{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.003,"body":"[Autogenerated Transcript]"},{"startTime":3.003,"endTime":6.206,"body":"BioCentury This Week"},{"startTime":3.003,"endTime":6.206,"body":"is brought to you by IQVIA Biotech."},{"startTime":6.539,"endTime":9.609,"body":"A full-service CRO"},{"startTime":6.539,"endTime":9.609,"body":"right sized for biotech."},{"startTime":9.876,"endTime":13.546,"body":"Dedicated to helping biotech leaders"},{"startTime":9.876,"endTime":13.546,"body":"close unproductive gaps in clinical"},{"startTime":13.546,"endTime":18.318,"body":"development so they can protect timelines,"},{"startTime":13.546,"endTime":18.318,"body":"preserve capital and stay ahead of risk."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":23.857,"endTime":29.896,"body":"2026 AACR conference"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":23.857,"endTime":29.896,"body":"has wrapped in San Diego."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":30.53,"endTime":36.236,"body":"We here at BioCentury have"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":30.53,"endTime":36.236,"body":"found 175 new oncology targets."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":36.469,"endTime":42.976,"body":"Pan-RAS inhibitor ADCs were in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":36.469,"endTime":42.976,"body":"the spotlight at the conference."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":43.176,"endTime":48.248,"body":"We'll have Lauren Martz on to tell"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":43.176,"endTime":48.248,"body":"you what she has found digging"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":48.248,"endTime":51.017,"body":"through the thousands of abstracts"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":51.051,"endTime":53.319,"body":"out of this year's event."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":53.753,"endTime":58.691,"body":"Kurma Partners has a new biotech"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":53.753,"endTime":58.691,"body":"fund, what does the European VC's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":58.725,"endTime":64.631,"body":"experience building this vehicle"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":58.725,"endTime":64.631,"body":"this time around say about early"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":64.631,"endTime":67.834,"body":"stage venture fundraising right now."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":68.134,"endTime":74.007,"body":"Plus we'll have the latest in BioCentury's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":68.134,"endTime":74.007,"body":"Emerging Company Profile series."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":74.207,"endTime":79.079,"body":"I'm Jeff Cranmer, Executive Editor here"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":74.207,"endTime":79.079,"body":"at BioCentury, and joining me to discuss"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":79.079,"endTime":85.351,"body":"all of this, our Editor in Chief, Simone"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":79.079,"endTime":85.351,"body":"Fishburn, Lauren Martz, Executive Director"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":85.351,"endTime":94.26,"body":"of Biopharma Intelligence and Stephen"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":85.351,"endTime":94.26,"body":"Hansen, BioCentury's man in the U.K. Okay."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":94.26,"endTime":99.099,"body":"Speaking of Europe, we are days"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":94.26,"endTime":99.099,"body":"away from BioCentury 26th, Bio€quity"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":100.133,"endTime":103.97,"body":"Europe investor and CEO Conference."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":104.237,"endTime":107.373,"body":"The event kicks off May 4th in Prague."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":107.373,"endTime":108.975,"body":"Limited seats remain."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":109.175,"endTime":112.779,"body":"So register now and you'll get"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":109.175,"endTime":112.779,"body":"to meet Stephen and Simone in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":112.779,"endTime":116.649,"body":"person along with our Washington"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":112.779,"endTime":116.649,"body":"Editor Steve Usdin, who will be in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":116.649,"endTime":123.089,"body":"conversation with Richard Pazdur"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":116.649,"endTime":123.089,"body":"formerly of FDA, long time FDA leader."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":123.389,"endTime":128.328,"body":"And we'll also have our buddy"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":123.389,"endTime":128.328,"body":"Josh Berlin, our man behind the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":128.328,"endTime":130.263,"body":"BioCentury conference curtain."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":130.63,"endTime":135.668,"body":"Following that meeting, we're very excited"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":130.63,"endTime":135.668,"body":"to be bringing our BioCentury Grand Rounds"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":135.668,"endTime":138.738,"body":"meeting to Seattle, that will be in June."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":139.005,"endTime":144.644,"body":"I am currently recruiting early stage"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":139.005,"endTime":144.644,"body":"companies to take the stage and tell"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":144.644,"endTime":150.383,"body":"their stories in front of our audience"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":144.644,"endTime":150.383,"body":"of academic researchers, venture"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":150.383,"endTime":153.953,"body":"capitalists, and early stage biotechs."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":154.187,"endTime":158.258,"body":"We'll be discussing bottlenecks"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":154.187,"endTime":158.258,"body":"in translation, how to solve them."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":158.458,"endTime":160.126,"body":"register for the event."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":160.226,"endTime":164.43,"body":"If you want to get up on stage and tell"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":160.226,"endTime":164.43,"body":"your story as a presenting company."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":164.631,"endTime":170.236,"body":"Reach out to me now via LinkedIn, or"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":164.631,"endTime":170.236,"body":"you can find me here at BioCentury."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":170.503,"endTime":177.544,"body":"Okay, The American Association for"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":170.503,"endTime":177.544,"body":"Cancer Research, AACR has just wrapped"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":177.544,"endTime":179.812,"body":"its annual meeting down in San Diego."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":180.013,"endTime":185.585,"body":"Lauren as ever has spent quite"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":180.013,"endTime":185.585,"body":"a bit of time diving into the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":185.585,"endTime":188.655,"body":"sea of new oncology targets."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":188.655,"endTime":189.756,"body":"Lauren, what did you find?"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":190.69,"endTime":191.491,"body":"Thanks, Jeff."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":191.491,"endTime":194.894,"body":"I found a lot this year thanks"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":191.491,"endTime":194.894,"body":"to some new technologies."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":194.894,"endTime":203.469,"body":"We found about 175 new targets that are"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":194.894,"endTime":203.469,"body":"either new to us at BioCentury completely"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":203.503,"endTime":208.341,"body":"for any indication or targets that we"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":203.503,"endTime":208.341,"body":"just haven't seen before for cancer and"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":208.341,"endTime":211.678,"body":"that have no products against them in"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":208.341,"endTime":211.678,"body":"the, in the clinic or in preclinical"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":211.678,"endTime":212.912,"body":"development that we've heard about."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":213.413,"endTime":216.749,"body":"The big take homes from this big list."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":216.749,"endTime":222.021,"body":"I think were first of all that"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":216.749,"endTime":222.021,"body":"breast cancer and lung cancer"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":222.055,"endTime":223.356,"body":"continue to be the focus."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":223.356,"endTime":226.659,"body":"That's probably not news to anyone."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":226.893,"endTime":230.964,"body":"But then when you go down further into"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":226.893,"endTime":230.964,"body":"the indications that people are trying"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":230.964,"endTime":234.968,"body":"to find new targets for, there's a"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":230.964,"endTime":234.968,"body":"lot of activity in ovarian cancer."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":235.001,"endTime":239.272,"body":"There's a lot of activity in"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":235.001,"endTime":239.272,"body":"colorectal cancer prostate cancer."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":239.606,"endTime":243.243,"body":"And behind those was brain cancer,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":239.606,"endTime":243.243,"body":"glioblastoma was the, the big"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":243.243,"endTime":244.844,"body":"focus in the brain cancer category."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":245.178,"endTime":249.082,"body":"So um I think when you dig into the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":245.178,"endTime":249.082,"body":"types of indications that, that these"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":249.082,"endTime":252.752,"body":"new targets are applying to  there are"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":249.082,"endTime":252.752,"body":"some interesting bits along the line."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":253.186,"endTime":258.258,"body":"There are very few you know, only a"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":253.186,"endTime":258.258,"body":"handful of new targets for heme cancers,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":258.258,"endTime":262.495,"body":"which is probably just based on the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":258.258,"endTime":262.495,"body":"nature of this meeting, which is uh"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":262.495,"endTime":264.43,"body":"a bit more focused on solid tumors."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":264.731,"endTime":270.036,"body":"But maybe a bit reflective of the fact"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":264.731,"endTime":270.036,"body":"that, you know, when you look into all"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":270.036,"endTime":276.009,"body":"of these targets that are proposed to"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":270.036,"endTime":276.009,"body":"have immunomodulatory mechanisms, there"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":276.009,"endTime":281.247,"body":"aren't a lot of sort of T cell function"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":276.009,"endTime":281.247,"body":"promoting new targets in the mix."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":281.247,"endTime":283.316,"body":"And, you know, a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":281.247,"endTime":283.316,"body":"T cell based therapies are"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":283.316,"endTime":284.784,"body":"for the heme cancers as well."