Justin Hall began as a rockcrawling and racing competitior. Moving from a Suzuki Samurai to an Unlimited car, then jumping over to the 4500 class, Justin grew up in rock sports. If you’re looking to do the same, listen in for some great advice. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
4:42 – I watched it go from small town to big town with a ridiculous amount of people
8:07 – every break I got, winter, spring, summer, my dad had me work at his company, and I got all the crap jobs, but it taught me a trade
12:42 – my parents knew I’d get myself in trouble with anything more than a 4-cylinder, we settled on a 1988 and and-a-half Suzuki Samurai
18:33 – we picked up a Campbell car and got it put back together, and that car was on the podium every event
23:07 – there are a couple of climbs at Oroville that I was the only person to do unassisted
26:21 – My all-time goal was to beat Tracy
38:13 – It was the biggest waste of money to go 10 miles, but it was the most fun 10 miles I’ve ever had
44:26 – when you’re racing at 100% against somebody, knowing that they’re going to hold their line, it makes it so much more fun
50:29 – at a certain point, you try not to drive with your wallet on the dash
Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
Justin Hall began as a rockcrawling and racing competitior. Moving from a Suzuki Samurai to an Unlimited car, then jumping over to the 4500 class, Justin grew up in rock sports. If you’re looking to do the same, listen in for some great advice. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
4:42 – I watched it go from small town to big town with a ridiculous amount of people
8:07 – every break I got, winter, spring, summer, my dad had me work at his company, and I got all the crap jobs, but it taught me a trade
12:42 – my parents knew I’d get myself in trouble with anything more than a 4-cylinder, we settled on a 1988 and and-a-half Suzuki Samurai
18:33 – we picked up a Campbell car and got it put back together, and that car was on the podium every event
23:07 – there are a couple of climbs at Oroville that I was the only person to do unassisted
26:21 – My all-time goal was to beat Tracy
38:13 – It was the biggest waste of money to go 10 miles, but it was the most fun 10 miles I’ve ever had
44:26 – when you’re racing at 100% against somebody, knowing that they’re going to hold their line, it makes it so much more fun
50:29 – at a certain point, you try not to drive with your wallet on the dash
Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
[00:00:01.080] -
Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.
[00:00:45.280] -
Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two, Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread victoriously.
[00:01:13.030] -
Have you seen 4Low magazine yet? 4Low magazine is a high-quality, well-written, four-wheel drive-focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4LOW is the magazine for you. 4Low cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4Lowmagazine.com to order your subscription today.
[00:01:39.740] - Big Rich Klein
On this episode of Conversations with Big Rich, I'll be talking with a rock Crawler that started at a pretty young age and started in the mod stock class. He moved up into unlimited and had success in both classes. He now races in the Norcal Rock Racing Series and the KOH events. And his name is Justin Hall. Hey, Justin. Good to have you on here.
[00:02:02.120] - Justin Hall
How's it going, Big?
[00:02:03.320] - Big Rich Klein
Going good. We haven't talked in a while.
[00:02:05.990] - Justin Hall
No, it's been a hot minute, I think. I think I randomly saw you at, I think Hammers. It was we briefly chatted and we talked here and there on Facebook, but that's about it.
[00:02:16.730] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. And that's been quite a while. I try to avoid... To be honest, I try to avoid KOH anymore. It's too much of a zoo for this old man.
[00:02:24.750] - Justin Hall
I was just saying it's a lot going on if you're just out there hanging out and spectating. When you're racing, you get out the zoo-ness of it, and you're just focused on racing. So I definitely get that.
[00:02:35.290] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, exactly. When we were a vendor and doing the Dirt Riot races, it made sense. And then we went down a couple of times to cover it with the magazine and realized that it was easier to have photographers and writers down there than it was for us to do it. And so we save our lungs and stay home and watch the live feed.
[00:02:57.210] - Justin Hall
Yeah. Honestly, for spectators, I think the live feed is honestly a better thing to watch than sit there and go to Chocolate Thunder and watch one trail. Live feed, you see the whole entire race.
[00:03:07.530] - Big Rich Klein
What would be good, I would imagine, if I was to do it again, would be to take my Starlink, sit down there at one of the trails that I wanted to watch that you can get access to, and then watch live and watch it on the live feed.
[00:03:27.110] - Justin Hall
Yeah, definitely. That definitely wouldn't be a bad option to do. Luckily, they've been doing a lot more with the Jumbotrons and putting those all over the place, so it helps out being able to watch the whole race. But yeah, I like your idea with the Starlink, though.
[00:03:39.170] - Big Rich Klein
When I worked KOH with Dave, I was in charge of Chocolate Thunder. So we always had the Jumbotron there, and then we had the one down in camp. So they positioned the Jumbotron so I could sit there on my rock making sure all my recovery crew was doing what needed to be done and dealing with BLM and all the media people, and be able to watch the whole thing from their live feed. But the live feed is so much better nowadays because of Starlink, and everybody running the cameras in car. It's just phenomenal.
[00:04:16.750] - Justin Hall
Oh, yeah, most definitely.
[00:04:18.750] - Big Rich Klein
So let's get started. And let's start at the very, very beginning. Where were you born and raised?
[00:04:26.010] - Justin Hall
I was born and raised in Antioch, California. Well, It's a small town in the East Bay.
[00:04:32.140] - Big Rich Klein
Antioch. Yeah, that's like industrial town USA.
[00:04:36.250] - Justin Hall
Right. Right along the Delta there between Pittsburgh and Oakley and Brentwood area.
[00:04:42.380] - Big Rich Klein
So when the winds were blowing right, you get all the burn off from Pittsburgh and all the- Yeah, all the refinery. Yeah, all the refinery.
[00:04:50.270] - Justin Hall
Yeah. We'd get all that, and then you get all the smell of the delta. And it was an interesting little town. It was a cool spot to grow up in, but definitely it's changed. And for myself, I'm thankful I got out of there. Because it was pretty rural. Yeah, it was super rural. I used to ride dirt bikes when I was a little kid, where I went to high school at, before the high school was built. They used to ride dirt bikes there. I lived there for 27 years, and I watched it go from small town to big town with a ridiculous amount of people. And it got crazy there. Right.
[00:05:33.410] - Big Rich Klein
So besides dirt bike riding, what things did you do as a kid?
[00:05:40.890] - Justin Hall
So I grew up, like I said, riding dirt bikes. My dad had me ride when I was three and a half, four years old. I raced for a while. I played all the different sports. Never really liked them, but I did it. It was what my family wanted me to do. So we'd try the sports thing, and we would ride dirt bikes on the side. We'd go camping. Always we're off doing something. We never had a lot of money, but the money we did have, we went and enjoyed it and did a lot of family events. So One of the biggest memories I had were going camping with my family, just right down the road, just camping a little campground. It wasn't anything special. It wasn't like going to Rubicon and camping for a week straight or being in a desert camping. It was just a little like, hole in the wall campground. That's just where we went to all the time.
[00:06:32.560] - Big Rich Klein
That's good. And what was school like for you?
