{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":3.003,"body":"[Autogenerated Transcript]"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":3.003,"endTime":6.039,"body":"BioCentury This Week"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":3.003,"endTime":6.039,"body":"is brought to you by Jeito Capital,"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":6.373,"endTime":9.676,"body":"a leading global independent private"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":6.373,"endTime":9.676,"body":"equity fund with a patient-benefit"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":10.143,"endTime":14.18,"body":"driven approach, aimed at financing,"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":10.143,"endTime":14.18,"body":"and accelerating the development of"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":14.18,"endTime":15.915,"body":"ground-breaking medical innovation."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":16.249,"endTime":19.352,"body":"Jeito’s unique investment strategy"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":16.249,"endTime":19.352,"body":"combines significant capital and"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":19.486,"endTime":22.522,"body":"collective expertise to support"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":19.486,"endTime":22.522,"body":"biopharma companies and their"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":22.522,"endTime":26.359,"body":"management teams-ranging from clinical"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":22.522,"endTime":26.359,"body":"development to market access for"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":26.393,"endTime":30.764,"body":"cutting-edge innovations—with one main"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":26.393,"endTime":30.764,"body":"objective: go faster for the patient."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":31.097,"endTime":31.998,"body":"Learn more at jeito.life"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":39.506,"endTime":45.945,"body":"Changes at the top at FDA,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":39.506,"endTime":45.945,"body":"who's out, who's in, and what's next?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":46.346,"endTime":54.454,"body":"We'll take a look at the drug regulator on"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":46.346,"endTime":54.454,"body":"this week's BioCentury This Week podcast."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":54.921,"endTime":58.992,"body":"Plus, obesity targets, biotech IPOs."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":58.992,"endTime":63.93,"body":"We'll check in on both, and then we'll"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":58.992,"endTime":63.93,"body":"dig deep into the degrader-antibody"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":65.165,"endTime":71.237,"body":"conjugates, which appear to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":65.165,"endTime":71.237,"body":"have moved past a rocky debut."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":71.604,"endTime":76.242,"body":"I'm Jeff Cranmer, host of the BioCentury"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":71.604,"endTime":76.242,"body":"This Week podcast, and joining me to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":76.242,"endTime":78.611,"body":"discuss all of this are my colleagues."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":79.379,"endTime":80.647,"body":"Selina"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":79.379,"endTime":80.647,"body":"Koch, Executive Editor."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":81.047,"endTime":82.816,"body":"Steve"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":81.047,"endTime":82.816,"body":"Usdin, Washington Editor"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":83.45,"endTime":85.452,"body":"Stephen Hansen,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":83.45,"endTime":85.452,"body":"Director of Biopharma Intelligence"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":85.785,"endTime":88.521,"body":"And Danielle"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":85.785,"endTime":88.521,"body":"Golovin, Senior Biopharma Analyst"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":89.222,"endTime":93.159,"body":"Okay uh before we"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":89.222,"endTime":93.159,"body":"turn to FDA, we are a few weeks"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":93.159,"endTime":96.296,"body":"away from BioCentury Grand Rounds."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":96.296,"endTime":101.401,"body":"It's the third installment of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":96.296,"endTime":101.401,"body":"our Conference that looks at"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":101.534,"endTime":106.806,"body":"solving translational bottlenecks,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":101.534,"endTime":106.806,"body":"bringing together VCs, academia,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":106.806,"endTime":109.209,"body":"and early stage biotechs."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":109.576,"endTime":117.083,"body":"we will be in Seattle,  and we have"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":109.576,"endTime":117.083,"body":"a few slots left for academics,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":117.283,"endTime":121.154,"body":"biotechs who would like to present"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":117.283,"endTime":121.154,"body":"posters on what they're working on,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":121.488,"endTime":126.759,"body":"or to take the stage as a presenting"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":121.488,"endTime":126.759,"body":"company and tell your story on stage,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":127.093,"endTime":129.562,"body":"and we also have some delegate slots."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":129.829,"endTime":133.9,"body":"if you're a podcast fan and you're"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":129.829,"endTime":133.9,"body":"hearing this and you wanna go to Grand"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":133.9,"endTime":139.439,"body":"Rounds, if you're up in Vancouver"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":133.9,"endTime":139.439,"body":"or Victoria,  or if you just happen"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":139.439,"endTime":143.81,"body":"to be in Seattle or Portland it's"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":139.439,"endTime":143.81,"body":"a quick hop over to get there."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":144.077,"endTime":149.215,"body":"And you can mention that you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":144.077,"endTime":149.215,"body":"want the podcast discount code."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":149.482,"endTime":153.887,"body":"Send a note to me via LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":149.482,"endTime":153.887,"body":"or to our conferences email,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":153.887,"endTime":156.122,"body":"conferences@biocentury.com."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":157.891,"endTime":158.925,"body":"A secret code."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":159.526,"endTime":160.827,"body":"Secret code, Steve."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":161.127,"endTime":161.895,"body":"You should let"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":161.127,"endTime":161.895,"body":"Steve make up the secret code, I'm"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":161.895,"endTime":162.996,"body":"sure he'll have some good ideas."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":164.497,"endTime":166.432,"body":"I think"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":164.497,"endTime":166.432,"body":"that's a good idea, Steve."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":166.933,"endTime":167.333,"body":"All right."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":167.333,"endTime":173.273,"body":"Well uh the code is secret, but you'll"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":167.333,"endTime":173.273,"body":"know it once you email us to get."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":173.606,"endTime":175.842,"body":"Steve well, that didn't take long."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":175.842,"endTime":180.446,"body":"Last week on the podcast, we were talking"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":175.842,"endTime":180.446,"body":"about President Trump's displeasure"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":180.446,"endTime":185.051,"body":"with Marty Makary, and that it seemed"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":180.446,"endTime":185.051,"body":"that he was uh going to be out the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":185.051,"endTime":190.323,"body":"door, and uh now he is out the door,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":185.051,"endTime":190.323,"body":"and uh quite a few other people."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":190.557,"endTime":191.324,"body":"Bring us up to speed"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":192.058,"endTime":192.559,"body":"So yeah."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":192.559,"endTime":195.662,"body":"So as everybody knows"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":192.559,"endTime":195.662,"body":"Makary has left FDA."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":196.262,"endTime":199.632,"body":"You know, putting euphemisms"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":196.262,"endTime":199.632,"body":"aside, he was fired."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":199.899,"endTime":203.736,"body":"As I wrote last Friday, very few"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":199.899,"endTime":203.736,"body":"people are gonna mourn his exit."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":204.204,"endTime":208.074,"body":"The difficult task now is to"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":204.204,"endTime":208.074,"body":"help FDA recover from one of the"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":208.074,"endTime":211.978,"body":"shortest, most chaotic, and most"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":208.074,"endTime":211.978,"body":"corrosive tenures in its history."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":212.412,"endTime":216.382,"body":"Rebuilding staff morale, restoring"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":212.412,"endTime":216.382,"body":"scientific authority, and purging"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":216.382,"endTime":219.986,"body":"ideology and politics from"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":216.382,"endTime":219.986,"body":"regulatory decision-making have"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":219.986,"endTime":221.588,"body":"to be the top priorities, right?"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":222.055,"endTime":225.792,"body":"Chris Klomp who's effectively"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":222.055,"endTime":225.792,"body":"running HHS on a day-to-day basis,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":226.125,"endTime":227.794,"body":"engineered, you know, a clean sweep."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":227.794,"endTime":231.831,"body":"He installed Kyle  Diamantas, who"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":227.794,"endTime":231.831,"body":"was acting deputy commissioner"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":231.831,"endTime":234.1,"body":"for food, as acting commissioner."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":234.434,"endTime":237.136,"body":"We can talk about Diamantas"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":234.434,"endTime":237.136,"body":"and who's likely to become"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":237.136,"endTime":238.471,"body":"commissioner later if you want."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":238.871,"endTime":242.709,"body":"Out as acting CDER director,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":238.871,"endTime":242.709,"body":"Tracy Beth Høeg, another one who"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":242.709,"endTime":244.477,"body":"I'd say few people will miss."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":245.011,"endTime":248.081,"body":"Her replacement, Greg"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":245.011,"endTime":248.081,"body":"Davis, he's an FDA veteran."