Flat Fender Aficionado, Travis C. Bunch, on Episode 172

Technically homeless, Travis C. Bunch lives in Moab with his ten cars. Yep, that says cars, not cats. Travis produces the Flat Fender Aficionado, a storytelling periodical. He’s got great insight into the world of Jeeps.  It’s a great listen, be sure to tune in on your favorite podcast app.

3:35 – with a Jeep you can turn it off when you’re getting over your head

12:29 – I’ve had over 62 cars so far, around 30 of them have been Jeeps              

21:47 – You guys are living in a school bus, right? 

27:29 – it took me a while to get over the programmed fear of getting shot on private property to be able to explore public lands

35:12 – we call those guys freegans

41:15 – I always say you got to have a love for pain and suffering if you’re going to be a flat fender driver

58:13 – the Go Devil Run is more of a reenactment of what the people do with the WWII stuff

Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[00:00:00.240] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the offroad industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call offroad. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active in offroad. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call offroad.

[00:00:46.160] - 

Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two. Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread Victoriously.

[00:01:13.010] -

Have you seen 4low magazine yet? 4low magazine is a high quality, well written, 4WD focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4Low is the magazine for you. 4Low cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4lowmagazine.com to order your subscription today.

[00:01:40.520] - Big Rich Klein

On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, we have Travis C. Bunch. We're going to find out about the C. We're also going to find out about periodical book that he's been putting out. Him walking away From 20 plus years as a mechanic in 2020 and going full head into his book, and the periodical book, I have to remind everybody, and that's Flat Fendering Aficionado. He also runs flatfendering.com and has a bunch of product there that you can look at or purchase, not look at. Go ahead and buy, man. Keep this guy going. Anyway, Travis, thank you so much for coming on board and spending some time with us and telling some stories.

[00:02:30.040] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad to have the chance.

[00:02:34.560] - Big Rich Klein

Let's start way back in the beginning. Where were you born and raised?

[00:02:41.810] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, I was born and raised in the Lake of the Ozarks. And it's basically an industrial tourism hotspot if you don't know where that is and what goes on there. But it's a lot like Moab. It's a little further ahead in their tourism. But yeah, it's feast or famine there. And a lot of times I ended up doing a lot of mechanic work in different fields there. But it's really similar to where we're at, just a little different climate and different types of people that come and recreate and different things to do.

[00:03:19.060] - Big Rich Klein

Right. The humidity is a lot different.

[00:03:22.810] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely. Yeah. You hardly have to drink water. You soak it up through your skin as osmosis.

[00:03:29.110] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. So what town did you live in around the Lake of the Ozarks?

[00:03:35.430] - Travis C. Bunch

The town, usually it was a couple of different ones. Camden, Missouri, it was. And then we have a horse farm out in Montreal, Missouri. So I grew up on a horse farm, which a lot of people would see me today and never think that. But that also gave me the love of getting out on the trail early on and the adrenaline rush of climbing things that you're not sure if you're going to be able to make or not. It's real similar to four wheeling, but I got tired of getting thrown off of horses and with a Jeep or whatever. You can turn it off when you're getting over your head where you can't with a horse.

[00:04:14.670] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, my dad says that he'll never ride a horse because it doesn't have a key.

[00:04:22.340] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely.

[00:04:23.890] - Big Rich Klein

Let's talk about those early horse years. Did you have a lot of chores feeding and mucking stalls, things like that?

[00:04:32.330] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, it was a daily type of deal around there. Towards my teenage years, I didn't really do as much of it anymore. I stepped out on my own, did a lot of working a lot. As soon as I got my driver's license, all the Ranch stuff was over with. I couldn't be stopped and was out on the road all the time.

[00:04:53.480] - Big Rich Klein

I think that happened to a lot of us. I got my driver's license in the early 70s, and I remember, man, I was just chomping at the bit. I already had a car, I'd already worked on it, had it running, was doing what I wanted to do, except I couldn't drive it to school. School was not that far for me either. I grew up in a fairly large town of about 50,000 people. But as soon as I got that driver's license, everything else I was doing came to a standstill. Absolutely.

[00:05:30.160] - Travis C. Bunch

That was that's freedom. You get out and you're a grown up all of a sudden in your eyes. Like I said, I started a whole infatuation with cars across the board, not just four wheel drives. A good part of that is going over to a friend's house and out in their garage. Their dads had car craft and hot rod and all those things laid out on the bench. You go through, pour through all that stuff and dream about what your next move was going to be.

[00:06:04.430] - Big Rich Klein

What was the school like for you? Was it easy or what kind of student were you?

[00:06:13.280] - Travis C. Bunch

I don't know. Some things came easy for sure. A lot of people ask me, how do you get to where you could... You don't look like you'd be much of a writer or have any English training or anything like that for writing and what it was was I just kept failing English over and over every year. I was in that class and it finally was like beat into my brain that this is how you talk and write.

[00:06:41.810] - Big Rich Klein

I got through all my English requirements by being the photography editor on the yearbook staff. Yeah, perfect. I didn't have to write a damn thing.

[00:06:53.230] - Travis C. Bunch

Exactly. Then got into vo tech in the auto stuff, auto mechanics training classes, and went from there. I thought to myself, I can really save myself a lot of money by not paying all these mechanics to work on their stuff, and I can modify my own vehicles. That's where I stepped in the mechanics world right there. That was the only reason, was just to have more for less.

[00:07:20.430] - Big Rich Klein

Well, besides working on the ranch and taking care of horses and stuff, as soon as you get as you could, what other employment did you start off with?

[00:07:34.790] - Travis C. Bunch

In that area, there's so many restaurants and bars all over the entire Lake area. It was really easy to get into the food service and whatnot. Up. So a lot of times I worked in food service in kitchens, and that was pretty good. Bounce around and do different things all the time, which is really nice as a poor teenager trying to buy speed and gas, hey, you can eat free dinner whenever you get done or have a break at the kitchen, wherever you're working. So that was a big advantage, too, of being a team with a limited budget.

[00:08:13.120] - Big Rich Klein

I can imagine so. From working in the restaurants and then you were taking the vocational classes and the auto tech classes, when did that change over to where you started? After the restaurants, what did you do?

