This is a fun one, Rob Bonney, OG rockcrawler from Arizona. He’s a trail breaker on those big waterfalls you’ll find there and goes back to the early, early days. Find out some strategies the best spotters use, and call him for your resto work – on Anything – you want to build.
3:17 – never doubt the determination of a 14 year old with a new to him truck
5:16 – Learning from the best of the best
6:44 – Who’s the king of the bump?
10:46 – Something to be said for having the most fun
14:24 – That was Hot!
25:01 – What impacts how trails change the most
36:36 – respecting the judges, but listen to the strategies as well
45:31 – If it makes sense, we’re NOT doing it
52:32 – tell me about rear-steer
Rob Bonney Fabrication, Peoria, Arizona www.robbonneyfab.com
We want to thank our sponsors Maxxis Tires and 4Low Magazine.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
This is a fun one, Rob Bonney, OG rockcrawler from Arizona. He’s a trail breaker on those big waterfalls you’ll find there and goes back to the early, early days. Find out some strategies the best spotters use, and call him for your resto work – on Anything – you want to build.
3:17 – never doubt the determination of a 14 year old with a new to him truck
5:16 – Learning from the best of the best
6:44 – Who’s the king of the bump?
10:46 – Something to be said for having the most fun
14:24 – That was Hot!
25:01 – What impacts how trails change the most
36:36 – respecting the judges, but listen to the strategies as well
45:31 – If it makes sense, we’re NOT doing it
52:32 – tell me about rear-steer
Rob Bonney Fabrication, Peoria, Arizona www.robbonneyfab.com
We want to thank our sponsors Maxxis Tires and 4Low Magazine.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.
[00:00:01.140] - Big Rich Klein
Welcome to the Big Rich show. This podcast will focus on conversations with friends and acquaintances within the four wheel drive industry. Many of the people that I will be interviewing, you may know the name. You may know some of the history. But let's get in depth with these people and find out what truly makes them a four wheel drive enthusiast. So now's the time to sit back, grab a cold one and enjoy our conversation.
[00:00:56.130] - Maxxis Advertisement
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[00:01:21.320] - 4Low Advertisement
Why should you read 4Low magazine? Because 4 Low Magazine is about your lifestyle. The four-wheel drive adventure lifestyle that we all enjoy. Rock crawling, trail riding, event coverage, vehicle builds and do-it-yourself tech, all in a beautifully presented package. You won't find 4low on the newsstand rack, so subscribe today and have it delivered to you.
[00:01:21.380] - Big Rich Klein
On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, we have one of the OG Rock crawlers, Rob. Bonney, he's a Arizona rock crawler. And we want to hear his side of the history of rock crawling from the beginning. All right, Rob. Bonney. Long time no see. It's so great to have you on with us and talk about the history of rock crawling from your perspective and how you got started. So tell us. Let's start off with where where did you grow up?
[00:01:49.790] - Rob Bonney
Where did I grow up? I grew up in Phoenix, Arizona. Born and raised. And this is why I chose this as my background. Yeah. F.J. 40 behind me. My parents bought 1977. The year I was born. So that's how I got started riding around in the back of that thing. I used to hang from the rollbar like a monkey, you know, and trail ride. And my my dad is the kind of guy that likes to destroy things.
[00:02:12.650] - Rob Bonney
So we buy something new. And then he'd take it out. Usually the first weekend and rip the bumper off or get it stuck or that's that's where we came from. Just doing stuff like that. See the outdoors.
[00:02:24.750] - Big Rich Klein
Awesome. It's great to see that you have the vehicle that you grew up riding in. That's so many people don't have that opportunity and start looking for their old rides. I got started about the same time. It was 81-82, but it was through a father in law that that took me wheeling on the Rubicon or in the area the Rubicon first.
[00:02:47.060]
So the year you were born, I was already graduated from high school. So yeah, a little age difference but that's OK. You're still an O.G.. So OK, if you got started that early, that means you've been wheeling all your life, pretty much our life in the in the Arizona area. How what was your first vehicle?
[00:03:09.120] - Rob Bonney
My first vehicle, and I still have it. 1952 M37 Dodge military truck, which I bought for 400 bucks down the road from me.
[00:03:17.220]
You know, some old rancher had it and. My parents, I was 14 years old and my parents were like, uh huh. Go ahead, buy whatever you want. That thing's never gonna run, you know. But it did. And here I am. And I still have it like it's sitting in the shop. I'm getting ready to refresh it after all these years. I'm getting ready to finally refresh it. You know, it's not going to be thing.
[00:03:38.120]
I say not hardcore, but it' on 42" tall tires and I put the doubler in it. But you know what I mean. Not hardcore like buggies.
[00:03:44.900]
So that's I. Yeah. And then I started business. I mean, literally, the rock crawling started out probably in eighth grade. Working for another shop, sweeping floors, cleaning stuff up, getting yelled at. Working on my own truck. He let me have a bay to work on my own truck in. There's a family friend that I was working for that also had a Land Cruiser and four wheeling buddies and that kind of stuff. So and he later turned out to be Don Robbins spotter, you know, built Don Robbins trucks, the first early cruisers.
[00:04:15.110]
I was working in the shop for the Warn Rock Crawling Championships in 98.
[00:04:20.990]
So we got Don's truck ready, put the cage in. And before that, we actually were prepping, Don's truck for Twenty four hours of the hammers, you remember that? Oh, yeah, put on by ARB. Yeah, that's right. The predecessor to King of the Hammers really when you think about it.
[00:04:40.000] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, absolutely. That was the that's the original rock race. That's for sure.
[00:04:45.020] - Rob Bonney
Running all the trails nonstop. And, you know, and we did. We actually spent quite a bit of time prepping Don's truck just for that event. If I Remember, they did well and I don't know, it's been so long. I have no idea. They didn't win. I remember that.
[00:04:58.370] - Big Rich Klein
I'll have to try to nail down Don as well for an interview.
[00:05:02.150] - Rob Bonney
That would be a great one. Yes.
[00:05:04.310] - Big Rich Klein
So if you were working at his shop then and you were born in seventy seven, so you were you were by then about 20 years old, 18, 20 years. Yeah.
[00:05:16.280] - Rob Bonney
Tracy Jordan. We built a Cruiser for Tracy Jordan. Don Robbins and the three of us go out and our favorite thing was to go cut trails. Well Don would go cut trails, me and Tracy would go and follow along and help him out. You know, and that's that's how we learn. I mean, I literally learned rock crawling from two amazing crawlers. Right. I mean, both those guys can actually crawl better than most of 'em.
[00:05:40.540]
Right. Absolutely, it was kind of has a little bit different style to drive. So I came from those courses all meshed together. So when I left Dave's shop, when we're doing Don Robbins and Tracy's cruisers and building really slow, speed, low geared rock crawlers, I left and worked for Randy Ellis, at Four Wheelers Supply and started spotting for him. So I kind of got you know, and that whole crowd was Shannon Campbell and Ian Llinblad.And, you know, I mean, it's a totally different crowd and totally different philosophy for building stuff.
