Leadership BITES
Leadership BITES
James Gwinnett- A Story Of Redemption And The Lessons Learned
"A tackle gone wrong left me with a fractured vertebra in my neck and an emptiness as I was told I could no longer play the game I so loved. Feeling worthless and devoid of purpose, my attempts to fill the hole with drinking led to a three-year spiral into depression and alcoholism."
In this episode of Leadership Bites, Guy Bloom interviews James Gwinnett, who shares his journey from a semi-professional rugby player to sobriety and mental fitness. James discusses his book Ready Set Life and the importance of identity, purpose, and mindfulness in overcoming life's challenges. He emphasizes the significance of building a support network and the role of self-reflection in personal growth. The conversation also touches on the lessons learned from endurance sports and the importance of enjoying the journey rather than fixating on the destination.
Takeaways
- James Gwinnett's journey highlights the importance of mental fitness.
- Sobriety can be achieved through discipline and structure.
- Identity can be fluid and should not be solely tied to one aspect of life.
- Mindfulness practices can help build resilience.
- Overcoming challenges requires a supportive network.
- Self-reflection is crucial for personal growth.
- The journey is more important than the destination.
- Small steps can lead to significant changes.
- Sharing problems can lighten the burden.
- Finding joy in the process is essential for happiness.
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Guy Bloom (00:01)
So, James, it is fantastic to have you on this episode of Leadership Bites. Welcome.
James Gwinnett (00:11)
Thank very much. It is fantastic to be here. I appreciate the invite. appreciate the time and I'm looking forward to chewing the fat over the next...
Guy Bloom (00:22)
Well, I start all of these off with I don't do introductions per se, think, let the person speak for themselves. So I clearly know who you are, James, it would be great just to get that sense of who the heck is James. So I'm going to let you just introduce yourself and then we'll jump off from there.
James Gwinnett (00:43)
yeah and we were chatting just beforehand I will try not to go on a five-minute tirade about myself I think first and foremost husband father ⁓ that's the that's the important stuff let's face it ⁓ father to a 16 month old young lad called Freddie who's just obsessed with tractors a beautiful wife Krista but in terms of what I
known for, what I'd like to be known for. I've been sober for the last nine years and during that time have set myself or embarked on a series of reasonably arduous endurance challenges and the result of that is building what I call mental fitness and the final outcome is book. also author and what I'm trying to get across is how other people can
learn from my mistakes and what I've picked up along the way and build as I say what I call mental fitness to resilience to life's ups and downs which we constantly find ourselves challenged with.
Guy Bloom (01:59)
So it's always a simple sentence, but there's quite a lot there. So if we're talking about mental fitness, we're talking about a book, Ready Set Life, if I've got that correct, and that speaking. think to hear you talk about that, I think it'd be great just to get initially a sense of your journey, because I'm really a believer if I'm going to listen to somebody talk about what might be relevant right now, it helps to understand where they've come from.
So however far back you wanna go, but I think it is worth just getting a sense of that. In essence, this is my journey. Born up on the top of a Scottish mountain with no water, I had to fight wolves and then it doesn't matter what it is, but let's get a sense of your journey.
James Gwinnett (02:47)
not quite that, excuse me, yeah not quite the Scottish mountain but I think the best place to go back to is 2013. I was playing semi-professional rugby at the time and with that came a sense of identity.
purpose if you like in life. gave me something that I centred most of my life around. it was by no means top flight but of a decent enough level that I was eating all the right things, doing all the right training, lifting all the right weights, taking the supplements, eating the chicken, protein and all that such that at 3 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon I was the best possible rugby player that I could be and most of my life was centred.
around that that all came tumbling down I suppose on the 9th of February 2013 when I broke my neck in a tackle gone wrong and I was hospitalized cellar taped to a hospital bed for a week while they assessed whether or not to slice my throat open and insert a titanium cage in there fortunately I managed to avoid avoid becoming ⁓ part on Schwarzenegger in the
Terminator. But it took away my identity that I talked about in the moment. It took away who I was and I no longer felt like I belonged to the team. longer had that purpose. I longer wanted to hang out with my friends. And I think the, I'm 6 foot 5, I was 17 stone at the time.
identity might not be necessarily a healthy identity but the identity that came with that was one of a an alpha male and there's lots of talk about toxic masculinity these days and I think that's probably a completely separate conversation but I was always the big drinker and the know it was the life and soul of the party and loud and brash and and all this and all this stuff but that behavior was
Inadverted commas acceptable when you're with your mates, ⁓ with your rugby teammates after a match on a Saturday evening, having a few pints, there's no harm in it. It became for me that sort of habitual...
enjoyment after a game became secretive, it became solitary and I turned to alcohol as a means of filling the void I suppose that had been left by the loss of the game that I loved.
alcohol-fuelled depression or depression-fuelled alcoholism, I'm not sure which, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not sure which is which, you'd have to go deep to work, can, sort of chicken and egg situation. But over a three-year period I...
I spiralled into a fairly turbulent roller coaster of ups and downs and upsetting loved ones and breakups and distancing myself from family and friends. It all came to a head three years later when I ⁓ hit my what's called your rock bottom in these situations.
found myself, I woke up in a dingy hotel room with no idea how I'd got there and an empty bottle of Jack Daniels next to me. I was on the floor, incidentally, so presumably so drunk that I hadn't even made it into the bed to pass out. And this epiphany, light bulb moment hit me and I knew something had to change. So I sought various different...