[00:08:35.120] - Travis C. Bunch

I was moved right into working at the car lot. So being a detail guy and then doing little tiny light mechanic work, running car s back and forth from the car lot to the big dealer auctions and stuff that were three hours away in St. Louis or Kansas City or Springfield, Missouri. That was a course right there with what you always want to do as a teenager is drive Corvettes or Mustangs and stuff back and forth to the auction by half unsupervised. You're supervised, but then you get to play with all these cars that you don't get to afford or maybe wouldn't really buy but like to go for a daily cruise in them.

[00:09:16.590] - Big Rich Klein

There you go. I had a job where I worked as... When I was 14, I was working as a shop boy, you might say, cleaning up and organizing parts and all that stuff and doing some stereo installs. This is back in the early 70s when nobody, no car dealerships. They didn't come with... They came with an AM radio. They didn't come with a lot of of cars, didn't come with air conditioning. So we did aftermarket air conditioning and stereo installs and all sorts of that stuff for the dealers or for people that had already bought their cars and then bought them stock and then wanted them upgraded. But we also did motor homes. So at 16, the boss said, Okay, you get to drive now and you get to drop off clients and pick them up and get them back to their car and get them back to work, whatever. But now you got to go drive this motor home. The first time, it was a Class A, I don't know, a Winnebago or something that was 40 foot long. Sure. And first of all, they told me, Okay, it's in the lot. It's this number.

[00:10:35.860] - Big Rich Klein

Here are the keys. Take it. And I get out there and I find it, finally. And there is no room to open the door and get in the damn thing. And when I was 16, I wasn't real big. I was probably 5'9 and 170 pounds or something like that. But it was like, How in the heck am I getting in there? Figured it out, drove it for the first time in traffic in the San Francisco Bay area. I was just like, What am I doing? I've had my license for three days and driving a 40 foot motor home. It's good training, I guess.

[00:11:18.010] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, that's a wild ride for a youngster, for sure. Absolutely. It had been quite a while until I'd gotten to where I could drive something that big. Even just an opportunity other than just a one time fun truck.

[00:11:31.060] - Big Rich Klein

I have to say the coolest car that I got to drive back then was a Jensen Interceptor with the 455.

[00:11:37.700] - Travis C. Bunch

Oh, yeah, that's good stuff. That was a.

[00:11:40.380] - Big Rich Klein

Bad, bad car, especially back in those days.

[00:11:46.270] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely. We had some little cars and stuff like that at the specialty car lot I worked at. Some of those stuff was dangerous for sure.

[00:11:57.900] - Big Rich Klein

What was your first car?

[00:11:59.920] - Travis C. Bunch

My first car was a typical '90s kid car. It was a '95 was when I got my driver's license. So I had a '83 Z 28. Didn't have tops or anything like that. I wore out 350 in an automatic in it. I barely turned the tires. But, man, it was the coolest thing I've had at the time that I could find.

[00:12:28.680] - Big Rich Klein

Was it gold?

[00:12:29.690] - Travis C. Bunch

No, it wasn't gold, actually. It was a silver one with a charcoal interior in it. But it didn't last that long. I think I had about six months and flipped it up on its lid, and that was the end of that Camaro. That stuff just doesn't even stop to this day. So still playing like that. I've had over 62 cars so far. Wow. Yeah, around 30 of them have been Jeeps. So a lot of Jeeps, but a lot of different makes and models of stuff. I'm really across the board with what I interest me.

[00:13:09.680] - Big Rich Klein

Right. You're not brand specific.

[00:13:13.560] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely not. No, I'm a realist when it comes to that. All this stuff is junk. So all you need to do is pick whatever thing you'd like to look at is pretty much it.

[00:13:26.070] - Big Rich Klein

I can remember going to Moab and meeting Marlin. And he from Marlin Crawler. And it was during the Toyota, whatever they do there in Moab, and what did they call it? And we had just bought an '84 Series 60 Toyota. Cool. And it was all bone stock. And I mean stock to the point where we killed it later that year or the next year with 412,000 miles on it. Oh, wow. The tie rod ends were held together with hose clips, the alligator type clips. And it's sitting in the driveway right now because my wife, Shelly, wants to rebuild the motor. That's the next thing on the list here in the next month or so is I'm going to pull the hood off of that, and we're going to pull the engine and then she's going to go step by step and get a chance to rebuild the motor. But I remember seeing Marlin, and we walk up to the vendor show and he goes, Rich, you're a Jeep guy. What are you doing here? And I looked up and said, Marlin, I've never been brand specific. I drive a Toyota now. And his eyes got really big.

[00:14:44.260] - Big Rich Klein

And I was expecting him to say, What did Hell just freeze over or something? But I've owned, I think, just about every brand of vehicle that American made at one time or another. So what was the favorite car you ever had that you wish you had back?

[00:15:05.430] - Travis C. Bunch

That's a really tough question. In a car, and it's actually almost unattainable anymore. I never thought it would be, it's probably the 71 Chevel that I had in high school. And that was a really... It was a beater, but it had a really hot 355 in it with solid lifters and a single plane intake, big carburetor, three speed and two converted to the floor that just had the wrong gear ratio. But it was a really fun car to drive. Nowadays, you can't hardly get into one of those anymore for 15 grand for a piece of junk.

[00:15:44.600] - Big Rich Klein

Blue?

[00:15:46.040] - Travis C. Bunch

No, this one was red. It did have a blue turn signal housing on one side. That's funny you say blue. I had a terrible paint job on it. Just looked like a sack of potatoes, had slot mags on the back and Kregers on the front. It was something to behold.

[00:16:08.210] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Was it a chick magnet?

[00:16:13.990] - Travis C. Bunch

That one? Yeah, not really. I don't know. It's in that year, everybody liked the 90s stuff like Fox Body Mustangs and all those Jeeps, Wranglers. Everybody had Jeeps. Those were the chick magnet. We could throw the top down and cruise the strip, which is like a Coney Island spot at the Lake of the Ozarks. So we'd cruise that every night and look at everybody and do burnouts and try to pop wheelies and our stuff and be hooligans.