[00:06:13.690] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. Different dynamic, different styles of wheeling as well.
[00:06:17.550] - Rob Bonney
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Randy. Randy's motto is peel out. When I was this spotter, my main job was to stay out of the way, like watch out. The other part of your job was put him back on his tires, you know. Like that was it. You didn't have to spot. Just watch out. Help me get it back on its wheels.
[00:06:35.950] - Big Rich Klein
Yes. Shannon comes from that school, too. He was always, you know, if it was a bump. It was a full throttle bump there.
[00:06:44.850] - Rob Bonney
Yes, he's the king of the bump. Yeah, I watched him drive up something that when I was spotting for Tracy. We had major problems getting up in 4 wheel drive. And he had broken his front drive shaft. And I saw him climb the same obstacle in two wheel drive that we could barely get up, only the back tires were touching down, But it was two wheel drive.
[00:07:08.890] - Big Rich Klein
So you talked about Randy Ellis and Four Wheeler Supply. So Four Wheeler Supply was originally owned or started by. The guy that started Warn, wasn't it?
[00:07:25.090] - Rob Bonney
They were partners, partners. It was actually started in forty six and somewhere in the 50s, they partnered up with Warn, Thurston Warn. And he was a 49 percent silent partner. The Cornelius's were the 51 percent owners. OK. Yeah, that company is no longer with us. That that actually brings a tear to my eye because I did love that place.
[00:07:49.220] - Big Rich Klein
They helped us. They helped us with a couple of the events that we did in Arizona as a sponsor and stuff. So I was it was sad to see them go as well. For me. So give me some background there. You know, you guys were doing, like you said, as a different group of people from Don and Tracy. Let it go through, Don and Tracy first.
[00:08:16.250]
What we're and I'll get more out of them, but this will help me with their interviews as well as Tracy's on my list as well to interview. But what set them apart from everybody else that were wheeling those hardcore trails in Arizona back then?
[00:08:37.990] - Rob Bonney
They were they were true crawlers, you know, like they they actually knew how to turn a tire as slow as you possibly could and creep up stuff, you know, and then.
[00:08:47.980]
And a lot of it was Don style. Right. He came from a time with Birfields, like Toyota FJ 40 birfields and 38" swampers, they don't get along. So he would literally know how to finesse it and not break stuff better than anyone. Tracy, on the other hand. Had to learn that, you know, we got to the point we could change Birfield in about twenty five minutes because we had to do it every trail that we did.
[00:09:13.860]
Usually as a signal for a lunch break. Tracy blew two front axlex. Let's start up the grill. So, I mean, you know, Tracy is just a driven person. He's one of those people that that. Once you decide to do it, he's going to do it better than anyone. And that's just proved it through the ages. You know, he took that style and he he took it to the max of what you could do with that.
[00:09:35.630] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, he did your style. Let's talk about your style of crawling with the early days of rock crawling. When was your first competition that you compete?
[00:09:49.590] - Rob Bonney
I guess, it was in the 90s, probably ninety nine. Ninety nine. Was it ARCA? Yeah, t was ARCA Probably ninety eight, the start of ninety eight. I started out as a spotter. I built Tracy's Land Cruiser and I was his spotter. The guy I worked for at the time day he Dave, he was Don Robbins spotter.
[00:10:13.280]
And we would kind of team up out there and help each other along. And then the next year, right about then, I started working for Four Wheeler Supply. The next year, I spotted for. Randy Ellis. And like I said that was just eye opening. You know, just a totally different style of driving. Kind of guy that took the cheapest vehicle in the entire group. We had a Suzuki Samurai at the time that he built just to, I think, make a mockery of people because he had maybe five grand into the whole thing and we ended up in the top 10 that year.
[00:10:46.650]
You know, the two guys that didn't take it seriously had the most fun. Like, I can almost guarantee you that. Yeah. And know came to the end and it was his driving. It's a good driving style. It's just it's different, you know, and that's like Shannon's one of the guys who's perfected, that driving style. You know, Shannon, Mike Palmer, those guys that could drive on the gas and do amazing things, you know, and that's where my style came from, I guess.
[00:11:11.040]
I always tried to be the crawler. You know, I wanted to be like Don, be able to crawl up stuff, but my patience level wasn't quite there. So. Usually if you saw me on the gas, it just meant I was frustrated. The more frustrated I got, the more on the gas I was. So then later on, I learned to tame it. You know, the rock racing, that's the rock crawling, I was never going to be.
[00:11:32.340]
I was always the top 10 kind of guy. It's really hard for me to get those top places, whereas in the rock racing, that's my style. Exactly. You know, here we are right there up in the championships every single every single year we did it. So that is more of the minding the speed, it's like why Shannon's so good at it. Minding the speed with the Rock Crawling. You still know how to read a line.
[00:11:54.570]
But you don't mind hitting the throttle to do it.
[00:11:57.080] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I'd almost call that that style.More like what did the Southern boys or the Eastern boys, you know, because they have a lot of mud. So you needed wheels spin to get to get places. You can't crawl out of a mudhole.
[00:12:11.840] - Rob Bonney
It's why Shoupe made a lot of us Westerners look really silly. You know, he had come from back East, Jellico and it's the same thing. I was like. I remember going to Jellico the first time. And he looks at me and he's like, You see that rock right there?
[00:12:25.210]
I'm like Yeah. He's like, you're not gonna want to be on that rock. I'm like, What do you mean? Rocks are traction, you know? He's like, when we get up there and my spotters on that rock, the first thing happens, his feet fly out from underneath them. He's on the ground and it's like, oh, it's a whole different world back here. And learning to drive with finesse on the gas, you know, Shoupe had that down to a science.
[00:12:47.760]
He'd just make you look silly because he just had the right momentum with the right wheel speed at exactly the right time. It's all throttle control. A good car, good driver, but throttle control.
[00:12:58.900] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. Chris Durham was another one of those that. That they could could make things and you'd go into almost somehow like the rock bouncer's go nowadays. But he was actually working the car instead of just using the horsepower. That's yeah, that's what I noticed about those guys back there. Primarily, those two, you know, Shoupe and Durham.
[00:13:27.170] - Rob Bonney
Durham was like the back east Shannon Campbell, right. We're going to go full throttle, could bounce up stuff and you would see him lose his cool.
[00:13:35.210]
And you knew when he lost his cool because he was hitting the rev limiter and rocks were flying. You know, it's like I got to spend the week this year with last year, I guess with Durham. And that was but just watching him drive again. I was like, man, that guy's that guy's right foot, while everyone thinks it's just planted. It's the same thing. It's a lot of finesse, a lot of finesse.
[00:13:55.250] - Big Rich Klein
Did you go on the ultimate adventure then?
[00:13:57.480] - Rob Bonney
Yeah. I couldn't miss an Ultimate Adventure going to Alaska. That was too much fun.
[00:14:02.260] - Big Rich Klein
Absolutely. I could imagine going from the rock crawling. You started the rock racing. Was that with XRRA?
[00:14:09.490]
Yeah. You got into the rock racing as well with Ultra4 or King of the Hammers. Yeah. Your experiences there were, if I remember right. Were one of them was pretty hot.
