Have you ever had a close call that could've ended in disaster? Debbie Clark joins us to share her personal stories of two such incidents. Listen in as we analyze the states and errors that led to these situations, and learn critical error reduction techniques that can help you avoid similar incidents in your life.
Host: Danny Smith
Guest: Debbie Clark
Have you ever had a close call that could've ended in disaster? Debbie Clark joins us to share her personal stories of two such incidents. Listen in as we analyze the states and errors that led to these situations, and learn critical error reduction techniques that can help you avoid similar incidents in your life.
Host: Danny Smith
Guest: Debbie Clark
Welcome back to Safe Talk with Safe Start. I'm Danny Smith and today we continue our story series with Debbie Clark. So, Debbie, welcome back to the podcast.
Debbie Clark:Thanks for having me back.
Danny Smith:So a little background on Debbie. She holds a bachelor's in business management with an emphasis in organizational behavior. She's managed numerous teams over the last 25 years and currently holds what I believe may be one of the toughest jobs at Safe Start is the director of consulting services. So you stay pretty busy with us right, keeping us all in line.
Debbie Clark:I do and I love it. I really do.
Danny Smith:Yeah, it's got to be kind of like herding 20 plus alpha cats.
Debbie Clark:I guess you could say Yes, I'm like, I feel like an air traffic controller on an aircraft carrier.
Danny Smith:So let me remind everybody how this series works.
Danny Smith:Debbie's going to tell us her Safe Start story and then we'll give you a chance just to pause the podcast and you can discuss it with your team And then, finally, Debbie and I will come back and we'll go through the states' errors and CERTs and talk about the story a bit.
Danny Smith:One of the other things that's very interesting about Debbie and I find just really really fascinating is she is a really really fantastic wildlife photographer. She loves shooting wildlife. She has a few eagles that live near her. In fact, my wife Angie and I were up near where she lives in Southern Tennessee back I guess it was last fall and had the opportunity to go out with her and her husband Ricky and see the eagles that she shoots so many photographs of. They're just really really amazing to see the eagles that she shares And just. We'll talk more about that later, but that's a bit more about some of the things that Debbie loves doing, which actually ties back into her story just a little bit. So, Debbie, if you would kind of take it away from there and tell us a bit about what happened.
Debbie Clark:Well, there's really two stories. I had fallen several times in recent months. Once I was falling at the steps from the garage and tripped and fell into the wood door. I worked from home, so I ran down the steps to get something out of the garage and then ran back up, tripped, going up the stairs, slammed my face against the wood door that was closed, by the way and broke my nose.
Debbie Clark:And the next time, which was soon after that, I was sitting at my desk and I can look out or I used to. I changed offices but I look out and I can see wildlife out of. I live on the river, so I can see wildlife out the window and I saw a beautiful juvenile eagle And so I leave my camera out. And I grabbed my camera and I went running out the door to take a picture. I have a great big lens, a long lens, and my husband had just told me that morning he had said I'm fixing the wood planks on the deck, so be careful, don't step in that wood plank. So you foreshadow what happened I'm running out to take a picture, I'm not looking anywhere And one leg goes in that hole And I almost dropped my very expensive camera that all the consultants bought for me.
Debbie Clark:I had it holding it above my head with one leg in the hole, one leg out, holding my camera up. Needless to say, I missed the picture of the eagle, so, but I could have really hurt myself. You know, if I had gone completely through the deck. I did break my nose on the other fall that I had.
Danny Smith:Right. So you broke your nose going into the door but fortunately saved the camera as you were falling through the deck right Very good, exactly.
Danny Smith:All right. So we're going to give everybody a chance now to pause the recording and give you the opportunity just to talk about Debbie's story, or stories. Actually, I guess you could say among yourselves And remember, as you go through those two incidents, think about both of those in terms of states and errors, but also think about critical error reduction techniques that may have prevented each one or could prevent something similar from happening in the future And Debbie kind of alluded a bit to how that could have been potentially worse. But kind of have a conversation about that as well, And we'll be back right after you have a few minutes to talk about that. All right, Debbie, we're back, So let's talk about why. Don't we start with the first incident there where you broke your nose? What states do you think you were in when that happened, when you were going back up the stairs?
