Episode #38: Brian Hoffmeyer - SVP of Market Strategies - Beeline

We are thrilled to welcome Brian Hoffmeyer, SVP of Market Strategies at Beeline to Hiring University!   "Passionate about the extended workforce", Brian shares with us his thoughts on market trends related to technology innovation, contingent workforce management best practices, and the opportunity for improvement via process, legislation, compliance policy, and technology evolution.  This is an episode you don't want to miss!

"Our advice, and what we love guiding our clients through this, is no matter what you do, you have to have a well-set-up program to manage contingent labor.
You have an HR department to manage your full-time workers and you have to do the same for your contingent workforce! "
     - Brian Hoffmeyer

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Transcript

Brian Hoffmeyer

[00:00:00] Jon Beck: What's up everyone? Welcome to Hiring University, it's John Becker, host. Today we are lucky to have Brian Hoffmeyer, senior Vice President of Market Strategies at Beeline. Brian, what's up? How 

[00:00:11] Brian Hoffmeyer: are you? I'm great. I'm really excited, to be here and honored that you invited 

[00:00:15] Jon Beck: me.

[00:00:15] Thanks for being on the show. We appreciate you making the time. , I'm gonna assume that most people that are listening to our, uh, podcast in the staffing recruiting world, know of Beeline, maybe some more familiar than others. Give us just a quick, uh, background about Beeline and then your background as well, too.

[00:00:30] How'd you get into this wacky business way back when? 

[00:00:32] Brian Hoffmeyer: Sure, sure. No, glad, glad to. And yeah, never wanna assume. Uh, that's always a dangerous thing. Beeline. The world's largest independent extended workforce platform. That's a mouthful that I just said. But the way we look at ourselves is our software can be used to manage the end-to-end process for engaging all types of non-employees.

[00:00:53] And, and as I'm sure the listeners of this podcast, know, there are many different ways. That, companies are using non-employees and beeline endeavors to have a process that is, fit for purpose for all of them. So whether we're talking about hourly contingent workers, statement of work, high volume workforce in a warehouse or manufacturing plant, we have a tool for all of those things.

[00:01:15] And what's more, we very much have a focus on. Delivering a great user experience for all of the stakeholders, in this wacky world. I like the way you described that. Uh, you know, one of the things I think is both, interesting about the, the non-employee workforce. The extended workforce, compared to the, the permanent so-called permanent workforce is it's more complex because there are multiple actors.

[00:01:38] It's not just an employee or employee relationship. The client, our traditional client, the buyer of contingent labor, you get the supplier who's the actual employer of that labor, the worker themselves, and then often an M S P partner who is engaging with all three of those stakeholders.

[00:01:55] And so that drives a lot of complexity and our goal is that every one of those stakeholders has a great experience interacting with Beeline is given the tools they need to, to do the things they need to, because that ultimately results in, better outcomes for everyone. My current role with Bline, as you said, I'm s v p of Market Strategies, that's a mouthful of a title.

[00:02:16] I look after our partner ecosystem globally, which consists of a wide range of different kinds of partners. Those MSPs I was talking about. A large number of technology companies, ranging from really big organizations, , to very small organizations, but all of whom are adding something into the Beeline platform that it does not inherently have, as part of our functionality.

[00:02:38] And then most recently we've started working with, consultancies and, , supplier partners and that's how we came to, to know each other. I've been with the, the company for about 18 years now, and, uh, live right outside of Denver, Colorado. 

[00:02:51] Jon Beck: And via the IQ navigator days for those of those been around for a while, 

[00:02:55] Brian Hoffmeyer: correct?

[00:02:55] Correct. Yeah. The, uh, current bline organization, came together, about six years ago when, when Bline and IQ n two former competitors, merged. IQN was based in Denver, and that's who where I came from. And yeah, certainly it was an interesting time where we went from being, uh, you know, uh, sort of enemies to friends overnight.

[00:03:15] Jon Beck: There's a lot of money flowing into this space. You're obviously with one of the stalwarts in the industry. There's a lot of m and a activity that you guys are doing and developing. Give us a short, this may be a challenging question, but maybe a short, oral history of the market, where we came from, where we are today, and where you think it's heading.

