Ep. 363 - New targets at AACR, biopharma deals, Kurma fund

More than 175 new oncology targets surfaced at this year’s American Association for Cancer Research annual meeting in San Diego, with the focus on new ways to enhance the immune response against solid tumors and to make existing immunotherapies more effective. On the latest BioCentury This Week podcast, BioCentury’s analysts assess the new targets identified among the thousands of abstracts at AACR, as well as emerging pan-RAS inhibiting antibody-drug conjugates.
The analysts also discuss Eli Lilly's latest deal — for a JAK-2 inhibitor from Ajax — and what the current pace of M&A and partnerships says about the state of biopharma dealmaking. This episode also features Kurma Partners’ new venture fund and the latest in BioCentury’s Emerging Company Profile series, spotlighting U.K.-based rheumatoid arthritis company Elevara Medicines. This episode of the BioCentury This Week podcast was brought to you by IQVIA Biotech.

View full story: https://www.biocentury.com/article/659298

#AACR #OncologyTargets #Immunotherapy #BiotechMA #ADC

00:01 - Sponsor Message: IQVIA Biotech
02:50 - AACR: New Targets
11:08 - AACR: Pan-RAS Inhibitor ADCs
15:35 - Biopharma Deals
23:53 - Kurma's New Venture Fund
27:28 - Emerging Company Profile: Elevara

To submit a question to BioCentury’s editors, email the BioCentury This Week team at podcasts@biocentury.com.

Transcript

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[Autogenerated Transcript] BioCentury This Week is brought to you by IQVIA Biotech. A full-service CRO right sized for biotech. Dedicated to helping biotech leaders close unproductive gaps in clinical development so they can protect timelines, preserve capital and stay ahead of risk.

Jeff Cranmer: 0:23

2026 AACR conference has wrapped in San Diego. We here at BioCentury have found 175 new oncology targets. Pan-RAS inhibitor ADCs were in the spotlight at the conference. We'll have Lauren Martz on to tell you what she has found digging through the thousands of abstracts out of this year's event. Kurma Partners has a new biotech fund, what does the European VC's experience building this vehicle this time around say about early stage venture fundraising right now. Plus we'll have the latest in BioCentury's Emerging Company Profile series. I'm Jeff Cranmer, Executive Editor here at BioCentury, and joining me to discuss all of this, our Editor in Chief, Simone Fishburn, Lauren Martz, Executive Director of Biopharma Intelligence and Stephen Hansen, BioCentury's man in the U.K. Okay. Speaking of Europe, we are days away from BioCentury 26th, Bio€quity Europe investor and CEO Conference. The event kicks off May 4th in Prague. Limited seats remain. So register now and you'll get to meet Stephen and Simone in person along with our Washington Editor Steve Usdin, who will be in conversation with Richard Pazdur formerly of FDA, long time FDA leader. And we'll also have our buddy Josh Berlin, our man behind the BioCentury conference curtain. Following that meeting, we're very excited to be bringing our BioCentury Grand Rounds meeting to Seattle, that will be in June. I am currently recruiting early stage companies to take the stage and tell their stories in front of our audience of academic researchers, venture capitalists, and early stage biotechs. We'll be discussing bottlenecks in translation, how to solve them. register for the event. If you want to get up on stage and tell your story as a presenting company. Reach out to me now via LinkedIn, or you can find me here at BioCentury. Okay, The American Association for Cancer Research, AACR has just wrapped its annual meeting down in San Diego. Lauren as ever has spent quite a bit of time diving into the sea of new oncology targets. Lauren, what did you find?

Lauren Martz: 3:10

Thanks, Jeff. I found a lot this year thanks to some new technologies. We found about 175 new targets that are either new to us at BioCentury completely for any indication or targets that we just haven't seen before for cancer and that have no products against them in the, in the clinic or in preclinical development that we've heard about. The big take homes from this big list. I think were first of all that breast cancer and lung cancer continue to be the focus. That's probably not news to anyone. But then when you go down further into the indications that people are trying to find new targets for, there's a lot of activity in ovarian cancer. There's a lot of activity in colorectal cancer prostate cancer. And behind those was brain cancer, glioblastoma was the, the big focus in the brain cancer category. So um I think when you dig into the types of indications that, that these new targets are applying to there are some interesting bits along the line. There are very few you know, only a handful of new targets for heme cancers, which is probably just based on the nature of this meeting, which is uh a bit more focused on solid tumors. But maybe a bit reflective of the fact that, you know, when you look into all of these targets that are proposed to have immunomodulatory mechanisms, there aren't a lot of sort of T cell function promoting new targets in the mix. And, you know, a lot of the T cell based therapies are for the heme cancers as well. Not a lot of melanoma in, in the mix either, which I thought was interesting. And again, not a lot of checkpoint targets that we're seeing proposed at this conference.

