S10E5 - From Bribes to Belonging: This is how a “conversational architect” quietly built Atlanta’s Podcast Community and kept it thriving!!

A rocky first email thread turned into a decade of building rooms where creators actually want to linger. I sit down with Mark; producer, engineer, and self‑styled conversational architect to unpack how Podcast Atlanta grew from a reluctant meetup with free pizza into a reliable hub that puts our city on the podcasting map.

We dig into craft before hype: how a director’s ear shapes a better interview, the edit notes that protect story flow, and the quiet logistics that keep events sustainable month after month. Mark lays out his early growth levers (bribes, proximity, repeatable formats) and the bigger unlock designing for stages. Launching a show, growing an audience, re-branding, or pivoting a business each needs its own doorway. That programming lens, paired with genuine place identity, is how a community endures beyond a single host or season.

We talk re-brands without cringe by inviting member votes and shipping shy, then iterating. We trace the industry’s surge from $75M to a projected $2.4B in ad spend and what that means for differentiation now that “everyone has a podcast.” We also go deep on openness: why RSS still matters, how YouTube fits the funnel, and how to meet listeners where they watch without ceding control. Along the way, we share personal stakes... retirement plans, post‑COVID social batteries, and the odd Budweiser in an editor lounge because community is built by humans with limits and preferences, not just metrics and logos.

To listen to Mark's new Podcast - https://podcastatlanta.com/habitat/

Pod-Tour RSVP - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/atlanta-podcasters-meetup-tickets-1736086564649?aff=ebdssbdestsearch

Podcast Atlanta Meetup - https://www.facebook.com/groups/PODATL/

Join The Newsletter - https://podcastatlanta.com/

Chapters

• 0:00 Rocky start, real friendship
• 2:50 What is a conversational architect?
• 5:10 Birth of Podcast Atlanta
• 6:40 Growth playbook: pizza, proximity, panels
• 9:20 Designing for every stage of creators
• 12:20 Rebrand strategy and Atlanta pride
• 15:30 The future: retirement and evolving podcasting
• 18:10 Industry shift: from $75M to $2.4B
• 21:20 On friendship, roles, and post‑COVID community
• 24:30 Rapid fire: pivots, songs, growth hacks
• 27:45 New show drop and key dates
• 30:20 Event details and final invites

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Well, when we first got introduced, it was a little bit of a rocky start. I don't know if you remember. You don't? Okay, that's that that's great. Because we we're the best of friends now. But there was uh uh somebody who was after you to coordinate the events in Atlanta and I'm gonna get it.

SPEAKER_00: 0:26

Okay, I'm gonna get it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 0:50

Hi Mach. How you doing?

SPEAKER_01: 0:52

Hey, Paula, it has been a while.

SPEAKER_02: 0:55

It really is, it really has a whole month.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00

A whole month? And I know you've been after me to talk on the record for a while because we talk so much off the record and you keep saying, Mock, I gotta get you on. We gotta we gotta let the know the world know. About Mark.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13

I mean I mean we gotta let talk shit with people know about Mark because I talk a lot of shit with Mark on the daily. Not very daily, but daily. So it was about time he came to talk some shit on talk shit with P. With talk shit with P. My god, I'll I'll throw up with all Mog.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33

Well, as a subscriber to your show myself, I know you've been asking a lot of common questions because it looks like she's done she's done research, people. She has written down questions. I haven't seen these, and I'm a little worried because she's not flipping through. That being said, my research is listen to the last few episodes. So I listen to loyalty, I listen to Gordon, I listen to Joe.

SPEAKER_02: 1:53

I always say Portfress is giving me my podcast community and I played through Portface. I got to make Mark and then who Mark ended giving me my Atlanta podcast community. So and when I say just like how the Mobad Mopad boys take care of me, Mark definitely takes care of me. We're gonna get into that in a bit, but um so I found something very interesting when I was doing my research on you because I know I don't research people until 30 minutes before inter before interviewing them because I want it to be fresh in my mind because I don't remember shit. I remember shit I shouldn't be remembering and then the important shit I don't remember. So I found out that you are a conversational architect.

SPEAKER_01: 2:42

And uh Wow, she has done some research.

SPEAKER_02: 2:47

So to me it was like, what the f is that? So I'm asking when you tell people that do they normally know what you're talking about? Or are they like me like looking at your side and is like, Did you just come up with that shit? Like, you know, sometimes people make their own titles.

SPEAKER_01: 3:04

Sure, sure. I came up with that to kind of expand upon the thing and people ask, like, what do you do with podcasting? And I've always said I'm a podcast director, and I've been a podcast director for nine years. And people ask, What is that? What's a podcast director? I'm like, Well, I hop on and I direct the flow of conversation between the the host and the the co-host and the guest, as it were, and I listen for what the the audience would be listening to, as well as making edit notes for the editors to to cut some things, move some things around, and and really kind of follow the flow with it. So that's where I said, I'm I'm a conversational architect. Or sometimes I say I'm a conversational data scientist.

SPEAKER_02: 3:40

Data sound. Will you be controlling this tons, directing this song?

SPEAKER_01: 3:45

Oh, I don't want you to know what she has written on this pad here.