Roots for Help, the AA program, hypnotherapy, counselling, all sorts of weird and wonderful things, literature, reading all about ⁓ addiction. ⁓ And found my way, found my way into sobriety through rediscovering my health and my fitness. And I signed up to a fitness challenge, it was the London Marathon. ⁓
set myself the challenge of running the London Marathon. ⁓ Actually, I don't know whether people believe in fate or not. Certainly my mum says, well, James, things happen for a reason. ⁓ Shortly after I got sober, I found myself one Sunday morning watching the London Marathon. And I was struggling with the...
the initial stages of sobriety and finding what the AA calls your higher power, which is something that you can pin your sobriety to, something that can be the foundation of your sobriety, something that's greater than yourself, family, friends, whatever it might be. It's individualistic to each person. But it hit me in that moment watching the London Marathon that rediscovering my health and my fitness was going to be the basis of my...
ongoing sobriety and it was signing up to the London Marathon the next day, signed up to the following year's event through a charity that I'd previously done some work with. Set myself the challenge of running the London Marathon, running the whole way in under four hours and ⁓ after a regimented ⁓
Training program which gave me back the discipline and routine and structure in my life that I'd lost I crossed the London Marathon finish line in three hours and 55 minutes so just by the skin of my teeth Matt managed it having run every step and I always say there are two types of people that run a marathon
There's the first person who says that was bloody awful never again and the second who says well that wasn't so bad maybe again and then after a week of
Guy Bloom (08:37)
Mm-hmm.
James Gwinnett (08:46)
the muscles stiffness eases, you then start looking at your next challenge and etc etc. My brain started doing funny things and I was very much in that second camp but my brain started saying well if you can run 26.2 miles surely you can run 30, 40, 50, you get the picture.
And I started signing up for a series of ultramarathons that just got longer and longer. 70 miles from Carlisle to Newcastle across the north of the country along Hadrian's Wall. Stunning route which took me about 14 hours I I progressed to 100 mile ultramarathons, went along the Thames from London to Oxford. 20 or so hours.
And then shortly after getting married, thanks to my very accommodating wife, I ran from London to Bristol, which was 145 miles. took me about 30 hours, 31 hours I think it was. So that's sort of me where I am, where I have got to. And that's over the course of, as I say, just over nine years now. I've been trying to push myself, trying to...
Constantly improve, I suppose, ⁓ is a theme. That doesn't necessarily have to be in terms of distance run. It's just improve as a, constantly improve as a human being. And I now channel my learnings and my sobriety. That higher power has transferred from being my health and my fitness, although I still stay very fit and very healthy, has been transferred to my wife and my son. I'm now...
sober for them. That's enough of a higher power for me, thank you very much. So my son will never see me drunk. And that just makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. it's, as I say, the learnings that have come with that, that I hope to give to other people if I can. I hope to, I say.
through my book and I also do motivational speaking in part some small part of wisdomness in terms of how anyone can employ mindfulness to build what I call mental fitness.
Guy Bloom (11:14)
thank you for sharing that I think these it's it's easy to
It's easy to ask that on a question and then to have somebody answer so fully. I think I really appreciate I make notes as I go and so because we don't talk beforehand to plan what we're going to talk about. sometimes, you know, I kind of I offer raw thinking rather than well thought through facts. you when you said the route to sobriety, you found that through fitness and through that kind of having a higher power and that focus. I was just thinking there that
really a person being well and whatever that might mean to the individual, know, what fit might look to one person might be different to another. It's really to me, just, no, wellness is identity. It is a sense of who I am and what I'm about. And your identity, what is your identity? It's your purpose. That's who I'm trying to be. And that's, there's a reason for that. And I don't, I just want to clarify that I heard that correctly as
You can't really be well within yourself, whatever that means in terms of your balance or your mental health or whatever it is, if you don't have a sense of identity about what your narrative is and who you are. And that's then your purpose, isn't it? I'm trying to...
every day or every month I'm trying to be more that or to maintain that because maybe you've found that balance and I'm just wondering if me hearing what you said and interpreting it in that way and I play that back to you is that what I heard correctly?
James Gwinnett (12:59)
Yeah, yes and no. I think the identity piece is interesting one and the sense of purpose. There's a lot of just out there in the world and literature and podcasts such as this and influencers and people having these conversations. There's a lot of pressure on people too in inverted commas. Find your purpose in life and
Guy Bloom (13:02)
or not is okay.
James Gwinnett (13:27)
Some people might have found it but without knowing it. And as I say, there is nothing wrong with just being a great dad. That's my purpose in life now. ⁓ I don't need to go and climb Everest or make a million pounds or set up a charity or what. I all of that sounds fun and lovely, but just being a wonderful husband and great human being, father to my child, friend to my friends, son to my parents, just that's the golden life. That's the important stuff. there's nothing
wrong with identifying is the word that's thrown around isn't it these days but identifying as just a good person. That said if you are desperate in life to become, I practice jiu-jitsu so I'm a blue belt in jiu-jitsu at some point in my life I'd love to get my black belt probably in 10-15 years time so I have a goal I suppose is a different, it's probably about differentiating between ⁓
goals and purpose. think that's quite an important distinction to make. In terms of how that sort of ties into mental fitness, the point that I perhaps wasn't clear about or that I didn't explain properly is that we each have our own sense of who we are, but my identity changed
in that split second when I ran head first into someone on a rugby field. I was a rugby player at that time, at four o'clock in the afternoon on a Saturday, let's say, and at four o' one, I was no longer a rugby player. The trouble was that I was so wedded to be, I was so intent and it was my entire life. was so, that was who I was and I knew nothing else. Whereas actually identity can be...
can be fluid, can move from one moment to another. As I say, in this moment I'm a guest on a podcast, that's who I am. The next moment when I pick up my son from nursery I will be a father again. So I don't think we should be necessarily too intent on determining exactly who we are at all moments. I think there's something to be said that...
rather than saying I must be a father or a son or a jujitsu practitioner or a podcast host there's something to be said for just saying I'm just gonna be I'm just gonna be full stop and enjoy and be happy and experience the moment and
go out in nature and get off our phones, head up and look around, just be part, just experience what's going on around us and be part of life. So there's a fine line between saying I am X, Y and Z ⁓ and finding who that is and your, as I say, your purpose and your goals and actually just exploring the...
the moment and that mindfulness is something that I talk about in my book and in my motivational speaking.
Guy Bloom (16:34)
Yeah.
