The Extremely Successful Sales Club
The Extremely Successful Sales Club
Simon Hares: Trust, Pricing, and the Power of Video Communication.
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This week, my guest on the Extremely Successful Sales Club podcast is the fabulous Simon Hares, who is recognised by LinkedIn as a top voice in all things sales and sales management.
You're going to love this episode, where - amongst (many) other things - Simon tackles the common misconceptions about pricing and trust in sales - sharing his wisdom on maintaining firm pricing to convey true value, while highlighting the timeless importance of trust and personal connections.
We discuss how to steer clear of fleeting sales fads and embrace the enduring principles that keep human connections at the heart of successful sales, even as AI continues to rise.
He also challenges the status quo about the role of sales leadership post training – and how they need to pick up the baton beyond the training sessions - ensuring that concepts are put into practice through continuous coaching and team support.
And wait until you get to his opinions regarding innovation – just brilliant - as he explains the role of video messaging in modern sales strategies.
And you’ll learn how a simple shift to video communication can enhance client engagement and create personal connections that traditional methods might miss.
From effective follow-up techniques to creating a respected company culture, this episode is packed with insights and actionable advice to elevate your sales game.
Join us as we celebrate the art of prospecting and the joy of nurturing sales team talent – all while maintaining a consistent content strategy that keeps you ahead in the sales game.
To Your success,
Chris Murray
Welcome to the Extremely Successful Sales Club. If you would please be so kind as to sign the visitor's book and then take your seat. Our podcast is about to begin. Ladies and gentlemen, may I introduce your host, mr Chris Murray.
Speaker 2Hello, wherever you are right now. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. My name is Chris Murray and I am delighted to welcome you to the Extremely Successful Sales Club podcast, and what a show we have for you today. My guest is recognized by LinkedIn as not only a top voice regards to all things sales, but has also been awarded a sales management top voice just for good measure. He works with sales teams across Europe, the USA and Australia and, to quote one of his recent clients, I don't think there's anyone quite like Simon on the face of the earth. His unique style is gripping and his ability to relay concepts and ideas is really impressive. I don't think it's physically possible to be bored or uninterested in any course that he's running. So, without further ado, let me introduce you to the man whose business ethos is getting you there faster and leaving you there better. Ladies and gentlemen, I am delighted to welcome to the show the wonderful Mr Simon Hayes. Hello, sir.
Speaker 3Hello, hello, hello, welcome. Well, that bribe paid off, didn't?
Speaker 2it do you know? It didn't take much digging to find out people who actually love your work. My friend, it was just. It was wonderful to read when we were searching for this particular show is, before we get going, tell the um, the audience, a wee bit about yourself, sir well, my name is simon harris, obviously, and I run a business with my husband called Serial Trainer 7.
Speaker 3We're based here in Bath. Very rarely here, I'm traveling all over the place planes, trains and automobiles, all of those things. The business has been going for around 11 years. I've been in sales for 35 years plus. The hair will tell you not, there we are, and the business focuses on two main pillars. Really. It focuses on sales and business development and then on the other side, management and leadership and then, if you think of that as two pillars, everything that crisscross is like a dne helix. You've got all the soft skills that go in there as well. So we focus on those particular areas, but predominantly in the business it is management and leadership and sales, without a doubt is it in that order?
Speaker 2is it? Is it sort of like sales and leadership foremost and then sales as well?
Speaker 3or is it no? Sales foremost, and then it's the management side afterwards. You tend to find that when you're working with sales people, you do get introduced to the sales manager and then what they want to do is to find out you know any tips and techniques on managing salespeople. And then the snowball starts to build, especially around you know, post-training, when ultimately the manager is looking to make sure that the training has landed, that people are going to use it, the training has landed, that people are going to use it. But then there's that missing link where actually they have to realize that they've got to manage the training into the sales team. It's you know, it's not the sales trainers role to manage those people moving forward. We leave that footprint, that echo there with them, but at the end of the day they're the ones who've got to pick up the threads and do the old.