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":285.051,"endTime":289.055,"body":"Not a lot of melanoma in, in the mix"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":285.051,"endTime":289.055,"body":"either, which I thought was interesting."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":289.322,"endTime":292.458,"body":"And again, not a lot of checkpoint"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":289.322,"endTime":292.458,"body":"targets that we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":292.458,"endTime":293.926,"body":"proposed at this conference."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":294.661,"endTime":298.197,"body":"Lauren, I think this is"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":294.661,"endTime":298.197,"body":"super interesting and I'm sure everyone"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":298.197,"endTime":299.599,"body":"will wanna know what are the new targets?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":300.133,"endTime":302.502,"body":"I do wanna ask you a couple of questions."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":302.902,"endTime":307.54,"body":"First of all it's AACR, which tends to"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":302.902,"endTime":307.54,"body":"be a meeting for earlier stage science."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":307.84,"endTime":313.646,"body":"So reasonable to assume that most of"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":307.84,"endTime":313.646,"body":"these are sort of still preclinical in"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":313.646,"endTime":315.715,"body":"terms of investigation for these targets."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":316.182,"endTime":319.552,"body":"And the other thing that sort of bigger"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":316.182,"endTime":319.552,"body":"picture that I wanted to ask you  do"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":319.552,"endTime":325.558,"body":"you find that they're really bringing"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":319.552,"endTime":325.558,"body":"new mechanisms into some of these"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":325.558,"endTime":327.26,"body":"indications that you've talked about?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":327.527,"endTime":329.162,"body":"You know, I know that"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":327.527,"endTime":329.162,"body":"you're segregating them."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":329.162,"endTime":332.398,"body":"Can you talk a little bit"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":329.162,"endTime":332.398,"body":"about the mechanistic kind of"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":332.598,"endTime":334.067,"body":"categorization that you're going for?"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":335.068,"endTime":335.635,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":335.668,"endTime":339.172,"body":"So for your first question, these"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":335.668,"endTime":339.172,"body":"are absolutely preclinical targets."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":339.405,"endTime":344.11,"body":"I think BioCentury  is good at keeping"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":339.405,"endTime":344.11,"body":"track of what's moving into the clinic."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":344.11,"endTime":345.945,"body":"These are things that we've"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":344.11,"endTime":345.945,"body":"never heard of before."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":346.612,"endTime":352.085,"body":"So these are sort of at a basic science,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":346.612,"endTime":352.085,"body":"maybe translational science level, things"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":352.085,"endTime":357.39,"body":"that institutions and companies are"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":352.085,"endTime":357.39,"body":"picking out as a potential new target"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":357.39,"endTime":361.861,"body":"through different types of screening, and"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":357.39,"endTime":361.861,"body":"then often validated in animal models."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":361.861,"endTime":363.629,"body":"But we're not seeing"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":361.861,"endTime":363.629,"body":"these in the clinic yet."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":363.93,"endTime":367.7,"body":"So this is the earliest stage of"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":363.93,"endTime":367.7,"body":"new targets that are being proposed."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":368.034,"endTime":374.04,"body":"And then mechanistically, we are"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":368.034,"endTime":374.04,"body":"breaking these targets down by"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":374.14,"endTime":375.375,"body":"sort of functional categories."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":376.242,"endTime":380.046,"body":"And as we know, a lot of, you know,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":376.242,"endTime":380.046,"body":"any molecular target has lots of"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":380.046,"endTime":383.516,"body":"different functions in the body and"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":380.046,"endTime":383.516,"body":"even, you know, within a tumor setting."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":383.916,"endTime":389.856,"body":"So our categorization is heavily based"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":383.916,"endTime":389.856,"body":"on what is proposed in the abstract, and"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":389.856,"endTime":394.594,"body":"we've also incorporated some external"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":389.856,"endTime":394.594,"body":"literature based information on how"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":394.594,"endTime":398.498,"body":"this works in cancer to  characterize"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":394.594,"endTime":398.498,"body":"these in the best way possible based"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":398.498,"endTime":399.932,"body":"on the new information that we have."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":400.366,"endTime":401.3,"body":"The categories,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":401.3,"endTime":403.77,"body":"there are a lot of broad categories"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":401.3,"endTime":403.77,"body":"that aren't that surprising."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":403.77,"endTime":408.274,"body":"We have transcriptional regulators"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":403.77,"endTime":408.274,"body":"and modulators of immune function,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":408.274,"endTime":411.611,"body":"epigenetic targets, things like that"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":408.274,"endTime":411.611,"body":"that we follow throughout the years."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":411.978,"endTime":416.315,"body":"Some things that I found interesting"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":411.978,"endTime":416.315,"body":"as potential, maybe not new, but"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":416.315,"endTime":418.818,"body":"just sort of trends in mechanisms."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":419.152,"endTime":424.357,"body":"One is within that immune"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":419.152,"endTime":424.357,"body":"category, there are quite a few."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":424.891,"endTime":427.96,"body":"That are modulating the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":424.891,"endTime":427.96,"body":"tumor microenvironment more"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":427.96,"endTime":429.295,"body":"than I've seen in the past."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":429.295,"endTime":434.133,"body":"So these are, maybe targets"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":429.295,"endTime":434.133,"body":"that specifically are designed"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":434.133,"endTime":436.936,"body":"to break down the collagen in"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":434.133,"endTime":436.936,"body":"the tumor microenvironment."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":436.936,"endTime":441.607,"body":"So, so checkpoint inhibitors can work"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":436.936,"endTime":441.607,"body":"what better or things that can sort"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":441.607,"endTime":446.412,"body":"of repolarize the immune cells in the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":441.607,"endTime":446.412,"body":"tumor microenvironment or um different"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":446.412,"endTime":448.514,"body":"ways of targeting the fibroblasts there."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":448.514,"endTime":453.286,"body":"So that was one category that"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":448.514,"endTime":453.286,"body":"I've seen tick up over the years."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":453.519,"endTime":459.058,"body":"I also saw quite a few, targets"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":453.519,"endTime":459.058,"body":"involved in ferroptosis, so  promoting"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":459.058,"endTime":463.196,"body":"ferroptosis to kill tumor cells through"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":459.058,"endTime":463.196,"body":"this iron overload mechanism, which"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":463.196,"endTime":465.331,"body":"is sort of separate from apoptosis."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":465.331,"endTime":470.336,"body":"And um kind of gets around some"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":465.331,"endTime":470.336,"body":"of those mechanisms that tumors"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":470.67,"endTime":472.338,"body":"develop to avoid apoptosis."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":472.338,"endTime":476.108,"body":"So, not a new idea, but just a cluster"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":472.338,"endTime":476.108,"body":"of, of um targets that we've seen"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":476.909,"endTime":478.778,"body":"This is really"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":476.909,"endTime":478.778,"body":"interesting, Lauren, and you"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":478.778,"endTime":481.814,"body":"know, we've been writing back"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":478.778,"endTime":481.814,"body":"about ferroptosis for a while."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":481.814,"endTime":485.017,"body":"It's really cool to see, I think"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":481.814,"endTime":485.017,"body":"sometimes these things go in and"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":485.017,"endTime":486.986,"body":"out and if there's a, a new wave."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":487.353,"endTime":492.425,"body":"So, Lauren on melanoma, which is"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":487.353,"endTime":492.425,"body":"obviously still a really urgent need,"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":492.425,"endTime":494.126,"body":"it's not like that's been solved."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":494.327,"endTime":498.164,"body":"Do you think that it's sort of a"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":494.327,"endTime":498.164,"body":"question that there's a lot of good"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":498.331,"endTime":502.635,"body":"targets out there and these are"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":498.331,"endTime":502.635,"body":"working their ways through pipelines,"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":502.935,"endTime":506.973,"body":"maybe the innovations in modalities,"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":502.935,"endTime":506.973,"body":"or do you just think the field is"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":507.073,"endTime":508.875,"body":"still working out new biology there?"