Keeping the Stoke alive at Total Chaos, Nicole Pitell on Episode 197

Nicole Pitell brings her own brand of hype to every conversation, she shares the inside scoop of Total Chaos to the podcast. Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

6:12 – at the end of the day, it’s what makes each of us individually happy is what’s going to elevate you and take you to the next level

12:05 – I want noted for the record, I suck at driving in mud             

19:47 – our product line comes from having to build better parts for our friends who were pitting for us 

25:44 – I think you need good competition to elevate your innovation and your passion

32:50 – they just let me go full stupid down south of the border

41:33 – An all women’s? That sounds horrible was the first thing I said to her.

46:03 – I really like to have fun in life, no bad days

55:12 – I don’t hang around with people that aren’t motivated, inspired, and driven every day

Special thanks to 4low Magazine and Maxxis Tires for support and sponsorship of this podcast.

Be sure to listen on your favorite podcast app.

All Automotive with Matt Clawson
Automotive related topics. Anything from owning an repair facility to racing. Anything...

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Transcript

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[00:00:01.040] - 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:45.280] - 

Whether you're crawling the Red Rocks of Moab or hauling your toys to the trail, Maxxis has the tires you can trust for performance and durability. Four wheels or two, Maxxis tires are the choice of champions because they know that whether for work or play, for fun or competition, Maxxis tires deliver. Choose Maxxis. Tread victoriously.

[00:01:13.020] - 

Have you seen 4Low magazine yet? 4low magazine is a high-quality, well-written, four-wheel drive-focused magazine for the enthusiast market. If you still love the idea of a printed magazine, something to save and read at any time, 4LOW is the magazine for you. 4Low cannot be found in stores, but you can have it delivered to your home or place of business. Visit 4lOWmagazine. Com to order your subscription today.

[00:01:40.290] - Big Rich Klein

On today's episode of Conversations, I have the pleasure to interview a woman whose company's name is the most fitting description of all time. She is fast-paced, has a larger-than-life personality, very intense, but at the same time, kind, smart, and definitely fun. Total Chaos Fabrications owner, Nicole Pitell. Thanks for coming on today.

[00:02:03.580] - Nicole Pitell

Thanks for having me, Rich.

[00:02:05.420] - Big Rich Klein

It's so good to talk to you. We talked a little bit on the phone a couple of weeks ago, and just shortly after the Rebelle, but how were your holidays?

[00:02:19.190] - Nicole Pitell

Our holidays were mellow. We shut down the company for two weeks every year. The team works really hard. We grind long days. We work four-tens here at Total Chaos. So Every Christmas, I shut the company down for two weeks. Matt and I had a staycation. We stayed home and did some local riding, and Matt hunted. But a lot of the crew traveled and saw family. One gentleman went to Costa Rica. So, yeah, good stuff. Just something that I find I want to do total chaos a little different than everybody else in this industry. And I think locking the doors and letting everybody turn it off for a couple of weeks is something that's super healthy for mind, body, and spirit.

[00:03:05.170] - Big Rich Klein

Right. That makes total sense. It really does. And being that you're the owner with your husband, Matt, that you can do that.

[00:03:14.800] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah, it's our corporate America, like we like to say around here.

[00:03:19.940] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. So let's start at the very beginning. And where were you born and raised?

[00:03:26.800] - Nicole Pitell

I am born and raised in Southern California birth certificate names, Westminster. But I grew up in a small town called Lake Elsinore, California. It's bred a lot of high profile fabricators and moto riders in the '80s in the '90s, for sure. And I moved to Corona right out of high school, and I've been planted in Corona, California ever since.

[00:03:53.660] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. Our daughter, Halley, went to school there for performing arts in Corona.

[00:04:01.940] - Nicole Pitell

Anyway. Yeah, they've got a big performing arts school.

[00:04:04.290] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, they do. What were those early years like for you, family-wise? I mean, did you guys do a lot of outdoor stuff, or what was the family into?

[00:04:16.590] - Nicole Pitell

You know, a lot of people don't actually know this about me, but I have never met my dad. So I was raised by my grandma and my grandpa, and my mom and I rented a room from them. So I was taken care of by a deaf great grandma and my grandma and my grandpa, and they bought five acres in Lake Elsinore. In order to keep me busy and out of the house, I remember I was in elementary school and my mom bought me an ATC, which then led to a CR 65 and then a Honda 85. I remember growing up on two wheels. They really pushed me. I raced BMX as a kid, so My first passion and love is two wheel sports, bicycle related stuff and moto. Then I played travel soccer, travel softball, lettered in high school, tried the team sports, but it really wasn't my thing. I'm more of a self motivated independent style athlete. I went back to a motorcycle when I could afford one in college, and that's about when I meet Matt. Matt was the one that actually got me into the sport of off-road racing. My mom, I had bought a 1989 Toyota truck with a trail disaster kit.

[00:05:40.600] - Nicole Pitell

Good old Trail Master. I thought I was Ivan Stewart. We proved those drop down brackets to not be worthy of Nicole's skinny pedal. But yeah, so I bought a truck for my first vehicle, and I think that planted me in the sport. Then met Matt, and the rest is history. I fell in love with it.

[00:06:04.730] - Big Rich Klein

Right. And so those early years, you were brought up tomboyish. I mean, it sounds like.

[00:06:12.490] - Nicole Pitell

100 %. Right. 100 %. In an era where it wasn't accepted, to be totally honest, I was picked on a lot through elementary school because I was always one of the first people to get picked on the kickball team because I had an awesome right leg from playing soccer. And you just got used to it. It's one thing I try to inspire young women today. There's always going to be people that don't agree with your decisions or agree with your choices. As long as you're doing what you love, keep doing it. At the end of the day, it's what makes each of us individually happy is what's going to elevate you and take you to the next level.