Speaker 3You know what did? What did you learn? What did you take away? What did you struggle with? What do you want to learn more on? And then to manage that in real time through management, coaching, side by side, listening to calls and visits, that type of thing. So it's not about, you know, sending people on a sales training course, popping them in the sales training oven and out pops this sales cookie if you will. It's not going to happen. It doesn't happen that way, so I guess-.
Speaker 2A lot of sales leaders, yeah, so a lot of sales leaders see it as sort of like dropping the kids off at nursery and picking them up. They're just yours now and then I hope they're perfect when they come out, kind of thing. How do you manage that expectation for sales leaders?
Speaker 3Because they really, you know, on the whole, are hoping that you're going to take them away for for a day or two days and when they come out all their problems will be solved you know, you have to, you have to say to that's, that's not what it is, and I tend to be the type of person that puts that in front of them before they say it to me. Okay, so that during part of a consultation process. You know, this isn't just a nice day out. I'm not their dad, I'm not their best friend. They already have those in their life. I am there to train them and it's about the results. I'll give them a great experience. There won't be any role plays, you know, because everyone sits there in dread. We've had that conversation off before. Absolutely share that opinion, absolutely there's none of that.
Speaker 3There's definitely no PowerPoint either. I never use PowerPoint when I'm training either. It's all about the quality of the discussion, their experience that they bring to the training and then interlacing their comments with techniques and skills that they can then take away. Because really and truly and a lot of trainers can often forget this the magic of training and the real value of training is what the delegates bring to the training. It's not what you bring. You bring your own agenda as to what you want to go through, but if you're really rigid and you stick to that agenda, you're going to end up saying things to delegates like this oh I'm sorry, we haven't got time to go through that, or there isn't time on this particular course to cover that. And immediately what you have done is you have shut the door on that individual who's brought something up that they felt was valid and valuable to them. So that's why we have to go off piste. So when we talk to people about the overall agenda as to what we're going to cover, it is important for them to know that ultimately we will go off piste. We will go off subject a little bit, because the value is in what they bring and if we give people permission to be able to do that during the training, then we're a bit like a sat-nav. If you will, you know you pop in your destination and you go. But if you want to get off the motorway and go and have lunch somewhere and go and look at an event over here, you can, as long as you get to where you're going to go. So that's kind of how we do it.
Speaker 3But if you think about that technique I mentioned just then just segwaying slightly, where you put something in front of someone before they say it to you, do you know? It's a fantastic objection, predictor and handler. And I tend to find that when I'm talking to people and I've done this for a long time is that, if I know that cost is going to be an objection that I'm going to get and I think that people are buying on price, one of the things I do to mitigate it is, I'll say to them so let's think about investment and costs for the training that you're looking at. And you might be thinking that training is going to be expensive and it is quite dear, but the reality is you're right, training is expensive. It does require significant investment. So let's have a talk about what you're doing and what you think and you know what you don't get the it's too expensive objection because you've already told them it's going to be expensive.
Speaker 3It's a bit like the objection is the wrong time of year. If you tell them at the beginning there's never a good time to run training courses there, guess what They'll never give you. It's the wrong time of year. So if you put it in front and you front load the objection, sometimes you can get some real magic happen and it means you've got to be a little bit brave to do it. Because you may not like the answer, but I'll tell you what it shows the level of confidence, assertiveness and understanding in the market. So predicting these objections is really good.
Speaker 2Sort of by naming the problem, but you're pretty much taking the power away from it, don't you?
Speaker 3But then I suppose in another way you're also giving them the power as well, aren't you? Because you're actually acknowledging something that maybe they're frightened to talk about or a bit nervous to talk about. Because often when the client then starts to talk and wants to talk about money, they start to build it up in their mind a little bit. And wants to talk about money? They start to build it up in their mind a little bit, especially if they're not a professional buyer or they're not used to salespeople. So maybe if you're selling to people in central services who don't like sales people don't like sales they then bring it up by saying I suppose we should talk about cost. And they do it in that way where they tip their head slightly on one side and you want to be able to say to them do you know what? It's okay to talk about money, it's absolutely fine, I'm fine with it, you're fine with it.
