Conversations with Big Rich

Bob Ham, CORVA pioneer and state legislative lobbyist on Episode 163

May 18, 2023 Guest Bob Ham Season 4 Episode 163
Conversations with Big Rich
Bob Ham, CORVA pioneer and state legislative lobbyist on Episode 163
Show Notes Transcript

We don’t tend to think of influencers in the octogenarian stage, but Bob Ham certainly qualifies. Bob spent his career influencing people where it mattered, in land use advocacy in the California State Legislature. From forming CORVA to being on the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame Board of Directors, Bob knows how to get things done and impact others. A 2006 inductee into ORMHOF, Bob Ham is why we say; legends live at  Be sure to tune in on your favorite podcast app.

3:50 – I started picking up Spanish and really getting engaged with the culture down there

8:43 – I probably went to virtually every Baja 1000 since the ’69 event                                

12:06 – we formed CORVA in 1971 and got involved writing bills 

23:27 – there ought to be a law that allows green stickered vehicles to connect a trail – we got it, Assembly Bill 1201

32:13– most lobbyists come in just the way I did, as former legislative staffers

42:45 – it’s not the offroad Racing hall of fame, it’s the offroad hall of fame

Special thanks to for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

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[00:00:00.880] - Big Rich Klein

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the offroad industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors. Men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call offroad. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active in offroad. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call offroad.


[00:00:46.120] - Big Rich Klein

This episode of Conversations with Big Rich is brought to you by the Offroad Motorsports Hall of Fame. The mission of the Hall of Fame is to educate and inspire present and future generations of the offroad community by celebrating the achievements of those who came before. We invite you to help fulfill the mission of the Offroad Motorsports Hall of Fame. Join, partner, or donate today. Legends live at Ormhof.Org.


[00:01:15.670] - Big Rich Klein

On today's conversations with Big Rich, I talk with Bob Ham. Bob is a 2006 inductee into the offroad motorsports hall of fame.


[00:01:24.570] - Big Rich Klein

As a pioneer advocate category, Bob started off offroading in the mid 60s with a trip to Baja. From Baja to sand, to Broncos to sandrails, a founder of Corva, Bob has fought the good fight to save offroading. Bob, thank you very much for coming on board and discussing your life with us.


[00:01:45.920] - Bob Ham

No problem.


[00:01:47.240] - Big Rich Klein

All right. My first question for you is going to be my standard one is, where were you born and raised?


[00:01:52.780] - Bob Ham

Well, I was born during World War II in a place called Gallup Ellis, Ohio, but moved all around for the first 10 years of my life. My father was in charge of munitions plants. He was a Harvard trained chemist. And so instead of being drafted, he was drafted to take over the conversion of a bunch of factories that they had then. So we moved all over the Midwest while he managed what they referred to as Japanese sleeping powder in those days, which is basically pumps. Right. I grew up mostly in Northern New Jersey and Teaneck, New Jersey, and later Hillsdale. Went to high school and also moved back and forth. So I actually graduated from San Marino High School near Pasadena. That's my education and where I got started. And once I was in California, that's when I started going up to places like Jawbone Canyon with my old Buick, and we'd go chasing around the dirt roads. And I liked that. And that's what eventually got me down to Baja in better vehicles.


[00:03:24.180] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And while you were in college, you were in San Diego State, is that correct?


[00:03:29.900] - Bob Ham

Yes, I went to San Diego State. And of course, that was just a short hop in those days down to Tijuana and then Ensenada.


[00:03:42.450] - Big Rich Klein

And is that where you really fell in love with the wilds, you might say, offroading?


[00:03:50.630] - Bob Ham

Yeah, that got me hooked. There were very, very few paved roads in Baja. Once you left Tijuana, it was just dirt roads all over the place. They took you to interesting spots. I started picking up Spanish and really getting engaged with the culture down there and the food.