I think there's something very, for some people, know, they're, I think if your validity, if your ego, if your justification for who you are is linked to one thing, then, and it might be a beautiful thing, but actually if it's quite a finite thing like your job.
I meet a lot of people who their identity or the way that they value themselves is through the seniority that they hold or the rank that they've got or the amount of money that they're making. And that's a very fragile...
point of reference. So there might be something about actually the broader the spectrum of things that make you what you are. You know, it is being somebody's friend, is being somebody's parent, it is being a husband or a wife or whatever it is. Actually, there are some things that I wouldn't necessarily want to use the word safer, but actually the wider the spectrum of things that actually inform who you are.
James Gwinnett (17:15)
Yeah.
Guy Bloom (17:43)
rather than just one very particular thing that is maybe quite fragile like the job that you've got or the hobby that you have. I meet it up the martial arts all my life and I'm always very interested in people who I meet who
have identified as a black belt and that's who they are. You know, they learn a martial art and I've noticed it where, you're only learning this so you can say you're a black belt, which is very different to actually learning it and you become one. Right? And I see that quite a lot. you've come on this court when I used to do certain courses. I you haven't come here to learn. You've come here to get a certificate. Okay. Right. And their ego and their identities
James Gwinnett (18:15)
Right.
Guy Bloom (18:31)
is like that and you it's like you get it on the map you're talking about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu I presume when you say Jiu-Jitsu right and you can tell the ones that yeah you can tell the ones I'm sure that kind of enjoy losing to get better versus the ones that maybe don't like losing and try and win
James Gwinnett (18:40)
I am, yes, yes.
Guy Bloom (18:51)
Because their identity is locked into, I'm at that level, to be beaten by you if you're a lower level, that wouldn't sit well with me, versus the ones that are happy, God, this bugger's just beaten me, how did he do it? And I think that you can tell the people that the position they're in, the role they've got, the title, that is defining them, versus the people that are on a path, and I like your idea of being, you know, present.
James Gwinnett (18:52)
Absolutely.
Guy Bloom (19:18)
They're in the moment, recognising, I'm in a boat, sailing a sea, and actually, you know, where I am right now doesn't define me. It's a point on the journey. And again, so maybe different vocabulary, but I can see that it's very dangerous to allow certain things to define what you are, if they're quite fragile things. Yeah.
James Gwinnett (19:44)
Yeah, there's
a few points to them.
first one is that boat, ⁓ that boat analogy and I love that and there's nothing wrong with just saying right I'm floating in a boat that's all I need right now in this moment that's that's all I need because if that's enjoyable and you're happy and you're deriving contentment from that then all good right. Coming back to the the jiu-jitsu the BJJ stuff I
Picking up on what you've just said, I had a conversation with my coach this morning about it. I did a morning training session. He's black belt and he's phenomenal and he bends me in half every time I roll with him. I use the analogy in the book because there's a chapter about Jiu Jitsu in which I interview him. Do remember the scene in Terminator 2 where the liquid metal robot merges through the prison bars? He's like that. Rolling with my coach is like that.
I don't know how he does what he does. It's amazing, but he's been doing it 15, 16 years, so it's understandable. But he said to me, because we were having a conversation about hobbies and contentment and all this stuff, he said Jiu Jitsu is my life. I love it, but I need to find a hobby.
and maybe he's 37, 38 something like that and he said maybe I take up photography or something like that like a midlife crisis hobby or woodwork or something like that. So it's interesting that he does something that he hasn't been able to do make a career out of doing something that he absolutely loves but still he doesn't want to define himself as a purely a jiu-jitsu practitioner or a jiu-jitsu coach he's looking to become a photographer or a
wood worksman or carpenter or whatever. Wood worksman is a name, word I've just made up. And then interestingly also, well, wood worksman is works. Interestingly also, the sort of the why of why do you do a hobby or why do you pursue your purpose or your goal is interesting. Because another chapter in the, I'll keep referring back to the book, in what's Ready Set Life, you were correct when you mentioned earlier.
Guy Bloom (21:37)
Whatever a woodworks man is.
James Gwinnett (22:01)
In another chapter I speak to a guy called Ollie Phillips who's ⁓ a former England rugby sevens captain. Phenomenal guy, one of these annoying people that's achieved more before the age of 40 than most do in several lifetimes. Has sailed around the world, been to the North Pole, was world sevens player of the year in 2009 I think he was. But I played rugby with him at university and we've stayed in touch.
him. Sorry, the premise of the book is it's sort of my journey but along the way I speak to various interesting people that I've encountered in my life.
My jiu-jitsu coach and Ollie and there's a former SAS soldier and a recovering heroin addict. World record holding polar explorer. Anyway, Ollie is interviewed and when I got in touch with him and said, look, I'm writing this book. I'd really appreciate your thoughts on how you became so good at what you did. He's retired. What you do, what you did. How do you achieve peak performance? If I want my son to play rugby for England, what does he have to go?
What does he have to go and do? And the conversation was absolute. It was a beautiful conversation because Ollie opened up to me and said, look, my entire career was based on seeking validation from my father. I didn't do it for me. I did it because I thought it would win his approval. His father was a very sort of standoffish, probably cold is probably too strong a word, but not very effusive with his praise. And when
Ollie got his first cap for England. His dad's response was, well, that's all well and good, but when are you going to go out and get a real job? And lots of therapy, actually, later, he admitted, he realized that his entire career was based on trying to get, firstly, from his father, and then when he didn't get that, it was based on getting praise from the adoring fans who were screaming his name and twicking them around.
So the why you're seeking whatever you're seeking is important and it has to be for you. If you're trying to seek it for someone else, that's not a purpose. That's not a goal. That's not going to make you happy and you're constantly going to be looking for more. So again, that difference between purpose and goals, but also differentiating why you're doing it and who you're doing it for is crucial. Because if you're not doing it for yourself and you
you are not going to derive happiness from it and it's never going to be enough.