Speaker 3But if we think back to our childhood, chris, you know, as kids we're always taught don't talk about money, don't ask how much something costs, because it's rude and vulgar. And guess what, as we get older, we take that through as a limiting belief into sales and it's one of the reasons why sales call reluctance happens. You know, out there in industry, where people won't get on the phone or they won't talk about money and they won't qualify, you know we're also told things like don't talk to strangers. You know well it, you know, for the fear of being, you know, chopped up in the back of a Capri or a Ford Escort, whatever. Show me age, sharon, I could be back from a Mondeo or a Range Rover, maybe.
Speaker 2I think we've just lost the Capri audience.
Building Trust and Value in Sales
Speaker 3Yeah, yeah, had a very, very long bonnet, couldn't sit down in front of it. A lot of front impact. It's an amazing car, but when we start to think about what happens if we take we don't talk to strangers into our adult life, well, is it any wonder that sales people won't make cold calls or won't talk to people in prospect because they're frightened of being rejected? In her, and it comes from that limiting belief. When we study call reluctance, we can see these limiting beliefs that are coming out all the time. So it's a fascinating subject I love it Absolutely.
Speaker 2And going back to that, don't talk about money. As a child, I always think that the desperate need to discount comes from the same sort of place, because when you're growing up, you can see that only important people can give money away, and so you think that being able to give money away must make you important. And I see a lot of salespeople who think that it's actually it's demeaning not to be allowed to give money away because you're making me look like I'm not important, when actually it's that belief system that's driving it. You know.
Speaker 3It's bonkers, isn't't it? The whole discounting thing? I can't remember the name. What was the name of the famous queen who said let them eat cake? That was marianne tonel, wasn't it marianne tonel? Because she was played by helen mirren, I remember, and there was a quote in that film and she they talk about giving money away and she says very directly how on earth do you think rich people get rich by giving it away? And you, you know it's. It's the same thing in sales. You know, just because you have permission to discount doesn't mean you should. You know it doesn't mean you have to do it, and if you can hold your value and actually stand your ground on cost. The funny thing is it's amazing how many people who just go oh, okay, then, and that's the price, yeah, and you know all this nonsense about. You know, do you give people a new client discount, shut up, why would I do that? What I'm saying? That the price that you pay in the product you get is less than the people who are paying the full price from what?
Speaker 2no, stop it yeah, but people wouldn't do it with things like 20 or 10 pound notes because you know that they know that's worth 20 pounds. If you ask them to sell you a 20 pound note for 1990, they'll go no, it's worth 20 pounds, but they the belief system isn't quite there for their own product or service or offering, is it? That's the?
Speaker 3problem. Well, the thing is, if you, if you look into it as well often you get sales people who are quoting prices that they genuinely believe are a lot of money. They're looking at thinking, oh my goodness, I'm quoting 15, 20 000 pounds or 60 000 pounds or 100 000 pounds and for that individual it can be the representation of a month's salary, a year's salary, 10 years salary, and what's the lot of money to them, to the buyer, is a drop in the ocean could be, especially if it's up to a you know a marketing budget and you're sat there quoting you know 100 grand for something and their marketing budget is 2 million and you think actually I've underquoted. So I remember seeing somebody saying once that if when you quote a price they turn around and they go oh yeah, that sounds about right You've actually underquoted.
Speaker 3But if they, if you quote them a price and they go, mm, hmm, you're probably bang on. You know you got to read the room on those, but I think that was james white actually, who said, yeah, yeah, he's really, he's really great. I saw some stuff on. I think it was one of his videos.
Speaker 2I saw that on and then when I was thinking about the whole body language thing, I was thinking, god, that's so true, what what, what would you say then, with all that in mind, then, with regards to your foundations, fundamentals, because I, because I'm big on having the foundation stones in place rather than you know, foundations rather than fads I always think and there's a lot of fads in and out that that some people mistake when I, when I make that, when I, when I make that statement, that I'm, that I'm poo-pooing new, brilliant sort of like tech and ideas. I'm not. I just know that what was being written about in 1910 is the same thing that's working in in, you know, 2024. It's just, it's just the way of implementing it's changing. So, your foundations, your fundamentals, what, what do you base your stuff on?