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":248.481,"endTime":253.319,"body":"He served as clinical team leader at"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":248.481,"endTime":253.319,"body":"CDER from 2016 to 2022, then he was"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":253.319,"endTime":257.156,"body":"CMO of a nonprofit that was developing"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":253.319,"endTime":257.156,"body":"psychedelics for mental health."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":257.523,"endTime":261.127,"body":"He returned to FDA in 2025"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":257.523,"endTime":261.127,"body":"as CDER's deputy director."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":261.728,"endTime":265.632,"body":"Out as acting CBER"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":261.728,"endTime":265.632,"body":"director, Kathryn Szarama."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":266.065,"endTime":269.669,"body":"In, Karim Mikhail, one of the"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":266.065,"endTime":269.669,"body":"few Makary appointments to"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":269.669,"endTime":271.104,"body":"remain in a senior position."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":271.404,"endTime":272.905,"body":"He's a former pharma executive."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":273.539,"endTime":275.842,"body":"Out as chief of staff, Jim Traficant."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":276.342,"endTime":281.514,"body":"In on an acting basis, Lowell Zeta, who"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":276.342,"endTime":281.514,"body":"has also retained his positions as deputy"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":281.514,"endTime":285.952,"body":"commissioner for strategic initiatives"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":281.514,"endTime":285.952,"body":"and as special counsel for FDA in the"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":285.952,"endTime":292.191,"body":"Office of the Chief Counsel Out also,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":285.952,"endTime":292.191,"body":"Jeremy Walsh, chief AI officer, to be"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":292.191,"endTime":293.826,"body":"determined who's gonna replace him."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":294.06,"endTime":298.131,"body":"And I would venture to say there will"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":294.06,"endTime":298.131,"body":"be more exits probably this week."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":299.899,"endTime":303.569,"body":"are all of these"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":299.899,"endTime":303.569,"body":"replacements better than a cactus like we"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":303.569,"endTime":306.139,"body":"talked about on our uh panel at Bio€quity?"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":306.639,"endTime":308.408,"body":"Yeah, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":306.639,"endTime":308.408,"body":"they're all better than cactus."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":308.408,"endTime":311.611,"body":"They're, they're, they're, for"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":308.408,"endTime":311.611,"body":"the most part, they are people who"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":311.611,"endTime":314.981,"body":"are, have, have experience at FDA."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":315.348,"endTime":320.32,"body":"none of them are, as far as I"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":315.348,"endTime":320.32,"body":"know, ideologues who are associated"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":320.32,"endTime":322.221,"body":"with uh the MAHA movement."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":322.522,"endTime":326.926,"body":"I think they're all people who"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":322.522,"endTime":326.926,"body":"are steady hands, safe hands."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":327.16,"endTime":331.03,"body":"They're not likely to do"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":327.16,"endTime":331.03,"body":"anything surprising or,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":331.23,"endTime":333.199,"body":"exciting one way or the other."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":333.466,"endTime":338.604,"body":"And I, I think a period of stability um"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":333.466,"endTime":338.604,"body":"is something that certainly FDA staff"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":338.604,"endTime":341.307,"body":"and, and regulated industry would welcome."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":341.708,"endTime":346.279,"body":"I think kind of the biggest unknown"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":341.708,"endTime":346.279,"body":"really is what Diamantis is gonna do"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":346.279,"endTime":348.548,"body":"with the job of acting commissioner."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":349.015,"endTime":351.751,"body":"He owes his job to Klomp"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":349.015,"endTime":351.751,"body":"and reports to Klomp."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":352.251,"endTime":356.022,"body":"And Klomp's loyalty seems to be"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":352.251,"endTime":356.022,"body":"to Trump rather than to Kennedy."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":356.589,"endTime":360.226,"body":"My impression is the White House"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":356.589,"endTime":360.226,"body":"doesn't want drama from FDA right now."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":360.226,"endTime":361.794,"body":"It wants quiet competence."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":362.195,"endTime":365.331,"body":"I think that means that until"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":362.195,"endTime":365.331,"body":"there's a new commissioner, career"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":365.331,"endTime":368.601,"body":"staff are gonna be making decisions,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":365.331,"endTime":368.601,"body":"but they've been hollowed out."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":368.868,"endTime":371.804,"body":"The most forward-looking"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":368.868,"endTime":371.804,"body":"staff have been fired or left."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":372.071,"endTime":376.642,"body":"so I think you can expect more"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":372.071,"endTime":376.642,"body":"conservative decision-making, more"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":376.642,"endTime":381.347,"body":"rigidity, at least until, new permanent"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":376.642,"endTime":381.347,"body":"center directors are appointed."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":382.315,"endTime":386.386,"body":"Steve who, who might uh be"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":382.315,"endTime":386.386,"body":"up for the next FDA commissioner slot?"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":387.153,"endTime":388.888,"body":"the short"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":387.153,"endTime":388.888,"body":"answer is I don't know."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":388.888,"endTime":390.556,"body":"I'm not sure that anybody really knows."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":390.723,"endTime":394.594,"body":"I can say that, you know, there's a,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":390.723,"endTime":394.594,"body":"there's a movement, um... So a lot of"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":394.594,"endTime":399.298,"body":"people in industry signed onto a letter"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":394.594,"endTime":399.298,"body":"endorsing Richard Pazdur for the position."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":399.632,"endTime":404.437,"body":"I think he's very unlikely to be offered"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":399.632,"endTime":404.437,"body":"the job, and if he was, I think it's very"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":404.437,"endTime":406.205,"body":"far from clear that he could be confirmed."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":406.539,"endTime":409.675,"body":"The White House wants somebody who's"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":406.539,"endTime":409.675,"body":"gonna be pliable, who's gonna be"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":409.675,"endTime":414.981,"body":"reliable, political person who's gonna,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":409.675,"endTime":414.981,"body":"respond to their um to their requests."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":415.281,"endTime":417.083,"body":"I don't think that Pazdur"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":415.281,"endTime":417.083,"body":"would fit that bill."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":417.65,"endTime":420.386,"body":"MAHA is demanding its own candidate."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":420.953,"endTime":424.424,"body":"Pazdur's built his career on"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":420.953,"endTime":424.424,"body":"scientific integrity and in putting"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":424.424,"endTime":425.892,"body":"the needs of patients first."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":426.325,"endTime":428.995,"body":"That would make him an excellent"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":426.325,"endTime":428.995,"body":"commissioner, but I think it also"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":428.995,"endTime":432.165,"body":"makes it very unlikely that he"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":428.995,"endTime":432.165,"body":"would be nominated Or confirmed."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":432.432,"endTime":436.002,"body":"I also have to say that I think that the"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":432.432,"endTime":436.002,"body":"endorsement of a very large number of"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":436.002,"endTime":438.171,"body":"biotech leaders isn't gonna help him."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":438.504,"endTime":442.875,"body":"You know, the White House is listening to"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":438.504,"endTime":442.875,"body":"Dave Ricks from Lilly and Albert Bourla"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":442.875,"endTime":448.147,"body":"from Pfizer, not biotech CEOs, and if the"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":442.875,"endTime":448.147,"body":"Democrats win um control of the Senate,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":448.381,"endTime":452.185,"body":"industry support would be disqualifying"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":448.381,"endTime":452.185,"body":"for anybody trying to get confirmed."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":452.852,"endTime":457.423,"body":"So my guess, maybe it's gonna be somebody"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":452.852,"endTime":457.423,"body":"from a small or a mid-sized biotech."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":457.924,"endTime":462.228,"body":"Somebody like George Tidmarsh,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":457.924,"endTime":462.228,"body":"who was briefly CDER director,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":462.662,"endTime":465.465,"body":"Whoever it is, is gonna have to"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":462.662,"endTime":465.465,"body":"have conservative credentials."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":465.832,"endTime":468.634,"body":"They're gonna have to be strongly"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":465.832,"endTime":468.634,"body":"anti-abortion in order to get"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":468.668,"endTime":471.904,"body":"confirmed um if the Republicans"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":468.668,"endTime":471.904,"body":"are in control of the Senate."