SPEAKER_02: 3:52

And I kept on trying to make sure I say architect right, because I I have my mouth has a different way with words. And most of you, including Mark, sometimes they don't understand what words I'm saying because again my accent and the way I talk, so I was like, architect, architect, I kept but as you said, um podcast director, uh you also uh engineer, a data guy, all these amazing titles in in through your life, right? So how did you just wake up one morning and say, you know what? I wanna run I wanna build the biggest podcast meetup in the world. I'm gonna say that because I am part of that, so we are claiming the biggest in the world. None of you like it is what it is. So like walk me through that pivot, like when did you know it was time to create reluctantly.

SPEAKER_01: 4:46

I'll say that w uh uh right off the bat, reluctantly. And people have heard it over the couple years, because we've been doing this almost ten years now, that I'm so you know, reluctant to do it. And with you know, event leaders such as yourself come on and really take the charge, it makes it easier for me, but I got started reluctantly.

SPEAKER_02: 5:02

There was a time I keep saying this what we like.

SPEAKER_01: 5:07

Reluctantly. Well, now see that you said it you had me saying it yet. It it started with there was uh a co-founder of a big national podcasting conference, and they were coming to Atlanta, and they reached out to me at another local Atlanta podcaster, they wanted to host a meetup. And that other podcaster was busy, wasn't available, and and I had ideas on on what to how to do it. And in April of 2016 or 2015, after to check the records, uh we held our first event down at Atlantic Station, and people loved it and like, oh, this is great. When do we do this again? This is before Podcast Atlanta was a thing. And I remember saying, like, I'm all for it. I just don't want to be the one that organizes it. Well, you know, a few months go by, nothing happens. Like, well, I guess it's gonna be me that organizes it. And that's how it got started.

SPEAKER_02: 5:59

And it still says that I'm not gonna be the one organizing it, but if Yeah, yeah. We'll be moving. I love you, like check us out, like focus on lunch. That's funny, that's home. So you founded Podalunti in 2016, and I believe the last time it was 1,300 members, beeping and counting, you're growing. Growth like that doesn't happen overnight, and we know running a community, building a community. It takes a lot. It takes a lot. So what worked for you, right? What flopped, what surprised you the most doing this, building this community, creating this community?

SPEAKER_01: 6:40

Bribes. So honestly, I'll start with uh bribes. When we first did a few uh the first meetups, I think from the first year or two, we had pizza, you know, free pizza at at all the events. This is back before we had sponsors, before we had of rowing, as basically me funding pizzas. Like, all right, you know, we'll have pizzas, we'll have drinks, and basically it was it was bribery that got people to to keep coming out month after month. And that's how it started. Also, I specifically found a location that was close and convenient to me. I live on the outskirts of Metro Atlanta, on the the border of Marietta and Atlanta, on the Marietta side. So I found uh a venue that was close and convenient for me, because I knew if this was something that I was going to be doing monthly, which I did too for the first few years, it was all me all monthly. And we did meetups, we did uh or social tech meetups, we did presentations and panels, and basically it was me cording everything. It was a lot of work, but it was through bribes of pizza and drinks, as well as making it convenient for me uh to get to it, because I wouldn't have to get there early, set things up, as well as stay late and break things down closer to home, uh made things a little easier.

SPEAKER_02: 7:51

Yeah, because if you're in Holland how things are fall off in the traffic, yeah. But I I I have to say the bribe makes sense because it still bribes me, and you know it's very easy to bribe me. All you gotta have is say it.

SPEAKER_01: 8:08

Beer Red Bull?

SPEAKER_02: 8:10

But not beer.

SPEAKER_01: 8:10

Oh, Budweiser. I don't like saying Budweiser. The horrible beer that I appreciate that you drink it, and also you you drink like the biggest ones that they have. I I don't even know if they sell the grocery stores. You gotta go into like the back of the gas station, like, alright, I'll take some. This is the Budweiser for ball. Oh, I need several, so yes. Budweiser horrible.

SPEAKER_02: 8:32

I must say the highlight of portraits for me this year was Mark um had his his own room, the editor room, where people I I don't know if everybody was allowed to go in there with just editors.

SPEAKER_01: 8:46

It was uh is the editor's lounge set up for editors. I guess really anybody could go in there.

SPEAKER_02: 8:50

Somebody's an editor. Did they have editors?

SPEAKER_01: 8:52

Yeah, we had editors on the badge. Thank you, Chris Cremosos, for setting up the whole editor track as well as designating not just, oh, I'm an attendee, but like, hey, I'm a creator, I'm an editor, I'm a producer. So he he really kind of took it.

SPEAKER_02: 9:04

Yeah, which I love. This podcast does different, right? I think we had I I I love that. So in his room, they had fridge and he was like, I have bad ways and red bull for you. The other oh my god. No, this is the Mopad boys, they'll just have beer. They won't have bad ways for me, but they'll have beer. The fact that he took initiative, even though he doesn't like badways or even buying bad boys, but he did it for me. This is love over here.

SPEAKER_01: 9:31

Yeah, but the Mopad guys, they had good beer. You didn't drink so credit to them.

SPEAKER_02: 9:36

I mean, I still drink it.

SPEAKER_01: 9:37

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_02: 9:38

And the good thing is they want to expand all you on this side. So when I take a beer, by the time I reach that center, I get stopped so many often by the time I get there I'm done with the beer. So I take from that to come back to this. It worked excellent. What's one lesson from building a community that you wish every podcaster knew before they started creating communities? Because this is there's so many communities. Everybody like wakes up and they're like, you're in there and you're like, is this even really a community of just people in?