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":509.575,"endTime":513.045,"body":"That's a really good"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":509.575,"endTime":513.045,"body":"question and I think there is a lot"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":513.045,"endTime":514.914,"body":"in clinical development for melanoma."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":514.914,"endTime":518.484,"body":"We obviously have the PD-1"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":514.914,"endTime":518.484,"body":"inhibitors, which that's sort"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":518.484,"endTime":521.02,"body":"of their main indication, the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":518.484,"endTime":521.02,"body":"most successful indication."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":521.354,"endTime":523.923,"body":"But then when you think about"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":521.354,"endTime":523.923,"body":"the programs that are advancing"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":523.923,"endTime":526.893,"body":"through the clinic, you've got"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":523.923,"endTime":526.893,"body":"combinations with PD-1 inhibitors."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":526.893,"endTime":532.198,"body":"The CTLA-4 next generation class is a big"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":526.893,"endTime":532.198,"body":"one that really is driving up efficacy."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":532.465,"endTime":535.368,"body":"There are the mRNA cancer vaccines."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":535.368,"endTime":541.207,"body":"The, a lot of the immune directed"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":535.368,"endTime":541.207,"body":"mechanisms are seeking those"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":541.207,"endTime":543.976,"body":"proof of concept indications"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":541.207,"endTime":543.976,"body":"in melanoma at this time."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":544.21,"endTime":547.747,"body":"So it may be that there are"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":544.21,"endTime":547.747,"body":"a lot of different ways to."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":547.847,"endTime":551.617,"body":"double, maybe, you know, improve on"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":547.847,"endTime":551.617,"body":"that efficacy that we've seen in the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":551.617,"endTime":553.486,"body":"last 10 years from the PD-1 inhibitors."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":553.486,"endTime":555.521,"body":"So I think that that probably"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":553.486,"endTime":555.521,"body":"has something to do with it."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":556.923,"endTime":559.525,"body":"Lauren, I, I, I just"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":556.923,"endTime":559.525,"body":"wanted to ask you a question, because I'm"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":559.525,"endTime":563.229,"body":"guessing you're not gonna be writing about"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":559.525,"endTime":563.229,"body":"this in your story, but can you think"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":563.229,"endTime":567.9,"body":"of, were there any of the new targets"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":563.229,"endTime":567.9,"body":"that had like, the most fun or cool name?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":568.234,"endTime":572.471,"body":"Because like, I always thought like,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":568.234,"endTime":572.471,"body":"you know, hedgehog Humalog, like targets"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":572.471,"endTime":575.174,"body":"like that, that, that were like, I"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":572.471,"endTime":575.174,"body":"don't know that they were really fun."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":575.174,"endTime":577.009,"body":"I didn't know if you'd come"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":575.174,"endTime":577.009,"body":"any across, any new ones that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":577.009,"endTime":577.376,"body":"you could"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":577.476,"endTime":579.979,"body":"you're betraying"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":577.476,"endTime":579.979,"body":"your love of Sonic there, Stephen."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":581.681,"endTime":584.183,"body":"I, I don't see why this"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":581.681,"endTime":584.183,"body":"wouldn't be the headline of Lauren's"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":584.183,"endTime":585.952,"body":"story, but yes, go ahead Lauren."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":585.952,"endTime":586.118,"body":"Tell us."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":586.552,"endTime":587.753,"body":"Oh, I don't know."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":588.688,"endTime":589.989,"body":"Ah, let's see."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":589.989,"endTime":595.828,"body":"We have SEAL1 I really um I really like"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":589.989,"endTime":595.828,"body":"ocean animals, so that's a good one."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":596.295,"endTime":601.634,"body":"Um, there were a few, let,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":596.295,"endTime":601.634,"body":"let's see, Kindlin-1 always"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":601.634,"endTime":603.603,"body":"reminds me of um kindling."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":604.036,"endTime":606.973,"body":"HORMAD1 one just struck as a strange name."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":606.973,"endTime":607.74,"body":"There are, there are a bunch"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":607.84,"endTime":609.041,"body":"Shakespearean there."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":609.241,"endTime":612.511,"body":"yeah, so we'll, we'll"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":609.241,"endTime":612.511,"body":"have um I think we'll have the whole"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":612.511,"endTime":614.447,"body":"list that comes out in this story so you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":614.614,"endTime":617.483,"body":"may, maybe just a sub"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":614.614,"endTime":617.483,"body":"paragraph in your story, then could"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":617.483,"endTime":619.218,"body":"be like your top five, most fun."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":619.685,"endTime":620.62,"body":"Sure, I'll"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":619.685,"endTime":620.62,"body":"do that for you Stephen."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":620.72,"endTime":623.589,"body":"Actually, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":620.72,"endTime":623.589,"body":"we ought to be able to request things."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":623.589,"endTime":626.993,"body":"It's like tell the world of biology when"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":623.589,"endTime":626.993,"body":"there's like, you know, we, we should"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":626.993,"endTime":630.329,"body":"have like a, like if you want us to go to"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":626.993,"endTime":630.329,"body":"Shakespearean, Jeff, like next target's"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":630.63,"endTime":632.231,"body":"off the list we should all vote in."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":632.231,"endTime":634.667,"body":"And then whoever discovers the"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":632.231,"endTime":634.667,"body":"next target should be like,"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":634.667,"endTime":636.302,"body":"you know, Orlando and Hamlin."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":636.969,"endTime":637.937,"body":"I, I totally agree."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":637.937,"endTime":641.507,"body":"There's all these lists, like"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":637.937,"endTime":641.507,"body":"top executives, top companies."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":641.507,"endTime":644.777,"body":"I, I really think BioCentury"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":641.507,"endTime":644.777,"body":"should start a top new target."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":644.777,"endTime":646.479,"body":"Stephen, do you have an all time favorite?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":647.546,"endTime":651.083,"body":"Um, yeah, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":647.546,"endTime":651.083,"body":"like I said, like I just, whatever"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":651.083,"endTime":654.086,"body":"reason the Hedgehog one really, really"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":651.083,"endTime":654.086,"body":"spoke to me, really stuck with me."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":654.153,"endTime":655.054,"body":"So um but"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":655.354,"endTime":656.956,"body":"I, it's not, it's actually"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":655.354,"endTime":656.956,"body":"not a sonic thing."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":656.956,"endTime":659.992,"body":"I just, I have a, I have, I have a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":656.956,"endTime":659.992,"body":"soft spot for the little uh little"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":659.992,"endTime":663.829,"body":"spiky, you know, animals that,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":659.992,"endTime":663.829,"body":"uh, come and steal our cat's food"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":663.829,"endTime":665.231,"body":"when we put the cat food outside."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":665.464,"endTime":665.631,"body":"So."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":666.365,"endTime":668.934,"body":"It's rough in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":666.365,"endTime":668.934,"body":"the U.K. baby, sounds good."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":668.968,"endTime":672.838,"body":"Well, I wanna turn now"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":668.968,"endTime":672.838,"body":"to Pan-RAS inhibition."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":673.005,"endTime":678.31,"body":"It has been producing unprecedented"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":673.005,"endTime":678.31,"body":"survival gains in pancreatic cancer."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":678.644,"endTime":681.981,"body":"As well as other RAS mutant tumors."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":682.281,"endTime":684.917,"body":"Toxicity, major constraints still."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":685.184,"endTime":692.825,"body":"Lauren, you um saw a few companies"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":685.184,"endTime":692.825,"body":"at AACR proposing a solution"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":692.958,"endTime":694.794,"body":"to this systemic toxicity."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":694.794,"endTime":695.361,"body":"What did you find?"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":696.529,"endTime":699.498,"body":"Yes, so I think"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":696.529,"endTime":699.498,"body":"going into AACR this year."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":699.832,"endTime":703.502,"body":"The Revolution Medicine data was"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":699.832,"endTime":703.502,"body":"just sort of on everyone's mind."