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":471.904,"endTime":476.209,"body":"They're gonna have to have credentials"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":471.904,"endTime":476.209,"body":"in a kind of like anti-pharma or, or,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":476.209,"endTime":481.481,"body":"or at least pro drug price reform, to"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":476.209,"endTime":481.481,"body":"get through under a Democratic Senate."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":481.514,"endTime":483.916,"body":"So it's gonna be, it's gonna"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":481.514,"endTime":483.916,"body":"be a difficult situation"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":484.183,"endTime":485.451,"body":"for anyone to get through."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":485.718,"endTime":489.889,"body":"I think that it means that even if we"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":485.718,"endTime":489.889,"body":"see a nomination soon, that because"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":489.889,"endTime":493.092,"body":"there's a lot of rumors that we're"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":489.889,"endTime":493.092,"body":"gonna see a nomination soon, that"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":493.226,"endTime":497.597,"body":"whoever's nominated is gonna take a"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":493.226,"endTime":497.597,"body":"very long time to get through, and"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":497.864,"endTime":500.867,"body":"Kyle Diamantis will be running it"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":497.864,"endTime":500.867,"body":"on an acting basis for some time."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":501.534,"endTime":504.971,"body":"Yeah and Steve uh on"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":501.534,"endTime":504.971,"body":"our morning editorial standup, you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":505.071,"endTime":511.344,"body":"mentioned uh Senator Cassidy, Cassidy"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":505.071,"endTime":511.344,"body":"unchained is going to have quite a role"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":511.511,"endTime":512.445,"body":"Yeah, well, I think so."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":512.445,"endTime":516.749,"body":"Look, so yeah, Cassidy, he, he doesn't,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":512.445,"endTime":516.749,"body":"he's, so he's the chairman of the Senate"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":516.916,"endTime":521.053,"body":"Health Education Labor and Pensions"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":516.916,"endTime":521.053,"body":"Committee, which has jurisdiction over"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":521.053,"endTime":526.993,"body":"FDA, and pretty much is a gatekeeper for"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":521.053,"endTime":526.993,"body":"who's gonna be the next FDA commissioner."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":527.36,"endTime":530.096,"body":"He doesn't owe the Trump"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":527.36,"endTime":530.096,"body":"administration anything at this point."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":530.496,"endTime":535.134,"body":"He's the first incumbent U.S. senator"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":530.496,"endTime":535.134,"body":"in twelve years to lose a primary."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":535.501,"endTime":540.806,"body":"He lost it because the president, ran a"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":535.501,"endTime":540.806,"body":"candidate against him and denigrated him"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":540.873,"endTime":543.376,"body":"uh relentlessly, humiliated him publicly."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":543.809,"endTime":547.58,"body":"Look, Cassidy was doomed the"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":543.809,"endTime":547.58,"body":"day that he voted for Trump's"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":547.58,"endTime":549.882,"body":"impeachment in February 2021."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":550.349,"endTime":552.852,"body":"I think he's kind of a, it's"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":550.349,"endTime":552.852,"body":"kind of a tragic situation."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":552.852,"endTime":556.155,"body":"He, he could have blocked"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":552.852,"endTime":556.155,"body":"Kennedy from being HHS secretary."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":556.489,"endTime":559.659,"body":"He knew that Kennedy was gonna"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":556.489,"endTime":559.659,"body":"be disastrous for public health."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":560.226,"endTime":562.995,"body":"It seems like he believed that"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":560.226,"endTime":562.995,"body":"voting for Kennedy would somehow"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":562.995,"endTime":564.463,"body":"save his political future."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":564.864,"endTime":566.632,"body":"At the time, I, I didn't believe that."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":566.632,"endTime":569.168,"body":"A lot of other people didn't"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":566.632,"endTime":569.168,"body":"believe it, but it seems to be"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":569.168,"endTime":571.304,"body":"what Cassidy was calculated."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":571.671,"endTime":576.876,"body":"That decision, the decision to allow"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":571.671,"endTime":576.876,"body":"Kennedy to be HHS secretary has inflicted"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":576.876,"endTime":582.915,"body":"immense harm on America, including"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":576.876,"endTime":582.915,"body":"on FDA and, patients who rely on FDA."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":583.382,"endTime":586.619,"body":"Cassidy could have sunset his"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":583.382,"endTime":586.619,"body":"political career with pride by"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":586.619,"endTime":588.087,"body":"saving the country from Kennedy."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":588.321,"endTime":588.921,"body":"he didn't do it."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":589.422,"endTime":591.49,"body":"Now he's got nothing to lose."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":591.791,"endTime":596.429,"body":"he's publicly said that he was going to"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":591.791,"endTime":596.429,"body":"demand that a commissioner to be confirmed"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":596.429,"endTime":600.099,"body":"while he's still in the Senate, while"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":596.429,"endTime":600.099,"body":"Cassidy is still in the Senate, which"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":600.099,"endTime":604.77,"body":"is until the end of the year, will have"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":600.099,"endTime":604.77,"body":"to hew to his anti-abortion stance."},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":605.071,"endTime":609.275,"body":"He, he may have other requirements,"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":605.071,"endTime":609.275,"body":"and um he's certainly in no mood"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":609.275,"endTime":614.68,"body":"to to do the administration any"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":609.275,"endTime":614.68,"body":"favors or to do anything that would"},{"speaker":"Steve Usdin","startTime":614.847,"endTime":616.782,"body":"tarnish his reputation going forward"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":617.883,"endTime":619.685,"body":"Alright, thanks"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":617.883,"endTime":619.685,"body":"for that update, Steve."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":620.119,"endTime":626.258,"body":"Steve's story on what's happening"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":620.119,"endTime":626.258,"body":"at FDA is out now, and he'll be uh"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":626.492,"endTime":630.029,"body":"keeping his ear to the ground, and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":626.492,"endTime":630.029,"body":"for the record uh I, I actually hold"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":630.062,"endTime":635.368,"body":"cactuses in, in quite high regard,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":630.062,"endTime":635.368,"body":"being a, being a California guy."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":635.635,"endTime":643.509,"body":"All right, Stephen uh you had your eyes"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":635.635,"endTime":643.509,"body":"on the European Congress on Obesity,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":643.676,"endTime":649.882,"body":"which took place last week, and you dug"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":643.676,"endTime":649.882,"body":"through over 300 abstracts to see what"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":649.949,"endTime":651.684,"body":"you could find in terms of new targets."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":651.751,"endTime":653.519,"body":"Well uh what did you find?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":654.387,"endTime":654.587,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":654.587,"endTime":655.087,"body":"Thanks, Jeff."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":655.087,"endTime":655.321,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":655.321,"endTime":659.258,"body":"So I got uh got some inspiration"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":655.321,"endTime":659.258,"body":"from, you know, my colleague, Lauren"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":659.258,"endTime":663.596,"body":"Martz, who does this regularly for"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":659.258,"endTime":663.596,"body":"other cancer conferences like AACR."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":663.596,"endTime":666.465,"body":"And I think, you know, we had this on a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":663.596,"endTime":666.465,"body":"couple of weeks ago on the podcast where"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":666.465,"endTime":670.236,"body":"she found one hundred and seventy-two"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":666.465,"endTime":670.236,"body":"new targets, and so I was like, wow,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":670.236,"endTime":673.105,"body":"if she can find that many targets in"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":670.236,"endTime":673.105,"body":"cancer, maybe I can dig up some really"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":673.105,"endTime":676.575,"body":"interesting ones in obesity, looking"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":673.105,"endTime":676.575,"body":"at one of the obesity conferences."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":676.876,"endTime":679.345,"body":"So that was sort of the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":676.876,"endTime":679.345,"body":"premise for doing this."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":679.378,"endTime":682.615,"body":"And yeah, as you say found"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":679.378,"endTime":682.615,"body":"three hundred and thirty-two"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":682.615,"endTime":683.916,"body":"abstracts that I went through."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":684.483,"endTime":688.32,"body":"Maybe the-- I mean, maybe I should have"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":684.483,"endTime":688.32,"body":"expected it, but what I was a bit maybe"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":688.32,"endTime":692.658,"body":"disappointed with was the fact that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":688.32,"endTime":692.658,"body":"eighty-eight percent of those abstracts"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":692.925,"endTime":695.327,"body":"were related to incretin-based therapies."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":695.327,"endTime":699.298,"body":"So that being GLP-1, glucagon, or GIP."