Simone Fishburn: 4:54

Lauren, I think this is super interesting and I'm sure everyone will wanna know what are the new targets? I do wanna ask you a couple of questions. First of all it's AACR, which tends to be a meeting for earlier stage science. So reasonable to assume that most of these are sort of still preclinical in terms of investigation for these targets. And the other thing that sort of bigger picture that I wanted to ask you do you find that they're really bringing new mechanisms into some of these indications that you've talked about? You know, I know that you're segregating them. Can you talk a little bit about the mechanistic kind of categorization that you're going for?

Lauren Martz: 5:35

Sure. So for your first question, these are absolutely preclinical targets. I think BioCentury is good at keeping track of what's moving into the clinic. These are things that we've never heard of before. So these are sort of at a basic science, maybe translational science level, things that institutions and companies are picking out as a potential new target through different types of screening, and then often validated in animal models. But we're not seeing these in the clinic yet. So this is the earliest stage of new targets that are being proposed. And then mechanistically, we are breaking these targets down by sort of functional categories. And as we know, a lot of, you know, any molecular target has lots of different functions in the body and even, you know, within a tumor setting. So our categorization is heavily based on what is proposed in the abstract, and we've also incorporated some external literature based information on how this works in cancer to characterize these in the best way possible based on the new information that we have. The categories, there are a lot of broad categories that aren't that surprising. We have transcriptional regulators and modulators of immune function, epigenetic targets, things like that that we follow throughout the years. Some things that I found interesting as potential, maybe not new, but just sort of trends in mechanisms. One is within that immune category, there are quite a few. That are modulating the tumor microenvironment more than I've seen in the past. So these are, maybe targets that specifically are designed to break down the collagen in the tumor microenvironment. So, so checkpoint inhibitors can work what better or things that can sort of repolarize the immune cells in the tumor microenvironment or um different ways of targeting the fibroblasts there. So that was one category that I've seen tick up over the years. I also saw quite a few, targets involved in ferroptosis, so promoting ferroptosis to kill tumor cells through this iron overload mechanism, which is sort of separate from apoptosis. And um kind of gets around some of those mechanisms that tumors develop to avoid apoptosis. So, not a new idea, but just a cluster of, of um targets that we've seen

Simone Fishburn: 7:56

This is really interesting, Lauren, and you know, we've been writing back about ferroptosis for a while. It's really cool to see, I think sometimes these things go in and out and if there's a, a new wave. So, Lauren on melanoma, which is obviously still a really urgent need, it's not like that's been solved. Do you think that it's sort of a question that there's a lot of good targets out there and these are working their ways through pipelines, maybe the innovations in modalities, or do you just think the field is still working out new biology there?

Lauren Martz: 8:29

That's a really good question and I think there is a lot in clinical development for melanoma. We obviously have the PD-1 inhibitors, which that's sort of their main indication, the most successful indication. But then when you think about the programs that are advancing through the clinic, you've got combinations with PD-1 inhibitors. The CTLA-4 next generation class is a big one that really is driving up efficacy. There are the mRNA cancer vaccines. The, a lot of the immune directed mechanisms are seeking those proof of concept indications in melanoma at this time. So it may be that there are a lot of different ways to. double, maybe, you know, improve on that efficacy that we've seen in the last 10 years from the PD-1 inhibitors. So I think that that probably has something to do with it.

Stephen Hansen: 9:16

Lauren, I, I, I just wanted to ask you a question, because I'm guessing you're not gonna be writing about this in your story, but can you think of, were there any of the new targets that had like, the most fun or cool name? Because like, I always thought like, you know, hedgehog Humalog, like targets like that, that, that were like, I don't know that they were really fun. I didn't know if you'd come any across, any new ones that you could

Jeff Cranmer: 9:37

you're betraying your love of Sonic there, Stephen.

Simone Fishburn: 9:41

I, I don't see why this wouldn't be the headline of Lauren's story, but yes, go ahead Lauren. Tell us.