[00:03:33] Because the, the rate of advancement in change is, seems to be. 

[00:03:37] Brian Hoffmeyer: Yeah, I mean there, there's a, a lot you, like you said, a lot to unpack there. Um, You know, when I came into this, you know, 18 years ago and really all of the major VMSs arose about the same time, beeline Field Glass IQ navigator, are all 22 to 23 years old.

[00:03:56] All came about for the same need to create automation and efficiency around this. All of a sudden big acceleration and the use of external labor by big companies. , 

[00:04:08] First and foremost has been the continued growth of the extended workforce, at companies of. You know, all types, all verticals, all sizes and all geographies. Simply put, companies can't get their product out the door no matter what that product is without their extended workforce. And, so the extended workforce has grown in terms of.

[00:04:32] What companies are spending on it. The percentage of the workforce, that is, is, uh, made up by, by non-employee workers as composed to employees. But I think most importantly and interestingly in its criticality to, getting work done, that has been the major change that we've seen, o over a considerable number of years, but really accelerating over the last few years.

[00:04:55] And, companies have realized, We can't do it without our contingent workers, and because they've had that realization. It's driven, adoption of, of tools like ours, of, external solutions like URSUS provides, MSPs, et cetera. And companies are really looking to make sure they've got their hands around this entire workforce and that they can answer.

[00:05:18] First basic questions about it, right? Like, how many workers do I have and what am I, what are they doing? Where are they? What am I paying them? Then moving on to more interesting questions around, at a strategic level. How should work get done in our company as we, our plans are to grow by X percent, expand into this new market.

[00:05:38] How do we accomplish that? And then at a tactical level, as a manager is saying, I need this thing done. How, what is the best answer to that? And it's not a, it's not, yes, no, it's not. There's a lot of gray area there and there's a lot of ways to answer it. An existing employee that has bandwidth and skills, somebody that's on the bench.

[00:05:59] Do I go external? And if I go external, how do I do that? Right? Do I, do I engage one or more individuals to augment my team? Do I outsource a whole scope of work? Do I, you know, go to a gig economy platform? There's just, there's a lot of answers to that. And, we are trying to guide our customers a around those things.

[00:06:19] And, with an increasing focus on. The contingent workforce being a talent related problem and challenge to solve. That's been another thing that we've really seen is, it used to be that no people won't be able to see me do the Heisman here on screen, but, HR and talent acquisition used to kind of give the, the Heisman the shove off to contingent work.

[00:06:37] They didn't want anything to do with it, and it was a procurement problem and challenge. We've seen, HR and talent acquisition realize they need to be involved because it's too big a part of the workforce to ignore. And so our clients that we would hold out , as best practices are ones that are, , combining those two disciplines, HR and procurement.

[00:06:58] Cause they both have a part to play here. HR and talent acquisition. Are good at managing talent and making those decisions where procurement helps with contracts and rates and pricing and all of those kinds of things. And so that's been a, a trend we've seen. Ultimately, you know, a lot of things we're focused on are around that talent decision because, anytime you're talking about people, that just creates complexity, right?

[00:07:20] It's one of the beautiful things about our business. 

[00:07:22] And then ultimately, once that person starts, you still don't know are they the right person for that job until they actually start working. And so we're endeavoring to help make those decisions better, faster. A big focus for us is, is managing what I call three sides of the triangle, right?

[00:07:40] What is the right combination of how much someone costs, the quality they deliver, and how fast I can find them. It used to be all about savings and it's not to say savings isn't important, and especially in whatever economic environment we have right now, , it's reared up again. But, if you save $5, but the person doesn't deliver quality, Have you really saved any money?

[00:08:03] And so a lot of, you know, you kind of asked about our m and a and. A lot of has been focused on some of these things I've been talking about. Uh, first a couple of years ago with our acquisition of joined up, , joined up provided the tools needed to manage high volume, shift based labor, in a really interesting way that focuses again on great experiences for all three parties involved.

[00:08:26] The buyer, the supplier, and the workers themselves, all again focused on getting. Work done and shifts filled, and making sure that everybody's aware of what needs to be done. And then, most recently we acquired utmost in, the fall of 2022. For those that don't know, utmost was a smaller organization, a few years old.

