say, you will fail. You will fail. And so the beauty of technology gives us access to Lauren and all of her information would be in the show notes. But but that is so true about you, is that when you're in the same room, it's like a liquid Xanax or you know, human Xanax. It's like even when we got on this Zoom this morning, you know me well enough to know that you know, I would have jumped right into this conversation and it wouldn't have been in near as rich as it needed to be, except for you just kind of checked in with my nervous system. I knew what you were doing, and I got my water here, so you'd be proud of me. But that is very true. So, from my perspective, that is true. I also experience the same thing. It is oddly the the thing that I get the most. Like, so I have the kind of personality that when people are around me and I leave, they miss me. Like, you know, so you just have some people are just like that, as like you know, that there's just something there. Um, when I had communication with patients and I would walk into a room, like I would walk into a room, Lauren, with patients throwing stuff and all kinds of stuff, and I walk into a room and like the energy in the room just physically came down. Not because I'm walking in there with a regulated nervous system because I'm still very much practicing what I learned from you, but because I do have a gift of uh discernment and empathy, and just kind of like when I walk in that room, nothing else in that room matters. And then oddly, and it's so interesting that I have a podcast, but I've always been told that my voice is soothing and healing, and so all of that to say that you know, listeners, we've got so much coming at you because I know that my people that are coming into my purview, whether you're coming into my trauma one-on-one, which is a webinar we're gonna do later in the spring, or you're you you want to do some one-on-one work with me, I'm going to involve Lauren because I'm not the bodywork person. Do you see a a spot with people that come to you like me? Like I was very academic, right? And so I needed somebody who could teach me about what was going on. The whole reason, I don't know if I've ever told you this, the whole reason why I went to get a doctorate degree in trauma was because nobody was breaking it down in terms that made sense to me. So pa people work with you, and in my case, I worked with you for a whole year. I think we did once a week for a year. I already knew about because as my nervous system got calmer, I already knew what trauma had done because I was learning about it. Is there value after the nervous system is kind of like somebody is getting it as a habit to regulate their nervous system? When then could they use somebody like me to begin to visit the narrative?

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Love this. I'm so glad we're talking about this.

SPEAKER_02 43:33

So, like one of the things that I'm always trying to teach people is like the mind is not the enemy, the mind is not bad, right? Our process and our understanding is not bad. So just because I'm shifting the focus like down into the body, and I'm like trying to take people on these journeys of embodiment and emotions and being with these things, it is never meant to be at the expense of the mind. And so a lot of what you do really helps land the mind in like language and concept. And, you know, like you said, you studied specifically into all of these things to be able to hold people in a way that like the average person just isn't going to have the experience or expertise to do.

unknown 44:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 44:18

And so there's a few different times that I think it's very helpful. And it's not one size fits all. Like this was something I posted about the other day, even just on my post. Where I'm like, it's it's just not a cookie cutter approach. You know, and that's what I think people want is they want us to say, this is the answer. This is how you fix it. And it's like, that's just not how it works. Um, but a few patterns where I see that it's good to work with like someone like you is like, first off, there's a lot of people that don't know they have trauma until we go in and sit with their body.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

Oh, and so like right.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

So those people know they have certain behaviors and they're like, man, I feel so stuck in life. Like, I just can't work through this. And I'm like, okay, well, let's go figure out what's going on. And then we spend time with their body and their nervous system, and we rewire some things, and it becomes apparent that there is trauma to work with. And that's a that's a decent subset of people. There are a lot of people walking around that just don't even realize. And so that person has been walking around for decades, probably living life without this lens. And it's very helpful to uh give their brain a way to land it. That's a great person to work with you. Right? Because now we've opened Pandora's box and it's like, okay, how do we continue to land the mind? Because the mind is gonna have a lot of freakouts around like, now I can feel all of these things. What is happening? What is going on? Um, it's also really important, even when we do this kind of work, we're still gonna have life happen, right? Life is still gonna keep lifing. Hard things are still gonna keep showing up. And so it's great to have someone to go to specifically when we know that we have a current life event show back up. It's like, how do I tend to myself? Because I don't want to stuff this, I don't want to suppress this, I don't want my body to hold it. So it's like if you go through a traumatic event, then go see someone to just work with that trauma and we don't even need to have it get stuck. Right. Right. Like I'm I think those are just two very clear examples of like people where it's great for you to work with them. Many others, though, like I said, this is not linear, this is not one size fits all. It's very unique. But those are places where I definitely see like it's important to have a trauma specialist.