[00:04:15.410] - Big Rich Klein

Now, the people and the food down there are just fantastic. And it's still, even to this day, still like the Wild West. It's not as civilized, or I should say, developed as the United States.


[00:04:33.000] - Bob Ham

It isn't as the United States, but it certainly is a heck of a lot more developed than when I used to go down there. The major roads between cities were a bit of a challenge to get from one place to another. Of course, now it's all paved for the most part. A little sad for me, but that's what happens.


[00:05:00.650] - Big Rich Klein

Progress, they call it.


[00:05:02.560] - Bob Ham



[00:05:04.450] - Big Rich Klein

Let's talk about those early days when you went down to Baja. Were you fishing? Were you in the surfing scene, or were you guys just hanging out?


[00:05:15.770] - Bob Ham

Just hanging out. We'd find different things to do, different places to go. Most every good cantina from Rosarito to probably 100 miles past Ensenada.


[00:05:33.230] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. I would imagine they were a little different then because they weren't touristy.


[00:05:40.600] - Bob Ham

That's correct. You had to speak a little bit of Spanish, at least, just to get along because unlike today, where there's English spoken in almost every establishment that caters to Americans, when we were going to some of these places, they really hadn't seen or had many customers from the United States. We were a curiosity, just as much as they might have been to us.


[00:06:12.640] - Big Rich Klein

I can understand that. We've traveled into Costa Rica and Japan and Mexico and found that we like getting off the beaten path in those areas and getting away from where all of the, say, American tourists and sightseers go. And we still come across that where there is a communication barrier. But as long as you smile and try to communicate, they are wide open to having Americans in their establishments, that's for sure.


[00:06:54.280] - Bob Ham

That's correct.


[00:06:56.840] - Big Rich Klein

So when you were down there, you're just hanging out and stuff, what vehicles were you driving at that time?


[00:07:06.360] - Bob Ham

I had a 1969 Bronco that I brought brand new and did a lot of travel in it around just about every place in Baha. And then as time went on, I picked up different vehicles. I had Baha Bugs that I took down there, and sandrails and so on. Just grew up with a different offroad vehicle every few years just because I either wanted to go different places or wanted more horsepower or more capability.


[00:07:53.070] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And when you went down to Baha, did you get into the racing aspect of traveling in Baha?


[00:08:04.340] - Bob Ham

I didn't race, well, except for a couple of times. I pre ran with a friend of mine that was in the races, and I'm also a member of Checkers, which is the best offroad vehicle pit club, offroad racing pit club that there is in Baha or the United.


[00:08:29.980] - Big Rich Klein

States. okay. And how many times did you... Was there a long stretch of period where you went down there for the races, or was it just hit and miss?


[00:08:43.840] - Bob Ham

No, I probably went to virtually every Baha 1,000 since the '69 event. This year, I've missed a few races. First time, I've not been down there, I think, for Baha 1,000 since the '60s.


[00:09:07.860] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, that's quite the track record. That's awesome. Did you have a chance to meet a lot of the racers, or did you stick with your pit crew?


[00:09:18.530] - Bob Ham

I stuck with my pit crew. I've met a whole bunch of them off and on over the years and a lot more as a result of being inducted into the offroad hall of fame in 2006. Been on the board of directors with some of what were once my idles and so on. I got to know them pretty well. Working with them on various boards and commissions with their committees with the OMOF.


[00:09:52.020] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. And as you were down in Mexico and then going offroading here in the States, you did a lot of stuff in the beach areas, PISMO and some of the areas that are now closed. Is that correct?