[00:06:37.700] - Justin Hall
Ah, shoot. Growing up, I don't really remember a whole lot of elementary school. That was a weird time in my life, my family, my dad was our sole moneymaker, and he got super sick and ended up... We went bankrupt, the bank foreclosed on our house. We couch surfed and were homeless for a little while. And then family got back on their feet. And I think in elementary school era, I acted out a lot from what my parents had told me. And when you're a little kid, you don't know how to process stuff like that. But once we got back on our feet, had a pretty normal elementary or middle school era. It's always an odd time in a kid's life, going through all kinds of weird changes. And Yeah. Like I said, did sports, did band. I was a band nerd, total band nerd. Played the saxophone, did marching band in middle school, did the same thing in high school, played a couple of sports in high school. Nothing crazy. I ran cross country, played tennis, did one year of football. But yeah, primarily it was marching band and jazz band and stuff like that throughout high school.
[00:07:56.780] - Big Rich Klein
And what student were you? Were you a Were you a nerd student or were you, like you said, a nerd, or were you always looking out the window wanting to get outside?
[00:08:07.010] - Justin Hall
I was pretty much one of those kids that always looked out the window that wanted outside. I never got bad grades, but I did just enough to make my parents happy, they were like, oh, you need a 3.0 GPA to be able to do that extra curricular activities that we did. And I was like, okay, cool. I'll get a 3.0. I'm going to get a 3.1, 3.2 GPA, but never really pushed myself in that aspect. I know through high school, I was always in advanced classes, just for some reason, when it comes to math and chemistry and physics, stuff like that. That's what I really like. So I was semi-heavy in all that, but I would still do just enough. I never really did homework, but I would do really well on tests. So that's how I averaged out my grade in the classes. And then I vividly remember, even during winter break, spring break, summer breaks, my dad, when I was 15, 16 years old, he would have me work at the company he used to work for. He was a superintendent for an underground pipeline company, and he had me working as a laborer, and I got treated worse than his worst employees.
[00:09:23.580] - Justin Hall
I got all the crap jobs, but it taught me a trade, which I was super thankful for. That trade is where I'm at now in life. I work as a construction inspector for the city of San Jose Public Works and doing all the... Like inspecting all the work that I used to do. Like I said, thankful that my dad gave me that opportunity to learn that. And yeah, it was a definitely good learning experience. And I never got normal summers or, like I said, spring break or winter break because I was always working. I never got to hang out or have friends and do things that normal kids got to do because I was busting my ass working. Right.
[00:10:04.520] - Big Rich Klein
That teaches you a good work ethic, though.
[00:10:07.900] - Justin Hall
It does. It's a good and bad thing because now I'm 36 years old. I'm not 36, I'm 35. I'm just trying to give myself an extra year there.
[00:10:17.340] - Big Rich Klein
Don't do that. Trust me. Because I just turned 66 and I'm trying to convince myself I'm 56.
[00:10:25.670] - Justin Hall
I thought once you hit 50, you're supposed to start counting backwards big.
[00:10:28.710] - Big Rich Klein
I wish.
[00:10:29.740] - Justin Hall
But at 35, all I do is, all I know how to do is work. I don't really know how to do anything else. If I have a free time, I'm itching to go do work on something because I just I don't know how to relax.
[00:10:45.480] - Big Rich Klein
Well, couch surfing is not relaxing. So no. Being away from the nine to five and doing any other work. I mean, if you're working on your race car or You're doing something around the house, that is, don't consider that work. Consider that being away and relaxating, because you're not relaxing, I should say. Relaxating, what is that? Making shit up now.
[00:11:16.820] - Justin Hall
Yeah, that's okay. I know what you're getting at.
[00:11:20.130] - Big Rich Klein
Anyway, enjoy those times away from the 9:00 to 5:00 because it makes the 9:00 to 5:00 more tolerable.
[00:11:29.960] - Justin Hall
That is true. I have the 9:00 to 5:00 job. It's technically 7:00 to 3:30 job. I have a one and a half year old son now, so I enjoy a lot of time spending with him. I'm super anxious for him to be old enough to come work with me in my shop and just hang out and be destructive and do the normal boy things to do in shops when you give him hammers and tools and stuff. I'm super looking forward to that.
[00:11:58.280] - Big Rich Klein
Cool. Excellent. So let's talk about how you transitioned. When did you get involved with off-road?
[00:12:08.390] - Justin Hall
Shit, I think I was 14. My dad and I were at Hollister Hills riding dirt bikes. And he was on the track or whatever, and he did his downhill double, landed on the front tire. And if you know Hollister back in the day when you do this downhill double on like a little practice track, it was an immediate hard left-hand turn. He landed on the front tire and tried to go to swing that left hand turn, shoved the handlebar into his rib and cracked two ribs. And he pretty much was like, yeah, we're done with riding dirt bikes now.
[00:12:40.550] - Big Rich Klein
Right. With age comes cage.
[00:12:42.370] - Justin Hall
Exactly. And Yeah, that was about the same time I was working summer, spring break. So he made a deal, said, let's go halves on a off-road rig and we'll build it as a father-son project. So we were looking at early Broncos stuff like that. But my parents knew that I'd get myself in trouble with anything more than a four-cylinder. I'd get into trouble with speed and stuff like that. So what did we settle on? A 1988 and a half Suzuki Samurai, which comes from the factory with a 1.3 liter, it's 52 horsepower on a good day.
[00:13:21.460] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, burning rubber everywhere.
[00:13:24.060] - Justin Hall
Yeah, exactly. So that's what we settled on. And we slowly built it into... Did a I think back in the day, it was a Calmini, three-inch spring under kit on it, some 32s. And we went out to Carnegie and was messing around the rock piles and stuff like that. And then we went to Rubicon once for TrailTough when Brent Bradshaw used to own the company. He used to do a big Suzuki Samara run to the Rubicon in late June, early July. And we went there for the first time and broke absolutely everything. Right off the get-go, we broke the front break lines and had to pitch them off and had pretty much no break. So we were using E-break the whole time to slow ourselves down. And we saw the suspension kits that he designed, and we're like, Oh, what we have sucks. So then we did his whole YJ spring conversion for the Samurai. And then I started competing with that thing at Cal Rocks back in the day. And so it was Calrox Rocks when I think Kurtiss Harriman owned it. I think that was a transition period between when you guys, you and Little had the name, and like, Cal Rocks was using it, or Kurtiss was using the name.
[00:14:41.960] - Justin Hall
And I was doing that. Then the whole Amateur Series at Oroville. And I just kept, we'd go like, probably every month they would have an event, and we just would beat the crap out of my rig that was supposed to be my driving to high school rig, right? Right. So then, yeah, we're like, okay, we need to do something different. And we had good ties with Trail Tough, and they just started making a strictly rock-crawler, coil-spring suspension kit for Samurais. And we're like, oh, we'll get one of those. So we did that, and we ran the Cal Rock series in a Pro-Mod class. And I think it was like 2008, I think, is When we slapped 35s on it and ran the first We Rock event for us at Donner, and we showed up there and ran, I think, I don't even remember where we placed us so long ago, but we were hooked at that. And then we completely revamped it to revamp the rig to fit into stock model. We put a full body on it. It was like a stretched Samurai body, like the long wheelbase Samurai bodies. We put one of those on it.