Speaker 3well when we start to think about fads and things as well. Just to pick up on that, before I do that, you know there's lots of different fads that are out there. My personal pet hate is disruptive cold calling techniques where you hear people that will say, hi, my name's simon from serial trainer 7. And this is cold call. Do you fancy rolling the dice? I mean, stop that. Or they say, hi, my name is simon from serial trainer 7. I'm just letting you know this is a cold cord. You fancy hanging up? What are you doing? You know, I mean, seriously. It's just there are people out there that say that that have rung me and done this and it's like who does your training?
Speaker 2I could probably tell you actually yeah, so could I.
Speaker 3It's just such a it's. It's such a pile of that word. It really is, because remember that we say we proudly pound our chest, don't we? And we say that people buy people. We've always said it and it's it will stand time in memoriam. So when you start to think about ai coming in, that's not people buying people, that's buying people buying tech. You know, the people element of sales is so important and sales people have a gift that other people who are not in sales don't have, and that's the ability to get people to part with their money in exchange for something of benefit and value, and that's what we should be focused on. So let's think about those philosophies.
Speaker 3I was trained in these years and years and years ago and I stood by them because they're true. Number one yes, people buy from people, but they buy from people who they trust, they like and they believe in. It's about building that trust, that relationship between credibility, consistency, reliability, intimacy, vulnerability. It's those things it's about creating that rapport. That rapport can be emotional, where we actually go away going actually quite like each other, or it could be technically maybe I walk away going you're not my cup of tea, but you could really make a difference to my business. So we've got that liking thing going on and we've got to be able to back up what we're saying. We've got to be able to create that. So I believe that people buy from people they trust, like and believe in.
Speaker 3I believe that they will buy from people who will help either make some money, save money or reduce their risk, rather than just taking money off of them. You know, some companies are very driven by making money. Other people don't realize that by buying a product you can actually save money long term. For example, if a recruitment agency finds the right candidate, you're going to lower your turnover and you're going to lower your recruitment costs by having great people and a great recruiter. And then you've got the reduction of risk. Some people will use a marketing agency or a digital agency to reduce the risk of wasting marketing spend on advertising. So they might use a PPC agency or they might use an SEO agency. Which have you?
Speaker 3And ultimately, the only way that we can actually do any of these things is our third philosophy, which is to ultimately think like a buyer, and I was taught that many years ago by a guy called Andrew Milbourne who was the sales director, where we were one of the most inspirational leaders I've ever met. And the minute you start to put yourself into the other person's shoes, you really will make a real difference. And I think there's that old kind of Buddhist saying that says, before you can walk in someone else's shoes, you must first take off your own. So therefore, you know you have to think like the person on the other end of the, around the other side of the desk. When I think about selling to HR directors, you know what am I thinking about when I'm talking to them? Managing performance, how is that going to be done? How are managers having challenging conversations, or decent conversations, with their members of staff, with their sales teams? How can I make that HR director's role much easier? By delivering great skills that are relatable and manageable and deliver results? So it is about thinking like that person. You know, how can I sell to a sales director? Well, it's about making their life easier, because you've got to focus on results, make them look good, collaborate, be their partner. Don't just think you're just going to come and deliver and disappear. Be a friend to the business.
Speaker 3And as part of that, it's serial trainer seven. One of the things that we do is we always offer complimentary support for anyone who's been through our training, and that's not something we charge for, it is complimentary. Anyone at any time throughout their career, as long as they've got breast in their lungs, can get in touch and say do you remember you trained me on this? I've got a question around that. Would you help? Of course, happy to. And another thing I was trained on years ago by a guy was to leave an echo, and I've mentioned echoes. You know, leave an echo because it always comes back and you leave that people remember. You know the BBC did a campaign years ago. Do you remember the best teacher you ever had? We all remember that. We all remember the trainer, the leader, the person who made a biggest impact on our career. Let's do more of that and create more of what can come back by leaving something of value.