[00:10:14.430] - Bob Ham

Yeah, that's what got me started with Corva. We started hearing a lot of noise about the PISMO Beach was in trouble and getting close to being closed. And we'd already lost places like up around Fort Orte, Marina Beach. And there was the sand spits at Morro Bay, little places that we used to be able to go. And one by one, they were getting closed down. So that's when I started working with a couple of other folks that I knew from going to places like Des M o. First, I was a member of a dune buggy club. There was dune buggies and Jeeps called the Los Aventureros. We tried to join the 4 Wheel Drive Association because I knew that they were beginning to do some work in land use advocacy. They turned us down because in those days, a club had to be 100 % 4x4. Since we were a bastard organization, I guess you'd say, with dune buggies as well as four bys, they said we weren't eligible. That's when we got really serious about forming Corva. And so we found other dune buggy clubs and other groups that were interested and not otherwise aligned with the 4WD association, or were perhaps members of AMA district 37 or 36.


[00:12:06.940] - Bob Ham

In those days, all the AMA groups were mostly doing was the racing and not so much land use advocacy. So we formed a little confederation, and gradually we were certain enough that this is the direction we had to go. So we did form Corva and incorporated it in 1971. Then we got involved with getting bills written. The very first one was the off highway vehicle act of 1971 that basically created an off highway vehicle program in California and moved on from there. Eventually found out I was pretty good at the legislative stuff. And so when my employment moved me to Sacramento, I wound up eventually getting a job with the legislature. And really took over from there. Once I had been legislative staff for about six, seven years, I left and went out on my own and took over the lobbying efforts for the Motorcycle Industry Council when their lobbyist retired and subsequently formed the Off Road Vehicle Legislative Coalition, which was all of the volunteer groups like CORVA and AMA districts, a few others that were out there. And that became the legislative effort for the offroad clubs as far as keeping things moving legislatively to protect and provide opportunity for more offro ad vehicle use in California.


[00:14:15.790] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. I'm glad there was people like you back then that would take the bull by the horns and start looking at the future and what was happening. We've lost a lot even with all the work that has been done. I can't imagine that we'd have probably any open spaces to offroad in had you guys back then not gotten organized and started on the land use efforts.


[00:14:49.490] - Bob Ham

We were lucky in that we had a built in advocate in the legislature, a guy named Gene Chappie, who is also a hall of Famer, but he was in a Jeep club in Northern California and El Dorado County, got himself elected to the state assembly. And it was him that helped bring us a bunch of us together. He called a meeting in Sacramento in his legislative office. And I remember he just started it's all over, guys. We've been running, doing our own thing and avoiding anybody's rules and regulations. But there was almost a bill passed the year before that would have severely regulated offroad vehicles, would have registered us and so on. And the only reason it died, the bill died, was because the author of the bill had a heart attack and died and nobody picked up the bill and ran with it after he was gone. So what Chappie was telling us is that issue isn't going away. It's coming back. We've got to take the bull by the horn. And that's when we formed the bill. He said, We're going to get registered. So let's get registered, but let's make it a program that works the way the boating program works, where there's a lot of revenue collected.


[00:16:27.790] - Bob Ham

And that is used to make sure that there are facilities in the boating case, launching ramps and harbors and things like that. And so as he envisioned, we would buy up land or buy up trail easements and so on to ensure that we would have offered vehicle places to go in perpetuity. So that's how we got started. And assemblyman Chappie actually enlisted the support of an environmentalist leaning assemblyman named Ed Zyberg. And so that's why it's called the Chappie Zyberg Act of 1971, that set up the Green Sticker Program that got things started.


[00:17:21.070] - Big Rich Klein

I didn't know that. That is awesome that he was able to get a liberal leaning or environmental leaning representative to help as well.


[00:17:32.750] - Bob Ham

When I first started around the legislature, there was common practice was to get major bills done. You get both sides that were in the fight and said, Okay, you hate us and we hate you, but we know something's got to be done, so let's figure out what we can agree upon. And in this case, it was something that certainly had legs. It's still there today as the model offroad vehicle program in the States.


[00:18:15.940] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, true. That's how we have the offroad or the state vehicle recreation areas like Prairie City and some of the others.


[00:18:27.680] - Bob Ham

That's important. Was that the one that started it all?