[00:16:04.870] - Justin Hall
And then, yeah, we ran the whole series in 2009. And we won the West Coast series and then made the trip all the way back to, what was it, Hannibal, Missouri, I think, is where you guys had the All-Stock Nationals.
[00:16:17.310] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, Hannibal.
[00:16:18.840] - Justin Hall
Yeah. And we were doing really good at that event. And then just being a rookie, making a mistake, I ended up rolling the car on the, I think, the last course on Saturday, and then I just played catch up all day Sunday. And I think we finished like fifth or sixth, something like that. But yeah, that's the start into it, and then it snowballed.
[00:16:41.310] - Big Rich Klein
Right. That car was pretty controversial.
[00:16:44.330] - Justin Hall
Yeah That car had some interesting gray areas that we exploited a little bit.
[00:16:51.540] - Big Rich Klein
It was funny.
[00:16:52.650] - Justin Hall
It was the way the body was stretched and how we stretched the wheelbase was the controversial thing.
[00:16:58.270] - Big Rich Klein
Yes. Yeah. I grandfathered it in for all stock nationals for that year. Yes.
[00:17:04.390] - Justin Hall
Yeah, for that year of 2009. And you're like, yeah, cool. You need to go someplace else.
[00:17:09.650] - Big Rich Klein
It had everybody on the East Coast so twisted up.
[00:17:14.090] - Justin Hall
Yeah. And I I don't understand that either, because it was a Samurai with a 16 valve sidekick motor, a Samurai transfer case, and Toyota axles on captured coils. And everybody else had all air shocks and V8s and day in the '60s or at that nine inches. And we're like, we're just a little Samurai on Toyota axles. I don't know what the problem is, but it was no big deal. We got through it and, man, shoot. Yeah, we ended up running that car in promod class and really realized that it was not capable enough to run that. We got through the courses, but we broke a lot of parts. It just wasn't... That's not what that rig was meant for. So we ended up on the hunt for an unlimited class buggy, and somehow we got hooked up with Mike Popola. I don't know. You probably remember that name. I remember Mike very well. We got hooked up with him, and he had a Campbell enterprise single-seat car. We ended up picking that thing up. My dad, at the time, he borrowed against his retirement to buy it. Then I was making the payments back to my parents, repaying back his retirement, essentially.
[00:18:33.200] - Justin Hall
I think it was like 500 bucks a month or something like that. And I was making that payment back to my parents. And yeah, we put that thing back together. We got it. It had two blown up disk. The motor was shot in it, had four flat tires in it, but the rest of the bones are really good on it. So rebuilt the disk, put new tires on it, just grabbed the stock 2.0 Eler Ecotec, and slap a turbo and bigger injectors at it, just drop the boost way down. And then we went out, and I think we won our very first event in it. It was a Calrox event at Donner. And Yeah, we won our first event and then just picked at it from there. I think we were in that car for four years. And after the first year, I don't think there was an event that car wasn't on the podium. That was a really successful car. Right. We won two national championships in that car, too, through We Rock. If you want to get technical, we tied a national championship on one year.
[00:19:40.210] - Big Rich Klein
Do you really want me to go there?
[00:19:44.450] - Justin Hall
We'll leave it as it was two national championships. One and a half. Yeah, one and a half. Yeah. We shared it. It was Rick Dermo.
[00:19:54.930] - Big Rich Klein
Rick Dermo, yes. Yeah.
[00:19:56.880] - Justin Hall
He was a cool cat, too. He had another another Campbell car. And yeah, it was two Campbell cars that tied that year. That was an interesting situation, too. We can leave it at that.
[00:20:08.720] - Big Rich Klein
Everybody that was there knows about it and knows both of our feelings. Oh, yeah.
[00:20:14.840] - Justin Hall
I think it still gets talked about. There's still means to pop up about it.
[00:20:19.270] - Big Rich Klein
It does. Like, how can you have a tie? Yeah.
[00:20:24.230] - Justin Hall
It is what it is. It is.
[00:20:26.460] - Big Rich Klein
It is.
[00:20:28.160] - Justin Hall
Situations make the Sport and rulebooks get better and sports grow because of situations like that. And yeah, look at it on the positive side. Right. Yeah. Oh, man. The rock crawling days were a lot of fun. I went back. I built a single seat rear steer buggy for a good buddy of mine, and he wanted me to drive it. I went back to Cedar City, I think it was three years ago, maybe four years ago. And I showed up out there and I was like, I have no idea who any of these people are. It's a whole different crowd of people since I was there.
[00:21:07.650] - Big Rich Klein
Jessie pretty much, that was it.
[00:21:10.540] - Justin Hall
Yeah, I think it was Jessie, maybe one other person that I knew. And yeah, it was just myself and Mike Burard was fighting for me. And we just were like, we don't know anybody. Cool. We're just going to go do our thing. It was fun. We had a lot of fun on that. And I thought about getting back into rock crawling in some aspects for competing or coming out to events, stuff like that, because it was always a good time. I had a lot of fun. It was a good camaraderie. I don't know. It's hard to let go of where you got your start at in the off-road world, you know Right.
[00:21:46.070] - Big Rich Klein
Well, it's different. It's a lot different than the racing. Oh, yeah. Unless it's short course racing, say, at Prairie City, where everybody's in the pits together. You have heat races, so you have a lot of downtime in between. And as long as you're not wrenching the whole time, trying to fix your junk, you have time to maybe to hang out and stuff.
[00:22:11.870] - Justin Hall
Yeah, you have time to hang out, go talk and like, bullshit with other people. And yeah, that was what was cool about We Rock, because you'd run your course, and then you could get, guess what? You got to go watch your buddies run the same exact course. Or you had time to go watch two other courses from different classes. And it was just cool to go see all that and be standing right next to your biggest competition. Like, oh, hey, yeah, I did this. What would you do? And you'd have a conversation. Like, oh, yeah, no, we definitely... I should have done that. Or, yeah, you should have done this. And Yeah, it was a way different vibe than the racing side of the thing.
[00:22:48.770] - Big Rich Klein
Right, definitely. Yeah. So what would you say was your favorite rock crawling place? What What location did you have either the most success at, success at, or the most fun at?
[00:23:07.910] - Justin Hall
So honestly, I think my favorite place was Oroville, the place right along the Feather River there, the whole manmade rock section there. And with the big Terminator climb and all that stuff. That was one of the places that I was super successful at. There's a couple of climbs there that I think I was the only person to do unassisted. I know the Terminator, I could one shot that whenever I wanted to at a certain point. I love that place. I like the fact that you could... I was always a fan of manmade courses or places like Cedar City, where you can set cones, and then they don't change. If you remember when you go to Goldendale, you set a cone, and someone drives through it, and the boulder moves 20 yards away, and it completely changed the whole entire course, and probably made it easier for the next person.