Debbie Clark:Well, when the first incident where I broke my nose was definitely, I was complacent or I was really talented falling up the steps. I mean, who falls up the steps?
Danny Smith:You know it's funny you say that up because that's one of the little things that I joke about in when we're doing unit one. We've got that list of common injuries or common close calls and 13 different items there and one of them is falling down the stairs. And I always joke and say, hey, if you're talented like me, you've fallen going up the stairs and you'd be surprised. It's probably 25% of every room that kind of giggles and sheepishly raises their hands there. So you're not alone in that. I always say you get bonus points if you're falling up and down the stairs. I'm right there with you And, like I said, not surprising. A lot of the folks are the same way. So what about the second thing where you grabbed your camera and went rushing out onto the deck there? I guess I kind of gave that away, didn't I? But anyway, what do you see there as you're hurrying out onto the deck there?
Debbie Clark:Maybe I should say Well, I almost dropped my camera and obviously it was my husband's fault because he should have put something over the hole, but I'm not going to blame him. Sweetie, I knew the plank was missing. In other words, I was fully aware of the hazards. So that really speaks to the power of human factors. They can easily override what you know and create a performance error or an error that can get you hurt. And this was really bad because I'm not very athletic. So the whole leg, and one leg in and one leg out, was not good.
Danny Smith:I've had similar situations with that myself and that's quite painful, right, and especially when you're not expecting something like that. Not that we would ever expect to step in a hole. It's not like as Kevin Cobb, our producer, often says. It's not like you look and see a hole and say, oh, I think I'll step in, that. You know you intentionally step around it, right? So in this case, fair to say, just a bit of rushing there, maybe a bit of excitement too. One of those other human factors we don't, you know it's not on the SafeS tart card, but it's certainly one of the other human factors that we see that contribute here, right?
Debbie Clark:Yes, for sure.
Danny Smith:So in both of those cases, it sounds like you, the state you're in, really contributed to errors of eyes and mind, not on task, which led to well, I guess you could say line of fire in the first one for sure, and then balance traction and grip with the second one, although arguably line of fire and balance traction and grip could probably be in both of them for sure. So, Debbie, one thing we didn't talk about here was how this could have been worse. You alluded to that a little bit and as you were telling your stories, but thinking about that, let's start with the, the second part of the story there, the second story, I guess, really, which is when you, you fell through the hole there on the deck. How could that part have been worse there?
Debbie Clark:Well, besides, you know, dropping my camera, which I can't replace physically, you know I could have broken my leg because I had one leg out and one leg, or really my hip. I had one leg out and one leg in and in between me, screaming at my husband to come pull me out of the hole, and he could have died. That could have been a worse, but I could have really, really hurt myself. I'm no youngster anymore, so could have pulled that leg out of socket as well, as you know, broken my leg.
Danny Smith:Yeah, I did the. I did the Chevy chase thing one time, kind of Christmas vacation, where you stepped between the rafters in the attic, and so that was my experience with them, the being up to your hip and something. Actually, I didn't go quite to my hip, I think I went about halfway to my knee but still hurt, so I can relate. Well, let's talk about the other one where, where you tripped going up the stairs and broke your nose. How could that one have been worse?
Debbie Clark:Well, it really actually knocked me out. I hit it so hard that it knocked me out and my husband found me as I was waking up. So it could have broken the orbit of my eye because since it did break my nose and I think that nose really saved me from a fate worse than what happened, because I have a big nose. So, it could have broken the orbit of my eye or it could have. It could have really given me a concussion because you know it hit, I hit it so hard that I'm literally there were stars and then there was nothing. I mean, it was really bad.