SPEAKER_01: 10:18

Right. Yeah, I did it. I get it.

SPEAKER_02: 10:21

But everything this is community. And I'm saying this because I've been around some and walked out of some. I'm just saying some You say one point.

SPEAKER_01: 10:33

There's a couple that if I were to pick out the top point, it would be to recognize that every community member is they're at a point that's important for them and their life. That instant moment in time. Whether it's on a on an upside, a downside, whether they're launching a show, whether they're growing a show, whether they're in the last season of the show and they're pivoting and moving on to something else, everyone is in the most important part of their lives in that particular instance. And all the people in the community, they may not match up with those points in their lives. And I find that as a community leader, as a community organizer, as a community facilitator, it's good to have multiple avenues, conduits, ways in which that people can interact with each other at whatever their level happens to be. And maybe that's not at every event, but if if you're again coordinating events like I do, but maybe uh certain events specialize to people that are starting, or people that are growing, or people that are actively networking, or people that are doing a production, or people that are are launching a business, or people that are are pivoting their business, or people that are branding or rebranding. I think it's important to keep in mind that you need to have something for everybody, but you can't serve everybody all the time. It's it's important to let them know that where they're at matters and that you want to help and facilitate that through your community, but you may have to to come around to it. So if that event isn't for them, maybe the next one is.

SPEAKER_02: 12:08

I love that. And I think that's one thing I love about Professor Rentables, we try to involve our uh members and ask them what type of events they like, and we try to do differently. Always the brewery always win. Like of course now, but if we could do them all the time in the brewery, trust me, we would, but we want to make sure that we do cater to everybody. Um, so we we we sometimes do the virtual, we sometimes have speakers, we sometimes have, you know, at studios where people can get a look at the studios that are available for them. So we try to do that, and that's what one thing I I like about that. And it never hurts when it's free pizza or beer, I'm just saying. I will go anyway as long as there's beer. And not so much for the pizza, I couldn't care this. But he does try to feed me. He'll be like, Paula, you mean to eat your teacher?

SPEAKER_01: 12:56

Whether there's food or not, I always make sure that I feed Paula. And for legal reasons, I can't provide alcohol at the events. But also I will say normally there is a cooler that's dragged behind me. I'm like, oh, did did I leave that off in the corner?

SPEAKER_02: 13:09

Somewhere. Because Paula is noisy just going through shit, she just make of tongues.

SPEAKER_01: 13:14

Oh no, no, it's not just you, Paula, it's it's others as well. That's sometimes uh like a a drink or two to just you know help, especially some of the social networking. It's weird. Podcasters were verbal people, we're conversational people, but many of us, myself included, are really outgoing people.

SPEAKER_02: 13:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 13:31

And sometimes people need different, uh, different ways in order to to be comfortable.

SPEAKER_02: 13:35

I've noticed that. And and and I'm always shifting them like, but you all love to talk, so talk. I talk, and they're just looking at me, saying that's how they have me. I just make people talk. But um we with that growth that you have with Port Casavanta, right? Like the way it has been going ever since. There's no standing still, right? With a lot of girls like like me with talk she weepy when growth comes, eventually you have to rebrand or pivot or or shift. And as we recently had our new, you know, match and we we just rebranded. So what point or what like what moments do you wake up and say, okay, today's the day to to switch things up? Like whenever you do them, like is there something specific that comes to mind? Or you just wake up and be like, you know what? I don't no longer like this name, we're gonna change.

SPEAKER_01: 14:28

Well, the podcast Atlanta name has a lot of strength behind it. Uh so I certainly wasn't gonna get rid of that. That being said, we coming up on our 10th year now, there will be some shifts, there will be some changes. We are going to like lean on and capitalize on the uh the network and strength that we build. And when I say capitalize, this isn't so much you know like for me, but more for Atlanta. In fact, that was a big reason why I started Podcast Atlanta, because back then, nine, ten years ago, when people thought of podcasting, they thought of like for New York City or LA, Atlanta, even though we had House Stuff Works and some of the biggest podcasting networks in the nation here at Atlanta, people really didn't think of Atlanta that way. And that was a big reason why, because I was working in podcasting. I wanted to put Atlanta on the on the map, as it were. But as far as like when to shift, when to pivot, I find that myself, and this is this is a negative on me personally, I've been involved with a few distributed brands that were kind of loosely connected, connected in mission, but not in name and and not in organization. And uh that that's a lot of work for for for nothing. Uh not really for nothing, it's a lot of work trying to swim upstream, as it were. And and now I realized, you know, we can we can centralize things, we can consolidate a lot of stuff and help a lot of people out through Podcast Atlanta. So we started that this year with, as you said, the rebranding. You know, we've got the the the new logos, uh, the little logos I love.