[00:24:01.270] - Big Rich Klein
A garage-size rock would move.
[00:24:06.400] - Justin Hall
Yeah. And it would drastically change the whole course. You're like, Oh, well, that makes it 10 times easier for everybody else. I have to suffer through it, at least with the big granite places like Cedar City or the manmade courses like Orville, or shoot, even Rina Rocks back in the day. They were great because it was the same for everybody.
[00:24:28.410] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, nothing moved, right?
[00:24:30.130] - Justin Hall
Yeah, that's what I liked.
[00:24:32.220] - Big Rich Klein
That was always a challenge of setting courses was to try to put the cones where they wouldn't change. And it was... As people would dig on them and torque on them. I mean, there was rocks that moved up in Goldendale that there was, I swore, that would never move. And after four or five years, all of a sudden, it would fracture.
[00:24:56.000] - Justin Hall
They're in a completely different place.
[00:24:57.200] - Big Rich Klein
Or all of a sudden, somebody had torqued just right on it and it would fall over and it's like, all right, that's interesting now. It was either way. It could make it impossible or it could make it super easy.
[00:25:10.690] - Justin Hall
Yeah. That place was such an interesting event, though, because of all the volcanic rock and the rocks were just heavier out there. I think they were just super dense. It was weird. Even my dad would spot for me. He would struggle with rocks that I've watched him pick up massive rocks before, and then he'd struggle with the rock half the size, but it was just three times as dense as all the other ones. It was such an interesting place. And then you'd end up with that powdery dirt that you'd think it would be great. You step in it and your leg disappears up to your knees. Oh, yeah.
[00:25:42.200] - Big Rich Klein
I fell one time up there picking up cones. Josh and I were cleaning up the courses, and I slipped one time and fell. And literally, when the dust settled, you couldn't see me. I mean, I was just being gulfed.
[00:25:56.870] - Justin Hall
It was absolutely insane. Yeah, That's absolutely wild that place. Are you guys still... Is We Rock still doing events up there?
[00:26:04.200] - Big Rich Klein
Yep, sure are.
[00:26:05.400] - Justin Hall
Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah.
[00:26:08.220] - Big Rich Klein
So then who would you say was the person that you wanted to beat the most?
[00:26:21.030] - Justin Hall
So when I first got into rock crawling, I used to... Because no one taught me how to do any of like driving or anything. I had to figure it myself. And I would watch Tracy Jordan, all the stuff that Tom from Spider Tracks, all the videos he'd put on YouTube. I'd watch Tracy Jordan's videos and go back and replay him over and over again and figure out what he did in situations. And all I wanted to do was beat Tracy Jordan. That was my all-time goal was to beat Tracy. And I think I only got to compete against him once. And I was in- Congress. Yeah, in Congress, Arizona. And he ended up running sportsmen, but I think he still ran the same courses. And he royally kicked our ass just running sportsmen. And then we did that whole-Challenge thing. Yeah, the challenge afterwards.
[00:27:13.830] - Big Rich Klein
He just egged you on for that. And I kept thinking, Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. I didn't want to do it because I just didn't think it was going to end well. And yeah.
[00:27:25.660] - Justin Hall
Yeah, that was probably the role I took on that was probably That was probably the hardest hit I've taken in a long time in a rock Crawler. That was a gnarly roll that I did. It was like a 10-foot freefall onto the passenger A-pillar of that single- seat car.
[00:27:41.700] - Big Rich Klein
And you were on the throttle when you left the ground.
[00:27:45.440] - Justin Hall
Yeah, because I was trying to drive out of it. And the way it hit, it landed back on the tires. I think we finished the course. But I think Tracy still beat us, I think, by three points on that course. Right. And yeah, ever since then, I haven't really got to ever run them again. But he was always the one person I wanted to beat just because I looked up to him so much and watched all his videos. And I literally could pick apart and watch. I could see the car, how the car would pick up in different areas or he would load the car differently. I got to the point of watching that much detail and figuring out how he did it so I could go out and do the same thing in the same situation. Yeah, he did Tracy 100 % influenced me heavily in my rock crawling career.
[00:28:35.590] - Big Rich Klein
I'd still consider him the goat.
[00:28:37.700] - Justin Hall
I definitely don't disagree. I've watched some of the events where he comes out just out of nowhere when you guys do events in Arizona, just literally whops everybody's ass and it just disappears until next year. Right. Yeah. He'll be dead silent, show up, and then whip everybody's ass and then leave. I think, shoot, even Bruce Zeller still does the same thing, too, in one of the original Scrappers. He would show up and just whip everybody's butt in Arizona and then leave. It was him and Tracy were the two that would use to hand everybody their asses.
[00:29:10.540] - Big Rich Klein
Bz doesn't do it anymore. Tracy did it this year in Congress, not Congress, in Baghdad, but he ran Sportsman.
[00:29:17.590] - Justin Hall
Yeah, in Baghdad.
[00:29:19.460] - Big Rich Klein
And they came out with the old- It was the OG car. The OG matrix.
[00:29:25.860] - Justin Hall
The OG matrix.
[00:29:26.790] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, that was built to compete in '04, '05. And he got that back, went through it, cleaned it all up, fixed some things that were wrong with it from previous owners, and then showed up. And he ran Sportsman A, but as an exhibition, and just laid the smack down on everybody, him and Jason. But they had a great time. And he had talked about getting his daughter into the driver's seat and going for it. So It'll be interesting to see if he does that or not.
[00:30:03.230] - Justin Hall
Yeah, that was a dangerous combination, Tracy and his brother. Those dudes were something else, how they worked so well together.
[00:30:11.900] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, Bubba, as Tracy calls Jason, the guy could pick up just the most massive rocks.
[00:30:20.620] - Justin Hall
Yeah, absolutely insane. I watched some of the videos of Jason spotting Tracy and how he would stack rocks around a cone. So when he had hit the rock, he would roll the tire away from the cone. And it was just absolutely mind boggling at that time. I never saw anyone do something like that. It was so cool to watch.
[00:30:43.740] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, it's just manipulating that car.
[00:30:45.930] - Justin Hall
Yeah, we learned how to do it. My dad figured it out. We would talk and look at courses. And my dad's biggest thing was using logs. He liked logs in pieces of wood because it was a lot lighter to move around and you could use in multiple areas. Right. Yeah.
[00:31:04.190] - Big Rich Klein
I remember up at Donner, when it was... The rule was at the time, you could only use what was on the course. And when I designed those courses, I know what was on those courses. So the next day, all of a sudden, there's a log on the course that you guys are using. And I'm like, somebody comes over and goes, Hey, that... And I'm like, That log was not there. That was pre-stacked. Because I know. I purposely would move stuff off of the courses so they couldn't be used. Because I saw a little Rich do it one time at a U-Rock event. There was a banner row where the boundary was actually banners hanging down. He had pre-stacked rocks on one side of the banner, and he was spotting for Dave Schneider. And he had stacked these rocks right on the other side of the banner. And just before they started, he picked up that banner and moved it, the bottom of it, so that those rocks were inside the course.