[00:16:48.910] - Big Rich Klein

The.

[00:16:51.100] - Travis C. Bunch

Old junker muscle car that was super fast and loud was scary. So nobody was trying to get in that thing with me except for the boys, that's for sure. And they still talk about that to this day. Back in the day, cruising in the old Chevel. Between that and that, I had a '89 Florida Highway Patrol Mustang marked car. That was another one that... That's the tide between the Chevel.

[00:17:16.650] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And did that have the police brakes and the police tires and the police engine?

[00:17:25.650] - Travis C. Bunch

Exactly. Absolutely. Yes, set up just like the blues mobile. Absolutely.

[00:17:31.960] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. The thing scuted pretty good then with that interceptor motor, right?

[00:17:38.800] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah. It was an open highway car, so it had the higher gear ratio. It had the two 72 or something like that in the back. So you could just really run out each gear in it and make it seem like it was a lot faster than it was, for sure. Donuts, that thing would just lay him down like a tilt a world at the carnival. It was amazing.

[00:17:59.030] - Big Rich Klein

I know you're married. When did you meet your wife?

[00:18:05.900] - Travis C. Bunch

2004 or so, something like that. We've been married and together married 18 years, together around 20.

[00:18:14.270] - Big Rich Klein

So she's.

[00:18:15.350] - Travis C. Bunch

A car gal. So it's funny, we have always way too many cars all the time, but she gets really sentimental with these things and then demands that I never sell them. I can't argue with that. So we just end up having tons of cars all the time. When we first got together, she had a 65 Mustang Fastback, 289 automatic, red black interior. It was a really neat car. I had that and I had the cop car at that time. So we were a Mustang couple.

[00:18:48.120] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. And where did you meet her at?

[00:18:52.480] - Travis C. Bunch

She lived in the same neighborhood as I did. And we'd, of course, see each other driving around in our classic cars. And she worked at a resale thrift shop too that I would go to and go picking for antiques and vintage clothes and whatnot. So we always had a relationship there, too.

[00:19:13.750] - Big Rich Klein

Was that in Missouri?

[00:19:16.630] - Travis C. Bunch

Camden, yeah.

[00:19:18.880] - Big Rich Klein

From Missouri, where did you guys end up? What was your next stop?

[00:19:24.940] - Travis C. Bunch

We went straight to Moab. We'd traveled around quite a bit. It's like to the Caribbean and all around the US. One day we made it out there with a new Wrangler that we ended up with, not new, but new to us as a 99 TJ. Finally, we had something reliable enough we could drive across the country and go wheeling and come back. That's when we started coming out here and deciding that was where we needed to be. But we got two kids and they're both close to the same age. As soon as those guys graduated high school at their homeschools, we went ahead and took off. That was our getaway time.

[00:20:07.800] - Big Rich Klein

Interesting. Interesting. How long you've been in Moab now?

[00:20:15.120] - Travis C. Bunch

Been here around five years.

[00:20:16.740] - Big Rich Klein

Five years, okay. For some reason, I thought you had a stop in Arizona.

[00:20:23.540] - Travis C. Bunch

Now, that's actually more recent. Yeah, we've been talking... It's so hard to live in Moab unless you're either independently wealthy or you work five jobs or you have one or two very successful jobs. Right. Since 2020, we've been looking for somewhere that is some affordable at all and still remote and whatnot. We settled on Northern Arizona near Show Low. We bought a little acreage down there and eventually, maybe we'll be able to be able to retire down there after we get done, get run out of Moab.

[00:21:05.550] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Okay. You're living... Shelly and I have lived the last... Well, when I bought the Dodge Mahal or the semi truck, which is converted into an RV, I bought that in 2010 from Rick Durmo down in Dove Creek. And we started living in that in 2011 full-time and traveling the country, putting on the events. And then that's why we developed not only W e Rock, but then we expanded and did the dirt riot races so that we could just stay on the road.

[00:21:46.980] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah.

[00:21:47.390] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. Now, we're not spending as much time in the semi truck, but you guys are living in a school bus, correct?

[00:22:02.100] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely. Yeah, it's a 1959 Chevrolet. It's about a 30 footer. I don't remember how many seats would have been in it at that time. That's usually how people will describe how big their bus is. But ours was converted to an RV back sometime, I can tell, in the 60s. So it wasn't really that old and somebody converted it to a really nice RV. And we found it in Moab, dying in the dust. So we scraped all the nastiness out of it and have been turning it into a pretty nice little tiny home now.

[00:22:38.360] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. I don't mind living small.

[00:22:42.470] - Travis C. Bunch

I really got to like it. We've been living small for quite a few years now, and it's good. I don't like having all the stuff. I don't need the stuff. That's all the house is for is to accumulate more stuff. Pretty sure George Carlin did a bit.

[00:23:01.070] - Big Rich Klein

About that. Everybody always says, The guy who ends up having the most stuff when he dies wins. I don't quite agree with that. I just don't want stuff hanging around. I want stuff that I can use.

[00:23:18.230] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely. Yeah, exactly.

[00:23:22.130] - Big Rich Klein

So do you have a garage there?

[00:23:24.690] - Travis C. Bunch

Kind of. We live on a property. As a friend of mine, as Mike Nappe, who's a King of the Hammers Racer, and he's got that R&B 4x4 shop in La Salle Junction. I help him out when he needs an extra hand around the shop, especially on this older stuff that's now starting to come in broken from Moab trail repairs. Annie lets me use the shop a little bit here, here and there.

[00:23:53.490] - Big Rich Klein

Great.

[00:23:54.940] - Travis C. Bunch

Okay.

[00:23:55.600] - Big Rich Klein

They give you a place to store some of the cars because I'm sure you have more than just the... What are you driving now?

[00:24:05.510] - Travis C. Bunch

Definitely multiple things. We live in Moab, technically homeless, and have nine vehicles. Actually, 10 now. We have 10 now. I got to count the new Golden Eagle too.

[00:24:16.230] - Big Rich Klein

There you go.

