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SafeTalk with SafeStart
SafeTalk with SafeStart
S14Ep4: The Leadership Launch or Skills First? Solving the SafeLead vs. SafeStart Dilemma
The age-old question faced by many safety professionals isn't whether to implement human factors safety training, but rather where to begin. Should you start with leadership development through SafeLead or build individual safety skills with SafeStart? Our safety implementation specialists join us to help answer this crucial question.
Host: Danny Smith
Guests: Deric Ostrum and Kevin Nix
Danny Smith Host
00:08
Hello and welcome once again to SafeTalk with SafeStart. I'm your host, Danny Smith. Quite often when we have clients who are talking to us about our SafeLead process and our SafeStart process, a question comes up quite often which should I do first? Should I do SafeLead first, or should I do SafeStart first? And my answer is always yes. Maybe that's a bit ambiguous, but it's going to depend from company to company, and also maybe even within a company, it could vary site to site. So today what I've done is we've asked two of our folks who work with SafeLead a lot since that seems to be a bit more of the focus of this conversation our lead SafeLead consultant, Deric Ostrom, and also Kevin Nix, one of our other consultants who does a lot of work with SafeLead, to join us here on the podcast and let's see if we can just dissect this a little bit.
00:59
Gentlemen, first of all, welcome. Great to have both of you back here once again. Everybody doing okay today.
Kevin Nix Guest
I'm outstanding glad to be with you and Deric today, Danny.
Danny Smith Host
So, let's start with just a simple question. What well, I say simple, maybe not so simple. What determines if a client does safe start or SafeLead first, Deric, what would you think would be one of the determining factors there?
Deric Ostrum Guest
01:31
Oh well, good morning, Danny. It's good to be here. I would say it, and that is the toughest question of all. I think you would have to first look at where your internal gaps are. Where are those opportunities? Is it more in leadership, understanding their roles within the system, what their responsibilities are, and are those not hitting on all cylinders from a leadership standpoint? If that's the case, you know you're worried about communication, you're worried about presence on the floor, influence those things.
02:02
I think SafeLead, with that leadership approach, might be the first attack. Go after them first. But if you also, if you have a pretty solid leadership, then maybe SafeStart is more of an option because you would be looking at the folks out on the floor, the in the trenches, the hourly employees, the operators, the team members that are closest to the hazards. If you will, then maybe SafeStart might be the opportunity for you. So, it's a tough decision.
02:32
I think you know when you come in from a safety leadership approach, you look at your data and if you're having lots of injuries, then leaders may tend to go to SafeStart first to protect those frontline workers. But if you're doing well and even if you have opportunities in regards to injuries. Maybe your leadership is the approach to go. So that's why we're having this conversation to kind of talk about which ones are best. But I think if I had to give an answer, it would be if I have gaps in my leadership and I really need to build those communication skills and those responsibilities, then SafeLead. If I need to go to the floor when we need to manage more an individual approach, then I would go to SafeStart.
Danny Smith Host
03:21
That kind of brings me back to the idea of the human factors framework and looking at things which I know we talk about a lot in SafeLead, that kind of brings me back to it. Is it an organizational systems issue? Is it something in those people systems that SafeLead can definitely help with, or is it something more individual in nature? Right, that SafeStart would help to build that awareness and then build those personal safety skills. So, I think that's a great way to approach it, Kevin, any other thoughts on that?
Kevin Nix Guest
03:54
The only thing that I would add, Danny, is the client and the organization is determining which one to begin with first.
04:03
They don't have to make that decision, if you will, in a vacuum, and we're not putting the burden on them to decide so well. Before we do any SafeStart or SafeLead implementation, there's lots of conversations that we're having with them. Folks like yourself, our client success team we're heavily involved in face-to-face, virtual conversations to truly understand where that organization is along its journey, and so we've got a lot of insight and input that we can provide based on those conversations. So, it's what we want clients to understand is this is not exclusive. Ultimately, it's their decision which direction that they would like to go, but we, as leaders in human factors understanding, we do everything we can to help unpack where they're at, given the information that they provide. So, it's a partnership that starts in a very early stage in this journey and we try to walk through each phase, if you will, and help them understand what they should be embarking on first. But I think Deric summarized strategy-wise where we should be looking first very, very well.