[00:32:08.200] - Justin Hall
Yeah.
[00:32:09.110] - Big Rich Klein
Then he goes around, they start, and he runs over and grabs those rocks, and the judges are like, Where did those come from? But they were on the other side of the banner, and everybody was like, They were calling him a cheater, but you know what? That's-yeah.
[00:32:25.230] - Justin Hall
There's also, I think- That wasn't my event, so he didn't get in trouble. Right. There's also You had that rule of if you brought it in with you, you could use it, but you'd get a five or something point rule for using a tool or something like that. I know we did it, and a couple of other teams have done it before back then. We'd carry in a log, we'd find like that. This is our tool. We're going to use this. And that's how steep the competition got, though. Sure, you hit a cone, it's 10 points, but if you use a tool, you get eight points. So you're picking up two points out of the deal. And Back then, the events were so tight that, yeah, two points made her break it. And that was a matter of you finishing a course or not, too. It's wild. It was wild back then. This was also way before portals and 42s and back and rear steer was penalized and all that stuff, too. So, yeah.
[00:33:20.420] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I remember that when I dropped the rear steer penalty, and Tracy decided to come back out, and it was He won three of the four events plus nationals that year, and then he retired again. Yeah.
[00:33:39.660] - Justin Hall
That was in that single-seat buggy that Jason Pauley and him put together, wasn't it?
[00:33:46.740] - Big Rich Klein
I believe so, yes.
[00:33:47.670] - Justin Hall
Yeah, I remember that car.
[00:33:49.170] - Big Rich Klein
I remember that Cody Waggoner, when he came back out, he was given... I'm pretty I remember he was driving Jesse Haines car at the time, too. He was giving Jesse a hard time about, get ready to be beat, get ready to be beat. You're going to get beat. And Jesse's response to him was, Why? Is Tracy coming back out? Yeah.
[00:34:14.800] - Justin Hall
I remember that. I remember all the crap talking on Facebook and stuff like that. That was hilarious. It was pretty good.
[00:34:22.710] - Big Rich Klein
Not as good as the old pirate days, but Facebook- I don't think anything's going to top the old pirate days. No, I hope it comes back around.
[00:34:34.240] - Justin Hall
Yeah, I hope so, too. But it's hard. There's not a whole lot of need for our online forums anymore. It's all done on Facebook and the groups and all that stuff.
[00:34:44.360] - Big Rich Klein
The problem with Facebook, and groups even, is search.
[00:34:50.610] - Justin Hall
Yes.
[00:34:51.330] - Big Rich Klein
That is the hardest part. If you're looking for tech, it's very, very difficult. Yeah. I don't agree on that one. I think I think there can be some a platform out there that would marry the social aspects of Facebook and the bulletin board availability to search and to carry on a conversation where it's always there. You don't have to go. Because that's the thing is you get a conversation started, unless it's in a group, you can't But you can't go find it again.
[00:35:32.470] - Justin Hall
Yeah, it just disappears somewhere in Facebook land. It's just gone.
[00:35:38.210] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I've gone on there going, Okay, I know the yesterday, I saw this, and I searched that over and over and over again. And you never liked it. I've commented on it and everything else, and I can't find it.
[00:35:49.360] - Justin Hall
Yeah. It's the way the algorithm works. It just things disappear and just new stuff pops up. I could see, like you're saying there's a need for another platform in that sense.
[00:36:01.810] - Big Rich Klein
I think that stuff will come back around just like vinyl has with records and music. Yeah, that is true. Even like with the magazine, everybody went digital All the print magazines went away. But the print magazines with us, with Four Low, and then John Herrick with Crawl, are still out there, and we're growing. I think it's coming Those things will come back around.
[00:36:32.530] - Justin Hall
Yeah. It's like a fad in a sense. Everything makes its way back around. And everyone has different wants, and they realize, Oh, these ones weren't as good as the original ones, so let's go back to this. And then five years, 10 years down the road, it'll change back to where it went to. And it just cycles back and forth.
[00:36:51.370] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I agree. So what made you decide to get away from the rock crawling and go racing?
[00:37:01.610] - Justin Hall
So at the time, shoot, this was probably 10 years ago now, 10 or 11 years ago. I went out and I crew chief for a couple... Well, I started out as a pit crew at King of the Hammers. And then I did that for two years and then crew chiefed one year. And I was like, this is awesome. I need to be a part of this. And so I had some sponsors at the time that was really pushing me to get into racing. Like, oh, we need you to do this. I'm like, well, you guys need to help me out. I can't just build a car out of nothing. I'm like, 20 years old, 21 years old. That's not possible. So I ended up... Sponsors kicked down some stuff to help me out. And I got a car, a 4,500 class car built. I think it was the second or third year they had the 4,500 class. And I quickly realized that I could never do 4,400 class at time because I just didn't have the money or backing yet. So I built a 4500 car and then ran hammers. I made it 10 miles my first year, and I was like, I am hooked.
[00:38:13.130] - Justin Hall
It was the biggest waste of money to go 10 miles, but it was the most fun 10 miles I've ever had. At the time, my dad was riding a shotgun with me, and I'd never really gone fast at all in my life because I always I just had a Samara rock crawling. We just didn't go fast. And yeah, I finally had a V8. We were clipping across the desert, probably going way too fast. And I didn't have a bolt shouldered correctly because I didn't know what that was because in rock crawling world, you don't see the shock loads like you do in the desert and racing side of things. And I ended up breaking a bolt just because it wasn't shouldered right. And then all hell broke loose after that. And I was like, okay, yeah, cool. Now I got to go back and the car. And after I just spent a stupid amount of money on it, now I got to go spend even more money on it to get it back to driving again. And yeah, did that. It was hooked. And I think that year I went and ran the Norcal Rock Racing series in that car.
[00:39:13.360] - Justin Hall
And that's when I really fell in love with the going fast aspect of it. I realized short course is probably my favorite thing I've ever done in my life. It is by far the most adrenaline-pumping thing for me. I love being able to slide into corners, like door to door with people with a huge risk of rolling over or someone driving underneath you. I feel you really have to learn how to drive to be able to go short course racing. Desert racing has its own challenges, too, which I'm trying to get more into that now and develop that skill, because I have no idea how to read the desert. Absolutely no idea. I've been trying to figure it out, and this year at Hammers is probably my first year of actually starting to understand it because I was able to go a lot faster. I could see things better. Over the years, I've just been developing a skill that, like I said, no one's ever taught me how to do anything. I've just been figuring this out as I go. And yeah, I just was sitting, figuring it out. And the desert, I'm going to try to do Vegas, Torino this year because I think that's a great experience, too.
[00:40:24.220] - Justin Hall
And it's going to be the longest desert I've ever done besides Hammers, even though Hammers isn't a true desert desert race. But I've normally... My cars have only done short course races and a couple and some of the ultra four races, but I've never done a true 500-mile long desert race.
[00:40:44.030] - Big Rich Klein
You should cut your teeth on Vora races.