[00:24:17.990] - Travis C. Bunch

Right now, my wheeling Willys, which was a trade in, it's not really powered and ready to be driving back and forth to Moab on the highway. I've got a little $300 Beter Ranger I've been going back and forth to town with on the highway that's a little more safer. It's a little harder for the semis to run over me in that truck.

[00:24:40.610] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:24:41.530] - Travis C. Bunch

If I don't do that, it's two hours to get to town on dirt in the Willys, which is fun, but it's not always what I need to be doing.

[00:24:50.730] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Not real convenient.

[00:24:52.570] - Travis C. Bunch

No.

[00:24:53.190] - Big Rich Klein

It's not. From La Salle Junction, do you cross over the highway then 191 and then go down town, go out, or are you staying on that east side?

[00:25:06.580] - Travis C. Bunch

To get into town on dirt? Yeah. That's going to be... We just go right across highway 46, and then there's a road called Browns Hole Road, and it goes all the way to area BFE. Then you pass BFE and you can come out on the highway there, but of course, I don't. I go next to the highway and come down what they call Yellow Circle. T hat's where a lot of people camp, and that's the staging area for the old strike ravine trail. Then just come in Spanish Valley down there. I timed it. It's about two hours, no matter how you slice it. It just can't go any faster than that in anything I own right now. I think Navi can do it a lot faster in his V8 Cherokee with the big shocks, for sure.

[00:25:51.100] - Big Rich Klein

I can imagine.

[00:25:52.060] - Travis C. Bunch

I can't hang with that yet.

[00:25:56.470] - Big Rich Klein

I tried taking that road you're talking about, and there was a winter where Shelly and I lived at Danny Grimes' house, Grandpa's garage. And it was like 90 days or so we were there in Moab, and we tried to go that back road. And I got to an area where there was just signs all over the place that said, Private property, no trespassing. And it looked like they were trying to keep you from going down the main road. And I know that it was probably the properties on either side of the road. But at that point, I just turned around and came back. But that's probably the road that you're talking about.

[00:26:42.480] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, absolutely it is. I've tried it myself before I really knew what the route was. Before I met the guys, before I met Nappy and his friends out there at the junction, they told me exactly how to do it. They said, Yeah, don't worry about those signs. You'll pass through all that and eventually have to open some and stuff. It looks really rural, but eventually it turns into.

[00:27:03.550] - Big Rich Klein

The road. There's gates and everything you have to open and close.

[00:27:07.110] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, that's the common thing out here is just there's free range cattle gates everywhere. And if you don't really know that once you get that actual gate says private property, you can always go through them. You just put them back. Right.

[00:27:22.940] - Big Rich Klein

Leave them as you found them.

[00:27:24.690] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah. Back in Missouri, that's not the case. It's all private property and you'll get shot.

[00:27:29.200] - Big Rich Klein

Right, exactly.

[00:27:29.970] - Travis C. Bunch

It took me a while to get over that whole programmed fear of getting shot and being on private property to be able to explore this public land out here that we have. But that's the whole reason we moved out here was we ran out of stuff to run in Missouri. There's like three parks and that's about it. Rest is private. Here, we can just tool around for hours out in the middle of nowhere.

[00:27:56.550] - Big Rich Klein

When you were back in Missouri and you had your first couple of cars, how did you get into wheeling?

[00:28:06.640] - Travis C. Bunch

That's a funny situation. I'm from a split up family and my mom had bought a cabin down in this little valley and the driveway was just a goat path to get into it. In Missouri, in the Ozarks, the hills aren't really that tall compared to mountains, but I'll tell you what, they're straight up and down steep. There was two times I had the old Camaro down in there, second Camaro, and getting it stuck, burn the tires off in the gravel and whatnot. Finally, I'm like, I need some four wheel drive. My mom had a Bronco 2 stick shift. She drove up and down it, no problem. And that wasn't really for me, but went back to one of the car lots that I used to work at, and there was a bright red, shiny C J7 Laredo 1986 model with a 4 speed Dana 44 rear and had to trade in the old '89 RS Camaro for that, but bad boy. I never looked back on that. I've always had a 4WD as either a primary or second or third vehicle at all times now.

[00:29:16.760] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[00:29:17.920] - Travis C. Bunch

Okay. It was basically like a wheelie every day. Yeah, totally out of necessity.

[00:29:23.240] - Big Rich Klein

Once you had that 4WD freedom, did you start a lot of exploring then?

[00:29:30.080] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, as much as you really can in that area. There was a lot of undeveloped land and safe subdivisions that weren't finished or whatever went under. So there was a little bit of wheeling to be done there. But a lot of it was just mud and mud running and whatnot. If there was any event, that's what it was. So we did get into some mud racing for a while, and that's fun for a while. But after so many years of washing out mud and broken fields and nastiness, the fun wears off. Now I try to avoid mud at any cost whatsoever.

[00:30:13.520] - Big Rich Klein

I agree. I hate mud.

[00:30:16.890] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah.

[00:30:17.430] - Big Rich Klein

Shout out to Woody.

[00:30:19.280] - Travis C. Bunch

Exactly. I hate mud. Com. Still relevant, absolutely. Yes.

[00:30:26.950] - Big Rich Klein

Let's talk about how you got into the want of stepping away from being a regular job and going after the book, doing the periodical. What's the whole story behind that and talk about what the periodical is?

[00:30:55.280] - Travis C. Bunch

I've always loved telling stories. I love listening to stories. I love people that can tell them. Even from early on, mainly in high school, I'd had supposed to do a report on such and such. I ended up would write a paper about a wheeling trip that we did that weekend because I was just obsessed. About the time JP magazine became a thing, I had gotten my first cheap and I was in high school reading those books, those magazines all the time and following, of course, Rick and everybody's adventures back then. I always said in my back of my head, one day when I retire, when I'm done working, I'm going to write articles for the magazine. I don't care who it is or what it's about. Hopefully it's for JP, but that continued up until we moved to Moab. I had to tell my wife, Yeah, it's getting close. We can retire and I can sit on the beach in Baha and write magazine articles for JP. Not 2019 came around and everybody's getting bought out and folding. And it's like, Wow, now my retirement plan has totally changed. I'm going to have to do something here completely different.