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":703.502,"endTime":708.541,"body":"So that was what led to this idea to"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":703.502,"endTime":708.541,"body":"look at the different ways that you could"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":708.741,"endTime":712.078,"body":"deliver a Pan-RAS inhibitor and to look"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":708.741,"endTime":712.078,"body":"at the different ways that companies"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":712.078,"endTime":713.612,"body":"are delivering Pan-RAS inhibitors."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":713.879,"endTime":718.35,"body":"Because as you said, the survival"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":713.879,"endTime":718.35,"body":"data were, were really impressive"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":718.35,"endTime":722.221,"body":"for the Revolution Medicine program"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":718.35,"endTime":722.221,"body":"almost doubled the overall survival."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":722.822,"endTime":728.26,"body":"But we do hear about relatively high"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":722.822,"endTime":728.26,"body":"level of skin toxicity and GI toxicity."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":728.761,"endTime":736.302,"body":"And so one of the ways to sort of restrict"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":728.761,"endTime":736.302,"body":"the activity of toxic, or, you know,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":736.335,"endTime":740.973,"body":"more toxic therapies to the tumor site"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":736.335,"endTime":740.973,"body":"is of course an antibody drug conjugate."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":740.973,"endTime":745.478,"body":"So you're using an antibody that's"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":740.973,"endTime":745.478,"body":"conjugated to a payload, usually,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":745.478,"endTime":749.482,"body":"you know, it's cytotoxic chemotherapy"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":745.478,"endTime":749.482,"body":"that's, that's too toxic to deliver"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":749.682,"endTime":751.15,"body":"without that targeting element."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":751.484,"endTime":754.487,"body":"And then targeting it to the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":751.484,"endTime":754.487,"body":"tumor cells through the antibody."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":754.854,"endTime":760.326,"body":"So we've seen a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":754.854,"endTime":760.326,"body":"expansion of the ADC idea into"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":760.626,"endTime":764.196,"body":"targeted therapy payloads instead"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":760.626,"endTime":764.196,"body":"of those general cytotoxics."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":764.463,"endTime":767.566,"body":"And this was an example that,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":764.463,"endTime":767.566,"body":"that we've seen come up is"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":767.566,"endTime":770.636,"body":"Pan-RAS inhibitors as the payload."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":771.036,"endTime":774.573,"body":"This wasn't a big set of abstracts at"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":771.036,"endTime":774.573,"body":"AACR, but it was just an interesting"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":774.573,"endTime":777.076,"body":"idea and seems like a solution to"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":777.543,"endTime":781.68,"body":"a problem for what could become a"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":777.543,"endTime":781.68,"body":"really important class of therapies."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":782.114,"endTime":786.786,"body":"we found four companies, six"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":782.114,"endTime":786.786,"body":"different therapies that are"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":786.919,"endTime":788.354,"body":"delivering a Pan-RAS inhibitor."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":788.788,"endTime":792.458,"body":"Some of those are getting into"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":788.788,"endTime":792.458,"body":"the dual payload idea where you"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":792.458,"endTime":797.096,"body":"would deliver the RAS inhibitor"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":792.458,"endTime":797.096,"body":"with a cytotoxic chemotherapy for"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":797.096,"endTime":800.866,"body":"more efficacy at the tumor and to"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":797.096,"endTime":800.866,"body":"overcome some of the resistance."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":801.2,"endTime":807.339,"body":"Some of those are dual payloads that"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":801.2,"endTime":807.339,"body":"would potentially help get more to"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":807.373,"endTime":811.143,"body":"the, Pancreatic cancer or whatever"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":807.373,"endTime":811.143,"body":"cancer type would potentially"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":811.143,"endTime":812.378,"body":"respond to a RAS inhibitor."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":812.711,"endTime":815.281,"body":"And yeah, I think that's,"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":812.711,"endTime":815.281,"body":"that's just the general idea."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":815.281,"endTime":817.349,"body":"These are in early stages of development."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":817.349,"endTime":821.453,"body":"So it'll be interesting to see how these"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":817.349,"endTime":821.453,"body":"perform in the clinic if they do help"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":821.453,"endTime":825.224,"body":"overcome that toxicity, because we do"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":821.453,"endTime":825.224,"body":"know that ADCs still have some toxic"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":825.224,"endTime":828.36,"body":"issues 'cause you're still delivering"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":825.224,"endTime":828.36,"body":"something that's, pretty toxic."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":828.594,"endTime":831.43,"body":"And it's not perfectly"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":828.594,"endTime":831.43,"body":"released in the tumor site."},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":831.497,"endTime":833.899,"body":"Um, especially with the"},{"speaker":"Lauren Martz","startTime":831.497,"endTime":833.899,"body":"earlier generation linkers."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":834.7,"endTime":835.401,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":835.467,"endTime":839.605,"body":"Uh, well, you can read  Lauren's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":835.467,"endTime":839.605,"body":"story on BioCentury.com."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":839.605,"endTime":842.007,"body":"I'll drop a link into the show notes."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":842.308,"endTime":849.849,"body":"She also took a look at dual payload"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":842.308,"endTime":849.849,"body":"ADCs emerging at the conference,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":850.082,"endTime":852.184,"body":"we published that piece last week."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":852.685,"endTime":857.122,"body":"And uh you can also find a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":852.685,"endTime":857.122,"body":"link to that in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":857.389,"endTime":860.226,"body":"We're gonna take a quick break"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":857.389,"endTime":860.226,"body":"and then we'll be right back."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":860.559,"endTime":863.495,"body":"This episode of BioCentury This"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":860.559,"endTime":863.495,"body":"Week is brought to you by the 3rd"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":863.929,"endTime":865.631,"body":"BioCentury Grand Rounds in Seattle."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":867.333,"endTime":870.069,"body":"Advancing drug development"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":867.333,"endTime":870.069,"body":"requires more than discovery."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":870.302,"endTime":872.137,"body":"It requires the right partners."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":872.538,"endTime":876.642,"body":"The 3rd edition of BioCentury Grand"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":872.538,"endTime":876.642,"body":"Rounds U.S. convenes venture capital,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":876.876,"endTime":881.914,"body":"biopharma decision-makers, and academic"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":876.876,"endTime":881.914,"body":"innovators in Seattle, June 3rd to 5th."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":882.581,"endTime":886.085,"body":"This R\u0026D-focused forum brings"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":882.581,"endTime":886.085,"body":"together leaders at the forefront"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":886.085,"endTime":890.022,"body":"of translational science to examine"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":886.085,"endTime":890.022,"body":"the breakthroughs, bottlenecks and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":890.022,"endTime":894.56,"body":"strategies shaping the future of drug"},{"speaker":"Jeff 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Cranmer","startTime":912.311,"endTime":916.415,"body":"Grand Rounds U.S. is where rigorous"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":912.311,"endTime":916.415,"body":"science meets strategic capital"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":916.715,"endTime":920.219,"body":"and where the right conversations"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":916.715,"endTime":920.219,"body":"move discovery toward development."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":920.786,"endTime":925.891,"body":"Join us in Seattle and discover what's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":920.786,"endTime":925.891,"body":"next in biopharma and who's driving it."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":926.425,"endTime":927.693,"body":"Secure your spot."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":928.36,"endTime":930.496,"body":"Register at BioCenturyGrandRounds.com."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":935.301,"endTime":939.305,"body":"We are back on the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":935.301,"endTime":939.305,"body":"BioCentury this week podcast."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":939.305,"endTime":943.842,"body":"And what do you say, Stephen,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":939.305,"endTime":943.842,"body":"another day, another Eli Lilly deal."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":943.842,"endTime":949.148,"body":"This time buying Ajax Therapeutics"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":943.842,"endTime":949.148,"body":"uh taking a gamble there that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":949.148,"endTime":953.118,"body":"it's not pronounced like the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":949.148,"endTime":953.118,"body":"uh European football side."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":953.519,"endTime":957.823,"body":"JAK2 developer in the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":953.519,"endTime":957.823,"body":"clinic for Myelofibrosis."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":957.856,"endTime":962.895,"body":"Uh, upfront payment is undisclosed"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":957.856,"endTime":962.895,"body":"biobucks crossing 2 billion."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":962.895,"endTime":966.732,"body":"It must be fun to be a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":962.895,"endTime":966.732,"body":"Lilly BD person these days."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":966.732,"endTime":967.733,"body":"Stephen, what do you say?