[00:18:31.580] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. It's too bad that... Here I'm jumping on the politic box, but it's too bad that that's a lost art form of working together.


[00:18:43.230] - Bob Ham

It seems to be, and it's a shame. I enjoyed working in that environment when I worked in the legislature. I think one of the things that I'd mentioned in one of those articles that Judy Smith did was there was a time when we were having difficulty getting some attention from some of the environmentalist leading legislators. So I got cheap when the score was going to have a the first time they had the Safari class, which was a timed event and not a straight out race. I got a Jeep to loan me a new Cherokee. And then I went to the legislature and found an assemblyman who had just been elected. He had actually defeated an offered vehicle oriented legislator. So I went to him and said, hey, do you want to learn about this? How would you like to be my co driver? And we would go down and race in the Safari class. And he liked the idea. We did it. We got to be good friends. And from that moment on, anytime there were bills that came up where I needed some help, I could ask him and could just about 100 % count on his support and his vote.


[00:20:36.120] - Bob Ham

And it used to drive some of the Enviro's nuts. They didn't understand why they were losing this assemblyman's vote every time a bill came up with off road. And they had no idea of how I was pulling that off. It was fun.


[00:20:56.380] - Big Rich Klein

That's great. I know just from personal experience, taking people out wheeling for the first time or offroading for the first time, how it is addicting. Then they start to understand that what we're doing is just We're not blazing new trails or new lines, paths in just open areas. We are following trails and roads and established areas that have always been used since the beginning of motorized vehicle traffic.


[00:21:39.450] - Bob Ham



[00:21:40.070] - Big Rich Klein

Very important to us. Once we get people out there that have never done it, that never gotten off the pavement, they start to understand why there's others that do enjoy it.


[00:21:56.230] - Bob Ham

On this trip that I took on the East Coast Safari class at the score race, we got to the bottom of the hill going up the Mikes. I said, Why don't you take the next 20 miles? Which, of course, was up to Mikes. And he got a real appreciation for... It's a pretty good stretch of road. It was a lot rougher back in 1969. When we got to the top, he said, I think I'm done now. Can you take over? But he did really get it. But the other thing that I got out of that trip was I was talking about some of the problems that we had with our trail system that used to be in existence when Caltrans comes through and cuts a new road and it parallels a piece of our or actually takes over the right of way of what used to be the right of way for the trail and it becomes a highway, that makes it illegal for green stickered vehicles. So when we used to be able to take a sand rail or something and go on a long trip, we're now stuck because we're not legal on the highway for the three or four mile connection.


[00:23:27.680] - Bob Ham

And in this case, I was talking about where there was a section going down to the road that heads up to Mikes. There was a four or five mile section of highway. And I told them in California, we'd be dead. That's the end of our trip because we can't take a green stick on that. And there ought to be a law that allows vehicles to use certain stretches of highway, green sticked vehicles, to either connect a trail or to leave a trail to go into a nearby town to get supplies, fuel, whatever, and go back to offroading. And the next year, he wrote assembly bill 1201. And to this day, it's possible to have certain sections of highway in California designated by the local jurisdiction as a dual use highway. And you can connect trails for those purposes to either obtain fuel supplies, services, lodging, or to connect two trail segments that have been disconnected because of a paved road going through it or highway going through it. So it was a productive trip taking the legislator along.


[00:25:04.100] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. That's awesome. That's really good. The only time that I've done anything like that was when we were up on the Rubicon after the incident where they closed down Spider Lake. And it was because of the... There's all sorts of different things that brought it about. But one of the local guys up here, Sweeney, put together groups along with Del Albright, to where we would take law enforcement and judges, federal judges, regular judges into the Rubicon and show them what it was that we were doing. And along with force service employees that may not have ever gotten into the Rubicon because they didn't have vehicles that were capable. They're driving around in their green trucks. And so that really helped establish the right away and through the forest service and everything that we now have to keep the Rubicon open. Those trips were outstanding where we got to take... We had a judge with us, a federal judge out of... He lived in Placerville area, but he was based in South Lake Tahoe, where his court was. He had never been on the Rubicon, yet he was deciding violations and whatever for service employees would write as a federal violation.