SPEAKER_02: 15:58

And particularly the commun, like not the community per se, but there were votes, there were votes for the path. You did put a few out on uh, I believe our community for people to vote. So the fact that it was involving the community, he just didn't make it by himself. I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 16:14

Oh yeah, I had a designer, but I'm not I'm not a designer myself. I tell people I'm not colorblind, I'm just kind of color apathetic. I generally don't care. It's one of these things I I know what I like when I see it, but I really don't know how to communicate that effectively. And that's what I told the designer before I hired them. I'm like, I know what I like, but yeah, so to help with that, like, oh, these are some good final designs. I knew what elements I wanted. I wanted the Atlanta City skyline, of course, which we always had. Uh I put the king and queen in there, which we didn't have before on the north side of Atlanta and stand out for uh to us. This particular view, you really can't see. In fact, the king and the queen where they're at, like, but the buildings, any Atlanta person can look at the skyline and recognize the buildings, and then they're like, wait a minute, these two buildings are next to each other, like, yeah, I know, but it looked good in the low. You'll recognize the buildings, but not the the skyline. But yeah, I the community response. In fact, the uh in the peach with the mic. The peach with the mic, that was somebody's idea because we had a had a microphone, and somebody mentioned uh a peach, and then I thought, oh, how do we do a peach with a with a microphone? And there we go.

SPEAKER_02: 17:22

I love that. I love that. And funny enough, you kind of jumped a little bit on the future, right? So I wanted to ask.

SPEAKER_01: 17:29

Almost like I jumped on purpose.

SPEAKER_02: 17:30

I know, like it's like, did he really pick on my nose? No, I know because it's all the way down there, and you probably can't read my handwriting. But long game thinking, right? Ten years from now, what does the legacy not only of Podcast Atlanta but also of Magdie, the man himself, look like?

SPEAKER_01: 17:50

Wow, in I'm 50 now, so in 10 years I'll be 60. Oh yeah. I plan to be fully retired by then.

SPEAKER_02: 17:57

You'll be visiting me in Europe with your family.

SPEAKER_01: 18:00

Sure. That that's all we'll be doing. That's what we'll be doing.

SPEAKER_02: 18:04

Yeah, it we'll be bringing Portal like, oh man, if you're in Europe and you used to one time be podcaster than that uh come and go.

SPEAKER_01: 18:12

Wait. But yeah, 10 years from now, that's something I've been uh been thinking about because I do want to be fully retired, you know, at 60. I I live a comfortable life as it is right now. But you know, with 401ks being able to pull out at 59 and a half, I'm like, all right, at at that point, why why are you working beyond uh beyond 59 and a half years or 60 years? So yeah, that's really not a podcasting thing. That's a me personal thing. Like, hey, I plan to be fully for me. For podcast Atlanta. For Podcast Atlanta, I hope it uh sticks around. So we've been around for 10 years, and hopefully at the end of the the next 10 years, it'll be uh a strong enough organization with a lot of vision and mission behind it and strong people behind it that it will continue on.

SPEAKER_02: 18:58

So yeah, if you're in a land bringing your your your kids, the younger generation, because we are eventually gonna be retiring and moving. So we need the younger generation to keep it moving and keep bringing younger and younger. I feel like that's the only way to keep going.

SPEAKER_01: 19:16

But um well, also that and podcasting itself has evolved. So I've been podcasting for 13 years now, and Podcast Atlanta is nine and a half years old. I've been professionally podcasting for about nine and a half years around the time I started Podcast Atlanta because it was my job and I wanted to kind of hang out and and chat with people that are also podcasting, whether it was their job or maybe it was a hobby. And uh yeah, I wanted to have uh uh a strong thing to to be able to lean on. Where was I going with that? I'm sorry, I totally lost myself.

SPEAKER_02: 19:53

When we're talking about the young idea to bring the young idea.

SPEAKER_01: 19:56

Right, yeah. So the the definition, thank you. The definition of podcasting has changed because before it was, and I guess technically still is uh a media file, typically audio, syndicated on the RSS feed. Nowadays, when you talk to people about podcasts, oh back then you had to educate people what a podcast was. Now people think of podcasting like, oh yeah, I love watching my favorite podcast on YouTube.

SPEAKER_02: 20:17

Which technically I sometimes in a smug bill, I'm like, no, that's YouTube, and it is mini. And I right if you're watching it, it's not a podcast. I'm sorry, you that's a talk show, that's whatever. I'm sorry, a podcast. I need to listen. Like you're watching, just say you're watching a talk show.

SPEAKER_01: 20:31

Well, they had audio podcast or uh video podcasts, but they were still syndicated, so you can subscribe on anything. And that's the great thing about podcasting. It's open RSS fee. There's no one company that can that can shut it down. They can have distribution platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify and and a lot of the other ones, but you know, it's not any one company that that owns it. Like YouTube is is owned by Google and YouTube. If they want to shut it down, they shut it down and you have nothing to but that being said, I think podcasting, the idea and the definition is uh should evolve because as consumers, as listeners, as content consumers, they they listen to podcasts, they they watch Instagram reels, they watch long form and now more short-term content on on YouTube. And I think that that podcasting needs to uh meets to encompass and incorporate all that. Before it used to be like, oh, it's it's us, and then there's a podcasters, and then there's a YouTubers, but now that it's been kind of merging, and I'm just now acknowledging that myself because so a lot of the stuff I do now, as we're doing with this show, is with video, and you have the video content. Well, why not put the video out there? So I uh although myself is evolving and hope to be retired in in 10 years, uh, I think Podcast Atlanta hopefully will be around. But the the idea and the concept of the podcast, as it continues to evolve, I hope that podcast Atlanta evolves with it.