[00:14:24.790] - Rob Bonney
Oh yeah. Burn my car to the ground. That car's running today. Don't ask me how, but someone's out driving it right now. Really, it's heat treated.
[00:14:37.220]
I would probably back halfed it, quite honestly. It was soft in the back section, which I didn't know that was. I did some testing on it myself. And I was like, I wouldn't I would definitely back halfed it. The rear section where the fuel cell was, the metal just got soft. Like, you could take two pieces of tubing, and bang them together and it'd just put a moon sized dip into the chassis. Wow. That's like. Yeah, it was definitely interesting. What happened to it?
[00:15:03.180] - Big Rich Klein
Let's talk about that KOH and what happened and what led up to that. Did you guys ever figure out what it was that that actually caused the fire to break out?
[00:15:15.180] - Rob Bonney
Not not really. I mean, the end of the day, it was just completely burned, so hard to tell. You know what I mean? So what we suspect happened, we started, I don't know, 75th, maybe 70. Our position was way back at the starting line.
[00:15:30.080]
And by mile twenty one, we were in the top 10 physical position. I basically hauled ass like, you know, I knew I need to get through the crowds. And that's basically what we did. You know, we had enough fuel. We passed the first pit, we didn't even stop for the first pit because we knew we're doing so good on time. We're headed to the first rock trail and I either cracked the transmission case or it was a tranny fluid leak, a huge tranny fluid leak.
[00:15:54.190]
You know what I mean? I don't know, if it was the line. I don't know if it's a crack case, but I actually think at this point it's probably a crack case. So the last person we passed was the Lovells. I think it was Roger driving at the time, it might have been Brad, but we passed him and, you know, he's a friend of mine. So, yeah, he said when we passed him, he smelled oil burning already.
[00:16:14.210]
He said, I smelt burnt oil, I didn't see any fire, didn't see any smoke. He said, But as soon as you pass by, I could just smell it. So. Yeah, I have no idea.
[00:16:24.030] - Big Rich Klein
So how how engulfed was the car when you did realize that there was a problem? Or did the car or did you realize that?
[00:16:33.800] - Rob Bonney
We were going so fast for so long that when the wind's blowing, you don't smell any of that because your windows open.
[00:16:39.400]
You got Parker Pumpers on, right? Right. We keep the first waterfall right. Shifted in the low range. And there is a buggy that was to the left of us that was burnt. It caught fire and was sitting there burnt like, you know, they just put it out. I look over at my co-driver and I'm like, you smell fires again. But look. And I'm like, OK, we made it another maybe two hundred yards past that point.
[00:17:03.280]
And the car just shut off. And I realized it shut off because it burn through the fuel lines. And by the time I got out of the entire belly pan, like I got out, I realized it was on fire because my my co-pilot seat the co-driver. Dan, he was. The seat was on fire, like the back of his seat was actually on fire. And I drilled into his head that when he gets out of the car, don't just jump out of the car.
[00:17:25.120]
You got to disconnect your Parker Pumper and your radios and be careful with everything. So I see the fire. I get out like a like a wild animal. I'm just like, you know, rip everything off. I'm jumping out the window. I'm yelling at him. I look over and he's just all undoing stuff. And I'm like, you've got to get out. I actually was in the, on the passenger window pulling the window nets off. And he finally goes, Hey, my seat's hot.
[00:17:48.790]
I'm like Yeah, it's on fire. Get out. So he moved a little quicker after that and we put the fire out. But the wind was blowing really strong and like, we'd put the fire out. And next people up was Lovells. And he's like "hey, you need a fire extinguisher." I'm like, yeah. Used his to get the fire out. He moved on. People are so far behind us that the wind would come back up and it'd kick the fire back up.
[00:18:15.550]
We're putting sand everything we can in the belly. But we're on the rocks. So there's no sand anymore. Shannon came over and peeled out on the buggy to get up enough sand to try and fill it. And we just bought it like we Fought the fire for. An hour, hour and a half. And then finally splits once the seats caught and the whole interior was like in engulfed. It was pretty much done. Well, mean it is, but it's racing every once in a while Something like that happens.
[00:18:41.070] - Big Rich Klein
So you and the navigator got out. You didn't get didn't get burned. You didn't get injured or anything. OK.
[00:18:48.440] - Rob Bonney
Nope, just a sad day, that's all.
[00:18:50.930] - Big Rich Klein
So did did you race ever again after that?
[00:18:55.250] - Rob Bonney
Oh, yeah, I was racing with Bob Willis in the Dynomax buggy. That's right. We did a few years and then. But then Four Wheelers. Who was my employer? And also my main sponsor when they went under.
[00:19:08.640]
I started my own business and that's how I started my own business and had kids.
[00:19:13.680]
and somehow that managed to take away all my my fun buggy money, no more disposable income. No, we've been we've been talking about it. I'm getting the itch, getting the. It's pretty bad now. So I finally feel like I'm in a position again where I'm stable enough and business is stable enough and family's stable enough that all we've been talking about. Let's just say that in the. So sorry.
[00:19:37.560] - Big Rich Klein
Are you are you do you have a weekend wheeler that you're you're wheeling right now? Something that I owned.
[00:19:46.050] - Rob Bonney
I've got a bunch of piles of junk. What it boils down to. I've got no. Yeah, no serious crawlers at this moment. You know, we've got stuff to do, MOAB and that kind of stuff, but nothing to do the buggy trails right now. So that's I mean, I'm at the point I'm itching for it again because rock crawling was always fun.
[00:20:05.800]
But my my my favorite part about it was cutting new trails. Like, I always like doing new trails, doing stuff no one's ever seen before. And Arizona is just right. We've got wash after wash. Walk bunches of them. I don't know. I haven't run yet. found the entrance, found the exit and just waiting for what I know, I guess for me to build another buggy.
[00:20:28.870] - Big Rich Klein
I know that there's a there's a lot of guys at bust trails. Did you ever get a chance to meet Kevin Carroll? Yeah. OK. Kevin was was one of the big trail busters,
[00:20:40.040] - Rob Bonney
and that's what he was. He liked trail riding more than you ever liked the competing. Right. Competing was fun, But he didn't build comp buggies He built trail buggies. Yeah, that's that's that's what it was. And that's that's right back. You know, my last my last KOH car, the one that burned down that was never meant to be a race car, that from day one was a fun buggy, just a plain buggy, carried away a little bit with racing and modified it back towards that direction.
[00:21:05.620]
But it was never meant for that trail rider. Something you made comfortable in all day long, something you can do the hardest, know the most hardcore Arizona trails and be comfortable in it all day long.
[00:21:17.230] - Big Rich Klein
Let's find out if you got any any stories from back in the day. Breaking trails with, say, Don or Tracy or somebody or anybody else or just by yourself into a spot where you thought you were way in over your heads, that you were wondering how the end of the day or the weekend was going to was all going to pan out at some point.