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":699.765,"endTime":702.835,"body":"We only found six new targets"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":699.765,"endTime":702.835,"body":"that hadn't been in development"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":702.835,"endTime":704.87,"body":"for obesity in our BCIQ database."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":705.371,"endTime":709.208,"body":"So I was a little disappointed, I"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":705.371,"endTime":709.208,"body":"guess, at the fact that there weren't"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":709.775,"endTime":711.977,"body":"a lot more other targets there."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":712.445,"endTime":715.981,"body":"but uh you know, in, in kind of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":712.445,"endTime":715.981,"body":"reflecting on it, I guess I kind"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":715.981,"endTime":717.516,"body":"of had two takeaways from that."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":717.516,"endTime":721.921,"body":"You know, one being m-maybe I shouldn't"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":717.516,"endTime":721.921,"body":"have been as surprised as I was given"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":721.921,"endTime":726.092,"body":"the fact that, you know, obesity's"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":721.921,"endTime":726.092,"body":"really only been a commercially"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":726.092,"endTime":729.295,"body":"successful market since, what?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":729.295,"endTime":732.198,"body":"2021, when Wegovy was"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":729.295,"endTime":732.198,"body":"first approved for obesity."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":732.198,"endTime":737.002,"body":"So I mean, it's a very young, very"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":732.198,"endTime":737.002,"body":"nascent market from that respect."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":737.002,"endTime":740.873,"body":"And so it doesn't have the decades"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":737.002,"endTime":740.873,"body":"and decades of, you know, basic"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":740.873,"endTime":744.744,"body":"research and sort of investment in"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":740.873,"endTime":744.744,"body":"basic research kind of piling in."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":744.744,"endTime":747.213,"body":"So, so it's still very"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":744.744,"endTime":747.213,"body":"young in that respect."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":747.213,"endTime":749.381,"body":"So I think that's partly"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":747.213,"endTime":749.381,"body":"reflected in what we see."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":749.749,"endTime":753.719,"body":"And just also the fact that, the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":749.749,"endTime":753.719,"body":"commercial market being so, so young,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":754.32,"endTime":757.79,"body":"there's still minimal penetration,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":754.32,"endTime":757.79,"body":"you know, in terms of the number of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":757.79,"endTime":761.227,"body":"patients that are actually on GLP-1"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":757.79,"endTime":761.227,"body":"therapies and the fact that, these"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":761.227,"endTime":763.395,"body":"are highly efficacious targets."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":763.596,"endTime":767.066,"body":"You know, it's maybe no surprise that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":763.596,"endTime":767.066,"body":"there's still a lot of people piling into"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":767.099,"endTime":767.199,"body":"incretins."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":767.6,"endTime":771.637,"body":"I interesting, Stephen, we"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":767.6,"endTime":771.637,"body":"re- recently was looking at the sales"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":771.637,"endTime":774.306,"body":"of um the two approved therapies, right?"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":774.306,"endTime":780.212,"body":"And we saw that tirzepatide, that,"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":774.306,"endTime":780.212,"body":"that franchise is kind of far and"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":780.212,"endTime":786.619,"body":"away top-selling drug of all time on,"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":780.212,"endTime":786.619,"body":"like, a quarterly or annual basis."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":787.086,"endTime":787.386,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":787.686,"endTime":792.725,"body":"Um, blasting through Keytruda"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":787.686,"endTime":792.725,"body":"and Humira's top sales or whatever."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":792.992,"endTime":795.995,"body":"Yet when people talk to us"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":792.992,"endTime":795.995,"body":"about it, they're like, \"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":795.995,"endTime":798.43,"body":"this is so under-penetrated."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":795.995,"endTime":798.43,"body":"There's so much room for growth.\""},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":798.831,"endTime":801.1,"body":"Exactly, and that's,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":798.831,"endTime":801.1,"body":"that's, that's the thing that, that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":801.133,"endTime":804.403,"body":"I think that's the reason why Lilly"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":801.133,"endTime":804.403,"body":"is valued at what it is, right?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":804.403,"endTime":809.842,"body":"Is that there's this, there's this feeling"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":804.403,"endTime":809.842,"body":"that it's taken over and done so well"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":809.842,"endTime":814.914,"body":"commercially, yet there is still so much"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":809.842,"endTime":814.914,"body":"further that it could potentially go."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":815.648,"endTime":819.218,"body":"I think this was maybe a year ago, but"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":815.648,"endTime":819.218,"body":"there was, you know, talk, I think Novo"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":819.218,"endTime":823.689,"body":"was estimating that maybe one percent of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":819.218,"endTime":823.689,"body":"the addressable obesity population was"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":823.689,"endTime":829.328,"body":"on therapy, and so even if you can get"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":823.689,"endTime":829.328,"body":"that into the you know, just think of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":829.328,"endTime":832.498,"body":"getting into twenties, thirties, forty"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":829.328,"endTime":832.498,"body":"percent of patients on, on treatment."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":832.698,"endTime":834.533,"body":"And, and this is the, this"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":832.698,"endTime":834.533,"body":"is the issue though, right?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":834.533,"endTime":837.036,"body":"Is obviously, maybe taking this a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":834.533,"endTime":837.036,"body":"little further than just the new"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":837.036,"endTime":840.84,"body":"targets here, but these are drugs"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":837.036,"endTime":840.84,"body":"that are not well tolerated at the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":840.84,"endTime":842.341,"body":"moment, and that's, that's the issue."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":842.341,"endTime":846.445,"body":"And so you've got patients kind of coming"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":842.341,"endTime":846.445,"body":"on and going off therapy, and so I think"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":846.445,"endTime":850.916,"body":"that is what, it's that opportunity that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":846.445,"endTime":850.916,"body":"people see out there that there's still"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":850.916,"endTime":855.487,"body":"more, you know, that, you know, if we"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":850.916,"endTime":855.487,"body":"just get a dual or triple combo that is"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":855.487,"endTime":859.291,"body":"as good as what's out there, you know,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":855.487,"endTime":859.291,"body":"if you can supply the market there's"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":859.291,"endTime":861.46,"body":"maybe a big, big commercial opportunity."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":861.927,"endTime":865.664,"body":"Yeah, and I see"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":861.927,"endTime":865.664,"body":"Cerevance working on THIK-1 , Stephen."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":865.798,"endTime":874.406,"body":"Uh, seems a missed opportunity there to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":865.798,"endTime":874.406,"body":"spell it uh T-H-I-K rather than T-H-I-C-C."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":874.64,"endTime":879.945,"body":"And of course, looking up that term"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":874.64,"endTime":879.945,"body":"in the dictionary as a colleague uh"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":880.112,"endTime":884.817,"body":"sent over to me, you've got a great"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":880.112,"endTime":884.817,"body":"picture of a corgi from the behind."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":885.217,"endTime":885.384,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":885.584,"endTime":885.784,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":886.051,"endTime":886.852,"body":"tell you, new targets."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":886.852,"endTime":889.054,"body":"You got another new target"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":886.852,"endTime":889.054,"body":"for me though, don't you?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":889.421,"endTime":890.022,"body":"Oh, I did."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":890.022,"endTime":893.726,"body":"Well, it just-- So it stemmed when we were"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":890.022,"endTime":893.726,"body":"at Bio€quity, you know, we had had that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":893.726,"endTime":899.598,"body":"sort of just-- I'd asked Lauren on that uh"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":893.726,"endTime":899.598,"body":"AACR targets podcast about, you know, were"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":899.598,"endTime":901.433,"body":"there any cool new targets that you found?"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":901.433,"endTime":905.738,"body":"And I think she had mentioned SEAL1"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":901.433,"endTime":905.738,"body":"as being kind of one of the new ones"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":905.738,"endTime":907.439,"body":"that was a cool name that she'd found."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":907.473,"endTime":910.809,"body":"And uh so I think I'd mentioned"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":907.473,"endTime":910.809,"body":"that Hedgehog was my, was"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":910.809,"endTime":911.61,"body":"my favorite or whatever."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":911.61,"endTime":915.714,"body":"So anyways, I had someone approach me at"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":911.61,"endTime":915.714,"body":"Bio€quity and say, \"Hey, you know, heard"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":915.714,"endTime":919.451,"body":"you talking about the targets on the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":915.714,"endTime":919.451,"body":"podcast. You should hear our new target.