[00:08:45] Focused on coming at this v m s problem in a new way. And we acquired them for a few different reasons. One is it accelerated things that we were already trying to do with our platform, with a specific focus on, Great user experiences for, , both suppliers and workers that'll let us roll those things out, much faster, which hopefully is great news to some of the folks that are listening here.

[00:09:10] And then, a really cool, tool called Global Workforce Intelligence, which really helps customers get visibility very quickly into their whole workforce, combining both the non-employee and the employee in one place and letting companies make some of those decisions that I've been talking about.

[00:09:28] Jon Beck: That's a really good job, Brian. Unpacking a lot of information. Let me reciprocate here and respond to a couple things. Of course. Yeah, that you touched on them in your triangle, which is complex as it is, I imagine either surrounding it or Right. Snack dag in the middle is risk mitigation. Because a lot of the things that you talked about , in categorization of workers, is, we're making this stuff up as we go along, and a in a lot of cases, people are having to look back because they went way too far, way too fast and are having to redo it in some cases, paying significant fines, to undo, what has happened.

[00:10:02] Yes, it's interesting too that, of all the things that are part of the business motion and it is complex. that more often than not though you guys get graded on the things that while they matter, like user experience or use your interface like, oh, this button's here and this button's there and we think fill in the blank, they stink cuz of this.

[00:10:18] And it's like, well, you know, that's, it's, and it's important because it's that end user experience both for the back office that's managing it and for the worker that's, interfacing with it. But can you touch on a little bit, the risk factor. as you think about the market where there's on one end of the spectrum, fully managed service providers that has a tool like Beeline to the other end of the spectrum where company is maybe not the full end of the spectrum, but , a company that's ramping quickly considering buying the tool and managing it, and what the right decision and profile and considerations are when they think about that, 

[00:10:51] because that's a hard. 

[00:10:53] Brian Hoffmeyer: It really is. Yeah, it really is. Yeah, I Great point. First off, on, on risk and compliance, that's a another, trending topic and we're seeing, governments around the world and at all levels, they want their piece at the pie, they want to ensure that.

[00:11:10] Uh, workers are classified correctly, treated correctly, and that, taxes are paid correctly. And so I think we're gonna continue to see trends a around that. And I know we're gonna talk more about that, today. Um, so that that's, a huge thing. And what's more, especially for us.

[00:11:26] our customers are big organizations and they have their own internal policies that they need help comply, complying with, right? And you just, you can't do that without a, a system to create that on automation if you're trying to do it, via spreadsheets or using, your HR system configured in such a way to manage contingent labor.

[00:11:44] It may help some of it, but it's not. Do the specialized things that, an extend workforce platform like Beeline and can do. I think, that decision about how to manage, your program is, is a really complicated one. And I'll just give you some color, , around this, We've got, 350 plus clients and, , 70% or so of them use an M S P in some way, shape, or form.

[00:12:09] Mm-hmm. . Um, and that's a percentage that has actually been slowly. Increasing over the last few years, which is mm-hmm. , I think interesting. There's been a lot of, of talk, about the death of the M S P and, I actually couldn't disagree more. I've seen, we have incredibly valuable M S P partners, as I'm sure you do as well, and.

[00:12:29] They, they're evolving in their business, as the world changes. Um, you know, is there 

[00:12:35] Jon Beck: reason, sorry to interrupt, but is there reason, because that number surprises me as well too. I would not have guessed that. I would've maybe said 50 50. Is that number high? Because of the complexity and companies are saying, , I just don't have the domain experience.

[00:12:46] Right? Yeah. 

[00:12:47] Brian Hoffmeyer: Yeah. I think, I think that's a huge part of it. Again, we've got a wide mix and some of our largest, most complex clients, don't have an external M S P, and I'm using that word external very deliberately, because no matter what you do, you have to have an ms. P like organization managing the contingent workforce because of its complexity, you know?

[00:13:11] So it is an external organization can do it or you can create a team internally to do it. What doesn't work? Full stop is going to like a, a manager self-service, environment where managers just to get, to make their own decisions supported by some piece of software. Like, we've probably all seen that.