Speaker 2I remember you saying you're quite happy for to for people to pass on what you have passed on to them, because that creates an even further echo.
Speaker 3Yeah, well, without a doubt, without a doubt, I, I, I just think, just just pass it on. Why would you? Why would you keep it? If you can make another person great, then that that's good, isn't it? It is, you know, as trainers, it's.
Effective Sales Strategies and Follow-Up
Speaker 2It's never about us, never no, and and same sales directors. I remember I used to have one boss who was particularly upset that we got people to be so good at what they were doing that they would eventually outgrow us and move on, and we just couldn't accommodate, you know, the company just couldn't accommodate the number of people who were becoming fabulous and which made me really proud. But it really upset him because, you know it was, we're losing good people. But eventually, you know, I, I, I loved the fact that we were seeding the industry with, with one. Yeah, you know, it made me really proud.
Speaker 3Well, yeah, I mean think, think about that for a second, because actually, if we look at a different take on that, if you're getting people to reach a glass ceiling where they can't go anymore and they're doing really, really great things and they're leaving you to develop their career forward, well doesn't that mean that you're not only a great business to go to, but you're actually a great business to have come from? What's wrong with that?
Speaker 3What's wrong with reaching the pinnacle where suddenly your industry is looking at you as a potential poach opportunity. Because if your people are being poached, you can get quite grumpy about it if you want to, or you can turn around and think we must be doing something right. But you know, I think everyone, especially in today's world, you know, managers often are frightened of employing people that are better than them, and I, in our management and leadership development, we fully encourage you to employ people who are better than you, because all right, so what If they come to you and they give you two amazing years? Isn't two amazing years better than 20 years of mediocrity?
Speaker 3I mean seriously, you know people don't stay in jobs like they used to. Who wants to stay in the same place forever? Anyway, we should be encouraging people to spread their wings and develop them and give them the best experience so that maybe they put it on glass door, whatever you think of that, whatever but they go away, they have a great experience and then maybe they come back again. Yeah, maybe they come back, because isn't the old saying if you love something, you let it go, and if it loves you, it, you know it will come, come back. But if it doesn't, and it never did.
Speaker 2That's wonderful. So what, in your opinion, do you think salespeople should be doing right now? That they really aren't, that we should be seeing more of that. With all your experience going around the world, you see the problems that they're causing themselves, or the problems they're coming up against. The problems that they're causing themselves, or the problems they're coming up against. What do you think if we were going to share something with salespeople today that they should be doing more of because it's the right thing to do, what would that be in your eyes?
Speaker 3There is a reticence out there at the moment around prospecting and cold calling, new business generation. There is so much that outreach there is a definite reticence to it. We know that sales people fall into two camps hunters and farmers. Do you know what? There's a lot of farmers who are not even generating additional revenue. You've got account managers out there that are just glorified customer service people. You put a sales target on their back to. You know, take them. Well, you've got that client. How much of their marketing spend let's say it's advertising account manager how much of their advertising spend have we grown every single year? How's our market share growing? What are you doing to do that? Or are you just being a customer service rep? You know we want sales people to sell and managers do a great job of giving them things that get in the way, such as as admin and stuff like that. Let's cut through all of that and get them selling is why we get into that role. And if you've got people who don't want to go into prospecting they don't want to be cold calling, you know then they call it cold calling, warm calling. All of this stuff is Benjamin Denner. He says the temperature's all in your head. It really is. They're just people make a friend and we need to be able to see people doing this. And you know what? There's something else that's happening as a direct result as well, and that's the lack of follow-up. You'll get people who make the cold calls but then, for some reason, following up feels like we're being pushy and we're interrupting people. Yeah, you're damn right, you're interrupting people. They're not just sat waiting for your call.
Speaker 3And, as I said the other day, I put a video on LinkedIn. I pitched a client and I found out that I was up against five other sales trainers and I have a 14 contact rule. I will contact you 14 times in as many different ways as I can video, whatsapp, you name it, I'll do it. And this was the fifth contact with this particular client. And when I called them again to follow up, the buyer said to me we were just actually about to call you, simon, because to say, yeah, we're really, really happy to work with you and we want to move forward with you. And I was like, yeah, here's my happy dance.