[00:06:58.660] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Absolutely. And so what student were you? Were you one of those that was always looking out the window wanting to get outside, or were you pretty studious?

[00:07:13.740] - Nicole Pitell

I sucked until I actually transferred to Upper Division in college, and I made sure it was on my dime in my time. It wasn't until I really got to college that I started to see A's. I drew I do a lot in the books. I was constantly thinking about PE, getting on my bicycle after school. But no, I didn't... ADD wasn't something that was really talked about in the '80s and early '90s, and I never realized why I couldn't retain certain things, everything that I read, basically. So I think I got a tick of ADD, but I really he wasn't studious until upper division college years.

[00:08:04.130] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, fair enough. And so I take it that drama or band or anything like that was not on your wheel house?

[00:08:16.340] - Nicole Pitell

Oh, dude, I tried the clarinet. I sucked so that we lasted two or three weeks, and we had to return the rental musical instrument.

[00:08:30.550] - Big Rich Klein

I get it.

[00:08:32.130] - Nicole Pitell

I got an A for effort on trying, though. No, I mean, my family, they always supported me in anything I wanted to do. My grandma always wanted me to be a tennis player, and that just I needed jump. I wanted to jump. I wanted to go fast. I wanted to catch air. I was constantly crashing. I remember one summer as a kid, I went down on one elbow three times, and the scab never healed. And my family was like, You can't keep crashing on this elbow. You're mauling your body. You're maiming yourself. I'm like, No big deal, man. You know, those are the memories that I have. We built some jumps in the backyard and all the local boys would come over, and we'd be jumping, and we had a pool. Everybody would swim at our house. Honestly, I never played video games, and I was always outside.

[00:09:31.940] - Big Rich Klein

Nice. Okay. That's fitting then for the rest of your life, at least as far as I know. But we'll get into that right now. So let's talk about college. We know that high school, you were pretty independent and were more interested in, like a lot of us, in getting outside and getting in the dirt, going fast, jumping, things like that, you said. What drove you to college?

[00:10:03.780] - Nicole Pitell

I got a job at a Vans shoe store right out of high school, and I enrolled in community college. I took two classes and failed one. I looked at myself in the mirror one morning and said, You are really going nowhere. Being independently motivated, it was like, Okay, this is time. I got a job at a local Toyota dealership as the receptionist, and I realized that I had worked at Stater Brothers. I had a job at Toyota. I liked the car aspect, but I absolutely could not handle the dealership life. But I met a lot of people, and one person that And the one that came toward me was the controller at Bud Gordon's dealership, Quality Toyota. I took a liking to accounting, managerial and financial accounting. My second semester in college, I had an instructor that really captured. I was like, Okay, I think business might be a path that would be fitting for me. I complete community college, and I decided to transfer to Upper Division. I transferred to Cal Poly Pomona, and I majored in business administration with a concentration in sports marketing. My goal was to get into the motorcross industry.

[00:11:26.880] - Nicole Pitell

Matt and I were dabbling, working out of a garage, and the name Total Chaos, like doing a startup Matt had already gone on his own my junior year of college, and I was helping him. But the plan was never for me to actually become the director of operations at Total Chaos Fabrication. It was like destiny and the way the chips fell and things just started to click, and I never looked for a job.

[00:11:59.040] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. Okay. How did you meet Matt? How did that come about?

[00:12:05.700] - Nicole Pitell

My senior year in high school, because I had that Toyota, which, by the way, I want noted for the record, I suck in driving in mud. I absolutely, like I suck. Plane English. The first week I had the truck, I ran out of talent up at a place called Bear Creek, which was local, where we grew up, Wildomar Riding Trails, and went through a mud it hydroplaned and went up on its side. So I rolled my truck on its side within the first seven days of owning it. My mom wanted to kill me. Absolutely kill me. The joke now is that that was the start of my future career. But I had that truck, and there was a girl in my senior psychology class named Jill, and she was dating an older dude that was racing, score, desert racing at the time. The company was Slam Jam Racing. Anybody that's been around since the '90s, that might ring a bell. He raced a Toyota, and Matt was one of his chase guys. And Jill was like, Hey, Scott can get you a discount on tires. So I gave Scott some money to get me some BF Goodrich tires.

[00:13:20.520] - Nicole Pitell

And I went over to Scott's house one day on my way home from the beach, and Matt was in the driveway, and I happened to be in a bathing suit, tops and board shorts, walking into Scott's house. And he said, Hey, you want to go to a desert race? And he's laying under this car, and I'm like, God, you're old. He wasn't that old. He was only four and a half years older than me. But when you're in your late teens, he was old. That's pretty much the story of the first time I connect with Matt. He invited me to a desert race, and I actually stood him up. I can say that publicly because we We still joke about it. But basically, Jill got me connected with Matt, and then I ran into him again a couple months later, and there was something really... He's a real quiet, introverted guy, and I'm super outgoing So that was attractive to me. Like, man, what makes this dude tick? He doesn't care about partying. He's super focused on this truck thing. And we just started hanging out. And hanging out meant handing him 14 millimeter wrenches in the garage and learning about suspension, to be honest, because that's where he spent all of his time.

[00:14:38.330] - Nicole Pitell

So Matt left Slam Jam Racing and decided to start his own race team that was named Total Chaos Racing, which is where total chaos fabrication comes from. And it was like a group of the younger guys from Scott's team chose to follow Matt, and anyone that's been in Desert racing or in any divorce, you know how that goes. There was this rivalry now between Slam Jam and total chaos racing. It's funny to relive that era and to go back and revisit it because in the very beginning, we were just early 20-year-old kids chasing dreams and wanting to go race trucks. That's truly how this company started.

