A Life Steeped in Off-Road Legacy, Josh Hall, on Episode 309

In this episode of Conversations with Big Rich, Josh Hall shares a lifetime of off-road stories shaped by growing up in the iconic Hall family. From pumping gas at his dad’s ARCO stations in Hemet to riding shotgun with the legendary, Bill Stroppe, Josh recounts early Jeep and Bronco days, Riverside memories, and an unforgettable Baja 1000 chase van run to La Paz before the pavement existed.

So many memories, from Hummer highs to GM’s bankruptcy lows, followed by an Australasian Safari that sparked international ambitions. Josh has spent years scouting Nevada by mapbook, permits and camp life, and continues to help share the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame that his father resurrected.

Transcript

[00:00:05.100] 

Welcome to Conversations with Big Rich. This is an interview-style podcast. Those interviewed are all involved in the off-road industry. Being involved, like all of my guests are, is a lifestyle, not just a job. I talk to past, present, and future legends, as well as business owners, employees, media, and land use warriors, men and women who have found their way into this exciting and addictive lifestyle we call off-road. We discuss their personal history, struggles, successes, and reboots. We dive into what drives them to stay active and off-road. We all hope to shed some light on how to find a path into this world that we live and love and call off-road.

[00:00:46.400] 

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[00:01:11.940] - Big Rich Klein

On today's episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'll be speaking with the gentleman that grew up in an iconic off-road family. From racing in Mexico, racing at Riverside, and hanging out with a whole bunch of other iconic racers, this gentleman grew up in a racing family and became a racer.

[00:01:34.140] - Big Rich Klein

He also sits on the board of directors for the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame. My guest today is Josh Hall. Well, Josh Hall, it's good to have you on the podcast with us, finally. Looking forward to this interview and finding out more about your life and growing up with an iconic racing dad and being around all of those iconic racers when you were a youth, I'm sure. So looking forward to this. So hello.

[00:02:05.500] - Josh Hall

Well, hello. And thank you, Rich. I'm glad I'm not the only one looking forward to it.

[00:02:10.200] - Big Rich Klein

Great. So most times people are dreading it, I think, because they don't know what they're going to end up saying, but we'll protect.

[00:02:18.860] - Josh Hall

Yeah. Well, I don't either. So I'm no different than anyone else.

[00:02:22.720] - Big Rich Klein

Perfect. So let's start off where I start off with everybody and ask that simple question, where were you born raised?

[00:02:32.020] - Josh Hall

Well, I was born in the mecca of the early off-road racing days of Hemet, California, Riverside County. 1961.

[00:02:46.320] - Big Rich Klein

'61. Oh, you're just a babe.

[00:02:49.820] - Josh Hall

Thank you. Thank you. Almost eligible for Medicare, so I appreciate that.

[00:02:58.520] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I've been on it for a couple of Anyway, so how long did you guys stay in Hemet?

[00:03:07.940] - Josh Hall

I believe we moved to Reno between my freshman and sophomore year of high school. I'm not exactly sure that that must have been 1976, I believe. I believe that was the the summer of '76 is when we moved up. The Bicentennial was happening, and so I remember that being a really big, big deal.

[00:03:39.840] - Big Rich Klein

Okay, well, let's talk about those early years in Hemet then, since you spent a few years there. It was pretty rural still back then? It was. What did you guys... What was it like for the family then? Was your dad racing at that point?

[00:04:01.400] - Josh Hall

He was. So at that time, well, pop owned a couple of Atlantic Richfield gas stations, one on the east end of town, one on the west end of Hemet. And Chad and I, when we could wipe our own buts, pop put us to work. And so We worked at the gas stations when we weren't in school. It was pop's racing at that time was in Jeeps. He had a relationship with Brian Tchoua still at that time. As the years wound forward a little bit, he also then got involved with Jim Garner's All American Racing Team, and they were Ramblers. The Ramblers were not far from one of the gas stations. It was fun to work at the gas station, clean windschilds, pump ethyl, regular, and work in the shop, back in the service base, vacuuming cars and doing what we could, refilling the soda pop machines and selling propane, and then going to be a part of his racing on the weekends as a spectator. It was a blast.

[00:05:41.280] - Big Rich Klein

What was school like for you back then? Were you a good student or were you one of those that were always looking out the window?

[00:05:51.040] - Josh Hall

Yeah, absolutely. God could not have made a worse student than me. Maybe my dad was worse, but I was definitely more more interested in what was going to happen when school was out.