[00:32:20.950] - Big Rich Klein

You needed to pivot, huh?

[00:32:22.880] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah. I'm like, This is time to do something now. Of course, COVID hit and I was just not really out of work, but it was slowed way down because the tourists couldn't come to town. So I decided to do something on my own.

[00:32:38.330] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, because Moab absolutely shut down. They just told everybody, We don't want anybody here.

[00:32:45.090] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, absolutely. There was locals that were fighting campers out of Ken's Lake, fifth fight, get out of our town. It was just madness. We just hung back in our little house that came with my job as part of it. And it was like, we need to get out of this house that is attached to this job that I don't really like anymore. And there's what happens if town shuts down again? Because it was all uncertain. We didn't know. So every time to make the leap.

[00:33:19.210] - Big Rich Klein

And you did. The school bus.

[00:33:22.330] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah. Decided, yeah, time to move to the school bus so we can cut back on rent. Every place to rent around here is a thousand dollars a room. So if you want a three bedroom house, that's $3,000 a month. So that's why everybody's got two and three jobs. That takes all of our adventure time out and all the fun of why we moved to Moab to begin with. It wasn't to move in here and work 24 hours a day.

[00:33:49.900] - Big Rich Klein

Well, and that's the thing with Moab is that I know everybody always has a... I mean, it's so common to see help wanted signs. And everybody I talk to that has a business in Moab says that people come to work, as soon as they get their first paycheck, maybe two, then they disappear.

[00:34:12.040] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, that's a fact.

[00:34:14.010] - Big Rich Klein

And it's hard to keep gameful employment or keep your business running with that employment because you're constantly having to try to teach people to do what you want them to do. And then they disappear because they're on the river or they're cliff, they're climbing cliffs or bicycleing or something. Absolutely. They're there to party or to adventure. And then the other thing that drives me nuts is when you see all those people that maybe live on the river rats or the cliff dwellers. There you go. It's hard to say.

[00:34:59.410] - Travis C. Bunch

When.

[00:35:00.550] - Big Rich Klein

They get down to city market and they peruse and munch, it's like they're... It's like they're grazing. Nobody actually buys anything.

[00:35:12.090] - Travis C. Bunch

Right. Yeah, we call those freegans.

[00:35:14.630] - Big Rich Klein

Freegans.

[00:35:16.800] - Travis C. Bunch

They're the ones that steal the salt off the tables, the hot sauce off the table, the restaurant.

[00:35:25.090] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I saw a guy in there one time and he was buying mushrooms and he broke off all the stems and took just the caps.

[00:35:34.790] - Travis C. Bunch

That's a very Moab thing to hear about for sure.

[00:35:39.800] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. And another time having some guy, there was like three or four people standing there. You could tell that they were living on the river. And they had, by the way, they were dressed and stuff. And they all had something to eat and they were sharing it amongst themselves. And I just stood there and stared at them. And the guy noticed me staring and he goes, he holds a bag of chips open to me and goes, Who? You want some? That's why I was staring at him. I wanted some of his chips. And I was like, Thanks, but no, thanks, man. Whatever. And I just walked off. I couldn't understand it. And the employees are just walking right past them.

[00:36:21.780] - Travis C. Bunch

They're nonconfrontational. Absolutely. Some of those people just don't even care with their job either. They're just there to get their paycheck. So many things are left in shambles in these stores and whatnot because people don't care. They're just hanging out to get a check. But a lot of those people are just nomads and they go back and forth to all these different places, like whatever, Jackson Hole or down to Joshua tree, and they'll go to different places in the different seasons. So you'll see the same people, but they're never here all the time.

[00:37:02.330] - Big Rich Klein

Right. That makes sense.

[00:37:07.060] - Travis C. Bunch

Winter is pretty tough in Moab. It can get pretty gloomy and pretty cold for a long time, it seems. Looking at spots in Baha and whatnot, that's still on our radar to get out of this funk during the wintertime. It can get pretty rough.

[00:37:22.650] - Big Rich Klein

I did enjoy our winter there, though, because there was nobody on the trails. You could start off in the morning and go do a trail. By two o'clock, you've got a foot of snow that you're trying to get out of to get back. But it was fun. I enjoyed it. Except there really was nobody to wheel with.

[00:37:45.160] - Travis C. Bunch

No, you're really on your own and you got to really plan ahead and be mindful of what you're going to do because you can get yourself in a really bad situation in the wintertime around here. People always say, There's no mud in Moab. Well, you're not here when the mud is here and you don't go to the places where the mud is. The mud is no joke out here. Last time I took my Willys out, I got stuck in mud and had to walk six miles. I'm starting a new YouTube channel and that was my first videos were me going out on our little adventure doing that and then walking home stuck. Going back and getting the super Cherokee to pull us out. But it's unforgiving for sure. If there had been in wintertime, that would have been a whole different story and situation that we probably wouldn't have been laughing about all day long.

[00:38:36.800] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Because some of those creek bottoms and stuff that don't flow at all when most people are there, they end up becoming like quicksand.

[00:38:49.260] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely they will. We had crossed over a little stream, tiny stream, probably about two foot wide at the most and maybe a foot deep. And we'd cross this snowmelt runoff stream probably seven times throughout the day. And we were headed back towards R&B 4x4 where we live. And the last time we crossed it, that thing was probably two foot wide and three feet deep. And it absolutely swallowed both front tires, put my winch into the mud. I had to dig the winch totally out of the mud to be able to use it, try it out, which didn't work because there was just sage brush everywhere. I don't have a dead man or a like a pole p ow or anything, but didn't expect to have to use it. You cross that creek so many times during the day, you're fine. You get complacent by the end of the day.

[00:39:44.060] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So let's talk some more about the book and what articles that you put into it and what it really is all about. So give me your elevator pitch, you might say.