[00:15:28.930] - Big Rich Klein

And that's the way it It's out of the passion.

[00:15:32.420] - Nicole Pitell

100 %. To this day, I wake up motivated every morning without an alarm clock. I was up at five o'clock this morning, actually working on a rebel rally, a pre-run article that we're working on. And yeah, I love what I do. We all love it here. Everyone at Total Chaos. We're here for the stoke of the sport still. And I I think that that's something that's invaluable with this team that we assembled and created.

[00:16:06.780] - Big Rich Klein

With you and Matt and going out to the desert racing, he started a business. How long did it take for you guys to get married?

[00:16:22.770] - Nicole Pitell

Oh, you're you on it all. So this is another... I mean, I I think it's important for people to just know how I tick, because some people say I'm crazy. I think I'm pretty normal. We were together and a lot of his family said that we would not have a healthy marriage to work.

[00:16:45.880] - Big Rich Klein

I've heard that.

[00:16:47.550] - Nicole Pitell

You know, and for some people, it's absolutely a difficult thing to do. But I spend every day with my best friend and have built a career. I've built a career for others. It's amazing. I mean, we're truly living the dream of two kids, aspiring to just be our own bosses. But we got married on Friday the 13th, 2007, and it was a shotgun wedding because we'd been together 13 years. It was like, It's not broken, don't fix it. Everybody, again, I still had those thoughts that everybody said, It changes when you get married. No, nothing changed for us. Honestly, at that point in time, it was just a piece of paper. We had already been through any of the options of turbulence in a relationship.

[00:17:49.720] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Right. And when you're working together, living together, playing together, that 24/7 thing, You figure that all out really quick.

[00:18:04.750] - Nicole Pitell

Oh, absolutely. Matt no longer rides motorcycles anymore because of his back, and he's always He's always been a hunter, but Matt's recreational passion is hunting. Bird, big game. He has his activities that he does with his group of friends. Then I have a great group of people that I go ride moto with. So that does still create great dinner table conversation, but we both still push each other in the sports that we love. And then, I mean, as I heard, we've never even argued. We don't argue about financials. The only thing we've ever argued about is him being an R&D and not writing stuff down. Because he's a caveman, and it took a lot of years for me to take what was in his head and put it on paper. But to be totally honest, that is the only thing we have ever argued about.

[00:19:11.540] - Big Rich Klein

He's a caveman. That's awesome.

[00:19:13.910] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah, we call CAD Concrete Aided Design.

[00:19:19.630] - Big Rich Klein

A lot of chalk marks on the ground.

[00:19:21.320] - Nicole Pitell

I mean, I've heard Leduc coined the phrase to us, God, 15 years ago, We're imagineers. We raced a stock mini truck in Score Desert Racing, probably the most expensive class that you could race because you had to upgrade factory equipment, but you really couldn't upgrade anything.

[00:19:44.760] - Big Rich Klein

So So all you could do is add material.

[00:19:47.440] - Nicole Pitell

But what happened is we found weak links in vehicles, and our chase team all had Toyotas, but we raced a Nissan because that couldn't even afford a Toyota in his 20s. So we actually raced a Nissan truck. But the whole team that was helping us, we all drove '86 to '95 Toyotas. So that's where the very beginning of the product line comes from, as it comes from having to build some better parts for our friends who were pitting for us. And we learned a lot about original equipment manufacturers and their suspension designs. And we did a little bit of stuff for Nissan's in the beginning, but began specializing in Toyotas. And I think racing a stock mini truck and having to build parts around an OE platform that truly paved the way for what total chaos is that people know today.

[00:20:53.770] - Big Rich Klein

Right. Now, that makes total sense because your R&D is the racing. And, you know, And what I've come to realize in my 30 years on off road is that people may not want to race, but they want to look like or be like the racers. If they can get upgraded parts and make their truck look like a race truck, they are just happy.

[00:21:20.190] - Nicole Pitell

And they might only recreate one time a year. But if you're taking your wife who's scared to be in the middle of the desert, and that's common. I still hear it today. How do you go? You like to be out in the middle, and I absolutely love to be out in the middle of nowhere. And and spin 360 degrees and not see a building and not see a paved road. That is my happy place. That is why I worked so hard in the office to earn those rewarding days in the middle of nowhere.

[00:22:03.220] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, and when you take your significant other out in that a situation, you want to make sure you make it back because they don't always understand that stuff happens. And They don't want to be stuck out there.

[00:22:18.540] - Nicole Pitell

100 %. And if you're taking your kids, too. So building reliable and dependable parts to where even if you're recreating that one time a year, you have confidence and comfort that your vehicle is not going to fail. Your wife is going to have a great time. Your kids are going to totally enjoy a day with the family. I mean, a saying here, a family that off roads together stays together. Right.

[00:22:46.440] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, very true. Let's jump in to take a total chaos fabrication right now. And what would you say is your number one selling product?

[00:23:00.540] - Nicole Pitell

The tubular Uniball upper control arm, the stock length version, and not many people in this industry know, that was actually an afterthought to a long travel kit that Matt designed. One of our competitors had come to market first on the '96 to '04 Tacoma long travel kit, but they designed their suspension system to be single shock. It was not four-wheel drive, and it had a ball joint joint upper control arm. And on our R&D vehicle, when we disassembled the factory ball joint, we realized it was maxing itself out. So we spent five months R&Ding Total chaos is '96 to '04 Tacoma long travel kit, and Matt doubled down. He launched the first three and a half inch long travel kit, the retained four wheel drive, incorporated dual 2.5 shocks, and was an upper unible. In the design process for that suspension system, he gets up out of bed at 2:00 in the morning, one morning, and it's the week of Off-Road Expo. It was like three days before Off-Road Expo, to be honest. I said, What are you doing? He goes, I have an idea. I'm like, Well, what are you doing? You're putting on clothes.