[00:06:05.480] - Big Rich Klein

What was that typically for you when school was out?

[00:06:12.120] - Josh Hall

It was actually bicycles. Bicycles were the thing. I'm not saying that I was a part of a gang or anything like that.

[00:06:21.730] - Big Rich Klein

Bicycle gang, right?

[00:06:23.280] - Josh Hall

Yeah. There was a bunch of us in the neighborhood that would ride our bikes dark. Then at dark, we had a street light out in front of the house, and so we were able to kick the can until mom couldn't stand it anymore. The door would open and she'd grab us by the earlobes and pull us in. It was pretty innocent activities that was very enjoyable.

[00:06:54.060] - Big Rich Klein

In your neighborhood, were there any other families that were from race families?

[00:07:03.200] - Josh Hall

Yeah. Within a close proximity, Jim Loomis and his wife, Betty, had Steve and Rob Loomis. And so Steve and Rob, Steve was a little bit older than me, and I believe Robbie was a little bit older than Chad. So we hung with the Loomises all the time. Then, of course, Larry Minor and his kids lived in town. They were on the outskirts of town, so we couldn't ride our bikes to the Minor's house. But we did do that. Carl Jackson and his kids. And, shoot, I'm probably missing somebody. But, yeah, we would ride go-karts together as families. And it was a real racing youth growing up with racers.

[00:08:09.180] - Big Rich Klein

When did you actually start working at the gas station as a... I mean, I'm sure that you were running around there, probably, like you said, just barely out of diapers, but when did he really actually put you to work?

[00:08:30.700] - Josh Hall

I think Chad and I had uniforms when we were 10. When I was 10 and Chad was a little bit… We had uniforms that had Arco on the patch on the left breast.

[00:08:45.320] - Big Rich Klein

Nice.

[00:08:46.780] - Josh Hall

And we'd have to use a stool to clean. Back in those days, it was full service gas stations. Rich, I remember at the time, it was no big deal. But when price for regular went to 19. 9 cents per gallon, we thought the world was going to come to an end.

[00:09:18.240] - Big Rich Klein

Right?

[00:09:20.420] - Josh Hall

So pump gas at 20 cents a gallon, it sounds like it was a long time ago, but it really wasn't long ago.

[00:09:30.700] - Big Rich Klein

No, I can remember when I started driving, fuel was right there, right around in the San Francisco Bay Area, was somewhere 20 to, I want to say 21 to 24 cents, 25 cents a gallon.

[00:09:44.840] - Josh Hall

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:48.000] - Big Rich Klein

And I was glad I had a Volkswagen Bug. Just so I could keep filling the tank.

[00:09:58.940] - Josh Hall

Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:00.340] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. I worked at a Chevron that was a full... Or a standard station, actually, that was a full service. So the car would come in, you'd start to pump the gas, you'd wash the windshield, check the oil, quickly look at the air filter, make suggestions if needed, check the condition of the belts and higher pressures and stuff like that. Full service.

[00:10:28.880] - Josh Hall

We share that same path towards prosperity starting early.

[00:10:35.060] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:10:36.340] - Josh Hall

Somewhere I fell off that path, though.

[00:10:39.120] - Big Rich Klein

Making money?

[00:10:41.260] - Josh Hall

Yeah.

[00:10:42.220] - Big Rich Klein

Because you became a race car driver.

[00:10:44.760] - Josh Hall

Well, that's how you spend it, that's for sure. But a lot of activities we spent... You know that pop, pop on his own gas station, so that means he was at work, literally, all the time. But there were times when we'd be able to go on Jeep trips. He was a big part of the Him at Jeep Club and very active in the Him at Jeep Club. And so we got to do some jeeping. Then towards the end, let's see, it must have been '70, '70, or in the mid '70s, before we moved to Reno, and pop started driving for Bill Straub in the Broncos. And so on the weekends, Jim Fricker and pop and Chad and myself, sometimes both of us, usually one of us at a time, but we jump in Fricker's Ford Galaxy station wagon. And by the way, didn't come with seatbelts in those days. And so we were able to just hang out in the back of the station wagon. We drive to Long Beach and then spend the weekend. Jim and Fricker would work on their race Bronco. Chad and I would do things to try and not get in trouble.