[00:40:47.320] - Justin Hall
Yeah, I thought about it. It just their schedule is... It's hard to schedule around the Norcout Rock Racing Series. Right.
[00:40:54.060] - Big Rich Klein
They're probably doing the same weekends or close to it.
[00:40:56.390] - Justin Hall
Yeah. They're either a week or two away from it. It's hard to turn a prep around that fast. That's one thing with the racing side of things, the prep work is probably three times as much as what it was back in rock crawling days. Rock Crawling Days. Rock Crawling Days, you would take your... You'd pull a car apart at the beginning of the season or at the end of the season, so it's ready to go in the beginning of the season, maybe pull this out of it once or twice throughout the year, and that was it. Race cars, thing gets torn down, put back together, torn down, put back together every single time. Yeah. Because you You're replacing parts for new parts, even though they're not even worn out, but you don't want to take a chance. It's a whole different mindset when it comes to prep stuff.
[00:41:39.650] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, because when you're going speed, and like you say, bolt breaks or high joint breaks. It's not just that that breaks.
[00:41:49.530] - Justin Hall
No. Everything else breaks, and then you normally go for a hell of a ride. Yes. Yeah. I can deal with parts breaking. They're going for a The ride part sucks because I had a really bad wreck. I was actually co-driving in a UTV, and it was my crew chief's UTV. We went out to Sturgis, and I was co-driving for him, trying to get a site look at the track before I went out there. So I knew what was going on and what the track layout was. And yeah, we did a gnarly front flip and barrel roll, and we covered some distance. And I was like, yeah, I'm too old to be taking hard hits like that. I need to get smarter about not rolling my car. Right?
[00:42:38.050] - Big Rich Klein
And that was an easy place to roll out there, too, at Sturgis. Yeah.
[00:42:42.900] - Justin Hall
Yeah. Sturgis was... I think you guys raced out there, didn't you, for that ride?
[00:42:46.060] - Big Rich Klein
We raced out there three times, I think.
[00:42:49.120] - Justin Hall
Yeah, that track was super easy to bike up and go for a ride. And yeah, we did it. And it didn't feel very good.
[00:42:59.400] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah So then with the racing, the short course, you've had some success out there. Who was it that... I know that there's one guy that I always saw you jawing with online and stuff, and it seemed like you guys were always battling it out. You want to talk about that?
[00:43:18.450] - Justin Hall
Yeah. So I think you're talking about Jimmy Jack. Yes. Yeah. Him and I have... He likes to call it frenemies. So we're friends, but enemies all at the same time. We started the Norcouse series together. I had my old hoopdy 4,500 car. He had his old hoopdie, like trail rig that he converted into a 4,500 car called Old Bessy. And him and I would battle it out all the time. It was him and I nonstop for years. And even to this day, when he comes out, it's always him and I battling it out. And he'll break apart. And after we get done racing, I'll go over helping him fix his car. And he does the same to me. And we're always really good friends outside of being on track. But when we're on track, it's a cutthroat between him and I. We have such a good time racing. He's on my list of... I have a few There's a few people on my list of people that I'll throw my car in the corner at speed with. And I 100 % full faith that guy will hold his line and never drive underneath me or do anything shady.
[00:44:26.460] - Justin Hall
Having that when you're trying to race at 110 % against somebody, knowing that they're going to hold their line and you're going to hold their line, it makes it so much more fun just because you can start doing... You can do the whole over-under passes, slide pass, box people out. You can do all kinds of things when you know someone's going to hold their line. It makes the racing aspect side of it fun when you can actually start dicing it up with each other.
[00:44:54.800] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, the Prairie City track has changed a lot over the years. Yeah, it really has. When I owned Vora and we did all the racing out there, at the top of that jump, what we call the stadium jump, which now isn't even in existence.
[00:45:10.950] - Justin Hall
Quick sidebar about that.
[00:45:13.030] - Big Rich Klein
That's because of you.
[00:45:14.650] - Justin Hall
Yeah. I had a tire fall off. I hit the jump, landed, and it broke all the studs on the right front tire. And the tire went flying, hit the burn, went up in the air, and hit, I think, two other parked cars or something like that. Yeah. And then that quickly got shut down. You guys can't have that big of a jump there anymore.
[00:45:34.590] - Big Rich Klein
That stadium jump was awesome because we had that hair pin right after it.
[00:45:40.250] - Justin Hall
Yeah, you were hitting it at like 60, 70 miles an hour, and you'd land, you'd have to check up hard to make that hair pin.
[00:45:46.400] - Big Rich Klein
Right. I can remember guys bringing out their Class 8 trucks, and the Leducs were showing up with their cars or their trucks, and just skying it off that jump, and then having to bury it, nose buried into that hair pin corner. And we always had carnage in that corner. It was especially when you had the open wheel cars, even the Class 9 buggies, which are doing 25 miles an hour, but everybody wanted the same real estate.
[00:46:19.330] - Justin Hall
Yeah, they all wanted the same spot, even though it's a 50, 60 foot wide corner. Everybody wanted the same 10 feet. Yes, exactly. Yeah. That still happens, even without that jump there. They still have a pretty good size turn there. And yeah, there's sometimes people just still want the same real estate and get tangled up with each other. It happens. That's any open wheel racing. You're always going to be fighting for real estate with people. There's just some people that you know that if you have the line, they're going to give it to you and then race you afterwards. They're not going to end your race, or they're not going to try to beat you by ending your race. Yeah.
[00:47:01.270] - Big Rich Klein
So what class are you racing in now?
[00:47:04.940] - Justin Hall
So I'm still in 4,500 class. This is actually my last year in 4,500 class, hopefully. I'm currently having Phil with Liberty Mountain FAB build me a rolling legend class car, a new 4,800 class car. And yeah, I'm going to be taking a bunch of parts off of my 4,500 car and throwing it in that car and hopefully come out swinging for 2025, starting at King of the Hammers. We're building a pretty bitching car. I think it's his first leading arm car. So it's going to be... It should be a monster of a car. I get enough time to get it dialed before hammers. My goal is to try to get it running and driving by Thanksgiving, so I could at least get a month on it before 100% prepping it for hammers. I just want to try to work out some of the new car blues on it. You've around long enough, you know how that goes. Oh, yeah. There's always new car blues when you have a brand new car. So I want to try to knock that out and not be trying to finish the car at the Lakebed and working all that stuff out there.
[00:48:13.380] - Justin Hall
That's not a fun time. I've done that way too many times now.
[00:48:17.220] - Big Rich Klein
I think the guy that has the most success with a brand new car right off the trailer is Joe Thompson.
[00:48:24.300] - Justin Hall
Yeah, I will have to agree with that. That guy, he The stuff he builds is artwork. It's absolutely insane. Absolutely insane, the stuff that guy puts together. For all the Gomez brothers, their cars, they're super successful right out of the gate with their new cars.
[00:48:44.000] - Big Rich Klein
And they're not easy on stuff.