SPEAKER_02: 22:00

Rabba, so you may I have two two questions that I want to dig in for what you say. Sure. One, you have been podcasting for you save nine and a half years.

SPEAKER_01: 22:10

Uh professionally, uh but podcasting for like 13.

SPEAKER_02: 22:13

Okay, there you go 13. So what's the biggest uh shift or jump you have seen? Because you come from them days where some of us never know what the fuck to now where even when I started in 2020, people were getting excited when they yeah, I have a podcast, but now you meet almost everybody has a podcast, right? So what's the biggest shift you have seen as a person? And I I and let's scratch video, I'm tired of hearing personal.

SPEAKER_01: 22:41

Yeah. Uh well to set the stage, when I started podcasting, the domestic ad spend was$75 million a year.$75 million. That's it. Now the domestic ad spend is projected to be$2.4 billion next year. So podcasting has like grown tremendously. So although I have grown and podcast Atlanta has grown, we haven't grown nearly as fast as the entire industry has. Although we've put I do feel the podcast Atlanta has put Atlanta on the map with uh with podcasting. When people think of what are the biggest cities for podcasting, they think of Atlanta. And I I like to think that uh we had a large part of that. But yeah, it's uh it's it's grown. It's grown a lot. The biggest thing is now I don't have to tell people that aren't podcasting how to listen to it. If I say, Oh, there's a podcast, they're like, Oh, what's it called? And they look it up. Yeah, back in the day, you had to say, show me your phone. See, there's an app on here called Call Podcast. Back in the day there was iTunes and yeah, it was just and and things have shifted and have shifted uh since 2020, some of the different mergers and changes and rebrandings and and things like that. So that was a big thing is I no longer have to tell people what a podcast is or how to get it or consume it. Uh now the big shift is how do you want to be different? Because back in the day it used to be, oh, just have an interview, just have a conversation, maybe a solo show. But now it's how are you gonna be different? How are you gonna stand up?

SPEAKER_02: 24:12

So true. And um I love that. Rap shit with P is more than just a name, it's what we do. We make visions come alive from branding and match to curated gifting and virtual assistant services. We help creatives, entrepreneurs, and businesses show up bigger, bolder, and better. So if you're ready to level up your vision, connect with us on IG at rapshitwithp or rapshitwithp at gmail.com and that's wr a p s I T W I T H P RapshitwithP at gmail.com or Rap She With P on Instagram. Rap Sheetwith P where access meets energy, where passion meets execution, and where every detail gets wrapped with love and excitement. So here's to season 10, the final season of talk showp. And my other question that I wanted to dig in on the stuff you say is you retiring in 10 years, so retirement for everybody looks different, right? Sure. So what's your retirement plan? Like just to to hang out or to travel or just be Yeah, um, my wife wants to travel a lot, so I want to to travel with my wife.

SPEAKER_01: 25:45

Exactly. I'm not much of a traveler, but I I've told her that yes, I I will travel with you. And now I've been traveling a little bit more and more just to be able to travel with her. But she's also kind of come down on the definition, like, all right, lane travel means we, you know, we travel one week a month and and maybe like one month a year, but doesn't mean we need to be traveling constantly. Like, okay, I can uh I can get behind that. I like being home.

SPEAKER_02: 26:13

But I feel like w once that one month a year, I I would check in in ten years, but because I feel like once you really start traveling, you kinda get to enjoy, especially when you are retired, right? So you have no responsibilities. Right now, being home sounds right because there's so much going on, like being a father, being a husband, you gotta be present, you'll work, everything.

SPEAKER_01: 26:34

So home seems much fun than traveling, but I feel like when you have nothing, yeah, well, it might not be sure, but there's there's hobbies and activities and friends, and you don't really don't get a lot of that if you're constantly traveling. Like I play a lot of tennis, and if I was constantly traveling, uh I wouldn't really get to play tennis with all my friends.

SPEAKER_02: 26:54

You didn't get into the paddle. Is it what one pickleball?

SPEAKER_01: 26:57

No, no.

SPEAKER_02: 26:59

I tried it.

SPEAKER_01: 27:00

Okay. Mark this as explicit because she just used the P word. I injured my knee 13 months ago, and somebody mentioned that we're like, no, I'm I'm rehabbing. I I'm not uh I'm not playing that.

SPEAKER_02: 27:12

That is J. If you want it, shall I tell him this pickleball? That's why we're shop for Picoba. But I tried it for the first time in podcast movement. Only because I wanted to to take the hi-hat paddle, not because I wanted to play a side. Like I did one round and then I was like, okay, bye, I got my pad.

SPEAKER_01: 27:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 27:31

Now that uh we have all this amazing stuff in Podcast Atlanta. We we do have an event coming up, but before we get to the event coming up, you say you've been catching up on my episode, so this is why I bring the most famous question. Uh he haven't done quite a while. I really can't pinpoint exactly how long, like when exactly we really connected. I just know have known him. Maybe he knows, I don't know, because he was missing, so maybe he better go here, but uh what was your first impression of me? And I'm curious if you remember that. I I really want to know when that was. And now that you have really gotten to know me, and your impression of me now.