SPEAKER_03 46:43

Yeah, and I I'm I'm branding myself as the trauma doc. We'll see how that lands, but I but I I know, and and here's one of the simple things, and I and and most of these nuggets are going to be and work with me, but it is really important to understand one thing where my knowledge and what Lauren does comes beautifully together. And and I I try to teach this to patients all the time, but it is basically the if you think of your brain, and you know, I'll hold up my fist to the camera, that's Dr. Dan Siegel's hand model I of the brain, I love it. So if you hold your fist up in front of you, bone in your arm is your spinal cord, that your fingers in the front are what we call your prefrontal cortex. And your prefrontal cortex is the thing that helps you be appropriate, make good decisions, actually be able to think coherently, all of that. When an event happens that pushes you outside of what we call your window of tolerance, that prefrontal cortex goes offline, and this is what we call flipping your lid. And this is where Lauren gets patients. PFC not online, no access to logic, right? Now, when the PFC goes offline, we're being ruled by what's in my thumb, demonstrated in my thumb here, as your amygdala and your hippocampus. One is your fear center, one is the way you lay down memories. And so when somebody comes to me, it's going to always be, hey, you you need to do this body work too, because I can't help you understand. And I'm doing this back and forth theme because you have two sides of your brain. One is your right emotional brain, left linear, and when your PFC is offline, they are not speaking to each other. Two plus two is six. It'll never be four. And what you do, Lauren, is I need you to get their PFC, help them get their PFC online so that when they come to me and I can teach them, hey, this is what trauma does, this is what your body is doing, and this is why your work with Lauren is so important because your amygdala is constantly scanning the environment for danger. And we need you to know what that feels like for you. One of my favorite things you say is you are the expert of you.

unknown 49:00

Right?

SPEAKER_00 49:01

Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

And so when they begin to feel that dysregulation and session with me, I gotta flip them back to hey, we need to get your nervous system where you're resourced. I love that. And we're gonna talk in in another episode about which simple resources are, but I love you always say that. Are you resourced? Right? I called you one day as my friend, and uh you pretty much had to drag me onto a Zoom meeting because I was had been kind of you know activated for lack of a better way to explain that. Um, but uh was not resourced, had not been eating, drinking, sleeping, moving my body. And so, to your point, it's not like, hey guys, you're listening to a podcast, you're gonna reach out and work with Lauren and Amy, and um suddenly the rest of your life is gonna be fine.

SPEAKER_00 49:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 49:54

We understand that they are lifelong things, and and we want to get people in a position where both their nervous system is calm and their mind is not terrorized. And the way we get terrorization of the mind going away is meaning making. I firm firmly believe that, making some understanding of what happened and why or not, and finding peace with it. But the the moment that I understood that traumatic events, trauma being anything that took your safety or your choice, altered your brain was when I knew that I couldn't just go to a psychiatrist or I couldn't just go to a medical doctor. I needed somebody, something in between that bridges, yes, the body is a real thing, cortisol stress hormones are a real thing, but so is the the mind and and the way we are wired to protect ourselves, and and and it so I just see us with these opportunities to help people holistically, the entire body, right? From the story to the feeling and everything in between, and giving you the opportunity to live a an abundant, and here here's I wonder if you would agree with me on this lauren an abundant and free life. Because when I walked out of that office that day, I didn't want to die. I did not want to die.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Right.

Freedom, Choice, And Wanting Wellness

SPEAKER_03 51:30

There was so much freedom. It's kind of like when you you don't feel good, you don't feel good, something's wrong, right? And you go to the doctor and you kind of hope they find something to explain why you're feeling what you're feeling. Like you don't want cancer or something like that, but you're hoping that the doctor says, Hey, yeah, your blood work is off. When I walked out of that office that day, I was given a concrete reason that I could put my hands on for why I was feeling like I was, and then suddenly all the shame went away. I should be able to handle this. I sh shouldn't still bother me. This shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't, shouldn't. It gave me permission to operate in this body that God gave me. Not just the brain, which is my favorite thing to focus on, but what my body was telling me, the wisdom of the Amy Watson experience inside of me, what my body was telling me, right? So I don't really have a question there. It's just I have such a a heart in this moment when you and I are talking uh on this computer screen for people out there who are living like I was that you don't have to. Because do you I'll come back to the question because I just remembered it. Do you believe that this worthy work brings a a level of freedom for human beings?

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Absolutely. Yeah, just like we were talking about earlier, and I was like, kindness is one of my highest values, so is freedom. Right? Like that is just personally one of my highest values in life. And so seeing people get more free is absolutely what I'm in service to for myself as well, right? I value getting to be free in my life, but I value it for everyone. And I 100% agree with you so much. It's so funny to me that we have not talked about this before and that we're just spontaneously coming to this conversation here, but absolutely it gives you freedom, right? Because your power in life is in your choice, and so that's a hard thing to talk through, particularly with like the trauma group. And keep in mind, I work with a lot of people in a lot of different areas. Trauma is not necessarily my specialty, it's an area I have a lot of expertise in. Yes, but like power comes from our choices. And so the more we sit with places where we have choices, the more we find freedom. And like empowerment is that place where we get to move the power that is inside of us into the world. That is how we experience freedom. Whether it's like moving our purpose or just moving our desire, like things we want, um, all of that comes from those moments. And when we feel locked out of choice, and when we're in trauma, and when our buffet of choices feels really small, we are not experiencing freedom.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

And there is, listen, I could talk for hours on how healing is a choice.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Right, we could, we could really go for it.