Lauren Martz: 9:46

Oh, I don't know. Ah, let's see. We have SEAL1 I really um I really like ocean animals, so that's a good one. Um, there were a few, let, let's see, Kindlin-1 always reminds me of um kindling. HORMAD1 one just struck as a strange name. There are, there are a bunch

Jeff Cranmer: 10:07

Shakespearean there.

Lauren Martz: 10:09

yeah, so we'll, we'll have um I think we'll have the whole list that comes out in this story so you

Stephen Hansen: 10:14

may, maybe just a sub paragraph in your story, then could be like your top five, most fun.

Lauren Martz: 10:19

Sure, I'll do that for you Stephen.

Simone Fishburn: 10:20

Actually, I feel like we ought to be able to request things. It's like tell the world of biology when there's like, you know, we, we should have like a, like if you want us to go to Shakespearean, Jeff, like next target's off the list we should all vote in. And then whoever discovers the next target should be like, you know, Orlando and Hamlin.

Jeff Cranmer: 10:36

I, I totally agree. There's all these lists, like top executives, top companies. I, I really think BioCentury should start a top new target. Stephen, do you have an all time favorite?

Stephen Hansen: 10:47

Um, yeah, I mean, like I said, like I just, whatever reason the Hedgehog one really, really spoke to me, really stuck with me. So um but I, it's not, it's actually not a sonic thing. I just, I have a, I have, I have a soft spot for the little uh little spiky, you know, animals that, uh, come and steal our cat's food when we put the cat food outside. So.

Jeff Cranmer: 11:06

It's rough in the U.K. baby, sounds good. Well, I wanna turn now to Pan-RAS inhibition. It has been producing unprecedented survival gains in pancreatic cancer. As well as other RAS mutant tumors. Toxicity, major constraints still. Lauren, you um saw a few companies at AACR proposing a solution to this systemic toxicity. What did you find?

Lauren Martz: 11:36

Yes, so I think going into AACR this year. The Revolution Medicine data was just sort of on everyone's mind. So that was what led to this idea to look at the different ways that you could deliver a Pan-RAS inhibitor and to look at the different ways that companies are delivering Pan-RAS inhibitors. Because as you said, the survival data were, were really impressive for the Revolution Medicine program almost doubled the overall survival. But we do hear about relatively high level of skin toxicity and GI toxicity. And so one of the ways to sort of restrict the activity of toxic, or, you know, more toxic therapies to the tumor site is of course an antibody drug conjugate. So you're using an antibody that's conjugated to a payload, usually, you know, it's cytotoxic chemotherapy that's, that's too toxic to deliver without that targeting element. And then targeting it to the tumor cells through the antibody. So we've seen a little bit of expansion of the ADC idea into targeted therapy payloads instead of those general cytotoxics. And this was an example that, that we've seen come up is Pan-RAS inhibitors as the payload. This wasn't a big set of abstracts at AACR, but it was just an interesting idea and seems like a solution to a problem for what could become a really important class of therapies. we found four companies, six different therapies that are delivering a Pan-RAS inhibitor. Some of those are getting into the dual payload idea where you would deliver the RAS inhibitor with a cytotoxic chemotherapy for more efficacy at the tumor and to overcome some of the resistance. Some of those are dual payloads that would potentially help get more to the, Pancreatic cancer or whatever cancer type would potentially respond to a RAS inhibitor. And yeah, I think that's, that's just the general idea. These are in early stages of development. So it'll be interesting to see how these perform in the clinic if they do help overcome that toxicity, because we do know that ADCs still have some toxic issues 'cause you're still delivering something that's, pretty toxic. And it's not perfectly released in the tumor site. Um, especially with the earlier generation linkers.