Danny Smith Host
05:17
Question for both of you do you have? Can you think of a client that you've worked with where perhaps they've looked at this not just as a okay corporate wide we're going to do an opportunity where we could work with SafeLead first to build up those supervisory skills, versus ABC plant over here on the other coast that they've got pretty good supervisory skills and maybe it's the individual parts that they want to start with? Just curious, have you worked with a client like that where they kind of picked and choose which plants were going to do which first and, if not, do you see that as being something that would work?
Deric Ostrum Guest
06:07
I did, Danny. I worked with currently working with a client who a couple of years ago had one sister site that went with SafeStart first, to go after the individual. You know owning my own safety, teaching individuals how to protect themselves the SafeStart. You know owning my own safety, teaching individuals how to protect themselves the SafeStart. You know that approach.
06:28
And then the other site was beginning to start with SafeStart but then we proposed SafeLead and said we have both of these programs to help and the site thought really hard about it and, to Kevin's point, we coached them and helped them figure out which was the better choice and the second site decided to go with SafeLead first.
06:51
So, we actually had two sites from the same organization practice two different approaches and both were very value added. And then, going back to the original site, they just now kicked off SafeLead value added. And then, going back to the original site, they just now kicked off SafeLead. So, they really are. They're doing both processes but they flipped them to meet their specific needs, and I think it worked out well, especially for the site that did SafeLead first. We did have some opportunities there with leadership and their communication skills and the ability to influence and motivate their teams to make the right decisions, and that was an example where we catered to what the client really needed and just it worked out great for both systems implementing them and both sites are seeing tremendous improvement in not only safety but other areas, other KPIs, and it's been a real joy to work with this group.
Kevin Nix Guest
07:47
Danny, if I could add to that currently working with a client as well and they launched SafeLead as a corporate initiative across multiple locations and then followed suit with the SafeStart Now process, suit with the SafeStart Now process and the one particular location I'm working with right now on SafeLead. One of their leadership executives felt like maybe we should have went with SafeLead with this site first, which I don't know that I'm necessarily in total agreement with that. What we found is by going SafeStart Now first with this particular location, we've got a solid foundation. They've got a pretty resilient leadership team already in place. We're enhancing those skills. I think we're going to dive into this a little bit more, but the advantages at a very high level is we, through the SafeLead process, encourage our leaders to get out and become more visible and more interactive.
08:46
We already have that foundational understanding as it relates to what human factors are, especially what we target in SafeStart Now, which are the four states leading to the heirs. And then we've got the solutions with our reduction techniques. If we truly understand a lot of organizations that move with a corporate initiative, what we caution our clients to do is not take the cookie cutter approach, because, although you've got a corporate culture, you also have individual cultures at each one of your locations. So that goes back to what I mentioned earlier truly understanding what the needs are at that particular location. And Deric said it best. It may be where you've got some gaps with your leadership and the way they interface, and so we've got to shore that up before we ever move forward with trying to help people stay safe 24-7. So, it's a benefit once again to partnering with us at the very early stages and allowing us to provide our insight and guidance as we move forward with either or both implementations.
Danny Smith Host
09:48
Yeah, that kind of leads me to one of the other things I wanted to chat a bit about was what are some of the benefits of doing SafeLead first, or what are some of the benefits of doing SafeStart first, because that may help clients kind of. As you said, we're going to coach them through this process, obviously, but just kind of getting them thinking about, okay, which should I be doing first, maybe outlining some of the benefits of one versus the other. I think that's a great way to start this conversation, if you will. So, you mentioned some of the things there. With SafeStart, you know specifically about building those personal skills which really helps us 24-7, which is a huge aspect of this too and certainly you know learning the SafeLead concepts and learning how to communicate better. Well, that's going to help you 24-7 as well, you know, on and off the job, even with your interpersonal relationships. So, there's a lot of benefit to this for both ways. What would you say are some of the benefits of doing one versus the other first?
