Eighty years of adrenaline isn’t slowing Jack Bettio down. Join us on Episode 75 for a look back at the early years of rockcrawling. Jack has some gems in here. East coast driver knows all the good guys.
4:52 – the alternate runway for the space shuttle is 14 miles long
9:06 – I was teaching for GM, but didn’t want to travel to teach
11:10 – might as well do this legal like
16:29 – the car I set the SeaGas record in has been restored
22:07 – I slipped out of the seatbelt and fell 75 feet out of the airplane
27:41 – I put her through law school and she sued me for a divorce
40:09 – I got off the plane in Aspen and saw a beautiful white CJ7, I want to buy that!
45:57 – how I met Tom Wood
52:23 – what was it like competing in the first event?
1:08:08 – if you’re a gear head, you’re my friend
1:17:45 – we just finished first place, I was 68, time to go
We want to thank our sponsors Maxxis Tires and 4Low Magazine.
Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.Support the show
[00:00:00.500] - Big Rich Klein
Welcome to the Big Rich Show. This podcast will focus on conversations with friends and acquaintances within the four wheel drive industry. Many of the people that I will be interviewing you may know the name. You may know some of the history, but let's get in depth with these people and find out what truly makes them a four wheel drive enthusiast. So now it's the time to sit back, grab a cold one and enjoy our conversation.
[00:00:28.520] - Maxxis
Whether you're are crawling the red rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and Durability four wheels or two Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play for fun or competition, Maxxis Tires Deliver choose Maxxis Tread Victoriously.
[00:00:55.220] - 4Low Magazine
Why should you read 4Low magazine? Because 4Low Magazine is about your lifestyle, the four wheel drive adventure lifestyle that we all enjoy. Rock crawling, trail riding, event coverage, vehicle build and do it yourself tech all in a beautifully presented package you won't find 4Low on the newstand rack so subscribe today and have it delivered to you.
[00:01:19.460] - Big Rich Klein
On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich, we are going to talk to Jack Bettio. Jack is an original OG rock crawler drag racer. S-C-C-A. Skoda sports cars, grand prix racing hot rodder.
[00:01:39.880] - Big Rich Klein
We are going to get into all of the things that he has done. So here we go. Jack Bettio. It is so good to see you. Thank you for coming on board and going to share your life here with our listeners on Conversations with Big Rich and Jack. It's been a long time since I've seen you, but it's great to talk to you.
[00:02:01.940] - Jack Bettio
Same here, Rich.
[00:02:04.340] - Big Rich Klein
So let's jump right in and let's let's talk about where you grew up and your early influences. So where were you born and raised?
[00:02:14.040] - Jack Bettio
Cordwell, New Jersey. And then we moved to Trenton, and we lived in the Italian neighborhood. Then my grandparents were here since 1914 in Lakehurst. He was a metal Smith, chief metal Smith. And he went out for the Akron, and he was the last one, and he went under with the die off of the Barney Get Inlet. And my grandmother lived here until she was 92, probably a quarter of a mile from where I'm presently located now. Okay.
[00:02:51.100] - Big Rich Klein
And how is how is the spelling of your last name?
[00:02:55.990] - Jack Bettio
B-E-T-T-I-O. Okay, actually, the pronunciation in Italian. It's Bettio. Okay.
[00:03:08.280] - Big Rich Klein
So good old Italian.
[00:03:09.880] - Jack Bettio
Yeah, all the way all the way.
[00:03:12.440] - Big Rich Klein
So let's talk about those early influences and stuff. You you're obviously a wartime baby. I would imagine there was a lot of industry in your area or nearby. Is that correct?
[00:03:28.170] - Jack Bettio
Well, Lakehurst Naval Air Station is where the Hindenburg blew up, so I guess it doesn't get any more famous than that.
[00:03:35.770] - Big Rich Klein
[00:03:36.840] - Jack Bettio
And I can throw a stone to the front gate of the Navy base less than an 8th of a mile away where I'm located now I'm in business. There commercial storage. I have two two buildings here.
[00:03:52.180] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. Excellent. Storage is a good one. Do you do storage wars? What's it like when you have those up for auction, you get a bunch of people showing up to try to try to bidon them.
[00:04:05.510] - Jack Bettio
Okay. First of all, we stored nothing for household or commercial storage and business. We have three very important government contractors here. One that makes the supports for the Black Hawks helicopters and two other ones are contractors from the Navy base. That's what makes our location so premium because we're so close to them assembling or manufacturing and taking it and distributing it to the base here. And I don't know if you're cognizant of this, but Lakehurst Naval Air Station is now a joint base for Dix, McGuire, and Lakerhurst, and they're all intertwined.
[00:04:52.790] - Jack Bettio
And between Lakerhurst and McGuire, there's a 14 miles runway. And that was the alternate for the space shuttle. If they ever had to use it, they would have a place to land. But I'm right in, I'm a quarter or an 8th of a mile from the main gate, so we're very desirable for contractors that are on Navy Lakehurst, McGuire or Fort Dix.
[00:05:18.240] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. 14 miles runway, 14 miles.
[00:05:23.070] - Jack Bettio
That's the alternate for the space shuttle if they ever had to use it, that's how long it is.
[00:05:29.650] - Big Rich Klein
That's incredible. I can't even imagine what that would be like to upkeep and to level that thing and all that kind of stuff. That's crazy.
[00:05:39.760] - Jack Bettio
I guess they got to have alternates, though, because things happen that they can't land where they're supposed to or come back or whatever.
[00:05:50.970] - Big Rich Klein
So completely different weather patterns up north as opposed to, you know, down in Florida, that's for sure. So I guess once they start the landing process, it's like, okay, we're coming in. Better get us on the right runway or some place to land, that's for sure. Yeah. So those early years you were near the military bases, I would imagine you probably don't remember being that young the war effort going on. But after that, with the explosion and people coming back, the men coming back from overseas and then, you know, the private industry having ramped up after the Depression in the war, I would imagine it was a kind of a real busy time during those mid to late forties, early fifties.
[00:06:52.330] - Jack Bettio
I can remember as a kid. The only thing I can remember is when we lived in Trenton. My father was a plant manager building airplanes on the river there by the bridge. And I can remember as a kid that we used to have to cut the top and the bottom out of cans, squashing them and then packing them into a box. That was, I guess, our way of recycling the steel or metal or whatever it was. But that's the only thing I remember as a young kid.
[00:07:24.100] - Jack Bettio
And then we moved to Cordwell, and my father was an engineer for Cordwell. Right. Then he went to work for Bectel.
[00:07:34.850] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. That's a familiar name.
[00:07:36.860] - Jack Bettio
My father was a field engineer for Bectal that built the VAB building down in the Cape.
[00:07:44.800] - Big Rich Klein
Awesome. So the early years, when you're going to school, what were your interests? I mean, did you play sports as you got older, did you? I would imagine modes of transportation was bicycle to begin with earlier. Yeah, that's correct.
[00:08:06.500] - Jack Bettio
But the thing is that I can remember back then is that I went to Catholic school until the 11th grade and my father was had parted and was working in Florida. And I no longer wanted to go to Catholic school. I think I had enough of that. And then we went on to high school, which I went to a public school. And then I got a scholarship. When I was a senior, I got a scholarship from General Motors, and I spent two years at William and Mary, and then three and a half years of GM Institute .
[00:08:50.030] - Big Rich Klein
And your study was automotive engineering, then?
[00:08:53.710] - Jack Bettio
[00:08:56.020] - Big Rich Klein
Excellent. So let's jump right into that at GM. Did you work for GM after getting your education?
[00:09:06.360] - Jack Bettio
That was an interesting story. I work summers teaching when I was going through school for General GMC and I was offered an assistant service manager job. And I said, okay, I'll take it. And before this time ran out that I had to decide, they said, Well, we can't give you that position. And I didn't realize it. But GM on the dealership or had an interest in the dealership. And they said I couldn't go to work for them. And that's what happened with my education. I stopped there.
[00:09:45.650] - Jack Bettio
I graduated, but I got nothing from GM or William and Mary because I left on poor terms. They wanted me to go on the road teaching. And at that point, I was racing. And I guess 1959, I set the National Sea Gas record in drag racing. So I had no interest in traveling at their Whim to teach, going all over the country because you want to do race? Absolutely. Then I've got my SCCA license and Roger Penske signed my license in Vineland, New Jersey, and then Lime Rock, Connecticut.
[00:10:30.790] - Jack Bettio
And then I had my license for SCCA for road racing, an Austin Healy that it was one of the twelve cars that were prepared by Brown that was brought over to race in the Grand Prix here in the United States. So I had one of those cars that I was campaigning.
[00:10:53.360] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. I am learning a lot.
[00:10:57.400] - Jack Bettio
That's what happens when you get to be 80.
[00:11:00.180] - Big Rich Klein
The experiences? Yes. So how did you get involved with drag racing?
[00:11:10.060] - Jack Bettio
I really don't know. I guess street racing to start with and started to figure out, well, I might as well. Do this be legal. And, you know, I just did interest in cars at all times, you know, the idea of speed and the recognition and no. Okay.
[00:11:33.510] - Big Rich Klein
Did you I got to ask this question because my dad is of the same era and drag racing and stuff like that, did you your hairstyle. Was it like slicked back, kind of a DA Ducks ass?