Guy Bloom (24:40)
I think that's quite interesting. I have quite a lot of tattoos and somebody once said at the start of my tattooing journey, said, just one thing, Guy, just make sure that you're getting them for you and not for other people. Because if you're getting them for other people, you're going to regret it one day. You might be happy with it now because you like people going, ooh, look at your tattoos. But there'll come a point where you'll wish you hadn't got them. So be damn sure they're for you.
James Gwinnett (25:00)
Yeah.
Guy Bloom (25:08)
And I think a career can be like that or the focus of your life can be like, I work with execs who sometimes, if not, not unfrequently, I get that. I spent quite a lot of time getting here, Guy. And now that I'm here, I'm not necessarily sure this is the place I want to be. Because of course they were doing it for a whole host of reasons that weren't for themselves. So I think there is something about...
James Gwinnett (25:10)
Thank
Guy Bloom (25:32)
the external purpose, it might feel very motivational, it might drive you into certain places, it might take you to the top of a tree. But don't confuse that with contentment and don't confuse that with the fact that actually it's not so much, you know, I think a lot of people, they think, and it's always a caveat to me when they're waiting to get happy.
And I think when you're waiting to get happy, that means you're not enjoying the journey. And if you're not enjoying the journey, it's probably not your journey. It's probably somebody else's. But you fixated on the destination, but it could take you 20 years to get there. So, you know, that's 20 years of your life gone trying to get to a destination.
James Gwinnett (26:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and as a
Well, it's that old saying that it's about
the journey rather than the destination, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's about the present rather than the future.
Guy Bloom (26:23)
Yeah, you can lead a life that's not your own.
Yeah, I totally hear that.
James Gwinnett (26:28)
Yeah,
if you're constantly aiming to be happy in the future, that just says to me that you're not happy now. And that's a very simple way of looking at it. I love that phrase that it's about the journey, not the destination. It's how you get there. that's constantly... The trouble is we are...
constantly bound by society's expectations and laws or rules or whatever you want to call them. You graduate, you go and get a job and then you've got to get a better job and then you've got to buy a car and then you've got to buy a faster car and then you've got to buy a house and then a bigger house and then I've got kids now and I've got to put them through nursery and that's the same as, it costs the same as...
mortgage like each month it's just ludicrous how much nursery fees are believe me. me, not so many of them I'll try. But yeah so that again it's all very well if you want to drive a Land Rover brilliant. Is it because you want to drive a Land Rover or is because you think everyone else is going to think that you look cool in your Land Rover? Is it going to bring you happiness?
Guy Bloom (27:31)
Believe it.
James Gwinnett (27:51)
The answer is probably no because material possessions rarely do. And even if they do, you know, all right, so you buy a Discovery Sport and that's fantastic and it's got 300 horsepower and it does this, that and the other in, you know, 100 miles in six seconds or whatever it is. But then, actually the Range Rover equivalent has got 400 horsepower. So where does it stop? I drive a Land Rover by the way, a Discovery Sport. I'm very happy with it.
This is the point I'm trying to make. I don't know if this is relevant to the common man or not, but listen, if you are seeking happiness, then by definition you are not happy. And that comes back to my point a moment ago about just recognizing, just being, recognizing the moment you mentioned the yacht. Okay, I'm on a yacht and it's wonderful and I'm happy right now. ⁓
Guy Bloom (28:21)
Yes, so this metaphor may not be in there.
James Gwinnett (28:50)
Very few people, think, or too few people, experience that because it's always about the next thing. What's next? What's next? What's next? Okay, I've ticked off that thing. Well, ⁓ I've got the next objective or the next goal or the next milestone or the next deadline. Well, let's just sit back for a minute. Again, the journey. Imagine you're climbing a mountain. You get halfway there. Rather than sort of looking upwards and staring at the summit and thinking, well, I've still got halfway to go.
Turn around, look back and think, God, look how far I've come. I'm already halfway there. And there's an amazing lesson to be learned here in terms of how we can reframe and just use, reframe things and use simple language. And it's something that I very much employed when I gave up drinking. I told myself, and this was after a bit of research and speaking to people, I told myself, rather than I have to give up drinking,
I told myself, get to give up drinking. And just the simplest little choice of vocabulary turns the entire thing from a very negative thing, I'm losing something, to a very positive, well, I'm gaining something. I'm gaining back my Saturday mornings. I'm gaining back my, I sort of talked about my health and my fitness. There's just, so many examples of how we can do that in our day-to-day lives. Just by changing vocabulary and taking a positive approach to things.
rather than, we are inherently negative and that's two and a half million years of evolution that you can go into for that story. Simple things like that is part of what I talk about when I talk about it. Talk about this stuff.
Guy Bloom (30:24)
Yeah.
like that because I talk about accountability and ownership and there is something here about I get to is also then it's about control, it's a choice. I respond very very badly to command. If you order me to do something, even if it's good for me, I can push back against that.
for whatever deep psychological reasons that might be. But I think quite a few people who are actually quite strong personalities who end up in a position of weakness, i.e. through an addiction or a bad decision or whatever it is, actually being faced with demand actually creates a reaction. So even when I know, for example, I've got to do something for my own...
I looked at myself in the mirror a few months ago and I was a stone overweight I was getting that little 55 year old pot belly and little fat face and I went hmm all right now I've got to lose weight doesn't make me lose weight me saying right come on lose weight it doesn't make me lose weight why because I actually react to myself trying to tell me what to do it's weird
James Gwinnett (31:40)
Hmm.
Guy Bloom (31:48)
But if I frame it through that lens of it's a choice, this is about you making decisions for you. Now we've all got different ways. Maybe actually some people, they actually need to hear their inner voice go, no, do it, you bugger. So actually it's not that that is always the way. But I think you're right. You have to find the language, the frame, the vocabulary. And if the vocabulary that you're hearing isn't working for you,
James Gwinnett (31:50)
Yeah, yeah.
Guy Bloom (32:15)
then actually that ability to find new vocabulary may not be mine and it may not be vocabulary that works for me, but if it works for you, because actually whatever you're doing, if it's not working, what's insanity, continuing to do the same thing and expecting the same, a different reaction. So I think you're right. I think it is finding something that shifts the narrative for your internal dialogue.