[00:40:00.100] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, it's just a periodical to follow along all of us crazy flatfender guys, which I will say are a different breed of offroader. And we got adventure stories in there, tech articles that are pretty much tailored to the Willys stuff only. And I try to keep... A lot of my friends that I've met out here since I've moved out, they make products for these Willys. So I try to push these graphs roost products and go from there. I've got a little bit of humor here and there. We got R. J. In the back that makes up a story with a vintage picture of eBay for sale. I'll buy it and send it to him, and he just comes up with the billious stuff. It's just a good snapshot of us flat vendor guys and what we love.

[00:40:52.270] - Big Rich Klein

What are some of the stories that you can tell me about some of these different breed of wheelers, the guys that love the flat fenders? I know a lot of them already. But I would imagine you being one of the locals there that's into the flat fenders. Whenever they come into town, you're on their hit list.

[00:41:15.790] - Travis C. Bunch

A lot of times. Then, of course, it's became to where we got little cliques nowadays, and not everybody communicates with everybody all the time. So some guys will show up in the town and I don't even know they're going to be here and then we meet up. But yeah, I always say you got to have a love for pain and suffering if you're going to be a flat fender driver. That's for sure.

[00:41:40.430] - Big Rich Klein

My first Jeep was a 46, but it had a 215 all aluminum, and it's like the Buick or Pontiac motor. Absolutely. A screaming little V8. Oh, my God. That thing screamed.

[00:41:58.380] - Travis C. Bunch

Those are great engines for a flat vendor. Fender for sure. That's a real good 60s, 70s period swap thing for sure. I think those are like the Land Rover motor. They took the design too and ran with that for some of theirs also.

[00:42:13.840] - Big Rich Klein

They actually bought the design from... Rover bought that and that's that 3.8 that they still use.

[00:42:22.230] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, such an awesome motor. Still in use, so cool. That's a rad first cheap for sure.

[00:42:28.540] - Big Rich Klein

No roll cage. I bought it when I was in Cedar City and we were out there at three peaks all the time. Everything on it was stock except for that engine. I don't even think that there was anything else besides the engine that everything else was stock. I put 30 threes on it and would tear up all the steering and everything all the time. But dropping off with just a windshield and a bee hoop. I was doing some pretty stupid things, and there's a picture that I've got somewhere that just shows us leaning back in the seats as it's standing on the front bumper, just hoping it doesn't go all the way over. I thought I was going to die that day.

[00:43:23.270] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely. Yeah. No, it still lives on. That stuff through Sean Smith and all of us for sure. Him more famously than all of us because he just wheels all the time with no roll bar. But my Jeeps come with a roll bar usually end up when I buy them. So I just leave them in there. Except for the go devil run, we don't ever do anything technical enough. I guess if you crashed in the ditch at speed, you'd be in pretty bad shape. But there's never anything like you're talking about with the standing on the nose and with the come to Jesus moment. There's none of that going on in that run.

[00:43:58.160] - Big Rich Klein

I can remember coming across Eric Filar on Behind the Rocks. It's that first climb that I call it a gatekeeper climb. He was up there with his flatfender, and I pulled up in the Cherokee, and I just couldn't get over the edge. I said, Hey, you want to spot me? He just, Come a little more, driver. It started to climb. He says, Okay, now turn passenger. It went right up. Now I know the line on that thing. But there's no getting out on that and trying to figure out what you're going to do unless you get it all the way back down to the bottom.

[00:44:39.640] - Travis C. Bunch

For sure. Now you can get in a tight spot on that trail for sure in anything. It doesn't matter what.

[00:44:43.770] - Big Rich Klein

Size it is. Yeah. And watching Ryan Miller drive down with his little Rally jeep that they built for Kali to do the rebel in and driving off a high dive, I was like, You're an idiot, dude. There's no way I wouldn't drive anything down that. I put on hardcore events, but I'm not a hardcore Wheeler.

[00:45:09.090] - Travis C. Bunch

Right. Yeah. I don't know. It just happens, that's for sure. But we get those little flat fenders in these predicaments. It's funny because there's a special magical formula of the size and power to weight ratio and all of that in a stock one. You put two lockers in it and they're just unstoppable. Small tires, it doesn't affect your gear to crawl ratios that are factory and whatnot. But if you start to deviate from that, you have to pretty much commit and go all the way to...

[00:45:41.880] - Travis C. Bunch

You got to pretty much go in between. It doesn't really work. It's either big tires, big motor, big axles, or you keep it stock. In between, it just doesn't really work that good.

[00:45:52.950] - Big Rich Klein

I don't think that most people nowadays because the guys that I'm talking about, the people that came into wheeling with the JKs, they don't understand that the flat fenders, the suspension is all built into the frame. Those little tiny springs that you're running on, those old military wrap springs and all that stuff and sprung under and everything is not what gives you your suspension travel. It's the frame twisting.

[00:46:27.040] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, that frame twists a lot. And you don't notice it until you get all bound up and all of a sudden your clutch doesn't work. The gas pedal is all in a weird spot now. That's the big thing with it. And like I said, it's either got to be fully boxed and rigid, or else it's got to be able to flex really good.

[00:46:48.250] - Big Rich Klein

Agreed. And so how do people get involved if they wanted to get your book? And how often does it come out?

[00:46:59.300] - Travis C. Bunch

So I've really not had a set schedule on just basically because of how uncertain everything is around Moab and after all the COVID problems and stuff. I didn't really want to set, hey, it's going to be every month at this time, exactly, we're going to have the book ready because it just doesn't work like that right now for me and some other people. So we just pretty much put them together as we can get them done. And if we have content or not, it all plays into it also.

[00:47:32.540] - Big Rich Klein

Creating content can be a pain in the butt.

[00:47:35.780] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely it is. And some of my friends that contribute, I'm like, You guys are putting out these amazing posts on social media and stuff, tech stuff or whatever that's profound. And then it just gets lost in the algorithm. I'm like, Let's just put this in paper so that things like when photo bucket decides they're not going to do the pictures for everybody anymore on the forums, which was a big thing back in the pirate days. I'm like, Let's save this stuff before Facebook implodes because that's not going to be around forever. I don't really think it could be, but I don't know.

[00:48:18.450] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I've got everything that I have on Facebook archived.