[00:24:26.050] - Nicole Pitell

He's all, I'm going to the shop. I'm like, Oh, dude. Okay. Hey, I'll see you in a couple of hours. Yes. And I get to the shop at 9:00 that morning and there's a stock length Uniball raw upper control arm on his bench. And he goes, What do you think? I go, What am I looking at? And he goes, We know that the ball joints are weak on this vehicle, so I needed to put something on the other side of the frame display, and I didn't want it blank. So I built a stock-length tubular upper control arm. Let's see what the public thinks. And we took that part to OfferDexpo. The long travel kit was all magazine-ready, powder-coated, and front frame displays are something that we're very... It's something we roll out to all our trade show booths and events. It's a tool that we use for events. And one side was raw with the stock length suspension, and the other side It was all the blinging brand new stuff in a long travel kit. And I remember that competitor walks up to us and says, Who the hell would buy this shit? I'm going to leave that competitor unnamed.

[00:25:44.880] - Nicole Pitell

Claimed because it became good versus evil on the long term scheme of things in this sport. And I think that you need good competition to elevate your innovation and your passion. And You know that they were the next ones to build a stop length tubular upper control arm.

[00:26:04.480] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:26:06.050] - Nicole Pitell

But that's just part of this sport. And you've heard the coined term, Rich, the highest form of flattery is imitation. Oh, yes. No, it's really not. But we keep telling ourselves that.

[00:26:19.620] - Big Rich Klein

You have to in this industry.

[00:26:21.940] - Nicole Pitell

The stock length tubular upper control arm with the Unible revolutionized. The pace, the shock manufacturers were definitely on board in that era. I feel so stoked to be part of the sport of off-road at a time where there are so many performance and advancements in a bolt-on space. I mean, look at shock technology just in the last decade. Look at your raptor that you get to drive. I mean, it's wild what even a vehicle off the lot now is capable of.

[00:27:06.290] - Big Rich Klein

Very true. My raptor is enhanced by those total chaos fabrication tubular arms.

[00:27:16.030] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah, that is the one product that we offer for every domestic vehicle application in the lighter version of the trucks. We don't do Dodge 2500s But we do Dodge, Chevy, Ford, Toyota, Nissan. What am I missing? I know I'm missing a couple. But yeah, I mean, GMC. It's a performance part that can truly just enhance the ride quality. It will enhance the ride quality when combined with a really good performance after market shock, for sure. Agree.

[00:28:02.290] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely agree. So let's talk about your off-roading racing career. You've done a number of things, not just on two wheels. Talk about how all that got started.

[00:28:19.730] - Nicole Pitell

In the very beginning, I actually didn't race at all. I managed the marketing program for Dan Vance, who was a very iconic driver that we sponsored for for about 12 years. He put total chaos on the map. He let us focus on building a brand, and he funded a majority of his race program. But I found pure enjoyment reverting back to my sports marketing and working with manufacturers in the industry and helping him with sponsors. In order for Matt to focus, again, on building the company, we had to sell his Nissan. Dan was the face of the company for a while, and I broke my back in 2009 in a motocross accident. I spent two months staring at a ceiling fan. Matt asked me to hang up the handlebars and the boots, that the sport was too dangerous. I told him if he built a race truck and let me race with him, that I would no longer ride a dirt bike. I think that was still in ICU. I want to make this clear. Because shortly after, I want to say it was The first week, I was at home having tears in my eyes saying to Matt, Please don't tell me to not ride dirt bikes again.

[00:29:39.060] - Nicole Pitell

I know this is crazy, but I can't wait to ride my motorcycle already. This is the first week. I think this is the athlete mindset that I was luckily born with because that recovery was long and difficult. It was a long three months just to even trying to get back to the shop and get moving. Matt completed the race truck to Race Vegas to Reno, and we split driving duties. But yeah, so that's basically how desert racing, the desert racing portion of it started. They had given me the opportunity to race powder puff for three years, and I went to Barstow and took three first-place finishes, and that was rad. I wanted something after that. So it seemed like best in the desert was we like the long distance stuff. It's really endurance. It's really physical. If you're going to spend that much money to race, you might as well go for the big dog. So every Vegas, Torino that we've entered, we've finished. Matt has a very meticulous mind, and so does the team that we surround ourselves with here. We are an extremely organized, well-tuned group of people. Being able to say that you have finished every race that you've entered and you do not have a DNF is probably something not a lot of people know about, but it's something we pride ourselves on.

[00:31:14.970] - Nicole Pitell

Oh, no, I take that back. I have one DNF, battle it prim, Jessie Combs and I rolled Little T when the steering rack seal failed. I do take that back. There's one DNF on Little T.

[00:31:27.370] - Big Rich Klein

Oh, wow. Okay.

[00:31:29.430] - Nicole Pitell

So But that was out of our control. It was just a component failure.

[00:31:35.320] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:31:36.440] - Nicole Pitell

Out of your control. And those do happen. I mean, if you're racing and you can't admit that you've had a component failure, unfortunately, in this sport, what we do, the speeds we run, the environments that we brutally punish these parts in. There's a lot of things that can go wrong, and sometimes it just happens. But yeah, that was That was one of the biggest crashes that I've ever had.

[00:32:03.820] - Big Rich Klein

So when you were injured and you said, Build me a truck, let me race, and you went and did Vegas to Reno, that was the first race after being injured?

[00:32:15.570] - Nicole Pitell

No, a powder puff. They put me in powder puff first to make me proof myself.

[00:32:21.080] - Big Rich Klein

And how long a time was that between the the accident and the race?