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":968.534,"endTime":970.502,"body":"Well, from the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":968.534,"endTime":970.502,"body":"pronunciation side, I was actually"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":970.502,"endTime":972.104,"body":"thinking about the Iliad Jeff."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":972.304,"endTime":972.671,"body":"Not"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":972.838,"endTime":973.172,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":973.205,"endTime":973.973,"body":"the football club."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":974.139,"endTime":974.707,"body":"But uh"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":975.441,"endTime":975.908,"body":"Greatest,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":975.941,"endTime":978.344,"body":"Are those, is that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":975.941,"endTime":978.344,"body":"the same pronunciation that the same"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":978.344,"endTime":980.346,"body":"pronunciation that IX from the Iliad"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":980.98,"endTime":982.281,"body":"Simone, do you wanna weigh in?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":982.281,"endTime":983.716,"body":"Do you think it's IX or Ajax?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":983.816,"endTime":983.949,"body":"I"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":984.316,"endTime":985.451,"body":"Ajax, all the way."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":985.451,"endTime":986.385,"body":"Ajax all the way."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":986.652,"endTime":990.356,"body":"And as a Brit, I mean, I don't think"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":986.652,"endTime":990.356,"body":"this is only in the U.K. but isn't"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":990.356,"endTime":992.224,"body":"there that like bleach, you know?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":992.624,"endTime":993.892,"body":"Shouldn't they be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":994.159,"endTime":994.56,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":994.66,"endTime":995.26,"body":"Good, good"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":995.327,"endTime":995.661,"body":"Cleaning?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":995.894,"endTime":999.798,"body":"I mean, I feel like now they should pay"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":995.894,"endTime":999.798,"body":"us 'cause we just advertise their product."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":999.898,"endTime":1000.766,"body":"But there you go."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1001.433,"endTime":1004.37,"body":"I was reading a kid's"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1001.433,"endTime":1004.37,"body":"version of the Iliad with my son and I"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1004.37,"endTime":1007.84,"body":"was always pronouncing it IX but maybe"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1004.37,"endTime":1007.84,"body":"I'm just, I've just got that wrong."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1008.073,"endTime":1010.476,"body":"I bet your son"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1008.073,"endTime":1010.476,"body":"just thinks you're, you're tough."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1010.843,"endTime":1011.377,"body":"I, I was,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1011.844,"endTime":1017.116,"body":"I was gonna use a French term for that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1011.844,"endTime":1017.116,"body":"as uh our CEO did on our morning call,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1017.116,"endTime":1023.122,"body":"which inspired me to uh refer to the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1017.116,"endTime":1023.122,"body":"legendary uh 1896 French play Ubu Roi,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1023.622,"endTime":1027.593,"body":"which uh I think was lost on some of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1023.622,"endTime":1027.593,"body":"my colleagues, who would've preferred"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1027.826,"endTime":1030.796,"body":"that I'd make a reference to the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1027.826,"endTime":1030.796,"body":"Philadelphia Eagles, but I will not,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1031.63,"endTime":1032.131,"body":"anyways?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1032.264,"endTime":1035.501,"body":"at this sensitive"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1032.264,"endTime":1035.501,"body":"moment for Stephen, but uh Ajax."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1035.534,"endTime":1035.734,"body":"yes."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1035.834,"endTime":1036.902,"body":"so what I mean, this."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1036.902,"endTime":1039.304,"body":"is like their 12th deal"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1036.902,"endTime":1039.304,"body":"of the year, Stephen."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1039.838,"endTime":1041.907,"body":"It's, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1039.838,"endTime":1041.907,"body":"it's, Lilly's definitely been on"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1041.907,"endTime":1043.042,"body":"a shopping spree, haven't they?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1043.142,"endTime":1047.379,"body":"Um, again, it looks to me that, you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1043.142,"endTime":1047.379,"body":"know, they've been one of the few"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1047.579,"endTime":1052.684,"body":"pharmas that have been happy to go"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1047.579,"endTime":1052.684,"body":"early and to buy stuff in either"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1052.684,"endTime":1054.853,"body":"early clinical or even preclinical."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1054.853,"endTime":1058.557,"body":"I think this  is getting close to"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1054.853,"endTime":1058.557,"body":"entering the clinic, but I don't think"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1058.557,"endTime":1059.758,"body":"they actually have any clinical data yet."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1059.758,"endTime":1064.997,"body":"So, so here Ajax has a uh they call a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1059.758,"endTime":1064.997,"body":"type two confirmation, JAK2 inhibitor."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1064.997,"endTime":1069.568,"body":"So the idea being that all"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1064.997,"endTime":1069.568,"body":"of the JAK2s that are already"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1069.568,"endTime":1074.206,"body":"approved for myelofibrosis"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1069.568,"endTime":1074.206,"body":"are type one JAK2 inhibitors."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1074.206,"endTime":1076.008,"body":"And so the idea here is that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1074.206,"endTime":1076.008,"body":"you might be able to get around."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1076.742,"endTime":1080.779,"body":"some of the resistance or failed"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1076.742,"endTime":1080.779,"body":"responses to the existing treatments"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1080.779,"endTime":1082.181,"body":"by hitting this other confirmation."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1082.181,"endTime":1084.45,"body":"So you know, I think it's good for Lilly."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1084.45,"endTime":1089.088,"body":"I mean, they essentially are a ATM"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1084.45,"endTime":1089.088,"body":"now that's just throwing off cash"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1089.088,"endTime":1093.258,"body":"and so they are trying to diversify"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1089.088,"endTime":1093.258,"body":"and bring in, you know, new assets"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1093.258,"endTime":1094.793,"body":"that can build up the pipeline."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1094.793,"endTime":1097.563,"body":"And so uh good for them, like you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1094.793,"endTime":1097.563,"body":"say, it must be nice to have that job."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1098.63,"endTime":1098.964,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1098.997,"endTime":1101.5,"body":"have a few"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1098.997,"endTime":1101.5,"body":"things to weigh in here, Stephen."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1101.5,"endTime":1104.57,"body":"First of all, yeah, if I had that"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1101.5,"endTime":1104.57,"body":"money, I'd also go early and often."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1104.57,"endTime":1104.937,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1106.171,"endTime":1106.839,"body":"There you go."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1106.839,"endTime":1110.209,"body":"Now I did wanna ask you something"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1106.839,"endTime":1110.209,"body":"because we, you know, Jeff, you"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1110.209,"endTime":1111.343,"body":"opened this with another Monday."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1112.111,"endTime":1113.479,"body":"Another deal by Lilly."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1113.512,"endTime":1118.016,"body":"You know, and there's certainly a lot of"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1113.512,"endTime":1118.016,"body":"chatter about the deal and M\u0026A volume."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1118.016,"endTime":1119.184,"body":"We've done some of that."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1119.718,"endTime":1121.22,"body":"The two or three things here, Stephen."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1121.22,"endTime":1125.257,"body":"So you know, there are a lot of people who"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1121.22,"endTime":1125.257,"body":"are like, well, if you had, if the pace"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1125.257,"endTime":1130.162,"body":"carries on, then this will obviously be"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1125.257,"endTime":1130.162,"body":"one of the greatest all time ever for M\u0026A."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1130.829,"endTime":1136.502,"body":"But people don't make deals normally"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1130.829,"endTime":1136.502,"body":"sort of, at a specific pace throughout"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1136.502,"endTime":1141.106,"body":"the year, like, I don't know whether"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1136.502,"endTime":1141.106,"body":"it's reasonable to um extrapolate and"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1141.106,"endTime":1143.408,"body":"just to multiply by four, like Q1 deals."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1143.775,"endTime":1144.51,"body":"So that's one thing."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1144.51,"endTime":1148.981,"body":"I wanted to know what your thoughts are"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1144.51,"endTime":1148.981,"body":"about If there's anything about this pace"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1148.981,"endTime":1153.285,"body":"in this time of year and what expectations"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1148.981,"endTime":1153.285,"body":"are regarding whether it continues, but"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1153.285,"endTime":1155.821,"body":"the other relates to this Lilly emphasis."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1156.088,"endTime":1159.124,"body":"I do wonder, you know, how"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1156.088,"endTime":1159.124,"body":"much Lilly is specifically"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1159.124,"endTime":1160.959,"body":"responsible for this, uh, driver."