Kevin Nix Guest
10:48
For me it really goes back to understanding how much trust and engagement you've got within your culture, whether it's at the site level, even the departmental level, or organizationally speaking. If you've got a lot of trust and the folks feel like they can bring any and everything forward, the benefits of moving with a SafeStart Now process could be advantageous. Some people don't understand how influential human factors are in overall performance. Human factors are in overall performance. Now we tend to focus on the safety side of the equation, but we also tout that our process is improved culture and performance across all spectrums. You know the entire spectrum of the organization. So, the benefits of launching a SafeStart Now process, given you've got the right cultural elements in place now you're beginning to educate people on why we care about their wellbeing and that of their family.
11:53
24/7 and we know that we're far more likely to be injured or even killed off the job. How can we shore up those gaps? Back to what Deric mentioned earlier how can we shore those gaps up when we're not necessarily in an influential position? We've got people captive inside the workplace, if you will, for 8, 10, 12 hours and through the way we lead and influence we can ultimately influence outcomes. But what happens when people walk away from the workplace?
12:26
And so when we give these proven skills and concepts to people so they can refine them and use those off the job, it helps keep people safe, and so we're not necessarily as impacted as we would if they're out of the workplace because of an off-the-job injury and then they bring those skills back and as they refine them off the job, then they're able to share what goes on off the job. And here's where I want to kick it to Deric. One of the things that we tout through both of these processes but real heavily on the SafeStart side of the equation, heavily on the SafeStart side of the equation is the experiences. And so let me just kick it to Deric. I'm not sure folks are kind of tired of hearing me speak but explore the value of sharing personal experiences and how we're utilizing the CERTS, as well as just personal experiences through storytelling so people can analyze Deric.
Deric Ostrum Guest
13:25
Oh yeah, the SafeStart process. Going first is eye-opening, especially to folks who've never seen this process, but that inward focus of looking at yourself and your own life experiences which travels and teaches others through storytelling, and that's a key component of the SafeStart process. Now we do talk about storytelling and the power of stories in the safely process from a leadership perspective, but from SafeStart Now, that's one of the winning moments. Even myself going through it, it's been 13 years ago that I first discovered SafeStart and the big aha moment was what Kevin just brought up the story sharing those personal experiences that we could use to help teach, motivate, inspire other people to make different choices than we did. And I always make the example.
14:23
I've done lots of training in my career and showing people statistics and procedures and all of the different processes of whatever a topic may be. Those things tend to stick, but nothing compares to if someone shares a story. Stories stay with us, and I have a colleague who gave a quote that I continue to use and I'm gonna shout out to Kevin Nix. He called him forever impressions and that's always stuck with me, and I use that in my SafeStart training because when, through the SafeStart process. We share stories, they become forever impressions and then we go to that next level. We dissect them, like Kevin mentioned, we go through the errors, but more importantly, we talk about the CERTS.
15:09
How can we as an individual protect ourselves using these critical error reduction techniques? So, it's much more specific. I think when we go through that SafeStart Now process first, I think when we go through that SafeStart Now process first, it gives the individuals their own power to look within, inward if you would, at my own life experiences through storytelling and then sharing those, and then the whole process of stories beget stories, if I'm using the right word. Every time someone shares a story there's always someone else who has a similar story, and they become contagious. And the best safety meetings that I've always had are the ones when you have to stop people from talking about safety so that we can go do our job. But, like Kevin said, it all comes from that SafeStart awareness internally of our own experiences and sharing those outward.
Danny Smith Host
16:00
You know, one of the things that we talk about a lot with an implementation of SafeStart, or specifically SafeStart Now, is filling in what we call the white space. You do unit one, you've got that. If you're going with the standard break, you've got, you know, one week to four weeks between units. And I know different clients have to do that differently based on production schedules. And all of that it's just schedules, we understand that. But you do have that white space. Regardless of how much time you have, that passes between those units and the supervisor we know has such a huge, huge impact on filling that white space.
16:38
Having those conversations with folks, even if it's just out at their machine.