[00:32:26.300] - Nicole Pitell

Thirteen nine to 13. 2015 is when I to finally get the opportunity to go to the desert with Matt.

[00:32:34.100] - Big Rich Klein

So quite a few years. But you, you, you, you.

[00:32:37.680] - Nicole Pitell

But I had done powder puff three years prior to that.

[00:32:40.800] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. All right.

[00:32:42.970] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah. So 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, like four years. I was back on the motorcycle in eight months.

[00:32:49.270] - Big Rich Klein

But not racing?

[00:32:50.930] - Nicole Pitell

No, not racing the trucks. Most of my seat time, a lot of people don't know, we're rooted with a crew called Locos Mocos. We fix stuff for free. It was just a band of brothers scattered all over the United States. Just a group of people that wanted to go down to Mexico every San Felipe 250, 500, and Baja, 1,000. We'd pre-run for between 5 and 10 days. Then we'd go set up in the most gnarly remote location on the race course map, and we would run free pit service. We have wrenched on Hertz Ragland, be in the pits. We have had 11 cars, motorcycle riders, you name it. We eventually got subcontracted by Baha Pits for a period of years, where we would fuel Up to about 120 teams in certain locations. One of the most popular pits being at Coho Buzo Junction at the base of the summit on the Lakebed. But great time. A lot of my driving and experience, actually, Matt does not travel south of the border, so he would send me south to Mexico with the guys, and they would just let me go full stupid down south of the border.

[00:34:13.750] - Nicole Pitell

And I luckily, when you're down in Mexico, man, you really don't want anything to break. So you just learn to keep your equipment together. I think racing stock mini, that was the biggest lesson to come from competing in that class is we were so broke that we'd have to drive our race truck to to go race and then drive our race truck home. We couldn't even afford a trailer. I mean, that is how total chaos started. It was Top ramen, macaroni and cheese, and every paycheck going into getting to the next race six weeks later, man. It was an awesome, it was awesome days of the early '20s.

[00:34:56.660] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. That's But that builds character.

[00:35:03.410] - Nicole Pitell

Absolutely. Absolutely. It makes you appreciate a lot of the amenities that when people see us today, they have this perception that it's this huge footprint of a company, people always show up, You build all this here? That little building? Yeah, that little building, those few people. And yeah, I mean, we just We want to be efficient, we want to be lean, and we want to do everything right the first time. It's a hard path to forge. But once you get the ball in motion, I mean, there's five of us that are going to spend 19 years together this year. And I don't know a lot of companies in the sport of off road that could say that.

[00:35:54.410] - Big Rich Klein

That's for sure. That's for sure. So then did you ever get back into racing motorcycles?

[00:36:04.270] - Nicole Pitell

I did. My bucket list, I have this funny thing called the Chaos Bucket List, and there's a lot of people right now. Many people you know, by the way. And yes, I started racing Mammoth Motorcross. Elsinore Grand Prix was on a bucket list. And then World Vets became this target of mine because it's the infamous Glen Helen outdoor motocross track. I mean, nothing gets gnarlier than Glen Helen with its braking pumps and Mount St. Helen. And man, it's just awesome. So I do some local SRA events. I love my two wheels, and I love putting on my helmet. I just did a dual sport ride with Jimmy Lewis and Heather Lewis. Jimmy tortured Heather and I on a 100-mile Nevada sesh. That was pretty wild. We left Jimmy's shop, and he says, It's not a Jimmy Lewis ride unless we run out of gas, run out of daylight, or run out of energy. And we ran out of all three. It was awesome. But it was Heather's first day back after two complete knee replacements. I helped motivate her for the last year on working out and staying disciplined to getting back to her sport that she knew I know how impactful it could be to keep somebody motivated.

[00:37:36.530] - Nicole Pitell

And I promised her I wanted to be on one of her rides first day back, and I bombed up there and it was worth every minute. Every minute of it. It was a Jimmy Lewis torture test, so Rich, let me tell you.

[00:37:52.500] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, Jimmy's a master.

[00:37:56.260] - Nicole Pitell

Absolutely. After the desert racing opportunities with Matt, I really wanted something different. And that's how I meet Emily Miller. I actually took Morocco taco to Africa and competed in a rally in Morocco It was a women's navigational rally. The first year, I went with Jessie Combs. Then the second year, I went with Chrissy Bevis from the Rebell.

[00:38:25.330] - Big Rich Klein

This was all pre-Rebell?

[00:38:28.040] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah.

[00:38:29.310] - Big Rich Klein

Well, before the Rebell. How did you- The year Chrissy and I compete is the, I think, Emily's first year, 2016, if I'm correct.

[00:38:43.890] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah, 2016. I remember being in Spain, where we were shipping the car home from and having some phone calls with Emily. We had already started laying out the course for the first year. That's what I find complete stoke in now is scouting the rally with her and being really present in Mother Nature and trust in the total chaos equipment and just going out and helping her put everything together to build her game each year.

[00:39:23.400] - Big Rich Klein

We'll get to that here in just a little bit. How did you meet Jessie Combs?

[00:39:29.240] - Nicole Pitell

Jessie Combs? At an Off-Road Expo, I think. How did I meet Jessie? Jessie and Ian came by our booth at an Off-Road Expo, way back in the beginning days of off-road expo. We just connected and stayed in touch. And she's like, Hey, if you ever want to go racing, hit me up. I had raced Powder Puff with my Baja mentor's wife. Then When Matt gave me the green light to go race against the boys for battle at Prim, I asked Jessie. Actually, Jessie was going to race powder puff with me, and it was the year the government had the shutdown, and they weren't given their permits. So we had been testing to compete in powder puff together for my fourth year, and they canceled it. I talked Matt into letting me go race the Snore battle at Prim. So that was the first time he raced with me. We were running fifth place out of 80 guys in a pump gas. Nice. Doorbanger.