James Gwinnett (32:33)
Yeah. ⁓
Guy Bloom (32:43)
that allows you to be engaged by it. And probably doesn't require any justification from somebody else as to why you talk like that to yourself, but it makes me do it. And maybe that's the empowering thing I've found. Just like your fashion, I found the clothes that I feel comfortable in. I found the inner voice that I feel comfortable with. ⁓ I feel good when I wear these clothes and I react well to myself when I talk to myself like this.
And maybe that's some of that.
James Gwinnett (33:14)
Yeah,
there's a couple of, I can sort of pick things out of that. Firstly, it shows good self-awareness on your part, knowing that you respond negatively to command, even if it's your own command.
Just shows that you're aware of what's going on in your head, is part and parcel of mental fitness. Recognising the emotions that we're experiencing and what we can do about them. what I talk about. So that simple I've got to, that denotes a challenge, doesn't it? It's going to be a struggle. It denotes it's going to be hard and that you're going to have to get off the sofa and you're going to to your shoes up and you're to have to go for a run or whatever it might be. But change the O to an E.
and you get to and it's all suddenly positive and it's all suddenly easy and it's a joy and actually I'm going to get something out of it. And the second element is that I suppose it comes down to change doesn't it and we all fear change and we're all scared and again I've mentioned evolution two and a half million years of it.
We're scared of change because it could be dangerous and it's an inherent survival instinct that the human species wants to avoid any sense of danger because basically all we have been, when it comes down to the of evolutionary roots of it, all we've been put on this earth to do is to survive, procreate, move on, Keep the species going. So any sense of change, well I've got to move out of the cave, well that means that I could be, you know,
come across a saber-toothed tiger on the way or I could get eaten or I could this or I could get trodden on by a woolly mammoth or whatever it might be. That's still in us. That's still in us two and a half million years later. So the change comes down to...
identifying the various different steps that you're going to go through and it's similar to the change curve if anyone's ever seen that the sort of steps that I I would advise and that you've got to identify the the position that you're in and why you want to move out of that so guy in your case you've said you wanted to you wanted to lose a stone well why do you want to lose a stone is it because you're going to feel better about yourself or is it because other people want you think other people will look at you and again it comes down to the
the who you're doing it for. But if you are identifying correctly that you are doing it for yourself, again there's an element of why. Well, you've said you're going to look better in your clothes, you're going to not feel out of breath when you climb the stairs, you're going to be more attractive to the opposite species, you might be able to attract a partner, all these various different potential reasons why you might lose a stone.
But that's not enough. That's the inspiration, if you like. Doing that alone is not enough. You've then got to identify where you're getting to. The second stage of the change process is, I'm here at the moment, but I need to get to there. And so that's the motivation element of it. You've got the inspiration and the motivation. And without the two, ⁓
one doesn't work without the other. Because if you can't visualise yourself a stone lighter, healthier...
Unable to I'm sorry more able to climb the climb the stairs. You're not going to get there You're gonna one day you're gonna think well, I'm gonna lace my trainers up and then you're gonna think well actually do you what? can't be bothered today and you're gonna you're gonna lose the Routine or the the structure that you've put in place. So you've got to start having conversations with other people who are healthy you've got to Join running clubs. You've got to imagine yourself in that position You've got to try going out for a 1k, you know, say you're going couch to five
for example, you've got to go for a 1k run to get an idea of what it feels like and okay you get hot and sweaty and you're out of breath but then then you get the endorphins afterwards and you think okay that feels good I'm actually I can see why I'm doing this I can see where I'm going towards and so that two-step process as I say that they don't work independently of each other one the one doesn't work without the other and change is actually it's actually
having said all that, it's actually a three step process because along that timeline of between step one and two, the inspiration and the motivation, you've got all the hurdles and the barriers and the resistance that are going to come at you along the way. So, okay, so what's the resistance to going from a couch to 5K? Well, I don't own a pair of running shoes, the weather's bad, I've got too much work on, I've got to pick the kids up, you know, all of these.
things they're going to get in the way and any excuse comes back to the the survival bit any excuse to not go for a run you're going to go well I haven't got time today well never mind I'll have to go tomorrow but guess what happens tomorrow
as chief vital statistics says in asterix the comic book tomorrow never comes he's worried that the sky is going to fall on his head tomorrow but tomorrow never comes if anyone's read the asterix books there's a bizarre tangent of a reference for you anyway back to the barriers you've got to identify the do it
Guy Bloom (38:36)
If you haven't read Asterix on Obelix...
If you haven't read asterisks and obliques then you can't be friends of ours. It's that simple.
James Gwinnett (38:46)
No, no, no friend of mine has not read the absolutely, I've read the Asterix books. So yeah, again, just summarising, you've got the inspiration where you're coming from, you've got the motivation where you're going to, and along the way you've got a whole load of hurdles and you need to be damn sure that you know what those hurdles are going to be because when they come across, when they come along, you need to be able to get over them.
You need to say, okay, look, kids are playing up, but I'm sorry, or whoever it might be, you need to give me 20 minutes because I need to go and do my exercise because this is important to me. And it's that three-step process that allows us to change, in short.
Guy Bloom (39:29)
So when you wrote your book, ⁓ I know I wrote a book and it was quite... ⁓
An element of catharsis, an element of it allowed me to get the spaghetti in my head into a coherent order that it didn't just make sense to me, it made sense to others. So when you went through that process, what was your kind of...
Yeah, if I want people to read this book because so if I'm listening to you talking now and I think right, I've really I like hearing James talk ready set life. I can follow the link that I'm going to put with the podcast or I can go on Amazon and quickly find it. Who do you want to read it? Well, what's that? Yeah, you'd be you know, somebody's into this. If you read this, this is why I think somebody would want to read and would get great value from reading.