[00:13:29] Where what could, what could possibly go wrong? . Yeah, exactly. And what we see happens in those cases is just, , the managers just revert to old behaviors. Potentially less than ideal and expose the company to a number of risks, whether they're they're cost risk or compliance risk. Our advice and what we love guiding our clients through this is again, no matter what you do, you've gotta have a well set up program to manage the, the contingent labor.

[00:13:57] Just like you, you wouldn't, not have an HR department to manage your full-time workers. You've gotta do the same for contingent. Hope that, does that help answer the question? 

[00:14:06] Jon Beck: No, it does. And I wanna expand on that by throwing some more gas in the fire here. You used the term, in your introductory comments, stakeholders, and there are quite a few of them in this whole process and equation.

[00:14:18] Mm-hmm. when it comes to data ownership. Especially around things like tracking diversity. Yeah. There are lines of demarcations and responsibilities between and amongst clients. Supplier program. You guys are really the glue or the facilitator of that with a tool. 

[00:14:38] Let's talk about diversity, specifically about the responsibility. and who has ownership of the data part? I'll give you an example. We live, we do a lot of business in California. There was , a ruling, I guess that came out yesterday from the state around, diversity, employment, and pay rates.

[00:14:53] The sum, the summary of the ruling, or I guess the statement was the owner, the ownership or responsibility was on the staffing supplier versus the client, which is really interesting. And we do that anyway, so it's okay. But I have to imagine there are a lot of people that just aren't even prepared or can Yeah.

[00:15:10] Accumulator present the data to do. , so I know I'm bouncing around here, but , any like best practices or examples that you can give? Yeah, because it's complic, it's complicated. 

[00:15:19] Brian Hoffmeyer: It is, is complicated and , it's also incredibly, incredibly important. Our view is that, one of the best ways to increase the overall diversity of your workforce is to drive diversity into your contingent workforce.

[00:15:32] By its very nature, it's contingent. It turns over, and so, um, you can very quickly make a difference and move the needle towards whatever your goals are. And if you're, Measuring the diversity of your contingent workforce, and let's say it's 20% of your overall workforce, just for easy numbers, do you truly know if you're meeting your diversity goals?

[00:15:52] And so really important topic, you also hit on something like it's on all of us in this world to help here, right? It's no sa my view, no single person's responsibility. Now, from a legal perspective, it may come down that it's that way, but, as a V M S, our M S P partners, and the suppliers all have to work together to make sure that this information is captured and captured in the right way.

[00:16:14] And to really reassure people that when we're asking these questions we're we want to use the it for good, not for not to, not against them, right? Cuz their lived experience has often been the opposite of that. , I think when it comes to diversity tracking itself, it. . Ultimately the owner of that is the worker themselves and in terms of how they want to be represented.

[00:16:37] So the easiest thing to do is to give them agency to, do just that. And so that's the way Beeline is approaching it, is giving workers tools for, to manage their own identity. And not just diversity identity, but even just like how do they want to be contacted? Cause Most of the time the contractor's only interaction in this process when it comes to the system is potentially to enter timecards.

[00:17:01] That's it. Um, and, and Sunday's not even that if timecards are being entered in some other, third party tool or time clock or what have you. , and so that's our approach is to give the contractor a place to go. And that has a number of benefits. You know, one. It helps our clients be able to get in touch with their contractors because like, one of the things we learned in Covid, , right when it started, is like I, companies didn't even know how to get in contact with their workers.

[00:17:27] Yeah, yeah. . Um, and that was a huge problem that people spend a lot of long nights solving. And so that's one. And then beyond that, if they so choose to identify. You know, whatever their, gender sexual orientation, all of those kinds of things are again, if they so choose. And it's really important for me to be clear that we are not using that in information at an individual level.

[00:17:52] Right. It's for to roll up, to be able to say client A, B, C, you are this percent diverse. 

[00:17:57] Jon Beck: Yep. It's, amazing how many times we get asked questions. Or access to information that by law we cannot provide. And the lack of understanding we still have a long way to go. Um, yeah, 

[00:18:09] Brian Hoffmeyer: I think one, one thing that, you know, you said, said, triggered this, but.