[00:40:39.070] - Big Rich Klein

And that shutdown was that. That shutdown was that because of the the accident that that California 200?

[00:40:46.900] - Nicole Pitell

No. Wow, you know about the accident? No, no, no, that was the government shutdown that almost just happened this year with the Rebelle permits. Oh, It was the budget one. Where the government shut down and they weren't going to send BLM. They pulled everyone, even from government land, like any competition, recreation use type permitting.

[00:41:15.830] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, that was over the budget fight. Yes.

[00:41:18.290] - Nicole Pitell

Correct. Okay.

[00:41:21.810] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. And then so you guys, you met at Off-Road Expo. That was back in the day they had a back when they had the TV show then, if they were hanging out together. Correct.

[00:41:33.240] - Nicole Pitell

So we meet in like 2010. We go compete at battle at prim in 2014. And then I remember driving down the grade, the state line in my RV with Jessie, and she looks over at me and she's like, Hey, man, there's this crazy all women's rally in Africa. You want to go do it? And I'm like, When is it? And she's all March, and this is February. And I'm like, Dude, we can't go do it. I don't know. And all women's? That sounds horrible, was honestly the first thing I said to her. Fast forward to that November, and we're building a program to actually go compete in it in 2015.

[00:42:23.920] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. She did things on the whim, didn't she?

[00:42:30.730] - Nicole Pitell

Yes, she was a complete free spirit, 100 %. Yes.

[00:42:38.020] - Big Rich Klein

And then so then you guys, you met, but you met Emily after you raced in 2015 in Morocco then, right?

[00:42:48.640] - Nicole Pitell

No. I wound up meeting Emily that September. So my sister-in-law unexpectedly died from a brain aneurysm in 2014. That was when I knew I really... Life is short. She was two years younger than I was, and I needed to get out of my comfort zone We had been purring along at total chaos for about a decade at that time. Ever since I was a kid, Africa had been a country that really intrigued me. In September, I I am contacted by another woman who wanted me to actually do the Gazelle on a motorcycle. And as I began researching it, I was like, Dude, this is gnarly to even take the step to attempt to go compete. And this is not cheap. But there's no way I'm doing it on a motorcycle. That's like, double down. Anyone that's done it on a motorcycle is a true badass. I hope I could say that. Yes, absolutely. So that's when I reach out to Jessie and I'm like, hey, I've done some research on that competition. I'd be down, if you want to make this happen, let's do this. And we pulled it off.

[00:44:14.520] - Big Rich Klein

And you guys, what was the... How did you guys finish up?

[00:44:19.560] - Nicole Pitell

We were the highest ranking USA team that year, and we were 10th overall out of about 100 teams and the highest ranking rookies to compete.

[00:44:35.760] - Big Rich Klein

Very good. Cool.

[00:44:38.270] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah. She was great in the navigation seat. I think all of her fabrication skills She was able to put all that mathematics and navigation to the map. She did great.

[00:44:51.590] - Big Rich Klein

Then you guys get back from there, and then you raced with Chrissy as well?

[00:45:00.100] - Nicole Pitell

I went back the following year. I had gotten the bug for Africa, and I knew any competition, the first time you do it, you're learning the paces and how to play the game. I knew that I wanted to aim for a podium. Chrissie was a hired gun. She was one of the best navigators for the US at the time. We began chatting immediately upon our learn, and I We put together a program for us to go compete in 2016. We sent the Tacoma back over there. From the very beginning, we battled for first and second place the entire rally, and we wound up finishing second place, highest ranking all US team to ever compete in the competition. Very good. That was freaking awesome.

[00:45:59.470] - Big Rich Klein

Then that's around the time that you met Emily.

[00:46:03.540] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah. I had met Emily, and I knew of Emily in college. One of my senior classes, I was flipping through an off-road magazine in the back of a technologies operations management class, and they were doing the Vegas to Reno 2000, and Emily's picture was in there. Then us coming from a stock mini competition, she raced stock full with Rod Hall. So you knew drivers' names, and you'd see them at contingency or see their pit team at different random pits. So I had known of Emily's racing career in the early 2000s. She trained us to go compete in 2015, and we stayed in touch. We started going to the beach. She surfed, I bodyboarded. We'd connect, we'd go mountain bike riding, do just fun non-race-related stuff. But we honestly began scouting. I don't think a lot of people know it. It was February of 2016 together. I had been at one of her very first business meetings in August of 2015 that transpired. The thought The thought and the concept of the rally were going down. I think she just saw the passion that I have for the sport of off-road. I really like to have fun in life, no bad days.

[00:47:45.030] - Nicole Pitell

I mean, we've all got them, don't get me wrong. But laughter is God's greatest medicine. I really like to have fun. I think that that made it easy for Emily to pick up a phone like, Hey, you want to go to the desert? Yeah, I'm down. Let's go. And then it just clicked from there. I actually met with her yesterday and have already begun the discussions of what's going to transpire for 2024. So it's good stuff. Good stuff.

[00:48:15.770] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. So then with the racing and then coming into the Rebell, you've been a marketing partner of the Rebell from day one and staff. I like the story of Shelle and I getting involved with the Rebell. She had been following it on social media that this thing was coming up. And then when signups finally opened up, she went to the Internet and was reading all about it and decided that even though she did a lot of off-roading, she never drove. She always left that to me. And navigation wasn't necessarily something that comes very natural to her. She could probably... I mean, it took her quite a few months to get used to all the back roads here in Placerville, California, because it's not a grid system. So she was confused when it comes to navigation. So she was like, Well, darn. How do I get involved with this? And so she goes, Rich, you know Emily Emily, right? And I said, Yeah. She goes, Can you call her and see if she needs volunteers? I said, Sure. Sounds great. And of course, Emily was like, You'd do that? Really? And it was like, Well, yeah.