[00:21:38.140] - Rob Bonney
I think the three of us, Don Tracy and myself, didn't really know where that limit was supposed to be. We would just point our way up these washes that we didn't know there was exits or anything. Just start going. You know, Anaconda, which is a popular trail here in Arizona, was one Don cut, you know. We've finished a lot of the trails here. But Anaconda was his baby, right? And it took about a month.
[00:22:03.430]
And we just leave the cruiser out there. He'd get as far as he could go and sometimes he'd roll over, sometimes he wouldn't. We would just pull the computer out of it and come back the next day or come back. One time a week later, we know a little bit different out there. Right now, your vehicle would be stripped down to nothing if you tried doing that today, you know, and walking batteries back. And he was just a lot of use doing himself because we had to work.
[00:22:27.580]
He would just be out there by himself cutting in a possible trail. You know, people know today is still a hardcore 4 plus rated trail. You know who does that? There's something wrong with that. Yes.
[00:22:42.010] - Big Rich Klein
Did you remember the ARCA Ranch Pratt's event done in Florence Junction, Apache Junction, Florence Junction? That that first time? I think it was ninety ninety nine. And then were you up? Did you come up to Cedar City. I did.
[00:22:58.690]
Yeah. I was spotting, that year I was spotting for Tracy. That was the year he burned his cruiser down after Phoenix, like after the Phoenix event it caught on fire. He is out trail riding and burned down to the ground. And we literally built the new buggy in a cruiser. Like the month we had before the next event. They go up to Cedar City, I think. What's the next line?
[00:23:18.250] - Big Rich Klein
How about that? But at the vernal event,
[00:23:20.680] - Rob Bonney
Vernal, now we're a vernal.
[00:23:24.500]
What would you ask? You see, like you're pointing in a direction here. No, I'm just I'm just trying to get a just trying to get a sense of of where you were at and and you know.
[00:23:33.170]
Oh. Cedar City. We did Vernal. We did Phoenix, which is Phoenix. Events are fun, you know, home, home crowd or whatever. Los Cruces They don't do events like that in Los Cruces anymore. And you are right.
[00:23:44.200] - Big Rich Klein
Both Ranch and I at the same time quit doing trail type, I guess you would say courses where you sit up in a trail. And then the first obstacle was in the trail. The second one was in the trail and you'd work your way up the trail. Those were really difficult for spectators and the teams made for really long days. The only one that I could ever remember that I did that way was the one down there in Florence Junction as well on Lower Woodpecker, which you're not allowed to drive down to Lower Woodpecker anymore, does it?
[00:24:15.280]
Probably because of all the petroglyphs and everything else.
[00:24:19.120]
And the BLM manager for that area hates four wheelers like this with a passion. So, yeah, it's it's like that's that crazy. We had a competition there and literally it shut off right now for any driving at all. So that's how much it's going to change as far as that area is land use. You know, and this amount of time.
[00:24:38.970] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I mean, Franscisco back in the day was the one that we dealt with as a BLM manager of that area.
[00:24:46.390]
And he was a pain in the ass. I know Ranch and all sorts of problems and all sorts of obstacles to jump over as well as I did just to put the events on there. And now they've got it shut down. That's amazing.
[00:25:01.780] - Rob Bonney
Yes. And the areas that are you know, they shut down Martinez Canyon, which is beautiful. You know, one of those places that. There's just no reason for it. You know, there really is no reason besides, they just want to limit access, make it easier on them.
[00:25:17.150]
Know, it's I honestly couldn't tell you why. Why do you think that needs to happen? But he does. It's a fight we're going to have continuing on. Right. It's just going to keep closing down more and more and more.
[00:25:28.040] - Big Rich Klein
You know, that's one of the reasons that it's good to see what they've done on the East Coast with everything there is private property. Any place you're going to wheel is private property. The parks there. Same thing here in Texas where I'm at right now. Everything is parks and you got to pay to play. But I. I have a feeling that eventually and I hope it's not too soon, but eventually we're going to see a lot more of that in the West as BLM tries to shut more and more off or the states do.
[00:25:57.070]
It really is a shame because the areas that we're using, you know, they wash out and change
[00:26:02.130]
We're the land of flash floods.
[00:26:03.430]
You know, I've literally done plenty of trails and cut trails. And you come back a year later and you either can't tell you've been there or it's just changed completely. You know, the sands here, the rocks move. It's like there's nothing we're doing this permanent at all. It's literally it's making our way through a wash. It's going to have destructive force. It's coming through over the next monsoon. That's just the way it is.
[00:26:25.510] - Big Rich Klein
You know, a lot more destructive than we, than what people think we are.
[00:26:30.090] - Rob Bonney
Yeah. Yeah. And then the strange things. Right. Like we've created Anaconda and made those things and they've been there long enough. And now it's a marked BLM road. You know, it's a marked trail, they've marked the access and we made it, you know, it was not a mining road that got reused. But, you know, they come in and recognize that there should be some opportunities for recreation.
[00:26:51.040]
Right. The fact that they took something that we did and put it on their map, it says something to me, right?
[00:26:56.890] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. That's that's so that's that's better than taking the stuff away, that's for sure. So maybe we can find a middle ground where they allow us to have areas. I mean, we see that in Moab, you know, they keep trying to close things down or or narrow us down like the Rubicon right now.
[00:27:16.820]
You know, used to be able to drive off, you know, 50 feet or 60 feet to 100 feet to have a camp, a campsite. And now you can't be more than you know. You've got to stay on what they call the trail and even park there and then disperse camp by, you know, carrying your tent, carrying your ice chest, carrying everything to where you want to camp.
[00:27:38.390] - Rob Bonney
Right. You just wonder how the logic of that is, right.
[00:27:41.740]
I mean, how does driving on expanse of granite hurt it? Like, that's what I can't figure out. Right. Right. Right. I get pack your trash in, pack your poop out. All that makes sense. But not be able to drive on solid rock that a glacier formed, I don't think. I don't think we can do more damage than a damage than a glacier could do so.
[00:28:05.870] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. They talk about runoff. You know, the the amount of oils or fluids that that vehicle will lose or leave on the trail. And then after raining, you know, we get runoff and those end up into the the eco system, you know, in the lakes and everything. And eventually into the big rivers and then into the ocean. And it's like, really what happens when we drive on highway highways? You know, the vehicles that are going up on the trail, there's a lot less a lot less impact there.
[00:28:40.500]
They're typically better maintained than 90 percent of the vehicles on the road, even over new cars. Yet where does all that drainage go? Yeah. How can they say what we do is an impact, considering what everybody else does?
[00:28:54.430] - Rob Bonney
And it's where education helps, right.
[00:28:56.070]
I mean, these days, people are carrying like spill kits and making an effort not to not to leave those messes. You know, it's just part of being responsible. Right. So even in the buggy days, it's it's you know, I'd have on a hard core rock crawling trails and a hardcore buggy. What we do is we run everything to a catchcan. So you roll over and sit there for two hours. It doesn't leak a drop.
[00:29:19.110]
It's just sitting there that's that came from competitions. Right. That was like one of the great things that came down from competition was containing all that fluid. To me, it was just like, oh, that's great. You don't make a mess. I don't lose my oil on the ground. I can spend however long I need to to tip it back over a common occurrence.