Jeff Cranmer: 13:54

All right. Uh, well, you can read Lauren's story on BioCentury.com. I'll drop a link into the show notes. She also took a look at dual payload ADCs emerging at the conference, we published that piece last week. And uh you can also find a link to that in the show notes. We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back. This episode of BioCentury This Week is brought to you by the 3rd BioCentury Grand Rounds in Seattle. Advancing drug development requires more than discovery. It requires the right partners. The 3rd edition of BioCentury Grand Rounds U.S. convenes venture capital, biopharma decision-makers, and academic innovators in Seattle, June 3rd to 5th. This R&D-focused forum brings together leaders at the forefront of translational science to examine the breakthroughs, bottlenecks and strategies shaping the future of drug and diagnostic development and how to make early-stage R&D investible. Discover cutting-edge disease, biology, and platform technologies. Gain insights from emerging biotechs and academic pioneers. Schedule partnering meetings with VCs, pharma, and leading academics who can accelerate your path forward. Grand Rounds U.S. is where rigorous science meets strategic capital and where the right conversations move discovery toward development. Join us in Seattle and discover what's next in biopharma and who's driving it. Secure your spot. Register at BioCenturyGrandRounds.com. We are back on the BioCentury this week podcast. And what do you say, Stephen, another day, another Eli Lilly deal. This time buying Ajax Therapeutics uh taking a gamble there that it's not pronounced like the uh European football side. JAK2 developer in the clinic for Myelofibrosis. Uh, upfront payment is undisclosed biobucks crossing 2 billion. It must be fun to be a Lilly BD person these days. Stephen, what do you say?

Stephen Hansen: 16:08

Well, from the pronunciation side, I was actually thinking about the Iliad Jeff. Not

Jeff Cranmer: 16:12

Oh,

Stephen Hansen: 16:13

the football club. But uh

Jeff Cranmer: 16:15

Greatest,

Stephen Hansen: 16:15

Are those, is that the same pronunciation that the same pronunciation that IX from the Iliad Simone, do you wanna weigh in? Do you think it's IX or Ajax? I

Simone Fishburn: 16:24

Ajax, all the way. Ajax all the way. And as a Brit, I mean, I don't think this is only in the U.K. but isn't there that like bleach, you know? Shouldn't they be, you know,

Jeff Cranmer: 16:34

Oh yeah. Good, good

Simone Fishburn: 16:35

Cleaning? I mean, I feel like now they should pay us 'cause we just advertise their product. But there you go.

Stephen Hansen: 16:41

I was reading a kid's version of the Iliad with my son and I was always pronouncing it IX but maybe I'm just, I've just got that wrong.

Jeff Cranmer: 16:48

I bet your son just thinks you're, you're tough. I, I was, I was gonna use a French term for that as uh our CEO did on our morning call, which inspired me to uh refer to the legendary uh 1896 French play Ubu Roi, which uh I think was lost on some of my colleagues, who would've preferred that I'd make a reference to the Philadelphia Eagles, but I will not,

Stephen Hansen: 17:11

anyways?

Jeff Cranmer: 17:12

at this sensitive moment for Stephen, but uh Ajax.

Stephen Hansen: 17:15

yes.

Jeff Cranmer: 17:15

so what I mean, this. is like their 12th deal of the year, Stephen.

Stephen Hansen: 17:19

It's, yeah, it's, Lilly's definitely been on a shopping spree, haven't they? Um, again, it looks to me that, you know, they've been one of the few pharmas that have been happy to go early and to buy stuff in either early clinical or even preclinical. I think this is getting close to entering the clinic, but I don't think they actually have any clinical data yet. So, so here Ajax has a uh they call a type two confirmation, JAK2 inhibitor. So the idea being that all of the JAK2s that are already approved for myelofibrosis are type one JAK2 inhibitors. And so the idea here is that you might be able to get around. some of the resistance or failed responses to the existing treatments by hitting this other confirmation. So you know, I think it's good for Lilly. I mean, they essentially are a ATM now that's just throwing off cash and so they are trying to diversify and bring in, you know, new assets that can build up the pipeline. And so uh good for them, like you say, it must be nice to have that job.

Jeff Cranmer: 18:18

Yeah.

Simone Fishburn: 18:18

have a few things to weigh in here, Stephen. First of all, yeah, if I had that money, I'd also go early and often. Right? There you go. Now I did wanna ask you something because we, you know, Jeff, you opened this with another Monday. Another deal by Lilly. You know, and there's certainly a lot of chatter about the deal and M&A volume. We've done some of that. The two or three things here, Stephen. So you know, there are a lot of people who are like, well, if you had, if the pace carries on, then this will obviously be one of the greatest all time ever for M&A. But people don't make deals normally sort of, at a specific pace throughout the year, like, I don't know whether it's reasonable to um extrapolate and just to multiply by four, like Q1 deals. So that's one thing. I wanted to know what your thoughts are about If there's anything about this pace in this time of year and what expectations are regarding whether it continues, but the other relates to this Lilly emphasis. I do wonder, you know, how much Lilly is specifically responsible for this, uh, driver. I don't know if we've got that kind of information yet or analysis yet Stephen?,