[00:11:49.330] - Jack Bettio
No. It was a flat top flat. That was, the thing
[00:11:54.170] - Big Rich Klein
[00:11:54.800] - Jack Bettio
And you wore a white T shirt and you put your pack of cigarettes rolled up in your sleeves?
[00:11:59.200] - Big Rich Klein
[00:12:01.140] - Jack Bettio
[00:12:02.350] - Big Rich Klein
My dad had more of a DA. He was West Coast.
[00:12:07.270] - Jack Bettio
Oh, okay. Well, they were always so much further ahead of the East Coast. You know, everybody look to the west for fashion and stuff. Yeah, I guess, for cars and the trend of what they did, how they made race cars or street rods or whatever. You want to call them hot rods.
[00:12:30.350] - Big Rich Klein
I guess Southern California was a big push area for that. My parents and myself, I grew up in Northern California, but still, it was a big scene. Street Racing was huge.
[00:12:47.400] - Jack Bettio
And that was the beginning of drag race. That's how drag racing started. People were getting locked up for it, so that he said, let's legalize this thing.
[00:12:58.350] - Big Rich Klein
[00:13:00.120] - Jack Bettio
That reminds me of an incident back. And I can't remember what year it was, but my big thing that I wanted to become a member of the Century Club. That was 100 miles an hour on the beach down in Daytona.
[00:13:13.950] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome. Did you make it?
[00:13:16.260] - Jack Bettio
Oh, yeah. I made it in a 58 Corvette.
[00:13:21.900] - Big Rich Klein
Nice. So in that sea gas or class, what were you running? What's that?
[00:13:28.200] - Jack Bettio
55 Chevy. 301 cubic inches.
[00:13:33.090] - Big Rich Klein
301 cubic inches. And what were you running in the quarter mile? Do you remember?
[00:13:40.020] - Jack Bettio
I'm not going to take this out of memory. I'm just taking it. But what? I can visualize 113 miles an hour. 13. Two.
[00:13:49.530] - Big Rich Klein
[00:13:50.970] - Jack Bettio
Yeah, that sounds about right.
[00:13:53.090] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, it sounds about right. It was probably probably.
[00:13:55.880] - Jack Bettio
[00:13:56.330] - Big Rich Klein
Got out there in a hurry? Yes.
[00:13:59.560] - Jack Bettio
[00:14:00.680] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome. So then you got out of schooling. You didn't work for GM. You continued to race. You got your SCCA license. What led to drag racing to the SCCA? And how did you get involved with with that series?
[00:14:22.520] - Jack Bettio
Well, I always like sports cars. And 1963, I had bought a new Corvette, and at that time, I think it was around $12,000, which was absurd because I asked my father to cosign for me, and he wouldn't do that. And he made me buy some lots in Cocoa, Florida. He said I was co sign for you, but I bought two lots, and I think it was like $27 a month for each one. And that was the only way he was going to co sign for this twelve or $13,000 1963 Stingray with the Daytona tank and the suspension that was one of my highlights of having a brand new car.
[00:15:14.050] - Jack Bettio
But I think my payments were like $1,000 or $800.
[00:15:18.560] - Big Rich Klein
[00:15:19.610] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. It was absurd at that time because I paid it off in a year, paid the car off in a year. Traded in my 58 fuel Corvette, which now that car is probably worth twice what the 63 was worth. Now, that car is probably worth over 100,000. Today, it was 1958 fuel injected Roadster. And today it's just like a priceless car, right.
[00:15:50.700] - Big Rich Klein
Don't you wish that hindsight matched foresight so that you could say, I'm not going to sell these cars to figure out some other way to get the next car and then put them in a barn. Yeah.
[00:16:09.940] - Jack Bettio
But you know what? At the time, I guess it was greed. Somebody offered you a good number and you say, Whoa, that's all I'm going to sell it for that.
[00:16:19.080] - Big Rich Klein
Yes. historic rock crawlers, which we'll get into that's happened with. And then the guys look back on and go, Well, I'd really like to get that thing back.
[00:16:29.130] - Jack Bettio
Absolutely. In fact, that's a funny story. My car that I set to see gas record in it sat in Las Vegas barn yard or a lot for seven or eight years. Last year, the person that bought it, and he traced the car back to me through the Vin number in New Jersey, I guess.
[00:16:53.010] - Big Rich Klein
[00:16:53.500] - Jack Bettio
And we've become friends. And he's drag racing the car again. But the car sat for seven years in a field, and he restored it in the original paint. Or, you know, the the way it was sold. And he's been drag racing. But he did the history on the car because it still had Alley Oop on the side. And that's how he got a hold of me through the Vin number, and we become friends and we correspond back and forth.
[00:17:24.960] - Big Rich Klein
[00:17:26.050] - Jack Bettio
[00:17:27.150] - Big Rich Klein
That's kind of cool. Alley Oop was the name of the car, correct. So what was the name of the 58? Did it have a name?
[00:17:38.200] - Jack Bettio
You know, that was the big thing back then. Name the cars turquoise Raider. It was, the car was Turquoise.
[00:17:46.460] - Big Rich Klein
Awesome. Yeah. It's a big thing with with the JK Jeep Evolution. Everybody. I think people name their vehicles as soon as they see it and decide to buy it.
[00:17:59.140] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. But back when I was a kid, if your car didn't have a name, it was a no name. It was unknown. Everybody knew the car by its name.
[00:18:09.540] - Big Rich Klein
There you go. So then how did the sports car racing go?
[00:18:21.480] - Jack Bettio
I was in an organization kind of like the Outlaws. It was called Skoda, and we ran for money, and SCCA, didn't adorn you running bootlegging or whatever you want to call it with other organizations. And I had run with SKoda for several years and just faded away from SCCA. SCCA was too much traveling and nothing to help pay the expenses. That was strictly on your own budget.
[00:19:02.340] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. And the Skoda was more of a was it more local series then it wasn't so much travel.
[00:19:12.500] - Jack Bettio
No, it wasn't so much local, but it was that it paid money. At least you covered your expenses and a couple of Bucks left over.
[00:19:20.480] - Big Rich Klein
[00:19:21.560] - Jack Bettio
That's how we did. But it was a Bill Clarion was a promoter for Skoda, and he used to have some decent purses that we ran for. There is no substitute to support your habit, like getting paid something, at least your expenses anyway.
[00:19:46.940] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Okay. The Skoda racing. Is that where you race with the cars they brought over from England?
[00:19:55.680] - Jack Bettio
I had raced that car in Skoda there again. Somebody came up to me, a good friend and wanted to buy the car and I sold it. And then I built a Austin Healey 104 Series and put a Chevy V8 in it. And that's what I raced. And the car got the car that came from England was all aluminum and it got into a bad wreck. A Skoda. So that car died on its long, I'd say, okay.
[00:20:32.200] - Big Rich Klein
And so you had an Austin Healy with a V eight. That's kind of the pre Cobra days.
[00:20:36.340] - Jack Bettio
Yes, I had a three, one and 104 series. Austen Healy. That's what I campaigned.
[00:20:47.510] - Big Rich Klein
And what were some of the the names of some of the racers that you race against? That maybe. We know.
[00:20:58.980] - Jack Bettio
Probably I can't think of anybody that went on to become famous. Michael Andrettis. No one of the Andrettis son or cousin raced with our series, and the area is the only one, you know what? And Steve, Chris Lathe married the owner of Indianapolis Border. Steve was probably right at the top of our club Skoda because he had a Porsche that he won with. And then I can't think of the guy and Amdretti's nephew or somebody that raced with us. That's the only two that I can think of.
[00:21:53.240] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. So then after racing the Austin Healy, what came after that?
[00:22:02.690] - Jack Bettio
[00:22:04.110] - Big Rich Klein
Flying. You are an adrenaline junkie.
[00:22:07.860] - Jack Bettio
Well, but flying was well, first of all, the reason I came about flying as my father had an arrow coup when he was the manager of the plant and ranting to build airplanes. And we were flying above the field. It was a gravel field upside down, an arrow coup. And I slid out of the seat belt. I was a little kid and probably 75ft that I fell out of the airplane upside down and hit the ground. What? Yes, everybody says now that I told you that, everybody says, now I know what's wrong with you.
[00:22:45.430] - Big Rich Klein
That was going to be my next line.
[00:22:49.640] - Jack Bettio
That everybody says it to me.
[00:22:53.460] - Big Rich Klein
So let's talk about that. How old were you then?
[00:22:57.780] - Jack Bettio
I'm going to guess probably five or six.
[00:23:01.830] - Big Rich Klein
Alright. So you don't remember what that feeling was like when you dropped?
[00:23:07.540] - Jack Bettio
Yes, I do. I was scared to death. I lost my camel hair hat and my mother was going to give me a beaten for that. That's the only thing I can remember about that.
[00:23:22.200] - Big Rich Klein
Not the fear of what's going to happen when you hit the ground at 75 miles an hour or someone from 75ft.
[00:23:31.110] - Jack Bettio
No, I didn't think anything of it because I just, you know, I was thinking, oh, man, I lost my hat. And now I'm gonna get a beaten. And my mother's famous thing was a coat hanger crossed your backside and that put the Wells on you.
[00:23:47.960] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. Now moms would go to jail for that.
[00:23:52.340] - Jack Bettio
[00:23:53.640] - Big Rich Klein
But that's why our generation, you Koh. The Boomer generation is. So I don't know. I think it's why we are the way we are.