[00:29:40.650] - Big Rich Klein
Well, if you're pushing the limits. Yes, that's going to happen.
[00:29:43.680] - Rob Bonney
Hardcore Arizona Wheeling is going to land you to be an upside down once in a while.
[00:29:48.280] - Big Rich Klein
So let's talk let's talk, at events or wheeling. You know, the. Do you have any fond memories or any disastrous memories that can be shared, things that happened that were like, wow, we got, you know, like breaking Anaconda. You know, I'm sure that you guys when you guys got out the end of that, you know, it was like, yes, we've done it. Did you guys go out just for the day or did you go out with the intent that you were spending the night out there as well?
[00:30:17.610]
Well, in Arizona, a lot of the wheeling in the summertimes at night, if you want to go out, is going to be a night run. So we're kind of famous for the night runs that you start in the afternoon and. Come home, you know, 5:00 or 6:00 in the morning, the next day. Just get some sleep out there. Yeah, yeah. So there's a lot of night wheeling like that, you know, a lot of weekend trips with the intent of just cutting new trails.
[00:30:42.590]
So, yeah, there was there was a good time, you know, that the camaraderie for like the old rock crawling days, that's both to start a whole new level. Right. Like when you get seventy five like minded teams together that all have the same common interests and usually pretty same idea of a good time and fun. You end up with a pretty good sized party going on every night. Yeah. Teams send out their moles. I like Donny Campbell that would go out there and party with everyone all night long.
[00:31:12.720]
And I kind of think it was just to get an advantage on the competitors the next day, too.
[00:31:18.020] - Big Rich Klein
Cuz he could out drink anybody?
[00:31:21.360] - Rob Bonney
Well, you can't turn them down either, you know, so
[00:31:25.570] - Big Rich Klein
I can't tell you how many times he poisoned me whether it was at Moab or somewhere. Yeah. Years off your life. Years. I have those gray hair. Yeah. No. Were you at Vernal? I'm pretty sure you were there because I. And that's one of the last places I remember seeing Randy. But we everybody was hanging out with Shannon and a bunch of people were getting ready to head to Moab.
[00:31:50.380]
We were doing that. There was a pre party or the during the weekend parties all down at that little bar nightclub that had the dancing and everything. And they had UROC had these signs up that said no alcohol on premises or, you know, during the event or whatever that sign on the way in. Disappeared there. Vernal everybody was hanging around the Shannon and Mitch Guthrie. And I'm sure Randy was was in there in that group. And there was there had to be 30 or 40 guys all standing there.
[00:32:24.310]
Mark Paty walked up and said, you guys can't be drinking. I don't remember if it was Mitch or or if it was Shannon said, well, why not? It's after the event. And he was like, well, there are signs posted. And somebody goes, what sign? There's no sign. And he goes, you know, there's a sign down on the road coming in. And somebody was like, No, there's not. He went down to go look for the sign and he came back and goes, OK, you're right, there's no sign, but you're not supposed to be drinking.
[00:32:51.610]
Got all upset. He left about a month after that event. We were sitting in my shop. I look over and I go, what's that? And there was something behind a piece of plywood. So I went over and pulled the plywood over and it was that sign. The story I got from Lil Rich, was that he and DSI Dave Schnieder pulled that sign out on like Saturday night when they were coming back from the bar. They stashed it in our trailer and then he took it out of the trailer and stashed it in the shop so that whenever anybody was asking, you know, where was it at that we didn't have it.
[00:33:36.000]
But I was like, really?
[00:33:40.730]
I don't think I still have that sign, but I'm trying to help you out any way he could, huh?
[00:33:47.090]
Yeah. It wasn't even my event. Yeah, exactly.
[00:33:51.230]
I think Little Rich was spotting for for DSI that time when he had that S&N buggy.
[00:33:57.470] - Rob Bonney
Those were good times.
[00:33:58.210]
It's the whole like I said, it wasn't quite like that KOH anymore. Now there's a lot more. It's a lot more intense. You know, that that general feeling that everyone's your friend there is. I don't think it's quite there anymore, you know. So it's definitely different. You know, it's just the whole time you have the grassroots beginnings is something like that, it's always going to be that sweet spot, you know, where most everyone's getting along, you know?
[00:34:24.720]
Yeah. Said you found that niche, you're a promoter that most people generally like which. That's hard to do, right?
[00:34:33.480] - Big Rich Klein
They they like me a lot better away from the events than during the events.
[00:34:38.140] - Rob Bonney
Well, that's that's part of being the promoter.
[00:34:40.630] - Big Rich Klein
And I think they like me a lot better now that Shelley has come into my life those years before Shelley, we call my B.S. years and you can take that different ways. I use it as before, Shelley. But, you know, some people say it was, you know, my B.S. years and my bullshit years. But know, we it's nice to have to be able to still say I have a lot of friends in the industry.
[00:35:04.830]
That even though I don't get to see him very often when I do, it's it's like old times around the campfire.
[00:35:11.220] - Rob Bonney
So I feel the same way. I said that in a week with Chris Durham, I felt like we're right back there. You know, we just kind of knew what to expect. And, you know, and when we're standing there waist deep in mud, winching everybody back and forth, we don't really need to talk that much. We both know what the other was thinking and know what we need to do and how to how to get this shit, you know, the shit show move again.
[00:35:33.900]
So. So it's like he said, I run it and it's just like old days and good times.
[00:35:40.850] - Big Rich Klein
So let's talk a little bit about about your life now away from the Wheeling, you know. You said you have kids. How old are your kids now?
[00:35:50.670] - Rob Bonney
Well, let's see. I got the 12 year old and a 10 year old. So they're they're sixth and fifth grade. So it's a starting to be a trying time.
[00:36:02.330] - Big Rich Klein
It doesn't get easier here. It never gets easier. Even when they're 18 and they've gone on to college or started their own lives, they're still they're still there. You're always worried about them, whether they're how old they are.
[00:36:18.880] - Rob Bonney
I bet I been friends of the friends of Rich on Facebook and everything but how's How's Megan doing?
[00:36:24.850]
Things are actually doing very well. She's married, has a couple of kids living up in Idaho, and they're doing they're doing very well. It's it's good to see that.
[00:36:36.650] - Rob Bonney
And this just talking about the old times, like, one of my favorite memories is after the events, like usually I eat dinner with you and the judges and this that kind of stuff. You know, that's I had a lot of respect for all the judges. You know, I realized it was probably not the most fun thing being the judge out there a lot of times, you know, but I was just just think about the other day.
[00:36:57.230]
It's like that's that was one of my favorite parts. You know, just that that part of it all after the event was over.
[00:37:04.410] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, unfortunately, the judges. Even nowadays, but not not near as much. Took a lot of grief and it didn't matter if it was the judges. We Rock or Cal Rocks or ARCA or, you know, whoever's events, whether they were Bob Hazel Pro Rock events or UROC even the East Coast, you know, you could be best friends with somebody on course that's driving on course, the driver.
[00:37:31.470]
But as soon as you had to make that call against him, it was always those arguments, you know, whether they knew they were, you know, whoever was wrong, you know, it just it would just escalate.