[00:48:21.750] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, you got to in multiple places. I made some bad jokes that the Zuckerberg didn't like, and he deleted my entire account last year. So I had to start over again with my new account.

[00:48:36.110] - Big Rich Klein

That's why I don't do those Reels things and things like that. Because if you do it live on there, you don't have the content anymore.

[00:48:45.210] - Travis C. Bunch

No. And that's why I'll post my Instagram and it does a Reel that will transfer over to Facebook that disappears. But it's always in my Instagram, so that's good. I do see that app staying around a lot longer. It's not nearly as controversial with the politics and all.

[00:49:04.310] - Big Rich Klein

That stuff. True, but it's still owned by Meta.

[00:49:07.580] - Travis C. Bunch

That's true. Yeah.

[00:49:10.400] - Big Rich Klein

So then is it a hard cover or is it a magazine style?

[00:49:16.470] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah. I wanted what they call a perfect bound book. So it's got a nice, thick, glossy cover that's laminated together with a hard edge on the spine. And honestly, I wanted to have someone locally in Moab do it. And I talked to the local print shop and they said, no, we can do a spiral bound or we can do this little less quality paper for the cover. And I looked at what they had, like a diner's guide or like a coupon book. I'm like, Nobody's... They might buy it, but this isn't something that somebody's going to leave on the table for a while and be really neat looking. So I had a ran into a guy in Grand Junction, Colorado, two hours away, one man operation print shop. He's like, Oh, yeah, I can definitely do this for you. And I really appreciate what you're doing with trying to keep print alive. So he's been a really big help this entire time and taught me the process of being a publisher and stuff like that. I had absolutely no idea what that entailed until I did a little Google research on that and decided, Hey, you apply for an LLC and do the leg work on finding a printer and you're a publisher.

[00:50:35.000] - Big Rich Klein

Right. That's basically what happened to us when we purchased For a Low and started publishing it. We took it over at issue 17 was our first one. The guy we bought it from, the intention was to keep him on as an editor and that wasn't going to work out, we found out right away because he still wanted to run it the way he was running it, which obviously is why he he had to sell it. So it was like, Okay, we're going to make some changes. And he flipped out on that. So all of a sudden we're like, Okay, we got to figure this out. And luckily, we contacted a few people that we know that are in publishing and said, Okay, what do we need to do? And we had a big learning curve. I should say my wife, Shelly, had a huge learning curve. I just make suggestions. And I shoot some of the pictures and write a few of the articles but she does all the hard work. And every two months, we got to have that magazine out. And that deadline section there for two weeks while we're putting it all together is crazy.

[00:51:47.390] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely. It really is, too. It is.

[00:51:51.080] - Big Rich Klein

Without having friends to help out with the articles and understand what we're trying to do, it couldn't be done. The magazine industry as it used to be, it'll never go back to that, I don't think.

[00:52:09.140] - Travis C. Bunch

I don't think it will either.

[00:52:10.270] - Big Rich Klein

No, I don't. Sure. It's one of those things that it's a labor of love. Without having the friends helping out with doing the articles and stuff, there's no way that we could pay for the articles to be done, right now at least, the way that the model of the magazine industry in the past.

[00:52:36.000] - Travis C. Bunch

Sure. Yeah. The money's just not there. No, it's not. We make all of our money. Bread and butter is on our T shirts, stickers, mugs, and all the little swag that we sell on our website. That's where we live on, for sure, which is definitely still not much.

[00:52:55.720] - Big Rich Klein

It's difficult. And so how much are you charging for when you do put out an issue?

[00:53:05.610] - Travis C. Bunch

Right now, they're at $15 with your postage included. Of course, unless it's overseas, then they have to pay the shipping costs. But it's selling eight countries, so they're going all over the place. But eventually, we're going to have to bring the price up because literally, I want to say, postage has went up four or five times since we've.

[00:53:30.660] - Big Rich Klein

Started this. What we found is it's the paper cost.

[00:53:36.360] - Big Rich Klein

And we're doing the same thing. We've got a heavier cover, heavier pages on the inside. And the cost, I think the last issue we just put out, issue 51, is there was no price increase on the paper. And it was like, Wow, that's the first time. Every issue since the end of 2019, every issue, they've raised the price of production.

[00:54:04.030] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely. Yeah. Last year, we couldn't even get the paper that we wanted, and it took forever. And at the print shop, I'm the only one that uses that stuff. So my printer, Mark, he'll order these boxes of paper just for me only for my next book. So we got nine books out so far, and it was going to be by season, but I've gotten to where I'm just going to number them now. The issue 10 is the one we're working on now.

[00:54:37.830] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent.

[00:54:39.060] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah.

[00:54:40.170] - Big Rich Klein

And so they can go to... Anybody that's interested in that could go to flatfenderring. Com and do that?

[00:54:46.870] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah. As long as our pre order is open or if we have back issues that are available, then we'll have those there too for sale. Those are usually buy and ship things unless they do a big package order and waiting on the other books and stuff. But yeah, that's where we sell everything. And social media, as much as I hate it, 90 % of the time, that's our best advertising route right now still.

[00:55:13.740] - Big Rich Klein

I agree. I agree. Just today I did. My issue 51s showed up to the house here, so I broke one out and did a preview video. And every time I do a preview video, the first day, we get a bunch of new subscriptions, and then it tapers off, and then I repost it, and then we get some more subscriptions. Then you have people that fall off that go, Hey, I didn't sign up for this for an extra year. I just wanted one year type thing. It's like, All right, fine, whatever. But support... All I got to say to people out there is support these small magazines, print magazines if you can. There's your magazine, there's ours with Forl o, John Herrick's with Crawl. There's very few out there that have turned into the bigger publications. The Overlanding Journal and all those others, those things are huge and they're expensive and they've got a good following. The Overlanding is a huge part of the business nowadays.

[00:56:32.470] - Travis C. Bunch

That's the hot thing.

[00:56:33.650] - Big Rich Klein

So anybody out there listening to this, if you're not subscribing to print magazines, think about it, please do, because there's quite a few of us out there that are trying to make this keep it alive. People should be willing to spend that. With us, it's $24 a year. I mean, come on, for six issues.