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1160.959,"endTime":1164.596,"body":"I don't know if we've got that kind of"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1160.959,"endTime":1164.596,"body":"information yet or analysis yet Stephen?,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1164.696,"endTime":1165.364,"body":"Not yet."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1165.364,"endTime":1168.8,"body":"I haven't actually gone back to"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1165.364,"endTime":1168.8,"body":"look through, you know, how much of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1168.8,"endTime":1170.169,"body":"the deals that they've been doing."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1170.169,"endTime":1173.672,"body":"I just know that I'm seeing"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1170.169,"endTime":1173.672,"body":"them very frequently uh so far"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1173.772,"endTime":1174.74,"body":"towards the start of this year."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1174.74,"endTime":1177.643,"body":"And you know, just with reference"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1174.74,"endTime":1177.643,"body":"to your, to your prior question as"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1177.643,"endTime":1179.278,"body":"well about sort of the pace of deals."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1179.645,"endTime":1183.682,"body":"I agree with you that I think it's that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1179.645,"endTime":1183.682,"body":"you can't really take, a three month, four"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1183.682,"endTime":1186.852,"body":"month window and just say, oh, well, you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1183.682,"endTime":1186.852,"body":"know, multiply by three or four and that's"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1186.852,"endTime":1187.786,"body":"how much we're gonna have this year."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1187.786,"endTime":1188.754,"body":"I don't think it works like that."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1188.754,"endTime":1191.49,"body":"There's very, very much"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1188.754,"endTime":1191.49,"body":"an ebb and flow to this."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1192.191,"endTime":1197.496,"body":"I do think more generally there's"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1192.191,"endTime":1197.496,"body":"an expectation that M\u0026A will be"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1197.496,"endTime":1200.432,"body":"a consistent theme for the year."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1200.832,"endTime":1203.535,"body":"Whether we hit an all time number."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1203.535,"endTime":1207.272,"body":"I mean, obviously it depends on what"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1203.535,"endTime":1207.272,"body":"metric you're using, whether you're"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1207.272,"endTime":1212.344,"body":"using number of deals or amount"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1207.272,"endTime":1212.344,"body":"of, you know, money spent on M\u0026A."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1212.911,"endTime":1215.681,"body":"If you're doing by amount of money,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1212.911,"endTime":1215.681,"body":"then you probably will have to"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1215.681,"endTime":1219.785,"body":"have some sort of mega merger to"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1215.681,"endTime":1219.785,"body":"try and tip the scales, you know?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1219.885,"endTime":1222.321,"body":"But I don't foresee that happening."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1223.188,"endTime":1224.089,"body":"In general."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1224.089,"endTime":1228.026,"body":"I, I, I think it will keep up, but  I"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1224.089,"endTime":1228.026,"body":"don't see a reason as to think that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1228.227,"endTime":1233.398,"body":"this will be some, you know, mega"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1228.227,"endTime":1233.398,"body":"M\u0026A year where people are having to"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1233.699,"endTime":1235.901,"body":"buy stuff for some unforeseen reason."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1236.535,"endTime":1236.668,"body":"so."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1236.668,"endTime":1240.272,"body":"let me ask you, a different question"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1236.668,"endTime":1240.272,"body":"then from this, You know, this is"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1240.272,"endTime":1245.077,"body":"going to recycle a lot of capital back"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1240.272,"endTime":1245.077,"body":"into the system, I'm assuming, right?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1245.41,"endTime":1248.08,"body":"And so, what does that mean?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1248.08,"endTime":1250.182,"body":"You know, do you think we'll"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1248.08,"endTime":1250.182,"body":"look back on this year, like"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1250.182,"endTime":1251.85,"body":"where is that capital gonna go?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1251.85,"endTime":1254.386,"body":"How are we gonna see the benefits of this?"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1254.386,"endTime":1258.724,"body":"It feels to me like we went through,"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1254.386,"endTime":1258.724,"body":"okay, so there's a pandemic, boom."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1258.724,"endTime":1262.761,"body":"Then we went through a long"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1258.724,"endTime":1262.761,"body":"and brutal, you know uh winter,"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1262.761,"endTime":1264.363,"body":"let's say biotech, winter."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1264.763,"endTime":1267.866,"body":"The companies that survived, some"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1264.763,"endTime":1267.866,"body":"of them managed to move things"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1267.866,"endTime":1271.036,"body":"along, and now maybe some of"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1267.866,"endTime":1271.036,"body":"those are reaping the rewards with"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1271.036,"endTime":1273.138,"body":"these you know, exits or sales."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1273.472,"endTime":1276.241,"body":"That money is now getting"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1273.472,"endTime":1276.241,"body":"recycled back, I hope."},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1276.675,"endTime":1279.077,"body":"What, what are your views on"},{"speaker":"Simone Fishburn","startTime":1276.675,"endTime":1279.077,"body":"what this means going forward?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1279.778,"endTime":1282.648,"body":"Well, what, what I think"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1279.778,"endTime":1282.648,"body":"is sort of interesting now, what we're"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1282.648,"endTime":1287.219,"body":"seeing sort of in the last, sort of this"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1282.648,"endTime":1287.219,"body":"year versus maybe what we saw last year"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1287.586,"endTime":1293.258,"body":"is I think there's actually a good mix of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1287.586,"endTime":1293.258,"body":"both private and public takeouts, which is"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1293.292,"endTime":1294.993,"body":"good for both sides of that ledger then."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1294.993,"endTime":1295.193,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1295.193,"endTime":1298.764,"body":"Because most times, you know, if it's"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1295.193,"endTime":1298.764,"body":"just public companies being taken out,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1299.364,"endTime":1302.768,"body":"oftentimes VCs have already gotten"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1299.364,"endTime":1302.768,"body":"out by, you know, the time they're"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1302.768,"endTime":1305.003,"body":"being taken out, unless for some"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1302.768,"endTime":1305.003,"body":"reason they've held onto a stake."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1305.003,"endTime":1308.607,"body":"But usually they're out, within a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1305.003,"endTime":1308.607,"body":"year or so after a company's public."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1308.607,"endTime":1311.576,"body":"And so they're not really"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1308.607,"endTime":1311.576,"body":"seeing any of the benefits."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1311.643,"endTime":1315.38,"body":"You know, they saw the benefit of the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1311.643,"endTime":1315.38,"body":"IPO assuming that the IPO, did okay."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1315.914,"endTime":1320.052,"body":"But I think what's nice here is that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1315.914,"endTime":1320.052,"body":"you're getting quick returns for both"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1320.052,"endTime":1324.389,"body":"VCs and then you're also getting capital"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1320.052,"endTime":1324.389,"body":"flowing back into the public specialist"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1324.389,"endTime":1328.727,"body":"funds, which then will immediately be"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1324.389,"endTime":1328.727,"body":"recycled back into new companies, right?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1328.727,"endTime":1331.129,"body":"They'll be looking for new names"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1328.727,"endTime":1331.129,"body":"to invest that capital into."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1331.53,"endTime":1334.833,"body":"So I think it's good for both sides,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1331.53,"endTime":1334.833,"body":"for both the early and the later"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1334.833,"endTime":1339.271,"body":"stage biotechs in that  this you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1334.833,"endTime":1339.271,"body":"know, helps the VCs get a better track"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1339.271,"endTime":1342.24,"body":"record, get better returns, which then"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1339.271,"endTime":1342.24,"body":"allows 'em to raise their next fund."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1342.24,"endTime":1346.545,"body":"And so it kind of keeps that capital"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1342.24,"endTime":1346.545,"body":"cycle chugging along, I think."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1346.545,"endTime":1348.68,"body":"And so that's, that's what I"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1346.545,"endTime":1348.68,"body":"think is quite good about uh"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1348.714,"endTime":1349.381,"body":"kinda what we're seeing right now."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1350.482,"endTime":1352.751,"body":"All right, and a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1350.482,"endTime":1352.751,"body":"couple of other deals out today."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1352.951,"endTime":1360.125,"body":"the biggest India's Sun Pharmaceuticals"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1352.951,"endTime":1360.125,"body":"is buying Organon a spin out of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1360.125,"endTime":1363.562,"body":"Merck, for about $12 billion."