[00:37:45.090] - Rob Bonney
I personally felt wronged more than once.
[00:37:51.080] - Big Rich Klein
It's now to see you're laughing about it now.
[00:37:54.030] - Rob Bonney
And that's that's just part of it. You know, I always tried to keep a level head about it. You lose your temper once in a while, but the end of the day, they're there putting the event on for you, you know, and most of them are coming out as volunteers. And it was a lot of work on their part. I realize that, you know, and that's why I would try to separate it and, you know, buy him dinner or something after after the deal.
[00:38:16.440]
You know, I get it. You're there to help. It doesn't feel like it on the course. Yeah.
[00:38:22.890] - Big Rich Klein
I know that some of our old judges have gone on to be competitors or trail wheelers, that kind of thing. And it's it's interesting. I'm going to have to get some of those judges on. To talk about the old times, but not throw anybody under the bus, just say, well, Driver A was a real jackass and driver.
[00:38:49.270]
If he ever hears the podcast, I'll go. Shit. They're talking about me. Exactly.
[00:38:55.630]
The judges were always wrong.
[00:38:57.100]
I know that that most certainly true. I can remember. I remember one time. I hate to throw him under the bus, but Jason Jordan was spotting for Justin Keilman. There was WE Rock Grand Nationals, and we were up in Cortez and they were on. They were in a rock section where they just he was bellying out and he couldn't get through the cones. And finally he got through the cones, but he only got two tires through.
[00:39:30.310]
And we told him it was in the shootout. I told him I said, no, you only got two tires through. They ended up timing out, backing off, and Jason's down the hill and he yells at me, you're always F and me over you never. You're always against me or something like that. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no. You know, I mean, it's. There is nobody that that I can ever say that I did not want to win.
[00:40:00.910]
I want everybody to win, but it's all got to be within the frame work of the rules. You know, I know that there is there's drivers out there that when little Rich was marshalling the events that. There's one in particular that I know that just does not want to ever talk to a little rich again won't go up to his events, you know, just at the drop of a hat, talk shit on him about one call. Yeah.
[00:40:28.910]
Because he felt that it made him lose a sponsorship or the sponsorship go to somebody else. And I tried to remind that guy that during that event he actually rolled out of bounds. Got back on course. So should have been DQ'd on that course. But he still made the shoot out because he didn't get DQ'd on that course. It doesn't matter? I made the shoot out and then I got a bad call, I was like. But you've got a great call before the shootout.
[00:40:59.400]
So be happy that you even made the shoot out?
[00:41:01.820] - Rob Bonney
Well, it's just good judging. If there is a judgment in there. So that's always going to be open. to dispute right? Yeah, that's just the way it goes. And it's a lot of these guys take it really personally, you know, and it's and that's that's what we try and respect in the judges and in the staff that was running. It was the fact that just play by the rules.
[00:41:20.880]
You know, you might not always like the rules, but as long as you try to enforce them across the whole board of competitors then it's fair. You know, I've had judgments. I didn't know that literally lost me at the championship. And it was the way the rule was written, you know, and everyone that everyone that was there and most the drivers that did it against agreed that I should should have won. You know, should've coulda.
[00:41:43.560]
But. It was not by the rules, right?
[00:41:48.410] - Big Rich Klein
Well, we had, in Bagdad, Arizona this year, had one of the teams was convinced they did not hit a cone. They ended up pointing out on that obstacle. And they said, you know, we have video that shows that we didn't hit that cone. And I told them, I said, I can't look at your video because it's always the judge's call, because the judge may have made that same call and somebody else doesn't have video.
[00:42:13.520]
So if that judge is walking the course the same way he saw you hit the cone, that means he's probably seen somebody else hit the cone. It's you know, it's just, you know, it's got to be a level level playing field. And they were upset. They came and they other drivers came up to me, other teams and said, hey, you know, they didn't hit the cone. And my judge who doesn't know any of these players or people, he's a wheeler, but he doesn't he doesn't know who these people are.
[00:42:45.680]
Tells me, Rich, I am. I am. Absolutely. I know for a fact that the guy hit the cone. They hit the cone. And I said, OK, that's all I need to know is if you can get all you can do is say you hit it. Well, they went that was on a Saturday. They got back to their camp Saturday night and they looked at that film because they had somebody filming it for them and they expanded it so that they could see really close.
[00:43:13.550]
And he comes back or he comes to me that on Sunday morning and he goes, I've already apologized to the judge and I want to apologize to you as well. I hit the cone. That's because we looked at the video. We had to expand it, but all that we did actually hit the cone. And even though there was like, you know, everybody that was down off the course thought for sure they missed it. But they actually came back and apologized.
[00:43:44.220]
So most of the time. I always go with the judge if the judge is in the right position.
[00:43:50.230] - Rob Bonney
That's that's what you've got to do. That's why you have a judge. You know, nobody likes it. And there's always going to be arguments. But you've got to have a rule somewhere, right? It can't be a popular popular vote on what you did. Exactly. Cause it doesn't work.
[00:44:03.270] - Big Rich Klein
Because there some people that would always hit cones? Some of the best drivers were guys that were not liked.
[00:44:10.760] - Rob Bonney
You know, every time we got a call that went our way that, you know, I mean, it's part of the spotter's duty was to obstruct the judge's vision. You know, if you had a really questionable cone, you knew you're going to get by. I mean, the smart spotters did. You'd stand there and you'd you block it, being able to see what actually happened. You would hit the cone and you would go, oh, you cleared it, you know.
[00:44:35.820]
Good job. You made it good.
[00:44:37.620]
You know, even though you knew you just ran over the corner, that thing that was part of the spotter's job.
[00:44:42.120]
You know, it's all the game you're playing. And the good teams, you know, very few people were Boy Scouts out there. You know, if you got a call that went your way, you didn't you didn't go, correct? No, I hit back. So it's you know, you argued the point and that's that's just part of being a competitor. You know, some people would argue to the point that they were being maybe crybabies or you could tell they took it like personally inside or call it against them.
[00:45:09.180]
But most of us are competitors. You know, it's I wouldn't call it cheating, but we're not going to try to influence things to go our way. Right. For our team.
[00:45:23.790] - Big Rich Klein
So tell me about. Tell me about your shop. What kind of work are you doing and what do you like specializing in?
[00:45:31.360] - Rob Bonney
We joke about it, but we basically specialize in doing it. It if makes sense. We're not doing it, right. There's any project that everyone's like, yeah, that's totally logical. Let's go. That, you know. That's not what we're doing. You know, right now we're putting a 900 foot pound of torque into a Viper B10 into a short bed. 2006 PowerWagon. Right. Why? I don't know. They don't make short bed power wagons. The customer wanted one. Why a V-10 out of a viper? I know he wants big power. He loves his motors. Right. OK. You know, it's a lot of resto mods. A lot of that's kind of where it's gone. You know, I do a lot of these days. Most people want to build their own buggy.