[00:49:43.320] - Big Rich Klein

So we've been on staff from the very beginning and have thoroughly enjoyed the event. But your participation in it has been one of those founding moments, I think.

[00:49:57.060] - Nicole Pitell

I love hearing the story of how you guys got involved because it's a true organism. It's much greater than a competition. And to be honest, upon my second return from Africa, the life lessons the confidence, the growth, the personal growth that I had that I was able to apply to my career, the decision making services, just Trusting your gut to be okay with a decision and just move on. Being a woman in this industry, I've never looked at that as being something that was a challenge. I just do a job, to be honest. But competing without my boys around, that scared the shit out of me. It really did. I wanted to go halfway around the world, and I'd always relied on my locos mocos crew. We're having Matt and Mikey around. I needed to remove myself from my comfort zone when Kristen died, and I did that. The impact that it had on me personally, we We were, luckily, in a position to help support what Emily believed she could build here in the United States. I knew hands-to-hand. From being a I feel passionate about all motor sports. From a motor sports standpoint, the fact that this is curated for women and traverses some of the most epic terrain that the Southwest can offer, our company had to be involved.

[00:51:52.960] - Nicole Pitell

It's like philanthropy in a nutshell. Giving back to my community. We all it in different ways, but this is the way that I've chosen to give back to moms, daughters, just chics in general.

[00:52:10.260] - Big Rich Klein

Right. I love the event because Well, there's so many things, but the basic core of it is, is watching these these women that are competing and watching watching them have success on their own. And not that they don't have that in their normal life, but like you said, in their normal life, They've got husbands or boyfriends or significant others that are there as support, where out on the rebel, it's them and their partner. And then there's the staff support, but it's not the same as you have in regular life. And watching those ladies develop that ability to manage everything on their own is awesome.

[00:53:16.720] - Nicole Pitell

The sense of independence and self-confidence, hands down, is so badass. It makes it easy to learn each year.

[00:53:29.290] - Big Rich Klein

Agreed Agreed. So you just had one of your bucket list items that you knocked off, and that was the... It was a motorcycle's riding. You were at Glen Helen, All right. What did you call it?

[00:53:46.660] - Nicole Pitell

Yeah, World Vets was on the bucket list.

[00:53:50.340] - Big Rich Klein

And how did that go for you?

[00:53:54.890] - Nicole Pitell

Well, I didn't suck too bad. I think I took fourth or fifth Steffie Lahr, a European phenom. I mean, this check just rips. She was over riding on a Mike Brown KTM. I had some fast ex-woman pros dropping the gate with me. I took Fifth on Saturday. It was a three moto format. I took three-fifths and then a fourth, and then my third moto. You know, Any day you walk away from the track and you're dropping gates like you do in that sport, there's no bad days. The fact that I'm still riding a motorcycle at 48 years old brings so much joy to my soul. It's a sport right now that I still wake up, and you would think I'm eight years old. It just puts the biggest smile on my face to still put on a helmet and fire up the bike and go be a free spirit and spend some laps or even trail ride. I absolutely love the sport.

[00:55:07.410] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. And so how many more things do you have on that bucket list?

[00:55:12.510] - Nicole Pitell

It's funny you bring that up. The first week of every year in this company, this started in 2007, it is company policy that every person within this organization writes down a minimum of five personal and five professional goals that they want to accomplish in that year. And they put it in an envelope and you seal it. And every year, this is a project that I do. If you're employed here, you participate in the project. And if you don't, I wouldn't know. You can put a blank piece of paper. You probably don't have long term employment here, though, because I don't hang around with people that aren't motivated, inspired, and driven every day. And this is like it's the subliminal procrastination list. If you're procrastinating on something, you're writing it down. But we do it every year. So just Saturday, I wrote down my 2024 bucket list, and it's got 23 things that I aspire to accomplish this year in some way, shape, or form. Some are work-related, some are personal, some are certain athletic-related. But yeah. And I I'm staring at three bucket lists from three employees. The deadline is Wednesday, end of day, and every year I find it...

[00:56:40.810] - Nicole Pitell

I'm inspired to ask between two and four new people to join a blind carbon copied list, and I will never disclose who they are, but you would be amazed how many people are on your rebel rally that participate in this project. We call it the Chaos Bucket List. It's goofy. I'll reach out to everybody in October and ask them to open their envelope. I used to wait till December, but the one thing I realized after doing it as long as I have is I think it's important to open it before the end of year and leave yourself two or three months to potentially accomplish something that you might have been gotten distracted on because of personal in life or you never know. So, yeah, we open them now in October, and I ask everybody to keep them every year. So basically, I have a snapshot of my personal goals from 2007 through this year that all get nestled in this really thick envelope now. But it is awesome to see the personal growth, the professional growth, all of these accomplishments that I've nailed. I think it's a phenomenal project, maybe talking about it on a podcast can inspire some people.

[00:58:04.630] - Big Rich Klein

That's great. I know Shelle does a list like that. I don't create a list. I just take every opportunity to go out and try to do something I don't know why I don't set goals.

[00:58:22.090] - Nicole Pitell

There are some people that don't, and I don't believe it's a bad thing. For some people that are like me. I'm I'm pretty metrics-driven, unfortunately. So, yeah, it's inspiring. I'm really stoked on the four people that have been added to the list this year. It's pretty rad. Two of them are from the rally. They're actually competitors, so I think that's awesome.

[00:58:51.270] - Big Rich Klein

Cool.