SPEAKER_01: 28:12

Well, when we first got introduced, it was a little bit of a rocky start. I don't know if you remember. We don't? Okay, that that's great. Because we we're the best of friends now, but there was uh uh somebody who was after you to coordinate events in Atlanta, and here I am running Podcast Atlanta. You were kind of coming onto the scene around COVID, and I was honestly, I was kind of withdrawing into myself and in the community because we every every month we would have like a hundred people show up, and then COVID hit. Uh, and that really, you know, knocked the the legs out of a podcast Atlanta. And and I remember trying to coordinate with you, your emails kept shifting. Remember, I kept emailing you, and you were telling somebody like I'm not, you know, Mark isn't getting back to me, Mark isn't getting back to me. And I had to pull up the email. I was like, Paula, I have emailed you here, here, here, here, here. And you're like, Oh, my my email has changed. And and since I've known you, you had four different emails.

SPEAKER_02: 29:05

I do. And my dad has said I've shifted from back in the days. I used to have phone numbers, especially when I was in UK, people hated it. I would change numbers every two because it was easier to change phone numbers than here. You can go online and get a new number here. You have to register it, whatever, pay for the sync. You can you get free sync cards. Like, I would change my number. My dad would be like, look for the house for one, two, three, four. Like, what? I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with me. I'm trying, I'm growing, I'm growing, okay? Structure with PS may get, but sometimes when I don't pay my good board driving, it it cancels, then I'm like, since I hate emails, let it stay like that for a while.

SPEAKER_01: 29:44

No, so that's uh that was my first impression when we were trying to to work together. Like, how do I how do I talk to you? How do we coordinate? And it was uh it it was a challenge. But but since then I I really come to lean on you uh because you are the outgoing person. And I and I'm not. And folks that that know me and and know me well and the the the various properties that I run, usually I'm like a wizard of oz. I'm like the man behind the curtain that's pulling the letters and things. Uh you may not see me on stage, but a lot of the stuff that happens, whether it is an actual stage, whether it is a physical event, or it's a particular show or a podcast, or even some of the uh the membership sites that we run in the podcasting community. I I'm generally like you know, the the the guy behind the scenes, you know, pulling the levers and and everything. But it's important for people like me to have somebody like you who loves being around all the different people and and you find comfort in that. For me, it it drains me very, very quickly. So that's how we had a rocky start. But you know, we've we worked well together, and I know your strengths. Hopefully you know my weaknesses, and because of that, I think we you work really well together.

SPEAKER_02: 30:56

We do. That's why I'm I I still show up and I still come around and I get excited when I see. And he's right when he says he he's behind the sink, and that's why it was very important for me to have him on my season 10, as uh people need to know how important you also are in my in my life and in my walk and in my podcasting journey. Uh thank you for being a friend. Thank you for just always being there. Like I can talk shit, I can cry, I can and you just let me be. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01: 31:30

Certainly. And I appreciate you and I I appreciate you letting me into your life and dealing with some of my social quirks and I love them.

SPEAKER_02: 31:39

And I mean I get to be there in front of them. But I I still always just pull people like whenever people like, oh you need to meet meet Max. I keep on just learning and say, Oh yeah, here we go. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:51

And I used to be great, you know, doing these events for nearly 10 years. I used to be great at the the coordination, then getting in front of everybody, and then getting people to meet one another, and then getting folks together for the pictures. And and now a lot of times I I forget those things.

SPEAKER_02: 32:05

I think it's COVID, right? I think a lot of things changed during COVID. Even right now, I was hanging out with one of my friends, Walter, who lives in Atlanta and only keep meeting each other in conferences. And last week he just invited me out to just meet his fiancee and just like eat and chill, like not in a conference or 'cause it was like you remember before COVID, we used to do a lot of this, like just going out and hanging out with your friends and being around people. But then COVID came and I think because we we had to get used to the batch of light and then we got comfortable because now nobody really wants to leave their house unless it's money involved or something to really, you know. Everything is like it's actually because we're so used to being in the comfort of our realm that it has taken that, so we need to take that power back again. And that's why even with you, I was like, why should I do a a bachelor one when we are both remarried?

SPEAKER_01: 32:54

And that's the way it was with Podcast Alana events uh shortly after COVID is like, hey, we can still do this virtually because we all record, most of us record virtually anyway. But yeah, attendance really fell off because that was the appeal of Podcast Alana, like, hey, we get to get out and and talk to one another.

SPEAKER_02: 33:08

Exactly. So uh before I let you go, well not really let you go those we're about to eat, but uh we are gonna pivot to this quick segment where um no overthinking, no corporate approved answers, just straight shoot. You ready? Okay. Alright. Big biggest skip what you've made in your life that nobody saw coming. No overthinking.

SPEAKER_01: 33:34

It's gonna be tough because anytime I yeah, I have to think about these answers. Probably the biggest pivot that some people cause I always have people close to me then see something coming. And a lot of times I I keep it quiet. In fact, same with Podcast Lana, you know, the pivots that are coming, not everybody knows about. Uh there's there's there's always a few few people that that know. So probably when I I left my my corporate job 13 years ago at uh at General Electric, you know, only a few people knew. My uh my wife knew, my co-founder of the company knew, uh, but a lot of the uh people at General Electric didn't know until, you know, they uh they I'm having a meeting with uh with my manager and they were like, Oh, you know, how's uh how's your weekend? How's your you I took a vacation for a week? I have and then they start talking about the the next uh the project. I'm like, all right, before we go too much further, you know, I'm leaving. So I think that probably shook a lot of people up.