[00:12:22.540] - Josh Hall

Don't know exactly how we managed that, but maybe it was because really no one knew what we were But it was, talk about having glassy-eyed glazed over eyes at Bill Sprott's Rave shop. Oh, my gosh. He was on Signal Hill. He was the epitome of what desert racing was like at that time, and everyone aspired to be like Bill Strapp. What a wonderful mentor he was, even for the the kids that Chad and I were, but more so for pop and Jim Pricker at the time, and everyone that Bill was involved with. We would stay the night there in the race shop. Bill had a little, I'm not calling it bedroom, but he had a room that had bunk beds in it. We were able to stay overnight at the race shop and get maximum amount of of prep time in on the Bronco, and then jump back in on Sunday into the station wagon and head back to Kemmitz to start the work week all over again.

[00:13:41.940] - Big Rich Klein

How often were you guys racing? Were you going out to the races with your dad at that point?

[00:13:54.120] - Josh Hall

Well, as often as my mom basically was able to go until Chad and I got a little bit older. When Chad and I were old enough, this would have been in the Bronco days, he and I would be able to We didn't need babysitter's anymore. That was a huge help. To know that Bill Straff was... In the car hauler, Bill had a cool car hauler, which I believe is still around. But I'd sit in the right front seat and Bill would drive the hauler with all of the race vehicles on it to the race. We'd go racing, and we'd be a part of the chase crews at that time. Then when the race was over, I'd get to jump back in the hauler and ride with Bill Strapp back to Long Beach. Just to sit next to Bill Strapp and to listen to him opine about whatever was on his mind was a truly memorable and fruitful opportunity that I had that I feel truly blessed to have had with Bill Strapp.

[00:15:21.920] - Big Rich Klein

I can imagine. That must have been incredible. Do you have any memorable stories, like a particular story or a situation that happened on, say, one of those trips or a race like that?

[00:15:38.680] - Josh Hall

One of the first races that really I remember was Baja 1,000. Forgive me, Rich. Years don't mean anything anymore. Don't worry about it. The number of the year. But I can tell you it was before the highway was completely paved between La Paz and Encinada. The road that is today, at that time, there were sections of it that many, most of the road was not paved. It was just a dirt road. Bill had a couple of of Ford vans, big, huge 12-passenger, maybe even 15-passenger vans, but I think they were 15-passenger vans with the back seat removed so that they could put luggage for all the 12 individuals that were in the van. Then when the race cars got the green flag, all of the individuals who were part of Strapp's crew heading south would get in the vans. Chad, my mother, myself, and a van full of people that I really didn't know at that time. Down the peninsula, we went in two-wheel drive maxi all the way to La Paz. What a hoot that was. Believe me, what a hoot.

[00:17:22.660] - Big Rich Klein

Quite an adventure, I would imagine for a young kid.

[00:17:26.780] - Josh Hall

Absolutely. It was all day long, all night long, all day long, over roads that at that time were mostly washboard and junk, and people crammed into the van. It was a good learning experience of what life was going to be like.

[00:17:54.120] - Big Rich Klein

And that must have been a good building building block for you for the rest of your life, for sure.

[00:18:05.880] - Josh Hall

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:09.880] - Big Rich Klein

And how long did the the Bronco years last? I mean, was that I don't know the... I'm not a connoisseur of the history of all the years, but- Well, The progression would have been when I was really young.

[00:18:37.000] - Josh Hall

Actually, my first memory of off-road racing was the old Riverside Riverbed Races, the Riverside Riverbed Races, where it was basically like a figure eight race. Two vehicles would take the start at the same time on a different loop, and then they would cross over in the middle, and then they would each run the second loop and the first one across the line with the checkered flag would move on. I'm pretty sure Brian Shichua had something to do with that, but that was so fun. It was such a memorable and fun experience That was in the Jeeps. Then we moved into Riverside. I don't believe that Riverside ever happened in the Jeeps. I might be wrong, but I clearly remember the Broncos because I was old enough to drive from Reno down to Riverside for the Riverside Grand Prix. Then when we moved to in Reno, pop, sold his gas stations and ended up buying a Rod Hall Performance and Four-wheel Drive shop up in Reno. I remember being back in the shop as we were doing some cleanup and over the PA, Hey, Rod, you got to call Line 1. It's Chrysler Corporation. And pop went over to the service desk, picked up the phone, and he was all of a sudden a driver for Chrysler Corporation.

[00:20:40.260] - Josh Hall

So whatever year that would have been, must have been the Let's see, 70, I think that might have been like 1978, '77 or '78, because I think the first truck you received was that '78 power wagon. And then that lasted for 20 years.

[00:21:04.120] - Big Rich Klein

Wow. I know that the family has one of the shares in Rubicon Soda Spring's Incorporated, the homeowners group up there. When did that start for you guys? Do you remember that?