[00:18:15] In our industry. I, I guess you experienced this too, like there's so much, , that thinking that's based on things that happened years ago and still haven't, and have changed. , like people are still referring back to co-employment rulings, and making decisions based on something that happened in 2000, and they're making these misguided decisions about how to treat contractors as a result.

[00:18:38] I'm not a lawyer, but co-employment is not necessarily an evil word. There are benefits to it. Yeah. And when it comes to diversity, sometimes it results in decisions where, , contractors of all types, regardless of diversity status, are treated as less than. employees. And that's a huge mistake, in my view.

[00:18:56] Yeah. 

[00:18:57] Jon Beck: Brian, you work for a technology company? Uh, yeah. At the end of the day. But you talk to a lot of, obviously, everyday people that are living and breathing what's happening in the labor market and specific to contingent labor. Every day there's a new headline and a new term. There was the great resignation, the great hiring, quiet, quitting, and hiring and firing, the headlines of layoffs, but yet the American labors type, um mm-hmm.

[00:19:19] are things good or bad, right. . 

[00:19:23] Brian Hoffmeyer: Oh boy. I, you know, like every time I get this question, I, I, if I could answer it with some degree of certainty, I would probably be sitting on a beach somewhere, you know, not working. But here's, here's what we're seeing, one is that holistically across our client base, we are seeing.

[00:19:43] Some decline in the use of contingent labor, decreased number of assignments year over year kind of thing. I think that that is, is temporary. Like my personal view is that the world is trying to talk our itself into a recession for some reason and mm-hmm. , , maybe it's because like with the ending of Covid as, as much of it's still a pandemic, but.

[00:20:08] Not like it was the press looking for something to talk about. I think whatever ha this is gonna be relatively temporary and will be a blip and will be followed by an uptick. I think we are seeing a shifting in some cases. You can't, Open a web browser without seeing a headline about some large firm making a big, layoff.

[00:20:26] Right. But the thing is, there's still a huge demand for jobs. There are more jobs than there are people. I think we're seeing a shift of where a lot of those jobs are, maybe from some of the big companies that overhired, expanded too quickly to smaller and smaller organizations. To me, 

[00:20:43] Jon Beck: The best ex the best term, or I guess, explanation of what's happening right now.

[00:20:46] And I wish I came up with myself, but this is really a co it's like a hangover from Covid. Yeah. All the money that we pumped into the system, people over extended with hiring. , we for the first time embraced and tried the remote work thing and now everything's sort of settling in and, there's recalibration as part of that, or recovery, I guess.

[00:21:04] I would agree with your comments and I think, , There's a lot of group thinking and psychology from what's happening in the headlines, but the data will ultimately prevail. Yeah. Brian, with the time we have left, let's go to the speed round and ask you a couple questions, , just to get your sense of, , on personal note and views of the world of the big topics.

[00:21:20] Lets start with, uh, your, your choice of, of meeting tools. Are you a teams or 

[00:21:24] Brian Hoffmeyer: a zoom? I am a teams person. It's not necessarily totally by choice. That's our default, tool. But actually, like in all seriousness, I teams, it's been interesting to watch the evolution of teams from three years ago, right when the pandemic was starting to what it is now.

[00:21:39] Almost a different piece of software. Um, and it's become an indispensable tool for us at beeline to, to manage our day-to-day lives. Yeah. 

[00:21:47] Jon Beck: And conveniently bundled into a lot of other Microsoft products. Exactly. Uber or Lyft? 

[00:21:52] Brian Hoffmeyer: Lyft. I think, uh, you know, , I, I think I still, I've always loved Lyft's image.

[00:21:57] I mean, going back to the days when there were pink mustaches on mustache. Uh, you know, that that was appealing to me. And I got a great deal on, , on Lyft Pink membership through my credit card, and I've been loving what that's given me. Nice chat. G p 

[00:22:11] Jon Beck: t. It's everywhere. I have a friend of mine, that is on LinkedIn, posting a blog post every day, and I started to read him.