[00:24:05.260] - Jack Bettio
Yeah, well, that was the big thing. The mother wouldn't hit you on your arms, your face or your back or anything but your backside a little. Welt with a wire hanger that did wonders for you to remember, man, I'm not going to go through that again, right?
[00:24:21.610] - Big Rich Klein
My mom was famous for the karate chop. I get chopped in the throat. Luckily, she doesn't listen to these, but good. She got me a couple of times. Really good. He fell out of an airplane. 75ft in the air onto gravel on the gravel.
[00:24:44.820] - Jack Bettio
[00:24:46.590] - Big Rich Klein
That's amazing. Did your dad realize it right away, or did he do you fly around for a while and then go, hey, no.
[00:24:57.970] - Jack Bettio
Where's Jack now? He I guess immediately. And I can't remember anything other than being fearful of losing my hat.
[00:25:08.700] - Big Rich Klein
That's so interesting to to think back on something like that, to realize what what we thought was so important at that time.
[00:25:20.250] - Jack Bettio
[00:25:21.820] - Big Rich Klein
So let's get into the flying then from falling out of an airplane. And then when did you start flying? I'm sure it was you flew as you grew up. Or did you wait until did you get back into airplanes after racing?
[00:25:39.380] - Jack Bettio
It came after. I'm just trying to think probably. And the late 60s, I started flying is just something that I wanted to do. And I've been on an aviation all my life and at about five or ten airplanes later, I got my commercial license, instrument rating, land, twin engine and the sea twin engine rating Koh. Okay.
[00:26:14.770] - Big Rich Klein
Did you fly commercially?
[00:26:17.180] - Jack Bettio
No. Well, I shouldn't say that. Yes, I did. I built up a lot of time flying checks back from Mama's County Airport to Indianapolis at night. That's how I built up a lot of my time for my commercial license.
[00:26:34.100] - Big Rich Klein
You flew check checks.
[00:26:37.630] - Jack Bettio
Bank checks, the Copilot 190 King, and it was a commercial operation. They have a pilot and a copilot. And I flew co pilot to build up time for my commercial license.
[00:26:53.220] - Big Rich Klein
[00:26:53.730] - Jack Bettio
[00:26:54.790] - Big Rich Klein
I didn't know if you meant checks like checklist Avakian or not.
[00:26:59.170] - Jack Bettio
[00:27:00.190] - Big Rich Klein
Bank checks. Alright.
[00:27:01.160] - Jack Bettio
They were canceled checks, actually.
[00:27:03.840] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, really? The day that we actually had canceled checks.
[00:27:07.640] - Jack Bettio
[00:27:09.040] - Big Rich Klein
Things have changed a lot. So then from racing into flying, you were doing at the same time?
[00:27:18.270] - Jack Bettio
No, it was after that I retired from racing or gave it up. I got into planes, which was spending more money than I should have.
[00:27:30.500] - Big Rich Klein
Were you married by then?
[00:27:32.720] - Jack Bettio
[00:27:36.620] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Are you married to the same woman? Still?
[00:27:41.640] - Jack Bettio
No. Okay. I put her through College and then put her through law school and then she sued me for a divorce.
[00:27:54.850] - Big Rich Klein
[00:27:55.970] - Jack Bettio
[00:28:00.850] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. That's a rough one. But yeah, I understand.
[00:28:06.440] - Jack Bettio
40 days of trial. Divorce.
[00:28:09.400] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. 40 days.
[00:28:11.880] - Jack Bettio
[00:28:13.780] - Big Rich Klein
So was that when you had to give up racing?
[00:28:17.960] - Jack Bettio
No. I probably went into flying back then. In fact, I wasn't flying by that.
[00:28:28.100] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Did you raise plane?
[00:28:31.250] - Jack Bettio
I had to sell one of my airplanes to pay my divorce attorney.
[00:28:34.880] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Obviously not as good as your wife.
[00:28:39.400] - Jack Bettio
No. Ex wife.
[00:28:41.140] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Okay. So then did you end up racing airplanes as well?
[00:28:46.940] - Jack Bettio
No, I just did it for enjoyment and travel. And I flew out of the country many times. We went to Brazil and all the out Islands, Canada, Mexico. It was just for pleasure.
[00:29:03.690] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. And what were you doing at that time? For work?
[00:29:09.320] - Jack Bettio
I was a contractor. When I left General Motors, I went into business. Heavy excavation, asphalt, paving. I was a contractor.
[00:29:21.160] - Big Rich Klein
Alright. And you did public works.
[00:29:27.960] - Jack Bettio
[00:29:29.620] - Big Rich Klein
That makes sense being growing up and being around a military basis. And how long did you stay in the excavation heavy equipment business?
[00:29:42.800] - Jack Bettio
I guess the 76. Then I bought 1977. I bought a liquor license and a building and expanded it from then from there and expanded it. And I was doing a million and a half dollars worth of business a year in the liquor business.
[00:30:09.250] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. Just regular liquor sales or sales. Okay. So you are more of a distributor, actually a retailer. Okay. So more like a liquor store where the general public would come in. Okay.
[00:30:25.700] - Jack Bettio
[00:30:27.960] - Big Rich Klein
There's liquor is always one of those things that is a business that in less prohibition will always succeed no matter what the economy is like. Yeah.
[00:30:40.910] - Jack Bettio
The worse it gets, the better it is.
[00:30:43.420] - Big Rich Klein
Right. Exactly. You know, it's kind of like laundry mat. Yes.
[00:30:52.200] - Jack Bettio
[00:30:53.800] - Big Rich Klein
Although I wouldn't want to be a bar owner. I understand.
[00:30:58.860] - Jack Bettio
Absolutely not. You can't deal with a drunk. You just can't reason with a person that's intoxicated he had bad enough.
[00:31:07.990] - Big Rich Klein
I worked liquor stores through College and right after College. But it was when somebody would come in drunk or like in Santa Barbara, where I went to College. The liquor store that I worked there was across the street from a park. And we would get the guys that come in for their night train, their little paint bottle of night train. And it was pretty bad.
[00:31:41.820] - Jack Bettio
I remember when the night trade used to sell for $0.98 a pine.
[00:31:46.760] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. People are probably going right now. Night train. What the hell is Night Train?
[00:31:52.660] - Jack Bettio
It was like Thunderbird and Booze form.
[00:31:57.500] - Big Rich Klein
Little MD 2020. Mad Dog Mogan Damit, 2020. How old are you, Rich? I am 63.
[00:32:05.480] - Jack Bettio
Oh, okay. Because you remember all these things. That when I was probably in my twenties. That's what I remember all those names right up.
[00:32:17.180] - Big Rich Klein
And they were still around when I got to my 20s because that's working at the liquor store. Those were the hot items and then the little bottoms. I couldn't understand why. Hi, guys. They would come in and buy Sherry, I guess, because they didn't really have a taste bud left anymore. They just needed alcohol.
[00:32:37.100] - Jack Bettio
And that was the cheapest thing that he could get with alcohol in it.
[00:32:41.560] - Big Rich Klein
Exactly. Except for cough medicine.
[00:32:45.350] - Jack Bettio
Well, the robot Tussin that went out a long time before that.
[00:32:50.080] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I guess it did, didn't it?
[00:32:52.420] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. Robotussin, I think, was the one that the alcohol was in, I guess, was alcohol.
[00:32:59.220] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I think so.
[00:33:00.240] - Jack Bettio
Yeah, but I remember that is going to school in Catholic school that everybody had a cough. They all carried the Robitussin with them. So.
[00:33:14.020] - Big Rich Klein
Catholic school, sister Mary Margaret, let's see. That was teaching Chong did a thing about Sister Mary Margaret. I think it was.
[00:33:25.190] - Jack Bettio
And I had my sister Ursula.
[00:33:29.440] - Big Rich Klein
Sister Ursula, and not Ursula Andrews.
[00:33:32.880] - Jack Bettio
[00:33:34.780] - Big Rich Klein
People will be doing a Google search. Ursula Andrews. Who's that? Well, on the same line as Raquel Welch and others. Sophia Loren. Yeah, we can get into all those.
[00:33:51.380] - Jack Bettio
How did you get into this podcasting?
[00:33:54.520] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. I'll answer that question. What happened was Shelley has been on me for quite a few years about putting together a podcast about she just said I should write a book and the grandkids would have would have something so they could know me. And I was like, Well, we have to wait until they were 18, at least for them to read it.
[00:34:21.070] - Jack Bettio
[00:34:26.480] - Big Rich Klein
She started pushing for me to do a podcast. And I'm one of those that it's like, do I really want to start something new? Well, she's really pushed me out of my boundaries since I met her in nine. And we got to the COVID restrictions last year where everything shut down. And I had just previously talked about doing it. And I was talking to Wyatt Pemberton, who does the talent tank. And that's the ultra four Koh based podcast, a podcast. And he said, Rich, go for it.
[00:35:08.730] - Big Rich Klein
You know, a lot of people you've been around the sport a long time, so take advantage of that. So after Koh, we were in Texas waiting for our event series to start. And it was like, you know, I might as well do something because we couldn't do anything. We had to cancel the beginning of our season and move things around. So sitting in our hotel that we own in Texas, I was I was kind of bored. And I said, okay, what do I need to do to start these podcasts?