[00:26:44.680] - Big Rich Klein

He was overseeing those. And then now, after he got an appreciation for that, he had a better understanding of what the issues were up on the trail.


[00:26:59.200] - Bob Ham

There's nothing better than taking a decision maker out and change all of his images that they get built up by reading about what we do. And then when they actually see it, no, we're not driving all over the place. We're sticking pretty much to the trails because to do otherwise would be nuts. It's difficult enough just to stay on the trail and make it through there. But when you start going cross country, you're really asking to have your vehicle become a permanent piece of the landscape because it's going to get stuck and difficult to ever unstick.


[00:27:50.360] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So eventually you ended up working in the Reagan administration when Reagan was governor of California. Is that correct?


[00:28:03.190] - Bob Ham

Yeah. That's how I got to Sacramento. I was working for an oil company in the pricing department, and then there was the Arab oil embargo and the shortage and fuel was allocated. So pricing became not a very difficult thing. People would pay whatever they could get. It just to get it. So it became something that the state needed to run this allocation program because of the shortage. I happened to be in Sacramento on some other business for the oil company. And they asked me, we're looking for somebody who understands this stuff. Would you be interested in coming to Sacramento and helping us put together the allocation program? So that's how I got hired into the Reagan administration to run that program for the last year and a half of the Reagan administration, and then into Jerry Brown's era.


[00:29:20.320] - Big Rich Klein

And you were able to stay there through part of Brown's administration?


[00:29:25.680] - Bob Ham

Yeah, I became civil service, so you stuck with me.


[00:29:36.010] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, that's good to hear.


[00:29:39.300] - Bob Ham

But then I moved on from there since I now had a pretty good understanding of state government. And a friend of ours, a guy named Bob Hayes, who was a district 37 racer, got himself elected to the state assembly. So I started meeting a lot of the assembly members, and pretty soon the Republican minority leader in the assembly asked me to come work for the Republicans. I actually worked for the legislature for about six years before I moved on and started lobbying. But I learned all of the nuances of how legislation goes through and so on because I very quickly got promoted up to the position of chief committee consultant for a legislative committee. And that gave me a great background. Then when I decided to go out and lobby on behalf of the MIC and the Off Road Vehicle Legislative Coalition. I was pretty well skilled in the nuances of how bills actually really got through the legislature as opposed to the brochure that you get when you walk into a legislative office in Sacramento, it says how a bill becomes law or real. There's a lot more to it than what that pamphlet would describe.


[00:31:27.250] - Bob Ham

I was pretty much privy to a lot of how that actually happened. It helped me be effective at what I did.


[00:31:36.190] - Big Rich Klein

Right, because there's a lot more wheeling and dealing going on than what that pamphlet would lead you to believe.


[00:31:45.340] - Bob Ham

Yeah, exactly.


[00:31:46.660] - Big Rich Klein

I guess that's one reason that so much of the advocacy is, or at least maybe not the advocacy, but the lobbying is done by lawyers is because they have a better understanding of how that back end stuff works.


[00:32:13.930] - Bob Ham

Actually, lawyers are probably the second largest background. More of the lobbyists actually came from just the way I did, former legislative staffers.


[00:32:33.640] - Big Rich Klein



[00:32:33.880] - Bob Ham

Course, a lot of them are legislative staffers who were also lawyers because that's how they got hired as legislative staffers. But the absolute best background you could have going into becoming a legislative advocate or lobbyist is to have actually worked for a legislative committee and really got to understand the how's and whys of what you're going to be asked when you go to committee because you know how the bill analysis are put together by committee staff because you did it yourself. So you make sure that you have all of those questions asked before you take the bill to the next level.