\""},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":919.585,"endTime":922.321,"body":"And their new target is called DARKFOX,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":923.322,"endTime":925.791,"body":"which I thought that was"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":923.322,"endTime":925.791,"body":"a very cool target name."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":926.392,"endTime":931.23,"body":"So DARKFOX is a um it's a"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":926.392,"endTime":931.23,"body":"cancer-specific dark antigen."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":931.43,"endTime":935.434,"body":"Uh, it's  alternative reading"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":931.43,"endTime":935.434,"body":"frame within FOXM1 discovered"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":935.434,"endTime":937.136,"body":"by the U.K. biotech Enara Bio."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":937.169,"endTime":941.774,"body":"And so they're developing a bispecific"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":937.169,"endTime":941.774,"body":"T cell engager against DARKFOX."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":941.907,"endTime":942.908,"body":"And so I thought that was a..."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":942.942,"endTime":945.144,"body":"Oh, I'm, I'm"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":942.942,"endTime":945.144,"body":"all, all in on that one."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":945.144,"endTime":948.18,"body":"That one sounds like... I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":945.144,"endTime":948.18,"body":"were talking about secrets and whatnot."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":948.18,"endTime":953.452,"body":"That sounds like kind of a, a, a"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":948.18,"endTime":953.452,"body":"ninja-esque uh code name there for you."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":953.819,"endTime":954.987,"body":"I feel, I feel like"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":956.121,"endTime":957.423,"body":"definitely"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":956.121,"endTime":957.423,"body":"beats Sonic the Hedgehog"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":957.423,"endTime":957.69,"body":"feel like with DARKFOX"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":957.69,"endTime":960.659,"body":"I feel like I've"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":957.69,"endTime":960.659,"body":"seen a, you know, a Disney or Pixar"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":960.659,"endTime":964.33,"body":"movie in which a fox is a ninja"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":960.659,"endTime":964.33,"body":"somewhere in some way or something."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":964.496,"endTime":964.964,"body":"But um"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":965.497,"endTime":967.032,"body":"We'll"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":965.497,"endTime":967.032,"body":"have to delve into that."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":967.499,"endTime":972.271,"body":"Uh, before I let you go, Stephen, I know"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":967.499,"endTime":972.271,"body":"it's into your evening there in the U.K.,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":972.271,"endTime":978.444,"body":"but I did wanna get your take on how the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":972.271,"endTime":978.444,"body":"IPO market has been looking for biotechs."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":979.478,"endTime":979.979,"body":"Yeah, no."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":979.979,"endTime":983.782,"body":"So it's we, we wrote about it in the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":979.979,"endTime":983.782,"body":"in our second quarter preview about"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":983.782,"endTime":987.987,"body":"how potentially challenging the second"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":983.782,"endTime":987.987,"body":"quarter was gonna be for IPOs given"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":987.987,"endTime":991.89,"body":"all of the upheaval and uncertainty in"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":987.987,"endTime":991.89,"body":"the markets and the geo- geopolitics."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":991.924,"endTime":996.028,"body":"And um I have to say uh so"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":991.924,"endTime":996.028,"body":"far it's been pretty good."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":996.395,"endTime":999.231,"body":"You know, the IPOs that have got"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":996.395,"endTime":999.231,"body":"out in the second quarter uh we had"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":999.231,"endTime":1003.469,"body":"Kailera, which was one of the biggest"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":999.231,"endTime":1003.469,"body":"biotech IPOs in terms of money raised."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1003.769,"endTime":1008.14,"body":"And just also on performance,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1003.769,"endTime":1008.14,"body":"it's been pretty good."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1008.14,"endTime":1011.11,"body":"I mean Kailera so far is up 32%."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1011.91,"endTime":1013.045,"body":"Alamar is up 27."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1013.045,"endTime":1016.448,"body":"I think the best performing one from"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1013.045,"endTime":1016.448,"body":"the first quarter was Veradermics,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1017.049,"endTime":1020.753,"body":"which I don't think we gave a lot of"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1017.049,"endTime":1020.753,"body":"attention to because it's the um it's"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1020.753,"endTime":1025.124,"body":"for male pattern baldness, but they"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1020.753,"endTime":1025.124,"body":"actually had positive Phase III data."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1025.124,"endTime":1029.228,"body":"They're, they're actually up about 500%"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1025.124,"endTime":1029.228,"body":"from their IPO price in three months."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1029.595,"endTime":1033.332,"body":"So that was one that,  I'm sure"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1029.595,"endTime":1033.332,"body":"insiders were quite anxious about"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1033.332,"endTime":1036.235,"body":"that having a Phase III readout"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1033.332,"endTime":1036.235,"body":"within the six-month timeframe."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1036.235,"endTime":1040.239,"body":"So essentially they just had to hope"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1036.235,"endTime":1040.239,"body":"that the Phase III readout positively."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1040.672,"endTime":1044.309,"body":"But I mean, that's a great setup, you"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1040.672,"endTime":1044.309,"body":"know, that they had that positive readout."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1044.376,"endTime":1046.145,"body":"They're now trading at about $100."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1046.612,"endTime":1049.615,"body":"So, you know, that was a good story"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1046.612,"endTime":1049.615,"body":"I think for generals to see cause I"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1049.615,"endTime":1053.218,"body":"think there obviously people think that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1049.615,"endTime":1053.218,"body":"just from a commercial perspective,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1053.218,"endTime":1056.422,"body":"there's a lot of guys that look"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1053.218,"endTime":1056.422,"body":"like me and might be interested in"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1056.422,"endTime":1057.923,"body":"uh you know, may- maybe don't have"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1057.923,"endTime":1058.323,"body":"the self"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1058.357,"endTime":1059.358,"body":"by that"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1058.357,"endTime":1059.358,"body":"you mean dashing Stephen,"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1059.658,"endTime":1062.294,"body":"maybe don't have the"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1059.658,"endTime":1062.294,"body":"self-confidence I do in terms of that"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1062.294,"endTime":1067.933,"body":"I can-- I'm, I'm fully, you know, happy"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1062.294,"endTime":1067.933,"body":"with my uh baldness and uh confident with"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1067.933,"endTime":1071.07,"body":"it, but maybe there's others that are"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1067.933,"endTime":1071.07,"body":"a little less uh less certain and, and"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1071.07,"endTime":1073.539,"body":"willing to take a pharmacological uh fix."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1073.772,"endTime":1074.373,"body":"But, um..."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1075.507,"endTime":1076.742,"body":"Speaking of large markets,"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1076.742,"endTime":1077.076,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1077.443,"endTime":1078.777,"body":"Speaking"},{"speaker":"Stephen Hansen","startTime":1077.443,"endTime":1078.777,"body":"of large markets, exactly."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1079.411,"endTime":1082.848,"body":"It's a, it's a long"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1079.411,"endTime":1082.848,"body":"day in, in Turkey getting those hair"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1082.848,"endTime":1084.783,"body":"implants, but uh they, they work."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1084.917,"endTime":1085.217,"body":"They work."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1085.851,"endTime":1087.352,"body":"So... Or the Philippines."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1087.352,"endTime":1090.289,"body":"Don't sleep on the hair"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1087.352,"endTime":1090.289,"body":"specialists of the Philippines."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1090.289,"endTime":1093.759,"body":"All right, Stephen, thank you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1090.289,"endTime":1093.759,"body":"very much for that hot take."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1093.759,"endTime":1095.561,"body":"Uh enjoy your evening."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1095.561,"endTime":1102.935,"body":"We'll be back to dig into some"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1095.561,"endTime":1102.935,"body":"nicely nerdy topics with uh Ms."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1102.935,"endTime":1103.602,"body":"Golovin."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1104.036,"endTime":1106.972,"body":"This episode of BioCentury"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1104.036,"endTime":1106.972,"body":"This Week is brought to you by the 3rd"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1107.372,"endTime":1109.108,"body":"BioCentury Grand Rounds in Seattle."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1110.809,"endTime":1113.545,"body":"Advancing drug development"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1110.809,"endTime":1113.545,"body":"requires more than discovery."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1113.779,"endTime":1115.614,"body":"It requires the right partners."