Danny Smith:Right, good thing Ricky was home as well. Right, that could have been exactly, if you don't tell how long you could have laid there if he had not been home. Right, Right. What CERT or CERTs do you think could have helped to avoid these or maybe to help something like this from happening again in the future?
Debbie Clark:Well, on the one where I busted my nose, I was complacent. Of course, we know that safety related habits are the only way to offset complacency. Therefore, after analyzing what happened, I discovered I developed a bad habit of not always using the handrail, which is like never. I never use the handrail.
Danny Smith:Yeah, and what about the missing plank there? Anything on that?
Debbie Clark:I could have self-triggered on rushing, kept my eyes on the task, or, in this case, on the path. Unfortunately, I didn't. I was left with analyzing close calls.
Danny Smith:And you discovered something else, as you mentioned was, we're kind of getting ready for this session. You mentioned something else about analyzing close calls, something else you recognized with that as well, right.
Debbie Clark:Yes, because I can't think of why do I keep doing this over and over, and I figured out that every time I fell or did something like this, I was wearing my computer glasses. Because I normally, if I'm out and about, I wear bifocals, but when I'm in front of my computer and I would say three-fourths of my time I am sitting in front of my computer I have to wear computer glasses. So when I just for a second, I would take a second and go out and do something, I had those glasses on which morphs the way that you look at the ground or anything really. So what I realized that I needed to start working on the habit that when I step away from my desk for any reason, even just for a second, I take off my computer glasses and I either go without my glasses or switch to my bifocals.
Danny Smith:Makes perfect sense And that's something you had to develop now as a habit. Right, You had to had to practice doing that And that's that's not something we would have on our, our SafeS tart card. But certainly, that would fit into the other for you Right, very good.
Debbie Clark:Exactly.
Danny Smith:So I got to ask Debbie, the busted nose going up the stairs, or if you had broken your camera, which one would have hurt worst.
Debbie Clark:Oh for sure the camera, because y'all bought me the camera that I couldn't have bought myself. I mean, it's a beautiful camera, It was such a sweet gift and that my consultants did So. No, that would have just killed me, So I would have rather both legs through the deck.
Danny Smith:So I just love it. You know you really love the camera, and just not just the camera itself but the sentiments behind it, and all the consultants got that for you. Gosh, it's been a couple of years back now. It's hard to imagine it's been that long, but I know you've been five years, five years and you've really made great use of it. Just, some of your pictures are just absolutely amazing And I know you just love using that right.
Debbie Clark:I do, I do, I love it, it gives me a break and it's, it's. Wildlife is just something that you you, with a camera. I can't draw a stickman, so at least with a camera, I can make beautiful art without having to use any talent whatsoever, because I don't have any.
Danny Smith:I don't know about that. I've seen some of the pictures and they are truly amazing. So that's, that's our time for today. We could talk about wildlife photography for quite a while here, because I love seeing the things that Debbie does and obviously she loves taking the photographs as well. So we'll, we'll, we'll leave that to her. If you want to connect with Debbie about some of the photography that she's done, just reach out to her and she can. she can give you more information on that.
Danny Smith:Remember, with the SafeS tart stories, the big thing that we're trying to do here is we're really trying to help ourselves recognize that state-to-error pattern and to really do that subconsciously so that we don't have to think about it.
Danny Smith:And as our subconscious mind recognizing that pattern, it just helps us to to trigger some of those habits subconsciously where we don't have to think of it, we default to the safe way of doing things just really helps to get us thinking about the stuff that there's going on around us, even though we may not realize that we're thinking again because it's in the subconscious mind, right. So that's where those habits reside And that's part of what this vicarious learning experience of hearing other people's stories and analyzing them really is all about right? So for the entire team here, we really appreciate Debbie joining us today and thank you for joining us as well. Be sure, again to share this, if you haven't already, with others in the organization users as part of the toolbox talk or something like that, and just take that opportunity to pause the podcast in the middle there and review the stories with your team. Just a great, great learning opportunity for everyone. So have a great day and we'll talk again soon.