[00:35:44.710] - Big Rich Klein
So we did some research, jumped right in and started putting together the podcast. And the whole idea was to tell the history of offroad especially role to get it down on pencil and paper where in the future will have this.
[00:36:01.990] - Jack Bettio
That's the most important thing, because people today they just don't care about any of the history. I mean, look what they're doing with our monuments and stuff the tear stuff down. But you got to make the or sport became very interesting how it started, how to progress.
[00:36:22.220] - Big Rich Klein
And today what it is that you got to put down on hard stones and be there for posterity so that the next generation can understand what life was like because before the Internet, it's really hard to to understand really what life was like. And people aren't experiencing as much as we did. I think they are into experiences, but they're not experiencing the same type of of things.
[00:37:01.760] - Jack Bettio
And I don't mean the same growth in progress of the sport. How it started. What happened after that?
[00:37:09.740] - Big Rich Klein
Correct. True. And you know, once everything is on the Internet, it's around forever. Anyway, I think so. If you can believe half the stuff that's the problem were of that generation. So let's talk about 1976 or there abouts when you you got into the liquor store and doing liquor sales. So you became a liquor store owner.
[00:37:40.940] - Jack Bettio
[00:37:42.220] - Big Rich Klein
How long did you do that for?
[00:37:45.180] - Jack Bettio
Actually, I'm just trying to think while I was still in the contracting business, I bought it because I needed some tax writers for my contracting company. And at that time I had bought some property in Tom's River, and I had started a garden center. And I was doing bidding because I had familiarization with Sam, which is the agency that does the government bidding. And I started bidding all over the state. I need I needed some write off. So that's exactly why I got into the liquor store.
[00:38:29.280] - Jack Bettio
And it progressed from there. But I built it into we were doing a million and a half dollars when I sold it. It's something that I paid 100,004 and solar for $2.4 million.
[00:38:44.320] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. I could use an investment like that. You ran the liquor store?
[00:38:54.600] - Jack Bettio
[00:38:55.490] - Big Rich Klein
You had the contracting business?
[00:38:57.360] - Jack Bettio
No, Koh. I hired a good friend that just retired from the service to run the liquor store. Yeah. To run the liquor store. He just retired out of the Navy. He was a good flying friend. That's how that came about.
[00:39:14.010] - Big Rich Klein
Okay, alright. So then you had the contracting business. You had the liquor store business. What other things did you get involved with?
[00:39:26.870] - Jack Bettio
That was enough. Come on. I'm getting okay. Then I still had property here close to the Navy air station. And I said, Well, I might as well develop that because I sold the liquor store. And then I sold the shopping center that's behind the liquor store. And I still had five and a half acres left over. And that's where I have the Presently Ridgeway Lockup, which is a commercial storage for businesses. And I got three government contractors here.
[00:40:01.980] - Big Rich Klein
Perfect. So let's jump into how off road became part of your life.
[00:40:09.330] - Jack Bettio
Well, I skied for many years. And one day I got off the plane in Aspen, Colorado, and saw this beautiful white CJ seven. And I said, I want to buy that. So a long story short, I finally wound up buying it. It was Stage West. I don't know if you know the name, but Chris over Acker. That's was his mother's Jeep. And I bought that. And that's how I got into Offroading. Chris took me to Moab, Utah, and he says, Well, we're gonna go up this trail and I'm looking up the mountain.
[00:40:52.860] - Jack Bettio
There's no road there. There's no nothing. I says, where and he goes right up there. And I got it's on my way. Rim. And I go, what? We're not going up there. And that's how I got started. And off roading.
[00:41:07.380] - Big Rich Klein
And what year was that? Approximately?
[00:41:12.250] - Jack Bettio
God, I can't even remember. I would say 82.
[00:41:20.220] - Big Rich Klein
[00:41:21.550] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. I mean, more was nothing in 82. I mean, there's a thing that we say we could look back and say, I should have bought some property there. There was no motels or hotels in Moab at the time. And we said, hey, this would be a great place. After I went up this no road to Moab, Rim. And I said, hey, this is really fun. So I had bought a place in Aspen, Colorado, and we made many trips from Aspen to Moab after that.
[00:41:55.810] - Big Rich Klein
But today, Moab is just at a site you cannot find property now unless you are willing to spend a million dollars or more for pretty much an undeveloped lot.
[00:42:11.660] - Jack Bettio
[00:42:12.530] - Big Rich Klein
We looked at purchasing a two acre parcel in Moab with a house on it. And if that whole hindsight thing, it would have been well worth it to spend what they wanted, even though we didn't want to spend that much.
[00:42:33.520] - Jack Bettio
[00:42:34.530] - Big Rich Klein
And the crazy thing with that was that we made an offer. We made like three or four offers. They wouldn't accept any of them. And then, like, a year later, they accepted an offer that was lower than our original offer.
[00:42:51.280] - Jack Bettio
One friend that we became very friendly with was Dan Mick. You must know the name.
[00:42:58.980] - Big Rich Klein
I know Dan.
[00:43:01.200] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. Well, Tom Wood, I'm quite sure you know who that is?
[00:43:06.610] - Big Rich Klein
[00:43:07.620] - Jack Bettio
Tom and I met in Moab, probably in 82 or 83, when he worked for six States. And we became very close friends. In fact, I was going to be his business partner at one point, but we still are very close friends.
[00:43:23.500] - Big Rich Klein
I understand you guys occasionally do some fishing.
[00:43:26.600] - Jack Bettio
[00:43:30.720] - Big Rich Klein
I had heard that Charlie Melsner. Yep. And then also the other one that mentioned it was Ken Bloom, Koh.
[00:43:42.400] - Jack Bettio
[00:43:42.970] - Big Rich Klein
Kenny, Kenny Bloom.
[00:43:45.400] - Jack Bettio
So their names from the past, that's for sure.
[00:43:49.370] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, absolutely. They're still there. In fact, I got your phone number from Charlie, so I looked for it. I couldn't find it in my records. And for some reason, I didn't have you in my phone. And with the change of phones over the years, I've lost some phone numbers. And then Charlie goes, yeah, that's a great idea. Interviewed Jack. And so that's how we ended up here. But you were on my list. When I first started putting together this podcast, I made a list of 50 people I wanted to interview.
[00:44:24.970] - Big Rich Klein
That list is now close to 400.
[00:44:27.770] - Jack Bettio
[00:44:28.920] - Big Rich Klein
And I've already done 70. But every time I do an interview, I add somebody on there that I want to do that I want to interview. So it just keeps getting longer and longer and longer.
[00:44:41.420] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. In fact, I just got a thing from Charlie. He's down to Annapolis. He's got my boat that he's been using for the last two or three years. I said, 1969 Boston Whaler that I bought brand new. And I've had it out at Lake Paule. I've had it in many, many places, but it's just an easy towing, perfect boat for four or five people. And I just got a picture of it. He sent it to me from down in Annapolis. That's where he's going into the Chesapeake today.
[00:45:14.200] - Jack Bettio
He says, oh, well, probably cover 60 miles today. I said, yeah, Lake Pal, I did 150 miles. I had probably close to 70 gallons of fuel. I had under the console under the seat. I had tanks made for it. So because when we are in Lake Paule, it's 75 miles between places. You could buy fuel, right?
[00:45:40.280] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome. You've had an interesting life. We got to keep going into this thing. So in 83 82, you buy the Jeep, you go to Moab, you do Mo Ibrim. You meet Tom Woods.
[00:45:57.850] - Jack Bettio
That was on the Jeep Safari that Tom was still working for six States at the time. And I was the one that was instrumental. I said, Tom, you need to go out on your own. He says, oh, he says, Well, what about being a partner with you? And so it was a long. So that's how I met Tom. I had the front drive shaft on Ali Up two, which was my Jeep that I bought from Stage West. The front drive shaft kept twisting because I had a modified 401 AMC motor in it.
[00:46:33.500] - Jack Bettio
And he says, Well, I can build you one. And I go, this is how I met Tom. He says, I could build you. And I said, yeah, how much? He says, Well, let's build you one first. So I said, how would you build me one if you don't want to tell me how much gonna cost me? I know what the Grand Junction people were charging me through stage west for this front drive shaft. He saw, I'll build you one. And I said, Well, how much deposit went?
[00:47:00.920] - Jack Bettio
No, no. You try it out if you bend it, you don't know mean anything. And I said, Well, how much would I owe you if I didn't? He says, Just try it out. That's how I met Tom. I said, do you know where I'm from? He goes, no, I said, I'm from and I used it. I said, I'm from New York. And you're going to just put a drive shaft on my build me a dry shop, put it on and I go use it here. Eastern Jeep Safari.
[00:47:25.470] - Jack Bettio
He said, yeah, I said, oh, boy. And that it still is on the Jeep because I sold that Jeep to Tom Wood.
[00:47:35.270] - Big Rich Klein
Oh, did you?
[00:47:36.080] - Jack Bettio
[00:47:39.460] - Big Rich Klein
Wow. The world is so small.
[00:47:41.670] - Jack Bettio
Yes. That's what people don't realize. And you know what one thing that I've followed in my life, that was always. Why did my grandmother say that? If you can't say something good, don't say anything at all. And I can never understand what that meant. But the world is so small. You say one bad thing about a person and it'll travel throughout the United States. It seems it's funny how little things when you were a kid. Do you remember from what your grandparents told you and how they really come true?