Speaker 3But then I always ask the question what was it that got me over the line? Mm, hmm, and here's the real kicker. They said well, out of the five trainers that we originally spoke to, you've been the only one that's followed up. Wow, and I said isn't that ironic that these people are sales trainers and they haven't followed up? Is their attitude going to be well, if they want it, they'll come back to me. No, if you really want it, you're going to go after it, because aren't you sending out some, you know, signal that says that, says I don't really want to work with you, or I can't really be bothered, or I don't care about you? I want our customers to know that I deserve their money, that I want to work with them. I care about them enough to do that and follow up.
Speaker 2And you don't want to put your sales team in front of someone who whose ethos isn't one like yours. I mean, if you put them in front of a sales trainer who can't be bothered to do the job they're supposed to be sharing or the skill set they're supposed to be sharing, why would you put them in front of?
Speaker 3yourself. Don't even get me started. Here's the, here's the one, here's the one I really really love. I love this one. I've had it so many times over the years, in the 11 years of running this business, and I honestly it's brilliant, it's my favorite.
Speaker 3This is the client that says to you can you come? We want, we've got a specific problem about our sales team right now. And you go oh okay, tell me what that is. They go margins, they're not reaching margins, they're discounting too much. You know we've got people that are paying tiny amount of money and expecting the world we need our margins to go up. And you go yep, definitely I can train them on how to hold their value, the conversations, all those things. And then when they start talking about budget and you start talking to them about cost, they go a little bit further away. What sort of discounts do you have? Yeah, hang on a minute. So you want me to train your people in one thing but do something else? Isn't that do as I say? Not as I do? Because why would you hire a sales trainer who does the very thing that you want them to train your people not to do?
Speaker 2I feel the same way. And and how could you stand in the room doing your job with that person at the back of the room knowing that everything you're saying is a lie?
Speaker 3it is just bonkers, it really, really is and it drives me nuts. So this kind of what sales people aren't doing right now is the outreach, the cold calling, the prospecting, call it what you want is the same thing, and I know it's the equivalent of leg day at the gym. No one wants to do it, but we have to keep doing it because and as I said to a firm the other day, if you think about a circle and that circle represents your client universe If you were to just lose one client, does that really matter, just losing one? Now, funnily enough, in one firm I worked with, the person there said to me yeah, no, it wouldn't make any difference. One client's not going to make a difference. We've got loads To which I said what happens if that one client is one of your biggest spending clients? How are you going to replace that? Secondly, what happens if that one client is one of your biggest spending clients? How are you going to replace that? Secondly, what happens if that client is not necessarily your biggest spending, but they give you the largest amount of volume? Or what happens if that one client is one of your biggest referral sources? What are you going to do then? How are you going to replace that? You've got to go out and do it. You've got to go out and network. You've got to go out and reach the marketplace and if you're not doing that, then ultimately you know you're not doing anything.
Embracing Video Messaging in Sales
Speaker 3You know, years ago I saw Grant Cardone speak. You know the old 10x guy, all of this stuff, amazing salesperson. But he very famously said people don't buy the best products, they buy the best known products. And he very famously held up his coffee cup, which was a Starbucks cup, and he took a sip and he went see, not necessarily the best, but the best known. And it made me realize that actually, this constant cold outreach, this constant pushing your message through LinkedIn, doing all of those things you know, makes you the best known. So even if you are the best at what you do and the best known, then double whammy. But you've got to get that opportunity to speak to people, otherwise, you know, it's like if a, you know, if a tree falls down in the woods and no one's there to hear it, does it make any noise? No, not any noise.
Speaker 2That matters anyway. Absolutely no noise that matters. So backtrack there a little bit. If people are cold calling and you said you're dead against the pattern disruption techniques, what's your go to advice for sales people then? Because they have to get on the phone and do it. You know what they do.