[00:46:11.790]
I wouldn't say most people, but. But the average rock crawler is involved with it. And, you know, you can buy parts from. You know, in two thousand, you couldn't buy all the parts needed to build a buggy. You had the expertise to build this or that. These days you can literally order pretty much every single part, tab, bracket set, whatever you need to put these things together. You know, that's great. But at the same time, it's one of those things where that's not really my my big market anymore.
[00:46:40.120]
You know, in the early 2000s, I was building a lot of tube chassis, a lot of rock crawlers, stuff more geared for the competition. And I'm not saying that's not out there. You know, it's it's still out there. But my niche is kind to kind of moved over to doing high end pre-runners. Everything is built for performance. You know, we're working on a scout, too, right now. But it's got a Dana 80 Dynatrac.
[00:47:02.550]
Dana 80 in the back. It's going to have internal bypass King shocks, two and a half. We're gonna go get the thing tuned. It's going to have 40" tall tires and it's gonna be finished out so you can drive it across the country. AC interior. You know, the last prerunner we did 19 inches of travel front and rear. But we probably have to have about 300 pounds of sound deadening in an interior and a stereo or an audio file and AVS.
[00:47:31.350]
So we can take it to Breckenridge and. It's just the full package. It's kind of a lot of the stuff we're doing right now is a combination of like a really hard core Overlander is the way to describe it, right. Like like it's like not just a chase truck for Baha, but something that you could get in and enjoy driving, you know, thousand miles of dirt road and pack it all the camping gear in the fridge freezer and the, you know, the rooftop tents and that kind of stuff, stuff that people are really getting out and using.
[00:48:00.740]
But to the to that high, high end of the spectrum. Nice. That's awesome. Like you said, it's one of the things most people don't think it makes sense to put a Dana 80 in a, you know, ultimate duty, 60. Right. But this guy knows it's not going to break. Twin Turbo Cummins in front of it. And before to five hundred, that was all the stuff that we kind of developed. Rock crawling.
[00:48:23.170]
Right. A pro rock, pro rock housing, for instance. All that stuff that we did about rock crawling back in the 2000s. It's now filtering onto just the normal vehicles. You know, it's going to be something you can drive on the street, take to dinner, take out to the movies. But it also go to 4+ trails of Moab with the AC on and stereo blasting. Right.
[00:48:42.880] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome. That's that's one of the things that I love about the early days of rock crawling. And you can say the same thing for off for off road racing is taking the technology that that was created to outperform others now is available for the for the average guy that wants to build a rig like that, whether it's a full off custom resto rod or, you know, a taken a JK or a JL and making it so that it'll hit the whoops.
[00:49:16.900]
But yet do rock crawling trails as well. It's really amazing where the industry has gone.
[00:49:23.800]
You know, that's that was like the like we talked about the early days of four wheelers and Shannon and all those guys, Randy. They were all they like to rock crawl. But we all hauled ass back and forth to the trail. I mean, it was it was a full on desert race to get to the rock crawling trail on a desert race back to the trailers, you know, and. That was a lot of that going on. You know, we all thought we were.
[00:49:47.750]
We all thought we were Ivan Stewart in our rock crawlers and KOH was born, right?
[00:49:54.050] - Big Rich Klein
Yes, exactly. So is there anything that we've that we've missed that you might want to talk about, about the old days or the history as you saw it coming about?
[00:50:07.050] - Rob Bonney
No. I mean, I think we kind of covered it. I like the camaraderie and the people are really what make those days what they were. Right. I mean, how many times, like Super Crawl had one hundred and over one hundred competitors. Right. And you're going through Farmington and the crowd or you're just wading your way through the crowd. It's a. Those days, it was just like that moment. You know, it was new and exciting and.
[00:50:29.350]
And I mean, how do you feel? How do you feel about the rock crawling, progressing on?
[00:50:33.540] - Big Rich Klein
I'm I'm loving the resurgence. We finally up until this whole COVID thing. We've been seeing the sport, at least on the West Coast, grow for the last four or five years. And, you know, before the housing recession of 2008, 2009, you know, lasted through 2011. You know, the economy really took a hard time to come back around.
[00:51:01.130]
And over the last three and a half, four years, we've really seen a resurgence of people with disposable income that are getting back in to the rock, crawling on the competitive side. We had fifty two cars in Bagdad, Arizona. For our event there in March, which number is that was that was the biggest one we'd seen since truly since the recession.
[00:51:30.460] - Rob Bonney
That's actually more that I realized. I guess I need to get back out to rock crawling event once in a while, huh?
[00:51:35.380]
There you go. Yeah. Oh. Cedar City here in July and second weekend in July. And I'm really looking forward to the weekend after the Fourth of July, and I'm really looking forward to that event. It's a everybody everybody likes cedar. A little harder for us to get spectators interested in coming there because you got to grab them from so far away. But as far as the rock formations and being able to pick some really cool lines and everything, it's Cedar City was always awesome.
[00:52:11.620]
Yes. Yeah. Because it's so much big slab. There wasn't a whole lot of loose stuff.
[00:52:16.570]
So it was you know, it forces didn't change at all.
[00:52:23.910] - Rob Bonney
Yeah. No, it seems it seems good. I really like seeing that new stuff coming out of the rock crawling, you know what I mean? Like the portal axles and the Jesse Haines rides.
[00:52:32.790] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, he's just he's really pushed he's really pushed the envelope. And a lot of that, they finally everybody finally convinced me and I saw the writing on the wall that we were gonna have to drop. The rear steer penalty, all the left. We dropped the rear steer penalty. Well, huh? How many years, how many years do we say that they it's an advantage for for ever.
[00:53:03.820]
But it is it is a it is a big advantage. Nobody. I mean, BZ and George just came out and they were running until they broke, and he was they were really having to. Struggle to keep up with the guys that could just use rearsteer and BZ and George were pretty damn good in that scrapper chassis. Give me a little muscle at around and do what they needed to do to keep. To be able to be on the podium with the rear steer cars with a penalty.
[00:53:39.340]
Now, without the penalty, he was like. There's no way I can keep up with these cars.
[00:53:46.170] - Rob Bonney
I went out with BZ when he first first got the scrapper. Right. We went out to a little trail and I brought this the single seat buggy with the rear steer. And there was this one know all day things. Amazing. Everyone knows that. Right? And climb, climb. Awesome. All There's this one big crack with like a double whammy and the rear steer car.
[00:54:08.640]
I could go right up it. I mean, it's no problem, but I had no rear steer the whole way and doing this and we sat there for maybe forty five minutes of him hammering on that car, trying to get up it and I can, I can get it out but it without using the rear steer, you know, it's just one of those obstacle if it was just made for a rear steer. Right. That's why I never understood why we had unlimited crawling.
[00:54:28.860]
But then you're going to penalize me for the rear steer. You know, anyone can do it.
[00:54:33.950] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, but when I when I told what I told Tracy, cuz Tracy was the biggest, you know, the biggest one about, you know, saying get rid of it was you can build an unlimited car. But my rules have to be so that everybody is on a level playing field. Yes, I know that people could add that add rear steer.