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1115.981,"endTime":1120.085,"body":"The 3rd edition of BioCentury Grand"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1115.981,"endTime":1120.085,"body":"Rounds U.S. convenes venture capital,"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1120.352,"endTime":1125.357,"body":"biopharma decision-makers, and academic"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1120.352,"endTime":1125.357,"body":"innovators in Seattle, June 3rd to 5th."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1126.058,"endTime":1129.561,"body":"This R\u0026D-focused forum brings"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1126.058,"endTime":1129.561,"body":"together leaders at the forefront"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1129.561,"endTime":1133.499,"body":"of translational science to examine"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1129.561,"endTime":1133.499,"body":"the breakthroughs, bottlenecks and"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1133.499,"endTime":1138.003,"body":"strategies shaping the future of drug"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1133.499,"endTime":1138.003,"body":"and diagnostic development and how"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1138.003,"endTime":1140.305,"body":"to make early-stage R\u0026D investible."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1140.906,"endTime":1144.643,"body":"Discover cutting-edge disease,"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1140.906,"endTime":1144.643,"body":"biology, and platform technologies."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1145.01,"endTime":1148.58,"body":"Gain insights from emerging"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1145.01,"endTime":1148.58,"body":"biotechs and academic pioneers."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1148.914,"endTime":1152.951,"body":"Schedule partnering meetings with"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1148.914,"endTime":1152.951,"body":"VCs, pharma, and leading academics"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1153.051,"endTime":1155.12,"body":"who can accelerate your path forward."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1155.754,"endTime":1159.892,"body":"Grand Rounds U.S. is where rigorous"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1155.754,"endTime":1159.892,"body":"science meets strategic capital"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1160.192,"endTime":1163.695,"body":"and where the right conversations"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1160.192,"endTime":1163.695,"body":"move discovery toward development."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1164.263,"endTime":1169.368,"body":"Join us in Seattle and discover what's"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1164.263,"endTime":1169.368,"body":"next in biopharma and who's driving it."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1169.902,"endTime":1171.17,"body":"Secure your spot."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1171.837,"endTime":1173.972,"body":"Register at BioCenturyGrandRounds.com."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1178.744,"endTime":1180.412,"body":"All right, we are back."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1180.712,"endTime":1182.748,"body":"You heard it there, Grand Rounds."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1183.015,"endTime":1185.984,"body":"it is coming up right around the corner."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1185.984,"endTime":1191.723,"body":"There's still some spots left to show"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1185.984,"endTime":1191.723,"body":"off your poster get on stage, tell your"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1191.723,"endTime":1198.53,"body":"company's story in front of investors,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1191.723,"endTime":1198.53,"body":"or just listen to some  hyper-smart"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1198.764,"endTime":1202.267,"body":"folks like David Baker drop some science."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1202.601,"endTime":1207.039,"body":"All right, Danielle, you"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1202.601,"endTime":1207.039,"body":"uh had a very busy week."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1207.039,"endTime":1211.51,"body":"I think you single-handedly put"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1207.039,"endTime":1211.51,"body":"out one of our, I still call it"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1211.51,"endTime":1216.949,"body":"papers, one day it was the Danielle"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1211.51,"endTime":1216.949,"body":"Show uh all stories by Danielle."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1217.282,"endTime":1222.921,"body":"And I really enjoyed reading about"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1217.282,"endTime":1222.921,"body":"the degrader antibody conjugates."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1223.188,"endTime":1228.493,"body":"we've seen a couple of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1223.188,"endTime":1228.493,"body":"deals, Roche-C4 Gyre-Cullgen"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1228.827,"endTime":1234.433,"body":"last I checked in on DACs, it kind of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1228.827,"endTime":1234.433,"body":"seemed like it was off to a rocky start."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1234.633,"endTime":1235.801,"body":"what you got for us, Danielle?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1235.801,"endTime":1237.002,"body":"Bring us up to speed So we need"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1237.236,"endTime":1237.603,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1237.936,"endTime":1240.472,"body":"Let me just start with what a DAC is."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1240.472,"endTime":1244.843,"body":"So a degrader antibody conjugate, that's"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1240.472,"endTime":1244.843,"body":"when you take a targeted protein degrader,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1245.444,"endTime":1249.982,"body":"like think a PROTAC or a molecular glue,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1245.444,"endTime":1249.982,"body":"you chemically link it to an antibody."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1250.215,"endTime":1253.118,"body":"You might be visioning"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1250.215,"endTime":1253.118,"body":"in your mind an ADC."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1253.118,"endTime":1254.586,"body":"So it's analogous to an ADC."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1254.586,"endTime":1258.29,"body":"You have an antibody and you link"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1254.586,"endTime":1258.29,"body":"something to it, but instead of a"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1258.29,"endTime":1260.892,"body":"cytotoxic drug, you're linking a degrader."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1261.36,"endTime":1265.264,"body":"By doing that, DACs combine the"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1261.36,"endTime":1265.264,"body":"long half-life and cell type"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1265.264,"endTime":1269.001,"body":"selectivity of antibodies with the"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1265.264,"endTime":1269.001,"body":"catalytic activity of degraders."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1269.434,"endTime":1272.537,"body":"So this could potentially widen"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1269.434,"endTime":1272.537,"body":"that therapeutic window versus a"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1272.537,"endTime":1274.072,"body":"standalone degrader, for example."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1274.74,"endTime":1277.242,"body":"So when did DACs"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1274.74,"endTime":1277.242,"body":"come onto the scene, Danielle?"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1278.076,"endTime":1281.713,"body":"In my research,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1278.076,"endTime":1281.713,"body":"the sort of earliest deal that I"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1281.713,"endTime":1286.918,"body":"found was from June 2021, and this"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1281.713,"endTime":1286.918,"body":"is between Ubix and DebioPharm."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1286.918,"endTime":1291.823,"body":"But the catch there is they don't"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1286.918,"endTime":1291.823,"body":"call it a DAC, they call it an ADeC,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1292.324,"endTime":1296.328,"body":"unfortunately, an antibody-drug conjugate"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1292.324,"endTime":1296.328,"body":"and an antibody-degrader conjugate would"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1296.328,"endTime":1301.333,"body":"have the same initials, so they had to"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1296.328,"endTime":1301.333,"body":"come up with a DAC instead of ADC, but"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1301.333,"endTime":1304.503,"body":"this particular company called it an ADeC."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1304.803,"endTime":1305.937,"body":"So that was 2021."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1306.571,"endTime":1311.743,"body":"By 2022, Orum Therapeutics"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1306.571,"endTime":1311.743,"body":"had a DAC in the clinic."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1312.177,"endTime":1316.748,"body":"But many cite the first sort of marquee"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1312.177,"endTime":1316.748,"body":"DAC deal as the one between Seagen"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1316.748,"endTime":1322.254,"body":"and Nurix in September 2023, which"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1316.748,"endTime":1322.254,"body":"was then followed by a collaboration"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1322.254,"endTime":1326.725,"body":"between Merck and C4 Therapeutics"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1322.254,"endTime":1326.725,"body":"in December of that year, so 2023."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1327.125,"endTime":1331.563,"body":"And the deal pattern here is that"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1327.125,"endTime":1331.563,"body":"degrader-focused biotechs were"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1331.563,"endTime":1336.468,"body":"partnering with big biotechs or pharmas"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1331.563,"endTime":1336.468,"body":"that have antibody or ADC expertise."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1336.968,"endTime":1342.741,"body":"Then coming to 2024, that was a big year"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1336.968,"endTime":1342.741,"body":"because DAC pure-play Firefly Bio made its"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1342.741,"endTime":1346.345,"body":"debut with a $94 million Series A round."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1346.745,"endTime":1350.415,"body":"Firefly claims to have optimized linker"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1346.745,"endTime":1350.415,"body":"technology that limits the release of the"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1350.415,"endTime":1354.486,"body":"degrader payload in circulation, although"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1350.415,"endTime":1354.486,"body":"it has been pretty tight-lipped about its"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1354.486,"endTime":1356.588,"body":"targets, programs, and partnerships since."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1357.089,"endTime":1360.759,"body":"Um, also in 2024, 3C"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1357.089,"endTime":1360.759,"body":"Therapeutics was founded."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1361.159,"endTime":1365.33,"body":"Talked to the CEO recently, and they"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1361.159,"endTime":1365.33,"body":"aim to offer partners a ubiquitous"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1365.33,"endTime":1367.499,"body":"backbone to make DACs plug and play."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1367.799,"endTime":1371.97,"body":"So their platform, dubbed TriCore,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1367.799,"endTime":1371.97,"body":"has three distinct conjugation points,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1371.97,"endTime":1375.307,"body":"one for the ligand that binds the"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1371.97,"endTime":1375.307,"body":"protein of interest, one for the ligand"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1375.307,"endTime":1379.411,"body":"that binds the E3 ligase, and then a"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1375.307,"endTime":1379.411,"body":"third handle for antibody attachment."