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1363.829,"endTime":1367.899,"body":"Organon uh obviously a global"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1363.829,"endTime":1367.899,"body":"leader in women's health."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1367.966,"endTime":1375.073,"body":"Company has a broad portfolio of 70"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1367.966,"endTime":1375.073,"body":"products and it's in about 140 countries."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1375.073,"endTime":1377.743,"body":"It's also a very big biosimilars player."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1378.31,"endTime":1384.75,"body":"This deal according to Sun, makes it a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1378.31,"endTime":1384.75,"body":"top 25 global pharma, and it also makes"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1384.75,"endTime":1388.42,"body":"it a top 10 global biosimilars company."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1388.82,"endTime":1395.827,"body":"Among other deals we had two companies"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1388.82,"endTime":1395.827,"body":"who are uh actually older than BioCentury."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1395.827,"endTime":1400.932,"body":"No small thing, given that we're"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1395.827,"endTime":1400.932,"body":"now over 30 years old, Ligand buying"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1401.233,"endTime":1404.436,"body":"Xoma couple of royalty plays there."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1404.436,"endTime":1407.839,"body":"It's about a $700 million deal."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1408.306,"endTime":1415.447,"body":"And  BeOne, the company formerly known"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1408.306,"endTime":1415.447,"body":"as BeiGene, is taking an option to a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1415.714,"endTime":1425.39,"body":"trispecific PD-1, CTLA-4, VEGF-A molecule"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1415.714,"endTime":1425.39,"body":"from Chinese player Huawei that will"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1425.39,"endTime":1432.831,"body":"result if selected in a hundred million"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1425.39,"endTime":1432.831,"body":"dollars exercise and oodles of milestones."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1433.231,"endTime":1436.334,"body":"Alright, Stephen uh you're"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1433.231,"endTime":1436.334,"body":"just back from London."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1436.568,"endTime":1438.403,"body":"I know you were on a panel down there."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1438.703,"endTime":1440.672,"body":"one of the things you were"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1438.703,"endTime":1440.672,"body":"talking about is state of."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1441.173,"endTime":1443.208,"body":"venture fundraising."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1443.475,"endTime":1450.015,"body":"this comes as Kurma which is a very"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1443.475,"endTime":1450.015,"body":"active biotech venture investor,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1450.215,"endTime":1452.317,"body":"has just raised a new fund."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1452.617,"endTime":1453.552,"body":"What do you think, Stephen?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1454.319,"endTime":1456.655,"body":"I want to get the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1454.319,"endTime":1456.655,"body":"good news all up front, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1456.655,"endTime":1457.689,"body":"and be, be very upfront about it."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1457.689,"endTime":1458.59,"body":"So this was great."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1458.79,"endTime":1460.091,"body":"This was great for Kurma."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1460.258,"endTime":1462.794,"body":"This is their fourth"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1460.258,"endTime":1462.794,"body":"fund that they've raised."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1463.061,"endTime":1465.363,"body":"Their early stage fund,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1463.061,"endTime":1465.363,"body":"kind of their flagship fund."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1465.697,"endTime":1469.401,"body":"so they announced last week they"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1465.697,"endTime":1469.401,"body":"raised 215 million euros which is"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1469.401,"endTime":1472.704,"body":"about 35% bigger than their prior fund."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1472.771,"endTime":1476.608,"body":"So it's great to see them raising a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1472.771,"endTime":1476.608,"body":"new fund, raising a bigger fund so"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1476.608,"endTime":1479.611,"body":"they can do more company creation,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1476.608,"endTime":1479.611,"body":"more early stage investments."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1479.845,"endTime":1483.615,"body":"Good news for European biotechs,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1479.845,"endTime":1483.615,"body":"'cause they focus I think about 80%"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1483.615,"endTime":1487.319,"body":"of their capital is, is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1483.615,"endTime":1487.319,"body":"targeted at European investments."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1487.586,"endTime":1489.488,"body":"But I just thought it was"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1487.586,"endTime":1489.488,"body":"interesting that sort of in the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1489.488,"endTime":1491.656,"body":"context, so I was chairing a panel."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1491.69,"endTime":1494.893,"body":"I was an investment panel at"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1491.69,"endTime":1494.893,"body":"the Anglonordic conference"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1494.893,"endTime":1495.961,"body":"in London last week."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1496.428,"endTime":1499.965,"body":"And one of the topics of discussion"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1496.428,"endTime":1499.965,"body":"was about this observation that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1499.965,"endTime":1503.702,"body":"some of the investors made that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1499.965,"endTime":1503.702,"body":"there had been this shift towards."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1504.002,"endTime":1508.306,"body":"VCs basically shifting towards putting"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1504.002,"endTime":1508.306,"body":"their money into clinical companies"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1508.306,"endTime":1512.31,"body":"and clinical candidates that they don't"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1508.306,"endTime":1512.31,"body":"want to invest in preclinical companies."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1512.777,"endTime":1516.448,"body":"And one of the questions raised was,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1512.777,"endTime":1516.448,"body":"oh, is this a, you know, who's left to"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1516.448,"endTime":1520.051,"body":"invest in early stage companies then"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1516.448,"endTime":1520.051,"body":"if everyone's investing in the clinic?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1520.585,"endTime":1524.055,"body":"And so we had this discussion about,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1520.585,"endTime":1524.055,"body":"what were the drivers of that?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1524.055,"endTime":1528.026,"body":"And you know, one of the things"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1524.055,"endTime":1528.026,"body":"that was raised was, LPs, you know,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1528.026,"endTime":1530.862,"body":"when they're looking at funds, in"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1528.026,"endTime":1530.862,"body":"this sort of a markets, in this"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1530.862,"endTime":1534.065,"body":"market sort of environment, they"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1530.862,"endTime":1534.065,"body":"want to have shorter hold times."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1534.432,"endTime":1537.469,"body":"Meaning that you need to have, basically"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1534.432,"endTime":1537.469,"body":"you have to invest in a clinical"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1537.469,"endTime":1541.606,"body":"company because that's closer to where"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1537.469,"endTime":1541.606,"body":"your exit potentially is because you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1541.606,"endTime":1544.776,"body":"probably need to be in the clinic right"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1541.606,"endTime":1544.776,"body":"now if you're gonna do an IPO and you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1544.776,"endTime":1548.046,"body":"probably need to have clinical data if"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1544.776,"endTime":1548.046,"body":"you're gonna get acquired by a pharma."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1548.513,"endTime":1552.617,"body":"And you know, if you look at our"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1548.513,"endTime":1552.617,"body":"data, our data very much point to M\u0026A."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1553.184,"endTime":1556.421,"body":"I think that when I was looking up"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1553.184,"endTime":1556.421,"body":"over the past five years for M\u0026A,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1556.421,"endTime":1560.892,"body":"just for private biopharmas only about"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1556.421,"endTime":1560.892,"body":"13% of those deals were preclinical."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1561.059,"endTime":1563.562,"body":"So the vast majority are"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1561.059,"endTime":1563.562,"body":"clinical stage or later."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1563.929,"endTime":1567.098,"body":"The point they were just making, was"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1563.929,"endTime":1567.098,"body":"that, can be a bit tougher to build a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1567.098,"endTime":1571.369,"body":"syndicate now, and it's a bit tougher to"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1567.098,"endTime":1571.369,"body":"raise a, an early stage fund because you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1571.369,"endTime":1572.938,"body":"just have all these dynamics at play."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1573.171,"endTime":1578.476,"body":"And the Kurma deal seems to kind of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1573.171,"endTime":1578.476,"body":"be a, it's a current example of those"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1578.476,"endTime":1579.945,"body":"dynamics and, and how they happen."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1579.945,"endTime":1584.416,"body":"So in speaking to the team at Kurma, one"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1579.945,"endTime":1584.416,"body":"of the points they made was, yeah, we"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1584.416,"endTime":1587.452,"body":"were super happy, you know, this is a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1584.416,"endTime":1587.452,"body":"good size fund for what we want to do."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1587.786,"endTime":1591.089,"body":"But what we found during that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1587.786,"endTime":1591.089,"body":"fundraising process was, this is"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1591.089,"endTime":1595.427,"body":"an easy sell to strategics, to"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1591.089,"endTime":1595.427,"body":"corporates, to specialist funds."