SPEAKER_02: 34:25

You're right. What song defines your energy right now?

SPEAKER_01: 34:29

Right now? Why can't we be friends? Based off this uh this conversation that we're having, especially the the Rockies start, and now as we're close friends, why can't we be friends?

SPEAKER_02: 34:45

Gross hack that actually works, but most people overlook.

SPEAKER_01: 34:51

Uh look adjacent to either your industry or your actions, one or the other, not both. And I could go deeper on like the whole Hubert strategy of of how to pivot and where to pivot. But for example, like for podcasters, if podcasting is your thing and it's about a particular industry or a particular niche, then follow that particular industry or that particular niche where podcasting isn't, whether it's a a newspaper or a trade show. That's I I think that's a good growth act. And that's served me well throughout the years. And then the flip side of that is if you are entrenched in a particular, you know, with podcasting and then you want to expand industries and bring podcasting to it on what you do, that's another way. Don't do both, do one or the other.

unknown: 35:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 35:35

Uh, one podcast everybody should listen to besides their own.

SPEAKER_01: 35:40

Oh, and I've got a new show that's launching in less than 24 hours. I can't recommend that one. All right. I'll have to say uh the newsworthy, Erica Mandy. It's a it's a daily show, daily news podcast. It's about 10 minutes, maybe 13 with ads, but I think everyone should uh should listen to that show because it's less than the time it takes me to take a shower and then I get the the news of the day.

SPEAKER_02: 36:05

No offense. I have that. I check it out even though I don't like news, but we'll see. So make sure you check out the new podcast in town, Habitat, Heart, Hammer and Home produced by Mark Dill and Pat Fanner of Podcast Atlanta. You can find it at podcastalanta.com and all the information you need to know about Mark at podcastalanta.com. This new show just dropped Friday, October 3rd of 2025. And we recorded this episode on Thursday, October 2nd of 2025. So yeah, go check it out, go give it some love, go support Habitat Heart, Hammer and Home. Podcast produced by Mark Dill and Pat Ferner of Podcast Atlanta. So this is one word. Just one word. What feels like stretching. I like that. And stretching hurts.

SPEAKER_01: 37:20

It hurts. But it feels good afterwards, bro. Going through all it is and then afterwards you're like and you have to make a conscious decision to stretch, just like you have to make a conscious decision to to grow. And to stretch properly, to grow properly, you have to really put some thought behind it. And then what's the purpose behind it? What's the purpose behind stretching? What's the purpose behind growth? Hopefully you have a purpose.

SPEAKER_02: 37:45

I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 37:50

Exciting.

SPEAKER_02: 37:53

Very much so. Even though sometimes you're like unsure, but it's always exciting, just accepting a new project, right?

SPEAKER_01: 38:01

Sure. I mean just like a haunted house can be exciting. It can be scary. But it's exciting. So yeah, I think the core of that is uh excitement, whether it's positive or negative excitement. And rebrand feels like I've only really gone through a couple of rebrands.

SPEAKER_02: 38:22

How do that feel?

SPEAKER_01: 38:24

I mean I've launched new brands while keeping other ones there. Rebranding feels shy. I think any any time I've rebranded something, it uh I've had a shy feeling about it.

SPEAKER_02: 38:37

Me too. I remember the first time I changed my logo of a shyness of sharing it and seeing what people might say, like, will they like it? We're really not, like how I feel about their reactions.

SPEAKER_01: 38:49

Yeah, and that's kind of how it fell with the new podcast of Lana logo. I didn't really see it as a rebrand, although it was the first step in a new direction that we're going. It it was a little shy, like, hey everyone, what do you think of this logo?

SPEAKER_02: 39:03

And then waiting for that, the responses, right? Because we always say constructive criticism is important, but also you know when I hear people tell you how they don't like sheep and agenda, right? You you need to know it in order to do that. What do you not like about it?

SPEAKER_01: 39:17

I'm like, thank you for your opinion. What do you not like about it? And if it's if it's something I I care about to change, would change and we incorporate it, great. If not, I say thank you for your opinion and move on.

SPEAKER_02: 39:27

Exactly. Now, as we were we're ending this and we were just on the podcast Atlanta, we have something coming up. You want to share about that?

SPEAKER_01: 39:36

Yeah, uh once again, we are hosting the folks at Podfest as they do their national pod tour from city to city to city. They're coming back to Atlanta on October 16th. And uh I'm I'm excited for that. In fact, it was that very event that kind of kept Podcast Atlanta going through the early days of COVID. Uh, because I was burned out. I think a lot of other people were burned out, but Chris Cremissos, I thank him for that. He started the pod tour. He's like, Atlanta's the first city we have to come to. So I think the first year they did two cities. Atlanta was one. It was a huge event, and now they they keep coming back.

SPEAKER_02: 40:13

And then the second year they came twice. We were the only city they did two times.

SPEAKER_01: 40:17

Right, exactly. And and this year I I put out the call to uh to the email list. If you're not subscribed to the FODCAS Atlanta email newsletter, you definitely should be because not only do we announce events like this coming up, but you know, freebies and giveaways and discounts and things as they they come across my lap. So yeah, I want to keep Atlanta number one, keep it the largest staff on the pod tour.