Stephen Hansen: 19:24

Not yet. I haven't actually gone back to look through, you know, how much of the deals that they've been doing. I just know that I'm seeing them very frequently uh so far towards the start of this year. And you know, just with reference to your, to your prior question as well about sort of the pace of deals. I agree with you that I think it's that you can't really take, a three month, four month window and just say, oh, well, you know, multiply by three or four and that's how much we're gonna have this year. I don't think it works like that. There's very, very much an ebb and flow to this. I do think more generally there's an expectation that M&A will be a consistent theme for the year. Whether we hit an all time number. I mean, obviously it depends on what metric you're using, whether you're using number of deals or amount of, you know, money spent on M&A. If you're doing by amount of money, then you probably will have to have some sort of mega merger to try and tip the scales, you know? But I don't foresee that happening. In general. I, I, I think it will keep up, but I don't see a reason as to think that this will be some, you know, mega M&A year where people are having to buy stuff for some unforeseen reason.

Simone Fishburn: 20:36

so. let me ask you, a different question then from this, You know, this is going to recycle a lot of capital back into the system, I'm assuming, right? And so, what does that mean? You know, do you think we'll look back on this year, like where is that capital gonna go? How are we gonna see the benefits of this? It feels to me like we went through, okay, so there's a pandemic, boom. Then we went through a long and brutal, you know uh winter, let's say biotech, winter. The companies that survived, some of them managed to move things along, and now maybe some of those are reaping the rewards with these you know, exits or sales. That money is now getting recycled back, I hope. What, what are your views on what this means going forward?

Stephen Hansen: 21:19

Well, what, what I think is sort of interesting now, what we're seeing sort of in the last, sort of this year versus maybe what we saw last year is I think there's actually a good mix of both private and public takeouts, which is good for both sides of that ledger then. Right. Because most times, you know, if it's just public companies being taken out, oftentimes VCs have already gotten out by, you know, the time they're being taken out, unless for some reason they've held onto a stake. But usually they're out, within a year or so after a company's public. And so they're not really seeing any of the benefits. You know, they saw the benefit of the IPO assuming that the IPO, did okay. But I think what's nice here is that you're getting quick returns for both VCs and then you're also getting capital flowing back into the public specialist funds, which then will immediately be recycled back into new companies, right? They'll be looking for new names to invest that capital into. So I think it's good for both sides, for both the early and the later stage biotechs in that this you know, helps the VCs get a better track record, get better returns, which then allows 'em to raise their next fund. And so it kind of keeps that capital cycle chugging along, I think. And so that's, that's what I think is quite good about uh kinda what we're seeing right now.

Jeff Cranmer: 22:30

All right, and a couple of other deals out today. the biggest India's Sun Pharmaceuticals is buying Organon a spin out of Merck, for about $12 billion. Organon uh obviously a global leader in women's health. Company has a broad portfolio of 70 products and it's in about 140 countries. It's also a very big biosimilars player. This deal according to Sun, makes it a top 25 global pharma, and it also makes it a top 10 global biosimilars company. Among other deals we had two companies who are uh actually older than BioCentury. No small thing, given that we're now over 30 years old, Ligand buying Xoma couple of royalty plays there. It's about a $700 million deal. And BeOne, the company formerly known as BeiGene, is taking an option to a trispecific PD-1, CTLA-4, VEGF-A molecule from Chinese player Huawei that will result if selected in a hundred million dollars exercise and oodles of milestones. Alright, Stephen uh you're just back from London. I know you were on a panel down there. one of the things you were talking about is state of. venture fundraising. this comes as Kurma which is a very active biotech venture investor, has just raised a new fund. What do you think, Stephen?