[00:48:17.060] - Big Rich Klein
Yup. That's been been my experience. That whole thing of don't burn bridges. Don't step on people as you go up the ladder because you may be under.
[00:48:32.600] - Jack Bettio
How about this one? Don't drink out of the garden hose.
[00:48:36.030] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, because that's dangerous. You're all going to die exactly like riding in vehicles that didn't even come with seat belts or back of pickup trucks, bicycling and skateboarding without helmets. We don't even know what helmets were.
[00:48:53.020] - Jack Bettio
Well, the football people had those leather things.
[00:48:56.450] - Big Rich Klein
Actually, I can remember wearing one. I wore my dad's. We'd go play tackle football down in the park. And I'd wear the leather helmet. Yeah, just because it was cool, not for any other reason.
[00:49:09.950] - Jack Bettio
Well, you got your brains knocked out. They wouldn't fall on the ground.
[00:49:14.400] - Big Rich Klein
Exactly. They knew where they were at. Exactly.
[00:49:18.180] - Jack Bettio
[00:49:22.390] - Big Rich Klein
You're keeping at that point the events, the rock crawling events get started. And how did you get involved with the rock crawling in Colorado?
[00:49:39.430] - Jack Bettio
It was been started. And then, you know, it bloomed from there. And I was when they were registering. And that's how I got the number one and two because 102nd person that signed up for rock crawling as an invent. And I'm just trying to think of the welders name from Colorado. He him and the pink CJ six.
[00:50:10.880] - Big Rich Klein
The CJ six. The pink one. That was Harold Off.
[00:50:15.380] - Jack Bettio
Harald off in that group. That's how we started. I can't think of the holder's name from Carpen Dale. He was a good friend of Harold. A million Pat Gremillion. Well, you know, all these people, don't you?
[00:50:31.310] - Big Rich Klein
I interviewed Pat.
[00:50:33.220] - Jack Bettio
Oh, okay. Well, that's how it all got started. You know, the Pat says, well, you know, I lived in Aston at in Carbondale. He's probably 20 miles away, but I met him through Chris over Rocker Stage West. Did you interview Chris? That's a person that you should interview?
[00:50:55.400] - Big Rich Klein
No, I have not.
[00:50:56.660] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. I mean, he was one of the four runners of rock crawling. He did a lot of building for different customers, but he got me to go to Mo Web for the first time.
[00:51:09.380] - Big Rich Klein
That's awesome. So what was your first event that you did then?
[00:51:15.830] - Jack Bettio
[00:51:16.840] - Big Rich Klein
Yes. Were you involved with the very first one was in New Mexico. In La is the second one, I believe was either Arizona or Arizona. So that's California, right.
[00:51:33.700] - Jack Bettio
Arizona. Because I have a picture of Pac Gremillion stating straight up on an obstacle.
[00:51:42.130] - Big Rich Klein
And that my first one. Okay.
[00:51:44.860] - Jack Bettio
[00:51:49.450] - Big Rich Klein
[00:51:52.360] - Jack Bettio
Mane is another one that I. That when he started that I think you should interview because he goes way back to. But that's the whole Colorado group and the New Mexico group.
[00:52:07.940] - Big Rich Klein
Right. And so after competing in that first event, what was it like competing in that first event?
[00:52:23.740] - Jack Bettio
Not very well organized. Everybody had more or less grow jeeps or trail Jeeps competing. And it really wasn't like hardcore competition people had, you know, they had trail rigs that they were lifted or tires and Motors or whatever. But it wasn't anywhere near the scale it is today or, like when you started, we rock or Arca or any of those IMEA. They were as compared to today today. The the hundred thousand dollar rigs. They're not off road vehicles. Yeah.
[00:53:11.690] - Big Rich Klein
And that's if you build them yourself. Yeah.
[00:53:14.120] - Jack Bettio
Absolutely. That was my point. I mean, that was like the four running of taking a Jeep off the street and putting a lift kit on it, a set of tires. That's what that second event was like to me. Right.
[00:53:31.980] - Big Rich Klein
Were you at that first Paragon event? New Rock?
[00:53:35.740] - Jack Bettio
No. Charlie was, though I was involved with a Southern group down. And I tell you right. Geicoi ran that series, and we I think we finished right at the top of that. That's where Chris Durham. He won the Championship and shop on the other 110 shop shop. You interview those guys?
[00:54:07.350] - Big Rich Klein
I hope Durham. I have Ken. I have not been able to nail down. He keeps saying yes. And then he's not available because he runs a tow business.
[00:54:15.790] - Jack Bettio
[00:54:16.510] - Big Rich Klein
So he never knows when he's going to be available. But the next time I'm out in that area, I am going to sit him down and we'll do it across the table if we have to in the middle of the night, if we have to.
[00:54:30.240] - Jack Bettio
I met those two guys in King of the Hammers. It wasn't King of the Hammers. Then it was the first event. It's snow go. We were in California. Charlie and I came out from the east and Chris and shop. We met them and stayed in the same hotel and can get a hammer down. There is snow a year. We were there, I think was February up?
[00:54:57.200] - Big Rich Klein
[00:54:58.930] - Jack Bettio
So then you talk about something that's grown compared to when we started in 2000. And I went every year till 2010. And Charlie still goes every year. And his kids are driving now. And what's the other one? Oh, he has a boy and a girl are both driving now from New Mexico. Is it not New Mexico? He's one.
[00:55:37.270] - Big Rich Klein
Shannon Campbell. Shane Campbell out of Arizona.
[00:55:40.730] - Jack Bettio
Yes. Arizona. My memory is terrible. I can't remember these guys needs, but I can see them visually.
[00:55:46.640] - Big Rich Klein
My brain and I know you're talking about it just takes me a minute to put the name together.
[00:55:53.360] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. But now the next generation, his kids are running. Well, Charles, little Charlie is driving, too. And so is Hannah. The Charlie has two of my old rigs that we were the first team Quadri tech. I started the team. Yeah.
[00:56:15.620] - Big Rich Klein
I was going to get into the whole team Quadra tech thing. So you guys ran early. You were running that stage west CJ seven.
[00:56:26.220] - Jack Bettio
For the King of the Hammers.
[00:56:28.780] - Big Rich Klein
No. For the early rock crawls.
[00:56:32.300] - Jack Bettio
[00:56:33.750] - Big Rich Klein
[00:56:34.080] - Jack Bettio
I think we only ran that one year, and then I built a rig.
[00:56:38.880] - Big Rich Klein
[00:56:39.520] - Jack Bettio
So that was 2000. We built a rig for I wasn't called the King of the Hammers. Then it was just I forgot what it was called. But the first year was 2000 that Charlie and I drove out from east here, and we competed in that first, I think Ranch in that that would have been.
[00:57:04.660] - Big Rich Klein
Well, yeah. In 2000, it wouldn't have been the racing. It was a rock crawl event. And they had they had.
[00:57:16.960] - Jack Bettio
Shannon was there.
[00:57:18.510] - Big Rich Klein
Right. And Chris and Chris and shop Charlie.
[00:57:23.880] - Jack Bettio
Myself, Ken Bloom was there. Koh. God, man, that's a long time ago.
[00:57:35.300] - Big Rich Klein
Guys like Mike Schafer probably would have been there at that time. Lance Clifford, Bob Rogi, some of the West Coast guys.
[00:57:44.160] - Jack Bettio
But nobody at that time. Whatever thought it's got to be what it is today. King of the Hammers, King of the Hammers is a whole city now of racing. I mean, that's the biggest event in the world.
[00:57:57.280] - Big Rich Klein
I would say I would say for for what? Especially in off road. Absolutely.
[00:58:03.660] - Jack Bettio
[00:58:05.160] - Big Rich Klein
Without being counting all the spectators in Mexico that watch along the way, like the Baha 1000, because you can't really count. I don't really count that because they're not. They're not a paid spectator or anything. They're just Koh there.
[00:58:22.690] - Jack Bettio
[00:58:23.560] - Big Rich Klein
But, yeah, that event has grown huge and it spun off of the rock crawling because Dave Cole used to run in our series, and he ran in the pro rock series with Bob Hazel.
[00:58:39.080] - Jack Bettio
[00:58:39.540] - Big Rich Klein
Bob I member Bob and then and then he and Jeff Koh got together, and I think it was 2006. They were talking about it. 2007 may have been the first year.
[00:58:52.690] - Jack Bettio
Who is the guy that sold his series of rock crawling to Ranch?
[00:59:00.570] - Big Rich Klein
Was it that was Craig Stump?
[00:59:04.620] - Jack Bettio
[00:59:05.550] - Big Rich Klein
That's it. Craig Stump started you rock?
[00:59:08.520] - Jack Bettio
[00:59:09.240] - Big Rich Klein
At the same time that I started Cal Rocks. I had been in Cedar City, Utah, when I moved to California. Craig started Uroc. I started up Cow Rocks, and then he brought in partners, the pads. Mike and Mark paid yes. Then they bought him out and brought in and then made a deal with Ranch and dropped the Arca and became all Euroc.
[00:59:38.340] - Jack Bettio
[00:59:39.300] - Big Rich Klein
And so that brings a lot of memories back. Yeah. And then we're doing the Craig's, the one that started Super Crawl. And that's a whole nother story. When I'll have to get Craig Stump on the on the podcast and talk to him about the whole beginning of Rock and Super Crawl.