SPEAKER_02: 40:39

And Zaprian. And we've been doing right by it. And and I love that. So that's gonna be October the 16th from 6 p.m. to 9 p.m. And I believe it's happening where we did our podcast again swag event.

SPEAKER_01: 40:51

Yes. Yes, uh near little five points.

SPEAKER_02: 40:53

In Swan Media, Incol Media.

SPEAKER_01: 40:56

Incol Media? That sounds like uh what's that?

SPEAKER_02: 40:59

I swear! Maybe I'm just saying you're right.

SPEAKER_01: 41:06

But you know, I'm sure Paula, you'll have a link to where people can sing details. It's near little five points. Yeah, uh it's a very convenient location. They have ample free parking, which is is hard to come by in in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_02: 41:21

And on the event page, there's a map, like, hey, here's here's the areas to use Martha, it's literally right there as soon as you stop off the matter station.

SPEAKER_01: 41:29

Exactly, also close to a Markstone.

SPEAKER_02: 41:31

It works out both ways. Uh well Matt, thank you so much for hanging out with me. One last quick question. If you could title this episode right now, like if you not not this episode, sorry, if you would title this episode based on our friendship right now, what would the title of this this friendship be?

SPEAKER_01: 41:52

Progress.

SPEAKER_02: 41:55

No, not one word. I uh a podcast title.

SPEAKER_01: 42:00

An episode title for this show. For this friendship. For this friendship.

SPEAKER_02: 42:05

If it was a an episode of this friendship, what would the pivots and progress and uh yeah that that's always tough.

SPEAKER_01: 42:13

I always have to listen to something in post and then I come up with a good name.

SPEAKER_02: 42:17

I mean you he you you know about our friendship. It should be easy to come up with an episode title of our friendships. People three branding strength move forward.

SPEAKER_01: 42:27

I normally don't put labels on on friendships. I just you know, I just enjoy the friendship.

SPEAKER_02: 42:31

Well, I enjoy our friendship too. Cheers and thank you for coming out to my side of the world.

SPEAKER_01: 42:37

It was a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_02: 42:38

Hey Atlanta, it's October, which means it's almost time for Becoming Love Fest. Becoming Love Fest is happening right here in the city, October 18 and 19. This is not just another event. This is your chance to slow down, pour back into yourself, and remind yourself what it feels like to be loved on. Because let's be real, we all need that, especially right now. And guess what? On October 19th, it's the Incredible Heart Awards where I am honored to be nominated for the Rising Star Award. Yes, your girl made it. So if you're in Atlanta, pull up, celebrate you and me, and join our weekend of love, connection, and community. Shout out to Tamara for giving me some free tickets to share with y'all. So go ahead to givebutter.com slash becoming lovefest and grab your pass using the code TOKSHAWIP. By the way, this is our free by the way, this is a free weekend pass. Yes, including the Hatterwards. So go to givebutter.com slash becoming lovefest. I better see you there, AT. Let's become love together and let's celebrate love together. Okay, listen up, y'all. I'm about to give y'all a great ass tip, okay? Y'all know I barely read my DMs and God don't get me started on tracking my links. But now I'm lucky organized. And you wanna know why? You wanna know what the secret is? Stamp it social. So Stamp It Social, it's like um if Instagram, Linktree, and your favorite social media intern had a baby, but with boundaries and vibes, lots of vibes. You get a full dashboard that tracks what people are actually clicking on. Now, wouldn't you like to know that? Like I do, and I enjoy it. I've been obsessed with it. Like, for once, I know which post major run to my link and which ones have flopped harder than my ex's mixtape. Sorry. Plus, here's a kicker. Get this right? There's a seven-day free trial because we don't do commitments without a test drive, y'all. And if you're feeling spicy, or should I say extra spicy, use code POLA20. Yes, that's P-A-U-L-A 20 for 20% of a plan every month for life. Yes, forever, ever, ever, ever, forever, ever, ever. So if you're a content creator, podcaster, or just tired of shouting into the void, go check out Stamped Social because your content deserves better than linking bio with zero context. Again, that's Paula20 P A U L A 20. Because I love you, but I love organized chaos even more. Don't say I didn't tell you, don't say I didn't share, don't say I didn't give you the good good. Don't come back to me complaining because it's right there. Go on now. Go get your seven-day free try. Thank me later. Thank you, Ship Talkers, for tuning in and spending your valuable time with us. We appreciate you. To connect with us more, make sure you subscribe to our newsletter and catch all the shit talking vibes before anybody else. You can subscribe to our newsletter through our website www.toxicwritp.com and on our merchandise website www.toxicwifty.show. And while you're there, feel free to shop away. Toxicrifty is available on all social media platforms with the hand of Toxicrifty. Follow us and engage with us. Better yet, if you're feeling generous, give us a review on Apple Podcasts and operate us on Spotify. You can also share a beer with me with my beer lovers. I mean, what better way to support the movement than sharing a beer with me by buying me a beer at buymeekoffee.com. Thank you for listening, sharing, engaging, and support in any way that you do. Remember, new episodes are out every Wednesday and for part two, if any, on Fridays. Let's talk and I'll listen to some shit. Happy TikTok.