[00:58:51.810] - Nicole Pitell

And yeah, I mean, it's good stuff. It's a goopy project, but I've even got a couple of friends, kids doing it. I wish someone would have inspired me earlier in my lifetime to do something like this because what I find so fascinating is my change of what makes me kick in certain time periods of my life. I have lists pre-broken back, post-broken back. I've had three knee surgeries. I have a plated wrist, all these are bucket list time zones where I've spent a lot of time mentally staying strong to recover from crashes and sports-related ailments, and I'm super motivated to get back and do what I love.

[00:59:44.660] - Big Rich Klein

That's awesome. Yeah, I've always been the wandering soul. I have a hard time staying in one place and doing one thing for years or even for months at a time. So I wouldn't say that I move with the wind, but that's probably not a bad definition.

[01:00:09.840] - Nicole Pitell

It's a perfect analogy. You're a complete free spirit. You don't want to be chained to anything, and you want to leave yourself the freedom to take advantage of any opportunity that presents itself and gives you the opportunity to be stoked. And we need, you guys are the Yang to my metrics driven Yang. You need to have both those personalities.

[01:00:42.590] - Big Rich Klein

And that's Shelle and I.

[01:00:45.860] - Nicole Pitell

Absolutely. I know that you're smiling faces.

[01:00:48.100] - Big Rich Klein

She's very listed.

[01:00:50.130] - Nicole Pitell

Every year, as the rally concludes and I finally see you guys at the end, it's such a joy to see the people that continue to show up every year and support Emily's vision and truly make it what it is, especially to the competitors. Right.

[01:01:12.280] - Big Rich Klein

It's that if we can if we can make a difference and change somebody's life, that's in any part of our our own life, that's important.

[01:01:25.100] - Nicole Pitell

Absolutely.

[01:01:26.600] - Big Rich Klein

The one thing that I learned when I became an off-road event promoter was it allowed me to keep moving, go to different places, do something different basically every day, even though it may be the same thing, but in different locations, or the planning was different, even though it was going to be doing the same thing. And that was always a comfort to me compared to the corporate jobs that I had where I had to show up and work nine to 5:00 or whatever the hours were. And to do the same monotonous tasks over and over and over, I couldn't deal with that stuff. And that's why I never had a job or did anything like that, my own businesses included, for more than five years. I would just get, I don't know if it was bored, but I would get stagnant. And just I had to keep, I had to go do something else. And when I found the off-road events, then it was like, Okay, now I found something that keeps me interested.

[01:02:34.800] - Nicole Pitell

The pace of how you have to perform to be an event promoter is awe-inspiring to me. I mean, I I have witnessed hundreds of hours behind the scenes of truly what it takes for Emily to put on this event. There is no other Emily Miller for the sport of off-road. Truly, It is the dynamics of this particular competition is unbelievable. I agree. She is 100 % committed to the success of these women. And the rally and ensuring that it stays going. It's inspiring.

[01:03:24.630] - Big Rich Klein

So what's on the horizon for total chaos?

[01:03:30.460] - Nicole Pitell

Toyota has been good to us in the last two years. We've got a 2024 Tacoma that's supposed to drop here from corporate, so we'll definitely be getting our hands on one of those. We're looking forward to the Signing some new products for it. Let a little cat out of the bag. I wouldn't be surprised if you see it competing in the Rebell Rally in 2024.

[01:03:58.360] - Big Rich Klein

Very nice.

[01:03:59.640] - Nicole Pitell

Personally, the bucket list is filled with some rad stuff. I just want to keep this machine going. There's been a lot of changes in our space of this industry with mergers and acquisitions. We have chosen to take a path of remaining a small business that is self-funded. We're not looking for assistance. We don't need assistance. We want to remain our own bosses. But I think that's going to definitely... You're going to see a lot of changes in this space in the next couple of years. But yeah, for the most part, I just want to keep a solid team. I want to keep sharing the stoke for the sport of off-road. We've got some Chaos Games trips planned where we're going to go get some content. We want to go back to our roots where we get together as a team and just go explore and go run our stuff and just go spend time together. We've all gotten caught up in the go, go, go, in the calendar schedule and the events and so many things that are part of what we do on our day to day operations that I'd like to pump the brakes a little bit this year and use it as a tick of a rebuild year internally to keep the passion and keep the stoke alive.

[01:05:27.300] - Nicole Pitell

I mean, as long as we continue to stay motivated and people are pumped on our parts, we're going to keep building good stuff.

[01:05:36.110] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. Excellent. Glad to hear that. And congratulations on making that decision and being able to do that and staying out of that corporate web. I understand when business owners go that direction, the mindset nowadays is build it, sell it. But I've always been one of those that build it, it till you can't. I'm glad to see that you guys are staying family.

[01:06:09.710] - Nicole Pitell

We call ourselves the Nogates. You can hear the conversation regularly. It's a microwave. We consider ourselves unemployment, but we all, I mean, the vibe and the energy within this organization across all 10,000 square feet, from the fabricators to the front sales line, to the creatives. We all love being our own bosses. We love making our own decisions. It's way harder to take this path, but we're still enjoying the ride. And as long as it's fun, we're not for sale and we're not on the market.

[01:06:50.670] - Big Rich Klein

Excellent. Glad to hear that. Well, Nicole, thank you so much for spending the time with us and sharing your life history and some of the things that people didn't know and sharing your dreams with us, because that's important for everybody. Those that dream inspire others.

[01:07:13.470] - Nicole Pitell

100 %. Thank you for the opportunity to be a part of this, and I look forward to seeing you in the dirt.

[01:07:20.510] - Big Rich Klein

All right. Sounds good. You have a great day.

[01:07:24.110] - Nicole Pitell

You too.

[01:07:26.110] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.