Speaker 3It's really important that one of the one of the things that I think is so important is you should always engage as a friend when you're talking to people on the phone and you should be respectful of what they're doing. Now, many people don't like this concept of asking permission, and yet sometimes it's down to basic manners to be able to say to someone would it be okay to speak to you for a second, I want to talk to you about this. I want to talk to you about that. Basic manners goes a long way, instead of just saying hi, my name is, I'm calling from and you need to do this, this and this. I think that permission piece is really important. I think linguistically as well. We've got to be aware that we have to create parity in our opening statements as well, so people need to know that we operate within their sphere, if you will. So the word because is really powerful within your sector, maybe your competitors and we wanted to be able to talk to you about how we've made a difference to their business. We've got testimonials to back it up. You can talk to them and I'd love to be able to just spare some time to be able to find some time for you and then even just to give them, you know what I call a get out of jail free card, where basically you have something to give them, just something that's you know to say to them. So, even if by the end of the call there's nothing more in it for me, I'd love to be able to share with you some information around training right now, some revolutions that are going on in there, some things that would actually help inform your decision making moving forward, or you might feel interested and that whole kind of Caldini's rule of influence reciprocation comes in. So I suppose ultimately it's about engage as a friend to begin with. Think about the permissions that people expect, ask permission and then use the because statement. I'm calling you today because I work with and I wanted to take that and then try and give a get out of jail free statement as well. I want to give you this at the end of it, I'd love to take your email. I can send this and by doing that you tee everything up for success.
Speaker 3But it's not guaranteed. Nothing's guaranteed. They can always say no, and I think that's the thing with a lot of. You know with training that we have people go oh, this will definitely work. That definitely works. No, it doesn't. Not everything does. We're dealing with individuals, so it is about having some guidelines. Try it, see if it works. If it doesn't, it's a bit like people using video messaging. I use video messaging all the time and yet there's such a reticence here by people who say, oh, my customers would never like that, my people would never like that. Well, my answer is have you tried it? Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3Very recently I was talking about using video messaging to someone and it was a group of people in a room and this one lady looked up and she said I received a video message from someone the other day and we did. She said. She said it really took me back and she got a little bit kind of shocked and horrified. You said it really took me back and I didn't like it because it was really in my face. And she went on about how she really hated it and I let her finish and then I said to her so how many people have you told about this experience you've had with a video message? Then and she said loads of people. I said, well, that's really good, isn't it? Because that shows it worked. She said, but I really hated it. I said, yeah, but it worked. I said let me just ask you a very quick question because I am intrigued Did you actually reply to them? And she said, yeah, I did. I said to them that I didn't like it, so you replied. So it got a reply.
Speaker 3Your inbox and you look at your LinkedIn inbox and you look at any message center, it is populated with text. If you've got a voice note and you might leave a voice note because maybe you think you've got a face for radio Most people haven't it's fine. But if you're the type of person who's on Instagram putting your filters on and your little TikTok videos of you dancing, my goodness, you can actually do some great stuff with videos. So get over yourself and do it. It's very personal and, as I've always said, what takes you 10 minutes to write in an email takes 30 seconds to say in a video. It's very personal, works like a charm. Platforms like Vidyard my personal favorite really really good. You know, linkedin has it and WhatsApp can do it. Do it, you know, just try these different things. If they don't work for you, they don't work for you, but you've got to keep going a previous guest, when we were talking on this podcast, was talking to me about video calls.
Speaker 2Made the point because you mentioned about the the face for radio, though, because it's. It's the nervousness about leaving something forever, isn't it? But? But nobody walks into one-to-one meetings in offices with boxes on the heads, do they? No, of course it's the same head.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean some people maybe should, but you know, maybe it may be duct tape, who knows? But you know there there is. You know we do have to engage people. You know, and I just think my my go-to answer to everything because I put video on linkedin. You know there's one up about sales recruitment this morning, but my answer to everything on this is look, if I can do it, you can do it. And if you think about video with me, I'm 50 plus years old. I've got the campus south first voice anyone could ever wish to have got no hair. You know what does it matter?