[01:00:02.170] - Jack Bettio
Well, then you got to do. You said you met me in Paragon, but, you know, he has the place in Indiana now.
[01:00:10.640] - Big Rich Klein
Kyle. Yeah, I did.
[01:00:11.670] - Jack Bettio
Kyle. Oh, did you? Yeah. I was going to finance Kyle. We looked at a place, another place after he was drawn rigmarole with the town on Paragon, that we looked at a place further out in Pennsylvania, that we couldn't come to terms with the people to buy it. But originally, we're going to do that. And then Kyle got involved with the guy that owned where he's at today?
[01:00:42.000] - Big Rich Klein
[01:00:43.360] - Jack Bettio
Yes. Yes. This is really sparking a lot of memories of names to me.
[01:00:51.940] - Big Rich Klein
And then Troy with Badlands. He hired Jesse Haines, who is now probably the one of the biggest names in rock crawling at this point, if not the biggest. He was building buggies for Troy out of College and now has turned it into a real successful business with Jesse Haines. Fab. Yes.
[01:01:19.830] - Jack Bettio
Boy, I'll tell you, we get all this down his history and a lot of people probably won't enjoy, but a lot of people will just go, Holy shit. I was involved with that. I remember that. I mean, you just brought up a lot of names that I hadn't come across in years, but, you know, they were monumental to me at the time.
[01:01:42.260] - Big Rich Klein
Right. So you weren't running the New Rock events, but you started off in Geico down at ERock, the Eastern correct Eastern Rust Calling Association. And that was like Charlie.
[01:01:57.540] - Jack Bettio
Yes. There's another name I hadn't seen in a long time, but we were one of the original people started with those guys, and Charlie kept saying, you got to come to whatever they called New Rock. I guess it was with Kyle. And I said, no. I said we're going to win a Championship down here, and we're not going to leave to come up there. So the next year that Iraq fell apart because those guys are coming from Cleveland, if I remember correctly to Jellico that ran that.
[01:02:30.080] - Jack Bettio
So, you know, Charlie says, well, you know, Charlie and I have been friends for many, many years, and I said, okay, so we came up with Kyle. That's how that all started.
[01:02:43.530] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. Because the one of the things that I found is that or that I see with rock crawling organizations or man our support in general. I don't care if it's businesses just about any kind of business. But when you have partnerships or even club, because that whole we rock thing started off more like a group of guys that decided, hey, let's put together this rock crawling event, use Geico and then some guys. And I don't know if this is the case with them, but some guys don't pull their weight more people.
[01:03:24.150] - Big Rich Klein
Some guys are doing most of the work. And it just gets to the point where animosity builds, like in any relationship. And once animosity builds in any relationship, it's doomed.
[01:03:37.080] - Jack Bettio
[01:03:38.640] - Big Rich Klein
People start keeping score. So that's one of the things I always tell young couples when they're getting ready to get married. As you know, one of the first rule is don't keep score, do everything you can for the other person in the relationship or business partnership. And don't worry about what the other person is doing.
[01:04:00.480] - Jack Bettio
How true that is. That's amazing. When you think about it, you have to think about what you just said and go, that's absolutely the truth.
[01:04:11.570] - Big Rich Klein
Sure is. So run in Iraq, and then the next year, we rock kind of falls apart, and you go to New Rock and compete at Kyle's events. The very first event Kyle did, me and Bob Rogi went out there to help them run the two Kyles to run that event.
[01:04:34.670] - Jack Bettio
What is Kyle Jr. Doing now is still around.
[01:04:38.520] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. He's putting on, like, Jeep classes and education and leading trail rides and stuff, mainly out of Paragon. I believe he does not Paragon. Excuse me. Rush Creek Creek. He works out of there a lot. He's not a partner in the park or anything, but he does there. And I think he does runs out at AOA anterior. That's out further and in Shamokin. Yeah. That's what he's doing nowadays.
[01:05:19.650] - Jack Bettio
There's so many people that cross past he and I and so many other people. It's amazing now that we were talking about it. That brings back all these memories in the early days. I can remember the first event we ever did. It. We rock. It was just there was nothing there at that time.
[01:05:44.140] - Big Rich Klein
No, there wasn't. There was just some rocks in the trees.
[01:05:47.860] - Jack Bettio
Yep. And the week before, they got a voluntary group to cut some trees down to make a trail.
[01:05:55.820] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. So you could get to those rocks.
[01:05:58.140] - Jack Bettio
[01:06:00.020] - Big Rich Klein
I remember the first time we went out, Bob and I went out there to to help them put on that first event, we were driving some of the obstacles. And little Kyle asked, what do you think of our rocks? And Rogi, in his standard fashion of speaking, looked around and said, yeah, they're great rocks. Too bad you guys drive around them because there was no marks over the rocks. I mean, they go on the edges and stuff, but none of the big drop off yet. And then that first event, guys thought we were really trying to make them look bad.
[01:06:39.560] - Big Rich Klein
And Charlie had to step in and say, no, this is what the rock crawling courses look like out west. They've just brought the West Coast wheeling to the east.
[01:06:50.860] - Jack Bettio
[01:06:51.520] - Big Rich Klein
So guys were didn't understand that they really didn't. Vick Carol from Atlas Advanced Adapters was there at that first event and had to explain that to some guys in the bar. Same thing. They were sitting around talking about how the courses were after the first day, and he told him he goes, hey, that's the same kind of courses they set up. And then Charlie said it the next morning at the second driver's meeting because guys were just really upset with us thinking that we just threw cones up on the hardest rain possible just to make them look bad.
[01:07:29.220] - Big Rich Klein
And that wasn't the case at all.
[01:07:32.140] - Jack Bettio
A Dick. Karen was a good friend of Tom Wood, you know that, don't you?
[01:07:36.530] - Big Rich Klein
[01:07:36.780] - Jack Bettio
Okay. So, you know, all the people that I know and came across my years pretty much.
[01:07:46.350] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I'd say so. But that's one of the great things that rock crawling has given me is friendships.
[01:07:55.820] - Jack Bettio
[01:07:58.540] - Big Rich Klein
There's nothing no other thing that I've done in my life where everybody is so close, even if you don't know each other, right?
[01:08:08.720] - Jack Bettio
If you're a gear head, you're my friend. That's all that amounts to because you just look at the relationships that have blossomed out of this. And it's all been through being a gear head or something involved with cars or competition or something like that. Relationships that are just priceless.
[01:08:28.950] - Big Rich Klein
True. Very, very true.
[01:08:32.140] - Jack Bettio
Koh, did you interview Tom?
[01:08:35.170] - Big Rich Klein
I have tried to set up an appointment with Tom. He's on my list. Guys that are on my list, like Tracy Jordan, Jason Paule.
[01:08:46.150] - Jack Bettio
[01:08:47.020] - Big Rich Klein
[01:08:49.800] - Jack Bettio
Ken will be a prize. And he comes up with some of the greatest one liner that you'll ever hear.
[01:08:59.920] - Big Rich Klein
That is true. And then those Dang short that he always wore.
[01:09:03.520] - Jack Bettio
We called them underwear.
[01:09:09.310] - Big Rich Klein
Pretty close. Yeah.
[01:09:11.410] - Jack Bettio
[01:09:13.180] - Big Rich Klein
So then you went and did new rock, and then you got involved with the super crawl events, and you rock. Is that correct? Did you go to Vegas and do the events there?
[01:09:27.240] - Jack Bettio
[01:09:28.140] - Big Rich Klein
[01:09:29.700] - Jack Bettio
That was the hotel there. What the heck was that hotel? It was the back parking lot.
[01:09:35.430] - Big Rich Klein
The Hyatt Regency Koh Hilton. It's the one right there at the Fairgrounds or not fair Ground, but convention center part. And it was the weekend before Sima started.
[01:09:48.370] - Jack Bettio
[01:09:51.480] - Big Rich Klein
So what was that experience like for you?
[01:09:54.480] - Jack Bettio
I wasn't very competitive in it that they were Henson. I'm still on, like, 35, and people were on 38 and 40s at that time. Well, maybe not so much. 40s, but they were on 37 and 38, and we were just not competitive. Nothing. In fact, I think that's the one they had that high climb.
[01:10:25.840] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. They called it the Matterhorn, I think.
[01:10:28.340] - Jack Bettio
Yes, the Matterhorn. That's it. Boy, you got a better minimum than I do. That's for sure.
[01:10:33.220] - Big Rich Klein
It's only because I've been doing these podcasts.
[01:10:37.620] - Jack Bettio
[01:10:38.620] - Big Rich Klein
It's fresher in my memory.
[01:10:41.490] - Jack Bettio
But that was pretty frigging scary to me, right.
[01:10:47.330] - Big Rich Klein
Those manmade courses, you could make them super extreme where you wouldn't think about putting people on those kind of courses with all the natural stuff?
[01:10:55.890] - Jack Bettio
No. And the one in Indianapolis or Cleveland. They had one like that, too. And Charlie Melcher was the first guy that ever got up it the contractor owns a property and then the town shut them down or something. You had an event there.
[01:11:11.080] - Big Rich Klein
I do remember that they were.
[01:11:13.960] - Jack Bettio
Like, three big sewer pipes at the top. And Charlie Melcher was the first guy that ever made that, didn't I thought he was a little much.