16:42
You know, hey, you know, have you seen anybody rushing today? Or you know, just simple little conversations, not adding a bunch of stuff to them. But you know some, some leaders are not comfortable having those conversations and so in those cases where you know we want them helping to reinforce that, we want them to be sharing those stories, like both of you were talking about. But if you've got a leader who, for whatever reason maybe it's part of their personality, maybe it's just that they're a younger or inexperienced leader that moved up, maybe from the shop floor itself. Maybe they're just not comfortable sharing those type things and really haven't experience doing that. I would think that might be a situation where SafeLead could help, perhaps on the front side right, and so that would be one of the benefits there. Could you see benefits, and would you talk a little bit about benefits, with starting with SafeLead first, and that would be one that I think of automatically just to kind of reinforce the SafeStart concept when you're implementing that right.
Deric Ostrum Guest
17:46
I really am passionate about SafeLead. I know it's an amazing process going through it and watching leaders develop and grow right in front of your eyes. That's one of my personal rewards. But one of the things that we first start off with SafeLead is what is the role of a leader in the organization? And we go back to what, Danny, you mentioned already and I know we talk about it often on the SafeTalk with SafeStart podcast is the human factors framework and that diagram, or we call it a diagnostic tool. And that diagram, or we call it a diagnostic tool, becomes the core element of all of the teaching we do. And the first module alone is understanding where do I fit in this organization as a leader, as a frontline leader, a supervisor, a manager and so on. And then we grow that awareness to what do I have impact over, what's my realm of influence? And we switch to very high-level concepts like climate versus culture and what do I have impact over and how does climate work day to day? How does culture get changed?
18:52
So, we start with safe lead at this very high level of understanding our role as a leader, and then we go deeper into the framework and understand I have. I basically, as a leader, I have two jobs. I have a job and responsibility to the organization, or what we call the organizational learning loop, but then I also have 20 guys and gals that work for me and I'm responsible for all of them and they all have that individual learning loop that we've learned and talked about so much. And that's where I SafeStart comes in, when I start understanding well what's causing my team members to behave this way, and one of the quotes I use in training is how we feel, is how we act, and that's a key component of SafeLead is getting our leaders to understand what's going on with our employees, why are they acting this way. And then we begin going into those specific skills like no blame, seeking to understand the why, and all those concepts come to play. So, with Safe Lead, we start at a much broader scope of understanding what leadership truly is and then we narrow it down so that we can.
20:01
And to your question is when we have a gap in communicating or facilitating conversations, like a SafeStart story or a toolbox talk or a pre-shift huddle, whatever we call them. That's where safely gets these leaders to manage those conversations and not just be a listener. But when someone does share that personal story that we go back to SafeStart Now, then where's the leadership who facilitates that and says, okay, that was a great story about falling off a ladder at home. Then how is that going to apply to us here at work? What can we learn from Julie's story about falling off a ladder over the weekend? What can we do to be better here at work?
20:43
And you're right, that skill is not just born. Some leaders have it, but that's something that needs to be taught and needs to. You know, those skills need to be developed and that's where SafeLead, I think, comes in. And that might be the first step is going after leaders, first, making sure they understand, first of all going back to what Kevin said what human factors are. But how can I use that information and specifically storytelling to get my team to understand a better way?
Danny Smith Host
21:15
Yeah, one of my favorite quotes and I forget who said it now, so I won't even try to attribute it to the person, but I certainly won't portray it as being original with me. But it's the idea that we manage processes, but we have to lead people right. We manage processes but we have to lead people right. And I think, in getting on my soapbox a little bit here, I think one of the things that I've seen in my career is we have gotten really, really good in a lot of ways at managing technical systems. If we go back to that framework idea, we've gotten pretty good with that, you know. But where we lack is so many times it's just leading people, and you know, that's the key thing here.
21:58
Whether you're talking about SafeLead or SafeStart, I think you've got to get to the point where you realize, hey, it's about having those, those discussions with your folks, and just we had some, some internal notes going around about some other stuff, you other stuff in some emails just the other day. And, Deric, I think one of your comments is isn't it amazing how much of this just comes back to building relationships with your folks? You know, and that's so true, right, Kevin? If you would. Let's bounce over to one other thing real quickly here. When you go to implement SafeLead versus SafeStart or vice versa, what does the implementation itself look like? And I think specifically, how do senior leaders help with that, and why is their support so important for either of the processes or for both of them?