James Gwinnett (40:30)
So the reason that I want people to read it, or the reason that I think people should read it, is that I genuinely believe it can help people. And I say that with my hand on my heart in terms of the things that I have learned along the way have helped me. And I talked about mental fitness and wellness all being individualistic, so yes, I appreciate that it's me. But...
As I mentioned a moment ago, the important part about the book is that it's not just me narcissistically rambling about my own life and learnings. It's getting thoughts and contributions from a whole myriad of really incredible, wonderful people who have seen and done some just remarkable things and getting their take on how they have...
faced off against challenges, overcome hurdles and built what I call mental fitness. mean the book, interestingly it didn't...
It's going to sound bizarre, but it didn't start life as a book. It started out as a, as you said, bizarre mumble jumble of spaghetti in my head and a few thoughts and a few what ifs and maybe buts and this, that and the other. ⁓ And I suppose the premise, the idea started properly forming when my wife and I found out that she was pregnant. ⁓
And the resulting emotions from that were several fold for anyone that's got kids will know. Firstly, ⁓ abject terror at the prospect of bringing life into the world and keeping it alive. But not just from the perspective of ⁓ keeping a tiny human alive, more also from the point of view of bringing that life into the world as it is today.
And let's face it, not in a good place, is it? ⁓ There's wars, there's climate, the climate crisis, there's identity crises, there's all sorts of things going on that Freddie will have to somehow navigate his way through.
all sorts of that we will hope, hopefully or somehow, we'll have to make it up as we go along, help him navigate through and we'll have to work out how we do that, I say, sort of fly by the seat of our, there's no parenting handbook as to navigate everything that's going on in the world. So it was more a case of, well, how does what I've learned, how is it relevant?
How will it be relevant to him, to my son? But the result of that is how is it relevant to everyone, to all people who are, whether you're going through a difficult patch in your life or whether you're struggling to find your purpose as we've just talked about or make ends meet or find a job or...
buy a Land Rover, whatever it might be. The book is aimed at anyone who feels like they might be able to get more from life. If you're perfectly happy and content in life, fantastic, then there's elements in there for you as well. it's, I mean, I suppose it's a self-help book is the long and the short way of describing it. But as I say, it's come from a place of...
Well, I'm not sure how I'm going to help my son navigate through life, but this is what I've learned along the way and hopefully that will be of help.
Guy Bloom (44:09)
It's interesting actually, I think I had a very similar motive when I wrote my book. wanted Milo and Hugo to read it and go, okay, this is how dad's brain worked. Yeah, so I wanted a bit of legacy in there maybe. But I also wanted it, yeah, to be, so I talk about trust, accountability, bravery and connection.
It almost doesn't matter what's in the book, you know, it's an indicator of where your head's at and what you found useful. And that's a powerful sort of value. Did you have any thing that, you were writing it or speaking to others, that... Because I had a few... I don't know if I want to use the word epiphanies.
But I think I had a few moments where I went, hmm, I know I think this, but I don't know if I'm actually doing it. And then it kind of made me refocus even more. And I wonder if in...
Actually the the create the writing the creation of it did you rechallenge did it re-reinforce because I know it did with me Because I took my company's called living brave And the books called living brave leadership and then there were some moments where I thought I don't think I'm living brave on that And it's hilarious when you start of apply your own methodology to yourself and you find yourself wanting which is probably that review
and that self-reflection is required but I just wonder were there any moments where actually you went I'm writing this down but I might need to put a bit more effort into something when you know I wonder if it identified anything for yourself in the process
James Gwinnett (45:47)
Thank
Yeah, sure. I mean, absolutely. Although more, more, probably more accurate to say that I was, I was doing the stuff, but I probably wasn't necessarily aware that I was doing it or I wasn't being deliberate enough at doing it. So yes, definitely it reinforced some of the, the mechanisms and the learnings that I've employed over the years, but it actually helped me to write them down.
in order to properly recognise them. So that change process was definitely one of those situations. I've made changes, for example giving up drinking and at the time I thought, well I have to stop drinking but how do I then continue not drinking? so there was that, I mean it's obviously a continual journey this but I do feel like I have achieved
sobriety, albeit I will continue to achieve sobriety. So I sort of see myself as a recovered alcoholic rather than a recovering alcoholic, if that makes any sense at all. But anyway, that change process was one of the ones that I had to, that gave me, I took quite a lot out of writing the book myself in terms of how I approach things. And yes, there were plenty of other
Guy Bloom (47:00)
Yeah, totally.
James Gwinnett (47:18)
plenty of other processes. One is the daily mindfulness that I now practice. this sounds all, people hear the word mindfulness, they associate it with meditation ⁓ and start sweating that they have to sit cross-legged and hum to an eight-legged elephant and light candles and you don't. ⁓ The premise of mental fitness ⁓ is
building resilience to life's and downs. It's being able to recognise all the good stuff in life and fully appreciate it and recognise the bad stuff and cope with it. That's what mental fitness gives you the tools to do.
the way that I advise, the way I believe that we can all build mental fitness. It's exactly like building physical fitness, you just do a little bit every day. Now physical fitness is actually harder to build because you need to go out for a half hour run every day, you need to lift weights, you need to get sweaty, all of this sort of stuff. And a lot of people don't get on board with that and that's fine, each to their own. I...
personally advocate for every single person on this planet should move on a regular basis in some way shape or form. But if you don't want to run an ultramarathon, that's absolutely fine. Okay? I'm not going to insist that everyone goes out and run an ultramarathon. I am going to insist, however, that you believe that you could. There's an important distinction. And that's part of the thinking process that I...
help people with and instead of that physical sweaty half an hour a day kind of stuff mindfulness can be done in three minutes each day you can do it while the kettle's boiling instead of looking at Instagram or the blight on society that is TikTok you can just think to yourself how why and what how do I feel why do I feel it and what can I do about it
And by doing that very simple exercise on a daily basis, you start recognising the emotions that you feel, what causes those emotions and how you can cope with those emotions or if necessary override them. Now could be lasting at night, it could be...
first thing in the morning, could say, could be while the kettle's boiling, but that gradual building of self-awareness is the recipe, if you like, for my recipe for mental illness.