SPEAKER_03 54:48

It does not feel it does not feel like a compassionate thing to say, right? It is the truth. And I often tell people when I work with them, there's a story in the Bible where um there was a the pools at Bethesda were healing waters. And as the story would go, is people would hang around the pool if they needed healing from something, and when the angel would come stir the waters, people would get into the pool and they would be healed. Well, Jesus comes along and there's this man laying by the pool, and he had been there, the Bible says, for 38 years. And he said, Jesus said, Why aren't you in the water? Why aren't you going to the water? And the paralytic man is, Oh, everybody keeps getting in before me, nobody will help me, I'm just tired, I'm I just can't, you know, all these excuses he was given by Jesus. And Jesus said to the man, and this is what I say to our listeners, do you want to get well? Jesus said to the man, get up, go in the water, and you are healed. But he asked that really important question Do you want to get well? And I will tell you, listener, that I had to make a decision to get well when I was myself hospitalized in 2008 after a suicide attempt. I did not want to get well, it was so much easier to abuse substances and just live a subpar life because this stuff that we're talking about, I don't want anybody to think that we are saying that it's easy.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

It's not.

SPEAKER_03 56:32

It would be the hardest thing you'll ever do. But I challenge listeners, I challenge you to reach out to one of us and start your healing journey. Because we can't possibly cover all the wisdom that you and I have here on a podcast.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

Yeah, because like this conversation, it it it barely scratches the surface. There's just there's no way to put in a podcast like what is the deepest work. And like you said, it is not easy, but it is so worth it.

What Comes Next And How To Connect

SPEAKER_03 57:02

It is a worthy one. Listen, I am sitting here five years later, a different human being. And while my traumatic experiences want to make me think that I am not worthy of the work to heal, the choice that I made after I walked out of that office that day, and all of this stuff that came behind it, is nothing short of miraculous. I have not made a decision public that I will make in a couple weeks, and as my counselor says, Amy, you shouldn't be able to do that. Because I'm going to pick me. And that's where we can get. And so as we close out this particular episode, Lauren and I don't know exactly what all we're going to bring to you. There are going to be uh there will be some content that is exclusive to Patreon, which, if you don't know what Patreon is, it's just an opportunity to help creators like Lauren and me, and you get exclusive content. So we will likely, because Lauren and I have conversations like this all the time, and we literally could talk for hours and hours and hours, and we will bring some more concentrated content. But like Lauren said, this is not even scratching the surface. What we wanted to do today was introduce you to this um very important concept of nervous system regulation and uh the integration between the body and the mind, and um how both of us are stepping into callings. Um, like Lauren said, that psychiatrist said to her, you were built for this, you were made for this. And she, Lauren, has found a way to both use her education as a physician's assistant and her inherent wisdom as being called into helping people regulate their nervous systems. And I, having just finished this degree uh with the education and the lived experiences, here we are with hope on offer for you guys because um we, you know, nobody's over here, you know, living on the Gulf of Mexico, millionaires doing this work. This is the work of our hearts, and um the more people that we can have out there walking who are walking with regulated nervous systems, and here's the thing we haven't even talked about this. But when somebody is operating, my friend Joy, and and she'll she'll give me permission to say this. My friend Joy is a great example of this. My friend Joy that that worked with you, Lauren, um, is now he is now interacting in the world in a way that feels so purposeful to her and and and and works within the confines of what she was built to do. And so, guys, we're not just trying to get you to walk around feeling like you just took a Xanax, or I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to to say that just because I can help you understand trauma, we want you to be peaceful. We want you to be the best version of you because what would have happened that day in Lauren's office if she just would have went if she just would have had her head down on her computer, okay, how's the medicine going? You know, those dumb questions that we ask, uh, and there's you know, you know, the the the progression screening and the this screening. What if she would have just looked down on her computer and typed a bunch of stuff and gave me a prescription and I walked out of the door? Would I be stepped into this purpose? And so, guys, this is way more about while the the the the grab here, the thing we want is for you to be healthy. I want you, and I know Lauren wants you to move around in this world as closely aligned to your purpose as possible. And if you've lived any life, you're gonna need some help regulating your nervous system and understanding the things that are gonna might constantly be traumatic triggers for you throughout your life. So we're here for that. We put both of our contacts information in the show notes. You can follow Lauren on Instagram. I will put her handle there. She is also on TikTok and Facebook, and I am on all of them. Uh, but we'll put all of that in the show notes. We will be bringing new episodes until we run out of things to start talking about that will help you understand how uh you can live an abundant and free life. And so this is just the introductory. Lauren and Amy begin talking, and as uh my favorite podcaster, Annie F. Downs, has a podcast series with her buddy Eddie. Uh it she called it uh Annie and Eddie Keep Talking. And so Lauren and Amy are going to keep talking too. We'll be back here in two weeks with another episode. You can catch the videos on YouTube, which is different than what we have been doing, and we've got some big ideas. And so until then, Lauren, thank you so much for being here, and we will be chatting again soon. But thanks, thanks for being on.

unknown 1:02:02

Help me!

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

Thank you, Amy. This is great conversation. Love what's to come, can't wait.

Closing Blessing And Next Release

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

Yeah, all the things. And so, as you always know, I don't close a podcast without telling you this. You are seen, you are known, you are heard, you are loved, and you're so so valued. And we are so excited to help you um move towards a life that is healthy, abundant, and free. See you guys in two weeks.