Kevin Nix Guest
22:48
Great question, Danny, if I could start with the 30,000-foot view level. Any change, initiative, safety, quality, anything that an organization embarks upon, if we don't have solid leadership buy-in, it's going to be difficult to even initiate and even sustain. So, we've got to have whether it's SafeLead or SafeStart, we've got to have leadership buy-in and not just the buy-in from the perspective. Okay, I'm going to attend the sessions. I've got to truly realize that they have to adopt this mindset, or we recommend this mindset be adopted. I'm solid at what I do, our business is in good shape, but how can we get better? And both you and Deric have mentioned the framework. That framework is a proven tool. If used, will help us further refine where we're at. We're solid, but we want to get better. We're not seeking perfection, but we are pursuing excellence. So, if leadership is bought in from the onset regardless if it's SafeLead or SafeStart Now we've got the foundation that's needed to build upon. If not, it may take some time to get people on board. We've got to educate them. We have to help them see the value of this investment. We have to help them see the value of this investment.
24:11
As far as the implementation itself, they are a little different. The safely process ultimately, we're targeting the leadership structures of any organization, from the frontline leadership role all the way to the executive level. Deric and I have worked with a couple of clients together in tandem where we've coached quite a number of leaders throughout that leadership spectrum. So, we've had executives that we've coached, we've had frontline leaders and everybody in between. So, the SafeLead implementation we're ultimately focusing on how we can either educate or further enhance their capabilities to influence outcomes. And if I could come back to what you said, Danny, we really don't manage people, although there's this paradigm that we do. We're all independent and autonomous beings. We want what we want, but how can we influence for better performance? And that's what the SafeLead process helps us do is realize that if we really manage systems very, very, very well, then the outcomes will be far more sustainable because we're influencing people for better performance. So that implementation is really going to be focused on how do we get people aligned?
25:31
We call it, first and foremost, we do an introductory webinar where we've got everybody that's going to be participatory in these sessions. It's a one-hour just introduction of what SafeLead is. And then we're going to move on-site into a leadership alignment session. We want to get everybody on the same song sheet, so to speak. There is a facility tour and we're able to grasp certain elements of what we see, and we can kind of roll that into the discussion. And then we're asking the leadership team to define and identify a couple of key objectives what are you hopeful to attain through this process? And then, once we navigate through that, then the consultant, we summarize all and we move right into the coaching sessions. And that may vary depending upon the size of the. You know the, the client, but these, these, the very interactive, very intense sessions, they're very small, one consultant to no more than about three participants, and these three-hour sessions go by with a snap of a finger and so it's, it's so. It's a lot of interaction, kind of face-to-face, whereas on the SafeStart side of things we still get the leadership bought in and aligned. But now we're going to move into a couple of I call them prerequisites. We've got to make sure that we discuss how impactful leadership is to the overall implementation. Once again, we're going to ask them to identify their desired outcomes.
27:00
But one of the things that we do additionally with the SafeStart process is provide a steering committee.
27:07
We want folks that are representative of the entire organization, site-specific, if you will, kind of steering the direction, and so we educate the folks on that process and we actually get people to volunteer and be a participant in the overall success.
27:25
They must own the process and so through our coaching and onsite work, we're actually helping tap into some of the folks that are essential to fill these roles.
27:35
The other thing that we do is the sustainability piece, and I won't belabor this too much, but you mentioned that white space or those three to four weeks in between unit training. What are they doing to enhance, improve and hold accountable the people on their team as it relates to the concepts that were taught? Then we just move right into the unit training, the concepts that were taught, and then we just move right into the unit training. We will, we will educate the folks on what human factors are and in SafeStart we really focus on the four most common that Larry and his team identified those, those States that lead to those pesky errors that we never intended to make. And then the solution Deric mentioned those reduction techniques earlier. That's where, through that four-unit core of material, we're able to unpack and help give the solution to these things that can become so problematic, and it catches when we least expect it. So hopefully I've done a good job of kind of comparing the two as far as the implementation process goes.