[01:11:24.010] - Big Rich Klein
[01:11:28.270] - Jack Bettio
[01:11:29.950] - Big Rich Klein
I knew, right? Charlie got to love him. Yeah.
[01:11:35.280] - Jack Bettio
Absolutely. He'd give you the shirt off his back.
[01:11:38.480] - Big Rich Klein
Absolutely. We bought a boat my wife and I to live on in the off season. And the first thing I did is I made a list of things that I needed to fix or replace, and I called Charlie, and I said, okay, here, I want to order these things through you because I always believe in trying to help the businesses of my friends.
[01:12:02.680] - Jack Bettio
[01:12:03.490] - Big Rich Klein
Especially if they're on the outside of if the business is outside of offroad, I'd rather buy from somebody I know, then buy from Amazon or, you know, anybody else. I mean, it's just it's so impersonal. And it's all about helping friends absolutely agree with that concept.
[01:12:27.160] - Jack Bettio
So even if you had to pay a little bit more, it's just support it. Support.
[01:12:34.520] - Big Rich Klein
Yes. I wish people would do that more throughout their life.
[01:12:41.290] - Jack Bettio
No question about it.
[01:12:43.620] - Big Rich Klein
I know that the convenience of things showing up at your front step the next day or the same day like Amazon does. But everything that they've done to build that business has affected everybody else's business that does the same thing. Absolutely. Because they have so much buying power. It's insane.
[01:13:03.860] - Jack Bettio
But, you know, as big as you know, Amazon could be. Do you know who's even bigger than Amazon? And I found this to be? And I researched it to find out if it was true. Walmart is bigger than Amazon.
[01:13:17.300] - Big Rich Klein
I know that they're getting more into the online stuff, but they also have, but they also have the brick and mortar store, so I could see that when you put it all together.
[01:13:28.860] - Jack Bettio
I couldn't believe that in the beginning until I researched it and found out that it was true. I just thought that that Amazon was humongous compared to Walmart.
[01:13:39.300] - Big Rich Klein
I guess an overall sales, they probably they probably are. I know, when Sam Walton died, Koh was like the richest man. And then he you Koh. The family broke it up, broke up the business or broke up the ownership. That like the four, the wife and then the four, three kids or whatever. How many it was ended up being like Koh in the top. All four of them ended up being in, like, the top six or seven in money earnings. You know, Worldwide tells you something about what Walton built.
[01:14:22.790] - Jack Bettio
Look at Fred Smith. His cousin is my next door neighbor in Aspen, Colorado.
[01:14:30.000] - Big Rich Klein
[01:14:31.150] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. I mean, there's a guy that came from Nothing and multi Zillionaire.
[01:14:37.320] - Big Rich Klein
Now, that's amazing. It really is. So how often do you get out to Colorado?
[01:14:44.390] - Jack Bettio
Not as often as they want, but Barbara gets out at least six weeks a year. She goes out two weeks at a time during ski. I haven't skied in five or six years now, but I've got enough things to do here, right. But we've had that place since the eight, you know, the early 1980. I think we bought that.
[01:15:06.430] - Big Rich Klein
Right. So getting back to the rock crawling and offroad you competed it at Super Crawls and the Rock events. And then you started doing our We Rock events as we pushed east. And then you said you got in. Did you ever enter and race in Koh?
[01:15:28.820] - Jack Bettio
No, Koh. I think they were just starting at Paragon. I think they had one or two races there, and it just didn't interest me. The high speed tearing up of equipment, that's all I could see.
[01:15:49.500] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I agree.
[01:15:52.950] - Jack Bettio
It's a completely different way of racing because there was just too much carnage in what what satisfaction got out of racing. That was my opinion. But, you know, it just didn't interest me.
[01:16:11.650] - Big Rich Klein
So in those early days, when we were talking about the the first Quadra tech team you had, it was you, Charlie, and were there other drivers involved with that team?
[01:16:26.290] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. There was three of us.
[01:16:29.350] - Big Rich Klein
Alright. And then they cut the funding and then they picked up somebody else that was willing to do it for less.
[01:16:36.300] - Jack Bettio
Well, not so much. That is the owner of Quadrant Christmas and a friend of mine that ran the show. But Chris said that they want to do with internal. They had enough people that wanted to compete and their own team that worked for them. I think that was the falling out of an outside team compared to having employees building their own team from within.
[01:17:07.700] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Alright. That makes sense.
[01:17:09.930] - Jack Bettio
It kind of made sense business wise to have their own people, right?
[01:17:15.360] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. Promote within.
[01:17:18.650] - Jack Bettio
[01:17:21.500] - Big Rich Klein
So when you decided to retire, which was like 2008, I believe, from off roading. Yes.
[01:17:30.190] - Jack Bettio
2008. We had just finished first place. And I think there was a Rash Creek. And I said that's it I'm 68. Time to go.
[01:17:45.900] - Big Rich Klein
Was it just the physical wear and tear on the body because the rollovers and stuff, or was it you know, about them? Everybody suffers them end over end at Indiana Rush Creek.
[01:18:06.500] - Jack Bettio
Well, I had one that was $26,000 in medical bills. Well, that was the helicopter to the trauma center and then the trauma center. That was $26,000.
[01:18:22.490] - Big Rich Klein
That gets into that budget.
[01:18:25.470] - Jack Bettio
Yes. Let the young kids do it.
[01:18:32.170] - Big Rich Klein
Since then, you've been doing your storage units?
[01:18:38.170] - Jack Bettio
Well, I've got eleven street rods now.
[01:18:41.690] - Big Rich Klein
Eleven Street Rod.
[01:18:43.400] - Jack Bettio
[01:18:44.480] - Big Rich Klein
[01:18:45.500] - Jack Bettio
If you ever get out east here, I'd be happy to show them to you. I've got a big shop. I got a machine. So I went back to school when I was probably ten years ago. I went to Machinist school here at Lake Curse at the Navy Air Station. They had a course for machines. And I knew the machine shop, a friend of mine that owns it. He gave me a letter of employment and you could do it through Ocean County VoTech. You could get into the school here at Lake Stave letter station.
[01:19:20.790] - Jack Bettio
So it was a four year course that I took for Machining. So now I have my own machine shop.
[01:19:26.000] - Big Rich Klein
Nice. So you're doing all the stuff yourself or majority of it instead of with these hot rods?
[01:19:36.010] - Jack Bettio
[01:19:36.950] - Big Rich Klein
So what kind of can you give us kind of a general rundown of what you got?
[01:19:43.580] - Jack Bettio
I've got a 26 model Doctors Coop, which is very rare. All model T coops were five window. I got a three window and they save $20 by getting a three window coup. So I've got that with a Chevy the eight in it. I've got a 29 pick up with Chevy Vated. I got a 33 Roadster with V eight. I've got I've got the original Jeep that I built for 2000. King of the Hammers. I've got a 500 cubic inch Cadillac fuel objected motor in that. And I still have that.
[01:20:29.270] - Jack Bettio
I built that back in the Eighties.
[01:20:32.330] - Big Rich Klein
[01:20:32.690] - Jack Bettio
Several. I've got a 32 Vicky. I've got a 32 Satan. They're all street rods. They're all chassis transmissions, V Motors, right. Do you ever get out of east?
[01:20:56.830] - Big Rich Klein
Actually, I do. We were doing events up into Pennsylvania. I haven't done. I didn't do them last year, the year before or this year because of. Well, I guess I did do it in 2020. I didn't do it in 21. The interest wasn't there. The guys are trying to get guys in that what I would term more. The Northeast to travel has been a little difficult. So Han sure has been putting on some events out there, and everybody's been participating in those, which I think is great because at least the rock crawling competitions haven't died in that area, but we are looking at events in that area again.
[01:21:46.320] - Jack Bettio
Well, you got to play safe. If you've ever come out, I'd be more than happy to put you up.
[01:21:51.740] - Big Rich Klein
That sounds great. We'll make that happen, even if it's just one of our magazine tours, because I'm running a magazine now as well.
[01:22:00.730] - Jack Bettio
What do you do in your spare time?
[01:22:05.620] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, I don't even watch TV. Really. I do whatever Shelley would like me to do.
[01:22:12.820] - Jack Bettio
Now, that was a perfect answer. Boy, I'm proud of you.
[01:22:16.760] - Big Rich Klein
She'll get a kick out of that when she does her does her part of this podcast. I do editing and then she goes through and does the transcript. So doing the hot rods. Now, do you have a project? Are they a constant working on the project, or do you have a project that you're working on right now?
[01:22:38.160] - Jack Bettio
Nothing in particular. The business is keeping me pretty busy. I just got a new tenant from Shark Tank, so it's probably a third of the building that they're taking over. Businesses kept me a lot more busy than I want to be. Let's put it that way. I'm 80 years old now, and I just want do nothing compared to doing this everyday stuff.
[01:23:09.250] - Big Rich Klein
So I get it.
[01:23:12.740] - Jack Bettio
This type of business is very rewarding to the point that it's not something that you got to be 8 hours a day or six days a week or whatever. It's by appointment only. And like that gentleman that just called, he called two days ago to pick up an application and he's going to Afghanistan. He's in the military and he wants to start a car outside. And I said, fine. You know, that's what the interruption in when we got. He just came. But I told him I said if he wants to fill out the application on on the Internet, you can it's under Ridgeway lock up.