[00:33:21.090] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, that makes sense. So we need to get more young offroaders involved with the state government?


[00:33:32.190] - Bob Ham

Yes, in state government positions and particularly in state legislative positions. I've had some friends and I've gotten started, but they never stayed with it. The best way to do that is if you see an open legislative seat and you see somebody who's running for that open seat, who just does not have a current position with the state legislature, get into his office, get on his volunteer staff for his campaign, help him get elected, and then keep hanging around until he hires you and begin learning the process. But you've got to get into that system. And the easiest way is to help somebody get elected. And if you're successful and you're talented enough, the newly elected legislator is going to wind up taking you on. And together, you'll both learn how the process works.


[00:34:48.660] - Big Rich Klein

Well, there you go. You've heard it here, everybody. Those of you that are adults that have teenagers or 20 somethings that are looking for something to do, get them involved and their offroaders, get them involved with your state legislation, legislators and open seats like that so that we can have some power back and have people in there that can work for us. That's something I didn't realize was the way about doing it. Of course, I'm a little too old to probably get involved with something like that now. But dang, I wish I'd have known that back in the '70s and '80s.


[00:35:42.690] - Bob Ham

It's something I've tried to encourage when I see young folks that are interested, I try to steer them in that direction, but it's difficult. I don't know what it is about the people that get attracted to offroading, but they seem to not really be interested in getting involved to that level with the nuances of how to make laws and how to engage in the process.


[00:36:23.630] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. You see that just with some of the organizations, whether it's Cal 4Wheel Drive or Corva, we don't have much of a youth movement. There's so many kids that have grown up in offroading that are still enjoying the offroad but don't understand that without their involvement, we may lose it. They may lose it. We got to work on that. Anybody with kids that are going offroading, if you happen to see me, understand that I may be doing like Bob has done, is trying to push people into the realization that that needs to happen. That's a warning to everybody. Let's talk about after that you went to work for the county of Imperial. Was that before we lost all the sand dunes?


[00:37:39.130] - Bob Ham

Well, we haven't lost all.


[00:37:40.330] - Big Rich Klein

Of them. No, not all of them. But we lost a large portion of the Imperial sand dunes.


[00:37:44.400] - Bob Ham

Yeah, the sand dunes thing came in the... I think it was the 1992 bill where they agreed that certain portion would be open for off road, a certain portion was going to be environment and so on. Of course, mammoth wash stayed open. And then down on the Southern part, the dunes were open, but there was a big swamp that was closed in the middle. That happened before I went down to Imperial County. Actually, when I got to Imperial County, I was ready to retire or try to retire because I had a place in San Philippe and I liked going down to Baha and staying there. When I wound up leaving the legislature, I was offered a job in Imperial County, just a part time thing with a local business. It was like a Chamber of Commerce group. It was a business promotion group from the Imperial Valley. And so I started working stuff in that county, and the county saw me and got acquainted with me. And they created a job because they also knew that I knew how everything worked in Sacramento. And Imperial County is as far from Sacramento as you can be and still be in California.


[00:39:27.560] - Bob Ham

So they felt like they weren't really getting understood because legislative districts are by population in California and Imperial County is traditionally the small populated county in Southern California. The entire county wound up being a piece of either a district in Riverside County or San Diego County. And so they felt like they weren't getting the notice they needed up in Sacramento. So they hired me and I became their director of legislative affairs. And off I went again. And I really did. I enjoyed working their issues and great people down there.


[00:40:23.840] - Big Rich Klein

And when did you finally get to retire?