[00:21:20.400] - Josh Hall

Gosh.

[00:21:22.800] - Big Rich Klein

Was it before moving to Reno or after moving to Reno? Oh, yeah.

[00:21:26.720] - Josh Hall

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. One of the first activities my mom and my dad did in the early '60s was the first Rubicon. They were a part of the very first Rubicon, Mark Smith's event. They together would make the trek for a number of years. Then I think dad was because of Brian Chuchua and Mark Smith as a friend. I mean, they somehow had a little competitive blood with each other, but at the same time, they were respectful of each other and their positions in the off-road world, and dad wanted to be a part of it. So he was one of the original shareholders, which meant he was one of the original investors in purchasing the property.

[00:22:38.540] - Big Rich Klein

Cool. So you've been going up there forever?

[00:22:43.780] - Josh Hall

A while.

[00:22:44.700] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah.

[00:22:48.400] - Josh Hall

But one of the things that it's low and slow has never been one of my strong suits, but I really enjoy it. I I really enjoy it, and I love that trail, and I've done it many, many, many times. I love the atmosphere and quietness and solitude of Rubicon Springs itself, the beauty, the challenge that the trail presents to the users of the trail, respecting the nature that it basically bisects. I mean, it's just a wonderful experience. I've never really had the vehicle to go through it, so I've needed to I needed someone to take me. To have friends who are willing to allow me to be a passenger in their vehicle. I did the trail a few for work, so with Humvees, Hummers. But it's a blast. I love it, and I'm very thankful that dad had the opportunity to be an investor in it.

[00:24:13.840] - Big Rich Klein

When you were in high school then, you up in Reno for most of that then. What was the school like and life in Reno like besides the performance shop?

[00:24:32.160] - Josh Hall

I was beginning to appreciate life in the desert. As soon as I could drive, I spent virtually all of my free time driving through the desert and just loved it. As I got old enough to start thinking about what I wanted to do with my adult life, which I'm still trying to work that one out, I decided that when I graduated from high school, I wanted to go into the field of exploration, so mining and gas and oil exploration. I thought that sounded exciting. I focused on that and then ended up getting a job working for a mining company in exploration and decided that that really was something I was interested in, but the clock was ticking. If I was going to be a Marine, I better do it right now. So after two years of working my way up through a degree, I decided that I'd put that on pause and enlist in the Marine Corps, and that's what I did. Next thing I know, I'm Marine Corps basic training down in MCRD San Diego, and in the next three years, we're being the servant of Uncle Sam.

[00:26:21.480] - Big Rich Klein

Was it an epiphany or that you just wanted to be a Marine, or was it something that you had looked for to for a couple of years before joining?

[00:26:35.680] - Josh Hall

When we lived in Hemet, my brother and I shared a bedroom. We did for the most part, we did everything together. But we had a very large walk-in closet with a sloped ceiling. We marked on the slope ceiling and we turned that closet, if you will, into a tank. At that time, the Vietnam War was a thing. I mean, it was on TV first thing in the morning, all day long, at night. I think, unfortunately, I grew up in the. Chad went into the Air Force. But I think we were just exposed to that level of the military in our lives that left a lasting impression on me. I chose to pursue that little tug that it gave me.

[00:27:53.080] - Big Rich Klein

Interesting. Okay. How many years are between you and Chad?

[00:28:00.000] - Josh Hall

Eighteen months.

[00:28:01.570] - Big Rich Klein

Eighteen months, okay. So real close then. Yeah.

[00:28:05.620] - Josh Hall

Yeah, we're pretty close.

[00:28:08.160] - Big Rich Klein

And while you were in high school, did you guys... Did you get involved with any extra Curricular activities, any sports or band or anything like that?

[00:28:20.620] - Josh Hall

I wrestled. I wrestled for a few years. Chad played football for a few years. We never were blessed with It was a physical body size that would be ideal for contact sports or sports in most types of sports. We didn't really focus on those types of activities. We literally drove. That's what we wanted to do, drive. So we did.

[00:28:59.080] - Big Rich Klein

What year did you start driving, or how old were you when you started to drive?