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1595.76,"endTime":1599.264,"body":"You know, that have a, a solid interest"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1595.76,"endTime":1599.264,"body":"in, in, in the biopharma space."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1599.264,"endTime":1603.735,"body":"But it was a hard sell to a generalist"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1599.264,"endTime":1603.735,"body":"institutional investor that are"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1603.735,"endTime":1607.205,"body":"looking to bring as an LP, like, just"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1603.735,"endTime":1607.205,"body":"because there are all these other"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1607.205,"endTime":1608.707,"body":"funds that are doing clinical stuff."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1608.707,"endTime":1611.676,"body":"And so even if they were gonna"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1608.707,"endTime":1611.676,"body":"look for exposure and healthcare,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1611.81,"endTime":1614.846,"body":"there are other places where they"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1611.81,"endTime":1614.846,"body":"thought they could more quickly get"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1614.846,"endTime":1617.082,"body":"a return than in an early stage fund."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1617.082,"endTime":1619.05,"body":"So they said that was, that was hard."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1619.384,"endTime":1623.088,"body":"And Kurma had targeted,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1619.384,"endTime":1623.088,"body":"raising 250 million euros."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1623.221,"endTime":1624.789,"body":"And so they actually"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1623.221,"endTime":1624.789,"body":"didn't get to their target."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1624.823,"endTime":1628.293,"body":"Again, still raised a good size"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1624.823,"endTime":1628.293,"body":"fund, but it wasn't as much as"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1628.293,"endTime":1629.661,"body":"they were, they were hoping for."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1629.661,"endTime":1634.833,"body":"So to me it just was sort of like, I"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1629.661,"endTime":1634.833,"body":"guess an example of how the dynamics"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1634.833,"endTime":1638.87,"body":"are kind of playing out in this early"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1634.833,"endTime":1638.87,"body":"stage, you know, fundraising setting."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1639.671,"endTime":1641.206,"body":"Yeah, in interesting stuff."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1641.206,"endTime":1645.243,"body":"Stephen, looking forward to your"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1641.206,"endTime":1645.243,"body":"piece on what Kurma is up to."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1645.543,"endTime":1647.345,"body":"we'll have that out for you this week."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1648.113,"endTime":1649.581,"body":"Emerging company profiles."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1649.581,"endTime":1654.886,"body":"This is a series that we've been running"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1649.581,"endTime":1654.886,"body":"for many, many years now where we take"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1655.053,"endTime":1661.559,"body":"a look at a private recently launched"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1655.053,"endTime":1661.559,"body":"company working in an innovative space"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1661.826,"endTime":1663.561,"body":"the latest installment."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1663.928,"endTime":1665.597,"body":"Stephen who did you pick to write about?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1666.264,"endTime":1666.531,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1666.531,"endTime":1670.702,"body":"So so my most recent one was"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1666.531,"endTime":1670.702,"body":"about company a Elevara Medicines"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1670.735,"endTime":1675.44,"body":"Limited based here in the U.K. in"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1670.735,"endTime":1675.44,"body":"London, led by CEO Emma Tinsley."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1675.607,"endTime":1678.51,"body":"Who I believe will be potentially"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1675.607,"endTime":1678.51,"body":"presenting at one of our Grand"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1678.51,"endTime":1680.211,"body":"Rounds conferences coming up."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1680.545,"endTime":1685.183,"body":"And I, yeah, so,  So they are"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1680.545,"endTime":1685.183,"body":"uh they're actually a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1685.183,"endTime":1686.751,"body":"kind of fit this new co model."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1686.885,"endTime":1690.889,"body":"they in-licensed their program"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1686.885,"endTime":1690.889,"body":"from Teijin Pharma in Japan."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1691.156,"endTime":1695.427,"body":"And got a pretty good syndicate Forbion"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1691.156,"endTime":1695.427,"body":"Sofinnova Partners, Monograph Capital,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1695.427,"endTime":1699.564,"body":"I think, was the founding investor that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1695.427,"endTime":1699.564,"body":"put in 70 million into a series A round."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1699.597,"endTime":1702.801,"body":"And so this is a a target that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1699.597,"endTime":1702.801,"body":"probably most people will be familiar"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1702.801,"endTime":1704.469,"body":"with, but as a, as a cancer target."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1704.469,"endTime":1704.502,"body":"CDK4/6."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1706.171,"endTime":1710.542,"body":"Which is used as a cell cycle regulator"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1706.171,"endTime":1710.542,"body":"in breast cancer, but they're actually"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1710.542,"endTime":1712.911,"body":"developing this for rheumatoid arthritis."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1713.178,"endTime":1714.946,"body":"And so I found that quite intriguing."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1714.946,"endTime":1720.452,"body":"And essentially the um what they found"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1714.946,"endTime":1720.452,"body":"is that  CDK4/6 inhibitors while not only"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1720.452,"endTime":1726.624,"body":"having the effect in cancer, they also"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1720.452,"endTime":1726.624,"body":"are able to basically stop signaling for"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1726.958,"endTime":1732.63,"body":"synovial sites in joints, which are one"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1726.958,"endTime":1732.63,"body":"of the drivers of joint damage in RA."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1732.697,"endTime":1736.968,"body":"So it's sort of a non-immune"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1732.697,"endTime":1736.968,"body":"cell mediated mechanism."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1737.335,"endTime":1741.306,"body":"Basically they've got a wider therapeutic,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1737.335,"endTime":1741.306,"body":"they think they have a wider therapeutic"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1741.306,"endTime":1746.111,"body":"window than the marketed CDK4/6 inhibitors"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1741.306,"endTime":1746.111,"body":"used for cancer, which is why they"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1746.111,"endTime":1747.912,"body":"think that they can make it work here."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1748.346,"endTime":1751.783,"body":"And so they've basically gonna be"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1748.346,"endTime":1751.783,"body":"running a Phase IIB study to try and test"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1751.783,"endTime":1755.62,"body":"that hypothesis and see if they've got"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1751.783,"endTime":1755.62,"body":"something that can be sort of orthogonal"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1755.653,"endTime":1760.725,"body":"to sort of the TNFs that are sort of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1755.653,"endTime":1760.725,"body":"the primarily ones used uh in, in RA."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1760.959,"endTime":1762.761,"body":"So I think it's an"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1760.959,"endTime":1762.761,"body":"interesting, interesting story."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1763.394,"endTime":1763.995,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1763.995,"endTime":1767.599,"body":"Thank you for that,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1763.995,"endTime":1767.599,"body":"Stephen, it's good piece."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1767.599,"endTime":1771.102,"body":"and, and certainly good"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1767.599,"endTime":1771.102,"body":"news for RA patients."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1771.136,"endTime":1773.872,"body":"If this makes it to the finish line."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1774.205,"endTime":1776.307,"body":"Well that's it for our show this week."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1776.641,"endTime":1777.876,"body":"Thank you for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1777.876,"endTime":1781.913,"body":"Thank you to Kendall Square"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1777.876,"endTime":1781.913,"body":"Orchestra for making the music"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1782.147,"endTime":1784.816,"body":"for both of BioCentury's podcast."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1784.816,"endTime":1790.255,"body":"We'll have our sister podcast later"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1784.816,"endTime":1790.255,"body":"this week with the CEO of Syncona, Chris"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1790.421,"endTime":1793.758,"body":"Hollowood in conversation with Simone."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1794.025,"endTime":1798.363,"body":"Chris always interested to hear from,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1794.025,"endTime":1798.363,"body":"especially on the eve of Bio€quity Europe."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1798.596,"endTime":1804.402,"body":"Until next week I'm Jeff Cranmer, host"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1798.596,"endTime":1804.402,"body":"of the BioCentury This Week podcast."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1804.402,"endTime":1806.304,"body":"We'll catch you next week."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1807.705,"endTime":1811.075,"body":"BioCentury would like"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1807.705,"endTime":1811.075,"body":"to thank IQVIA Biotech for supporting"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1811.075,"endTime":1813.178,"body":"the BioCentury This Week podcast."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1813.678,"endTime":1816.748,"body":"To learn more about how IQVIA"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1813.678,"endTime":1816.748,"body":"Biotech’s dedicated teams deliver"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1816.748,"endTime":1820.552,"body":"support from innovation to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1816.748,"endTime":1820.552,"body":"impact, visit IQVIABiotech.com"}]}