[00:48:45.850] - Justin Hall
No. Those boys are probably the hardest on cars I've ever seen. Joe figured that out. It's funny. I had a conversation with Joe probably six years ago, and this was right about the time when I built my my 4500 car now because I built my car super lightweight. It's a fragile car, but if you drive it right, it doesn't break. I'm convinced there's two different types of drivers. There's guys that are finesse things, and then there's the bulldozers. And a bulldozer can't drive a finesse car. They'll destroy it in a heartbeat. And I had this conversation with Joe, and I asked him, Why do you the car is so robust? And he was like, The Gomez brothers, he goes, They will plow through anything. He goes, I need them to be able to plow through a telephone pole and keep going. Because if there's one in their way, they're going to hit it because that's just how they drive. And he's like, if I built you a car, he goes, I'd probably build you a car 1,500 pounds lighter because you can make a light car last. And it's hard to make a light car last.
[00:49:59.780] - Justin Hall
I I know Jessie did it for years in his Willies that he built. I think at the time it was an orange 4500 Willies buggy that I think he even ran it in Pro mod for a year in Wierock, too. Yeah. Jesse's one of those same guys. He's got the same driving style as I do of being able to finesse things and make a light car last in the racing aspect.
[00:50:26.240] - Big Rich Klein
I think that comes with the size of the checkbook.
[00:50:29.330] - Justin Hall
Yes, that is true. Yeah. At a certain point, you try not to drive with your wallet on the dash. There's some points in my racing career where I'm like, Yeah, I'm just going to do this, and I'm going to deal with the consequences later. Because I want to win, and I'm going to do whatever I got to do to win. And you have to be able to push that wallet aside. But there's sometimes you're just looking at it like, oh, that wallet's getting pretty thin up there. It probably should check up a little bit.
[00:50:58.860] - Big Rich Klein
Right.
[00:51:00.310] - Justin Hall
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:51:02.140] - Big Rich Klein
So let's talk about your family now. You're now married? Yeah.
[00:51:08.950] - Justin Hall
I got married last year in September.
[00:51:11.120] - Big Rich Klein
And you got a kid?
[00:51:13.400] - Justin Hall
Yep. One kid, one and done. Not doing any more. We're happy with one kid, and he's a year and a half old now. Okay. Running. I think, yeah, he's running like this one speed everywhere. A little terror. It's super fun. He's actually a really good kid. He doesn't cry. He doesn't get upset. Super mellow. He just loves being outside, and that's his thing. He just loves being outside. And luckily, we have four acres, four and a half acres where I live at now in Morgan Hill. And we have horses, sheep, chickens. Our neighbor raises cattle for four weeks. So he gets to grow up the ranch lifestyle, which is super exciting for him.
[00:51:58.970] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. So you really I've grown up.
[00:52:01.110] - Justin Hall
Yeah. You see me. I think I met you when I was 16 years old. Right. Yeah.
[00:52:08.380] - Big Rich Klein
I'd say like a little snot nose. Yeah.
[00:52:10.910] - Justin Hall
Yeah. You're not wrong with that statement. I will 100 % on that. Yeah. And yeah, a lot has changed in the last three years of my life. So it's been a good change for me.
[00:52:27.860] - Big Rich Klein
Good.
[00:52:28.680] - Justin Hall
Yeah.
[00:52:30.450] - Big Rich Klein
Well, what's on the horizon besides the new car?
[00:52:36.710] - Justin Hall
So the new car, obviously, we talked about that. I started a fabrication business about two years ago called Thirteen Fabrication. And I still have my day job. That's what I do after hours, like night and weekend. And primarily, I do custom fabrication, roll cages. I've done a couple of chassis, revamping cars, this basic minor fabrication stuff, do mechanic work out of it. I like working on cars and I like building cool stuff. And luckily, I've had some really great customers that's given me the opportunity. They're just like, hey, build it how you would want it. And that's probably the best customer to have, because it's hard to... You always try to make the customer happy, right? But when you have just an open end of like, hey, build something however you want, you're like, oh, I got to build the coolest thing ever and tailor it to this person, but it's still going to have all my flavor to it. Because when you're dealing with some customers, they want things to look a certain way. Like, okay, I could do that no problem. But when you get to have your own creative freedom, that's my favorite customers.
[00:53:56.110] - Justin Hall
Are these trail rigs? No, a couple of them. One was that unlimited class rock Crawler that I built, that single-seater. That guy, he gave me all the creative freedom I wanted. He said, listen, build this like it was your own because you're probably going to end up driving it. I just want to mess around on the weekend. I'm like, okay, this is fair. I like this. And then I've based my 4500 car. I have to the geometry pretty dialed in that car. I've had three other people me their cars and they're like, Hey, we need this fixed. So I cut cars off at the eight pillars and essentially graft my front end onto their cars. And with my geometry and stuff that fits better to their... Like tailored to fit their car, Obviously, because my car is built slightly different being a single seat with the motor offset, but I can get the steering, shock geometry, and link geometry similar to my car. And it's been super successful on the other two, three cars that I've put that And yeah, I've done a lot of interior roll cages for trail rigs, some extra cages. Shit, I got an '87 Buick Grand National in my shop right now.
[00:55:12.580] - Justin Hall
Was doing turbo swap on it, intercooler piping, exhaust work, full wiring harness in it. I'll do everything and anything. I like working on stuff. It helps fund the racing side of things.
[00:55:27.960] - Big Rich Klein
Those Buick Grand Nationals were probably one of my favorite cars.
[00:55:33.780] - Justin Hall
I've never worked on one. They are a royal pain to work on, but they're pretty rad. They're a rad car. I've never really looked into them much until I got this car and it started watching YouTube videos on them and get some history on them. They were a really bitching car back in their day when they came out. They were a wicked car. Yeah. Yeah. So besides that, the rest of us on the horizon is just being a dad, being a father, being a good husband, and living that aspect of life. I have no idea what that's going to entail in 5, 10 years from now, but I'm looking forward to the adventure that it comes with. I got to get my kid involved in the race. We had him at the Norcout Rock Race series last year, and he absolutely loved it. Everybody there loves the kid. He Jimmy Jack and Amy Jack. They're his grandparents, but not by blood, obviously. But they call themselves his grandparents and stuff like that. I'm super fortunate to be able to raise my kid with the whole four-wheel drive community, because everybody that I've met has been awesome.
[00:56:51.500] - Justin Hall
And I think it's definitely changed the way I look at things now being a dad. But I'm sure you've obviously experienced that, having a little rich as your kid. You look at life a little bit different. I can't wait to... I'm already searching for a little 170 Razr, so I could start geeking out on it and getting it ready for him to start racing. There you go. That's what I look at on the horizon for myself.
[00:57:21.080] - Big Rich Klein
Sweet.
[00:57:22.100] - Justin Hall
Yeah. A different mindset than what you would have thought of when you first met me when I was 16 years old.
[00:57:29.460] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I didn't think you were going to grow up or survive, to be honest.
[00:57:34.430] - Justin Hall
I don't know. Let's be honest. I don't know if I've 100% grown up yet, but- Well, none of us do. I'm at least making somewhat adult decisions now.