[00:29:04.360] - Josh Hall

I got... Let's see here. I finished my active duty obligation with the Marine Corps in 1986. Actually, early 1987, like January of 1987. With Within a few months, we, POP, had worked a deal with... Oh, my gosh, I'm going to space his name. Buddy Reno. Buddy, Reno. He was an awesome guy. Buddy had a partner in a Dodge race truck. Dad wanted to bring that truck into our shop up in Reno and give us, Chad and I, an opportunity to start prepping a race car. So that's what we did. We went ahead and we started prepping Buddy Reno's race truck, and then we acquired one of dad's old dodges, and Chad and I prepped that truck at the same time as Buddy's truck, and he and I started our racing together in the Vora series. And Rich, if I could tell you what year that was, I would do that But maybe if I think about that long enough.

[00:30:51.500] - Big Rich Klein

That was back- That was back- That was Ed Robinson.

[00:30:55.260] - Josh Hall

Yeah, with Ed. That's how I got to know Ed. And his wife, Jenny. And all of the fine volunteer staff that made Laura a really fun organization to race with. Yeah. Which obviously you have some history with.

[00:31:23.080] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, because when Ed decided to retire and he wanted to sell out, he found me.

[00:31:30.540] - Josh Hall

And then it was that, I think it was the first year, maybe the second year that I was running Vora is when Rod showed up with the Hummers and came out and raced.

[00:31:50.490] - Big Rich Klein

And I remember, I think the first race I remember him at, and I'm imagining that you guys all showed up. I I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off. And it might have been Hawthorn, but it could have been Yarrington. That's the first race I think I remember was Hawthorn. With Rod there. And I was like, wow, I got Rod Hall, the Hall family, coming out to race it for us. Because hadn't seen you, hadn't seen maybe the first couple of races or something. But it was an exciting time for me to learn. Ed taught me a lot about the whole setting up a racetrack and how to market and all that stuff. And also to slow down on the highway coming into Hawthorn, because the first time that he and I drove out there, I was following him. And as we came right there, the railroad crossing, going at the end of the lake in the beginning of town, he got pulled over by the Nevada Highway Patrol for speeding. And I had slowed down because I knew Nevada towns are notorious. But he got a ticket for speeding, and he said, okay, there's a good lesson for you, Rich.

[00:33:21.920] - Big Rich Klein

Slow down before you get into these little towns. I still adhere to that.

[00:33:29.800] - Josh Hall

Well, you're You're welcome. You're welcome.

[00:33:33.100] - Big Rich Klein

So pretty much since getting out of the Marine Corps, then you've been a racer. Is that correct?

[00:33:46.180] - Josh Hall

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. You know, I've had great opportunities to do some fun things and to use a little bit of talent that I had and to continue with the passion that really drove my dad. Chad and I were infected by it as well. But when, like 2010, trying to think when 2008, 2009, when GM ended up having to file bankruptcy. It pretty well ended the Hummer days for us. Chad did a few things on his own, and I did a few things on my own, and then had an opportunity to go spend almost a month in Australia on the Australasian Safari Rally at that time. That inspired me to want to do more than just desert racing. Not that there's anything wrong with just desert racing, but what I experienced in Australia was extraordinary. It was Fantastic. When Chad and dad went to North Africa for the Dakar rally for their first... They went twice. At that time, We had 18 employees or something like that, 18, 19, 20 employees at Rod Hall International. Unfortunately, I was the one that was able to and run the business while they went off and ran the car.

[00:36:08.180] - Josh Hall

But for me to be able to then, a couple of years later, go and run in Australia was fantastic. There was no roadside bombs. Everyone spoke English, if you consider the Australian outback English. And they spend dollars. So Even though we were on the West Coast of Australia, in WA, mostly Western Australia, it was absolutely one of the biggest things I had ever done. It really inspired me to want to be more active in international competition. When we got back, dad and Chad were on board, and that's when we ended up building a unlimited truck four-wheel drive unlimited truck that was really geared more dimensionally for international rallies. In fact, Chad, over the years, has gone in and made changes to that same chassis, that same platform, and turned it into the 230 Trophy Truck spec that we raced today, and that we're going to race at the MENT in a couple of weeks.

[00:37:35.940] - Big Rich Klein

So when you say dimensionally, is that more like on... Because I know in Australia, the full-size pickups that we know of are rare. I mean, it's not... They're not the big... You see Ford raptors or full-size Chevies, Z71s or whatever, but it always seems like see more of the Ute style, so maybe more like the Chevy Colorado size.