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1379.778,"endTime":1384.149,"body":"The CEO told me that companies often"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1379.778,"endTime":1384.149,"body":"start with an optimized degrader, and"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1384.149,"endTime":1388.019,"body":"then they have to search for ways to bolt"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1384.149,"endTime":1388.019,"body":"on an antibody handle, ultimately, this"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1388.019,"endTime":1391.857,"body":"can alter its physiochemical properties"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1388.019,"endTime":1391.857,"body":"and impact the degradation activity."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1392.391,"endTime":1396.194,"body":"So their whole thesis is to offer, you"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1392.391,"endTime":1396.194,"body":"know, a ubiquitous backbone for DACs,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1396.294,"endTime":1399.965,"body":"and you can check out that emerging"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1396.294,"endTime":1399.965,"body":"company profile published May 13th."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1401.333,"endTime":1403.402,"body":"In your timeline"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1401.333,"endTime":1403.402,"body":"though, let's get to the rocky bit"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1404.236,"endTime":1408.206,"body":"Yeah, so also in"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1404.236,"endTime":1408.206,"body":"2024, unfortunately, Orum Therapeutics"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1408.206,"endTime":1411.843,"body":"announced a fatal serious adverse"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1408.206,"endTime":1411.843,"body":"event in its Phase I study of the"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1411.843,"endTime":1415.68,"body":"first clinical DAC, that was ORM-5029."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1416.348,"endTime":1421.62,"body":"It targets HER2 and delivers a GSPT1"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1416.348,"endTime":1421.62,"body":"degrader payload, and the company"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1421.62,"endTime":1424.923,"body":"has since announced discontinuation"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1421.62,"endTime":1424.923,"body":"of that program and pivoted"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1424.923,"endTime":1426.591,"body":"to next-generation constructs."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1427.225,"endTime":1433.064,"body":"They showed positive data this year"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1427.225,"endTime":1433.064,"body":"at AACR for ORM-1153, which has a"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1433.064,"endTime":1437.569,"body":"different target but delivers the same"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1433.064,"endTime":1437.569,"body":"degrader, which makes me think, you"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1437.569,"endTime":1440.906,"body":"know, they thought the problem was with"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1437.569,"endTime":1440.906,"body":"the target rather than the payload."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1441.373,"endTime":1444.109,"body":"Although we don't have much"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1441.373,"endTime":1444.109,"body":"information about, you know, what"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1444.376,"endTime":1448.313,"body":"the cause of... I think it was liver"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1444.376,"endTime":1448.313,"body":"toxicity that caused the death."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1448.68,"endTime":1452.017,"body":"Um, but yeah, the company expects"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1448.68,"endTime":1452.017,"body":"to submit an IND or a CTA for"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1452.017,"endTime":1455.287,"body":"that molecule that they presented"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1452.017,"endTime":1455.287,"body":"at AACR in the fourth quarter"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1456.188,"endTime":1456.488,"body":"Okay."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1456.788,"endTime":1460.325,"body":"Well, you talked a little bit about"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1456.788,"endTime":1460.325,"body":"um you know, this is one of these"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1460.325,"endTime":1464.896,"body":"complex modular modalities, the"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1460.325,"endTime":1464.896,"body":"antibody, the linker, and the warhead."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1464.896,"endTime":1468.266,"body":"This case, the warhead"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1464.896,"endTime":1468.266,"body":"for the ADC is a degrader."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1468.767,"endTime":1471.703,"body":"So you can imagine, okay, you,"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1468.767,"endTime":1471.703,"body":"you have all these degrader"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1471.703,"endTime":1474.873,"body":"companies out there, and you have"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1471.703,"endTime":1474.873,"body":"tons of ADC companies out there."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1475.474,"endTime":1479.544,"body":"Is there a more natural path into"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1475.474,"endTime":1479.544,"body":"the degrader antibody construct?"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1479.544,"endTime":1483.782,"body":"Like, do you... Is it more natural"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1479.544,"endTime":1483.782,"body":"to segue in from degrader expert-"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1483.782,"endTime":1485.884,"body":"expertise versus ADC expertise?"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1485.884,"endTime":1486.885,"body":"Does it not matter?"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1487.452,"endTime":1490.655,"body":"Um, and how important-- It seems"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1487.452,"endTime":1490.655,"body":"like now there are at least a"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1490.655,"endTime":1495.193,"body":"small handful of these, like,"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1490.655,"endTime":1495.193,"body":"DAC-first companies, like, thinking"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1495.193,"endTime":1497.996,"body":"specifically about the DAC issues."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1498.63,"endTime":1500.165,"body":"Is that gonna be an area of growth?"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1500.165,"endTime":1502.067,"body":"Like, how do you think"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1500.165,"endTime":1502.067,"body":"about that landscape?"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1503.034,"endTime":1505.07,"body":"Yeah, honestly,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1503.034,"endTime":1505.07,"body":"it's coming from all directions."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1505.237,"endTime":1508.707,"body":"So there are degrader companies"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1505.237,"endTime":1508.707,"body":"moving into DACs, but the way they're"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1508.707,"endTime":1512.677,"body":"doing that is partnering with,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1508.707,"endTime":1512.677,"body":"you know, ADC or antibody experts."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1512.677,"endTime":1517.282,"body":"And I think it's because what the 3C"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1512.677,"endTime":1517.282,"body":"CEO told me is, like, it's not that"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1517.282,"endTime":1520.652,"body":"easy to just bolt on an antibody to"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1517.282,"endTime":1520.652,"body":"a degrader that you already have."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1521.119,"endTime":1523.288,"body":"And then I think it could"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1521.119,"endTime":1523.288,"body":"go the other way as well."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1523.288,"endTime":1526.591,"body":"Maybe... But there's also, like,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1523.288,"endTime":1526.591,"body":"ADC companies moving into DACs."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1527.292,"endTime":1528.627,"body":"There's less of those so far."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1532.264,"body":"But then in the middle are these"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1529.16,"endTime":1532.264,"body":"DAC pure plays that are trying to"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1532.264,"endTime":1535.934,"body":"solve these issues or, like, come"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1532.264,"endTime":1535.934,"body":"up with DACs from the beginning."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1536.301,"endTime":1538.97,"body":"So I do think we'll see an"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1536.301,"endTime":1538.97,"body":"increase in that sort of middle"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1538.97,"endTime":1540.739,"body":"category, like the DAC pure plays."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1541.506,"endTime":1544.876,"body":"So because there are so many"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1541.506,"endTime":1544.876,"body":"different parts that can be tinkered with"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1544.876,"endTime":1550.882,"body":"in these modular modalities and this is"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1544.876,"endTime":1550.882,"body":"a, a new kind of version, iteration of an"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1550.882,"endTime":1555.587,"body":"antibody drug conjugate do you think that"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1550.882,"endTime":1555.587,"body":"what we're gonna see is, companies trying"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1555.587,"endTime":1562.093,"body":"to mitigate risk by going after like"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1555.587,"endTime":1562.093,"body":"established antibody targets where more of"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1562.093,"endTime":1566.431,"body":"the, like, risk might be on the degrader"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1562.093,"endTime":1566.431,"body":"end or, or how are they gonna manage that?"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1567.432,"endTime":1570.302,"body":"Yeah, I think definitely"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1567.432,"endTime":1570.302,"body":"so far people are using established"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1570.302,"endTime":1575.106,"body":"antibodies, and the, again, the 3C CEO"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1570.302,"endTime":1575.106,"body":"told me that their TriCore platform"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1575.106,"endTime":1579.477,"body":"is made to, like, bind to common, you"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1575.106,"endTime":1579.477,"body":"know, already established antibodies."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1579.978,"endTime":1584.883,"body":"So, you know, as any new modality, I don't"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1579.978,"endTime":1584.883,"body":"think people are jumping to innovate on"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1585.584,"endTime":1589.154,"body":"what... This is sort of a delivery, right?"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1589.521,"endTime":1592.791,"body":"And I don't think people are"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1589.521,"endTime":1592.791,"body":"innovating yet on what to"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1592.791,"endTime":1594.392,"body":"deliver or how to target it."