[00:57:43.160] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, that's good. We all have to make adult decisions. We don't all necessarily have to grow up.
[00:57:48.840] - Justin Hall
Yeah, exactly. I'm still a giant kid at heart and still love doing all the stupid things that as a 35-year-old, probably shouldn't be doing, but we're going to do it anyway. I'll probably do the same when I'm 50 years old.
[00:58:01.290] - Big Rich Klein
Do you know?
[00:58:01.900] - Justin Hall
Right.
[00:58:04.060] - Big Rich Klein
Just remember to treat your body well.
[00:58:06.590] - Justin Hall
The recovery time lately has been a lot harder on my body. I have a routine chiropractor that I go to probably once or twice a month now just from racing and beating the crap out of your body. When I was in my 20s, didn't have to deal with that.
[00:58:23.140] - Big Rich Klein
The last question I have for you is you've grown up with a That's a health issue, and that's Crohn's. Are you still suffering from that? I would imagine that's a lifelong thing.
[00:58:38.500] - Justin Hall
Yeah, I'm stuck with that for life. I still do infusions every six weeks to get I'm full of a med for three hours and do colonoscopes probably every year, every two years. I do all kinds of other tests because the med that I'm on, the long term side effect is some form of cancer. So they're always monitoring to make sure that doesn't happen. I got sick back in when I was 18 years old. I had seven inches of my intestine removed, almost died in the hospital from it. In 2009, was the first year of running We Rock, and that was also my first year back to starting to get healthy again. And yeah, I just... Like you mentioned, I've been dealing with that my whole life, went out to deal with it for the rest of my life, and Try not to let it slow me down. There's days where it kicks you in the butt and you get through those and just keep on with a positive attitude and just like, these are the cards that I'm dealt with. And you know what? We're going to make the most of it.
[00:59:44.420] - Big Rich Klein
And what would you say to some kid, say some 15-year-old kid walks up to you and says, Hey, I want to get into racing. What do I need to do?
[00:59:57.730] - Justin Hall
To run far away.
[00:59:59.710] - Big Rich Klein
Find another hobby.
[01:00:02.180] - Justin Hall
Yeah, find another hobby that doesn't consist of taking large sums of money and setting it on fire. No. I've had a lot of people ask me about this, and I tell them, Listen, start where you can afford and cut your teeth. And I said, Get the notches in your belt. Don't expect to go out and say, I'm building a new car, and no one's ever heard of you. And expect get title sponsors from people that are going to give you thousands of dollars. Like your best bet, you're probably only going to get 10 or 15 % off and be happy with that. Build the reputation, get a good name for yourself, win events, win races, show up and make the commitment. If you say you're going to be someplace to win your sponsors, make sure you show up. That's your job. If somebody is sponsoring you, your job isn't to be like, Oh, give me all this. It's a, How can I market them better? Why should they give me money or give me product instead of investing that money into something else? What investment can I give them that's better than them going someplace else?
[01:01:19.070] - Justin Hall
That's the biggest thing. Just be committed. Don't half-ask this. If you're in this, to be in it, this isn't a sport that you can have one foot in in and one foot out. You got to dive headfirst into it, even though it's probably a shallow dive. You got to jump into it and just go. No, I'm just going to try this out because you're trying it out. You're still spending $100,000 to build a race car. At a minimum nowadays. To build a rock Crawler. If you want to buy a car, like one of the Jesse Haynes cars for sale, you're still looking at a minimum like 65, $70,000. Sure, you can go out and play around in your Toyota or Suzuki. But if you want to be competitive and get into this serious, you just got to dive in and just stay committed. You're going to have rough days. You're going to have things break. It's going to be frustrating. We've all been there. We've all beat our head against the wall enough times that like, okay, let's just keep doing it and things will get better. And yeah, I know I started with nothing.
[01:02:25.150] - Justin Hall
My family supported it from the get go. I think I took over paying for everything when I was about 21, 22. But from 16 years old to then, my parents fronted doing everything, fronted all the money for events, for the fuel to get places, for an RV or a hotel or food or all that stuff. My parents did all that. I was super fortunate they were able to do that for me. But once I could, I took over and it's my life. It's a lifestyle. There's no, I'm to have another life outside of this. Like, yeah, no, you're off road racing, any off road, like rock crawling, competitive rock crawling, rock racing, ultra forward, desert racing. It's just a lifestyle. You know I understand, too, Big. There's no if, hands, or buts about it. You're either in it or you're not.
[01:03:19.630] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Absolutely. 100 %.
[01:03:21.840] - Justin Hall
Yeah. And I say it's tough. It's scary to jump into it. It's super scary. But once you're in it, it's You'll find that you have a lot of really, really good people that end up being your lifelong friends. And I have friends that are family now because of meeting them in off-road racing. If I wasn't in this, I would have never have met these people. And they have been such big influences in my life. And it's all from rock crawling to racing. It's all because of that. All my friends are because of off-roading. My My whole entire friend circle is 99 % off-road people.
[01:04:05.960] - Big Rich Klein
There's nothing wrong with that.
[01:04:07.520] - Justin Hall
No, not a damn thing wrong with it. I could see it being scary coming into it and not knowing anybody. But once you get in it, everyone's super friendly and happy. It's a good thing. It's a really good place to be. There's a lot of bad areas in life and bad groups of people to associate yourself with. The rock crawling, racing, off-road community isn't one of those people.
[01:04:34.490] - Big Rich Klein
Amen.
[01:04:35.590] - Justin Hall
Yeah.
[01:04:36.420] - Big Rich Klein
And with that, that's a great segue. Justin, I want to thank you so much for spending the time and sharing your life with us. Thank you, man.
[01:04:46.070] - Justin Hall
I appreciate you having me on.
[01:04:47.530] - Big Rich Klein
And it's good to see you no longer a little snot nose brat on the rocks, and you're no longer my headache.
[01:04:57.740] - Justin Hall
Hey, I'm somebody... You can thank my wife for taking me off of being your headache now. I'm her headache now. Perfect. I'm her headache now.
[01:05:04.920] - Big Rich Klein
Perfect. She's my favorite person.
[01:05:06.800] - Justin Hall
You haven't even met her yet. It's great. I'll have to relay that message over to her. There you go.
[01:05:13.490] - Big Rich Klein
I think I will try to get out. I know the schedule is hard for me to line up with, but I typically can get out to one of the Norcal races this year, so I'll try to do that.
[01:05:23.480] - Justin Hall
Yeah, let me know when you show up. You know you're always welcome hanging out in my pit.
[01:05:26.140] - Big Rich Klein
There you go. All righty. Justin, thank you. Thank you for taking the off your work schedule. Now you can get back to work and keep that four acres of ranch going.
[01:05:40.260] - Justin Hall
Yeah. Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Thank you again for having me on here, Rich.
[01:05:43.410] - Big Rich Klein
All right. We'll talk to you later. Yes, sir. Okay. Bye-bye.
[01:05:46.770] - Justin Hall
Bye.
[01:05:47.950] - Big Rich Klein
Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.