[00:22:18] I'm like, he's based basically using Chachi Bihi, right? Every single, every. Yeah. You guys doing anything 

[00:22:23] Brian Hoffmeyer: with it? Looking at it? Yeah, we're looking at it, looking at how we can use it to automate things. Like you can already ask chat g p t to write a pretty darn good job description, right? Yep.

[00:22:31] And like, it's, it's directionally correct. And then can be modified. I'm not a super technical person, but like some of our folks that are, have just incorporated into their daily workflow in a really interesting way. And it's just creating automation and , one of my views about AI is that currently at least, and hopefully for the foreseeable future, for all of us humans, is.

[00:22:54] Human and machine teams working together work best, and provide the best outcomes. And I think that's how you using chat, g p t, like I had it, a friend of mine asked for help with her cover letter the other day for a job she was applying to. And she sent me her letter. I put it in chat, G P t, it rewrote it.

[00:23:09] It was better, but it wasn't perfect. And then I, , spent. probably half the time modifying it that I would've otherwise. Yeah. Great example. 

[00:23:17] Jon Beck: You are a Colorado Buffalo with the new coach Am and Deion Sanders under over seven wins this year. 

[00:23:24] Brian Hoffmeyer: Uh, over seven wins. Yeah. Were they one in 10 last year?

[00:23:29] One in 10. So, I mean, there's nowhere to go but up. I mean it's certainly gonna be entertaining for sure. I think that, Like he's recruited super well, lots of great transfers. Doing all of that. You don't snap your fingers and get a team right. Like that. The team has to coalesce around that.

[00:23:46] But I think over seven, like I'm personally be happy if we get back to bowl eligibility next year. Yeah. I'll talk to you next December. Yeah, we'll see if I was right. 

[00:23:57] Jon Beck: Pay transparency gonna make a difference and help 

[00:23:59] Brian Hoffmeyer: or.

[00:24:04] I think so. my personal view is transparency is, and visibility into things is generally helpful for everyone as you can make a more informed decision. Fair enough. 

[00:24:16] Jon Beck: The best boss you ever had and why? 

[00:24:19] Brian Hoffmeyer: This is hard. I've had a lot of amazing bosses, over the years. So I really, you sent these questions over and I was, I really kind of debated this, but I, I think back to actually my first boss, in, the industry, one of the founders of IQ Navigator.

[00:24:36] Hopefully she's listening and knows I'm talking about her, but, and we remain friends to this day. She just taught me so much about. Managing people, , in a way that was both, fair and equitable to them, and beneficial to the company. And it continues to inform a number of things that I do with the people that work for me every day.

[00:24:57] Jon Beck: Excellent, and we'll get you outta here on this with our way back machine. Question, if you could go back to the point in time when you started your career with all the knowledge and experience and things that you've learned sitting here today, what one piece of advice would you give young Brian starting out?

[00:25:12] Brian Hoffmeyer: Yeah, and it's interesting cuz I, when I was in college, I, my, my college experience had nothing to do with what I do now. I was a pre-med major and, I applied to get into medical school for three years, and was devastated when I. Didn't. And so I think first and foremost it was, it will be okay.

[00:25:29] And then ultimately it's to, expect the unexpected and passion comes from unexpected sources. For me, like when I was an eight year old kid, this is not what I imagined myself doing, . I wanted to be a firefighter or a butterfly or whatever, , probably change day to day.

[00:25:48] I have developed such an incredible passion for what we do and the importance of it, that, it's just been incredibly fulfilling to. Well, 

[00:25:56] Jon Beck: that passion comes through for sure, and certainly in your comments and, have enjoyed the conversation and thank you for making time. For our listeners, of course, if they want to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do so?

[00:26:07] Yeah, 

[00:26:07] Brian Hoffmeyer: I mean LinkedIn is certainly fine. I I also am open to accepting invitations and then my email address is super easy. It's fff@bline.com. And feel free to, to shoot me an email. Awesome. 

[00:26:18] Jon Beck: Brian, thank you for coming on the show and sharing you your. And, we'll have to get together, in next December or January to see how your buffs do.

[00:26:27] Sounds good for our listeners, as always, keep the faith, keep grinding, keep safe, and we will see you next time on hiring University. Thanks 

[00:26:35] Brian Hoffmeyer: again, Bryan. Thank you very much.