[00:54:56.790]
But I knew that what a lot of people were going to do is it is that they were just going to say, you know what, you're going to give give us, you know, make rear steer. I'm just going to quit. And that had already happened because of the economy. And we were really struggling to get it back. People were running ProMod, people were running sportsmen, but nobody was really running unlimited. And I said, OK.
[00:55:18.550]
Now's the time. You know, there's nobody left to say, you know, wait. Not coming back out if you don't do it. You know, if you do it. So I just went ahead and did it. And then that next season, you know, all of a sudden I had 10 unlimited cars and only one with a drag axle. And also there was nine rearsteers, but they were also more trail rig. Some of them were just more trail riggish than actual comp buggies.
[00:55:45.000]
And then all of a sudden, it just, you know, it went to guys building just comp buggies. Through that, it was time.
[00:55:55.360] - Rob Bonney
If you want a hardcore trail machine, it's the way to go, right? As a way to go back there. It's the way to go now. And it's. Have you ever driven one driven rearsteer car?
[00:56:05.780] - Big Rich Klein
You remember Dave Knight?
[00:56:09.000] - Rob Bonney
I do, I tried to remember his name the other day
[00:56:13.030] - Big Rich Klein
Dave Knight, had this, he was one of my first sponsors.
[00:56:16.480]
In fact, he was the first sponsor. He did my first event. Put up or shut up in Lake Amador. And he brought when it brought Chris Durham, Ted and Rene Baron and some of the other people, he made sure that they came to that event. He had that vehicle they called Big Red or he called Big Red. And it was a rear steer buggy with, you know, it was the aluminum body and was all painted in red and everything.
[00:56:39.920]
I he gave that buggy for me to use at one of the events somewhere. And I tried to back it off the trailer. I'm backing off the trailer. I hit the rear steer. I didn't have my harnesses on. Did all the things that I prefer that I told people you have to do nowadays, you get in a buggy, put your harness on. Doesn't matter if you're in your driveway, you're going to load the buggy. You're unloading the buggy.
[00:57:03.340]
Put your harness on. Well, I started to drive off the trailer looking over my shoulder and I hit the rear steer and almost flopped it coming off the trailer. That vehicle did not like to stay on all fours anyway because nobody understood linked geometry and any of that. And that thing, that thing just like to just sit there and I mean, on flat ground, you could turn it just wrong and hit the gas and they would just flop over.
[00:57:29.730]
And I almost flopped it off the trailer, and that's when I said, you know what, little rich, you can back it off the trailer, Roggy, you can do it whoever. I am not touching that rig ever again.
[00:57:42.310] - Rob Bonney
It's hard to drive. Everyone thinks it's just going to, like solve all your problems. But it's it's it takes it's so hard to drive and learn how to drive it. The first year you get it, you usually roll over a lot. You turn out the wrong way when you're on it. I mean, on a waterfall, it's it's just not that easy to do. To learn how to use effectively. So the guys like Tracy and Don that used it masterfully.
[00:58:03.130]
I was like. It's they're making it look easy, but it's not that easy. Yeah, I let Craig Stumph You know, he did some rock crawling events here and there. We're out on a trail ride one day doing Upper Proving Ground in Moab. Yeah, that was like you want to drive? You can drive the buggy. He drove my buggy that day and he got out and he was just like, I thought you had a huge advantage.
[00:58:28.190]
It's not a huge advantage. It's an advantage. It's just not like you think it is. It is not. It's still driving. You still you know, he's like, I can't see anything. I'm like, I know that's usually a single seat car. You you've got you've usually got less visibility, not more, you know. Yeah. He came with a whole different attitude towards rear steer after that. I'm like, uh huh, go drive one.
[00:58:52.340]
It's not easy.
[00:58:54.920] - Big Rich Klein
Well, I'm going to let you get back to work. I want to say thank you for for coming on with with us here and sharing your history and letting people know who you are. You're in. You're still in Phoenix or in Arizona area. Where is your shop located?
[00:59:13.250] - Rob Bonney
Peoria, Arizona, a suburb of Phoenix, Arizona.
[00:59:15.800] - Big Rich Klein
And the name of your business is
[00:59:18.260]
it's Rob Bonney fabrication.
[00:59:20.110] - Big Rich Klein
Rob Bonney fabrication. So anybody in that Phoenix area or anybody in the country that's looking for some real custom work to be done. Give Rob a call and let him bid your job. You're gone. You're not going to be disappointed in the work that he does.
[00:59:36.260] - Rob Bonney
I've got three really good Guys working for me too, which is hard to find. And fabrication world, you know, one of the guys has been part of the Arizona creepy crawlers Roughriders since he was a teenager, his Dad got him into the sport, you know, and the other one worked for Randy Ellis for gosh guess 10 years, something like that. And it's just like you said, we're worth playing now. It's almost unlimited capabilities. And I've got good guys and the work is flowing.
[01:00:04.900]
It's like the guys I got working for me. That's the hardest part of this business, is finding good fabricators that can actually fabricate. I know that sounds silly, but it's it's not something they talk about. It's not their passion. It's not something you're dreaming about. They've actually gone out and built things. No one owns a lot of time Jeeper. And in the Jeeping, his dad was in the, you know, founding members of the clubs here in Phoenix.
[01:00:28.150]
So we just literally shot the breeze, the off road. You know, that's that's all we do. And all we focus on we'll work on, you know, we work on cars here and there. But it's got to be a pretty, pretty extreme car because we're working on it.
[01:00:39.630] - Big Rich Klein
So awesome. Well, thank you, Rob. Let's let's try to hook up. I'm going. I plan on being in Phoenix again here this year. And I'm going to look you up when I get back into town so we can maybe tip a cold one or sit around and do some bench racing.
[01:00:54.380] - Rob Bonney
That'd be great coming out of the shop and the check everything out. We've got way too many projects going on.
[01:00:59.420] - Big Rich Klein
So excellent. We'll do a shop visit with the magazine.
[01:01:03.720] - Rob Bonney
I would actually. I actually just got a subscription to the magazine. I don't know if you saw my name on the list, but very, very nice job. I was impressed that I actually got it in the mail, so.
[01:01:12.700] - Big Rich Klein
Well, good. I'm glad. I'm glad that you enjoy it. It's a it's my retirement program. I'm not going to be able to. Know I've been doing this 20 years now and I. I just turned 62. So you can do the math. I'm not going to be doing this another 20 years. So the magazine and the podcasts are kind of the, you know, to fill the circle. Keep everybody involved. And, you know, so I can stay involved in the in the business when I just decided that know had too much of the physical activity and want to cut back on that.
[01:01:47.020]
So but that's not gonna happen real soon.
[01:01:50.810] - Rob Bonney
Well, honestly, I was it's it's totally great to hear from you. You know, it's awkward to do it this way, but can't wait to see you again.
[01:01:58.210] - Big Rich Klein
All right, Rob, thank you. If you enjoy these podcasts, please give us a rating. Share some feedback with us via Facebook or Instagram and share our link among your friends who might be like minded. Well, that brings this episode to an end. Hope you enjoyed it, we'll catch you next week with Conversations with Big Rich. Thank you very much.