[00:38:05.740] - Josh Hall

So they had width restrictions. So the rules that were written at that time, required, I believe the max width was 86 inches. And so we couldn't run the a desert setup that was prevalent at that time. Everything, of course, being much wider than 86 inches. So this truck had to conform to the FIA's international standards at that time. Which was 86 inches in width. And I can't remember. The wheelbase was... It was a maximum on that, too, so we had to conform to that. The engine maximum was 6 It was just a little bit different standard that the truck was built to. Then in order to be competitive over here, Chad had to go in with his team and make significant chassis changes to it to make it a desert racer in the States. And now it's a fun, beautiful truck to drive. It's very enjoyable.

[00:39:31.260] - Big Rich Klein

And before the Chevy experience, well, when did Rod and you guys work on the adventure tours? And that was more for the Hummers, wasn't it?

[00:39:49.620] - Josh Hall

Actually, that started in the Dodge days.

[00:39:53.560] - Big Rich Klein

In the Dodge days, okay.

[00:39:54.300] - Josh Hall

That was one of the things that pop wanted to provide, basically, both the manufacturer. I mean, everyone knew the Dodge was the... The big two were Chevy and Ford, and then there was a Dodge. Dodge needed a little bit more help because they had a chassis or a body style or their process of updating their trucks was a little bit behind I owned a Chevy and Ford at that time. Anyways, dad wanted to give Dodge owners something that made their ownership special, and that was these Ghost Town tours that he was involved with. So it worked out great. I got to live in a truck for three or four months at a time and go out and scout roads and file permits and find vendors to support us when we were out in the desert with groups. And it was really a, I'm not calling it a luxury travel, but at the time, it was pretty comfortable for being desert camping. We go to some great places, some great Nevada and California ghost towns that I haven't been to in years, but I'm guessing they still look the same.

[00:41:31.320] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So did you enjoy that scouting, being out there? Were you out there by yourself, or was it a couple of rigs doing it on a weekend, or how did that work out?

[00:41:46.160] - Josh Hall

Yeah, we do. I mean, well, it was a job. It was the job. So it was a Monday through Saturday a thing. And there would be two of us. That way, if the vehicle had a problem, we could both die. But as far as... We just lived on the road and went out and camped in the truck and explored the Nevada Desert.

[00:42:21.200] - Big Rich Klein

Which direction out of Reno did you enjoy exploring the most? North, south, or going east?

[00:42:31.540] - Josh Hall

Well, we started south of Reno and then went east. From there, we'd go south, north, and east. I mean, we explored, I'm not saying every square inch of Nevada, but there's not too many valleys that we haven't been in. I loved them all.

[00:43:01.140] - Big Rich Klein

And when you would just lay out maps and then trace your routes on the maps. I know that when I owned Vora and we were doing the races, that Nevada had a really cool mapbook, Nevada. Put out, that was better than... I thought it showed more roads, and it was better than what the USGS maps were for at least finding roads. I don't know, what did you guys use?

[00:43:38.480] - Josh Hall

I still have it. I still have the book that was very It was very special. It was... I can't remember the name of it, but why it was so special was it used map data from the '60s and '70s. The reason why that was important is because all of the newer maps removed a lot of roads. So what you could see from map data, that map data going back to the '60s was where the old roads were. So we were able to literally to use roads that weren't on new maps, but they were on old maps, and the roads were still there.

[00:44:39.260] - Big Rich Klein

Was it like a spiral? Yeah, it was.

[00:44:43.160] - Josh Hall

It had a brown cover, and I have it down in the garage in a carrier that I had all of, including the Delorm mapbook of Nevada. I've got the Delorm mapbook of But I mean, that was it. There was no GPS. You had to use a map.

[00:45:05.380] - Big Rich Klein

Exactly. If you come across that book, I would love to see it again. At some point, when we come visit Reno or something, with Swing By, I would love to see that book. I'm trying to find another one like it, or if you can take a picture of the cover or something like that at some point. I can do that. I would love to have a copy A copy of that. I had a tote or bag, I should say, a duffle that had all of my USGS maps, all of my Delorme stuff, that Nevada book, and I lost all of that somewhere in all my travels. Somebody's got it. I know that. It's just not me. And it kills me that I don't have that.

[00:46:00.000] - Josh Hall

I will share with you as soon as I get off the phone and run down to the garage.

[00:46:04.340] - Big Rich Klein

Wow, that'd be great. And then I'll see if I can find one on eBay or something. So you've been racing, You've raced all over. You've never run to car yourself, though, correct?

[00:46:24.360] - Josh Hall

I have not, no.

[00:46:25.660] - Big Rich Klein

Okay.

[00:46:27.360] - Josh Hall

And honestly, that's not something My life is not complete. I don't feel like my life is not complete because I didn't participate in that. Right. I'm glad my brother did, and glad my dad did.