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1594.426,"endTime":1596.561,"body":"It's more like... It's so early."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1596.561,"endTime":1600.265,"body":"There's only one DAC in the clinic"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1596.561,"endTime":1600.265,"body":"right now, so I think we have to"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1600.265,"endTime":1602.5,"body":"wait to see data from that first."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1602.534,"endTime":1607.472,"body":"This, the one in the clinic targets"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1602.534,"endTime":1607.472,"body":"CD33, and all the ones that I've talked"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1607.472,"endTime":1610.442,"body":"about so far deliver a GSPT1 degrader."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1611.042,"endTime":1616.481,"body":"So zero and, like, zero diversity"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1611.042,"endTime":1616.481,"body":"on the, on the degrader part so far."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1617.349,"endTime":1618.016,"body":"gotcha."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1618.483,"endTime":1624.522,"body":"But in theory, you would want, say, a"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1618.483,"endTime":1624.522,"body":"selective and kind of well-understood"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1624.956,"endTime":1631.73,"body":"surface target for the antibody, and"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1624.956,"endTime":1631.73,"body":"then maybe a target for the degrader"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1631.73,"endTime":1636.568,"body":"where you're gonna get some benefit out"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1631.73,"endTime":1636.568,"body":"of either better localization through"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1636.568,"endTime":1641.239,"body":"the antibody or that catalytic activity"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1636.568,"endTime":1641.239,"body":"that might give you something more"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1641.239,"endTime":1643.541,"body":"efficacy over a small molecule, say."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1644.376,"endTime":1645.076,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1645.343,"endTime":1648.847,"body":"Yeah, the one that had the fatality"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1645.343,"endTime":1648.847,"body":"targets HER2, which is, you"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1648.847,"endTime":1651.516,"body":"know, very established, so I'm"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1648.847,"endTime":1651.516,"body":"not sure what went wrong there."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1651.516,"endTime":1655.387,"body":"But since then, there was"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1651.516,"endTime":1655.387,"body":"a lull in deal activity."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1655.387,"endTime":1660.425,"body":"I mean, we can't say for sure it was"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1655.387,"endTime":1660.425,"body":"due to that, but from mid-2024 until"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1660.425,"endTime":1664.295,"body":"March of this year, there was really a"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1660.425,"endTime":1664.295,"body":"lull in, you know, both deal activity"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1664.295,"endTime":1666.064,"body":"and, and really company creation."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1666.064,"endTime":1670.101,"body":"But in March Gyre acquired"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1666.064,"endTime":1670.101,"body":"Cullgen, and Cullgen's a targeted"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1670.101,"endTime":1673.271,"body":"protein degradation-focused"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1670.101,"endTime":1673.271,"body":"biotech with a DAC platform."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1673.972,"endTime":1679.244,"body":"And then a month later, so in April, C4"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1673.972,"endTime":1679.244,"body":"and Roche struck a deal to combine C4's"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1679.244,"endTime":1683.214,"body":"degrader platform with Roche's antibody"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1679.244,"endTime":1683.214,"body":"design and conjugation expertise."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1683.615,"endTime":1687.018,"body":"So again, that, like, degrader"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1683.615,"endTime":1687.018,"body":"biotech partnering with a"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1687.152,"endTime":1688.987,"body":"pharma that has ADC expertise."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1689.387,"endTime":1692.791,"body":"Yeah, it appears the rocky start"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1689.387,"endTime":1692.791,"body":"didn't derail the field entirely, and"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1693.024,"endTime":1694.325,"body":"I'm excited to see how it plays out."},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1695.427,"endTime":1699.264,"body":"Well, it's one to watch, and"},{"speaker":"Selina Koch","startTime":1695.427,"endTime":1699.264,"body":"we'll keep an eye on it as it develops."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1700.098,"endTime":1700.665,"body":"Definitely."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1700.665,"endTime":1705.27,"body":"And, and despite that setback, Orum"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1700.665,"endTime":1705.27,"body":"uh definitely has a lot of momentum."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1705.704,"endTime":1710.341,"body":"that's SJ Lee's company doing"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1705.704,"endTime":1710.341,"body":"lots of interesting stuff."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1710.341,"endTime":1713.778,"body":"They're out of Boston and Daejeon, Korea."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1714.145,"endTime":1716.014,"body":"But check out Danielle's story."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1716.014,"endTime":1720.085,"body":"Check out her 3C emerging company profile."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1720.085,"endTime":1722.62,"body":"I'll drop links in the show notes."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1722.954,"endTime":1729.327,"body":"Danielle also In addition to her regular"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1722.954,"endTime":1729.327,"body":"column the Science Spotlight, where"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1729.327,"endTime":1735.767,"body":"she uh delves into what's happening in"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1729.327,"endTime":1735.767,"body":"peer-reviewed papers  she also cranked out"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1735.8,"endTime":1739.37,"body":"another emerging company profile Serif."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1739.738,"endTime":1741.272,"body":"Quick word on Serif, Danielle?"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1742.006,"endTime":1745.276,"body":"Yeah, so Serif is, you"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1742.006,"endTime":1745.276,"body":"know, Flagship's newest company that's"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1745.276,"endTime":1748.813,"body":"trying to make modified DNA a modality."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1749.247,"endTime":1752.417,"body":"and they claim that it"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1749.247,"endTime":1752.417,"body":"has Goldilocks durability."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1752.417,"endTime":1758.623,"body":"So they really like that it's lasts longer"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1752.417,"endTime":1758.623,"body":"than RNA or mRNA, but it's not quite"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1758.623,"endTime":1760.925,"body":"as permanent as, like, a gene therapy."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1761.259,"endTime":1762.16,"body":"yeah, check it out."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1762.961,"endTime":1766.197,"body":"Yeah, I, I sort of"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1762.961,"endTime":1766.197,"body":"wondered a- as I was editing this, like,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1766.631,"endTime":1771.136,"body":"is Goldilocks sort of a universally"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1766.631,"endTime":1771.136,"body":"understood term, like, around the world?"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1771.136,"endTime":1773.371,"body":"I wasn't quite sure, but uh I don't know."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1773.371,"endTime":1773.805,"body":"Maybe,"},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1774.105,"endTime":1776.508,"body":"It, it really..."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1774.105,"endTime":1776.508,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's u- I don't know."},{"speaker":"Danielle Golovin","startTime":1776.541,"endTime":1777.542,"body":"I guess it's universal"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1777.776,"endTime":1780.245,"body":"I'll have to..."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1777.776,"endTime":1780.245,"body":"Next time I'm, I'm in uh"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1780.912,"endTime":1784.949,"body":"in Taiwan or China, I'll run"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1780.912,"endTime":1784.949,"body":"it by people and, and, and see."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1785.283,"endTime":1787.719,"body":"Uh, maybe they have their"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1785.283,"endTime":1787.719,"body":"own uh their own term."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1787.719,"endTime":1790.188,"body":"I'm sure they have their"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1787.719,"endTime":1790.188,"body":"own uh equivalent term."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1790.188,"endTime":1791.623,"body":"It's, it's a very useful term."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1792.09,"endTime":1795.393,"body":"well that's it for BioCentury This Week."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1795.66,"endTime":1799.097,"body":"We've got lots for you to"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1795.66,"endTime":1799.097,"body":"read on biocentury.com."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1799.397,"endTime":1800.532,"body":"thanks for tuning in."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1800.598,"endTime":1806.805,"body":"We will be taking a break next Monday"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1800.598,"endTime":1806.805,"body":"as it's a holiday here in the US,"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1806.805,"endTime":1813.678,"body":"but we'll be back next Tuesday, we'll"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1806.805,"endTime":1813.678,"body":"be talking about some ADC technology"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1813.678,"endTime":1818.249,"body":"that's uh quite interesting, and"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1813.678,"endTime":1818.249,"body":"I'm sure Steve will have an update"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1818.249,"endTime":1822.353,"body":"for us on what is happening at FDA."},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1822.687,"endTime":1826.591,"body":"special thanks to Kendall Square"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1822.687,"endTime":1826.591,"body":"Orchestra, which provides the"},{"speaker":"Jeff Cranmer","startTime":1826.591,"endTime":1828.76,"body":"music for BioCentury's podcast."},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1830.161,"endTime":1832.297,"body":"BioCentury would"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1830.161,"endTime":1832.297,"body":"like to thank Jeito Capital for its"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1832.297,"endTime":1836.0,"body":"continued support of our BioCentury"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1832.297,"endTime":1836.0,"body":"This Week podcast and our 26th"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1836.0,"endTime":1839.47,"body":"annual Bio€quity Europe conference"},{"speaker":"Voice Talent","startTime":1836.0,"endTime":1839.47,"body":"this May in Prague, Czech Republic."}]}