[00:40:31.820] - Bob Ham

I think it was about 2014 or so. That's when my wife and I were... She was working for Imperial County then as well. Since I was retired and she was thinking about moving someplace else too, I said, We spent the last 10 years telling everybody what a great place Imperial County is, and it is, and that the weather isn't that bad. It's just a bunch of months in the summertime. And of course, it was about March at this point, and summertime starts in mid April down there. So we started thinking, That always sounded nice, but it's not t really would be nice to be someplace that is a little more comfort. And so we drove around and found Oceanside, and so we've been in Oceanside ever since.


[00:41:40.280] - Big Rich Klein

What at that point did you do to occupy your time? Do you still have the place in San Philippe?


[00:41:53.400] - Bob Ham

No, I sold that. I haven't been to Baha now since late last year because of health things that are giving me trouble. It's probably the longest period I've not been to Baha since College days in the mid 1960s. Sad.


[00:42:20.530] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I would imagine so. I haven't had an opportunity to get down there in the last couple of years as well, and I've been going through withdrawals on it, you might say. Tell me about being on the board of Ormhoff. What was that like? And how long were you on the board? Are you still on the board now?


[00:42:45.860] - Bob Ham

I'm on the board now, yeah. I've been on for a number of years. I enjoy it. It's a good group of people. The organization is great. When Rod Hall founded it, he made it different than a lot of halls of fame, I guess you might say. He does not. One of the things that Rod said more often than anything was it's not the offroad racing hall of fame, it's the offroad hall of fame. And that's what he wanted. He wanted people who excelled in racing and so on in their classes. But more importantly, he wanted people that had something to do with the sport of offroading and helped promote it and helped make the sport a better, a more popular item than just the racing aspect of it. There's probably as many offroad motorsports hall of fame and ductees whose role was similar to mine in land use or advocacy or promotion or something else, as opposed to just the guys who drive fast. That's certainly a criteria, especially for folks to get in competition classes. But it is not the singular thing that's going to get you into the Offroad Motor Sports Hall of Fame.


[00:44:40.530] - Bob Ham

Even some of the great ones that if all they did was drive fast, Rod Hall wasn't interested in them, particularly as a hall of Famer. That's a philosophy that's carried on, and I think it's a great one.


[00:44:57.200] - Big Rich Klein

I agree with that. I think that having an impact in the industry, which I'll call it... I like to call it the offroad industry, whether you're an enthusiast or a racer or an advocate or a fabricator or a business owner, media, but you're in this part of this industry that it is so much more than just the racing.


[00:45:30.230] - Bob Ham



[00:45:30.680] - Big Rich Klein

That's important to acknowledge those people.


[00:45:35.400] - Bob Ham

When I see some other organizations that do things in other activities like ORMHOF does. I really am proud of what we have in ORMHOF because it does include, as you say, every scope of our industry. People have a chance to become a hall of Famer, whether they're involved in the manufacture of products or promotion of events or racing or advocacy or whatever. They're all eligible to become hall of Famers. Touching on every aspect of the sport, it's pretty important consideration the way we have it set up. I agree.


[00:46:39.570] - Big Rich Klein

And hopefully with this podcast and others out there and some of the other media, we can get that word out that Ormhoff is not just a racer's hall of fame, but it's for everybody that's in the industry. There's that possibility. Well, excellent. Are there any other things that you want to talk about that we've skipped over or any stories that you want to add about driving in Baha during that Safari class race or any of the times that you were working with checkers or AMA events or anything like that?


[00:47:24.350] - Bob Ham

Not that I can think of.


[00:47:27.420] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, Bob, well, I want to say thank you so much for spending the time today. Okay, Rich. I hope to see you in September during the Ormhoff & Induction dinners, and the celebration of those being inducted this year. Hope to meet you in person and shake your hand. Okay.


[00:47:46.980] - Bob Ham

Look forward to seeing you in September. All right.


[00:47:49.680] - Big Rich Klein

You take care, Bob. Thank you. Okay. Take care.


[00:47:51.990] - Bob Ham

Bye bye.


[00:47:52.670] - Big Rich Klein

Bye. Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you would think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gust of you can. Thank you.