Guy Bloom (49:54)
I that's very positive. think there's something there about a habit, self-reflection, the willingness to be vulnerable, not making you vulnerable. know, some people, you know, the habit of self-reflection isn't there for them. So actually just building habit. It's not about, as you say, two hours of meditation, but three minutes of reflection.
You that's a thing. Having a little tool, a template. You know, yeah, you could do a deep dive maybe and journal and do all sorts of things, but actually if you just asked yourself those three quick questions, then actually, you know, there might be a more advanced version of it, but you're doing it. It's like fitness, it? You know, if you just get your arse in, go for a walk around the block.
You know, hey, it's better than anybody that's not. And the reality is you're creating the habit of exercise. Somebody talked about this thing called the habit of one, which I quite liked, which is this idea of, you know, if you're trying to do a thousand press ups, then actually that can be a bit overwhelming. But if every single morning you get up and do one, you go, what's the point in doing one? Well, if you do one press up up until the point where you cannot not do one, then you've created the habit of doing a press up.
James Gwinnett (50:41)
Yeah, quite right.
Guy Bloom (51:05)
Now you can do too. Right? And I like that. Small steps can create the habit because for some people they can't make the big... Yeah. Yeah. I like that idea and I just think... ⁓
James Gwinnett (51:06)
Mm-hmm.
Small steps is also important.
Breaking down an objective like thousand press-ups into, well it's actually not a thousand press-ups, it's one press-up a thousand times and it's something that I employed on my ultra marathons and it's something that I learned from the special forces actually. didn't mention earlier but I was lucky enough to take part in SAS Who Des Wins that.
Guy Bloom (51:29)
nice.
James Gwinnett (51:42)
slightly silly show on channel four where a load of civilians get beasted by former special forces operatives. I think you've interviewed Olly Ollerton before haven't you? So he was one of the one of the directing staff and the the premise of that was just keep putting one foot in front of the other no matter what.
Guy Bloom (51:52)
Yes.
James Gwinnett (52:03)
And if you do that, you will get to the finish line, whatever that finish line is, whether it's a deadline or whether it's the end of an ultra marathon. So I can vividly remember the first 100 mile ultra marathon that I did. It was after I'd been on SAS Who Des Winds, because I'd run the 70 mile, the one I mentioned from across the north of the country, and I'd got to the end of that.
And I'd been thinking for a while that maybe 100 miles would be something to achieve sometime in the future. But having run 70 miles and collapsed over the run over along the quayside and along the River Weir over the Millennium Bridge and then sort of flopped over the finish line, I was absolutely broken after 70 miles. And the thought of running another marathon and then some more on top of that.
just blew my mind. was like, no, that's impossible. No one could do that, right? And this negativity set in, how am I ever going to do that? I then got to do SAS and...
it was drilled into us, this military special forces mindset that actually if you think you're done, you're only 40 % done, I think is the rule, the sort 60-40 rule they've got. But it's just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And with a little bit of tweaking of a fueling strategy and pacing and this, that and the other and looking after my body and managing blisters and things like that, another 30 miles was actually...
perfectly manageable in inverted commas. But I can remember setting off from, the first one I did was from London to Oxford along the Thames. And I can remember setting off from Richmond, got the Thames on the right hand side of me, and I've got my sports watch on and I clicked the thing, right, let's go, off we go. And about six minutes later, my watch buzzed.
and it was set to kilometres, sorry that's my Labrador, it was set to kilometres because kilometres go faster so you feel like you're making more progress. That's my rationale for it. But about six minutes later my watch buzzed and it said you've done one kilometre and I thought again it's a reframing thing. If I had thought to myself, ⁓ Jesus I've only done one kilometre, I'd have spent the next 20 hours going ⁓ God this is bloody
awful but I it popped into my head actually I chuckled to myself and my thought was oh great I've already done one kilometer only 160 to go right
Guy Bloom (54:43)
you
James Gwinnett (54:43)
And it was such a simple process and I spent the rest of that 20 hours just laughing to myself because of the ridiculousness of the situation. But it made it alright, yeah, was arduous and tough and da da da da, but it was a really enjoyable experience chatting to other runners and learning where they'd come from. And then at one point in the middle of the night, I thought I was hallucinating. could see two, I had my head torch on running through the fields out of Abingdon way on the approach into Oxford. And I could see these two lights sort of
hovering in the distance. I wasn't sure what I was seeing and I wasn't running and am I hallucinating? Have I not eaten enough? Have I not taken on enough salts? And then I thought, ⁓ shit, is it? Yes, bang. I ran into a cow in the middle of a field. The lights were in the reflection of his, of its eyes in the, in the reflection of my head, my head torch. And I just, again, it was just the most stupid, utterly ridiculous situation, running into a cow. And this cow was obviously transfixed by this light.
coming towards it and didn't move off the path. And if you can learn stuff like this...
A laugh at the ridiculous is another, it's actually another theme in the book with a guy called, an interview I do with a guy called Henry Cookson who was a world record holding polar explorer and he's been to the North Pole, he's been to the South Pole and he talks about just the laughs that he had on his expeditions even though they were unbelievably, but you can imagine how brutal it is, kite skiing to the southern pole of inaccessibility and it takes sort of 50 days or something like that and you've got
blisters everywhere and chafing and all the... I just can't imagine how hideous that must be. But if you laugh at it, it becomes an amazing, enjoyable experience. Same with any challenge in life, I suppose. And it's an interesting pick-up. Again, we talked about reframing earlier. I have already run a kilometre, only 160 to go. Yay, great, okay. Off we go. So it's just amazing how the mind...
Guy Bloom (56:48)
I love that. And
I think this is all part of this, that actually there is something here that one of the key things I notice in people who are high performers, that high performers who are healthy, because I think you can be a high performer in the context of achieving a great lot, a great deal, and it may not be being healthy.