[00:46:48.980] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I think Dakar is an interesting race. I don't know if I would want to go over there and participate, or crew or observe it? I'm just not sure if that's the part of the world I want to be in.

[00:47:07.760] - Josh Hall

It's entertaining, and I watch every episode on YouTube that is streamed. It interests me, and I admire the competitors and the teams that participate in it. I appreciate the the competition for what it is. I sometimes wonder, it seems like all the cars are the same. The FIA keeps the standards of what you can do in building a car so restrictive that all the cars seem like they're all the same, and none of them like to hit big bumps. So I don't know. Good on them for doing what they're doing. I appreciate BF Goodrich for being the tire. If you want to win, if you're on a set of BFGs. Yeah, it's a big deal over there.

[00:48:18.880] - Big Rich Klein

Right. So let's talk about when your dad was handed the box that contained the Hall of Fame, the pervurial box. I mean, that's how it's always been described to me, is that, here, Rod, you're the guy that needs to take this over. Do you remember that time period and what your dad's thoughts were on all that?

[00:49:00.000] - Josh Hall

Honestly, I think my dad was not always… No, I never knew what my dad's thoughts were unless he would physically say something. I was never a good guesser, and I still am not a good guesser. But I do think that he felt an obligation or an opportunity to be the conduit to connect the history of off-road motor sports to the future of off-road motor sports. He always knew that he wasn't it. He was not going to be the future. But he felt that he could be the connection So when he had the opportunity to get the box, and it was literally a box, a big box, he jumped on it. And hindsight's being 2020, but all the moves that were made were the moves that initiated where the Off-Road Motorsports Hall of Fame is today.

[00:50:30.000] - Big Rich Klein

When I first got introduced to the Hall of Fame was right after I purchased Vora, and it was at the end of a Vegas to Reno race, and Rod had invited me to a meeting, and I want to say it was Reno or Sparks. It may have been the Harris Museum. I don't remember exactly where the meeting was at, but the people that were in that meeting, I felt overwhelmed that I was even in the same room. Nice. And he had asked me to participate in getting this thing started and being one of that group. And I was fresh and brand new into it. And I was like, yeah, this is I don't have enough experience to be in this room with everybody. And Walker Evans was the one that said, Rich, you have, look around and how many people are in this room are in the off-road racing? And I said, well, everyone. And I could say that because I just purchased Vora, right? And then he goes, how many people are into the rock sports, four-wheel drive side of the industry? And And Jeff Cummings was standing there and I said, well, Jeff and me and you, because he was competing at our Cal Rocks events back then before we rock.

[00:52:11.180] - Big Rich Klein

And he goes, exactly. That's why you're here. Wow. And I still balked and declined your dad's offer to be part of it when he was organizing it and trying to put it all together from that box. And I felt honored. But then about a year later, I was kicking myself in the butt for turning it down, the opportunity. And I feel very fortunate that, you know 20 years later, that I was given another chance to be part of it. But I do remember going to the... It was one of the early galas, and your daughter was actually in charge of the gala then. It was in Pomona. And I remember walking by the entrance, going to the Sheridan bar after the show. And I look in the room and there's all these people that I know that are doing something. And I'm like, I want to be in that room. What is this about? And then found out that it was the gala for the from Armoth. And so the next year, I made sure we had tickets. So when did you get involved more deeply instead of just being Rod Sun?

[00:53:47.880] - Josh Hall

That would have been... Well, Rod Sun is the title that proceeds, for the most things, everything I do. But that would have been... Well, I was in the same room at the Sheraton when you were, and I couldn't tell you what year that was. But I did sit on the voting committee on a number of occasions. Bob Bauer was very, very and instrumental and helping to move things forward with pop. So, Bob, I mean, everyone knows Bob Bauer. And Bob is such a special guy. When I had the opportunity to sit on the selection committee or the voting committee, I jumped on it and was a part of it for a number of years. And then as it moved eventually up to Reno, Emily Miller got a little more involved with it. And then dad knew that, if Orenhoff was going to continue its upward trajectory, it would require someone else. And so that's when he reached out to Mr. Mark MacMillan. And through Mark's professionalism and vision for the future, it's just really ramping up.

[00:55:38.800] - Big Rich Klein

Absolutely. Absolutely. Mark, I think, has done a phenomenal job as chairman of the board and really brought in some good people to help with the mission and the growth.

[00:55:56.620] - Josh Hall

And I'm not exactly sure what year I became a member of the board, but I believe this is my third three-year term. Okay. So seven years or something like that.