Speaker 2I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say what are you gonna get to the things that are actually a negative there?
Speaker 3I just, you know all these things that you know we have imposter syndrome about or we worry about our confidence. You know we've all been there. But when you start doing it and when I started doing it, I you know I had the same insecurities but I thought, you know, I don't care, let's just do it when it starts getting responses where people turn around and say to you I really liked that, that was very personal, nice touch, nice way to connect.
Speaker 2And then you start getting things where people say to you when you ask them, what was it that got me over the line with the business, and they go, it was the video message where you just had to sit, that, because it was so personal, you just go, yeah, that's fine, but you have that great personality that comes across and and and when it sits there on a video message, it's it's always you and it's wonderful, I think, if, if you're 23, 24, starting out in in sales and you're sitting there and you've never been filmed in that kind of capacity before and you you haven't got, you know, three hours of of of wonderful information to share before you even draw breath. It's like I don't know. Young men and young women are sitting out there at the moment, sort of like going. I'd love to do it, but I just don't look like I belong in that space. I, yeah, I get it, I get it, but I just don't look like I belong in that space. Yeah, I get it, I get it.
Speaker 3Well, you just gotta keep practicing. I've worked, I've done training with sales teams where I've just said to them just get, just do it now, send something now and they'll, they'll go. Oh, but I need to redo it. I need to redo it. It's got to be perfect and it's like no, it doesn't. We live in a world today where people are. It's a more inclusive, accepting, belonging society we live in. If you trip over your words, don't worry about it. Come across as you, come across as authentic. There's nothing wrong with that. People would much prefer that than this. You know, if you're polished, that's great. But you know what, if you're not? Well, that's great too.
Speaker 2What a wonderful statement. I honestly thought you're going to go in a different direction, that in this age of everybody being being able to buffer up and improve everything, you know that everybody's so used to looking at perfection. That that's what is putting people off. And you went the completely different way, though you caught me out yeah, no, let's just.
Speaker 3Let's just. Let's just see people as they are and let, because we are dealing with people every there is enough in this world. There is enough body shaming, personality shaming. There is so much. And it's no wonder we live in a world where people say, oh, you know, you know, younger people, are this younger people that they're entitled to something? I have no idea what it is. I work with a lot of younger people. I have no idea what they're supposed to be entitled to At the end of the day. You know, we're just people. And is it any wonder, with all this going on, that people say that they're not as resilient? You know we need to be able to give people the opportunity to realize that failure is okay, it's all right. You know, it doesn't matter, no one is dying here. We're talking about sales. Let's just go out, try something if you don't like it, but you feel that you could do it again, give it another go. If it doesn't work, then and you feel you can move on, try again, it doesn't matter, it really doesn't.
Speaker 2So yeah, just do it. It's fine, wonderful for anybody out there listening to that. Just understand you are enough, get out there and do it, you're going to be good. Yeah, wonderful, I what a. I've run out of time so I could talk to you for another three hours. I just, I have absolutely adored this. Where can we find you if we're looking for you and we want to work with you?
Consistent Content Strategy for Sales Success
Speaker 3well, you can find me on linkedin. That's where I hang out the most. I don't hang out on any other social platform, just linkedin, so you can find me there. Simon hairs, you can also find my page, serial trainer 7 on linkedin and the website, of course, serial trainer 7.com, and all my contact details and emails are there. I post every day on linkedin, so you know there's always something up there that's been scheduled in some way, shape or form, or I might have a random thought and go, yes, that taylor swift lyric works.
Speaker 2Well, I'll do that, which is what I did today absolutely you're gonna have to promise me you're gonna come back again sometime and do this again. Love to thank you for having me. It's been amazing, it's been absolute joy. So thank you so much pleasure, thank you, chris.
Speaker 1thank you for visiting the Extremely Successful Sales Club. If you would like more information regarding our training events for salespeople and their managers, would like Chris Murray to work with your team directly or speak at your next conference, then please get in touch by visiting us at SuccessfulSales Club, where you will also find the archive of all previous podcast episodes and many more freely available resources. Until next time and to your success.