Stephen Hansen: 24:14

I want to get the good news all up front, I guess, and be, be very upfront about it. So this was great. This was great for Kurma. This is their fourth fund that they've raised. Their early stage fund, kind of their flagship fund. so they announced last week they raised 215 million euros which is about 35% bigger than their prior fund. So it's great to see them raising a new fund, raising a bigger fund so they can do more company creation, more early stage investments. Good news for European biotechs,'cause they focus I think about 80% of their capital is, is, you know, targeted at European investments. But I just thought it was interesting that sort of in the context, so I was chairing a panel. I was an investment panel at the Anglonordic conference in London last week. And one of the topics of discussion was about this observation that some of the investors made that there had been this shift towards. VCs basically shifting towards putting their money into clinical companies and clinical candidates that they don't want to invest in preclinical companies. And one of the questions raised was, oh, is this a, you know, who's left to invest in early stage companies then if everyone's investing in the clinic? And so we had this discussion about, what were the drivers of that? And you know, one of the things that was raised was, LPs, you know, when they're looking at funds, in this sort of a markets, in this market sort of environment, they want to have shorter hold times. Meaning that you need to have, basically you have to invest in a clinical company because that's closer to where your exit potentially is because you probably need to be in the clinic right now if you're gonna do an IPO and you probably need to have clinical data if you're gonna get acquired by a pharma. And you know, if you look at our data, our data very much point to M&A. I think that when I was looking up over the past five years for M&A, just for private biopharmas only about 13% of those deals were preclinical. So the vast majority are clinical stage or later. The point they were just making, was that, can be a bit tougher to build a syndicate now, and it's a bit tougher to raise a, an early stage fund because you just have all these dynamics at play. And the Kurma deal seems to kind of be a, it's a current example of those dynamics and, and how they happen. So in speaking to the team at Kurma, one of the points they made was, yeah, we were super happy, you know, this is a good size fund for what we want to do. But what we found during that fundraising process was, this is an easy sell to strategics, to corporates, to specialist funds. You know, that have a, a solid interest in, in, in the biopharma space. But it was a hard sell to a generalist institutional investor that are looking to bring as an LP, like, just because there are all these other funds that are doing clinical stuff. And so even if they were gonna look for exposure and healthcare, there are other places where they thought they could more quickly get a return than in an early stage fund. So they said that was, that was hard. And Kurma had targeted, raising 250 million euros. And so they actually didn't get to their target. Again, still raised a good size fund, but it wasn't as much as they were, they were hoping for. So to me it just was sort of like, I guess an example of how the dynamics are kind of playing out in this early stage, you know, fundraising setting.

Jeff Cranmer: 27:19

Yeah, in interesting stuff. Stephen, looking forward to your piece on what Kurma is up to. we'll have that out for you this week. Emerging company profiles. This is a series that we've been running for many, many years now where we take a look at a private recently launched company working in an innovative space the latest installment. Stephen who did you pick to write about?

Stephen Hansen: 27:46

Yeah. So so my most recent one was about company a Elevara Medicines Limited based here in the U.K. in London, led by CEO Emma Tinsley. Who I believe will be potentially presenting at one of our Grand Rounds conferences coming up. And I, yeah, so, So they are uh they're actually a, you know, kind of fit this new co model. they in-licensed their program from Teijin Pharma in Japan. And got a pretty good syndicate Forbion Sofinnova Partners, Monograph Capital, I think, was the founding investor that put in 70 million into a series A round. And so this is a a target that probably most people will be familiar with, but as a, as a cancer target. CDK4/6. Which is used as a cell cycle regulator in breast cancer, but they're actually developing this for rheumatoid arthritis. And so I found that quite intriguing. And essentially the um what they found is that CDK4/6 inhibitors while not only having the effect in cancer, they also are able to basically stop signaling for synovial sites in joints, which are one of the drivers of joint damage in RA. So it's sort of a non-immune cell mediated mechanism. Basically they've got a wider therapeutic, they think they have a wider therapeutic window than the marketed CDK4/6 inhibitors used for cancer, which is why they think that they can make it work here. And so they've basically gonna be running a Phase IIB study to try and test that hypothesis and see if they've got something that can be sort of orthogonal to sort of the TNFs that are sort of the primarily ones used uh in, in RA. So I think it's an interesting, interesting story.

Jeff Cranmer: 29:23

All right. Thank you for that, Stephen, it's good piece. and, and certainly good news for RA patients. If this makes it to the finish line. Well that's it for our show this week. Thank you for tuning in. Thank you to Kendall Square Orchestra for making the music for both of BioCentury's podcast. We'll have our sister podcast later this week with the CEO of Syncona, Chris Hollowood in conversation with Simone. Chris always interested to hear from, especially on the eve of Bio€quity Europe. Until next week I'm Jeff Cranmer, host of the BioCentury This Week podcast. We'll catch you next week. BioCentury would like to thank IQVIA Biotech for supporting the BioCentury This Week podcast. To learn more about how IQVIA Biotech’s dedicated teams deliver support from innovation to impact, visit IQVIABiotech.com