[00:56:59.120] - Travis C. Bunch

Right. Yeah, no, that's good stuff. And like I said, it's always going to be around. When the internet crashes for a minute, you can still go over there and pick that up and be entertained for the evening. Or now it's just like you have to tittle your thumbs. The internet goes out.

[00:57:16.930] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly. Nobody knows what to do in the bathroom anymore.

[00:57:21.120] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, exactly right. That's why I made my issues are so small. That way, they fit good on the back of a toilet tank or in somebody's ammo can in their Jeep. You can take them anywhere. Put them in your lunchbox. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:57:36.530] - Big Rich Klein

Let's talk a little bit about the Go Devil Run and some of the runs you guys do. I know Jackman does the vintage Jeep rallies up in Idaho, I think it is. Isn't that.

[00:57:50.480] - Travis C. Bunch

What he calls it? Yeah. He does the Idaho vintage Jeep rally, which he started doing it about the same time as the Go Devil Run. He's like, There's no way ther's not going to be any rules. This is cutting out everybody. He wants everybody to come and have fun, but just be vintage enough to where it's just not all flat fenders for his run. You'll see full size Cherokee two doors. You'll see CJ 5s and 7s will come along and Commandos and all that stuff. He's got no rules, so anybody can come. It's really fun. Go Devil Run, that's its own separate thing. People say...

[00:58:32.190] - Big Rich Klein

The purists.

[00:58:33.650] - Travis C. Bunch

It's not even really a regular trail run, like a trail hero or something like that. It's more of a reenactment of what the people do with the World War II stuff. Get dressed up in your period correct costumes and go out and have all your period correct camping gear and recreate these things that are being lost and forgotten.

[00:58:56.730] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, we did an article on one of ouple of years ago on one of the Go Devil runs, and it was actually done by Ryan Miller. And all the photos are in black and white.

[00:59:09.450] - Travis C. Bunch

It's the way it should be. Absolutely. And they look great. I think I was the first one. So a lot of people didn't have their full costume and the Jeeps weren't exactly perfect. Mine definitely wasn't. But I tried to hide the modern mods and stuff as good as I could to where people almost couldn't recognize my Jeep. They could not believe that it transformed into a big tire trail crawling into a stalker that looked like it was from the 1950s. So it's a lot of fun to be able to do that and bring back the that's another section of automotive history that's not really talked about or covered. It was what everybody did after the war with these surplus Jeeps. What they do, they painted them funky colors and got out and started exploring around and having fun with them. It's a different freedom that back then that was harder to find. But the deep let you get out in the backcountry.

[01:00:12.940] - Big Rich Klein

They created an industry They didn't know it at the time.

[01:00:17.940] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, that's where anything nowadays that's offroad, cheap, or whatever, that all stems from those days and those guys. A lot of them were connected it. You'll see them in these old vintage pictures. It's like the... I forget the guy that started the Hot Rod magazine or something, or NHRA or something like that. He was in the war putting a V8 in his flat vendor MB hot rodding around. That right there is the first step into the offroad industry.

[01:00:52.080] - Big Rich Klein

Correct. Now it's amazing because with the evolution of Jeeps, it used to be when you were going to upgrade your suspension, you just added more Rancho shocks.

[01:01:05.720] - Travis C. Bunch

Right. Absolutely. Or some Ag tires that would float better on the sand and whatnot. Yeah, we ran across... There was a Life magazine article, and it was... What's funny is there was a trail ride that they did to promote a paved route to Annesa Brigo and somewhere else. And nowadays, we'll do that trail ride to try and keep a trail unpaved. But that's how they all got together. And this Life magazine collection of pictures were just everybody in these old GPS and MBs and command cars and all these army surplus rigs, brand new CJ2As, and they're just cruising across the desert looking like they're having a great time. So me and Ian were talking one night and he's like, I'm thinking about doing a trail ride down here in Arizona. It's like in five minutes only. I'm like, That'd be awesome. How about if we make everybody have old camping gear and all the old clothes and stuff that they wore back then and try to make it look exactly like these pictures we ran across. And it just took off from there.

[01:02:21.560] - Big Rich Klein

That's cool. I didn't ask Ian this because when I interviewed him, but the Gold Devil runs it. Is he only going to do those in Arizona or is he going to expand those to other locations? Do you know?

[01:02:38.840] - Travis C. Bunch

I think the original Go Devil run that he puts on is probably always going to be in the Arizona area. There's so much to explore over there that's flat fender friendly. You see a lot of the coverage of 4WD stuff down there, and it's just extreme rock crawling crazy. But there's so much other stuff that's just historic roads and towns and ghost towns that are perfect for tooling around in a flat fender all day long.

[01:03:07.420] - Big Rich Klein

Right. No, I agree totally because I've done a lot of roads down there, but either in my XJ or in the Raptor, like the Arizona Peace Trail and all the offshoots, so many of the offshoots out there on that. There's some pretty cool epic stuff out there.

[01:03:29.540] - Travis C. Bunch

Well, really is.

[01:03:32.420] - Big Rich Klein

I want to say thank you so much for coming on and spending some time and making yourself available. I know you had to come into town to get cell service, and I appreciate you making that effort so that we could talk and chat. And I want to make sure that everybody checks out Flat Fendering Aficionado. You got a Facebook page. You can go to flatfendering. Com and stay abreast on it. If you're into flat fenders at all or the history, start buying the books and supporting print, please. Digital is great, but it's nothing like what you can touch. It's always there for you. Always good as a reference material. Travis, thank you so much. Next time I'm out in Moab, we're going to have to get together.

[01:04:34.210] - Travis C. Bunch

Absolutely. Yeah, you know where I'll be parked at too. It'll be right there at the La Salle Junction at Mike Nappe's campground.

[01:04:42.840] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for coming on and spending some time.

[01:04:48.650] - Travis C. Bunch

Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate it. Thank you very much for the opportunity.

[01:04:52.480] - Big Rich Klein

All right. Thank you. Bye.

[01:04:54.520] - Travis C. Bunch

Thanks.

[01:04:56.220] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you would think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the Gusto you can. Thank you.