[00:56:13.080] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah, I think the internet said it was 2020 that you joined the board.

[00:56:18.620] - Josh Hall

There you go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. For the internet.

[00:56:21.100] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. Thank God for the internet.

[00:56:24.040] - Josh Hall

Google.

[00:56:25.680] - Big Rich Klein

Yeah. The Google told me. So where do you... Did you ask to be on the board, or did Mark ask you to be on the board? How did that happen?

[00:56:46.800] - Josh Hall

So as dad's illness, he suffered the last few years of his life with a disease called progressive supranuclear palsy. And that affected his... It's like a Parkinsonian's type of a disease. So as it progressed and he became less and less able to really do almost anything, he wanted Chad to pursue those things that were important in my dad's life that were racing related. And he wanted me to pick up the torch and take those responsibilities that he felt were important, that were not racing related. So that's when right at the tail end, dad died in 2019. So as he was nearing the end, that's when I became active as the family's representative with Rubicon Soda Spring, Inc. And then that's when I reached out and said, if I can be of service, I would like to do that on behalf of my father to Offer motor Sports Hall of Fame. So that's because pop asked me to do it. I said, okay Perfect.

[00:58:31.540] - Big Rich Klein

Okay. What was it like, personally, for you, having a dad that was iconic? Did it give you something to strive for, or did you Or do you always feel like, My God, I'm never going to get to that level?

[00:58:50.540] - Josh Hall

Yeah, I think both. Okay. I think it's very hard to follow in the footsteps of a legend when someone aspires to run a similar path.

[00:59:11.720] - Big Rich Klein

Right.

[00:59:14.660] - Josh Hall

So, both Chad and I, we enjoy what we do, and we don't need the recognition of anyone in order for us to enjoy what we But at the same time, we learned from Rod Hall everything. We learned everything that Rod Hall wanted us to know. He taught us. So we feel like not a bad teacher. And if we're able to, we're not going to have the same level of success that he had, but that's not what we want. What we're looking for is the continuation of the legacy of my dad and to have the same ethics I remember, dad would win. He would win a race. The next day, he would talk to whoever the Well, actually, at the award ceremony, he would give second place the award that he received in first place. Dad always did something above what was necessary, what were required. He went above that. He wasn't perfect and had a few enemies out there. But in the end, what I was able to see is that he was on Honest and trustworthy, and he, for the most part, was a competitor that we aspire to be just like.

[01:01:10.920] - Big Rich Klein

Awesome. That's phenomenal. I guess that's all you can ask for and all that he could ask for. You guys are great examples.

[01:01:29.020] - Josh Hall

Thank you.

[01:01:30.000] - Big Rich Klein

So I'd like to say thank you so much for spending the time and talking about your childhood and the passion that you have for off-road and life, because if you don't have a passion for life, you're not going to do anything. And obviously, you've done a lot. So I really appreciate seeing that.

[01:02:00.000] - Josh Hall

Thank you, Rich. Thank you for the opportunity and the offer to share in your wonderful venue of this podcast.

[01:02:11.080] - Big Rich Klein

Well, I just try to get the history out there so that people can understand what it takes to be in the off-road industry and hopefully motivate some enthusiast out there to go, wow, I'm going to do it. I'm going to jump in. I'm going to get involved, besides just being an enthusiast a spectator. Life is more enjoyable when you're actively involved in it than just spectating.

[01:02:38.560] - Josh Hall

Absolutely.

[01:02:40.640] - Big Rich Klein

All right. Well, Josh, thank you so much for spending the time and doing the interview, and I really appreciate it and really enjoy sitting on the board of directors with you at Ormhoff, and I'm really looking forward to the future of Ormhoff and what we can bring to the off-road community.

[01:02:58.480] - Josh Hall

Same here. I really I appreciate you.

[01:03:00.760] - Big Rich Klein

All right. You take care, and again, thank you.

[01:03:04.640] - Josh Hall

All right, Rich. Thank you.

[01:03:07.120] - Big Rich Klein

Well, that's another episode of Conversations with Big Rich. I'd like to thank you all for listening. If you could do us a favor and leave us a review on any podcast service that you happen to be listening on, or send us an email or a text message or a Facebook message, and let me know any ideas that you have, or if there's anybody that you have that you think would be a great guest, please forward the contact information to me so that we can try to get them on. And always remember, live life to the fullest. Enjoying life is a must. Follow your dreams and live life with all the gusto you can. Thank you.