[01:23:51.200] - Jack Bettio
So, you know, they can do that. It's nothing that I have to spend a lot of time at. That's kind of what I'm looking forward to.
[01:24:00.960] - Big Rich Klein
Interesting. I get it. Try to a lot of people call it that mailbox money. Yes, things just happen and you don't have to work them every day. All day.
[01:24:16.530] - Jack Bettio
[01:24:18.220] - Big Rich Klein
That's how our little hotel is.
[01:24:20.460] - Jack Bettio
Yeah. This business is like that. There's not a lot of attention that has to be paid. Person pays the rent on time or they pay by the year. You give them a discount and you don't see them again. They can come and go at your business hours where the gates are open and that's it nothing that you have to be. You know, it's a great business and you just screen the clientele very well in the beginning, and it kind of runs itself.
[01:24:52.740] - Big Rich Klein
So you said that you have a tenant in there, a newer tenant that was that was on Shark Tank. Can you say who that was?
[01:25:01.980] - Jack Bettio
I don't know if I'm at Liberty to do that.
[01:25:05.900] - Big Rich Klein
[01:25:07.090] - Jack Bettio
I can tell you. Laurie is the backer.
[01:25:11.990] - Big Rich Klein
[01:25:14.160] - Jack Bettio
I just don't know if it's proper if I would disclose that, right?
[01:25:20.450] - Big Rich Klein
No, I understand. I understand that that show has always interested me. I don't know.
[01:25:28.330] - Jack Bettio
I love it. I like Mark Cuban the best. He sits back and analyzes everything and he's my idol. Let's put it that way.
[01:25:38.620] - Big Rich Klein
I think that if I was ever on that that show and he showed the interest, it wouldn't even be. I would take a lot smaller deal from Mark than I would from the others just to work with that guy. Yes. Yes.
[01:25:54.260] - Jack Bettio
I mean, have you ever researched any of his background? He came from nothing, selling papers as a kid to going through College and doing things that he's a miraculous person. And there's a lot of people that don't like him, but he's a great businessman. He analyzes stuff ahead of time that you don't even think of.
[01:26:14.980] - Big Rich Klein
[01:26:15.440] - Jack Bettio
And I know I've always admired him. I mean, I I like his his way of doing business.
[01:26:21.660] - Big Rich Klein
I agree. I agree. There's a lot of guys out there that have television shows that I would never do business with. I won't even. I won't even buy things from businesses they own.
[01:26:35.160] - Jack Bettio
Yeah, I agree with you.
[01:26:38.560] - Big Rich Klein
But anyway, so what is next for Jack?
[01:26:45.130] - Jack Bettio
Live and learn and die and forget it all.
[01:26:47.840] - Big Rich Klein
Live and learn and die and forget it all.
[01:26:50.380] - Jack Bettio
[01:26:53.820] - Big Rich Klein
80 years has been good to you.
[01:26:58.020] - Jack Bettio
[01:26:59.460] - Big Rich Klein
That's great to hear.
[01:27:01.460] - Jack Bettio
I'm not involved in politics, and I just read what's going on today. It's way beyond my comprehension.
[01:27:11.590] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah, that would be a whole other genre of podcast getting into politics.
[01:27:19.350] - Jack Bettio
But it goes nowhere. It's like nothing religion because there's two sides of every story. And who's right? I don't know.
[01:27:29.900] - Big Rich Klein
[01:27:31.510] - Jack Bettio
I'm not qualified. I.
[01:27:36.210] - Big Rich Klein
Get it. Neither am I. I'm so glad I turned down the chance to get into politics when I was young.
[01:27:42.120] - Jack Bettio
Yeah, well, that's the way I always felt. Because what do with this? And the other hand is jealous. And the other hand is going to do this one now and I want to be away from any of that. I've never, never been part of it and then never intend to be a part of it.
[01:27:59.430] - Big Rich Klein
Sounds great. Let's talk family a little bit. You had your first wife who you put through school and to be a lawyer. And then she sued you for divorce.
[01:28:11.750] - Jack Bettio
That's my second wife.
[01:28:13.570] - Big Rich Klein
That was your second wife?
[01:28:15.220] - Jack Bettio
Yes. My first wife has passed away. Alright. My second wife.
[01:28:20.020] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. Second wife. Alright. And then now you're with your third.
[01:28:25.980] - Jack Bettio
[01:28:26.470] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. And her name was I know you just mentioned it.
[01:28:29.640] - Jack Bettio
[01:28:30.690] - Big Rich Klein
Barbara. And how long have you guys been married?
[01:28:33.300] - Jack Bettio
[01:28:34.540] - Big Rich Klein
40 years. Okay.
[01:28:36.800] - Jack Bettio
40 years in January.
[01:28:39.040] - Big Rich Klein
[01:28:39.800] - Jack Bettio
Well, I'm still getting it nowhere.
[01:28:44.640] - Big Rich Klein
Shelley. And it's our second time around. Each and I had 26 years, and she had 25 years of experience. And what we realized is that we figured out what we didn't want, not what we wanted.
[01:29:00.990] - Jack Bettio
[01:29:03.140] - Big Rich Klein
So we talked about all our deal breakers before we actually physically met. We met online through E Harmony, and I never would have met her else wise. When I became single, there was nobody within my circle of influence that I was interested in and anybody that I would have been interested in and was already married to a friend of mine. So, of course, that wasn't going to work. So I went on to E Harmony, thinking, I'm going to pay E Harmony to do their thing, because the people that other people that are on there are paying as well.
[01:29:39.480] - Big Rich Klein
And if they're paying, they're going to be a little more serious.
[01:29:42.300] - Jack Bettio
That's a good thought. I never even thought of it that way. But yes, you're right.
[01:29:47.000] - Big Rich Klein
Because even though I was on the non paid sites, maybe looking for a hook up, deep down, I probably. Well, Shelley calls me a serial monogamist. I guess that's not a bad thing. No.
[01:30:04.220] - Jack Bettio
But it's a very comprehensive description.
[01:30:08.770] - Big Rich Klein
Yes. But one of the things that we figured out that we didn't what we didn't want. And we discuss those things. And so our relationship has been really close. We're together, basically, to see every once in a while. There'll be a week where she goes for a few days, where she goes off and does something with one of her daughters. But it works out. And we're able to spend that much time together without without conflict.
[01:30:36.290] - Jack Bettio
Yes. Exactly. That's what Barbara and I are. She's going to her 50th class reunion for nurses. She taught nursing at the Mayo Clinic. So this is the fifth reunion they're having, and she's leaving next week for that. Okay.
[01:30:56.380] - Big Rich Klein
Awesome. Well, Jack, I want to say, well, before I say goodbye, are there any stories from any events about, say, Charlie or anybody else that you want to share with us, that that you think people would be interested in hearing nothing, you know, outrageous, but just something fun.
[01:31:20.530] - Jack Bettio
I don't think so because they were all good events to me. And they were just so there was nothing that would stand out. But it was my enjoyment the whole time. So I really couldn't pick out anyone one thing that I enjoyed every bit of it. I mean, good, bad and different. And I just learned that I enjoyed it all, and I wouldn't change a thing of anything that's ever happened. It's been it's a long progress, you know? It went way too fast. That's all I can say.
[01:31:58.980] - Big Rich Klein
I understand that this last 20 years, 21 years that I've been in the business end of it has been sometimes when I'm looking, when I look back on it, it's like, wow, that happened. How long ago? And then you realise.
[01:32:15.700] - Jack Bettio
When did that happen? Did that really happen? I know every day I'd say that I go, but I never thought that way before. It was just enjoy. It was going along. But now he go, Holy mackerel.
[01:32:29.320] - Big Rich Klein
[01:32:32.650] - Jack Bettio
Well, well, listen, I just want to make sure that you understand you have an invitation anytime. Put you up here. Be happy to do that. So if you ever get out east here again, you got a place to bump out.
[01:32:48.700] - Big Rich Klein
That's. Excellent, Jack. Thank you so much. I missed you. I can't say that we were really close back in those days. There were things were so busy during the events and stuff, but the friendships that I've built, being able to sit down and talk like this brings us full circle. And next time we get out East, I will give you a call and we'll take you up on that. And we'll have a conversation where we're actually face to face.
[01:33:18.230] - Jack Bettio
We may have a good bottle of wine or beer or something and just sit and reminisce. Now that we're old, you can do that.
[01:33:28.320] - Big Rich Klein
It's true. It's always easier to look back on things when they've got a little dust on them. You might say yes.
[01:33:37.220] - Jack Bettio
Yes. And I really appreciate going back through Memory road with you. I had a lot of good times.
[01:33:45.540] - Big Rich Klein
Yeah. That was the golden era, I guess.
[01:33:50.260] - Jack Bettio
[01:33:52.590] - Big Rich Klein
[01:33:54.090] - Jack Bettio
I'll be looking forward to seeing you.
[01:33:56.570] - Big Rich Klein
Okay. I'll talk to you later. Thank you so much.
[01:33:59.160] - Jack Bettio
A good day. Thank you.
[01:34:00.710] - Big Rich Klein
Bye bye. If you enjoy these podcasts, please give us a rating. Share some feedback with us via Facebook or Instagram and share our link among your friends who might be like minded. Well, that brings this episode to an end. Hope you enjoyed it. We'll catch you next week with conversations with Big rich. Thank you very much.