But actually somebody once said to me, these are what I call dinner party moments guy. And I was like, what does that mean? says, well, think of the worst thing that's ever happened to you. Let's just say hypothetically, you had a car accident and broke both your legs. At the time it was pretty rubbish. And then I don't know when it will be, six months later, six years later, you'll end up going, do you remember that time I crashed and broke both my blinking legs? There comes a point where it becomes a frame of reference that you laugh about.
James Gwinnett (57:33)
Yeah, nice, wasn't it?
Guy Bloom (57:39)
And I thought, hmm, and that was just this reframing. And actually, he said, so when times are tough, he says, I just think to myself, OK, dinner party moment, because at some point, I am going to laugh about this. And he says, and what I recognize is, if I'm really mindful, if I'm really present, I can enjoy the experience of recognizing that this is a dinner party moment that I'm presently aware of.
James Gwinnett (57:51)
Yeah.
Guy Bloom (58:06)
experiencing it like I'm alert to the fact that it's happening. He says and that's when I can become an observer on it and I can see the humour in it. And I thought, and which is really to what you're saying, it's that kind of that capacity to reframe, to give it, it is what it is but my frame of reference on it is one.
James Gwinnett (58:06)
That's nice.
Yeah.
Guy Bloom (58:26)
that actually fuels may be it through amusement or just recognising I can see what this is in terms of part of my life's journey, it's part of my narrative. It doesn't matter what your own internal narrative is but by being able to step out of it and see it as something else that's valuable then actually you know that's a power I think. So I really recognise that. So listen I'm super alert, yeah I'm super alert to time James and we're coming up.
James Gwinnett (58:55)
about self-awareness and being able to recognise that a moment in your darkest, deepest, deepest, darkest, most troubling moments and being able to recognise that actually in six months or six years, as you say, time, you are going to have a little bit of a chuckle about it. That's lovely. I suppose it comes down to awareness, but there's also an advice piece that I'd give people on this and I reference this in the book in terms of recognising who your
Guy Bloom (59:12)
Yeah.
James Gwinnett (59:25)
support network is. Because if you know that you've got someone that you can tell that story to in the future, then that's going to make the process even easier. And I talk about building a support network for difficult situations. having a, it's the example that comes to mind, having a 16 month old, it comes with its challenges, right? He's done, a mess of his, we're going into detail, he's made a mess of his nappy, oh God, all the rest of it, or he's having a hissy fit tantrum about not being able to track
Guy Bloom (59:35)
Yes.
James Gwinnett (59:55)
Ted or all these stupid examples in terms of these aren't obviously major problems but I've got a WhatsApp group of dads in the local village and we sort of joke, Freddie's done this and isn't that hilarious and we go to the pub and four of us, five of go for a couple of pints, I'm on my Guinness zeros and we laugh about how silly it is what our little ones have done and it's cathartic and it makes things easier and you have a laugh about it.
I also talk about sharing problems in the book. It's that old adage, and think it was guy, originally a guy from General Motors who said, problem shared is a problem halved. Something along those lines was the phrase. was really originally an employee of General Motors, found. But it's telling people, if you've got an issue, if you've got a problem, tell someone.
Mine was my drinking. I decided that I was going to stop drinking and I recognised the fact that I was obviously going to have to tell everyone I knew about this because they were all big rugby drinking mates and the next time I saw them they going to say, James do want a pint? Let's play drinking games or do shots or whatever it is. But I told every single person I knew.
that I then avoided that situation further down the line. And it's a silly, silly example, but I tell, the example I use in the book is if you've got a leaky tap, tell a plumber, like tell someone, whatever that problem might be, tell someone, share it, make it half the, problem shared is a problem halved.
But it's again, recognising who you can tell that problem to and recognising that support network and building people around you that you are able or you feel comfortable sharing that with. And anyone that you don't feel comfortable sharing that with, perhaps assess whether or not they fall into that friend bracket. I'm not saying you necessarily have to discard people from your life if you don't feel comfortable with telling them. ⁓
issues or problems that you're having but perhaps question well why are they in my life if I don't feel like I can confide in them. It might sound a bit brutal but we've got to be selective with who we spend our time with because our time is important to us.
Guy Bloom (1:02:26)
So, thank you James. I kind of top out at about an hour because I recognise that I can keep going with somebody like you. could just grab a pizza and I'll be here for another four hours. So I'm just super alert to people's kind of capacity to listen to a podcast. And as I'm not the Joe Rogan podcast, they're not going to sit here for three hours and listen as much as I think they blinking well should. But anyway.
James Gwinnett (1:02:37)
It's a wonderful conversation. We could go for another round.
and I'm not Donald Trump, so...
Guy Bloom (1:02:56)
So listen, ⁓ if people want to, I mean there'll be the link in the information that goes with the podcast, but if people want to look you up, where do they go James?
James Gwinnett (1:03:10)
So I am, it's all James Gwinnett, G-W-I-N-N-E-T, Instagram, LinkedIn. I've also got a website, jamesgwinnett.com, which explains more about my personal history and the work that I do in motivational speaking. And the book, as you mentioned, I've got a little copy there. Ready Set Life is available. Just stick Ready Set Life into Google. It should be the first result, or Amazon.
available in hardback, paperback and kindle formats. Yes.
Guy Bloom (1:03:47)
So listen, I would definitely suggest people go and read the book.
Ready Set Life, think it's going to be very valuable to people. I want to thank you personally for coming on, giving me some of your time. You know, sometimes conversations are a little bit painful. ⁓ This is a great conversation. It was just easy to listen to you. that means a lot, you know, if it's easy to listen, then I think then you've probably got something that's worth listening to. So for me and everybody else listening, just thank you so much for being on this episode.
James Gwinnett (1:04:04)
Ha! Ha!
My pleasure. Thank you for those kind words and saying that I was nice to listen to. It's lovely to hear. But no, it's thank you to you because it's your time and it's your expertise putting this together and your recording equipment and all the rest of it. So it's thank you to you.