Danny Smith Host
28:48
You know one thing you mentioned there if I can throw this over to Deric for a second here you know you've talked about how that senior leaders have to support either of the processes. But I think one key component with SafeLead that differs a bit from SafeStart is with SafeStart, we're having conversations with folks, and you can have those regardless of your level in the organization. If you're the CEO, if you're the plant manager or frontline leader, you can be having those conversations and should be having those conversations with everybody. But with SafeLead, Kevin mentioned that we have these meetings up front to define the expectations of the person who's going through there, but also the managers who are going to be reinforcing those concepts with those team members who are going through as participants and building their personal action plans, which is a big part of SafeLead.
29:42
Deric, if you would jump in on this, talk about the role of the manager there with their folks. They've got a lot of interaction too and just following up and making sure hey, not just an accountability thing, but hey, you had down on your action plan, you were working on this particular skill. Tell me how that's going and then they can help reinforce that. That's a big part of SafeLead as well for our senior leaders, right? Oh yeah.
Deric Ostrum Guest
30:08
SafeLead doesn't exist if we didn't have it. And what you basically described, Danny, are what we call in safely, these touch points. And touch points are. It's a phrase we use to make sure that managers, senior leaders, are talking to their people and it's a value-added touch point. It's not just hey, it's not what's going on immediately. Today we talk about putting out fires. That's what leaders do. They're firefighters all day long. What's the new? What fire's bigger than the next one? What's my priority? And the business usually determines that. Is it a quality issue, customer service? Is it a safety issue? And those priorities switch and move up into that number one slot and those priorities switch and move up into that number one slot.
30:54
But from a SafeLead standpoint, success is measured by a quote that I've used for years we inspect what we expect right and when a manager, a senior leader, has a touch point, then they're reinforcing those learnings. But, more importantly, they're showing that they care, they're showing that they want these skills to be developed. And the challenge becomes with these senior leaders who don't make the time for these touch points. And Kevin and I have seen it all the SafeLead consultants have seen it that when we are going through the SafeLead process. Those managers who are engaged with the leaders, who are participants, find more success. They find that these skills become habit because they're being reinforced, I use another quote all the time where the head goes, the tail follows. And if the leadership at the site or the senior leadership does not have touch points, then we see these skills start to disappear. And so, like SafeStart, if we don't have that continuous reinforcement by just talking about these concepts, using the language, then the skills are not going to stick. And so, safely, we build that in, we make that, and Kevin talked about this the training sessions are spread out such that we can practice these skills, the white space in between and that's where the leadership has to play a part.
32:14
And when they do have these conversations and these aren't earth shattering type of skills we're talking about here these are things like positive feedback. These are things like just practicing being a leader. Are you inserting yourself in the conversation? What are you talking about? And some of these touch points can be one-on-ones and I encourage leadership to schedule one-on-ones.
32:36
But the trap that I'm seeing, especially here lately in the last year or so, is when senior leaders schedule one-on-ones with their direct reports. Those one-on-one meetings turn into a firefighting session and instead of talking about are we having the right skills. Did you get a chance to use safely this week? What did you do? Did you talk to so-and-so who we heard? You know had a loved one pass away last week. Where's her head today? Those are the conversations we should be having instead of did you get that email this morning? What are you going to do about it?
33:09
And we drift away from being that influential leader and more of a firefighter which that trickles down. Like I said, whatever's important. I'm going to quote Larry Pearlman. He does a great quote. Whatever's important to my boss should fascinate me. And if your boss is just focused on putting out that fire for today, well, guess what? All their direct reports are going to be focused on putting those specific fires out. But if a senior leader is focused on developing relationships, spending a few moments talking to our people about what's on their heads, what's on their minds today, what's in their heads, excuse me, that's how we become stronger and that's what we teach leaders in SafeLead. So, these touch points become critical. Going back to your comment, if the senior leadership is not on board. Like anything else, any initiative that we do, it's not going to be successful, but when they are on board, it's pretty amazing to watch, absolutely.
Danny Smith Host
34:04
All right, I feel like one of the old shows like Jerry Springer here. Any closing comments here as we go through this, any stone that we left unturned here. I think we did a pretty good job digging around in the riverbed here looking for the gold. But anything else that you'd like to add, just to kind of wrap this conversation up, for SafeLead or SafeStart, I don't know that we fully answered which one is correct, because it's going to vary site to site, client to client, right, and I think that's the big thing. We started with that up front and I think that's still going to be the question. But I think both of you talked about how we as an organization with SafeStart, we as consultants, our, our sales team, our support staff we can help coach people through this on the front end, right, and which one should be right for each group, right? So, anything kind of in closing here for either one of you.
Deric Ostrum Guest
34:55
One of the things when I have clients who have both SafeStart and SafeLead, I break it down. In the military we call it break it down Barney style, right, even so, anyone could understand it. But one of the things that stuck with me is when I look at SafeStart and we've talked about this. SafeStart is the individual it's what can I do to keep myself safe today and every day, whether I'm at work, behind the wheel or at home, and I like that. That SafeStart is that 24-7 approach to managing personal safety.
35:26
SafeLead, in my opinion, teaches leaders how to manage their direct reports human factors, right. How do I keep my people safe today, which is what we all should be doing, as leaders, as parents, as grandparents, as family members, even at work. So, the SafeStart is more looking inward at myself, and SafeLead is how can I protect my team? What can I do to make sure they go home to their families every day and build that system? Organizational and individual loop bring them closer together, where SafeStart is more of just the individual learning loop. So that's my two cents on the two different processes that we offer.
Danny Smith Host
Absolutely Great.
Kevin Nix Guest
36:11
And in closing, Danny, I guess Deri mentioned Barney. Are you referring to Barney Fife?
Deric Ostrum Guest
36:17
No, the dinosaur Barney. It was kind of an insult when we were told we're going to break this down Barney style, so even you can understand it. But it built us up as stronger Marines.
Danny Smith Host
36:30
I can just imagine a drill instructor breaking it down Barney style too. I bet that was a very loving way of coaching, right?
Deric Ostrum Guest
36:38
Uh-huh, oh yeah.
Kevin Nix Guest
36:41
My mind went immediately to Barney Fife, and one of the things that Barney Fife, on the Andy Griffith show, is famous for saying is let's nip it...
36:48
Nip it in the bud.
36:49
We want to nip these unwanted events in the bud, and the best way to do that is understanding how influential human factors play a role. So back to what I mentioned earlier, Danny, understanding where our, our, culture is, the gaps more on the individual perspectives side of things? Do our folks truly understand how their feelings and emotions impact their outcomes, or is it more on the systems side of things, the things that management, leadership, has a responsibility for creating and managing? So ultimately, by nipping it in the bud, we partner with our clients and we get as close to you as you will allow us, and we get quite invasive, asking lots of questions, which gives us the capability to take the partnership deeper and walk in tandem with you, whether it's the safe lead first or SafeStart first, whether it's the SafeLead first or SafeStart first, and we compliment what you're hopeful to achieve by giving you proven solutions that will give you the results that you want to see. So always a pleasure to work with both of you, gentlemen, on things like this.
Danny Smith Host
38:06
Great to have both of you with us today here on the podcast. Thanks so much for your insight on this. For our listeners, if you're still having questions in terms of what should you do first, we'd love to talk with you a bit more about that. Obviously, we're available to talk with you. Your client managers, our sales VPs, all sorts of folks in our organization just love to have those conversations with you and help you to work through those processes internally in considering what should you do first SafeLead or SafeStart or perhaps some other things. You know, perhaps like us helping you with some assessments or things like that as well. Certainly, those are options as well that we can explore, just to help you to determine what is the right step for your organization. So, we'd love to have more conversations with you about that. So, thanks again, gentlemen, for being with us today. Thanks to our listeners for joining us as well. Hopefully, we've entertained you a bit as well as educated a bit, and I think ending on Barney Fife versus Barney the Purple Dinosaur or Jerry Springer is probably a good way to wrap this up too, right? So, anyway, thanks for everybody for being with us today.
39:15
I'm Danny Smith for SafeTalk with SafeStart. Have a great day everyone.